<< <i>Once the buyer got told the coin was gone (and not told it would be attempted to be reacquired), then how long should he have waited to place the negative? Granted, he COULD have waited, but he was already told he had won and the coin was not going to be his....so, how long should he have waited? >>
I don't know. 5 1/2 hours (most people go to bed when it gets late and don't stay up 24 hours a day, you know) seems pretty quick though, does it not? What's the risk of waiting a bit, and seeing if you can work something out, anyway? It's not like there's a 24 hour limit on leaving feedback.
Again, for about the 12th time- where's the hurry?
edited to add...
<< <i>The place I would fault the buyer is being too smart for his own good and showing it....when he emailed the seller and said "I know you are losing money on it and that isn't a valid reason to not sell it". That shouldn't have been mentioned at all... >>
Especially not in the feedback he left, as the seller never made that claim. >>
The buyer just made a crazy assumption that it was because the ending price was not good enough. I know what some will say about it though. They will say that there are sellers that do that and this guy is no different. You know the saying, "One bad apple...".
This is just another form of road rage. A simple mistake that got out of hand with emotions. I hope both sides will be able to work it out after they calm down.
<< <i>My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the OP, upon discovering the technical error, should not have filed an eBay cancellation, but should have done what was necessary to re-acquire the coin and complete the eBay transaction. Any loss associated with that would have been the price of learning a hard lesson about the phone app.
The buyer was quick to leave a neg, but the OP could have probably negotiated a retraction had he kept his cool and explained that he was in the process of rectifying the situation after the initial misstep. >>
Auction sales can fall through for various reasons. I have had Teletrade, Stack's, Christies on occasion do this. "Sorry, you aren't getting the item" is about all the comfort you get. They are not going to reacquire a coin "for whatever it takes" to complete a transaction.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>"To be fair, I don't think he ever mentioned a pre-agreement"
Which is exactly the point of why I posed question number 2a. Why the big rush to trade the 3 cent piece? >>
According to the OP, because it was a dupe and he no longer wanted it. Why shouldn't he move it out ASAP? >>
Maybe because he had an ethical responsibility to the eBay buyer first. which in my opinion trumps the convenience of unloading a dupe and preventing a loss simultaneously. >>
The guy made a mistake and apologized for it. A reasonable person would have been a little more understanding. Of course, I am sure you never make mistakes.
Wecome to the forums and please continue to participate. Negs can be be retracted and hopefully this situation can be resolved to everyones satisfaction.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>This is just another form of road rage. A simple mistake that got out of hand with emotions. I hope both sides will be able to work it out after they calm down. >>
Well, you folks sure enjoy hearty conversation. I never knew this existed.
To be clear about something me and the buyer never spoke on the phone. If we had, probably wouldnt have ended this way. His only error was being hasty but truth be told, I have a similar attitude, which I shall try to adjust since I see the other side.
I was also impressed that he knew what I bought the coin for, I do the exact same thing.
IMHO the seller screwed up royally. I wonder why, upon learning the coin in question had sold, he didn't un-swap the coin and complete the sale? While I understand his frustration at getting a negative, he deserved it for reneging on the sale.
note to serene dude>>>>i did unswap the coin at a lunch the following day. got back to the office and found the neg and got angry. the auction had ended around 10pm the previous night. it was my fault to not communicate properly with the buyer but he had already made his assumptions.
as a follow up note, i had told myself that i would not complete this transaction without an apology from the buyer but have decided to invoice him and agree to complete the transaction without any apology or commitment to modify feedback. If he chooses not to complete, i will not neg. him or make any complaint. I can move on knowing that in spite of messing up my first transaction in 10+ years on e-bay i have attempted to do the right thing. he did not get some special, amazing deal here. the fact that i bought the coin for more is indicative of a poor purchase, not a poor sale. this coin was opened for 399.99 and lowered to 349.99 to attract bids which it did not do until within the last 2 minutes.
<< <i>My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the OP, upon discovering the technical error, should not have filed an eBay cancellation, but should have done what was necessary to re-acquire the coin and complete the eBay transaction. Any loss associated with that would have been the price of learning a hard lesson about the phone app.
The buyer was quick to leave a neg, but the OP could have probably negotiated a retraction had he kept his cool and explained that he was in the process of rectifying the situation after the initial misstep. >>
Auction sales can fall through for various reasons. I have had Teletrade, Stack's, Christies on occasion do this. "Sorry, you aren't getting the item" is about all the comfort you get. They are not going to reacquire a coin "for whatever it takes" to complete a transaction. >>
I wouldn't expect an auction company to do that. Then again, you don't get to trash them for it by leaving public feedback. That aside, what I wrote is what I would have done had I been in the seller's position.
I commend you for stopping by, telling your side of the story ... and I hope you'll hang around, although the "pile on" might be too much to make you want to.
I read up on the associated drama ... a buyer who is quick to judge, quick to anger ... a seller who made what I see as an honest mistake, and then tried to rectify a bad situation ... and a whole bunch of forum ethics and morals flunkies that HAVE to be heard, over and over and over again.
Coin collecting is supposed to be fun ... it is for me. Years ago, eBay was fun too.
Collecting still can be fun, but eBay is a business where the buyer is king, and many of these "kings" live in glass houses and sit on very little thrones. The sad thing is, they are quick to throw stones. More over, this board, and others, give them the occassional platform to scream and whine like the little brats they probably are.
I wish you all the best.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
I know what the seller means about using the ebay app. I have sold coins before on ebay and watching the final minutes on my phone the coins sold for way less than I thought they would, but then I hit the refresh button and the prices had jumped up significantly.
Lots of people seam to think that the seller made an honest mistake and that's fine but it is still an honest mistake that still warrants a neg left the sec the seller said no to the sale. Just as I would neg/fill a ebay compliant the sec a buyer said no to paying for an auction they had won. I deal in contracts all day at work and I don't care why something goes wrong, I only care that someone is in breach (which always has some innocent or sob story attached). These people came up with a contract through a 3rd party and one person backed out...story over...case closed. I will not beg or lose sleep over it but I will use what ever punitive recourse that is available to let the person know that not covering your bases or just good old fashion stupidity has consequences. It's just a Ebay rating who really cares and for the ones who say "that affects my final fees" well it would seam that there is added incentive not to back out on your buyers and be stupid. And that after public ridicule the seller is extending an olive branch means nothing either, I see it all the time when people have their bluffs called and they hope the other person will go back to the original deal which doesn't look so bad after the wrist slap. Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong.
<< <i>Lots of people seam to think that the seller made an honest mistake and that's fine but it is still an honest mistake that still warrants a neg left the sec the seller said no to the sale. Just as I would neg/fill a ebay compliant the sec a buyer said no to paying for an auction they had won. I deal in contracts all day at work and I don't care why something goes wrong, I only care that someone is in breach (which always has some innocent or sob story attached). These people came up with a contract through a 3rd party and one person backed out...story over...case closed. I will not beg or lose sleep over it but I will use what ever punitive recourse that is available to let the person know that not covering your bases or just good old fashion stupidity has consequences. It's just a Ebay rating who really cares and for the ones who say "that affects my final fees" well it would seam that there is added incentive not to back out on your buyers and be stupid. And that after public ridicule the seller is extending an olive branch means nothing either, I see it all the time when people have their bluffs called and they hope the other person will go back to the original deal which doesn't look so bad after the wrist slap. Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong. >>
You make a lot of assumptions, not the least of which is that the seller caved in due to public ridicule when it is just as likely that the seller did not know of the public ridicule until well after the fact.
Nonetheless, I am also surprised that you would assume "one of our own" is always right when he gets into similar scraps on a fairly regular basis. I guess maybe he is just and fair and just has bad luck with ebay transactions, but I think over time, people make their own luck.
I as well think the OP is a stand-up person. He has nothing to gain here by even posting. The OP is not a dealer or even a frequent seller based on 10 years and under 300 feedback. My observations though as the OP has stated is he is in the wrong here by not completing the transaction to began with. The mistake was made and in this case the OP seems willing to complete the transaction. I do believe the OP made an error and it was not by intent. I would buy from the OP without any concern.
I have read of the buyers multiple drama and issues with some other buyers and sellers on ebay I have no doubt he acted in a harsh manner, at least in my opinion. I would suggest if the buyer wants this coin to simply remove the negative and complete the transaction. Step up and resolve this issue a mistake was made and an offer to make it right has been made from what I read in the OP's post.
<< <i>Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong. >>
But it's not bad business to leave negative feedback for a seller at 9AM after the auction closed at 7PM the previous evening? I'm wondering how anyone would be able to resolve a problem in such a short time frame, especially with a buyer so intent on leaving negative feedback that he makes up his own reason (and posts in the feedback he left, BTW) as to why the problem arose in the first place.
"if the buyer wants this coin to simply remove the negative and complete the transaction"
If i were the buyer and if i still wanted the coin i would remove the neg on receipt of the coin and not before.Feedback revision is a one time gig , an unscrupulous seller could tell me to go pound sand once its revised.The transaction is not complete until the buyer has the coin anyway.
<< <i>Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong. >>
But it's not bad business to leave negative feedback for a seller at 9AM after the auction closed at 7PM the previous evening? I'm wondering how anyone would be able to resolve a problem in such a short time frame, especially with a buyer so intent on leaving negative feedback that he makes up his own reason (and posts in the feedback he left, BTW) as to why the problem arose in the first place. >>
You were asked repeatedly when is it appropriete to leave feedback then and failed to answer even once. There was no problem to resolve , the buyer was told he will not be getting the coin at that point in time , should he wait until the other auctions a seller may have going to end before leaving the neg , is that what you are saying ?
<< <i>You were asked repeatedly when is it appropriete to leave feedback.. >>
No, I wasn't.
<< <i>... and failed to answer even once. >>
I have said at least a half a dozen times that there is no reason to rush to leave feedback. You have something like 90 days. You want an answer? 31 days, 12 hours, 13 minutes and 47 seconds. That's when. Satisfied now? Of course you're not.
<< <i> There was no problem to resolve , >>
Obviously, you haven't been paying attention. If there was no problem to resolve, what's up with the seller coming here and offering to do just that?
<< <i>the buyer was told he will not be getting the coin at that point in time , should he wait until the other auctions a seller may have going to end before leaving the neg , is that what you are saying ? >>
You just go right ahead and make something up and say that's what I'm saying. I mean, since you already know how, and all...
<< <i>Auction ended: Oct-19-11 19:24 Neg left: Oct-20-11 08:59 By my calculation, that's about 13 1/2 hours. Maybe taking a bit of time to figure things out would have been more productive? >>
This is all I need to know about the transaction. The buyer is in the wrong. Russ, NCNE >>
The seller reneged on the sale and the buyer, although perhaps a bit too quick on the trigger, left a negative. Sellers who renege should almost always get a negative, IMO. They always seem to have an alibi ("already sold" seems to be extremely popular). So, Russ, when, in your opinion, is a negative justified?
<< <i>Lots of people seam to think that the seller made an honest mistake and that's fine but it is still an honest mistake that still warrants a neg left the sec the seller said no to the sale. Just as I would neg/fill a ebay compliant the sec a buyer said no to paying for an auction they had won. I deal in contracts all day at work and I don't care why something goes wrong, I only care that someone is in breach (which always has some innocent or sob story attached). These people came up with a contract through a 3rd party and one person backed out...story over...case closed. I will not beg or lose sleep over it but I will use what ever punitive recourse that is available to let the person know that not covering your bases or just good old fashion stupidity has consequences. It's just a Ebay rating who really cares and for the ones who say "that affects my final fees" well it would seam that there is added incentive not to back out on your buyers and be stupid. And that after public ridicule the seller is extending an olive branch means nothing either, I see it all the time when people have their bluffs called and they hope the other person will go back to the original deal which doesn't look so bad after the wrist slap. Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong. >>
"Random sleaze-bay seller"??
Look at his feedback. He doesn't have a 'sleazey' feedback rating.
You should be a little more astute in your personal assertions.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
<< <i>...lowered to 349.99 to attract bids which it did not do until within the last 2 minutes. >>
Unless I am reading it wrong, it looks like the 1st bid came in about an hour before closing. Though that may not matter if you already started watching it on the app that did not update bids. Good idea to always check My Ebay to confirm whether sold or not sold.
As far as "found the neg and got angry", I had a situation on Ebay a few years ago where a coin sold that I no longer had. Did not realize it at first. It had been consigned to someone who went to a show and when they returned they told me it had not sold by phone so I relisted it. When settling up in person noticed it was missing. Turned out it had sold with no way to recover it. Nothing big, maybe in the $30 to $50 range.
Told the Ebay buyer and offered to work out finding another. They wanted the one in the picture, as they should. Point is that I expected a negative right away and I deserved it, though they never left one. Left a positive for them noting it was a botched situation where I deserved a neg. This was before knowing if they would leave one. Taught me not to list if the item was not in my posession.
Looks like your situation may get worked out in the end which is commendable.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
<< <i>Lots of people seam to think that the seller made an honest mistake and that's fine but it is still an honest mistake that still warrants a neg left the sec the seller said no to the sale. Just as I would neg/fill a ebay compliant the sec a buyer said no to paying for an auction they had won. I deal in contracts all day at work and I don't care why something goes wrong, I only care that someone is in breach (which always has some innocent or sob story attached). These people came up with a contract through a 3rd party and one person backed out...story over...case closed. I will not beg or lose sleep over it but I will use what ever punitive recourse that is available to let the person know that not covering your bases or just good old fashion stupidity has consequences. It's just a Ebay rating who really cares and for the ones who say "that affects my final fees" well it would seam that there is added incentive not to back out on your buyers and be stupid. And that after public ridicule the seller is extending an olive branch means nothing either, I see it all the time when people have their bluffs called and they hope the other person will go back to the original deal which doesn't look so bad after the wrist slap. Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong. >>
"Random sleaze-bay seller"??
Look at his feedback. He doesn't have a 'sleazey' feedback rating.
You should be a little more astute in your personal assertions. >>
I didn't read "sleaze-bay" as an assessment of the seller but the eBay auction system in general. Of course, I could be totally worong!
I appreciate reading SPENDABUCKEYE's side of the story. I might have done the same thing in his situation.
I think I'd be very cautious in dealing with that buyer. In fact I doubt I'd ever give that buyer any control in any transaction I was involved in. Quick trigger finger.
<< <i>Lots of people seam to think that the seller made an honest mistake and that's fine but it is still an honest mistake that still warrants a neg left the sec the seller said no to the sale. Just as I would neg/fill a ebay compliant the sec a buyer said no to paying for an auction they had won. I deal in contracts all day at work and I don't care why something goes wrong, I only care that someone is in breach (which always has some innocent or sob story attached). These people came up with a contract through a 3rd party and one person backed out...story over...case closed. I will not beg or lose sleep over it but I will use what ever punitive recourse that is available to let the person know that not covering your bases or just good old fashion stupidity has consequences. It's just a Ebay rating who really cares and for the ones who say "that affects my final fees" well it would seam that there is added incentive not to back out on your buyers and be stupid. And that after public ridicule the seller is extending an olive branch means nothing either, I see it all the time when people have their bluffs called and they hope the other person will go back to the original deal which doesn't look so bad after the wrist slap. Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong. >>
You make a lot of assumptions, not the least of which is that the seller caved in due to public ridicule when it is just as likely that the seller did not know of the public ridicule until well after the fact.
Nonetheless, I am also surprised that you would assume "one of our own" is always right when he gets into similar scraps on a fairly regular basis. I guess maybe he is just and fair and just has bad luck with ebay transactions, but I think over time, people make their own luck. >>
I see your point but I wouldn't say I made assumption more I chose to take the forum members version of events as the one I base my irreverent opinion on. The sellers side is about the same anyway it just is form a righteous perspective with some of the more salacious parts smoothed over. I am also taking the event on its own merits, if the forum member like to find trouble that would be unfortunate but the seller deserves what he got for helping him find it.
My point wasn't so much as to defend the integrity of either person (they are most likely both averagely decent people) but to say that I disagree with the people who think that the buyer should have waited longer to neg or should have begged for the coin. I was simply stating that once someone show intent to default on an agreement you have the green light to lay into them.
<< <i>You were asked repeatedly when is it appropriete to leave feedback.. >>
No, I wasn't.
<< <i>... and failed to answer even once. >>
I have said at least a half a dozen times that there is no reason to rush to leave feedback. You have something like 90 days. You want an answer? 31 days, 12 hours, 13 minutes and 47 seconds. That's when. Satisfied now? Of course you're not.
<< <i> There was no problem to resolve , >>
Obviously, you haven't been paying attention. If there was no problem to resolve, what's up with the seller coming here and offering to do just that?
<< <i>the buyer was told he will not be getting the coin at that point in time , should he wait until the other auctions a seller may have going to end before leaving the neg , is that what you are saying ? >>
You just go right ahead and make something up and say that's what I'm saying. I mean, since you already know how, and all... >>
You must be a lot of fun at the track , you seem to unfailingly back the losing horse yet can still fumble a justification that make sense to you
<< <i>Auction ended: Oct-19-11 19:24 Neg left: Oct-20-11 08:59 By my calculation, that's about 13 1/2 hours. Maybe taking a bit of time to figure things out would have been more productive? >>
This is all I need to know about the transaction. The buyer is in the wrong. Russ, NCNE >>
The seller reneged on the sale and the buyer, although perhaps a bit too quick on the trigger, left a negative. Sellers who renege should almost always get a negative, IMO. They always seem to have an alibi ("already sold" seems to be extremely popular). So, Russ, when, in your opinion, is a negative justified? >>
There are many instances when a neg is justified. When a seller commits fraud by, for example, shipping a counterfeit, When a seller ships the wrong item and refuses to make it right. When a seller accepts payment and doesn't ship anything. When a seller accepts payment and then a week later contacts the buyer and says he can't go though with the deal. It is not justified when a seller immediately contacts the buyer with a plausible explanation of what happened, and is not justified less than 24 hours after the transaction. Negs should be reserved for bad sellers, not good sellers who make an honest mistake. At worst, this would be a neutral situation.
This buyer, and many of you, are too quick to automatically assume that every mistake is a deliberate attempt to do wrong. This is a sad way to live life.
The Buyer got a deal. The seller found a better deal and backed out of a legal contract.
That's what a neg is for. Buyer may have been a bit hasty (anger can cause that) but the seller got a better deal and saved himself a $150 loss. Seller could have gotten coin back and sent it to the buyer but chose not to.
<< <i>The Buyer got a deal. The seller found a better deal and backed out of a legal contract.
That's what a neg is for. Buyer may have been a bit hasty (anger can cause that) but the seller got a better deal and saved himself a $150 loss. Seller could have gotten coin back and sent it to the buyer but chose not to.
Neg - simple as that. >>
Try reading before posting. The seller made a trade with a buddy when he thought the coin had not sold. And the seller did get the coin back the very next day, but by then the buyer had negged him.
<< <i>Auction ended: Oct-19-11 19:24 Neg left: Oct-20-11 08:59 By my calculation, that's about 13 1/2 hours. Maybe taking a bit of time to figure things out would have been more productive? >>
This is all I need to know about the transaction. The buyer is in the wrong. Russ, NCNE >>
The seller reneged on the sale and the buyer, although perhaps a bit too quick on the trigger, left a negative. Sellers who renege should almost always get a negative, IMO. They always seem to have an alibi ("already sold" seems to be extremely popular). So, Russ, when, in your opinion, is a negative justified? >>
There are many instances when a neg is justified. When a seller commits fraud by, for example, shipping a counterfeit, When a seller ships the wrong item and refuses to make it right. When a seller accepts payment and doesn't ship anything. When a seller accepts payment and then a week later contacts the buyer and says he can't go though with the deal. It is not justified when a seller immediately contacts the buyer with a plausible explanation of what happened, and is not justified less than 24 hours after the transaction. Negs should be reserved for bad sellers, not good sellers who make an honest mistake. At worst, this would be a neutral situation.
This buyer, and many of you, are too quick to automatically assume that every mistake is a deliberate attempt to do wrong. This is a sad way to live life.
<< <i>Rule 3) Anyone attacking another poster or making disparaging personal remarks will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.
Crypto, you have called another forum member a "Sleaze"
You have called me far worse in this Public Forum .
I can not understand why you have not been banned when you constantly break rule number 3.
Grow up, please. >>
Was anybody talking to you? or did your unimpressive comprehension of the comment just hit a little to close to home? If you go back and brush up on your reading skills and revisit my post you will see that i didn't call him sleaze. But since you are bringing up the past aren't you the guy who threatened to sue a house wife for backing out of an ebay auction where you were afraid you weren't going to being able to rip her off for 5K plus? But now you think it is ok for a seller to back out if there is some odd ball reason? weird
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Once the buyer got told the coin was gone (and not told it would be attempted to be reacquired), then how long should he have waited to place the negative? Granted, he COULD have waited, but he was already told he had won and the coin was not going to be his....so, how long should he have waited? >>
I don't know. 5 1/2 hours (most people go to bed when it gets late and don't stay up 24 hours a day, you know) seems pretty quick though, does it not? What's the risk of waiting a bit, and seeing if you can work something out, anyway? It's not like there's a 24 hour limit on leaving feedback.
Again, for about the 12th time- where's the hurry?
edited to add...
<< <i>The place I would fault the buyer is being too smart for his own good and showing it....when he emailed the seller and said "I know you are losing money on it and that isn't a valid reason to not sell it". That shouldn't have been mentioned at all... >>
Especially not in the feedback he left, as the seller never made that claim. >>
The buyer just made a crazy assumption that it was because the ending price was not good enough. I know what some will say about it though. They will say that there are sellers that do that and this guy is no different. You know the saying, "One bad apple...".
Sell the coin to the buyer..."
Isn't that how this got started?
Eric
<< <i>I have a very simple solution for both of you.
Sell the coin to the buyer and the buyer removes the negative and you both win and move on and learn from the experience. >>
+100 +200!
Agree.
spendabuckeye
check to see if it is possible to change the feedback, then go through with the deal if it is
<< <i>My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the OP, upon discovering the technical error, should not have filed
an eBay cancellation, but should have done what was necessary to re-acquire the coin and complete the
eBay transaction. Any loss associated with that would have been the price of learning a hard lesson about
the phone app.
The buyer was quick to leave a neg, but the OP could have probably negotiated a retraction had he
kept his cool and explained that he was in the process of rectifying the situation after the initial
misstep. >>
Auction sales can fall through for various reasons. I have had Teletrade, Stack's, Christies on occasion
do this. "Sorry, you aren't getting the item" is about all the comfort you get. They are not going to
reacquire a coin "for whatever it takes" to complete a transaction.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"To be fair, I don't think he ever mentioned a pre-agreement"
Which is exactly the point of why I posed question number 2a. Why the big rush to trade the 3 cent piece? >>
According to the OP, because it was a dupe and he no longer wanted it. Why shouldn't he move it out ASAP? >>
Maybe because he had an ethical responsibility to the eBay buyer first. which in my opinion trumps the convenience of unloading a dupe and preventing a loss simultaneously. >>
The guy made a mistake and apologized for it. A reasonable person would have been a little more understanding. Of course, I am sure you never make mistakes.
in fact I had to go back for seconds after reading Bayard's OP.
Since I seldom sell on ebay due to the high costs associated with them. I won't block either person.
But if I did- I would block Bayard1908- a little quick to send a neg, and did not leave himself any room to negotiate with spendabuck.
Now I shall go after cup #3.
Welcome Spendabuckeye- try to enjoy this asylum for the lost and weary, many are knowledable and many are asses.
Coindunce is one that fits the mold of.....
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>This is just another form of road rage. A simple mistake that got out of hand with emotions. I hope both sides will be able to work it out after they calm down. >>
Currently Listed: Nothing
Take Care, Dave
To be clear about something me and the buyer never spoke on the phone. If we had, probably wouldnt have ended this way.
His only error was being hasty but truth be told, I have a similar attitude, which I shall try to adjust since I see the other side.
I was also impressed that he knew what I bought the coin for, I do the exact same thing.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
A little more communication on the sellers part might have avoided the situation, but like others have said, it can still be undone.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
I wonder why, upon learning the coin in question had sold, he didn't un-swap the coin and complete the sale?
While I understand his frustration at getting a negative, he deserved it for reneging on the sale.
as a follow up note, i had told myself that i would not complete this transaction without an apology from the buyer but have decided to invoice him and agree to complete the transaction without any apology or commitment to modify feedback. If he chooses not to complete, i will not neg. him or make any complaint. I can move on knowing that in spite of messing up my first transaction in 10+ years on e-bay i have attempted to do the right thing. he did not get some special, amazing deal here. the fact that i bought the coin for more is indicative of a poor purchase, not a poor sale. this coin was opened for 399.99 and lowered to 349.99 to attract bids which it did not do until within the last 2 minutes.
<< <i>If he chooses not to complete, i will not neg. him or make any complaint. >>
Not to worry- you couldn't leave negative feedback for him even if you wanted to.
<< <i>Coins are fun. People can take the fun out of them. >>
And business is business
<< <i>
<< <i>My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the OP, upon discovering the technical error, should not have filed
an eBay cancellation, but should have done what was necessary to re-acquire the coin and complete the
eBay transaction. Any loss associated with that would have been the price of learning a hard lesson about
the phone app.
The buyer was quick to leave a neg, but the OP could have probably negotiated a retraction had he
kept his cool and explained that he was in the process of rectifying the situation after the initial
misstep. >>
Auction sales can fall through for various reasons. I have had Teletrade, Stack's, Christies on occasion
do this. "Sorry, you aren't getting the item" is about all the comfort you get. They are not going to
reacquire a coin "for whatever it takes" to complete a transaction. >>
I wouldn't expect an auction company to do that. Then again, you don't get to trash them for it by
leaving public feedback. That aside, what I wrote is what I would have done had I been in the
seller's position.
I commend you for stopping by, telling your side of the story ... and I hope you'll hang around, although the "pile on" might be too much to make you want to.
I read up on the associated drama ... a buyer who is quick to judge, quick to anger ... a seller who made what I see as an honest mistake, and then tried to rectify a bad situation ... and a whole bunch of forum ethics and morals flunkies that HAVE to be heard, over and over and over again.
Coin collecting is supposed to be fun ... it is for me. Years ago, eBay was fun too.
Collecting still can be fun, but eBay is a business where the buyer is king, and many of these "kings" live in glass houses and sit on very little thrones. The sad thing is, they are quick to throw stones. More over, this board, and others, give them the occassional platform to scream and whine like the little brats they probably are.
I wish you all the best.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Now, after reading spendabuckeye's post, I would not hesitate to buy from him.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
The ethics police in this place can get very nutty. Ethics is very important in any Business, and it seems that you do have ethics.
Forget about the ethics police here, they are whiners.
As I have said before, You will BOTH WIN if you complete the sale and the Negative is REMOVED.
Sometimes the solution is so simple.......
Getting the Negative removed is super important for your business.
<< <i>
<< <i>Coins are fun. People can take the fun out of them. >>
And business is business >>
I'd agree with that, and coins can sure take the fun out of that, too
<< <i>Lots of people seam to think that the seller made an honest mistake and that's fine but it is still an honest mistake that still warrants a neg left the sec the seller said no to the sale. Just as I would neg/fill a ebay compliant the sec a buyer said no to paying for an auction they had won. I deal in contracts all day at work and I don't care why something goes wrong, I only care that someone is in breach (which always has some innocent or sob story attached). These people came up with a contract through a 3rd party and one person backed out...story over...case closed. I will not beg or lose sleep over it but I will use what ever punitive recourse that is available to let the person know that not covering your bases or just good old fashion stupidity has consequences. It's just a Ebay rating who really cares and for the ones who say "that affects my final fees" well it would seam that there is added incentive not to back out on your buyers and be stupid. And that after public ridicule the seller is extending an olive branch means nothing either, I see it all the time when people have their bluffs called and they hope the other person will go back to the original deal which doesn't look so bad after the wrist slap. Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong. >>
You make a lot of assumptions, not the least of which is that the seller caved in due to public ridicule when it is just as likely that the seller did not know of the public ridicule until well after the fact.
Nonetheless, I am also surprised that you would assume "one of our own" is always right when he gets into similar scraps on a fairly regular basis. I guess maybe he is just and fair and just has bad luck with ebay transactions, but I think over time, people make their own luck.
I have read of the buyers multiple drama and issues with some other buyers and sellers on ebay I have no doubt he acted in a harsh manner, at least in my opinion. I would suggest if the buyer wants this coin to simply remove the negative and complete the transaction. Step up and resolve this issue a mistake was made and an offer to make it right has been made from what I read in the OP's post.
<< <i>Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong. >>
But it's not bad business to leave negative feedback for a seller at 9AM after the auction closed at 7PM the previous evening? I'm wondering how anyone would be able to resolve a problem in such a short time frame, especially with a buyer so intent on leaving negative feedback that he makes up his own reason (and posts in the feedback he left, BTW) as to why the problem arose in the first place.
If i were the buyer and if i still wanted the coin i would remove the neg on receipt of the coin and not before.Feedback revision is a one time gig , an unscrupulous seller could tell me to go pound sand once its revised.The transaction is not complete until the buyer has the coin anyway.
<< <i>
<< <i>Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong. >>
But it's not bad business to leave negative feedback for a seller at 9AM after the auction closed at 7PM the previous evening? I'm wondering how anyone would be able to resolve a problem in such a short time frame, especially with a buyer so intent on leaving negative feedback that he makes up his own reason (and posts in the feedback he left, BTW) as to why the problem arose in the first place. >>
You were asked repeatedly when is it appropriete to leave feedback then and failed to answer even once. There was no problem to resolve , the buyer was told he will not be getting the coin at that point in time , should he wait until the other auctions a seller may have going to end before leaving the neg , is that what you are saying ?
<< <i>Auction ended: Oct-19-11 19:24
Neg left: Oct-20-11 08:59
By my calculation, that's about 13 1/2 hours. Maybe taking a bit of time to figure things out would have been more productive? >>
This is all I need to know about the transaction. The buyer is in the wrong.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>so ill leave it be. >>
Told you you wouldn't.
<< <i>You were asked repeatedly when is it appropriete to leave feedback.. >>
No, I wasn't.
<< <i>... and failed to answer even once. >>
I have said at least a half a dozen times that there is no reason to rush to leave feedback. You have something like 90 days. You want an answer? 31 days, 12 hours, 13 minutes and 47 seconds. That's when. Satisfied now? Of course you're not.
<< <i> There was no problem to resolve , >>
Obviously, you haven't been paying attention. If there was no problem to resolve, what's up with the seller coming here and offering to do just that?
<< <i>the buyer was told he will not be getting the coin at that point in time , should he wait until the other auctions a seller may have going to end before leaving the neg , is that what you are saying ? >>
You just go right ahead and make something up and say that's what I'm saying. I mean, since you already know how, and all...
<< <i>
<< <i>Auction ended: Oct-19-11 19:24
Neg left: Oct-20-11 08:59
By my calculation, that's about 13 1/2 hours. Maybe taking a bit of time to figure things out would have been more productive? >>
This is all I need to know about the transaction. The buyer is in the wrong.
Russ, NCNE >>
The seller reneged on the sale and the buyer, although perhaps a bit too quick on the trigger, left a negative.
Sellers who renege should almost always get a negative, IMO.
They always seem to have an alibi ("already sold" seems to be extremely popular).
So, Russ, when, in your opinion, is a negative justified?
<< <i>Lots of people seam to think that the seller made an honest mistake and that's fine but it is still an honest mistake that still warrants a neg left the sec the seller said no to the sale. Just as I would neg/fill a ebay compliant the sec a buyer said no to paying for an auction they had won. I deal in contracts all day at work and I don't care why something goes wrong, I only care that someone is in breach (which always has some innocent or sob story attached). These people came up with a contract through a 3rd party and one person backed out...story over...case closed. I will not beg or lose sleep over it but I will use what ever punitive recourse that is available to let the person know that not covering your bases or just good old fashion stupidity has consequences. It's just a Ebay rating who really cares and for the ones who say "that affects my final fees" well it would seam that there is added incentive not to back out on your buyers and be stupid. And that after public ridicule the seller is extending an olive branch means nothing either, I see it all the time when people have their bluffs called and they hope the other person will go back to the original deal which doesn't look so bad after the wrist slap. Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong. >>
"Random sleaze-bay seller"??
Look at his feedback. He doesn't have a 'sleazey' feedback rating.
You should be a little more astute in your personal assertions.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
spendabuckeye wrote:
<< <i>...lowered to 349.99 to attract bids which it did not do until within the last 2 minutes. >>
Unless I am reading it wrong, it looks like the 1st bid came in about an hour before closing. Though that may not matter if you already started watching it on the app that did not update bids. Good idea to always check My Ebay to confirm whether sold or not sold.
As far as "found the neg and got angry", I had a situation on Ebay a few years ago where a coin sold that I no longer had. Did not realize it at first. It had been consigned to someone who went to a show and when they returned they told me it had not sold by phone so I relisted it. When settling up in person noticed it was missing. Turned out it had sold with no way to recover it. Nothing big, maybe in the $30 to $50 range.
Told the Ebay buyer and offered to work out finding another. They wanted the one in the picture, as they should. Point is that I expected a negative right away and I deserved it, though they never left one. Left a positive for them noting it was a botched situation where I deserved a neg. This was before knowing if they would leave one. Taught me not to list if the item was not in my posession.
Looks like your situation may get worked out in the end which is commendable.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
<< <i>
<< <i>Lots of people seam to think that the seller made an honest mistake and that's fine but it is still an honest mistake that still warrants a neg left the sec the seller said no to the sale. Just as I would neg/fill a ebay compliant the sec a buyer said no to paying for an auction they had won. I deal in contracts all day at work and I don't care why something goes wrong, I only care that someone is in breach (which always has some innocent or sob story attached). These people came up with a contract through a 3rd party and one person backed out...story over...case closed. I will not beg or lose sleep over it but I will use what ever punitive recourse that is available to let the person know that not covering your bases or just good old fashion stupidity has consequences. It's just a Ebay rating who really cares and for the ones who say "that affects my final fees" well it would seam that there is added incentive not to back out on your buyers and be stupid. And that after public ridicule the seller is extending an olive branch means nothing either, I see it all the time when people have their bluffs called and they hope the other person will go back to the original deal which doesn't look so bad after the wrist slap. Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong. >>
"Random sleaze-bay seller"??
Look at his feedback. He doesn't have a 'sleazey' feedback rating.
You should be a little more astute in your personal assertions. >>
I didn't read "sleaze-bay" as an assessment of the seller but the eBay auction system in general. Of course, I could be totally worong!
I think I'd be very cautious in dealing with that buyer. In fact I doubt I'd ever give that buyer any control in any transaction I was involved in. Quick trigger finger.
The joys of Ebay. Continued....
<< <i>
<< <i>Lots of people seam to think that the seller made an honest mistake and that's fine but it is still an honest mistake that still warrants a neg left the sec the seller said no to the sale. Just as I would neg/fill a ebay compliant the sec a buyer said no to paying for an auction they had won. I deal in contracts all day at work and I don't care why something goes wrong, I only care that someone is in breach (which always has some innocent or sob story attached). These people came up with a contract through a 3rd party and one person backed out...story over...case closed. I will not beg or lose sleep over it but I will use what ever punitive recourse that is available to let the person know that not covering your bases or just good old fashion stupidity has consequences. It's just a Ebay rating who really cares and for the ones who say "that affects my final fees" well it would seam that there is added incentive not to back out on your buyers and be stupid. And that after public ridicule the seller is extending an olive branch means nothing either, I see it all the time when people have their bluffs called and they hope the other person will go back to the original deal which doesn't look so bad after the wrist slap. Seller is a tool and that is assuming he isn't just full of it to begin with. Hes actions follow bad business 101 human nature and I am surprised that the board would pile on one of our own for a random sleaze-bay seller who is wrong. >>
You make a lot of assumptions, not the least of which is that the seller caved in due to public ridicule when it is just as likely that the seller did not know of the public ridicule until well after the fact.
Nonetheless, I am also surprised that you would assume "one of our own" is always right when he gets into similar scraps on a fairly regular basis. I guess maybe he is just and fair and just has bad luck with ebay transactions, but I think over time, people make their own luck.
I see your point but I wouldn't say I made assumption more I chose to take the forum members version of events as the one I base my irreverent opinion on. The sellers side is about the same anyway it just is form a righteous perspective with some of the more salacious parts smoothed over. I am also taking the event on its own merits, if the forum member like to find trouble that would be unfortunate but the seller deserves what he got for helping him find it.
My point wasn't so much as to defend the integrity of either person (they are most likely both averagely decent people) but to say that I disagree with the people who think that the buyer should have waited longer to neg or should have begged for the coin. I was simply stating that once someone show intent to default on an agreement you have the green light to lay into them.
<< <i>
<< <i>so ill leave it be. >>
Told you you wouldn't.
<< <i>You were asked repeatedly when is it appropriete to leave feedback.. >>
No, I wasn't.
<< <i>... and failed to answer even once. >>
I have said at least a half a dozen times that there is no reason to rush to leave feedback. You have something like 90 days. You want an answer? 31 days, 12 hours, 13 minutes and 47 seconds. That's when. Satisfied now? Of course you're not.
<< <i> There was no problem to resolve , >>
Obviously, you haven't been paying attention. If there was no problem to resolve, what's up with the seller coming here and offering to do just that?
<< <i>the buyer was told he will not be getting the coin at that point in time , should he wait until the other auctions a seller may have going to end before leaving the neg , is that what you are saying ? >>
You just go right ahead and make something up and say that's what I'm saying. I mean, since you already know how, and all...
You must be a lot of fun at the track , you seem to unfailingly back the losing horse yet can still fumble a justification that make sense to you
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Auction ended: Oct-19-11 19:24
Neg left: Oct-20-11 08:59
By my calculation, that's about 13 1/2 hours. Maybe taking a bit of time to figure things out would have been more productive? >>
This is all I need to know about the transaction. The buyer is in the wrong.
Russ, NCNE >>
The seller reneged on the sale and the buyer, although perhaps a bit too quick on the trigger, left a negative.
Sellers who renege should almost always get a negative, IMO.
They always seem to have an alibi ("already sold" seems to be extremely popular).
So, Russ, when, in your opinion, is a negative justified?
There are many instances when a neg is justified. When a seller commits fraud by, for example, shipping a counterfeit, When a seller ships the wrong item and refuses to make it right. When a seller accepts payment and doesn't ship anything. When a seller accepts payment and then a week later contacts the buyer and says he can't go though with the deal. It is not justified when a seller immediately contacts the buyer with a plausible explanation of what happened, and is not justified less than 24 hours after the transaction. Negs should be reserved for bad sellers, not good sellers who make an honest mistake. At worst, this would be a neutral situation.
This buyer, and many of you, are too quick to automatically assume that every mistake is a deliberate attempt to do wrong. This is a sad way to live life.
Russ, NCNE
Crypto, you have called another forum member a "Sleaze"
You have called me far worse in this Public Forum .
I can not understand why you have not been banned when you constantly break rule number 3.
Grow up, please.
That's what a neg is for. Buyer may have been a bit hasty (anger can cause that) but the seller got a better deal and saved himself a $150 loss. Seller could have gotten coin back and sent it to the buyer but chose not to.
Neg - simple as that.
<< <i>The Buyer got a deal. The seller found a better deal and backed out of a legal contract.
That's what a neg is for. Buyer may have been a bit hasty (anger can cause that) but the seller got a better deal and saved himself a $150 loss. Seller could have gotten coin back and sent it to the buyer but chose not to.
Neg - simple as that. >>
Try reading before posting. The seller made a trade with a buddy when he thought the coin had not sold. And the seller did get the coin back the very next day, but by then the buyer had negged him.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Auction ended: Oct-19-11 19:24
Neg left: Oct-20-11 08:59
By my calculation, that's about 13 1/2 hours. Maybe taking a bit of time to figure things out would have been more productive? >>
This is all I need to know about the transaction. The buyer is in the wrong.
Russ, NCNE >>
The seller reneged on the sale and the buyer, although perhaps a bit too quick on the trigger, left a negative.
Sellers who renege should almost always get a negative, IMO.
They always seem to have an alibi ("already sold" seems to be extremely popular).
So, Russ, when, in your opinion, is a negative justified?
There are many instances when a neg is justified. When a seller commits fraud by, for example, shipping a counterfeit, When a seller ships the wrong item and refuses to make it right. When a seller accepts payment and doesn't ship anything. When a seller accepts payment and then a week later contacts the buyer and says he can't go though with the deal. It is not justified when a seller immediately contacts the buyer with a plausible explanation of what happened, and is not justified less than 24 hours after the transaction. Negs should be reserved for bad sellers, not good sellers who make an honest mistake. At worst, this would be a neutral situation.
This buyer, and many of you, are too quick to automatically assume that every mistake is a deliberate attempt to do wrong. This is a sad way to live life.
Russ, NCNE >>
Again the voice of reason.
<< <i>Rule 3) Anyone attacking another poster or making disparaging personal remarks will no longer be allowed to post. No more warnings.
Crypto, you have called another forum member a "Sleaze"
You have called me far worse in this Public Forum .
I can not understand why you have not been banned when you constantly break rule number 3.
Grow up, please. >>
Was anybody talking to you? or did your unimpressive comprehension of the comment just hit a little to close to home? If you go back and brush up on your reading skills and revisit my post you will see that i didn't call him sleaze. But since you are bringing up the past aren't you the guy who threatened to sue a house wife for backing out of an ebay auction where you were afraid you weren't going to being able to rip her off for 5K plus? But now you think it is ok for a seller to back out if there is some odd ball reason? weird
In fact if I recall you bragged about just the other day
After that he got a neg. Not a complex situation.
If I were that seller I would expect a neg.
<< <i>3c pieces, proof or business strikes, are just not that interesting. >>
Almost 100 posts indicate this particlar one is.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
<< <i>
<< <i>3c pieces, proof or business strikes, are just not that interesting. >>
Almost 100 posts indicate this particlar one is.
The situation is interesting, not the coin.
Russ, NCNE
I think this is similar to a "oops sold it and forgot or didn't realize it was sold" situation.
clearly the seller is at fault here for the reneg.
the whole situation could still be resolved positively, though. I vote go that way.
I hope you stick around.
I usually don't post from my Android due to screwups but today is an Exchange
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso