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tradedollarnut
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While it may be a bit more of the same from Laura, it does seem that the PNG just isn't gonna stand for anything in this matter:
Laura goes off on PNG
Laura goes off on PNG
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<< <i>Pretty damn sad when the only person in the room with any balls is a woman. >>
I like it. I wouldn't have said it, but I like it.
<< <i>Pretty damn sad when the only person in the room with any balls is a woman. >>
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Maybe both companies need to bid $ 0.00 when the next contract comes up. If the PNG starts feeling it in the pocket book maybe they will take a stand against the "coin doctors". The same could be said about bidding on the ANA title of the "official grading service" if the ANA will not address the issue.
Just a thought.
John Albanese, and Joe O Connor are NOT members (of the PNG). Each of us HATES coin doctoring and coin doctors.
Wasn't John Albanese the founder of NGC and wasn't NGC somehow connected to NCS, the service that resores coins?
THIS IS A QUESTION......I COULD BE WRONG....I AM NOT TRYING TO IMPLY ANYTHING SUBTLE.
(By way TDN.....I appreciate you referencing Laura's comments. I like her. Don't want to get into an MMA cage with her, but I like her.)
<< <i>How much money does PCGS or NGC bid for the title of the "official grading service" of the PNG?
Maybe both companies need to bid $ 0.00 when the next contract comes up. If the PNG starts feeling it in the pocket book maybe they will take a stand against the "coin doctors". The same could be said about bidding on the ANA title of the "official grading service" if the ANA will not address the issue.
Just a thought. >>
or make a policy -
If I was a member, it would be hard writing the renewal check
<< <i>Pretty damn sad when the only person in the room with any balls is a woman. >>
If she's my ex-wife, she has 1 of the 2 I used to own!
<< <i>Pretty damn sad when the only person in the room with any balls is a woman. >>
Yes it is! And I hope she never gets castrated.
If you removed all the coin references in the article, you could make the argument she was talking about a number of the 535 men and women in Washington that represent us.
We need more like her in the hobby!!
<< <i>When a head falls off a quarter, a coin is lasered, or marks are smoothed, a coin is recolored, was it the grading service that did it? I don't think so! The dealers who ruin coins like believe they have the right to do so. At the meeting they were busy doing everything they could to deflect and deny what is really happening. They made "gray areas" into argument points. Do not buy into the PNG membership does not know what coin doctoring is-they do and we all know who the members who do it. But when you have a buddy system in place, nothing ever gets changed. >>
Thanks for fighting the good fight for the hobby Laura.
Just to be clear, during the last bidding process PCGS bid $0.00 to be the official grading service of the PNG.
We were out bid by NGC.
<< <i>How much money does PCGS or NGC bid for the title of the "official grading service" of the PNG?
Just to be clear, during the last bidding process PCGS bid $0.00 to be the official grading service of the PNG.
We were out bid by NGC. >>
If you need a high paid consultant to determine why NGC was able to win the PNG contract against your bid... I'm your man!
I wonder if NGC will bid $1 this year?
<< <i>How much money does PCGS or NGC bid for the title of the "official grading service" of the PNG?
Just to be clear, during the last bidding process PCGS bid $0.00 to be the official grading service of the PNG.
We were out bid by NGC. >>
Sounds like PCGS made the right call. At this point and from my perspective, the endorsement of the PNG looks to be worth less than zero.
I kept wondering, “What did these coins look like BEFORE the doctors mangled them? Were they really that visually challenged?” I was looking at gold, which does not react to that many chemicals, although of course the copper they contain can spot or streak. Still I think that this work was done to remove something more than a few copper spots. It was to make it look bright and shiny so that less informed collector would find it “attractive.”
One of the coins I wanted to find was an 1854-D Three Dollar gold piece. I found a couple. One an EF-45 graded piece had been stripped and recolored to a sickly orange. The other, which TDN probably saw, was graded AU-55 and was totally original. I added that one to my collection and felt lucky to find it, although I had first spotted it on the Internet before the show.
JA sold his interest in NGC long before NCS was founded.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The PNG cannot do anything about coin doctors unless someone registers a complaint against one. Perhaps NGC should do this if they are truly having problems with doctors. As they are PNG members. Naming names in that situation would be very beneficial.
Unfortunately the PNG's doctoring definition was thrown out as it really meant NOTHING. It's impossible to completely define doctoring and the vague language that was reinstituted was more far-reaching anyway.
If we're going to continue to complain about the PNG, someone should just file a complaint with the PNG and it can be dealt with. Until then, the ranting and complaining is useless.
<< <i>How much money does PCGS or NGC bid for the title of the "official grading service" of the PNG?
Just to be clear, during the last bidding process PCGS bid $0.00 to be the official grading service of the PNG.
We were out bid by NGC. >>
Frankly, I think that if PCGS finds a coin in their holder that they deem to be doctored, they should limit the guarantee to refund of face value of the coin.
<< <i>
<< <i>Frankly, I think that if PCGS finds a coin in their holder that they deem to be doctored, they should limit the guarantee to refund of face value of the coin. >>
And screw the customer that bought the coin? That sounds like a great idea...
<< <i>Until then, the ranting and complaining is useless. >>
Not necessarily. Remember what P. T. Barnum said:
Please spell my name right.
There's a sucker born every minute.
Some people make careers out of ranting and raving.....they appeal to weak people - who are not rare - who want to associate with who they percieve as strong people.
<< <i>
<< <i>Until then, the ranting and complaining is useless. >>
Not necessarily. Remember what P. T. Barnum said:
Please spell my name right.
There's a sucker born every minute. >>
Are you inferring that it's just great advertising Adrian?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
In my opinion, by voting this all down, the PNG effectively has no reason to be operational anymore.
(AC - When I joined the PNG, I had to pay a bunch of money to be investigated by them...they do alot of good keeping dishonest dealers out of the PNG. you buy a coin from PNG, you're going to get that coin....no PNG member is just going to up and disappear. To me, that is something to note.)
The denial and sick egos were so thick in the room I do not know how any air got in. Two of the defendants from the PCGS lawsuit were trying to apply their sick twisted retortic on the membership and lead the charge. These numismatic terrorists really believe in their cause.
(AC - I am more persuaded by diatribes that contain less name calling and better spelling. Just a personal preference, however, name calling and "other" kinds of unusual techniques of persuasion can get you noticed and if your ideas or opinions don't get noticed, well then you've wasted your time.)
Even more disgusting to me was that a major retail dealer (I will not throw him under the bus like he did by naming me as an influence for all this) made the motion to dismiss the boards efforts. I am just stunned by this lack of character from him and the entire organization who just want to turn their backs on their sick crooked associates and let them get away with their crimes.
(AC - if he lacks character and you are for cleaning up the industry, why not name him. Truth is a complete defense.)
It is totally irrelevant about what the the grading services have done or do now. Coin doctoring has NOTHING to do with them in that regard. Duh yes, they are supposed to catch doctored coins. However: Hey idiots and scum boys: COIN DOCTORING IS FRAUD PERIOD.
(AC - You have to define what coin doctoring is in order to control it or to call it fraud. Is a professional public service that "conserves" coins committing fraud? Also, I'm not sure that I agree that coin doctoring is fraud. If that were the case, the prisons would be full of people who restore anything like pianos, side boards and 8 track players.)
YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO VIOLATE YOUR CONTRACT WITH THE GRADING SERVICES AND SUBMIT ALTERED COINS. HELLO?? ARE YOU ALL TOO STUPID TO READ?
(AC - If you submit a coin and didn't doctor it yourself and didn't know that it was doctored, I'd be surprised if you are violating your contract.)
The dealers who ruin coins like believe they have the right to do so.
(AC - they're coins, not babies. If you want to ruin a coin and you own it, it's your right. This is still the USA, not Cuba.)
At the meeting they were busy doing everything they could to deflect and deny what is really happening. They made "gray areas" into argument points. Do not buy into the PNG membership does not know what coin doctoring is-they do and we all know who the members who do it. But when you have a buddy system in place, nothing ever gets changed.
(AC - buddies do exist in any business. I would like to see Laura's definition of coin doctoring. Maybe it will be good enough for the PNG to adopt it. She does seem to have a way with words.)
Unfortunately, the group does harbor many numismatic terrorists. There is just a decent size faction embedded that has total bullying power over the rest.
(AC - One man's terrorist is anothere man's freedom fighter....."Bullying power"....yes, a good phrase to define one kind of offensive talk.)
This organization has clearly now disgraced itself to the point of being a boys social club that has an anti grading services attitude. I would expect that any decent member who cares about the subject of coin doctring will quit especially since there is loud and vocal group who clearly feel it is ok.
(AC - While I am probably no longer a PNG member - I don't deal in coins anymore - I would be interested in hearing PNGs side.)
Here is a little fact as to how much the PNG does NOT mean: myself, John Albanese, and Joe O Connor are NOT members.
(AC - it's easier to change an organization from the inside than from the outside. Also, I think it might be important to know why you're not members but go to their meetings.)
How the hell is any collector going to be able to trust ANY PNG dealer now that they are saying coin doctoring is ok?
(AC - I would be very surprised to hear that the PNG says coin doctoring is ok.)
Litter chatrooms and coin related trade papers with letters.
(AC - I think all ethical dealers would be wise to post to chatrooms to voice and defend their opinions. One suggestion is though to bring your flame retardant suits.)
A lot of people seem to think I am making all this noise for advertising.
(AC - Only Laura knows her motivations and anyone that accuses her of making all this noice for advertising is simply speculating.)
WRONG! First, Legend does not need new business and I get enough press from my day job. If I want to advertise, unlike others who want free exposure, I pay for it.
(AC - seems to be a problem here.....a business that does not need new business wouldn't be advertising at all.)
I am proud that I HAVE done my share to help force some change and sent a few docs off to dealing differently.
(AC - I like Laura, I really do. Many New Jerseyans have an honesty about them....I know, I'm one of them. So, when I say "I would like to know more specifically what she had done to help force some change" I mean it. Maybe she could give some ideas to others on how to help out in this area. I think while we disagree about some points, I do think badly AT'd coins need to be outed; I see education as the solution, Laura sees other ways of solving the problem. I'd like to know what she has done. I know she educated PCGS about puttied saints.)
Had someone not stepped up about coin docs and gradeflation, this hobby was in serious danger of being destroyed, totally destroyed.
(AC - No, I don't think so. No one has single handedly saved the coin business. Coins are too cool for people to just stop wanting them regardless of what anyone or any group does or doesn't do.)
Most dealers used to just say, "if a coin has been worked on, don't buy and move on". That was NOT stopping the situation. Good WILL triumph over these evil people. We will win.
(AC - If "we will win" means coin doctoring is going away, I'd like to see that happen. I'm not holding my breath. I've seen the nature of man and it isn't all shiny happy people. And besides, if no one bought doctored coins, how long do you think they would continue getting doctored?)
Coins are a treasure to me and it should be a crime to hurt them. If other dealers want to be chicken, thats their right, I have never backed down from losers.
(AC - Coins are a treasure, for sure, but hurting coins shouldn't be a crime. Hurting children and innocent people should be crimes...we have enough people in prison. I don't think we need to start putting coin doctors in with rapists. Additionally, people who have opinions that differ from yours are not necessarily "losers", sometimes they just see things differently than you currently do. Sometimes, if you are seeking the truth, those people who oppose you might get you to see that you were wrong but if everyone who opposses your point of view is seen by you as a loser, you will never hear what they are trying to say. Finally, I know I don't want people to see me as a loser even if I believe that a $20 Lib without copper spots is better than a $20 Lib with copper spots.)
Coin doctoring MUST be stopped.
(AC - I think it would be good to reduce the number of classic coins that are ruined by bad coin doctoring but if you want to blow torch some Kennedy Halves, I promise you, I won't break out with beads of sweat on my brow.)
<< <i>I don't know much about PNG politics, but I do know that the coin doctors have ruined so many older coins that it's enough to make me sick. I was looking for early gold at the FUN show at the bourse and in the auction. The number of coins that were in "genuine" or "net graded" holders because of “improper cleaning” and other “enhancement techniques” was sickening. Added to that were numerous older pieces, which had grades, that had had extensive work done on them.
I kept wondering, “What did these coins look like BEFORE the doctors mangled them? Were they really that visually challenged?” I was looking at gold, which does not react to that many chemicals, although of course the copper they contain can spot or streak. Still I think that this work was done to remove something more than a few copper spots. It was to make it look bright and shiny so that less informed collector would find it “attractive.”
One of the coins I wanted to find was an 1854-D Three Dollar gold piece. I found a couple. One an EF-45 graded piece had been stripped and recolored to a sickly orange. The other, which TDN probably saw, was graded AU-55 and was totally original. I added that one to my collection and felt lucky to find it, although I had first spotted it on the Internet before the show. >>
Bill - The biggest group of numismatic abortions I have seen have been Heraldic Eagle Bust $s in AU. Fully 90% of the ones I've seen imo were either cleaned, bleached, dipped and stripped, AT'd with a bluish gunmetal grey tint, and / or net graded. Very few of them were original, and I've seen four in the last eight years that were nice enough to be in my collection.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Please do us all a favor and start a thread showing the differences between the 4 that were original and the many that weren't. Also, please explain why you deem the four to be original and the others to not be. If you could tell us how you know they were cleaned in the manner that you say they were, that would be good. It would be very educational.
PNG = Pretty Nice Girls
No wonder Laura is not a member !
Stewart
<< <i>PNG = Pretty Nice Girls
No wonder Laura is not a member !
Stewart >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>PNG = Pretty Nice Girls
No wonder Laura is not a member !
Stewart >>
I think it implies multiple interpretations which may or may not have been implied by Stewart... it will probably cause this thread to get bammed.
In my book there are 3 ways to present the issue. The first is deceptive doctoring. This is the lasering, adding/moving metal and adding other substances in an attempt to defraud. This is not acceptable in any way and should be dealt with. There is adding/moving metal not in an attempt to deceive. An example of this is plugging a whole in a stella or removing a mount and sold with full disclosure. What people in the anti-doctoring camp have to realize is that there exist coins out there with problems like holes in them and that there are willing consumers to buy them if repaired. Yes it is ideal to keep coins as original as possible but there are people out there who cannot afford a 100k plus coin and are content with a repaired example. It is in no way an attempt to deceive and is providing a consumer with what they want. Lastly is conservation such as dipping, rinsing or taking off PVC. Again, original is best, however there are a lot of coins out there that are ugly and can be treated without harming their luster. Anyone who has ever sold a 150 year old coin that is white has sold a dipped coin. Is it ideal, no. Do some people want it, absolutely. That being said, done correctly it is not a complete sin. Because neither side is willing to compromise, we have this giant cluster@#$% that we had at the PNG meeting.
<< <i>Speaking up in an online rant is one thing, speaking up in a room full of people is another. I was sitting one table over from Laura at the meeting and she said nothing. There were plenty of opportunity to speak yet she remained silent besides for a few offhand remarks to her table mates. This is a very important issue that is a major problem. Unfortunately both sides are being stubborn. The "doctors" are asserting their right to do their thing and the people in Laura's camp are saying anything done to a coin is wrong. Thats all a bunch of baloney.
In my book there are 3 ways to present the issue. The first is deceptive doctoring. This is the lasering, adding/moving metal and adding other substances in an attempt to defraud. This is not acceptable in any way and should be dealt with. There is adding/moving metal not in an attempt to deceive. An example of this is plugging a whole in a stella or removing a mount and sold with full disclosure. What people in the anti-doctoring camp have to realize is that there exist coins out there with problems like holes in them and that there are willing consumers to buy them if repaired. Yes it is ideal to keep coins as original as possible but there are people out there who cannot afford a 100k plus coin and are content with a repaired example. It is in no way an attempt to deceive and is providing a consumer with what they want. Lastly is conservation such as dipping, rinsing or taking off PVC. Again, original is best, however there are a lot of coins out there that are ugly and can be treated without harming their luster. Anyone who has ever sold a 150 year old coin that is white has sold a dipped coin. Is it ideal, no. Do some people want it, absolutely. That being said, done correctly it is not a complete sin. Because neither side is willing to compromise, we have this giant cluster@#$% that we had at the PNG meeting. >>
Thanks! In my mind's eye, I visualized Laura being very vocal at the meeting... I guess my mind is flawed!
Remember - the strongest opinion that comes out of a committee is usually the opinion of the weakest member.
Solving the doctoring issue will take time. What you are seeing now is the process. I admire those that are taking a stand against it and support their efforts.
<< <i>If I was an invited guest, I would have been polite too.
Remember - the strongest opinion that comes out of a committee is usually the opinion of the weakest member.
Solving the doctoring issue will take time. What you are seeing now is the process. I admire those that are taking a stand against it and support their efforts. >>
It is a process and what happened was a rash overreaction. Instead of making a well thought out decision, they were forced into fast action by the anti-doctoring mob. Had the mob been patient, something good might have come of this. Unfortunately that was not the case and we have to deal with the consequences. Eventually the real problem will be dealt with.
I want to edit this to add, I am a PNG member and am against practices designed to defraud consumers.
<< <i>
<< <i>If I was an invited guest, I would have been polite too.
Remember - the strongest opinion that comes out of a committee is usually the opinion of the weakest member.
Solving the doctoring issue will take time. What you are seeing now is the process. I admire those that are taking a stand against it and support their efforts. >>
It is a process and what happened was a rash overreaction. Instead of making a well thought out decision, they were forced into fast action by the anti-doctoring mob. Had the mob been patient, something good might have come of this. Unfortunately that was not the case and we have to deal with the consequences. Eventually the real problem will be dealt with. >>
If I wanted to join the "anti-doctoring mob", who would I have been seated with at the PNG meeting?
<< <i>
<< <i>If I was an invited guest, I would have been polite too.
Remember - the strongest opinion that comes out of a committee is usually the opinion of the weakest member.
Solving the doctoring issue will take time. What you are seeing now is the process. I admire those that are taking a stand against it and support their efforts. >>
It is a process and what happened was a rash overreaction. Instead of making a well thought out decision, they were forced into fast action by the anti-doctoring mob. Had the mob been patient, something good might have come of this. Unfortunately that was not the case and we have to deal with the consequences. Eventually the real problem will be dealt with.
I want to edit this to add, I am a PNG member and am against practices designed to defraud consumers. >>
I don't think the PNG was forced into anything. And as far as the "mob been patient, something good might have come of this.", the PNG has had a VERY long time to act proactively on this subject, but has not done so.
I see no reason for Legend to ever be a PNG member. It's a fairly useless organization in my opinion.
<< <i>Laura had her meeting with the PNG where she was very vocal. About a year ago. So far, nothing has come of it.
I see no reason for Legend to ever be a PNG member. It's a fairly useless organization in my opinion. >>
Wasn't that a meeting with the board? I would pay to see her go toe to toe with the "named parties"
For the Dr's to say it is the TPG's responsibility is like saying that the banks could securitize crap, hiding the true value and risks through fraudulent paperwork, and then blame the ratings agencies (Moody's, S&P) for giving it a AAA rating.
Would love to see NGC zero bid the PNG when the contract expires.
I would say 95% of the PNG is against coin-doctoring. However, adopting a definition would do nothing against coin doctors. In fact, it was useless.
Also, as the PNG has told Laura and mentioned in the meeting at least 5 times, the PNG is a reactive organization. There's nothing that they can do to be proactive in this situation.
If someone would lodge a formal complaint against the "doctors" the PNG could actually do something about it.
I'm not even fully supportive of the way the PNG has handled this, BUT Laura is arguing until she's blue in the face and there is NOTHING that the PNG can do at this point.
It would probably be more helpful if Laura would lodge a complaint against a member or suggest some ways in which the PNG can come out against the doctors.
... if ya don't stand for somethin' , you'll fall for anything.
<< <i>In my book there are 3 ways to present the issue. The first is deceptive doctoring. This is the lasering, adding/moving metal and adding other substances in an attempt to defraud. This is not acceptable in any way and should be dealt with. There is adding/moving metal not in an attempt to deceive. An example of this is plugging a whole in a stella or removing a mount and sold with full disclosure. What people in the anti-doctoring camp have to realize is that there exist coins out there with problems like holes in them and that there are willing consumers to buy them if repaired. Yes it is ideal to keep coins as original as possible but there are people out there who cannot afford a 100k plus coin and are content with a repaired example. It is in no way an attempt to deceive and is providing a consumer with what they want. Lastly is conservation such as dipping, rinsing or taking off PVC. Again, original is best, however there are a lot of coins out there that are ugly and can be treated without harming their luster. Anyone who has ever sold a 150 year old coin that is white has sold a dipped coin. Is it ideal, no. Do some people want it, absolutely. That being said, done correctly it is not a complete sin. Because neither side is willing to compromise, we have this giant cluster@#$% that we had at the PNG meeting. >>
Spot on!
<< <i>I fear that if the industry does not self regulate, the government will step in and do it. I don't think that is a scenario that any parties want.
For the Dr's to say it is the TPG's responsibility is like saying that the banks could securitize crap, hiding the true value and risks through fraudulent paperwork, and then blame the ratings agencies (Moody's, S&P) for giving it a AAA rating.
Would love to see NGC zero bid the PNG when the contract expires. >>
Actually, I don't like the idea that bond-rating agencies were so lax in their own due diligence that they were fooled. Aren't they world-class experts in grading of securities? A shame that they don't have a buy-back policy.
Am I an apologist for coin doctors? Sometimes. Am I a coin doctor? By some people's definition I am sure that I am. Including my own, at least based on some of the definitions I've heard here. BTW I don't move metal. But, in the words of Ernie Hudson in Ghostbusters "I've seen some stuff that would turn you white".
Am I a born-again purist? I prefer to deal with the world as it is, rather than rail against the inevitable frailties, frauds, foibles and fumbles that the flesh is heir to. I tell my few customers, who know that I too was a world-class numismatist, that I will use what I know (and I have been fooled) to protect them to the limit of my not inconsiderable but still limited ability. Am I another brick in the Wall of Silence? I will not rat out my friends, so guilty as charged. But I will not let my friends or customers buy these coins.
Every time you build a better mousetrap, someone will breed a smarter mouse. "Same as it ever was...."
When I taught at the ANA Summer Seminar last Summer I attempted to show some primitive doctoring techniques to grading classes. I was encouraged by all the instructors with one exception. He is an ideological purist (and a very talented numismatist). Perhaps his class would have been contaminated by my information. I was actually trying to help.
Blah, blah, blah....
"Here's to the new boss, same as the old boss... We won't get fooled again".
When Alexander the Great entered Asia Minor he was shown the Gordian Knot, an incredibly compicated and complex tangle of rope that was surely intended to defy analysis. The (no pun intended) legend was that the person who could unravel it would hold the key to unlock all of Asia.
Alexander's solution: he took out his sword and cut through it. And he used his sword to conquer in the same way. A pretty neat allegory.
As we know, he died very young. And his empire broke apart.
But his simplistic solution worked for a while.
Reading posts here I sometimes think that I am attending a meeting of the numismatic Tea Party. Elements of truth in their position? Surely, but buttressed by elements of quasi-rationally-based hysteria.
Boy, do I expect some crap for the above paragraph!
There's a line from Yeats' "Second Coming"
"The best lack all conviction, and the worst are full of passionate intensity..."
Welcome to the sausage factory. No one can handle the Truth, including me. I fumble to find a few truths to guide me, and I'm as scared as anyone else when I find my perceptions incomplete and my conclusions flawed.
His eye may be on the sparrow, but puttied gold is probably not on His to-do list today.
If you're not confused, you haven't been paying enough attention.
I've related this before. The woman whom I loved most in this world, and whom I believe loved me most, gave me Post-Its that read "Often wrong, but never in doubt". Take it to heart. It only took me ten years to really get it, and I'm still working on the issue.
<< <i>
<< <i>I fear that if the industry does not self regulate, the government will step in and do it. I don't think that is a scenario that any parties want.
For the Dr's to say it is the TPG's responsibility is like saying that the banks could securitize crap, hiding the true value and risks through fraudulent paperwork, and then blame the ratings agencies (Moody's, S&P) for giving it a AAA rating.
Would love to see NGC zero bid the PNG when the contract expires. >>
Actually, I don't like the idea that bond-rating agencies were so lax in their own due diligence that they were fooled. Aren't they world-class experts in grading of securities? A shame that they don't have a buy-back policy.
Am I an apologist for coin doctors? Sometimes. Am I a coin doctor? By some people's definition I am sure that I am. Including my own, at least based on some of the definitions I've heard here. BTW I don't move metal. But, in the words of Ernie Hudson in Ghostbusters "I've seen some stuff that would turn you white".
Am I a born-again purist? I prefer to deal with the world as it is, rather than rail against the inevitable frailties, frauds, foibles and fumbles that the flesh is heir to. I tell my few customers, who know that I too was a world-class numismatist, that I will use what I know (and I have been fooled) to protect them to the limit of my not inconsiderable but still limited ability. Am I another brick in the Wall of Silence? I will not rat out my friends, so guilty as charged. But I will not let my friends or customers buy these coins.
Every time you build a better mousetrap, someone will breed a smarter mouse. "Same as it ever was...."
When I taught at the ANA Summer Seminar last Summer I attempted to show some primitive doctoring techniques to grading classes. I was encouraged by all the instructors with one exception. He is an ideological purist (and a very talented numismatist). Perhaps his class would have been contaminated by my information. I was actually trying to help.
Blah, blah, blah....
"Here's to the new boss, same as the old boss... We won't get fooled again".
When Alexander the Great entered Asia Minor he was shown the Gordian Knot, an incredibly compicated and complex tangle of rope that was surely intended to defy analysis. The (no pun intended) legend was that the person who could unravel it would hold the key to unlock all of Asia.
Alexander's solution: he took out his sword and cut through it. And he used his sword to conquer in the same way. A pretty neat allegory.
As we know, he died very young. And his empire broke apart.
But his simplistic solution worked for a while.
Reading posts here I sometimes think that I am attending a meeting of the numismatic Tea Party. Elements of truth in their position? Surely, but buttressed by elements of quasi-rationally-based hysteria.
Boy, do I expect some crap for the above paragraph!
There's a line from Yeats' "Second Coming"
"The best lack all conviction, and the worst are full of passionate intensity..."
Welcome to the sausage factory. No one can handle the Truth, including me. I fumble to find a few truths to guide me, and I'm as scared as anyone else when I find my perceptions incomplete and my conclusions flawed.
His eye may be on the sparrow, but puttied gold is probably not on His to-do list today.
If you're not confused, you haven't been paying enough attention.
I've related this before. The woman whom I loved most in this world, and whom I believe loved me most, gave me Post-Its that read "Often wrong, but never in doubt". Take it to heart. It only took me ten years to really get it, and I'm still working on the issue.
Can you post this again in 25 words or less?
I think the brokerage houses told the agencies that if they didn't get the grades on the securities that they wanted that they would take their business elsewhere. The rating agencies said OK.
PCGS, on the other hand, is telling the Dr's (who BTW probably submit huge sums of money to the TPG's) that they no longer want their business.
I don't have a problem with anything else you said and I'm pretty hard core. As long as there is no intent to deceive and you are open and honest with what you are doing, I don't have a problem with it.
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Can you post this again in 25 words or less? >>
LOL, no. Buy a thesaurus, a history book, and some Alderall for that limited attention span thingy. I am currently taking Pepto for my logorrhea.
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LOL, no. Buy a thesaurus, a history book, and some Alderall for that limited attention span thingy. I am currently taking Pepto for my logorrhea.
My comprehension, knowledge of history and attention span are fine... but with all the tangents, maybe I should invest in a trig textbook?