I had seen Whitey post a scan of his 1975 Mini uncut sheets on another board seeking input on possible value. Although I have a set, it is not a specialty area for me. But having seen all the expertise here on this set I suggested he seek input here. A little surprised he could not muster any input at all
Honestly, there have not been many mini sheets in recent years. There was a faux pas with one of the Auction Houses labeled a regular as mini last year, but it is the only one the really stands out and that was a Brett/Yount sheet.
Does anyone know if the new holders being used by PSA have a little more room in them than the previous version - making full sized cards appear slightly short because they don't fill the holder? For examples, look at these two recent certs that are not natural shorts:
Unfortunately Dave, there are no new mini holders yet. I just got a small batch back late last week, same old holders, so the issue is the cardboard you are looking at.
Unfortunately Dave, there are no new mini holders yet. I just got a small batch back late last week, same old holders, so the issue is the cardboard you are looking at.
Unfortunately, the only sure way to know one way or the other on the size is to have the card in hand and measure it. However, to get an estimate on whether a Mini for sale is full sized or short, one can count pixels (or throw a small ruler up on the screen) to get the relative length and width measurements and divide the width into the length to calculate the fraction. A full sized mini should be 80 mm / 57 mm = 1.40. Of course, this only works if the image is not distorted and the card is laid perfectly flat on the scanner. I'm also relying on the assumption that the width of a Mini has almost no variability at 57 mm which most would agree is largely true. The procedure is not foolproof by any means. I measured the Cash on the screen and it came out to 1.40, suggesting that it may be full sized even though it has extra space (height-wise) in the holder. I didn't bother measuring the Yount. It doesn't make sense to me that someone would trim a severely off-center card like that one.
BTW, I don't have any connection to the two cards for sale nor do I have an interest in purchasing them. Also, I typically shy away from holdered Mini's with space above or below the card even if they otherwise appear to be full sized with the reason being that I believe they will bring less $ on resale should I need to sell, and they could conjure up all sorts of doubts in the potential buyer's mind as to my intentions or as to the card itself. I do take my chances on raw using this methodology, and it has worked for me nearly every time.
I didn't bother measuring the Yount. It doesn't make sense to me that someone would trim a severely off-center card like that one.
Thanks Nick...this was one of many reasons why I raised the question. I've spent a lot of time and money ridding short singles from my set that were obtained during my first year. Now I'm left to ponder the possibility that even full sized cards may appear short in the holder. The two examples offered are not the only instances...not by a long shot. I've been seeing "new shorts" on the bay for 2-3 months now.
These four are from the order I just got back. All are good cards, but there is variation. Richard and May came from a pack I ripped from one of our group breaks. Zisk I believe is from a cut card case. It is one of a lot of 50 or so, all identically cut and all with a small gap as you can see. Hughes was just a natural tad short, which they are grading right now.
My conversations with Joe on the subject include his stance that shorts originate from cut card cases and in truth, those cards are just short for whatever reason. Unfortunately, you can't just use a ruler. You have to know the cut of the card. Some of the folks here are familiar with the unique edges of a cut case card. An unnatural short, done well, will look the same size, but in hand, under light, you will have an edge that just reflects wrong and for me, that is the real tell-tale (outside of key cards with gaps you can drive a truck through).
My conversations with Joe on the subject include his stance that shorts originate from cut card cases and in truth, those cards are just short for whatever reason. Unfortunately, you can't just use a ruler. You have to know the cut of the card. Some of the folks here are familiar with the unique edges of a cut case card. An unnatural short, done well, will look the same size, but in hand, under light, you will have an edge that just reflects wrong and for me, that is the real tell-tale (outside of key cards with gaps you can drive a truck through).
I agree with everything you're saying here, but for the novice on the issue, a ruler is good start to weeding out potentially bad cards.
For those wondering what MD is referring to on what to look for on a cut case card (typically .1-.2 mm short of 80 mm in most cases), you can go back about a year or so in this thread and read all about it - there's photos as well.
I'm happy to hear that they are grading natural shorts that are only a tad short, like the Hughes. I'm awaiting the outcome of a naturally short (like 1 mm or less) Skip Lockwood and am hoping for the best.
I also just recently bought a PSA 9 Tiant from Jim that was a tad short in the holder, as well, but this card was self-submitted by Jim, so I know it wasn't doctored with yet there is a small strip of space between the card and the holder. I haven't measured it, though, but will do so tonight.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
BTW, does anyone have an actual pic or scan of a 75 mini cut card case? I have never seen one. I have cut card cases from early 1980s, but have never seen one from 1975.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Never seen one, but have batches of cards from. 100+ identical messersmiths, all same cut size etc. and so on. No mistaking the look and cut, they look just like 76t cut case cards, of which i have thousands.
Just seems incredibly odd, considering how much unopened product we see still out there from this year, that no one has even seen a photo of a cut card case, let alone handled one.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
True, but I think part of that might simply be that there genuinely is that much less mini product out there. Think about it; regular 75 was sold across the country and could still be sitting in a bard anywhere. Mini's were only two markets and had a savvy collector with the means attempt to buy that limited supply. For all we know, we did see the content of cut cards in the form of the 20k raw lot that sold that night. Pure speculation, but a thought.
For all we know, we did see the content of cut cards in the form of the 20k raw lot that sold that night. Pure speculation, but a thought.
Interesting thought, and it certainly seems plausible. The earliest I can trace back "cut card case" Mini's that I've seen/possessed is a purchase I made in July 2011 at the Chantilly Show in Virginia. I picked up about 40-50 raw Mini's from a guy with a box of about 3,000. Those 40-50 I purchased included a couple of player runs of 5-10 cards, and I do remember distinctly that all or nearly all of the cards in that guy's box were off of the Brett/Yount sheet. I had no idea what I had at the time until early last year when I talked to another dealer and learned of cut card cases, generally, and then we started discussing it in this thread. But the point is that these cards seem to be a recent, post-Conlon sale phenomenon. Again, not conclusive, but it's an interesting possibility.
Incidentally, I've submitted maybe 15-20 of those originial 40-50 I purchased and received all 8's on them and one 9. That was a nice batch, and I wish I would have bought the whole box. Hindsight is 20-20 - I had no idea at the time.
Hey guys, I just started my journey of collecting the 75 mini's. I was lucky enough to open 12 packs from BBCE a few weeks ago form the same box that ryanseven shared images of earlier. My submission of 50 cards has been logged with PSA, so assuming I avoid a grader of death, I'll have some 8's, 9's and 10's pop up on the registry soon, including a few low pop guys.
As I am new to the 75 mini world, can someone please explain what a "cut card case" is, this seems to be coming up allot lately and i have no ideas what you guys are talking about?
A cut card case is 10-12 thousand cards freely stacked in a box - the cards are not packaged in wax or cello wrappers. I've read that Topps did this at the end of print year and would sell the cut card case to select dealers. Think of it as a giant vending box, but with the cards loosely packed. There is a little more information on cut card cases on pages 53 and 54 of this thread. You can also do an internet search of "Topps cut card case" and some images should come up that shows what they look like.
Good luck with your sub and collecting Mini's and don't be a stranger here.
Glad to see you finally posted after lurking around for a while nbks4xu. Just to recap for folks, between the two of us we opened 26 packs from the same BBCE box over the last couple of weeks and submitted ~130 cards from those packs in separate orders. All have been logged... now we're just waiting on poppage.
Been a hot minute since I've come through these parts; hope and trust everybody's doing great and healthy, enjoying cards. A homie on the boards knows I have never lost my passion for Mini HOFers, and he gave me the opportunity to acquire one of my favorites; I was lucky enough to handle several of the 9s over the years, but this one takes the cake-- zero tilt. Few places on earth-- make that no place-- can appreciate this one like this thread...
Good to hear from you! That Ryan is incredible - looks like it would be more at home in a 10 holder. I haven't seen one better that one! Have you tried a review?
Thx, Indy. Yeah, think I'm going to review this one. I'm not a huge review guy, but when I've handled so many of a card, and finally see one that objectively does fit the stated PSA 10 definition-- which allows for minor print imperfections as long as they don't hurt the eye appeal, why not. Reminds me of the Ryan #5 HL I reviewed many years ago. I know I've seen worse looking 10s, so I guess why not have some lighthearted fun and gamble on the review. Heck, I've blown far more gambling on worse causes (bar tabs, women, blackjack tables, et, al.).
Hey Matty - WOW! that Ryan is smoking gorgeous! By far the best I have seen. I have 2 9s and destroyed 2 others. I saw one a year ago that was similar to yours in centering and corners but had a tiny fisheye on the left. I would definitely review that card. Welcome NB4. My belief at this point regarding the 75 mini cut card case is that it is a myth. There never were cut card cases distributed because these were "test" issues on the west coast and Michigan. Unlike the regular issue that they would just jam together at the end of the year. What some of us are encountering are probably test runs or miscuts that somehow got fished out of the dumpster or some topps employee dropped in their trunk and passed on to friends. I have handled cut-card cases from other years and have never seen any size differences. What cut card cases mean is that topps would just jam overruns straight into boxes and ship to major dealers who would quickly sort the cards into raw sets and sell them.
Cut card case cards are commonly short. I have probably 8,000 76s from them and none fill the holder tightly and all are cut like the mini's I suspect.
Jim, understand - but you know I believe that you might have the major stacks of all the "odd" cut cards. I have some small stacks from lots I have won over the years. But these have NOT been circulated much (that I have seen) around the country. I think you are by far the current king of raw minis. The only other large numbers might have been handled by 4SC and we did not see these getting encased or offered for sale as raws (unless you picked them up). IMO it is quite possible you may have ended up with the majority of the test runs of topps as they recalibrated their presses for 2 different card runs that year. It would be great if somehow we could get someone from Topps to give us the definitive history. BTW - It seems that the most accurate way to describe the distribution is in Michigan and the West coast. I have run into peeps who bought these cards in Washington and I seem to recollect someone from Oregon. Further, as I stated previously around my home (South of Detroit) these were the ONLY option! Therefore, I have always maintained that these cards have a unique and tricky place in history. I do not believe "test" issue quite captures it. In an way, this just further cements how rare these cards are compared to the regular issues.
There is an ongoing discussion on the Net54 web site regarding the distribution of Mini's. Although they were widely distributed on the West Coast and Michigan, posters in that thread purchased them in other states. It's a fascinating read. Here is the link: Mini distribution
I posed the question in that thread about anyone having first or reliable second hand knowledge of cut card case Mini's, but haven't heard anything.
Thanks Indy. That IS interesting. I have always thought that it should be stated that TOPPS had two official sets that year, not one set and a test set. Of course, it is complicated by the geography issues. If you look at the current Pop reports, each year the minis become increasingly more "rare" in comparison to the regular issue.
Sweet card, Matty! You have pretty fortunate with reviews recently, so maybe your streak continues! Only thing I can see as a possible hurdle is some slight stray ink marks in the field, but it definitely has a shot. How does the back look?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I think there's got to be cut card cases out there, or at least cards that came from them. That would explain why the cards Jim is talking about are routinely just short, and why some cards look just short instead of egregiously so. If Jim has those, there also has to be others out there, too. The minis were a test issue, but there is still of product out there, not necessarily unopened still, but raw.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I think the disparity will grow markedly going foward. Nice 75 sets are everywhere still and minis are all but dry.
Pics of 75 sheets would help. Would like to know if my big lots are all the same sheet. Rudi, messersmith, matlack, madlock, marshall 6, marshall 330, lonborg, oglivie, mota come to mind.
<< <i>Sweet card, Matty! You have pretty fortunate with reviews recently, so maybe your streak continues! Only thing I can see as a possible hurdle is some slight stray ink marks in the field, but it definitely has a shot. How does the back look? >>
Back's immaculate. Have had it under lighted loupe and it's quite diesel. Does have that issue but regardless, a Ryan Mini #500 is one of few cards I can never pass up in worthy 9 condition. Copped this Brett, too, the other day. Nothing like all color on a mini's corners and no tilt...
Brett is sharp, too. Centered a bit low and not as nice as the Ryan, but love the color and registration.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I think the disparity will grow markedly going foward. Nice 75 sets are everywhere still and minis are all but dry.
Pics of 75 sheets would help. Would like to know if my big lots are all the same sheet. Rudi, messersmith, matlack, madlock, marshall 6, marshall 330, lonborg, oglivie, mota come to mind. >>
Jim, here are pics of some sheets from an old auction, with the Rudi card in the middle..
Looks like Madlock, Lonborg and Marshall #6 are on there from the list, but not the others..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I think the disparity will grow markedly going foward. Nice 75 sets are everywhere still and minis are all but dry.
Pics of 75 sheets would help. Would like to know if my big lots are all the same sheet. Rudi, messersmith, matlack, madlock, marshall 6, marshall 330, lonborg, oglivie, mota come to mind. >>
Here are photos of the sheet I mentioned my neighbor brought over. He is considering selling it. LMK if interested.
Fred
Sorry guys, I am a newbie here. Having trouble attaching files for some reason.
I've kept a list of the cards I've seen or have in my possession that have the "cut card case" cut. I've seen 25 different Mini's with this cut. Twenty-four are on the Giusti sheet (I'm naming the sheet by the player in the upper left corner). On the Alou sheet, I saw a holdered Briggs with the cut; however, in addition to the cut card case cut, I'm certain it was trimmed down even more. The cards on the Giusti sheet with the cut card case cut, most of which I have in my possession, are as follows: Giusti, Gullett, Rudi, Porter, Baker, Zisk, Doyle, Garvey, Bench, Spillner, Dobson, Montanez, Rogers, Hegan, Lolich, Taylor, Blyleven, Singleton, Patek, Cosgrove, Randle, Tiger Team, Cardinals Team, and Rivers. I've seen 0 cut card case cards from the Washington, Taveras, and Bando Sheets.
In addition to the slightly small size and distinct pressed left edge cut, these Mini's are the most richly colored Mini's I've ever seen. It's like Topps went out of their way to make these absolutely gorgeous. They are too nice to be printer calibration runs. I know what calibration runs look like, because I worked in a paperboard factory (they printed cereal and granola boxes) for a few months after college to make ends meet. I shredded tons and tons of these scrap sheets, and they all looked terrible. Incidentally, 200 sheets would be nothing for a calibration run. The printers at the factory I worked at would sometimes print thousands of boxes before they got it right - it was amazing how much paper they would go through just to get the presses started.
Edited to say that I forgot Geronimo from the Giusti sheet. So make that 26 total, 25 of which are from the Giusti sheet. Incidentally, all of the cut card case Geronimos I have are full sized and NOT slightly short like the other cut card case cards. This is the only cut card case example I've seen that is full sized.
I always go back to my raw set that I am still looking to complete. But if I started a graded set how much money would it take to complete the set in graded form in 8's and 9's?
<< <i>I always go back to my raw set that I am still looking to complete. But if I started a graded set how much money would it take to complete the set in graded form in 8's and 9's? >>
Hi George,
The amount would fluctuate wildly depending on which cards you get in PSA 8 and which in PSA 9. There are some low pop and HOF PSA 9s that would set you back hundreds and even thousands of dollars, while there are many other PSA 9s that barely cover the grading fee. it's a very unique set with lots of variables, and one of the most fun to collect, imo.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< I always go back to my raw set that I am still looking to complete. But if I started a graded set how much money would it take to complete the set in graded form in 8's and 9's? >>
Hi George,
The amount would fluctuate wildly depending on which cards you get in PSA 8 and which in PSA 9. There are some low pop and HOF PSA 9s that would set you back hundreds and even thousands of dollars, while there are many other PSA 9s that barely cover the grading fee. it's a very unique set with lots of variables, and one of the most fun to collect, imo.
Thank you Tim, I keep going back and forth on it. Who knows maybe I will give it a go. I love the 75 topps set and the mini sets make it even better.
<< <i><< I always go back to my raw set that I am still looking to complete. But if I started a graded set how much money would it take to complete the set in graded form in 8's and 9's? >>
Hi George,
The amount would fluctuate wildly depending on which cards you get in PSA 8 and which in PSA 9. There are some low pop and HOF PSA 9s that would set you back hundreds and even thousands of dollars, while there are many other PSA 9s that barely cover the grading fee. it's a very unique set with lots of variables, and one of the most fun to collect, imo.
Thank you Tim, I keep going back and forth on it. Who knows maybe I will give it a go. I love the 75 topps set and the mini sets make it even better. >>
Of course I may be biased, but I recommend it--it's a fun pursuit and you can make it fit any budget, and still get beautiful cards as many high end 8s look just as nice as 9s in many cases. I started my set back in 2007 and I'm still not finished--I'm right at about 90% completion now. I've tried to complete the set using as many self-submitted cards as possible, and I'd estimate that about 2/3 of my set consists of cards I pulled from packs and self-submitted to PSA. Of course with the prices unopened 75 mini wax boxes are now commanding ($2,750+), I open far fewer packs than when I was buying boxes at $800-$1,000 per, LOL..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Of course I may be biased, but I recommend it--it's a fun pursuit and you can make it fit any budget, and still get beautiful cards as many high end 8s look just as nice as 9s in many cases. I started my set back in 2007 and I'm still not finished--I'm right at about 90% completion now. I've tried to complete the set using as many self-submitted cards as possible, and I'd estimate that about 2/3 of my set consists of cards I pulled from packs and self-submitted to PSA. Of course with the prices unopened 75 mini wax boxes are now commanding ($2,750+), I open far fewer packs than when I was buying boxes at $800-$1,000 per, LOL..
A PSA 8 set can be had for 5k or so. A PSA 9 would take years and probably 75k~. Unbelievable difference between the two and it gets exponentially more expensive for each .10 increment in gpa. A truly fun and rewarding project however.
<< <i>Of course I may be biased, but I recommend it--it's a fun pursuit and you can make it fit any budget, and still get beautiful cards as many high end 8s look just as nice as 9s in many cases. I started my set back in 2007 and I'm still not finished--I'm right at about 90% completion now. I've tried to complete the set using as many self-submitted cards as possible, and I'd estimate that about 2/3 of my set consists of cards I pulled from packs and self-submitted to PSA. Of course with the prices unopened 75 mini wax boxes are now commanding ($2,750+), I open far fewer packs than when I was buying boxes at $800-$1,000 per, LOL..
LOL I can understand that. >>
I believe I am selling a complete 1975 mini set with PWCC next month that is about 60% 8 and 40% 7...you might be able to pick it up very cheap. Most important, all the cards fill the holder! In addition, I believe there are a couple of hard to find 8s in there (like Kusick) because I could not find a 7. I think Jim nailed the cost but not the increased difficulty and time. I believe it will take a much longer time to complete an 8 set now because the low pop red/yellow, green/yellow just don't come up for auction like they used to 5 years ago. For example, I think there are less than 20 legit C. Johnsons in an 8, and I have almost given up on finding nice full sized Gullets in an 8 or above, notwithstanding the usual monsters.
Very good point Henry. Aside from the couple of killer subs Dave (Dakillo) has had recently with low pops, there hasn't been much for some time. I was thinking in terms of some of the sets that have crossed whole in the last few years, but even those are fairly rare.
If you do sell one through PWCC, make sure you give a heads up here.
Huge grats on the Memory Lane portion of your divestiture. When folks like Grote and Hammered guess 50-100% low on what a vending case went for, you know you rocked it. Great timing.
I think Jim nailed the cost but not the increased difficulty and time
That is true, but that is also a large part of the fun~the pursuit of putting the set together!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Ok. Got some poppage on the first batch of the 75s that I posted a couple of weeks back from the BBCE rips. Still got another 80 cards left to pop.
Big highlight for this one:
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 405 JOHN MONTAGUE - now a pop 3, none higher. I'd consider selling this one. If anyone is interested, please PM me. Here's the photo of that one.
The rest weren't too shabby either. This was crazy fast poppage for a 50 day service level.
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 26 DAVE McNALLY NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 555 AL OLIVER MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 432 KEN BERRY MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 389 TONY SOLAITA NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 417 SKIP LOCKWOOD MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 424 JOHN LOWENSTEIN MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 166 WOODIE FRYMAN EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1975 TOPPS MINI 512 LARRY MILBOURNE MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 194 1956-MVP'S M.MANTLE/D.NEWCOMBE NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 104 BILL MADLOCK MINT 9 OC 1975 TOPPS MINI 237 CARL MORTON NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 471 BOB STINSON N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 127 GLENN BORGMANN NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1975 TOPPS MINI 551 LARRY CHRISTENSON NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 460 N.L. CHAMPIONSHIPS MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 312 STRIKEOUT LEADERS N.RYAN/S.CARLTON MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 636 CHARLIE MOORE NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 210 1972-MVP'S R.ALLEN/J.BENCH NEAR MINT-MINT 8 ST 1975 TOPPS MINI 96 MIKE COSGROVE MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 251 FRAN HEALY NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 126 CHECKLIST 1-132 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 201 1963-MVP'S E.HOWARD/S.KOUFAX MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 570 JIM WYNN NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 507 TOM CARROLL NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 520 AMOS OTIS MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 576 PHIL ROOF MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 419 DAVE GOLTZ MINT 9 OC 1975 TOPPS MINI 5 '74 HIGHLIGHTS NOLAN RYAN NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1975 TOPPS MINI 619 ROOKIE OUTFIELDERS NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 20 THURMAN MUNSON EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1975 TOPPS MINI 185 STEVE CARLTON NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 362 STEVE HARGAN NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 72 ROYALS TEAM JACK McKEON, MGR. NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 399 TERRY HARMON MINT 9 PD 1975 TOPPS MINI 623 ROOKIE INFIELDERS NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 236 ANGELS TEAM DICK WILLIAMS, MGR. NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 231 MIKE TYSON NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 522 GARY SUTHERLAND NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 148 JIM ROOKER NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 391 DON DeMOLA NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1975 TOPPS MINI 192 1954-MVP'S Y.BERRA/W.MAYS MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 202 1964-MVP'S B.ROBINSON/K.BOYER MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 224 RAMON HERNANDEZ NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 594 JIM FULLER NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 579 SKIP PITLOCK MINT 9 ST 1975 TOPPS MINI 198 1960-MVP'S R.MARIS/D.GROAT MINT 9 OC 1975 TOPPS MINI 69 JOHN ODOM NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 51 BOB FORSCH MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 200 1962-MVP'S M.MANTLE/M.WILLS NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 644 BILL FAHEY NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1975 TOPPS MINI 369 MERV RETTENMUND NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 318 ERNIE McANALLY NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 335 JIM PALMER
Wow, that is an awesome pop right there. That Montague card is a monster!! Congrats, Ryan!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Comments
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
Example 1
Example 2
By our normal standards (i.e. "Fills The Holder"), these do not pass muster...but they are obviously passing the grader's standards.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
I love this thread. I have been following it since the old one was still around. Someday I will join in the quest for a high grade mini set.
Margaret Thatcher
Unfortunately, the only sure way to know one way or the other on the size is to have the card in hand and measure it. However, to get an estimate on whether a Mini for sale is full sized or short, one can count pixels (or throw a small ruler up on the screen) to get the relative length and width measurements and divide the width into the length to calculate the fraction. A full sized mini should be 80 mm / 57 mm = 1.40. Of course, this only works if the image is not distorted and the card is laid perfectly flat on the scanner. I'm also relying on the assumption that the width of a Mini has almost no variability at 57 mm which most would agree is largely true. The procedure is not foolproof by any means. I measured the Cash on the screen and it came out to 1.40, suggesting that it may be full sized even though it has extra space (height-wise) in the holder. I didn't bother measuring the Yount. It doesn't make sense to me that someone would trim a severely off-center card like that one.
BTW, I don't have any connection to the two cards for sale nor do I have an interest in purchasing them. Also, I typically shy away from holdered Mini's with space above or below the card even if they otherwise appear to be full sized with the reason being that I believe they will bring less $ on resale should I need to sell, and they could conjure up all sorts of doubts in the potential buyer's mind as to my intentions or as to the card itself. I do take my chances on raw using this methodology, and it has worked for me nearly every time.
I love this thread. I have been following it since the old one was still around. Someday I will join in the quest for a high grade mini set.
Hi Gopherfan. Welcome to the thread! There's quite a bit of good info in it, and Mini's are fun to collect. It's a great set to jump into!
Thanks Nick...this was one of many reasons why I raised the question. I've spent a lot of time and money ridding short singles from my set that were obtained during my first year. Now I'm left to ponder the possibility that even full sized cards may appear short in the holder. The two examples offered are not the only instances...not by a long shot. I've been seeing "new shorts" on the bay for 2-3 months now.
My conversations with Joe on the subject include his stance that shorts originate from cut card cases and in truth, those cards are just short for whatever reason. Unfortunately, you can't just use a ruler. You have to know the cut of the card. Some of the folks here are familiar with the unique edges of a cut case card. An unnatural short, done well, will look the same size, but in hand, under light, you will have an edge that just reflects wrong and for me, that is the real tell-tale (outside of key cards with gaps you can drive a truck through).
[URL=http://s610.photobucket.com/user/jimduffett/media/May0703_zps0b710c43.jpg.html]
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I agree with everything you're saying here, but for the novice on the issue, a ruler is good start to weeding out potentially bad cards.
For those wondering what MD is referring to on what to look for on a cut case card (typically .1-.2 mm short of 80 mm in most cases), you can go back about a year or so in this thread and read all about it - there's photos as well.
I'm happy to hear that they are grading natural shorts that are only a tad short, like the Hughes. I'm awaiting the outcome of a naturally short (like 1 mm or less) Skip Lockwood and am hoping for the best.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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Interesting thought, and it certainly seems plausible. The earliest I can trace back "cut card case" Mini's that I've seen/possessed is a purchase I made in July 2011 at the Chantilly Show in Virginia. I picked up about 40-50 raw Mini's from a guy with a box of about 3,000. Those 40-50 I purchased included a couple of player runs of 5-10 cards, and I do remember distinctly that all or nearly all of the cards in that guy's box were off of the Brett/Yount sheet. I had no idea what I had at the time until early last year when I talked to another dealer and learned of cut card cases, generally, and then we started discussing it in this thread. But the point is that these cards seem to be a recent, post-Conlon sale phenomenon. Again, not conclusive, but it's an interesting possibility.
Incidentally, I've submitted maybe 15-20 of those originial 40-50 I purchased and received all 8's on them and one 9. That was a nice batch, and I wish I would have bought the whole box. Hindsight is 20-20 - I had no idea at the time.
As I am new to the 75 mini world, can someone please explain what a "cut card case" is, this seems to be coming up allot lately and i have no ideas what you guys are talking about?
A cut card case is 10-12 thousand cards freely stacked in a box - the cards are not packaged in wax or cello wrappers. I've read that Topps did this at the end of print year and would sell the cut card case to select dealers. Think of it as a giant vending box, but with the cards loosely packed. There is a little more information on cut card cases on pages 53 and 54 of this thread. You can also do an internet search of "Topps cut card case" and some images should come up that shows what they look like.
Good luck with your sub and collecting Mini's and don't be a stranger here.
Ryan Hoge - PSA President, IG: @maysmantle
Good to hear from you! That Ryan is incredible - looks like it would be more at home in a 10 holder. I haven't seen one better that one! Have you tried a review?
Nick
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Welcome NB4.
My belief at this point regarding the 75 mini cut card case is that it is a myth. There never were cut card cases distributed because these were "test" issues on the west coast and Michigan. Unlike the regular issue that they would just jam together at the end of the year. What some of us are encountering are probably test runs or miscuts that somehow got fished out of the dumpster or some topps employee dropped in their trunk and passed on to friends. I have handled cut-card cases from other years and have never seen any size differences. What cut card cases mean is that topps would just jam overruns straight into boxes and ship to major dealers who would quickly sort the cards into raw sets and sell them.
Cut card case cards are commonly short. I have probably 8,000 76s from them and none fill the holder tightly and all are cut like the mini's I suspect.
One example in my personal possession, over 200 of them, all short and cut like 76s. IMO, way too many to be miscuts or a test run (200 wasted sheets?):
[URL=http://s610.photobucket.com/user/jimduffett/media/003_zpse3fbd898.jpg.html]
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BTW - It seems that the most accurate way to describe the distribution is in Michigan and the West coast. I have run into peeps who bought these cards in Washington and I seem to recollect someone from Oregon. Further, as I stated previously around my home (South of Detroit) these were the ONLY option! Therefore, I have always maintained that these cards have a unique and tricky place in history. I do not believe "test" issue quite captures it.
In an way, this just further cements how rare these cards are compared to the regular issues.
I posed the question in that thread about anyone having first or reliable second hand knowledge of cut card case Mini's, but haven't heard anything.
That IS interesting. I have always thought that it should be stated that TOPPS had two official sets that year, not one set and a test set. Of course, it is complicated by the geography issues. If you look at the current Pop reports, each year the minis become increasingly more "rare" in comparison to the regular issue.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Pics of 75 sheets would help. Would like to know if my big lots are all the same sheet. Rudi, messersmith, matlack, madlock, marshall 6, marshall 330, lonborg, oglivie, mota come to mind.
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<< <i>Sweet card, Matty! You have pretty fortunate with reviews recently, so maybe your streak continues! Only thing I can see as a possible hurdle is some slight stray ink marks in the field, but it definitely has a shot. How does the back look? >>
Back's immaculate. Have had it under lighted loupe and it's quite diesel. Does have that issue but regardless, a Ryan Mini #500 is one of few cards I can never pass up in worthy 9 condition. Copped this Brett, too, the other day. Nothing like all color on a mini's corners and no tilt...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I think the disparity will grow markedly going foward. Nice 75 sets are everywhere still and minis are all but dry.
Pics of 75 sheets would help. Would like to know if my big lots are all the same sheet. Rudi, messersmith, matlack, madlock, marshall 6, marshall 330, lonborg, oglivie, mota come to mind. >>
Jim, here are pics of some sheets from an old auction, with the Rudi card in the middle..
Looks like Madlock, Lonborg and Marshall #6 are on there from the list, but not the others..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I think the disparity will grow markedly going foward. Nice 75 sets are everywhere still and minis are all but dry.
Pics of 75 sheets would help. Would like to know if my big lots are all the same sheet. Rudi, messersmith, matlack, madlock, marshall 6, marshall 330, lonborg, oglivie, mota come to mind. >>
Here are photos of the sheet I mentioned my neighbor brought over. He is considering selling it. LMK if interested.
Fred
Sorry guys, I am a newbie here. Having trouble attaching files for some reason.
Fred
In addition to the slightly small size and distinct pressed left edge cut, these Mini's are the most richly colored Mini's I've ever seen. It's like Topps went out of their way to make these absolutely gorgeous. They are too nice to be printer calibration runs. I know what calibration runs look like, because I worked in a paperboard factory (they printed cereal and granola boxes) for a few months after college to make ends meet. I shredded tons and tons of these scrap sheets, and they all looked terrible. Incidentally, 200 sheets would be nothing for a calibration run. The printers at the factory I worked at would sometimes print thousands of boxes before they got it right - it was amazing how much paper they would go through just to get the presses started.
Edited to say that I forgot Geronimo from the Giusti sheet. So make that 26 total, 25 of which are from the Giusti sheet. Incidentally, all of the cut card case Geronimos I have are full sized and NOT slightly short like the other cut card case cards. This is the only cut card case example I've seen that is full sized.
<< <i>I always go back to my raw set that I am still looking to complete. But if I started a graded set how much money would it take to complete the set in graded form in 8's and 9's? >>
Hi George,
The amount would fluctuate wildly depending on which cards you get in PSA 8 and which in PSA 9. There are some low pop and HOF PSA 9s that would set you back hundreds and even thousands of dollars, while there are many other PSA 9s that barely cover the grading fee. it's a very unique set with lots of variables, and one of the most fun to collect, imo.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< I always go back to my raw set that I am still looking to complete. But if I started a graded set how much money would it take to complete the set in graded form in 8's and 9's? >>
Hi George,
The amount would fluctuate wildly depending on which cards you get in PSA 8 and which in PSA 9. There are some low pop and HOF PSA 9s that would set you back hundreds and even thousands of dollars, while there are many other PSA 9s that barely cover the grading fee. it's a very unique set with lots of variables, and one of the most fun to collect, imo.
Thank you Tim, I keep going back and forth on it. Who knows maybe I will give it a go. I love the 75 topps set and the mini sets make it even better.
<< <i><< I always go back to my raw set that I am still looking to complete. But if I started a graded set how much money would it take to complete the set in graded form in 8's and 9's? >>
Hi George,
The amount would fluctuate wildly depending on which cards you get in PSA 8 and which in PSA 9. There are some low pop and HOF PSA 9s that would set you back hundreds and even thousands of dollars, while there are many other PSA 9s that barely cover the grading fee. it's a very unique set with lots of variables, and one of the most fun to collect, imo.
Thank you Tim, I keep going back and forth on it. Who knows maybe I will give it a go. I love the 75 topps set and the mini sets make it even better. >>
Of course I may be biased, but I recommend it--it's a fun pursuit and you can make it fit any budget, and still get beautiful cards as many high end 8s look just as nice as 9s in many cases. I started my set back in 2007 and I'm still not finished--I'm right at about 90% completion now. I've tried to complete the set using as many self-submitted cards as possible, and I'd estimate that about 2/3 of my set consists of cards I pulled from packs and self-submitted to PSA. Of course with the prices unopened 75 mini wax boxes are now commanding ($2,750+), I open far fewer packs than when I was buying boxes at $800-$1,000 per, LOL..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Of course I may be biased, but I recommend it--it's a fun pursuit and you can make it fit any budget, and still get beautiful cards as many high end 8s look just as nice as 9s in many cases. I started my set back in 2007 and I'm still not finished--I'm right at about 90% completion now. I've tried to complete the set using as many self-submitted cards as possible, and I'd estimate that about 2/3 of my set consists of cards I pulled from packs and self-submitted to PSA. Of course with the prices unopened 75 mini wax boxes are now commanding ($2,750+), I open far fewer packs than when I was buying boxes at $800-$1,000 per, LOL..
LOL I can understand that.
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<< <i>Of course I may be biased, but I recommend it--it's a fun pursuit and you can make it fit any budget, and still get beautiful cards as many high end 8s look just as nice as 9s in many cases. I started my set back in 2007 and I'm still not finished--I'm right at about 90% completion now. I've tried to complete the set using as many self-submitted cards as possible, and I'd estimate that about 2/3 of my set consists of cards I pulled from packs and self-submitted to PSA. Of course with the prices unopened 75 mini wax boxes are now commanding ($2,750+), I open far fewer packs than when I was buying boxes at $800-$1,000 per, LOL..
LOL I can understand that. >>
I believe I am selling a complete 1975 mini set with PWCC next month that is about 60% 8 and 40% 7...you might be able to pick it up very cheap. Most important, all the cards fill the holder! In addition, I believe there are a couple of hard to find 8s in there (like Kusick) because I could not find a 7.
I think Jim nailed the cost but not the increased difficulty and time. I believe it will take a much longer time to complete an 8 set now because the low pop red/yellow, green/yellow just don't come up for auction like they used to 5 years ago. For example, I think there are less than 20 legit C. Johnsons in an 8, and I have almost given up on finding nice full sized Gullets in an 8 or above, notwithstanding the usual monsters.
If you do sell one through PWCC, make sure you give a heads up here.
Huge grats on the Memory Lane portion of your divestiture. When folks like Grote and Hammered guess 50-100% low on what a vending case went for, you know you rocked it. Great timing.
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That is true, but that is also a large part of the fun~the pursuit of putting the set together!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Big highlight for this one:
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 405 JOHN MONTAGUE - now a pop 3, none higher. I'd consider selling this one. If anyone is interested, please PM me.
Here's the photo of that one.
The rest weren't too shabby either. This was crazy fast poppage for a 50 day service level.
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 26 DAVE McNALLY
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 555 AL OLIVER
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 432 KEN BERRY
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 389 TONY SOLAITA
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 417 SKIP LOCKWOOD
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 424 JOHN LOWENSTEIN
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 166 WOODIE FRYMAN
EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1975 TOPPS MINI 512 LARRY MILBOURNE
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 194 1956-MVP'S M.MANTLE/D.NEWCOMBE
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 104 BILL MADLOCK
MINT 9 OC 1975 TOPPS MINI 237 CARL MORTON
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 471 BOB STINSON
N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 127 GLENN BORGMANN
NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1975 TOPPS MINI 551 LARRY CHRISTENSON
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 460 N.L. CHAMPIONSHIPS
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 312 STRIKEOUT LEADERS N.RYAN/S.CARLTON
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 636 CHARLIE MOORE
NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 210 1972-MVP'S R.ALLEN/J.BENCH
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 ST 1975 TOPPS MINI 96 MIKE COSGROVE
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 251 FRAN HEALY
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 126 CHECKLIST 1-132
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 201 1963-MVP'S E.HOWARD/S.KOUFAX
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 570 JIM WYNN
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 507 TOM CARROLL
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 520 AMOS OTIS
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 576 PHIL ROOF
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 419 DAVE GOLTZ
MINT 9 OC 1975 TOPPS MINI 5 '74 HIGHLIGHTS NOLAN RYAN
NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1975 TOPPS MINI 619 ROOKIE OUTFIELDERS
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 20 THURMAN MUNSON
EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1975 TOPPS MINI 185 STEVE CARLTON
NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 362 STEVE HARGAN
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 72 ROYALS TEAM JACK McKEON, MGR.
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 399 TERRY HARMON
MINT 9 PD 1975 TOPPS MINI 623 ROOKIE INFIELDERS
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 236 ANGELS TEAM DICK WILLIAMS, MGR.
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 231 MIKE TYSON
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 522 GARY SUTHERLAND
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 148 JIM ROOKER
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 391 DON DeMOLA
NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1975 TOPPS MINI 192 1954-MVP'S Y.BERRA/W.MAYS
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 202 1964-MVP'S B.ROBINSON/K.BOYER
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 224 RAMON HERNANDEZ
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 594 JIM FULLER
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 579 SKIP PITLOCK
MINT 9 ST 1975 TOPPS MINI 198 1960-MVP'S R.MARIS/D.GROAT
MINT 9 OC 1975 TOPPS MINI 69 JOHN ODOM
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 51 BOB FORSCH
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 200 1962-MVP'S M.MANTLE/M.WILLS
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 644 BILL FAHEY
NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1975 TOPPS MINI 369 MERV RETTENMUND
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 318 ERNIE McANALLY
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 335 JIM PALMER
Ryan Hoge - PSA President, IG: @maysmantle
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.