I am the bad e-bay seller re:1869 3c Nickel
spendabuckeye
Posts: 15
I have come here to take the heat and offer explanation for the transaction many have read about and commented on from Bayard1908. First off I would like to thank "manofcoins" for bringing this site to my attention and letting me know how to post. Before sharing details of this transaction i would like to mention that i have been on e-bay for over 10 years and, until this transaction, had a perfect feedback rating of 267. I would hope to get the benefit of the doubt about how seriously i take the responsibility of internet commerce by having had that record. Those of you who have similar records know what it takes to do that.
Now lets get to the salacious details that many of you have enjoyed hammering me on.
I had two auctions ending on Wednesday evening at about 10:00pm eastern. I was visiting at the home of a coin-collecting colleague and was watching my auctions using the e-bay app on my android phone. It was showing the countdown in real time, both minutes and seconds. As the time was counting down, including at the end, it showed zero bids at conclusion. I would later find out that even though the time is counting down, you need to refresh to see bids/amounts. Believing that neither coin sold, i traded the 3c Nickel for an ngc pr indian cent. When my e-mail on my phone refreshed, after having left my friends, it indicated that one of my coins had bids and sold. I then e-mailed the buyer and asked if he objected to a recission.
I was quick about this so he wouldn't pay first as that may have worsened this situation. His response was to ask why and then indicated that a selling price below my cost at Heritage was not a valid reason. I shared the reason and filed a cancellation request thru e-bay. When i awoke in the morning i read that he had denied it which was understandable but troublesome. I shared my problem with the colleague who i had made the trade with and he agreed to meet me for lunch at olive garden (and made me buy) to undo our trade. I then attended a meeting and returned to my office. My intent was to contact the buyer and follow thru. When i saw the negative feedback, I went wild and continued to get even angrier when i received e-bay emails from people who presumably had read his post on this forum. My anger was such that i decided to close my e-bay account. to do that i needed to 1) end the 1 day relist of my lib seated proof quarter that had no bids 2) withdraw a non-leading bid on a proof walker 3) pay my ebay fees mostly from the pr 3c nickel. then they said i needed to wait 30 days.
There were many other possible outcomes for this transaction and while I contributed to the problem, the buyer was, in my opinion, hasty with a negative especially to someone who never had one before (i am not the first person he has given their first negative to). I would have happily given him the e-bay fees from a cancelled sale. that was about $30 and would have represented a 10% return without ever having paid the money. As to the issue of me being upset about a $125 loss on a coin i can only say that the amount is immaterial in my situation. I do not do this for a living. I expect that certain pieces will lose and truth be told, the e-bay fees which are 10% chaps me worse than a coin loss. I am a collector and i sell when i acquire a better piece. the 3c nickel was being replaced by an ultra cam item from the pittsburgh heritage auction.
I created the problem and i am living with the negative on e-bay. I have not even tried to explain it away. the punishment is what it is. It is disappointing to read some of the things i read without people having all the facts but i am prepared to move on as i handled myself properly for 10 years.
Please feel free to continue hammering me if you must. Should you leave me a message here and i do not respond, it may be because i do not return so i apologize now.
Now lets get to the salacious details that many of you have enjoyed hammering me on.
I had two auctions ending on Wednesday evening at about 10:00pm eastern. I was visiting at the home of a coin-collecting colleague and was watching my auctions using the e-bay app on my android phone. It was showing the countdown in real time, both minutes and seconds. As the time was counting down, including at the end, it showed zero bids at conclusion. I would later find out that even though the time is counting down, you need to refresh to see bids/amounts. Believing that neither coin sold, i traded the 3c Nickel for an ngc pr indian cent. When my e-mail on my phone refreshed, after having left my friends, it indicated that one of my coins had bids and sold. I then e-mailed the buyer and asked if he objected to a recission.
I was quick about this so he wouldn't pay first as that may have worsened this situation. His response was to ask why and then indicated that a selling price below my cost at Heritage was not a valid reason. I shared the reason and filed a cancellation request thru e-bay. When i awoke in the morning i read that he had denied it which was understandable but troublesome. I shared my problem with the colleague who i had made the trade with and he agreed to meet me for lunch at olive garden (and made me buy) to undo our trade. I then attended a meeting and returned to my office. My intent was to contact the buyer and follow thru. When i saw the negative feedback, I went wild and continued to get even angrier when i received e-bay emails from people who presumably had read his post on this forum. My anger was such that i decided to close my e-bay account. to do that i needed to 1) end the 1 day relist of my lib seated proof quarter that had no bids 2) withdraw a non-leading bid on a proof walker 3) pay my ebay fees mostly from the pr 3c nickel. then they said i needed to wait 30 days.
There were many other possible outcomes for this transaction and while I contributed to the problem, the buyer was, in my opinion, hasty with a negative especially to someone who never had one before (i am not the first person he has given their first negative to). I would have happily given him the e-bay fees from a cancelled sale. that was about $30 and would have represented a 10% return without ever having paid the money. As to the issue of me being upset about a $125 loss on a coin i can only say that the amount is immaterial in my situation. I do not do this for a living. I expect that certain pieces will lose and truth be told, the e-bay fees which are 10% chaps me worse than a coin loss. I am a collector and i sell when i acquire a better piece. the 3c nickel was being replaced by an ultra cam item from the pittsburgh heritage auction.
I created the problem and i am living with the negative on e-bay. I have not even tried to explain it away. the punishment is what it is. It is disappointing to read some of the things i read without people having all the facts but i am prepared to move on as i handled myself properly for 10 years.
Please feel free to continue hammering me if you must. Should you leave me a message here and i do not respond, it may be because i do not return so i apologize now.
jeff
0
Comments
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
<< <i>There were many other possible outcomes for this transaction and while I contributed to the problem, the buyer was, in my opinion, hasty with a negative especially to someone who never had one before (i am not the first person he has given their first negative to). >>
This is something I've never understood. There is plenty of time to leave feedback. Why not wait until things have either sorted themselves out or an impasse is reached?
Unfortunately, on today's eBay, the first thing most people seem to assume is that they're being cheated somehow.
By the way, you earn points in my book for stepping and telling your side of the events.
Just go to Profile in the upper right corner and check the "turn private messages on" button.
(edited for direction and spelling)
2) If you had a prior agreement to trade the 3 cent nickel for another coin on a contingency, why would you not state that fact in your auction listing? Furthermore, why the big rush to trade the 3 cent piece ?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>1) How could you be an active member of eBay for over 10 years, and not be aware that it is necessary to refresh your browser to see the real time bid on an auction format listing?
2) If you had a prior agreement to trade the 3 cent nickel for another coin on a contingency, why would you not state that fact in your auction listing? Furthermore, why the big rush to trade the 3 cent piece ? >>
To be fair, I don't think he ever mentioned a pre-agreement.
Also, I've been on Ebay for about 7 or 8 years, and I got an Android phone about 8 months ago. Took me a bit to realize how the Ebay app worked when it came to all aspects of Ebay.
<< <i>1) How could you be an active member of eBay for over 10 years, and not be aware that it is necessary to refresh your browser to see the real time bid on an auction format listing? ... >>
I am an eBay user of 13+ years and do not know all of the rules, quirks, conditions, etc. either.
It's a strange story. If receiving a neg from Bayard is the worst thing that ever happens in your numismatic life, you are ahead of the curve.
Which is exactly the point of why I posed question number 2a. Why the big rush to trade the 3 cent piece? Could it be that the OP expected to prevent a loss by obtaining the Proof Indian Cent? The appearance is given that the OP gave more consideration to the trade participant than to a prior customer - the eBay buyer.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Neg left: Oct-20-11 08:59
By my calculation, that's about 13 1/2 hours. Maybe taking a bit of time to figure things out would have been more productive?
<< <i>"To be fair, I don't think he ever mentioned a pre-agreement"
Which is exactly the point of why I posed question number 2a. Why the big rush to trade the 3 cent piece? >>
According to the OP, because it was a dupe and he no longer wanted it. Why shouldn't he move it out ASAP?
<< <i>
<< <i>"To be fair, I don't think he ever mentioned a pre-agreement"
Which is exactly the point of why I posed question number 2a. Why the big rush to trade the 3 cent piece? >>
According to the OP, because it was a dupe and he no longer wanted it. Why shouldn't he move it out ASAP? >>
Maybe because he had an ethical responsibility to the eBay buyer first. which in my opinion trumps the convenience of unloading a dupe and preventing a loss simultaneously.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
You win some, and.......................
<< <i>Auction ended: Oct-19-11 19:24
Neg left: Oct-20-11 08:59
By my calculation, that's about 13 1/2 hours. Maybe taking a bit of time to figure things out would have been more productive? >>
Why ? There was nothing to figure out , the buyer won an auction fair and square , the seller declined to honor the auction and was rightfully negged , the seller has said he has moved on , thats how it works.
Thanks for sharing your side of the story. As usual, it often sheds light where darkness prevails. As you will find, some are quick to neg and peg an ebay seller. Especially to immediately air a one-sided issue on a coin forum appears somewhat hasty, but then that is each of our choices to make.
I totally understand your error and also if I thought an item had not sold from my auction and someone offered me a price that I felt acceptable--that again would be my business, unfortunately, due to your error it became everyone's. Hopefully, you will turn on your pm and work it out privately with your buyer, as previously mentioned. Life is too short and it would be a shame to limit your enjoyment of the hobby due to one instance of error.
Best of luck to you both.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
<< <i>Why ? >>
Well, I assumed the bidder was interested in actually getting the coin. Leaving a neg was more important. I stand corrected.
also consider an iphone. the ebay app updates the time remaining and the current high bid in real time
<< <i>
<< <i>Why ? >>
Well, I assumed the bidder was interested in actually getting the coin. Leaving a neg was more important. I stand corrected. >>
At some point, isn't it (more important)?
You go somewhere you get bad service. Do you stick around and beg for good service or walk out and tell all of your friends how poor the service was?
<< <i>
<< <i>Why ? >>
Well, I assumed the bidder was interested in actually getting the coin. Leaving a neg was more important. I stand corrected. >>
He was told immediately he would not be getting the coin , i believe that was the whole point. Should Banyard maybe have pleaded and whinged for the coin or just do the needful and move on ?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"To be fair, I don't think he ever mentioned a pre-agreement"
Which is exactly the point of why I posed question number 2a. Why the big rush to trade the 3 cent piece? >>
According to the OP, because it was a dupe and he no longer wanted it. Why shouldn't he move it out ASAP? >>
Maybe because he had an ethical responsibility to the eBay buyer first. which in my opinion trumps the convenience of unloading a dupe and preventing a loss simultaneously. >>
The OP has stated he thought the auction had ended with no bids, so he believed his obligation to the Ebay bidding community had ended. It sounds like you do not believe his version of events though, so little point in continuing the discussion.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"To be fair, I don't think he ever mentioned a pre-agreement"
Which is exactly the point of why I posed question number 2a. Why the big rush to trade the 3 cent piece? >>
According to the OP, because it was a dupe and he no longer wanted it. Why shouldn't he move it out ASAP? >>
Maybe because he had an ethical responsibility to the eBay buyer first. which in my opinion trumps the convenience of unloading a dupe and preventing a loss simultaneously. >>
The OP has stated he thought the auction had ended with no bids, so he believed his obligation to the Ebay bidding community had ended. It sounds like you do not believe his version of events though, so little point in continuing the discussion. >>
Actually, you missed the chronology of the OP's account, in which he stated that he contacted the eBay buyer shortly after having discovered his inability to properly use his Android phone and also AFTER having hurriedly traded his coin, yet he simply reported having asked the eBay buyer for release from his contract WITHOUT having mentioned that he had already disposed of the coin. This lends the appearance of being covertly deceptive. Simple concept for me to understand.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>Welcome to the forum and thanks for telling your side of the story. Perhaps this will help people to not rush to judgment so quickly. I hope this will all work out well for both of you. >>
Welcome to the forums spendabuckeye.
Coinduce, How big a dog do you have in this fight???????????????????????????????????????
<< <i>He was told immediately he would not be getting the coin , i believe that was the whole point. >>
Subsequent postings seem to indicate that that may not have been the end of the story, after all. I mean- leaving a neg 13 1/2 hours after the auction ended, of which 8 or so were hours that most people are asleep? Once again, where's the hurry to leave feedback?
Although it may or may not be relevant, a forum search using the buyer's posting id and "feedback" results in a list of threads that seems to indicate the buyer has had quite a number of problems with eBay transactions- more than most people, I'd think.
Just sayin...
<< <i>For the record , id have negged the seller the minute he put the phone down , not 13 hours later. >>
Good for you. You must be so proud.
<< <i>
<< <i>He was told immediately he would not be getting the coin , i believe that was the whole point. >>
Subsequent postings seem to indicate that that may not have been the end of the story, after all. I mean- leaving a neg 13 1/2 hours after the auction ended, of which 8 or so were hours that most people are asleep? Once again, where's the hurry to leave feedback?
Although it may or may not be relevant, a forum search using the buyer's posting id and "feedback" results in a list of threads that seems to indicate the buyer has had quite a number of problems with eBay transactions- more than most people, I'd think.
Just sayin... >>
Though the would-be buyer seems to get in disputes on ebay with alarming frequency, he has proven time and again that he is much sharper than the rest of us.
<< <i>Though the would-be buyer seems to get in disputes on ebay with alarming frequency, he has proven time and again that he is much sharper than the rest of us. >>
He didn't get the coin he bid on, did he? I'll bet he could have.
an eBay cancellation, but should have done what was necessary to re-acquire the coin and complete the
eBay transaction. Any loss associated with that would have been the price of learning a hard lesson about
the phone app.
The buyer was quick to leave a neg, but the OP could have probably negotiated a retraction had he
kept his cool and explained that he was in the process of rectifying the situation after the initial
misstep.
<< <i>
<< <i>For the record , id have negged the seller the minute he put the phone down , not 13 hours later. >>
Good for you. You must be so proud. >>
Your posts make no sense now , so ill leave it be. Ebay is a business place , commerce , the neg and pos functions are there for a reason , some (like you) still apparantly dont get that.
<< <i>Your posts make no sense now , so ill leave it be. >>
Bet you won't.
<< <i>
<< <i>Welcome to the forum and thanks for telling your side of the story. Perhaps this will help people to not rush to judgment so quickly. I hope this will all work out well for both of you. >>
Welcome to the forums spendabuckeye. >>
I couldn't have said it better myself, so I will go with "Ditto" as my response.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>I was quick about this so he wouldn't pay first as that may have worsened this situation. His response was to ask why and then indicated that a selling price below my cost at Heritage was not a valid reason. I shared the reason and filed a cancellation request thru e-bay. When i awoke in the morning i read that he had denied it which was understandable but troublesome. I shared my problem with the colleague who i had made the trade with and he agreed to meet me for lunch at olive garden (and made me buy) to undo our trade. I then attended a meeting and returned to my office. My intent was to contact the buyer and follow thru. When i saw the negative feedback, I went wild and continued to get even angrier when i received e-bay emails from people who presumably had read his post on this forum. >>
So... the buyer could have gotten the coin he wanted if he wasn't so intent on leaving negative feedback for the seller?
There's a lesson in there somewhere.
<< <i>
<< <i>Welcome to the forum and thanks for telling your side of the story. Perhaps this will help people to not rush to judgment so quickly. I hope this will all work out well for both of you. >>
Welcome to the forums spendabuckeye.
Coinduce, How big a dog do you have in this fight??????????????????????????????????????? >>
I have no relationship to either the under-performing non-seller or the over-reacting non-buyer. But I am non-chalanced at your inability to spell my forum ID correctly.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
I would not sell anything for a while on ebay if i was barndog. lol While spendabuckeye may be blocked others are not. lol
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Sell the coin to the buyer and the buyer removes the negative and you both win and move on and learn from the experience.
<< <i>I have a very simple solution for both of you.
Sell the coin to the buyer and the buyer removes the negative and you both win and move on and learn from the experience. >>
I agree with this. I have almost 500 positive feedback on ebay, and I have experienced more than one similar transaction. Both seller and buyer seem to have acted a little per-maturely. The seller should just realize his mistake, sell the original coin to the original buyer (who ultimately was right after all of this since he did win the auction) and the seller should count his losses. I have take MUCH bigger hits to do the right thing on ebay.
Just my 3 cents
<< <i>The seller should just realize his mistake, sell the original coin to the original buyer (who ultimately was right after all of this since he did win the auction) and the seller should count his losses. >>
According to the OP, this was the plan. The buyer, by being in such a hurry to leave negative feedback, has complicated the situation.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have a very simple solution for both of you.
Sell the coin to the buyer and the buyer removes the negative and you both win and move on and learn from the experience. >>
I agree with this. I have almost 500 positive feedback on ebay, and I have experienced more than one similar transaction. Both seller and buyer seem to have acted a little per-maturely. The seller should just realize his mistake, sell the original coin to the original buyer (who ultimately was right after all of this since he did win the auction) and the seller should count his losses. I have take MUCH bigger hits to do the right thing on ebay.
Just my 3 cents
This is what the seller was planning on doing.
<< <i>
<< <i>The seller should just realize his mistake, sell the original coin to the original buyer (who ultimately was right after all of this since he did win the auction) and the seller should count his losses. >>
According to the OP, this was the plan. The buyer, by being in such a hurry to leave negative feedback, has complicated the situation. >>
The under performing OP complicated the situation first during the course of the alleged telephone(?) conversation with the unsatisfied eBay customer by not offering to recover the coin from the hurried trade in order to make his blunder go away. Instead he asked to be released from his ethical obligation. The act of recovering the traded coin was merely an afterthought by the way the sequence of events has been related by the OP.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>The under performing OP complicated the situation first during the course of the alleged telephone conversation with the unsatisfied eBay customer by not offering to recover the coin from the hurried trade in order to make his blunder go away. >>
Plenty of complications here. Makes me wonder why it was necessary to leave feedback so quickly, before the complications could be sorted out.
<< <i>I think that it is pretty commendable to come on here and give the other side of the story. We all make mistakes sometimes and no one is perfect. Sounds like an honest mistake to me. >>
This can still be worked out to the satisfaction of both sides if so desired.
Bob
<< <i>
<< <i>I was quick about this so he wouldn't pay first as that may have worsened this situation. His response was to ask why and then indicated that a selling price below my cost at Heritage was not a valid reason. I shared the reason and filed a cancellation request thru e-bay. When i awoke in the morning i read that he had denied it which was understandable but troublesome. I shared my problem with the colleague who i had made the trade with and he agreed to meet me for lunch at olive garden (and made me buy) to undo our trade. I then attended a meeting and returned to my office. My intent was to contact the buyer and follow thru. When i saw the negative feedback, I went wild and continued to get even angrier when i received e-bay emails from people who presumably had read his post on this forum. >>
So... the buyer could have gotten the coin he wanted if he wasn't so intent on leaving negative feedback for the seller?
There's a lesson in there somewhere. >>
1) I think this is most likely a multitude of issues aligning to cause a bad issue
2) Going by the chronology, I think it is fair to see the point of the buyer that he was NOT going to be getting the coin, no matter what (please go re-read both sides.....auction ended, seller contacts buyer and says "no coin for you", then says "he got rid of it and no longer has it". Nowhere does he state he would try to re-acquire it
3) Seller shows his emotions run stronger than they should when it comes to thinking things out. He got mad about a single negative feedback and emails the buyer and flips him the figurative bird ("I got the coin back but you won't be getting it...nyah nyah nyah") and then gets even more emotional and goes to cancel his ebay account over this single negative feedback.
Once the buyer got told the coin was gone (and not told it would be attempted to be reacquired), then how long should he have waited to place the negative? Granted, he COULD have waited, but he was already told he had won and the coin was not going to be his....so, how long should he have waited?
The place I would fault the buyer is being too smart for his own good and showing it....when he emailed the seller and said "I know you are losing money on it and that isn't a valid reason to not sell it". That shouldn't have been mentioned at all...or at least not until the seller stated that as the reason or he saw it for sale again. Doing all the research is fine, but this whole ego thing of "I am smarter than you and tracked it down" is not worth it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Once the buyer got told the coin was gone (and not told it would be attempted to be reacquired), then how long should he have waited to place the negative? Granted, he COULD have waited, but he was already told he had won and the coin was not going to be his....so, how long should he have waited? >>
I don't know. 5 1/2 hours (most people go to bed when it gets late and don't stay up 24 hours a day, you know) seems pretty quick though, does it not? What's the risk of waiting a bit, and seeing if you can work something out, anyway? It's not like there's a 24 hour limit on leaving feedback.
Again, for about the 12th time- where's the hurry?
edited to add...
<< <i>The place I would fault the buyer is being too smart for his own good and showing it....when he emailed the seller and said "I know you are losing money on it and that isn't a valid reason to not sell it". That shouldn't have been mentioned at all... >>
Especially not in the feedback he left, as the seller never made that claim.