WOW !!! UNBELIEVABLE !!! A very sad day in the numismatic world, & just before Christmas too. I never knew Cameron on a personal level, but he was one of the koolest guys to deal with on the BST & through private messages. I purchased some nice graded Lincoln cents & a few other things from him on ebay. He will be truly missed...
I wasn't sure how to respond to this thread. I feel sad and melancholy and so I posted this tribute: M*A*S*H* theme
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Here are some of my thoughts on what has happened over the past few days. I don't want to argue them. They are my opinion and if you disagree, I respect that but I am not interested in a debate.
I would caution people not to believe they understand what went on in Cameron's life, business, or mind. None of us know although many posts here indicate that many members think they know. I will say that extreme situations in life, whether they involve a human being, a machine, or nature in general, are almost always the result of the confluence of multiple circumstances, often in a way that magnifies the individual effects. So I would almost bet that Cameron faced more than one demon, probably more than 2, and the effects were probably much more than most of us can imagine. I do not think that he was weak as some have said.
Cameron was bright, motivated, and from all accounts, a man with a background rooted in ethical, moral, and responsible behavior. I urge you not to call him a coward. Sure, that is one possible explanation but I don't believe it is likely the true explanation (which we shall never know). When one's mind is twisted to the point that it seems logical to call it quits for good, it is impossible for those of us outside to follow the logic. I would suspect that a bright and responsible person like Cameron saw it in his mind as somehow best for his family as well. I don't think he would just take the selfish way out. Calling it selfish or cowardly is a good suicide hotline technique but I don't think it often applies to the best and brightest who somehow find themselves where Cammy was.
If indeed his business failings were a part of what drove him over the edge, and they probably were, then we can conclude that he was indeed honest, moral, and ethical to the end. A scammer, as some have called him, wouldn't have cared.
I know that lots of us wish he would have asked for help. Usually, when people don't it is because it is "too complicated" or "you wouldn't understand" or else there is something embarrassing they don't want to admit. Like I said in the first paragraph, there was probably more than one thing bothering him and perhaps one of them was something embarrassing, perhaps something as simple as allowing a valuable lot of coins to be lost or stolen (not speculating that this is what happened, just using it as an example)--something he didn't want to admit.
Finally, most of us are older and wiser. It can be hard to remember the idealism and emotional reactions that a man in his 20s may have. I remember I got at DUI when I was about his age. As a responsible law abiding citizen I couldn't fathom what had happened. How did I end up in jail? How did I this? How did I that? Tons of second guessing. I remember going over and over it in my mind all weekend long. It was like the worst thing in the world that could possibly happen, had happened. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't leave the house. Thinking back on it, I can still feel the intensity I felt that weekend but now I realize what an over-reaction it was. Now older and wiser, I realize that I should have relaxed, bit the bullet, and taken my medicine. That is what I had to do anyway but my youth caused me to over-react first. I hope this story comes across as a reminder of how a 20 something year old will react totally differently to a stress than a 40, 50, or 60 something year old and things that are relatively minor in the long run, can seem at the time like they are as important as any global challenge facing the world at the time. Don't forget that he was still looking through 28 year old eyes.
Remember that we have lost a friend and the world has lost a talent. Don't judge or criticize unless you are without faults yourself. My thoughts now turn to his kids. I hope there are friends here who will keep us appraised on how they are doing.
i had seen the recent threads of bad transactions and it reminded me of about a year or two ago when another thread came up about plat sets not getting delivered or something similar. i saw it as a person hitting a rough time in their life(which we all go through). what i did was find his coins for sale and bought some slabs from him. he sent them right out to me and when i got them i let him know i got them. in talking to him i told him i wasn`t really looking for the coins but just wanted to help out with the cash flow. he immediately offered to take them back for a refund. i refused his offer. in his PM`s to me he said he was working things out and all was good.
i`m not saying the threads here was the cause but may have contributed to all this. what happened to compassion for fellow man?
i was shocked that things would come to this and cannot put this out of my mind. christmas will not be the same this year.
Cameron was bright, motivated, and from all accounts, a man with a background rooted in ethical, moral, and responsible behavior. I urge you not to call him a coward. Sure, that is one possible explanation but I don't believe it is likely the true explanation (which we shall never know). When one's mind is twisted to the point that it seems logical to call it quits for good, it is impossible for those of us outside to follow the logic. I would suspect that a bright and responsible person like Cameron saw it in his mind as somehow best for his family as well. I don't think he would just take the selfish way out. Calling it selfish or cowardly is a good suicide hotline technique but I don't think it often applies to the best and brightest who somehow find themselves where Cammy was.
If indeed his business failings were a part of what drove him over the edge, and they probably were, then we can conclude that he was indeed honest, moral, and ethical to the end. A scammer, as some have called him, wouldn't have cared.
I know that lots of us wish he would have asked for help. Usually, when people don't it is because it is "too complicated" or "you wouldn't understand" or else there is something embarrassing they don't want to admit. Like I said in the first paragraph, there was probably more than one thing bothering him and perhaps one of them was something embarrassing, perhaps something as simple as allowing a valuable lot of coins to be lost or stolen (not speculating that this is what happened, just using it as an example)--something he didn't want to admit.
Finally, most of us are older and wiser. It can be hard to remember the idealism and emotional reactions that a man in his 20s may have. I remember I got at DUI when I was about his age. As a responsible law abiding citizen I couldn't fathom what had happened. How did I end up in jail? How did I this? How did I that? Tons of second guessing. I remember going over and over it in my mind all weekend long. It was like the worst thing in the world that could possibly happen, had happened. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't leave the house. Thinking back on it, I can still feel the intensity I felt that weekend but now I realize what an over-reaction it was. Now older and wiser, I realize that I should have relaxed, bit the bullet, and taken my medicine. That is what I had to do anyway but my youth caused me to over-react first. I hope this story comes across as a reminder of how a 20 something year old will react totally differently to a stress than a 40, 50, or 60 something year old and things that are relatively minor in the long run, can seem at the time like they are as important as any global challenge facing the world at the time. Don't forget that he was still looking through 28 year old eyes.
Remember that we have lost a friend and the world has lost a talent. Don't judge or criticize unless you are without faults yourself. My thoughts now turn to his kids. I hope there are friends here who will keep us appraised on how they are doing.
RIP, Cameron.
-Jerry
Jerry - Thank you for your incredible thoughtful comments. However, a very successful attorney friend who through his many referrals, played a key role in my starting my accounting practice, also had plenty of business problems. A scammer told him that he could help his clients by 'investing' his client trust fund account. My friend was dumb enough to believe him. The guy went south. As a result, some people in their 80s lost their life savings.
My friend did ten years. His career was ruined. He's out now, but practically speaking, he will never work again. As horrible as this is, my friend, who also had a wife and two young children when this happened, never considered suicide. Rather, he did / is doing the best he can with a horrid situation which will taint him for the rest of his life.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i> Jerry - Thank you for your incredible thoughtful comments. However, a very successful attorney friend who through his many referrals, played a key role in my starting my accounting practice, also had plenty of business problems. A scammer told him that he could help his clients by 'investing' his client trust fund account. My friend was dumb enough to believe him. The guy went south. As a result, some people in their 80s lost their life savings. My friend did ten years. His career was ruined. He's out now, but practically speaking, he will never work again. As horrible as this is, my friend, who also had a wife and two young children when this happened, never considered suicide. Rather, he did / is doing the best he can with a horrid situation which will taint him for the rest of his life. >>
I've been through some pretty tough times myself. I never considered suicide and never would. Thus, I am incapable of understanding what was going on in Cameron's mind, as most of us are. I am sorry for your friend's misfortunes. --Jerry
I haven't been on for a few days (or more) ... it is quiet this morning ... and so I came to see the latest flames and dramas, sprinkled with NEWP's and GtG's.
I just finished reading the thread.
What a very sad situation.
My prayers go out to his family and friends, his wife and his children.
My kids are a little younger than he was, but not much. I deal with young men and women in their 20's and early 30's in my business regularly. I watch them, mentor them, help them (try anyway). I try to watch and listen and understand.
It is sad for me to think of a young and bright individual taking their own life, for any reason.
I do know there is one thing many of us (myself included) do not understand ... and that is what it was like to grow up in a internet-enabled age. An age where "friends" are text messages from a "handle"; people never seen, eyes never penetrated, hands never shook. Because of that, I don't think many of us can understand what small part of the puzzle an internet "coffeeshop" could play, if any, in contributing to a persons depression. In Cameron's case, having watched how he was brought in here, how he was a part of the history and the day-to-day for so long, I can not fathom how it could not have at least some small effect.
I never met Cameron, although before he left for Colorado he lived within 40 miles of me. We were going to meet once years ago ... can't remember what happened and why we didn't. I wish we had. It probably wouldn't have made any difference today, except my loss would feel greater.
For today, I will remember to shake more hands, see more eyes, listen closely to what I see and feel, and follow up to do it again. I need to understand that how I see the world is a culmination of my experiences, and for many that I meet, those experiences are often vastly different. Somewhere in each of our lives, somewhere, there probably is another Cammie. I know I do it now, but I will certainly watch even more closely.
RIP Cameron
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Very well said, Jerry. What many forget is that Cam was so young and had smarts but not savvy. He tried to be perfect, wanted to be a cop, the best grader and an expert on many levels of the coin world. He sustained the teasing here with a great big heart because he LOVED this place and he wasn't going to let the ribbing scare him off. We were all very proud of him when he became a professional grader and then got married. Our "boy" was becoming a man right in front of our eyes and it was a source of satisfaction for me...and I'm certain many others. One huge problem is that he lived on the internet and that can be a VERY dangerous place when you're getting kicked. It's all over with Facebook tragedies and who knows what other arenas. Look at his post count...he was one of the most prolfic posters for years and this was a big part of his world...and it turned on him. I can't begin to comment of the things he was accused of because I know nothing at all about any of it but it had to be killing him inside. Like you said, no one knows what other demons could have been haunting him. Does anyone here air all their problems? Cameron was highly driven and a sequence of failures, bad luck, bad decisions or malfeasance and perhaps personal problems could have hurt him deeply, with no idea how to find help. Yeah...SG is a compassionate guy when you get to the serious stuff. I understand desperation and hopelessness...I've seen it with many people I've known.
Suicide is a horrific answer. I've had numerous friends take that route and there's always anger and tears. But we have to get past the anger and sympathize with the haunting that someone had, especially someone who was relatively naive and not street-smart, and realize that they don't think like older. smarter people and reach out. It's a hard thing to do and I can't imagine what his last days were like. He had to be haunted beyond words and his actions aren't at all justified but they never are when this happens. His family now suffers and Cam's karma is without a home. Very sad and disturbing.
Well said, Jay (SaintGuru)! I hadn't met Cameron but had certainly heard about him here and elsewhere. Your narrative brought tears to my eyes. It is such a tragedy, for this young man and especially for his family. My thoughts and prayers are with them.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>Very well said, Jerry. What many forget is that Cam was so young and had smarts but not savvy. He tried to be perfect, wanted to be a cop, the best grader and an expert on many levels of the coin world. He sustained the teasing here with a great big heart because he LOVED this place and he wasn't going to let the ribbing scare him off. We were all very proud of him when he became a professional grader and then got married. Our "boy" was becoming a man right in front of our eyes and it was a source of satisfaction for me...and I'm certain many others. One huge problem is that he lived on the internet and that can be a VERY dangerous place when you're getting kicked. It's all over with Facebook tragedies and who knows what other arenas. Look at his post count...he was one of the most prolfic posters for years and this was a big part of his world...and it turned on him. I can't begin to comment of the things he was accused of because I know nothing at all about any of it but it had to be killing him inside. Like you said, no one knows what other demons could have been haunting him. Does anyone here air all their problems? Cameron was highly driven and a sequence of failures, bad luck, bad decisions or malfeasance and perhaps personal problems could have hurt him deeply, with no idea how to find help. Yeah...SG is a compassionate guy when you get to the serious stuff. I understand desperation and hopelessness...I've seen it with many people I've known.
Suicide is a horrific answer. I've had numerous friends take that route and there's always anger and tears. But we have to get past the anger and sympathize with the haunting that someone had, especially someone who was relatively naive and not street-smart, and realize that they don't think like older. smarter people and reach out. It's a hard thing to do and I can't imagine what his last days were like. He had to be haunted beyond words and his actions aren't at all justified but they never are when this happens. His family now suffers and Cam's karma is without a home. Very sad and disturbing. >>
wow I remember the ribbing, kidding, alot of us were guilty but at the same time I thought we were only having fun with him. I made it a point to pm him every chance I got, now looking back I see that was every thanks giving and xmas. at those times I made it known to him how much I respected him and how much I was glad to know him and I would brag at a latter date "how I knew him when".
cannot do that now, I do not understand why, but will not guess on it. those who know me know I lost my sister in 1991 right after xmas, after a failed attempt just before xmas. it devastated the family, and I till this day wish she just told me what it would take to make things better.
sometimes it just cannot be done. I miss her, I will deff miss Cameron and my condolances go out to family-I will miss my convos with the sheriff.
I just heard about this last night through a friend.
I always had a great deal of respect, and hope, for Cameron. I used to interact with Cameron, quite a bit, before his gig at ICG. Oftentimes propping him up from some of the ribbing he was subjected to. Since then, I had other areas of life which truly kept me away from numismatics. I agree with a few posters whose wisdom suggested that this was a consequence of a person who kept failing at trying to make things right.
My deepest sympathies to his family. I think Numismatics lost one of it's true lights.
Godspeed, Cameron.
Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
I have been out of touch over the holidays and just read through this thread.
Terrible news about CK's death.
I remember CK being an active poster on the forums years back as a very young man. He went to work for ICG in Colorado as a grader. He moved to the Denver area, started his new job, bought a new car, eventually married and had two children, all in his early to mid 20's.
He left ICG and became a coin dealer. He also worked for the police department in Nederland, Colorado [a small town outside of Boulder, Colorado].
He apparently had difficulties [in his coin dealership business; and it is possible in other areas of his life].
At 28 he took his own life, leaving his wife and children without a husband and a father.
Very, very sad.
Unless one had dealings with CK on a daily basis as a friend, coworker or family member, one would not know what his troubles were. His friends, coworkers and family may not have even known.
However, I can see where his life path could easily have led him to the point where he took his life. He had accolades bestowed upon him in the hobby as a YN. He was friendly, affable and known by many. He obtained a job as a coin grader [how difficult would it be for someone to get such a job?; pretty difficult I bet]. He went to coin shows and rubbed elbows with many people who are well known in the hobby and who are very successful.
Maybe he had plans to become a well known and successful player in the hobby; and maybe he wanted quickly. How easy is it for someone to become well known and successful in any area of human endeavor at an early age? Not very easy at all.
He also took on the responsibility of a spouse and two children. For those of you who have married and had children at a young age, you know first hand how hard that is.
He left ICG and went into business on his own as a coin dealer. I suspect one of the most important requirements for becoming a successful self employed coin dealer is "large amounts of capital". CK may not have had same and thus did not have the resources to pay for all of the expenses of running a business.
The responsibility of being a husband and father, of owning and running a coin dealership business, of working for a police department and of trying to live up to lofty expectations that you place on yourself and that others place on you, all while being a young man in your 20's is something which could very easily overwhelm a person.
Wisdom, experience, morals, ethics, values, a strong sense of self and a support network of persons you can turn to and rely upon are things which can help a person:
1. avoid getting into trouble in the first place; or
2. get out of trouble once you are in it.
In the absence of the above, one can easily become overwhelmed by what life throws at you [and by the messes you make for yourself]. Loneliness, isolation, depression, etc. can creep up and drag you down into self destructive choices, the ultimate being suicide.
Suicide is irreversible and is something which allows one to escape from troubles which may seem overwhelming and insurmountable [but in reality are not].
To the extent CK was in financial trouble due to his coin dealership business, he could have just closed down the business. Outstanding liabilities to customers could have been dealt with one by one, over time. In a worst case scenario, these liabilities could be reduced or eliminated through bankruptcy. New jobs and career opportunities both inside and outside of the hobby would pop up and be available. If CK's personal life [marriage] was in trouble, it could be worked on and saved, or ended through divorce.
Life has ups and downs and the path you set out on as a 20 something adult is rarely the path you stay on for your entire adult life.
It is a shame that CK ended up having the troubles he had. It is even more of s shame that he was unwilling or incapable of taking some action short of suicide [which is an act of cowardice when one has complete physical and mental faculties with which to meet and discharge the responsibilities you owe to the family that depends upon you] to face, deal with and resolve his troubles.
A life full of promise, cut short at 28 years of age. Very sad indeed.
RIP Cameron and may god bless and care for your wife and children.
Well,you just never know. Some folks have tried successfully and unsuccessfully to end it all even for the less shameful act of being arrested and jailed for public intox, which would seem to pale in comparison to what CK had to deal with. Some of us are born with a lot thicker skin than are others.
My association with Cameron was brief but memorable. In 2004 he published a lengthy essay I wrote on the history of the creation of the St. Gauden's gold pieces, in three parts in his Young Numismatist Quarterly. I still have the issues. Not long after well fell out of touch. It was my fault. I was beginning college at the time, and the cost pretty much killed my activity in the hobby for the next six years, and I was pretty much a lurker here.
But I never forgot the honor he gave me by being my first publication. Such a shame what has happened. This has been a particularly bad year for suicide, especially amongst young people like myself, who have borne the brunt of the embattled economy. I myself was laid off a year ago, and I've only begun to find my footing again. It was a bad time, and I admit having dark thoughts. I eventually sought help, and just speaking to somebody a hour every couple of weeks to a month did wonders for me. That's all it takes I believe.
I can only hope that his death might further awareness of the dangers of depression and suffering in silence. There remains a grave stigma against any perceived disturbance of the mind, when really it is more abnormal NOT to experience some kind of psychological distress. We must quit being so damn stoic, and instead seek help when we need it. Cameron's loss is a great one and I think if he would have talked to somebody he might have seen that, instead of resorting to what he did...his problems are now over, but he has stirred up many, many more in his self imposed absence.
<< <i>Id appreciate it if you remove that article-I do not need to see my friend clowned in such a manner >>
The article opens old, deep and painful wounds but there is no "clowning" around. The details stated in the article to date have proven to be factual and the monetary amount in question is no laughing matter to those involved.
Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>Id appreciate it if you remove that article-I do not need to see my friend clowned in such a manner >>
The article opens old, deep and painful wounds but there is no "clowning" around. The details stated in the article to date have proven to be factual and the monetary amount in question is no laughing matter to those involved. >>
I agree.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
<< <i>Id appreciate it if you remove that article-I do not need to see my friend clowned in such a manner >>
I dunno the guy, but I know the mean spiritedness that still exists on here.
Fault the guy for his mistakes, but I hope the article also serves to remind the lynch mob on here not to go too far. >>
I've never said a word one way or another about this incident. It's sad that a young man took his own life, but don't blame these boards for that. Cameron was an adult who unfortunately saw no other way out of the predicament he was in except to end his life and the responsibillity for that lies with him. My guess is that comments on these boards had very little to do with that unltimate and tragic decision.
JJ
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
To blame the boards or board members for a cowardly, selfish act upon themselves makes me sick. I don't remember anyone telling Cameron to do what he did?
<< <i>To blame the boards or board members for a cowardly, selfish act upon themselves makes me sick. I don't remember anyone telling Cameron to do what he did? >>
....and, here we go again.....
Ya know, due to the problems and some of the ripoffs, there may have been people telling him to do what he did. You don't know that. But, as already mentioned, many people take things WAY TOO FAR on these boards....some of them think they are being funny, some of them are weak and just like to pile on thinking it will make them more popular, and others are just plain mean. There is no reason to be as mean-spirited, particularly if one wasn't directly affected, as some of the folks on the board are.
Everyone is different. If a person bullies someone, by being Mr Tuffguy, to the point that he does something like this, does that make the person feel good?
<< <i>To blame the boards or board members for a cowardly, selfish act upon themselves makes me sick. I don't remember anyone telling Cameron to do what he did? >>
....and, here we go again.....
Ya know, due to the problems and some of the ripoffs, there may have been people telling him to do what he did. You don't know that. But, as already mentioned, many people take things WAY TOO FAR on these boards....some of them think they are being funny, some of them are weak and just like to pile on thinking it will make them more popular, and others are just plain mean. There is no reason to be as mean-spirited, particularly if one wasn't directly affected, as some of the folks on the board are.
Everyone is different. If a person bullies someone, by being Mr Tuffguy, to the point that he does something like this, does that make the person feel good? >>
I do not think that anyone is trying to be "funny" or "bullying". This article was written by a Coin World writer. I guess it COULD be considered callous, but to be honest with you, this is relevant to the post. If any one of us had committed such a crime without killing ourselves, then everybody would be in agreeableness that this is unacceptable, PERIOD. It is unfortunate that Cameron was a respected numismatist, but to be honest with you, the whole idea that people are taking up for an individual that took advantage of so many people, really makes me sick. It was his choice to take the low road pure and simple. I am sorry if I have offended people with my comments. -Dan
<< <i>To blame the boards or board members for a cowardly, selfish act upon themselves makes me sick. I don't remember anyone telling Cameron to do what he did? >>
I recall in the threads about this issue that were pulled a few suggested others might take a like route and actually said so. It was disgusting. I know why those comments were made with regard to inappropriate comments posted elsewhere by this other individual but the response here was simply unacceptable.
<< <i>To blame the boards or board members for a cowardly, selfish act upon themselves makes me sick. I don't remember anyone telling Cameron to do what he did? >>
I recall in the threads about this issue that were pulled a few suggested others might take a like route and actually said so. It was disgusting. I know why those comments were made with regard to inappropriate comments posted elsewhere by this other individual but the response here was simply unacceptable.
Comments
Prayers go out to his wife and children, and family and friends...
I am heartbroken for his wife and children.
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
I would caution people not to believe they understand what went on in Cameron's life, business, or mind. None of us know although many posts here indicate that many members think they know. I will say that extreme situations in life, whether they involve a human being, a machine, or nature in general, are almost always the result of the confluence of multiple circumstances, often in a way that magnifies the individual effects. So I would almost bet that Cameron faced more than one demon, probably more than 2, and the effects were probably much more than most of us can imagine. I do not think that he was weak as some have said.
Cameron was bright, motivated, and from all accounts, a man with a background rooted in ethical, moral, and responsible behavior. I urge you not to call him a coward. Sure, that is one possible explanation but I don't believe it is likely the true explanation (which we shall never know). When one's mind is twisted to the point that it seems logical to call it quits for good, it is impossible for those of us outside to follow the logic. I would suspect that a bright and responsible person like Cameron saw it in his mind as somehow best for his family as well. I don't think he would just take the selfish way out. Calling it selfish or cowardly is a good suicide hotline technique but I don't think it often applies to the best and brightest who somehow find themselves where Cammy was.
If indeed his business failings were a part of what drove him over the edge, and they probably were, then we can conclude that he was indeed honest, moral, and ethical to the end. A scammer, as some have called him, wouldn't have cared.
I know that lots of us wish he would have asked for help. Usually, when people don't it is because it is "too complicated" or "you wouldn't understand" or else there is something embarrassing they don't want to admit. Like I said in the first paragraph, there was probably more than one thing bothering him and perhaps one of them was something embarrassing, perhaps something as simple as allowing a valuable lot of coins to be lost or stolen (not speculating that this is what happened, just using it as an example)--something he didn't want to admit.
Finally, most of us are older and wiser. It can be hard to remember the idealism and emotional reactions that a man in his 20s may have. I remember I got at DUI when I was about his age. As a responsible law abiding citizen I couldn't fathom what had happened. How did I end up in jail? How did I this? How did I that? Tons of second guessing. I remember going over and over it in my mind all weekend long. It was like the worst thing in the world that could possibly happen, had happened. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't leave the house. Thinking back on it, I can still feel the intensity I felt that weekend but now I realize what an over-reaction it was. Now older and wiser, I realize that I should have relaxed, bit the bullet, and taken my medicine. That is what I had to do anyway but my youth caused me to over-react first. I hope this story comes across as a reminder of how a 20 something year old will react totally differently to a stress than a 40, 50, or 60 something year old and things that are relatively minor in the long run, can seem at the time like they are as important as any global challenge facing the world at the time. Don't forget that he was still looking through 28 year old eyes.
Remember that we have lost a friend and the world has lost a talent. Don't judge or criticize unless you are without faults yourself. My thoughts now turn to his kids. I hope there are friends here who will keep us appraised on how they are doing.
RIP, Cameron.
-Jerry
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
i`m not saying the threads here was the cause but may have contributed to all this. what happened to compassion for fellow man?
i was shocked that things would come to this and cannot put this out of my mind. christmas will not be the same this year.
Cameron, RIP
2 children.....................
Sad.
he was one of the smartest youth members . i ever met
here in the forum 2004-2005
RIP Cameron
you will be miss
If indeed his business failings were a part of what drove him over the edge, and they probably were, then we can conclude that he was indeed honest, moral, and ethical to the end. A scammer, as some have called him, wouldn't have cared.
I know that lots of us wish he would have asked for help. Usually, when people don't it is because it is "too complicated" or "you wouldn't understand" or else there is something embarrassing they don't want to admit. Like I said in the first paragraph, there was probably more than one thing bothering him and perhaps one of them was something embarrassing, perhaps something as simple as allowing a valuable lot of coins to be lost or stolen (not speculating that this is what happened, just using it as an example)--something he didn't want to admit.
Finally, most of us are older and wiser. It can be hard to remember the idealism and emotional reactions that a man in his 20s may have. I remember I got at DUI when I was about his age. As a responsible law abiding citizen I couldn't fathom what had happened. How did I end up in jail? How did I this? How did I that? Tons of second guessing. I remember going over and over it in my mind all weekend long. It was like the worst thing in the world that could possibly happen, had happened. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't leave the house. Thinking back on it, I can still feel the intensity I felt that weekend but now I realize what an over-reaction it was. Now older and wiser, I realize that I should have relaxed, bit the bullet, and taken my medicine. That is what I had to do anyway but my youth caused me to over-react first. I hope this story comes across as a reminder of how a 20 something year old will react totally differently to a stress than a 40, 50, or 60 something year old and things that are relatively minor in the long run, can seem at the time like they are as important as any global challenge facing the world at the time. Don't forget that he was still looking through 28 year old eyes.
Remember that we have lost a friend and the world has lost a talent. Don't judge or criticize unless you are without faults yourself. My thoughts now turn to his kids. I hope there are friends here who will keep us appraised on how they are doing.
RIP, Cameron.
-Jerry
Jerry - Thank you for your incredible thoughtful comments. However, a very successful attorney friend who through his many referrals, played a key role in my starting my accounting practice, also had plenty of business problems. A scammer told him that he could help his clients by 'investing' his client trust fund account. My friend was dumb enough to believe him. The guy went south. As a result, some people in their 80s lost their life savings.
My friend did ten years. His career was ruined. He's out now, but practically speaking, he will never work again. As horrible as this is, my friend, who also had a wife and two young children when this happened, never considered suicide. Rather, he did / is doing the best he can with a horrid situation which will taint him for the rest of his life.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
<< <i> Jerry - Thank you for your incredible thoughtful comments. However, a very successful attorney friend who through his many referrals, played a key role in my starting my accounting practice, also had plenty of business problems. A scammer told him that he could help his clients by 'investing' his client trust fund account. My friend was dumb enough to believe him. The guy went south. As a result, some people in their 80s lost their life savings. My friend did ten years. His career was ruined. He's out now, but practically speaking, he will never work again. As horrible as this is, my friend, who also had a wife and two young children when this happened, never considered suicide. Rather, he did / is doing the best he can with a horrid situation which will taint him for the rest of his life. >>
I've been through some pretty tough times myself. I never considered suicide and never would. Thus, I am incapable of understanding what was going on in Cameron's mind, as most of us are. I am sorry for your friend's misfortunes. --Jerry
I just finished reading the thread.
What a very sad situation.
My prayers go out to his family and friends, his wife and his children.
My kids are a little younger than he was, but not much. I deal with young men and women in their 20's and early 30's in my business regularly. I watch them, mentor them, help them (try anyway). I try to watch and listen and understand.
It is sad for me to think of a young and bright individual taking their own life, for any reason.
I do know there is one thing many of us (myself included) do not understand ... and that is what it was like to grow up in a internet-enabled age. An age where "friends" are text messages from a "handle"; people never seen, eyes never penetrated, hands never shook. Because of that, I don't think many of us can understand what small part of the puzzle an internet "coffeeshop" could play, if any, in contributing to a persons depression. In Cameron's case, having watched how he was brought in here, how he was a part of the history and the day-to-day for so long, I can not fathom how it could not have at least some small effect.
I never met Cameron, although before he left for Colorado he lived within 40 miles of me. We were going to meet once years ago ... can't remember what happened and why we didn't. I wish we had. It probably wouldn't have made any difference today, except my loss would feel greater.
For today, I will remember to shake more hands, see more eyes, listen closely to what I see and feel, and follow up to do it again. I need to understand that how I see the world is a culmination of my experiences, and for many that I meet, those experiences are often vastly different. Somewhere in each of our lives, somewhere, there probably is another Cammie. I know I do it now, but I will certainly watch even more closely.
RIP Cameron
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
very sad news about Cameron,
may God bless and comfort his family,
Suicide is a horrific answer. I've had numerous friends take that route and there's always anger and tears. But we have to get past the anger and sympathize with the haunting that someone had, especially someone who was relatively naive and not street-smart, and realize that they don't think like older. smarter people and reach out. It's a hard thing to do and I can't imagine what his last days were like. He had to be haunted beyond words and his actions aren't at all justified but they never are when this happens. His family now suffers and Cam's karma is without a home. Very sad and disturbing.
Absolutely beautiful narrative, Jay. You have captured this young man's spirit and released it for all of us who did not really know him.
God Bless Cam's soul.
edited to add: Thank you, Jay.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>Very well said, Jerry. What many forget is that Cam was so young and had smarts but not savvy. He tried to be perfect, wanted to be a cop, the best grader and an expert on many levels of the coin world. He sustained the teasing here with a great big heart because he LOVED this place and he wasn't going to let the ribbing scare him off. We were all very proud of him when he became a professional grader and then got married. Our "boy" was becoming a man right in front of our eyes and it was a source of satisfaction for me...and I'm certain many others. One huge problem is that he lived on the internet and that can be a VERY dangerous place when you're getting kicked. It's all over with Facebook tragedies and who knows what other arenas. Look at his post count...he was one of the most prolfic posters for years and this was a big part of his world...and it turned on him. I can't begin to comment of the things he was accused of because I know nothing at all about any of it but it had to be killing him inside. Like you said, no one knows what other demons could have been haunting him. Does anyone here air all their problems? Cameron was highly driven and a sequence of failures, bad luck, bad decisions or malfeasance and perhaps personal problems could have hurt him deeply, with no idea how to find help. Yeah...SG is a compassionate guy when you get to the serious stuff. I understand desperation and hopelessness...I've seen it with many people I've known.
Suicide is a horrific answer. I've had numerous friends take that route and there's always anger and tears. But we have to get past the anger and sympathize with the haunting that someone had, especially someone who was relatively naive and not street-smart, and realize that they don't think like older. smarter people and reach out. It's a hard thing to do and I can't imagine what his last days were like. He had to be haunted beyond words and his actions aren't at all justified but they never are when this happens. His family now suffers and Cam's karma is without a home. Very sad and disturbing.
wow I remember the ribbing, kidding, alot of us were guilty but at the same time I thought we were only having fun with him. I made it a point to pm him every chance I got, now looking back I see that was every thanks giving and xmas. at those times I made it known to him how much I respected him and how much I was glad to know him and I would brag at a latter date "how I knew him when".
cannot do that now, I do not understand why, but will not guess on it. those who know me know I lost my sister in 1991 right after xmas, after a failed attempt just before xmas. it devastated the family, and I till this day wish she just told me what it would take to make things better.
sometimes it just cannot be done. I miss her, I will deff miss Cameron and my condolances go out to family-I will miss my convos with the sheriff.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
Jay
I always had a great deal of respect, and hope, for Cameron.
I used to interact with Cameron, quite a bit, before his gig at ICG.
Oftentimes propping him up from some of the ribbing he was subjected to.
Since then, I had other areas of life which truly kept me away from numismatics.
I agree with a few posters whose wisdom suggested that this was a consequence of a person who kept failing at trying to make things right.
My deepest sympathies to his family.
I think Numismatics lost one of it's true lights.
Godspeed, Cameron.
Terrible news about CK's death.
I remember CK being an active poster on the forums years back as a very young man. He went to work for ICG in Colorado as a grader. He moved to the Denver area, started his new job, bought a new car, eventually married and had two children, all in his early to mid 20's.
He left ICG and became a coin dealer. He also worked for the police department in Nederland, Colorado [a small town outside of Boulder, Colorado].
He apparently had difficulties [in his coin dealership business; and it is possible in other areas of his life].
At 28 he took his own life, leaving his wife and children without a husband and a father.
Very, very sad.
Unless one had dealings with CK on a daily basis as a friend, coworker or family member, one would not know what his troubles were. His friends, coworkers and family may not have even known.
However, I can see where his life path could easily have led him to the point where he took his life. He had accolades bestowed upon him in the hobby as a YN. He was friendly, affable and known by many. He obtained a job as a coin grader [how difficult would it be for someone to get such a job?; pretty difficult I bet]. He went to coin shows and rubbed elbows with many people who are well known in the hobby and who are very successful.
Maybe he had plans to become a well known and successful player in the hobby; and maybe he wanted quickly. How easy is it for someone to become well known and successful in any area of human endeavor at an early age? Not very easy at all.
He also took on the responsibility of a spouse and two children. For those of you who have married and had children at a young age, you know first hand how hard that is.
He left ICG and went into business on his own as a coin dealer. I suspect one of the most important requirements for becoming a successful self employed coin dealer is "large amounts of capital". CK may not have had same and thus did not have the resources to pay for all of the expenses of running a business.
The responsibility of being a husband and father, of owning and running a coin dealership business, of working for a police department and of trying to live up to lofty expectations that you place on yourself and that others place on you, all while being a young man in your 20's is something which could very easily overwhelm a person.
Wisdom, experience, morals, ethics, values, a strong sense of self and a support network of persons you can turn to and rely upon are things which can help a person:
1. avoid getting into trouble in the first place; or
2. get out of trouble once you are in it.
In the absence of the above, one can easily become overwhelmed by what life throws at you [and by the messes you make for yourself]. Loneliness, isolation, depression, etc. can creep up and drag you down into self destructive choices, the ultimate being suicide.
Suicide is irreversible and is something which allows one to escape from troubles which may seem overwhelming and insurmountable [but in reality are not].
To the extent CK was in financial trouble due to his coin dealership business, he could have just closed down the business. Outstanding liabilities to customers could have been dealt with one by one, over time. In a worst case scenario, these liabilities could be reduced or eliminated through bankruptcy. New jobs and career opportunities both inside and outside of the hobby would pop up and be available. If CK's personal life [marriage] was in trouble, it could be worked on and saved, or ended through divorce.
Life has ups and downs and the path you set out on as a 20 something adult is rarely the path you stay on for your entire adult life.
It is a shame that CK ended up having the troubles he had. It is even more of s shame that he was unwilling or incapable of taking some action short of suicide [which is an act of cowardice when one has complete physical and mental faculties with which to meet and discharge the responsibilities you owe to the family that depends upon you] to face, deal with and resolve his troubles.
A life full of promise, cut short at 28 years of age. Very sad indeed.
RIP Cameron and may god bless and care for your wife and children.
But I never forgot the honor he gave me by being my first publication. Such a shame what has happened. This has been a particularly bad year for suicide, especially amongst young people like myself, who have borne the brunt of the embattled economy. I myself was laid off a year ago, and I've only begun to find my footing again. It was a bad time, and I admit having dark thoughts. I eventually sought help, and just speaking to somebody a hour every couple of weeks to a month did wonders for me. That's all it takes I believe.
I can only hope that his death might further awareness of the dangers of depression and suffering in silence. There remains a grave stigma against any perceived disturbance of the mind, when really it is more abnormal NOT to experience some kind of psychological distress. We must quit being so damn stoic, and instead seek help when we need it. Cameron's loss is a great one and I think if he would have talked to somebody he might have seen that, instead of resorting to what he did...his problems are now over, but he has stirred up many, many more in his self imposed absence.
A sad day.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>hendrixkat.....what new info are you wanting? I just read about this and wow, its sad. >>
I took his question to mean ANY new information at all.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>Actually, there's a full page article in the last coin world about the police investigation into his business dealings. >>
And what did it say?
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
Coins for Sale: Both Graded and Ungraded
https://photos.app.goo.gl/oqym2YtcS7ZAZ73D6
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
Whatever the number, I wish he could have realized that people have great capacity to empathize w/folks who honestly and openly face their problems.
The best we can do is to try to communicate that to anyone we know that might be in the same situation.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>Id appreciate it if you remove that article-I do not need to see my friend clowned in such a manner >>
I dunno the guy, but I know the mean spiritedness that still exists on here.
Fault the guy for his mistakes, but I hope the article also serves to remind the lynch mob on here not to go too far.
<< <i>Id appreciate it if you remove that article-I do not need to see my friend clowned in such a manner >>
The article opens old, deep and painful wounds but there is no "clowning" around. The details stated in the article to date have proven to be factual and the monetary amount in question is no laughing matter to those involved.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>
<< <i>Id appreciate it if you remove that article-I do not need to see my friend clowned in such a manner >>
The article opens old, deep and painful wounds but there is no "clowning" around. The details stated in the article to date have proven to be factual and the monetary amount in question is no laughing matter to those involved. >>
I agree.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>Id appreciate it if you remove that article-I do not need to see my friend clowned in such a manner >>
I dunno the guy, but I know the mean spiritedness that still exists on here.
Fault the guy for his mistakes, but I hope the article also serves to remind the lynch mob on here not to go too far. >>
I've never said a word one way or another about this incident. It's sad that a young man took his own life, but don't blame these boards for that. Cameron was an adult who unfortunately saw no other way out of the predicament he was in except to end his life and the responsibillity for that lies with him. My guess is that comments on these boards had very little to do with that unltimate and tragic decision.
JJ
<< <i>To blame the boards or board members for a cowardly, selfish act upon themselves makes me sick. I don't remember anyone telling Cameron to do what he did? >>
....and, here we go again.....
Ya know, due to the problems and some of the ripoffs, there may have been people telling him to do what he did. You don't know that. But, as already mentioned, many people take things WAY TOO FAR on these boards....some of them think they are being funny, some of them are weak and just like to pile on thinking it will make them more popular, and others are just plain mean. There is no reason to be as mean-spirited, particularly if one wasn't directly affected, as some of the folks on the board are.
Everyone is different. If a person bullies someone, by being Mr Tuffguy, to the point that he does something like this, does that make the person feel good?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>To blame the boards or board members for a cowardly, selfish act upon themselves makes me sick. I don't remember anyone telling Cameron to do what he did? >>
....and, here we go again.....
Ya know, due to the problems and some of the ripoffs, there may have been people telling him to do what he did. You don't know that. But, as already mentioned, many people take things WAY TOO FAR on these boards....some of them think they are being funny, some of them are weak and just like to pile on thinking it will make them more popular, and others are just plain mean. There is no reason to be as mean-spirited, particularly if one wasn't directly affected, as some of the folks on the board are.
Everyone is different. If a person bullies someone, by being Mr Tuffguy, to the point that he does something like this, does that make the person feel good? >>
I do not think that anyone is trying to be "funny" or "bullying". This article was written by a Coin World writer. I guess it COULD be considered callous, but to be honest with you, this is relevant to the post. If any one of us had committed such a crime without killing ourselves, then everybody would be in agreeableness that this is unacceptable, PERIOD. It is unfortunate that Cameron was a respected numismatist, but to be honest with you, the whole idea that people are taking up for an individual that took advantage of so many people, really makes me sick. It was his choice to take the low road pure and simple. I am sorry if I have offended people with my comments. -Dan
<< <i>To blame the boards or board members for a cowardly, selfish act upon themselves makes me sick. I don't remember anyone telling Cameron to do what he did? >>
I recall in the threads about this issue that were pulled a few suggested others might take a like route and actually said so. It was disgusting. I know why those comments were made with regard to inappropriate comments posted elsewhere by this other individual but the response here was simply unacceptable.
Eric
<< <i>
<< <i>To blame the boards or board members for a cowardly, selfish act upon themselves makes me sick. I don't remember anyone telling Cameron to do what he did? >>
I recall in the threads about this issue that were pulled a few suggested others might take a like route and actually said so. It was disgusting. I know why those comments were made with regard to inappropriate comments posted elsewhere by this other individual but the response here was simply unacceptable.
Eric >>
WHAT are you saying?!!