I can't remember the guys name. Who was mini hoarder, guy bought up a bunch cases. Then they got sold off when he died. How many of those cases you guys think got opened. I remember the speculation that we would see all these 9's show up Did we see any kind of explosion once cases got sold? sure didn't help Blyleven and all other tough 9's. Pop still seem really low as always.
<< <i>I can't remember the guys name. Who was mini hoarder, guy bought up a bunch cases. Then they got sold off when he died. How many of those cases you guys think got opened. I remember the speculation that we would see all these 9's show up Did we see any kind of explosion once cases got sold? sure didn't help Blyleven and all other tough 9's. Pop still seem really low as always. >>
It was Charlie Conlan. I'm not sure how many cases worth have been opened. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the equivalent of 5-10 cases of unopened boxes. I still have two full boxes that haven't been opened. The quality is hit-or-miss. Some of the cases have lousy cuts while others contain many nicely centered examples like the one for the recent rip here. I think there is the potential that the populations will rise over time for the tough cards but probably not enough to make them cheap. Even though the cards are pack fresh, the tough cards have common quality control issues.
1. Several cases from that REA auction have been opened over the past years. 2. Those cases yielded ALMOST NO major cards in PSA 9 or 10. Not a PSA 9 Claudell or Krausse or Davis, not a PSA 10 major a HOFer like Schmidt, Ryan, or Aaron. 3. Guys are hesitant to buy the extant unopened material to rip it, knowing what OC junk likely lies inside. Unopened collectors are fine in this regard. (I do wish the price for a wax box would drop below 1K, at which point I would buy for fun.) 4. Prices are healthy as ever for these cards, and there was no cratering of the market in the aftermath of the Conlon REA sale.
In this way the Conlon REA sale really showed us so much about how tough the minis are; their prices and pops withstood a literal deluge of unopened product. What other 70's set can make that claim? It proves how there are so many problems with these cards from their birth at the factory.
While great for the set and its collectors in those aforementioned respects, the lack of great new 9s and 10s in the post-Conlon REA auction world was also kind of a bummer to those of us who made the long and rewarding march to a 9.00+ complete set. I personally began to feel that the cards I dreamt of adding to my set would just never appear, and the set was thus at a wall. As discussed the other day among us, part of a Registry Set is upgrading and growing it. Not being able to or waiting years between cards is tough on the impatient like myself
26 cases were sold in the initial auction (12 sealed and 14 open) and 1 the following year. I bought 4 of the cases and personally ripped one. The opened cases were sold in 7 case lots. I believe 5 cases from one of the lots were opened, the other two were reauctioned the following year. The other 7 case lot was parted out pretty quickly, with a good chunk opened by folks here as well. There have also been two different groups of "boxes from a sealed case" subsequent to the REA.
I don't think there is a whole lot of unopened left to tell the truth. 10-12 cases imho (plus any non conlon sleepers). The fact that one of the single sealed cases just went for $22k and was from a known so so batch says it all. I think the days of $1k boxes are done and gone. BBCE has their buy up to $1k from 700 these days as well.
Wow! You're not kidding either! I see by the cert #s that the submissions were by 4SC and other large volume clients that are identified by the opening numbers, with the exception of the Cannizzaro, which is a chronological number (1229xxxx), indicating that its several years old - perhaps the others are from the same time frame.
Is is not true that the mini slabs were slighty larger years ago? Perhaps Minimaster or Duff can confirm this, because none of these 8 cards are ever chronic shorties...especially by the full 1/8" that they appear to be lacking.
Sure bidding will be big on those 10's. Maybe even PSA gets in on it to win them and review them.
Did Conlan bust many cases/boxes of mini hoard. Make sets ect. Or was he just a wax hoarder and reseller of boxes cases. In cases. If one box was brutal, did it usually mean rest would be bad. Or was it just hit or miss pack by pack.
Those 10s are very old news. They have gone unsold from severla sellings and are now finally up with low opening bids. They are junk and the community has treated them as such. They will sell now for mad discounts.
In my own experience, and you can go back and look at vcp data, minis starting with 600xxxxxx came from DSL.
As to cases, they are the same as boxes. You know one pack in what you are looking at, which is often a nightmare. A lot of us, myself included, avoided conlons open cases on the assumption that they were not worth ripping. That turned out to be only partially true. Some of those cases were fantastic. Duncan sold a ton of stunning boxes from his 7 case lot. The other lot had a bunch of 212351 batch cases and I have not seen one of those that was not a horror.
Also with the conlon auction, it seems that some of those open cases were accumlations of loose boxes and didnt necessarily orginate in the same case.
Oh, and yay, my order was finally logged today, 13 days after receipt. Hopefully the turnaround is quicker. 620 cards, 490 minis with some real shots at low pop 9s and with luck maybe a few 10s. I should have asked Tim to sprinkle some holy water on the batch before I sent it
<< <i>Oh, and yay, my order was finally logged today, 13 days after receipt. Hopefully the turnaround is quicker. 620 cards, 490 minis with some real shots at low pop 9s and with luck maybe a few 10s. I should have asked Tim to sprinkle some holy water on the batch before I sent it >>
LOL, Jim, I have a 200+ sub right behind yours, so I used it all up!
I wish mini boxes would go back down to 1K a box, but agree with Jim that those days are over. I see box prices at around $1,300-$1,400, more if the packs are from a proven case. I just finished opening a real nice box of minis, and have one more box that I know has beautiful well-centered cards and one that I bought shrinkwrapped from BBCe about a decade ago, so I have no idea what those cards are like, and probably won't open it for that reason.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Those 10s are very old news. They have gone unsold from severla sellings and are now finally up with low opening bids. They are junk and the community has treated them as such. They will sell now for mad discounts.
. >>
I love hearing stuff like this. When a small community of set builders share information back and forth about overgraded or questionable cards, and everyone benefits from the information. Great work.
Pristine paper always seems to have really high end graded cards for any issue..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Two cards come to mind for me. The first is the most stunning example I can think of, the second a bit more subtle.
1. Stan Bahnsen - 3 years ago it was a $500 3 pop. Today it is a $35 15 pop. It seems the raw lot from conlon must have had a ton of nice examples because the pop jumped to 9 then 11 in a very, very short time. It also makes sense as the same seller had 7 of them. 2. Dave Roberts - Once argued as one of the toughestm, if not the toughest card. Now an 8 pop with a pair of 10s.
There have been several others as well..... I used a copy of a pop report dated 1/14/08, but many of these cards pop's increased more so after the Conlan Cases sold at auction.
44-Pat Dobson - pop 6 on 1/14/08, now 13 156-Dave Kingman - pop 7 on 1/14/08, now 15 170-Bert Campaneris - pop 6 on 1/14/08 now 25 243-Jim Kaat - pop 7 on 1/14/08, now 18 340-Paul Splittorff - pop 2 on 1/14/08, now 14 and there are 3 PSA 10's 445-Felix Millan - pop 2 on 1/14/08, now 10 504-Buddy Bradford - pop 4 on 1/14/08, now 11 with 1 PSA 10 505-Chris Speier - pop 4 on 1/14/08, now 16 with 1 PSA 10 638-Cubs Team - pop of 2 on 1/14/08, now 8 (probably shouldn't have made the list.... but it was one of those near impossible cards, not so impossible now) 647-Claudell Washington in PSA 8, pop of 10 on 1/14/08, now 27
While some of these cards still remain relatively low pop's they increased significantly after the Conlan Cases sold at auction. As you can see the Campaneris, Kaat, Splittorff, Speier, and Washington cards have seen substantial increases in that time frame.
When the SMR article by Kevin Glew was printed, and probably for years after, it was accepted that Claudell Washington was the [verbatim] "...absolute toughest card in the set".
Even when I began my registry quest in April of last year, I was told by several sources that #647 in 8 or better was the holy grail of the set. However, as the first few weeks of watching auctions went by, the highest-dollar sales in PSA 8 were both Terry Hughes ($300 and $390)...and the population of that card at the time was 29/4/0. This made be believe that there was more to the "tough" category than Washington...since they were selling for $100 less during the same general time frame.
After carefully watching populations and sales for the last several months, I would have to award "Holy Grail" status to a larger group including Washington, #302 Burleson, #405 Montague, #481 McEnaney and #564 Tommy Davis. All equally tough, but I would give the nod to Burleson as, bar none, the toughest.
Nice list MM. Forgot Campy. My one case yielded 4 9s for me and looks like another one for Tim coming. Somehow I don't imagine a Burleson case coming along...
The Hughes is a beast, but those prices are a premium. High final prices are many times are a result of two of the set's heavy-weights battling for the card. Pride, ego and lots of cash collide. I'm not trying to be critical of anyone, because I've thrown high bids at cards myself. Won some and lost some. For me, Washington, Burleson, Johnson, and Davis are the toughest.....but as mentioned above, I'm in the 8 or better market. I can't hang on those low pop 9's and 10's.
Sorry for the Spam guys but if anyone is interested I just added (21) PSA graded 1975 Topps Mini's to my B/S/T thread there are (17) PSA 8's (3) PSA 8.5's & (1) PSA 9. Take a look if your interested I can send scans of the cards if you want.
On the topic of rare minis that increased, let's not forget good old 583 ETCHEBARREN. He was Pop 0 I believe in PSA 9 alongside Davis and then hit pop 3.
On the topic of cornering certain cards, it's very tough. I had 3 of the Dave Roberts PSA 9s at one point and one of the 10s. That was the closest I ever came to hoarding one low-pop card.
I also still own two of the extant PSA 10 Ryan HL #7s.
In terms of toughest cards in PSA 9, I'd have to say Claudell and Davis. Even though I no longer have a Registry Set, I would still go after a Claudell PSA 9 just because it is to me the Holy Grail of mini PSA 9 non-HOFers. I'm hard pressed to think of a card that is plagued by more problems at birth: centering, print dots, smudges, overall size, focus, that card is just a mess and finding one with no flaws would be a freak of nature.
IMHO the #125 Ken Singleton is the 2nd toughest card in the set. Many of us saw the PSA 10 example on the bay and how well it floated around in the holder. That means only 2 PSA 9's and 1 PSA 8.5 example(s) exist other than that PSA 10. One other reason is ..... I don't have one.... lol.
Good point. The 10 is an abomination. Floats and is diamond cut... amazing. One of the two 9s is just as bad. The others is one of the most impressive minis in existance.
Good point, Duff: "the most impressive minis in existence." That's a cool notion.
Maybe we should do a very casual, unofficial Top Ten Existing Minis List, acknowledging of course there are some cards we haven't seen or handled. Or can each do our own list and compare. I'd put the PSA 9 Len Randle on it as well as that PSA 9 #125. MM's Claudell would be way up there for sure, maybe even as high as #2 for me after the Brett in PSA 10. I've seen four of the Brett 10s including mine, which looks the cleanest (the Brett RC is in IMO the crown of the set). We can use VCP photos I think as well of the cards. It would be kind of like a gallery of the most desirable extant minis based on our shared knowledge of the set. There was a Sal Bando someone won years ago in PSA 9 that if I recall correctly was stunning; I'd have that on my list as well.
MY TOP TEN MINIS IN EXISTENCE (that I've seen or handled)
My personal preference for minis is star 10s and the super tough commons in true, solid 9. It's VERY subjective of course, but to me the rare 9s listed below are more impressive than a common 10 even if that 10 is a pop 1. Especially when trying to assemble a MINT set, the presence of 8s drags it down. Each collector of course has his own preference as to the complexion of their ideal set. If I were to think of the most impressive ten minis I'd want to own for a set, these would be them, with lots of fine hair splitting in the order...
1. Brett PSA 10 2. 647 PSA 9 3. Yount PSA 10 4. Aaron 660 PSA 10 5. Ryan HL #5 PSA 10 6. Len Randle PSA 9 7. Singleton PSA 9 8. Sal Bando PSA 9 9. Krausse PSA 9 10* tie. Tanana PSA 9 10* tie. PSA 9 Schmidt 11. Haven't seen the PSA 10 Bob Gibson or PSA 9 Dave Giustis or the PSA 10 Mike Wallace
I'd have to have the PSA 10 #1 Aaron HL somewhere on that list. Only 4 of them and it's one of my finest looking Mini's. Dark Brown borders makes it pretty tough, as with all the HL cards. Aaron still in his Atlanta Uniform..... awesome card!
I have the Mike Wallace PSA 10 and it is graced with perfection. zero print marks, crystal clear image, rich color, perfect centering, corners and edges, fills holder completely. My jaw drops when I look at the Wallace PSA 10. I don't have a problem with this card on the list
I'll have to think on this awhile before I make my list... I would agree with at least 3 maybe 4 on your list, though not sure of order yet. This type of list will be very subjective, as collectors can have much different likes and dislikes.... I (very much) like your idea of making a list.
Shortening it to 10 is definitely tough. And then ordering it is a tall task, with much hair splitting. The no brainer PSA 10s of a top ten, to me, are Brett & Yount, Ryan #5, the lone Aaron 660, though the color of that one never really satisfied me, as compared to the best 9s out there. But it was definitely 10-worthy for sure. Then yes, the #1HL.
I think I'd then go for the insanely hard 9s before commons in Pop 1 PSA 10, because the way I collect, I feel the most elite set has as few 8s as possible, and the best 9s of those tough cards are so far above the other examples out there, whereas a Pop 1 common in PSA 10 might not be so much better than the best 9s of the same card. But again everything is very subjective.
It's kind of a like a draft: if you had the pick of any ten minis in the world to form the cornerstone of your ideal set, which would they be?
It was a long decision-making process; ultimately I felt I had taken my set as far as I could. The upgrades I was longing for (those last few PSA 9 commons, and as yet unminted star 10s like Schmidt, Winfield, Rose, or Ryan) were just not popping up at all. And I guess I am naturally impatient, and after a few years of little activity, began to really want to acquire some new cards.
My only option for upgrading became the occasional common PSA 10, and that had never been my personal style or set complexion; I was always about star 10s and the rest in 9s. That is when The Registry can get a little dangerous: when it spurs one to buy cards they normally would not. I wanted to resist that urge, especially when asking myself, 'What would I rather own, a few PSA 10 mini commons or a Babe Ruth card?' If money were no object, sure, I'd happily go for both! Also, I have always had criticisms of the highly subjective Registry GPA formula, and did not want to spend money only to see that decimal rise on a computer screen, at the opportunity cost of other cards I've always wanted.
So with resources being unfortunately finite, I began to think of all the cards I've never owned but could suddenly acquire, if I shifted my collecting focus a little... I wondered, for example, if I'd be happy with keeping my absolute best, favorite minis, to represent my favorite set in my collection, but otherwise just having a nice raw set-- ideally from a fellow mini collector, so I knew it was all fresh from packs. I waited a few months, just to see what if any upgrades would surface, and during that time my itch to acquire new cards was growing.
From a sheerly pragmatic perspective, owning 660 slabs was also a lot to appreciate, since I keep my cards in bank boxes. And when I would visit them it was very time consuming to look through them all. I realized I'd rather have a smaller collection that I could appreciate in person more often-- and a great raw mini set I could keep in my office and look at whenever. The minis will always be a huge passion for me, and I'll always be in the hunt for truly special ones.
Then, in December of this past year, I came across some rare luck (I have pretty crappy luck). I had an opportunity to acquire two of my favorite pieces of all time (after Brett and Yount minis in PSA 10 of course). These were a '52 Topps Mantle with amazing eye appeal for an affordable grade and a '75 Cello Pack with Brett top and Yount back. I never even thought that cello pack existed. Obtaining those two pieces kind of put me to a tough decision, and I took the plunge of breaking my set and keeping the best ones. If some miracle case had yielded some astounding, seminal new minis, I'd have likely kept on. But my set was really at a wall, and thus so was my collecting.
In the end I learned a lot about how to best sell a nice set, and learning a new facet of our fun hobby is always rewarding. To help illustrate why I was so tempted to break the set, I'll include some pictures below of cards the set break helped finance.
If anyone feels the below pics are too off-topic, just let me know and I will immediately remove them; but they do show just what good minis can in effect be traded for
Thanks. I really look at it in the end as a trade. It's as if someone said: You can have (A) your set or you can (B) keep your handful of best cards from it, plus have all these others you've always wanted, plus a nice chunk of cash.
Because I had busted my a** over several years building the mini set and scouring the earth for some of those cards and always buying what was inside the holder, it was essentially in an inactive state since 2011. Were it still a work in progress, it would've been different. So I accepted the metaphorical trade.
I miss some of the minis for sure, but I know they are in great hands and amazing sets-- and again, whenever resources are finite, as they are for most of us, you have to choose one road or the other.
I just wish there were more scans of all the sets out there; looking at cards is seriously mellowing for me.
I love looking at the cards too. Can't understand some of the d-bags in the community forum bashing collectors for posting scans of their collections. We all enjoy cards. What better way to learn about them than seeing collections, learning why folks collect what they do, and the story behind the acquisitions. I just got an Epson Photo scanner. Over the next couple of weeks, I plan on scanning in my favorite minis in my set and tagging them into the registry if I can figure out how to do it????
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your cards Matty, a tough decision no doubt! Lucky for you, your young and have all sorts of time to write something that nets you more money than you'll ever be able to spend in a lifetime. You can then simply buy my set and live in collector bliss the remainder of your life Your passion for Mini's clearly lives on. Please continue to share your thoughts about Mini's or any other collector experiences you want. You'll always be welcome on this thread. Your perspectives on the Mini's have helped shape the positive character of this thread (and the one we're waiting to get reinstated). Best of luck in your new direction of collecting!
I would say these all would make my top 10 mini's favorite cards. Aaron highlight and reg Blyleven Killebrew Oliva ok I'm Twins fan Love both Reggie Jackson and Fingers cards. Seaver Kaline HL Brooks Robinson
Thought a little bit more and realized there's no way I could honestly make a top 10 list with a common 10 over a star 10, unless perhaps it was the #647 Claudell Washington
Robin Yount (10) Hank Aaron HL (10) Bob Gibson (10) Johnny Bench (10) Steve Carlton (10) Thurman Munson (10) Brooks Robinson (10) Claudell Washington (9) Carlton Fisk (10) George Brett (9)
Honorable mentions would include: Mike Wallace (10), Bert Campaneris (10), Bert Blyleven (9), Rollie Fingers (9), Willie Montanez (like the action shots) (10) Ken Griffey (10), Dick Allen, (9), Rennie Stennett (10), Clyde Wright (10), Ross Grimsley (9), Nolan Ryan (9), Jose Cruz (9), Billy Williams (10), WS Game #4 (10), Hank Aaron (9) . I could go on and on.... let's face it (for me), almost the rest of the set.... lol.
Here's a low pop 9 update (related to my earlier question of what defines a "low pop" 9). A #82 Pat Kelly in PSA 9 went for $113 + $3 shipping. It's one of 13 9's with no 10's. It was opined that a pop of 15 is "low pop". With no 10's this card must have qualified.
If one of you bought this: 1975 Topps Mini #618 McGregor Rhoden Rookie RC PSA 10 GEM MINT POP 1 ONLY - $1,275 - I'm in the market for the card it replaces but a fraction of the 10 price. Say, less than 1%?
1975 Topps MINI #1 Hank Aaron Atlanta Braves HOF PSA 10 GEM MINT - $4,000 at the bell.. Bazinga!
1975 Topps Mini -- Reggie Jackson #461 -- PSA 10, Pop 1 - $3,000 - Wow!
1975 Topps Mini Ken Singleton #125 PSA 10 GEM MINT (PWCC) - $610; This stands out when you consider there are only 2 PSA 9's and 1 PSA 10.
There were a few north of $500 and most at $150 - $200
1975 TOPPS MINI #107 JIM BARR PSA 10 GIANTS POP 2 - I'm looking for this is an 8
Here's my latest sub of minis back (small one) from PSA...obviously very happy with Beene and also Campy (which I really thought had a shot at a 10) and Washington, both of which are toughies especially in full size. Was disappointed in the Yount and Aaron HL cards, which like the Tenace card in my last sub, could easily grade Mint 9 on a different day. I've now gotten 14 PSa 9 and 1 PSA 10 out of my last 32 graded minis, so I'm very pleased overall.
Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type 1 1 19664356 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 436 KEN FRAILING Card 2 1 19664357 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 117 ORIOLES TEAM EARL WEAVER, MGR. Card 3 1 19664358 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 189 1951-MVP'S Y.BERRA/R.CAMPANELLA Card 4 1 19664359 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 1 '74 HIGHLIGHTS HANK AARON Card 5 1 19664360 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 130 PHIL NIEKRO Card 6 1 19664361 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 170 BERT CAMPANERIS Card 7 1 19664362 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 223 ROBIN YOUNT Card 8 1 19664363 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 61 DAVE WINFIELD Card 9 1 19664364 NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1975 TOPPS MINI 382 DON BAYLOR Card 10 1 19664365 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 73 J.R. RICHARD Card 11 1 19664366 GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 181 FRED BEENE Card 12 1 19664367 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 407 HERB WASHINGTON Card
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I had a small sub pop last night. I didn't as well as I would have liked, although, I have to admit, I was pushing the envelope on these. Nearly all of them were from my original raw set I built 3 or 4 years ago when I first entered into the mini game. I was scraping the bottom of the barrel on subbing these, so this is probably the end of it as far as getting anything more out of that raw set. Altogether, I probably pulled around 75-100 nice 8 and 9's out of it, so I can't complain. Some of those 9's are in the sets of those who follow this board.
The only real surprise is the Barr. I must have missed a wrinkle, because I thought for sure it was an easy 8 or 9. Duff had one for sale in an 8 a couple of weeks ago for 4 bucks; I didn't pick it up thinking I had a sure fire 8 already. I regret that decision.
Once again, I failed to get an 8 or better on a red/yellow (note the Gibson and the Milbourne). I'm really frustrated about that and about ready to give up on trying to sub that color combo. I think the last red/yellow I got into an 8 holder was McEnaney over a year ago.
The one card that cracks me up is the Doyle. I think that is something like the fourth or fifth 8 I've pulled on that issue. I always thought of it as a tough one. If it is a toughie, I wish I could spread that luck around on grading some other of the tougher ones, like the red/yellows I need in an 8.
1 19685752 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1975 TOPPS MINI 107 JIM BARR 2 19685753 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 150 BOB GIBSON 3 19685754 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 187 DENNY DOYLE 4 19685755 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 188 TOM GRIFFIN 5 19685756 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 207 1969-MVP'S H.KILLEBREW/W.McCOVEY 6 19685757 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 246 CARDINALS TEAM R. SCHOENDIENST, MGR. 7 19685758 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 266 SANDY ALOMAR 8 19685759 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 287 RORIC HARRISON 9 19685760 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 310 '74 VICTORY LEADERS 10 19685761 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 313 LEADING FIREMEN T.FORSTER/M.MARSHALL 11 19685762 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 379 BERNIE CARBO 12 19685763 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 416 LARRY LINTZ 13 19685764 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 431 ROD GILBREATH 14 19685765 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 436 KEN FRAILING 15 19685766 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 437 AL COWENS 16 19685767 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 446 BART JOHNSON 17 19685768 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 452 ANGEL MANGUAL 18 19685769 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 455 DON WILSON 19 19685770 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 470 JEFF BURROUGHS 20 19685771 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 511 RANGERS TEAM BILLY MARTIN, MGR. 21 19685772 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 512 LARRY MILBOURNE 22 19685773 N8: MISCUT 1975 TOPPS MINI 516 DON HOOD 23 19685774 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 521 DENNIS BLAIR 24 19685775 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 603 LEW KRAUSSE 25 19685776 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 567 JIM SUNDBERG
Nick - I checked your list and think I have some cards that you have not filled yet. Check my Take 2 - cal mini's list on the registry. I have not looked at the list for quite some time, and I'm sure it's not a complete list of my 2nds, but what stands out is the Mota in 9.. Looks like I have two of them. Funny - I have some raw ones that should pull an 8 but I'm trying to sub only cards that fill my set needs or that I feel should grade a 9. I have about 100 cards to send in and I'll add a Mota if the centering is good enough. -Scott
Tim - Right about now I'd be pacing around my other racks salivating ... killer sub again, grats
Indy - That is a nicer sub than you give yourself credit for. There are some really hard 8s. If they are the stragglers of your original raw set, it must have been a nice set indeed.
Still waiting on my 620 card sub from 3/2...my fingers are getting cramped from being crossed for so long. :-)
Comments
<< <i>I can't remember the guys name. Who was mini hoarder, guy bought up a bunch cases. Then they got sold off when he died. How many of those cases you guys think got opened. I remember the speculation that we would see all these 9's show up Did we see any kind of explosion once cases got sold? sure didn't help Blyleven and all other tough 9's. Pop still seem really low as always. >>
It was Charlie Conlan. I'm not sure how many cases worth have been opened. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the equivalent of 5-10 cases of unopened boxes. I still have two full boxes that haven't been opened. The quality is hit-or-miss. Some of the cases have lousy cuts while others contain many nicely centered examples like the one for the recent rip here. I think there is the potential that the populations will rise over time for the tough cards but probably not enough to make them cheap. Even though the cards are pack fresh, the tough cards have common quality control issues.
1. Several cases from that REA auction have been opened over the past years.
2. Those cases yielded ALMOST NO major cards in PSA 9 or 10. Not a PSA 9 Claudell or Krausse or Davis, not a PSA 10 major a HOFer like Schmidt, Ryan, or Aaron.
3. Guys are hesitant to buy the extant unopened material to rip it, knowing what OC junk likely lies inside. Unopened collectors are fine in this regard. (I do wish the price for a wax box would drop below 1K, at which point I would buy for fun.)
4. Prices are healthy as ever for these cards, and there was no cratering of the market in the aftermath of the Conlon REA sale.
In this way the Conlon REA sale really showed us so much about how tough the minis are; their prices and pops withstood a literal deluge of unopened product. What other 70's set can make that claim? It proves how there are so many problems with these cards from their birth at the factory.
While great for the set and its collectors in those aforementioned respects, the lack of great new 9s and 10s in the post-Conlon REA auction world was also kind of a bummer to those of us who made the long and rewarding march to a 9.00+ complete set. I personally began to feel that the cards I dreamt of adding to my set would just never appear, and the set was thus at a wall. As discussed the other day among us, part of a Registry Set is upgrading and growing it. Not being able to or waiting years between cards is tough on the impatient like myself
The opened cases were sold in 7 case lots. I believe 5 cases from one of the lots were opened, the other two were reauctioned the following year. The other 7 case lot was parted out pretty quickly, with a good chunk opened by folks here as well.
There have also been two different groups of "boxes from a sealed case" subsequent to the REA.
I don't think there is a whole lot of unopened left to tell the truth. 10-12 cases imho (plus any non conlon sleepers). The fact that one of the single sealed cases just went for $22k and was from a known so so batch says it all. I think the days of $1k boxes are done and gone. BBCE has their buy up to $1k from 700 these days as well.
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Is is not true that the mini slabs were slighty larger years ago? Perhaps Minimaster or Duff can confirm this, because none of these 8 cards are ever chronic shorties...especially by the full 1/8" that they appear to be lacking.
Did Conlan bust many cases/boxes of mini hoard. Make sets ect. Or was he just a wax hoarder and reseller of boxes cases. In cases. If one box was brutal, did it usually mean rest would be bad. Or was it just hit or miss pack by pack.
In my own experience, and you can go back and look at vcp data, minis starting with 600xxxxxx came from DSL.
As to cases, they are the same as boxes. You know one pack in what you are looking at, which is often a nightmare. A lot of us, myself included, avoided conlons open cases on the assumption that they were not worth ripping. That turned out to be only partially true. Some of those cases were fantastic. Duncan sold a ton of stunning boxes from his 7 case lot. The other lot had a bunch of 212351 batch cases and I have not seen one of those that was not a horror.
Also with the conlon auction, it seems that some of those open cases were accumlations of loose boxes and didnt necessarily orginate in the same case.
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<< <i>Oh, and yay, my order was finally logged today, 13 days after receipt. Hopefully the turnaround is quicker. 620 cards, 490 minis with some real shots at low pop 9s and with luck maybe a few 10s. I should have asked Tim to sprinkle some holy water on the batch before I sent it
LOL, Jim, I have a 200+ sub right behind yours, so I used it all up!
I wish mini boxes would go back down to 1K a box, but agree with Jim that those days are over. I see box prices at around $1,300-$1,400, more if the packs are from a proven case. I just finished opening a real nice box of minis, and have one more box that I know has beautiful well-centered cards and one that I bought shrinkwrapped from BBCe about a decade ago, so I have no idea what those cards are like, and probably won't open it for that reason.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Those 10s are very old news. They have gone unsold from severla sellings and are now finally up with low opening bids. They are junk and the community has treated them as such. They will sell now for mad discounts.
. >>
I love hearing stuff like this. When a small community of set builders share information back and forth about overgraded or questionable
cards, and everyone benefits from the information. Great work.
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Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
what do you consider a low pop 9 number wise these days and how many cards roughly in set are still low pop 9 now.
minimaster you ever see any once low pop 9 cards all of sudden start getting a lot of 9's made?
PSA needs to do another mini story
I think Grote hit two 459 AL Champs in one shot also. It's rare but it does happen.
After the mini article in SMR the Bob Gibson HL exploded.
1. Stan Bahnsen - 3 years ago it was a $500 3 pop. Today it is a $35 15 pop. It seems the raw lot from conlon must have had a ton of nice examples because the pop jumped to 9 then 11 in a very, very short time. It also makes sense as the same seller had 7 of them.
2. Dave Roberts - Once argued as one of the toughestm, if not the toughest card. Now an 8 pop with a pair of 10s.
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44-Pat Dobson - pop 6 on 1/14/08, now 13
156-Dave Kingman - pop 7 on 1/14/08, now 15
170-Bert Campaneris - pop 6 on 1/14/08 now 25
243-Jim Kaat - pop 7 on 1/14/08, now 18
340-Paul Splittorff - pop 2 on 1/14/08, now 14 and there are 3 PSA 10's
445-Felix Millan - pop 2 on 1/14/08, now 10
504-Buddy Bradford - pop 4 on 1/14/08, now 11 with 1 PSA 10
505-Chris Speier - pop 4 on 1/14/08, now 16 with 1 PSA 10
638-Cubs Team - pop of 2 on 1/14/08, now 8 (probably shouldn't have made the list.... but it was one of those near impossible cards, not so impossible now)
647-Claudell Washington in PSA 8, pop of 10 on 1/14/08, now 27
While some of these cards still remain relatively low pop's they increased significantly after the Conlan Cases sold at auction. As you can see the Campaneris, Kaat, Splittorff, Speier, and Washington cards have seen substantial increases in that time frame.
Even when I began my registry quest in April of last year, I was told by several sources that #647 in 8 or better was the holy grail of the set. However, as the first few weeks of watching auctions went by, the highest-dollar sales in PSA 8 were both Terry Hughes ($300 and $390)...and the population of that card at the time was 29/4/0. This made be believe that there was more to the "tough" category than Washington...since they were selling for $100 less during the same general time frame.
After carefully watching populations and sales for the last several months, I would have to award "Holy Grail" status to a larger group including Washington, #302 Burleson, #405 Montague, #481 McEnaney and #564 Tommy Davis. All equally tough, but I would give the nod to Burleson as, bar none, the toughest.
Nice list MM. Forgot Campy. My one case yielded 4 9s for me and looks like another one for Tim coming. Somehow I don't imagine a Burleson case coming along...
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The Hughes is a beast, but those prices are a premium. High final prices are many times are a result of two of the set's heavy-weights battling for the card. Pride, ego and lots of cash collide. I'm not trying to be critical of anyone, because I've thrown high bids at cards myself. Won some and lost some. For me, Washington, Burleson, Johnson, and Davis are the toughest.....but as mentioned above, I'm in the 8 or better market. I can't hang on those low pop 9's and 10's.
Good info on some of the tougher cards.
You know the heavyweights will be slugging it out over all those 10's up now.
Could we see some hoarding of those or collectors cornering market on certain cards. Own as many as rare copies themselves.
B/S/T thread there are (17) PSA 8's (3) PSA 8.5's & (1) PSA 9. Take a look if your interested I can send scans
of the cards if you want.
FS: (21) 1975 Topps Minis
James
On the topic of rare minis that increased, let's not forget good old 583 ETCHEBARREN. He was Pop 0 I believe in PSA 9 alongside Davis and then hit pop 3.
On the topic of cornering certain cards, it's very tough. I had 3 of the Dave Roberts PSA 9s at one point and one of the 10s. That was the closest I ever came to hoarding one low-pop card.
I also still own two of the extant PSA 10 Ryan HL #7s.
In terms of toughest cards in PSA 9, I'd have to say Claudell and Davis. Even though I no longer have a Registry Set, I would still go after a Claudell PSA 9 just because it is to me the Holy Grail of mini PSA 9 non-HOFers. I'm hard pressed to think of a card that is plagued by more problems at birth: centering, print dots, smudges, overall size, focus, that card is just a mess and finding one with no flaws would be a freak of nature.
Fine Job Dakillo!
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Maybe we should do a very casual, unofficial Top Ten Existing Minis List, acknowledging of course there are some cards we haven't seen or handled. Or can each do our own list and compare. I'd put the PSA 9 Len Randle on it as well as that PSA 9 #125. MM's Claudell would be way up there for sure, maybe even as high as #2 for me after the Brett in PSA 10. I've seen four of the Brett 10s including mine, which looks the cleanest (the Brett RC is in IMO the crown of the set). We can use VCP photos I think as well of the cards. It would be kind of like a gallery of the most desirable extant minis based on our shared knowledge of the set. There was a Sal Bando someone won years ago in PSA 9 that if I recall correctly was stunning; I'd have that on my list as well.
MY TOP TEN MINIS IN EXISTENCE (that I've seen or handled)
My personal preference for minis is star 10s and the super tough commons in true, solid 9. It's VERY subjective of course, but to me the rare 9s listed below are more impressive than a common 10 even if that 10 is a pop 1. Especially when trying to assemble a MINT set, the presence of 8s drags it down. Each collector of course has his own preference as to the complexion of their ideal set. If I were to think of the most impressive ten minis I'd want to own for a set, these would be them, with lots of fine hair splitting in the order...
1. Brett PSA 10
2. 647 PSA 9
3. Yount PSA 10
4. Aaron 660 PSA 10
5. Ryan HL #5 PSA 10
6. Len Randle PSA 9
7. Singleton PSA 9
8. Sal Bando PSA 9
9. Krausse PSA 9
10* tie. Tanana PSA 9
10* tie. PSA 9 Schmidt
11. Haven't seen the PSA 10 Bob Gibson or PSA 9 Dave Giustis or the PSA 10 Mike Wallace
I have the Mike Wallace PSA 10 and it is graced with perfection. zero print marks, crystal clear image, rich color, perfect centering, corners and edges, fills holder completely. My jaw drops when I look at the Wallace PSA 10. I don't have a problem with this card on the list
I'll have to think on this awhile before I make my list... I would agree with at least 3 maybe 4 on your list, though not sure of order yet. This type of list will be very subjective, as collectors can have much different likes and dislikes.... I (very much) like your idea of making a list.
I think I'd then go for the insanely hard 9s before commons in Pop 1 PSA 10, because the way I collect, I feel the most elite set has as few 8s as possible, and the best 9s of those tough cards are so far above the other examples out there, whereas a Pop 1 common in PSA 10 might not be so much better than the best 9s of the same card. But again everything is very subjective.
It's kind of a like a draft: if you had the pick of any ten minis in the world to form the cornerstone of your ideal set, which would they be?
It was a long decision-making process; ultimately I felt I had taken my set as far as I could. The upgrades I was longing for (those last few PSA 9 commons, and as yet unminted star 10s like Schmidt, Winfield, Rose, or Ryan) were just not popping up at all. And I guess I am naturally impatient, and after a few years of little activity, began to really want to acquire some new cards.
My only option for upgrading became the occasional common PSA 10, and that had never been my personal style or set complexion; I was always about star 10s and the rest in 9s. That is when The Registry can get a little dangerous: when it spurs one to buy cards they normally would not. I wanted to resist that urge, especially when asking myself, 'What would I rather own, a few PSA 10 mini commons or a Babe Ruth card?' If money were no object, sure, I'd happily go for both! Also, I have always had criticisms of the highly subjective Registry GPA formula, and did not want to spend money only to see that decimal rise on a computer screen, at the opportunity cost of other cards I've always wanted.
So with resources being unfortunately finite, I began to think of all the cards I've never owned but could suddenly acquire, if I shifted my collecting focus a little... I wondered, for example, if I'd be happy with keeping my absolute best, favorite minis, to represent my favorite set in my collection, but otherwise just having a nice raw set-- ideally from a fellow mini collector, so I knew it was all fresh from packs. I waited a few months, just to see what if any upgrades would surface, and during that time my itch to acquire new cards was growing.
From a sheerly pragmatic perspective, owning 660 slabs was also a lot to appreciate, since I keep my cards in bank boxes. And when I would visit them it was very time consuming to look through them all. I realized I'd rather have a smaller collection that I could appreciate in person more often-- and a great raw mini set I could keep in my office and look at whenever. The minis will always be a huge passion for me, and I'll always be in the hunt for truly special ones.
Then, in December of this past year, I came across some rare luck (I have pretty crappy luck). I had an opportunity to acquire two of my favorite pieces of all time (after Brett and Yount minis in PSA 10 of course). These were a '52 Topps Mantle with amazing eye appeal for an affordable grade and a '75 Cello Pack with Brett top and Yount back. I never even thought that cello pack existed. Obtaining those two pieces kind of put me to a tough decision, and I took the plunge of breaking my set and keeping the best ones. If some miracle case had yielded some astounding, seminal new minis, I'd have likely kept on. But my set was really at a wall, and thus so was my collecting.
In the end I learned a lot about how to best sell a nice set, and learning a new facet of our fun hobby is always rewarding. To help illustrate why I was so tempted to break the set, I'll include some pictures below of cards the set break helped finance.
If anyone feels the below pics are too off-topic, just let me know and I will immediately remove them; but they do show just what good minis can in effect be traded for
Will fire up photobucket now...
To borrow from your profession and to quote Lou Brown in Major League - "Don't ever f-ing do it again,"
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Because I had busted my a** over several years building the mini set and scouring the earth for some of those cards and always buying what was inside the holder, it was essentially in an inactive state since 2011. Were it still a work in progress, it would've been different. So I accepted the metaphorical trade.
I miss some of the minis for sure, but I know they are in great hands and amazing sets-- and again, whenever resources are finite, as they are for most of us, you have to choose one road or the other.
I just wish there were more scans of all the sets out there; looking at cards is seriously mellowing for me.
I would say these all would make my top 10 mini's favorite cards.
Aaron highlight and reg
Blyleven
Killebrew
Oliva ok I'm Twins fan
Love both Reggie Jackson and Fingers cards.
Seaver
Kaline HL
Brooks Robinson
Robin Yount (10)
Hank Aaron HL (10)
Bob Gibson (10)
Johnny Bench (10)
Steve Carlton (10)
Thurman Munson (10)
Brooks Robinson (10)
Claudell Washington (9)
Carlton Fisk (10)
George Brett (9)
Honorable mentions would include: Mike Wallace (10), Bert Campaneris (10), Bert Blyleven (9), Rollie Fingers (9), Willie Montanez (like the action shots) (10)
Ken Griffey (10), Dick Allen, (9), Rennie Stennett (10), Clyde Wright (10), Ross Grimsley (9), Nolan Ryan (9), Jose Cruz (9), Billy Williams (10), WS Game #4 (10), Hank Aaron (9) . I could go on and on.... let's face it (for me), almost the rest of the set.... lol.
<< <i>There are a lot of new 10s on the 'bay from one seller and there is a lot of real estate between the card tops and the slabs.
Linky-poo >>
These end tonight. Wonder if we some big snipes go off
Any of you guys / gals the lucky winner?
1975 mini's
1954 Wilson Franks
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If one of you bought this: 1975 Topps Mini #618 McGregor Rhoden Rookie RC PSA 10 GEM MINT POP 1 ONLY - $1,275 - I'm in the market for the card it replaces but a fraction of the 10 price. Say, less than 1%?
1975 Topps MINI #1 Hank Aaron Atlanta Braves HOF PSA 10 GEM MINT - $4,000 at the bell.. Bazinga!
1975 Topps Mini -- Reggie Jackson #461 -- PSA 10, Pop 1 - $3,000 - Wow!
1975 Topps Mini Ken Singleton #125 PSA 10 GEM MINT (PWCC) - $610; This stands out when you consider there are only 2 PSA 9's and 1 PSA 10.
There were a few north of $500 and most at $150 - $200
1975 TOPPS MINI #107 JIM BARR PSA 10 GIANTS POP 2 - I'm looking for this is an 8
1975 mini's
1954 Wilson Franks
Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type
1 1 19664356 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 436 KEN FRAILING Card
2 1 19664357 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 117 ORIOLES TEAM EARL WEAVER, MGR. Card
3 1 19664358 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 189 1951-MVP'S Y.BERRA/R.CAMPANELLA Card
4 1 19664359 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 1 '74 HIGHLIGHTS HANK AARON Card
5 1 19664360 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 130 PHIL NIEKRO Card
6 1 19664361 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 170 BERT CAMPANERIS Card
7 1 19664362 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 223 ROBIN YOUNT Card
8 1 19664363 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 61 DAVE WINFIELD Card
9 1 19664364 NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1975 TOPPS MINI 382 DON BAYLOR Card
10 1 19664365 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 73 J.R. RICHARD Card
11 1 19664366 GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 181 FRED BEENE Card
12 1 19664367 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 407 HERB WASHINGTON Card
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I had a small sub pop last night. I didn't as well as I would have liked, although, I have to admit, I was pushing the envelope on these. Nearly all of them were from my original raw set I built 3 or 4 years ago when I first entered into the mini game. I was scraping the bottom of the barrel on subbing these, so this is probably the end of it as far as getting anything more out of that raw set. Altogether, I probably pulled around 75-100 nice 8 and 9's out of it, so I can't complain. Some of those 9's are in the sets of those who follow this board.
The only real surprise is the Barr. I must have missed a wrinkle, because I thought for sure it was an easy 8 or 9. Duff had one for sale in an 8 a couple of weeks ago for 4 bucks; I didn't pick it up thinking I had a sure fire 8 already. I regret that decision.
Once again, I failed to get an 8 or better on a red/yellow (note the Gibson and the Milbourne). I'm really frustrated about that and about ready to give up on trying to sub that color combo. I think the last red/yellow I got into an 8 holder was McEnaney over a year ago.
The one card that cracks me up is the Doyle. I think that is something like the fourth or fifth 8 I've pulled on that issue. I always thought of it as a tough one. If it is a toughie, I wish I could spread that luck around on grading some other of the tougher ones, like the red/yellows I need in an 8.
1 19685752 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1975 TOPPS MINI 107 JIM BARR
2 19685753 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 150 BOB GIBSON
3 19685754 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 187 DENNY DOYLE
4 19685755 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 188 TOM GRIFFIN
5 19685756 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 207 1969-MVP'S H.KILLEBREW/W.McCOVEY
6 19685757 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 246 CARDINALS TEAM R. SCHOENDIENST, MGR.
7 19685758 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 266 SANDY ALOMAR
8 19685759 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 287 RORIC HARRISON
9 19685760 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 310 '74 VICTORY LEADERS
10 19685761 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 313 LEADING FIREMEN T.FORSTER/M.MARSHALL
11 19685762 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 379 BERNIE CARBO
12 19685763 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 416 LARRY LINTZ
13 19685764 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 431 ROD GILBREATH
14 19685765 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 436 KEN FRAILING
15 19685766 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 437 AL COWENS
16 19685767 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 446 BART JOHNSON
17 19685768 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 452 ANGEL MANGUAL
18 19685769 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 455 DON WILSON
19 19685770 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 470 JEFF BURROUGHS
20 19685771 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 511 RANGERS TEAM BILLY MARTIN, MGR.
21 19685772 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 512 LARRY MILBOURNE
22 19685773 N8: MISCUT 1975 TOPPS MINI 516 DON HOOD
23 19685774 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 521 DENNIS BLAIR
24 19685775 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 603 LEW KRAUSSE
25 19685776 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 567 JIM SUNDBERG
Total Items:
25
Date Received:
3/6/2012
-Scott
1975 mini's
1954 Wilson Franks
Indy - That is a nicer sub than you give yourself credit for. There are some really hard 8s. If they are the stragglers of your original raw set, it must have been a nice set indeed.
Still waiting on my 620 card sub from 3/2...my fingers are getting cramped from being crossed for so long. :-)
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