<< <i>To blame the boards or board members for a cowardly, selfish act upon themselves makes me sick. I don't remember anyone telling Cameron to do what he did? >>
I recall in the threads about this issue that were pulled a few suggested others might take a like route and actually said so. It was disgusting. I know why those comments were made with regard to inappropriate comments posted elsewhere by this other individual but the response here was simply unacceptable.
Eric >>
WHAT are you saying?!! >>
He's talking about the bammed poster "who shall not be named."
I'd give him a second chance on here, but it's going to take some years of keeping it clean before I even think about a second chance on here. He needs to grow up and learn a lot. He's got a great op to work with his parents seeking business advice for the makings of a good start.
1) This was a horrible tragedy that effected many many lives. Horrible
2) Notsure- It is terrible form to post pm's unless both parties agree to do so. Even then I think it stinks. I could less if you delete your post or not. It doesn't offend me but I think it's wrong to do so---- you asked
3) Notsure-you seem to be fixated on forum justice. I think the fellow you exchanged pm s knew this and knew you may eventually post this in case he was bammed. You are posting for him in which he can no longer do himself since I assume he was in fact bammed. I think you may have been duped. Then again I really couldn't follow that thread with any absolute real clarity. So, I'm not sure
4) My advise, let the authorites sort this out.
JMHO
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Well, on the face of things, I'd imagine the big hole was dug by him monetarily.
The relentless nature of some people on here would hurt the issue.
The "why are people so polarized" thread shows how easy people can be polarized on here. Reading those "Cam threads" re-affirms that.
The negativity some on here dish out surely exacerbated the situation.
I will also repeat that suicide has long been called a selfish act and/or cowardly act. Raise your hand if you want to die. Nobody, hmmm? People that choose death are so wacked in the head, that is the _only_ solution they see. Nothing else is there for them since they can't see anything else. Selfish? Try lonely. Completely alone. Cowardly? Try Broken. At this point nothing is fixable in their heads. They don't see what you see. If it were war they'd be the shell shocked ones that if you didn't get them out of there, they'd be blown away anyway. They may be functioning on the outside, but they are malfunctioning on the inside. They don't see "solutions" only "failures."
Well, I read the money total in the paper is less than what one PM person was claiming by himself.
I think NotSure is trying to show that people may have even been exaggerating their monetary losses from CK. (yet another form of Forum Pile On, if true)
3) Notsure-you seem to be fixated on forum justice. I think the fellow you exchanged pm s knew this and knew you may eventually post this in case he was bammed. You are posting for him in which he can no longer do himself since I assume he was in fact bammed. I think you may have been duped. Then again I really couldn't follow that thread with any absolute real clarity. So, I'm not sure
MJ, I think MsMorrisine put it best.....
I think NotSure is trying to show that people may have even been exaggerating their monetary losses from CK. (yet another form of Forum Pile On, if true)
I'm not fixated on forum justice...just that this situation hit many here very hard, and I don't wish to see Cam be tossed to the dogs again. The young man (not much older than I) should be left to rest in peace...... You are correct on #4, they should be the ones sorting it out. I just didn't want to see him dissed any longer.
I apologize PROFUSELY to those of you who think what I did was in bad taste...I only had good intentions, honestly.
edited to add...I never actually exchanged PM's with him...they were just sent to me, unsolicited, and I have no idea why.
Being one of those who havent posted on this issue,I cant see any reason to go over it again.I didnt know cam or deal with him...nevertheless it is painful for me not only due to the facts but moreso for the potshots being taken at someone whose mindset we can only guess at. IMHO everyone should reread Ms.Morrisons comments a few posts north and think about them.
I want to second that -- having experienced a number of suicides involving friends, acquaintances and a family member over the last 50 years, understanding the mind of someone that elects to end their life is impossible. There are no simple solutions, no simple explanations. Taking care of the survivors is the most important thing, in my opinion.
Just let the man rest in the peace that he chose to provide for himself. This continued rehashing can only be viewed as "self serving" for those who were directly affected by the events that transpired. I do sincerley empathize with those who lost money as well as sympathize with Cameron's family. Let's just keep this off the forums and let those parties grieve and reconcile the wrong doings the way it should be, in PRIVATE!
Charter member of CA, Coinaholics Anonymous-6/7/2003 Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007 Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
I can identify over $100,000 of losses in loans/advances (to buy deals) made to Cam from just three major dealer friends of mine whose names I cannot use.
I doubt if they're as sentimental as some here.
Not having been directly affected financially myself, and having taught together with Cam at ANA Summer and having really liked this sweet and talented man, I have the luxury of hopefully not misquoting:
Per the Bard of Avon: "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones".
And then, from an earlier source:
"Forgive the sinner but not the sin".
And back to the Bard: "Good night, sweet prince, and flights of angels sing thee to thy rest"
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
<< <i>I feel sorry for his family. Suicide is such a cowards way out. I am so sorry for his family and my heart goes out to them. >>
OK, my first and only post on this. STOP CALLING THE POOR DECEASED YOUNG MAN NAMES, for God's sake give it a rest. >>
I agree with the plea to not call Cam a coward. Think it, if you want, but there is no need to make it part of the record. Walk a mile in another man's shoes and see how you would handle yourself.
Most of the facts are now known to most folks in the hobby and biz, and some have been published in Coin World, as well.
I certainly feel badly that the young man has brought about so much suffering (to himself and others) and wasted his own potential.
Perhaps when we see someone out of control in the future, we will recognize it and guide the person on a better path.
My question is what prompted so many experienced and established dealers to financially back him and for so much capital without checking financial histories and backround? Did those backers do their checks thoroughly of did they decide to back him simply on blind trust and perception?
.......when I was a young man , drowning in my own misery and deeply , deeply depressed ...........I attempted to end it all -
and by some stroke of fate ..........survived .
Realizing , ( even though my brain was locked in an irrational merry -go-round of negative thoughts ) what I had just done was the ultimate cowardly , selfish act ,
I swore I would never do such a thing ever again...........
Just a few years ago , I found myself again on the edge of that cliff - so very close to leaping ...........
The only thing that kept me from leaving this world was my newborn son .......
As much sorrow and agony consumed me , I could not bare to think he would grow up without a father...and that he might never forgive me for leaving him ........
In my mind at that time -there was no way out - I had no options ;
and that's what ripped my soul apart - no way to go on - yet no way to leave my boy either .........
When my loving wife helped me crawl to the hospital for help , I wailed and sobbed for hours in the E.R ....... the anguish , the shame , the guilt ....it was awful
The institution and professionals in the mental health field helped me to put back the pieces of my life , and I was made whole again -
I still take the medication , and still see a therapist and a psychiatrist.
No one has the right to judge another human being - even if they have walked a lifetime in someone else's shoes
<< <i>My question is what prompted so many experienced and established dealers to financially back him and for so much capital without checking financial histories and backround? Did those backers do their checks thoroughly of did they decide to back him simply on blind trust and perception? >>
This industry runs on a good name and credibility. Very much like the diamond business. There are people to whom I would extend $10K credit but not $25K. If I had a $1MM coin I would wait until Bill Gates' bank wire showed up before my escrow agent released the coin to his representative.
And, without going into detail, even that method is not totally safe.
As in, for instance, the NGE debacle.
At this point, and long before, this thread has had nothing whatsoever to do with Cam. It's descended into nothing more than a Rorschach test of our own personal hopes, fears and prejudices.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
I'm surprised this thread was resurrected. Well, on second thought, not so surprised. Someone please lock it, it's long overdue now. Let the man rest in peace.
<< <i>.......when I was a young man , drowning in my own misery and deeply , deeply depressed ...........I attempted to end it all -
and by some stroke of fate ..........survived .
Realizing , ( even though my brain was locked in an irrational merry -go-round of negative thoughts ) what I had just done was the ultimate cowardly , selfish act ,
I swore I would never do such a thing ever again...........
Just a few years ago , I found myself again on the edge of that cliff - so very close to leaping ...........
The only thing that kept me from leaving this world was my newborn son .......
As much sorrow and agony consumed me , I could not bare to think he would grow up without a father...and that he might never forgive me for leaving him ........
In my mind at that time -there was no way out - I had no options ;
and that's what ripped my soul apart - no way to go on - yet no way to leave my boy either .........
When my loving wife helped me crawl to the hospital for help , I wailed and sobbed for hours in the E.R ....... the anguish , the shame , the guilt ....it was awful
The institution and professionals in the mental health field helped me to put back the pieces of my life , and I was made whole again -
I still take the medication , and still see a therapist and a psychiatrist.
No one has the right to judge another human being - even if they have walked a lifetime in someone else's shoes >>
Agreed. No, no one does. And yes, lock thread. It serves no function any longer.
Quoted from a post two or so above mine: "At this point, and long before, this thread has had nothing whatsoever to do with Cam. It's descended into nothing more than a Rorschach test of our own personal hopes, fears and prejudices."
Best line in this thread. No, actually the best line in any thread.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>To blame the boards or board members for a cowardly, selfish act upon themselves makes me sick. I don't remember anyone telling Cameron to do what he did? >>
I recall in the threads about this issue that were pulled a few suggested others might take a like route and actually said so. It was disgusting. I know why those comments were made with regard to inappropriate comments posted elsewhere by this other individual but the response here was simply unacceptable.
Eric >>
WHAT are you saying?!! >>
He's talking about the bammed poster "who shall not be named."
I'd give him a second chance on here, but it's going to take some years of keeping it clean before I even think about a second chance on here. He needs to grow up and learn a lot. He's got a great op to work with his parents seeking business advice for the makings of a good start.
Cameron was a kool dude to talk to. Transactions were always smooth, with ZERO problems, even though I never met him.
RIP...
2) Notsure- It is terrible form to post pm's unless both parties agree to do so. Even then I think it stinks. I could less if you delete your post or not. It doesn't offend me but I think it's wrong to do so---- you asked
3) Notsure-you seem to be fixated on forum justice. I think the fellow you exchanged pm s knew this and knew you may eventually post this in case he was bammed. You are posting for him in which he can no longer do himself since I assume he was in fact bammed. I think you may have been duped. Then again I really couldn't follow that thread with any absolute real clarity. So, I'm not sure
4) My advise, let the authorites sort this out.
JMHO
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Well, on the face of things, I'd imagine the big hole was dug by him monetarily.
The relentless nature of some people on here would hurt the issue.
The "why are people so polarized" thread shows how easy people can be polarized on here. Reading those "Cam threads" re-affirms that.
The negativity some on here dish out surely exacerbated the situation.
I will also repeat that suicide has long been called a selfish act and/or cowardly act. Raise your hand if you want to die. Nobody, hmmm? People that choose death are so wacked in the head, that is the _only_ solution they see. Nothing else is there for them since they can't see anything else. Selfish? Try lonely. Completely alone. Cowardly? Try Broken. At this point nothing is fixable in their heads. They don't see what you see. If it were war they'd be the shell shocked ones that if you didn't get them out of there, they'd be blown away anyway. They may be functioning on the outside, but they are malfunctioning on the inside. They don't see "solutions" only "failures."
<< <i>What is your point in posting this? >>
Well, I read the money total in the paper is less than what one PM person was claiming by himself.
I think NotSure is trying to show that people may have even been exaggerating their monetary losses from CK. (yet another form of Forum Pile On, if true)
MJ, I think MsMorrisine put it best.....
I think NotSure is trying to show that people may have even been exaggerating their monetary losses from CK. (yet another form of Forum Pile On, if true)
I'm not fixated on forum justice...just that this situation hit many here very hard, and I don't wish to see Cam be tossed to the dogs again. The young man (not much older than I) should be left to rest in peace...... You are correct on #4, they should be the ones sorting it out. I just didn't want to see him dissed any longer.
I apologize PROFUSELY to those of you who think what I did was in bad taste...I only had good intentions, honestly.
edited to add...I never actually exchanged PM's with him...they were just sent to me, unsolicited, and I have no idea why.
Being one of those who havent posted on this issue,I cant see any reason to go over it again.I didnt know cam or deal with him...nevertheless it is painful for me not only due to the facts but moreso for the potshots being taken at someone whose mindset we can only guess at.
IMHO everyone should reread Ms.Morrisons comments a few posts north and think about them.
and a family member over the last 50 years, understanding the mind of someone that elects to end
their life is impossible. There are no simple solutions, no simple explanations. Taking care of the
survivors is the most important thing, in my opinion.
Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007
Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
I doubt if they're as sentimental as some here.
Not having been directly affected financially myself, and having taught together with Cam at ANA Summer and having really liked this sweet and talented man, I have the luxury of hopefully not misquoting:
Per the Bard of Avon: "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones".
And then, from an earlier source:
"Forgive the sinner but not the sin".
And back to the Bard: "Good night, sweet prince, and flights of angels sing thee to thy rest"
<< <i>I feel sorry for his family. Suicide is such a cowards way out. I am so sorry for his family and my heart goes out to them. >>
OK, my first and only post on this. STOP CALLING THE POOR DECEASED YOUNG MAN NAMES, for God's sake give it a rest.
<< <i>
<< <i>I feel sorry for his family. Suicide is such a cowards way out. I am so sorry for his family and my heart goes out to them. >>
OK, my first and only post on this. STOP CALLING THE POOR DECEASED YOUNG MAN NAMES, for God's sake give it a rest. >>
I agree with the plea to not call Cam a coward. Think it, if you want, but there is no need to make it part of the record. Walk a mile in another man's shoes and see how you would handle yourself.
Most of the facts are now known to most folks in the hobby and biz, and some have been published in Coin World, as well.
I certainly feel badly that the young man has brought about so much suffering (to himself and others) and wasted his own potential.
Perhaps when we see someone out of control in the future, we will recognize it and guide the person on a better path.
I lost my business last year, filed bankruptcy and my wife of 40 years passed away in June of last year to boot......I have walked in his shoes.
it's not the same.
he obviously wasn't equipped to handle what he needed to handle.
you are better equipped and with more experience.
someone that is suicidal does not think clearly, or they would not be suicidal. So, it's still a different set of shoes.
and by some stroke of fate ..........survived .
Realizing , ( even though my brain was locked in an irrational merry -go-round of negative thoughts ) what I had just done was the ultimate cowardly , selfish act ,
I swore I would never do such a thing ever again...........
Just a few years ago , I found myself again on the edge of that cliff - so very close to leaping ...........
The only thing that kept me from leaving this world was my newborn son .......
As much sorrow and agony consumed me , I could not bare to think he would grow up without a father...and that he might never forgive me for leaving him ........
In my mind at that time -there was no way out - I had no options ;
and that's what ripped my soul apart - no way to go on - yet no way to leave my boy either .........
When my loving wife helped me crawl to the hospital for help , I wailed and sobbed for hours in the E.R ....... the anguish , the shame , the guilt ....it was awful
The institution and professionals in the mental health field helped me to put back the pieces of my life , and I was made whole again -
I still take the medication , and still see a therapist and a psychiatrist.
No one has the right to judge another human being - even if they have walked a lifetime in someone else's shoes
<< <i>My question is what prompted so many experienced and established dealers to financially back him and for so much capital without checking financial histories and backround? Did those backers do their checks thoroughly of did they decide to back him simply on blind trust and perception? >>
This industry runs on a good name and credibility. Very much like the diamond business. There are people to whom I would extend $10K credit but not $25K. If I had a $1MM coin I would wait until Bill Gates' bank wire showed up before my escrow agent released the coin to his representative.
And, without going into detail, even that method is not totally safe.
As in, for instance, the NGE debacle.
At this point, and long before, this thread has had nothing whatsoever to do with Cam. It's descended into nothing more than a Rorschach test of our own personal hopes, fears and prejudices.
John
<< <i>.......when I was a young man , drowning in my own misery and deeply , deeply depressed ...........I attempted to end it all -
and by some stroke of fate ..........survived .
Realizing , ( even though my brain was locked in an irrational merry -go-round of negative thoughts ) what I had just done was the ultimate cowardly , selfish act ,
I swore I would never do such a thing ever again...........
Just a few years ago , I found myself again on the edge of that cliff - so very close to leaping ...........
The only thing that kept me from leaving this world was my newborn son .......
As much sorrow and agony consumed me , I could not bare to think he would grow up without a father...and that he might never forgive me for leaving him ........
In my mind at that time -there was no way out - I had no options ;
and that's what ripped my soul apart - no way to go on - yet no way to leave my boy either .........
When my loving wife helped me crawl to the hospital for help , I wailed and sobbed for hours in the E.R ....... the anguish , the shame , the guilt ....it was awful
The institution and professionals in the mental health field helped me to put back the pieces of my life , and I was made whole again -
I still take the medication , and still see a therapist and a psychiatrist.
No one has the right to judge another human being - even if they have walked a lifetime in someone else's shoes >>
Agreed. No, no one does. And yes, lock thread. It serves no function any longer.
Eric
"At this point, and long before, this thread has had nothing whatsoever to do with Cam. It's descended into nothing more than a Rorschach test of our own personal hopes, fears and prejudices."
Best line in this thread. No, actually the best line in any thread.