<< <i> I know that you need to justify your purchase, but those who had the same "opportunity" as you also made a judgement and chose not to buy. >>
I am not looking to justify my purchase.....i just don't understand why so many people are up at arms over something that most likely will not change....
If APMEX gets thrown out of the USM Dealer Program I would be surprised....the only point I am trying to make is as follows:
USM chose 10 or 11 primaries to distribute the best way they can.... then the 10 - 11 primaries knowing the market (i.e. the dealer side demand) most likely decided who got the next tier of allotment (ok...let's say you are a Primary...won't you give your BEST customer the first shot/best deal???)....whatever was left was offered to the public....IF APMEX didn't do it the NEXT Primary could have and so on....so why is everyone all bent out of shape???? Distribution guidelines DOES NOT differential between collectors, homemakers, or DEALERS....it simply says get them out to the "public" to be sold.....APMEX distributed all their coins (supposedly)... they fulfilled their end of the deal...
The point is that is the best system we have in place....nothing else.....is it FAIR???? maybe, maybe not...but this is what we have...
As far as rules....was it fair for years the USM allowed 30 days of return privileges for bullion speculation or 70 speculation....with ZERO downside risk??? or allowing to charge $1000s of dollars of Presidential $1 at a nominal cost so you can deposit the coins as soon as you get them and rack up Credit Card points galore???? Those rules were ignored...
not trying to make waves....just giving my take on the whole situation....
<< <i> I know that you need to justify your purchase, but those who had the same "opportunity" as you also made a judgement and chose not to buy. >>
I am not looking to justify my purchase.....i just don't understand why so many people are up at arms over something that most likely will not change....
If APMEX gets thrown out of the USM Dealer Program I would be surprised....the only point I am trying to make is as follows:
USM chose 10 or 11 primaries to distribute the best way they can.... then the 10 - 11 primaries knowing the market (i.e. the dealer side demand) most likely decided who got the next tier of allotment (ok...let's say you are a Primary...won't you give your BEST customer the first shot/best deal???)....whatever was left was offered to the public....IF APMEX didn't do it the NEXT Primary could have and so on....so why is everyone all bent out of shape???? Distribution guidelines DOES NOT differential between collectors, homemakers, or DEALERS....it simply says get them out to the "public" to be sold.....APMEX distributed all their coins (supposedly)... they fulfilled their end of the deal...
The point is that is the best system we have in place....nothing else.....is it FAIR???? maybe, maybe not...but this is what we have...
As far as rules....was it fair for years the USM allowed 30 days of return privileges for bullion speculation or 70 speculation....with ZERO downside risk??? or allowing to charge $1000s of dollars of Presidential $1 at a nominal cost so you can deposit the coins as soon as you get them and rack up Credit Card points galore???? Those rules were ignored...
not trying to make waves....just giving my take on the whole situation.... >>
Just like the Mint's response to public abuse of the rules the distributors may find more restrictive rules also in the future.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
The point is not to "know the market" it is to sell in a manner just as described in the Auth. Dist. agreement that has been discussed in detail many times already.
They are not doing so.
Corrective action must be taken. I am not as confident as you that it will not.
This is exactly what it says in the mint press release:
The United States Mint America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins will be available through an established network of Authorized Purchasers that will in turn make them available on the secondary market. To find a bullion retailer, visit http://www.usmint.gov/bullionretailer or call 1-800-USA-GOLD (872-4653). The cost of the coins will be determined by the current market price of silver plus a moderate premium to cover minting, distribution and marketing costs.
Maybe the mint was dreaming when they thought that is what these would cost.
Too bad Rep. Castle, whose baby this program was, got bounced from Congress trying to move up to the Senate. He might have been able to get a quick bill through to allow the Mint to strike more 2010's in 2011. Ain't gonna happen, tho. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I may be in the minority here but I think the problem lies totally with the US Mint. Their decision to decrease the one coin 100,000 mintage and create TWO low mintage items was dumb.
It created numismatic rarities instead of collectible novelties.
If APMEX had dealers willing to pay $1500 for the set why would they then sell them for $800??? The dealers anticipated the potential market price and APMEX went with that.
p.s. I was watching a set on the Bay for a couple of days....It ended last night at $1715. This and the multiple sets in the over $1700 range seems to firm up the dealers anticipated price. It will be an interesting week.....
<< <i>Too bad Rep. Castle, whose baby this program was, got bounced from Congress trying to move up to the Senate. He might have been able to get a quick bill through to allow the Mint to strike more 2010's in 2011. Ain't gonna happen, tho. TD >>
Yeah, too bad. I was looking forward to more commems for dubious events, and more junk like Presidential Dollars, Spouse Gold, and silver coasters. Perhaps something like Palau's colorized topless mermaid coins.
<< <i>I may be in the minority here but I think the problem lies totally with the US Mint. Their decision to decrease the one coin 100,000 mintage and create TWO low mintage items was dumb. >>
If they didn't make a numismatic version this year, they couldn't in future years.
Now my question is if they could make these a numismatic only product as opposed to bullion or is the mint mandated to make a bullion version. If they are not mandated to make a bullion version they can continue the series of future years a numismatic item only to be sold by the mint, so if that were to happen the mint can discontinue bullion versions next year making these a key and rarity in the series
<< <i>This is exactly what it says in the mint press release:
The United States Mint America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins will be available through an established network of Authorized Purchasers that will in turn make them available on the secondary market. To find a bullion retailer, visit http://www.usmint.gov/bullionretailer or call 1-800-USA-GOLD (872-4653). The cost of the coins will be determined by the current market price of silver plus a moderate premium to cover minting, distribution and marketing costs.
Maybe the mint was dreaming when they thought that is what these would cost. >>
So as far as point B given above [B. Bought and sold at prices/premiums that are in line with other similar silver bullion coin products in the marketplace] which current or recent silver bullion product in the marketplace is akin to these? Seems like they are a unique coin. Too bad the mint couldn't meet production quotas. Wonder why a 25 cent face value instead of $5?
Interesting point from an annon. poster on the Mint News Blog:
<< <i>You realize of course that this TOTALLY contradicts the Mint's rationale for not minting any 2009 Proof Silver Eagles, don't you? They stated that they did not want to create an "instant rarity" and disservice the vast majority of collectors, so they chose not to mint any at all. But, what are they doing now? The very thing that they were opposed to last year! I knew that was baloney, and it was just proven to me. >>
Congress was stupid pushing this through, and he should have tried to reason with them, but at the end of the day, it was pushed through and he screwed it up (the person at the top is ultimately responsible).
<< <i>Interesting the spirit intended for distributors.
considering prevailing market conditions. >>
APMEX stated that they had quantity BID at $1500 from a NUMBER of Dealers.....so they made a market....$1395 BID .....don't blame APMEX .....blame the dealers who were paying $1500.... >>
What dealers are bidding $1500? I just wasted a half hour searching CCE and found no bids or offers. Maybe I don't know how to search it but I tried a variety of key words. I did see two dealers looking for info, tho.
<< <i>Interesting the spirit intended for distributors.
considering prevailing market conditions. >>
APMEX stated that they had quantity BID at $1500 from a NUMBER of Dealers.....so they made a market....$1395 BID .....don't blame APMEX .....blame the dealers who were paying $1500.... >>
What dealers are bidding $1500? I just wasted a half hour searching CCE and found no bids or offers. Maybe I don't know how to search it but I tried a variety of key words. I did see two dealers looking for info, tho. >>
Heck..I can't even find a dealer, other than eBay, that is selling any.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
After multiple (many multiple) calls, I got the number for The Mint Office of Legal Council (no one was in, of course) but it is the correct office and number: 202-354-7280. I encourage all who are interested to call.
After multiple (many multiple) calls, I got the number for The Mint Office of Legal Council (no one was in, of course) but it is the correct office and number: 202-354-7280 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 202-354-7280 end_of_the_skype_highlighting. I encourage all who are interested to call. >>
called the number, receptionist answered and supposed to have counsel call me back.
<< <i>Interesting the spirit intended for distributors.
considering prevailing market conditions. >>
APMEX stated that they had quantity BID at $1500 from a NUMBER of Dealers.....so they made a market....$1395 BID .....don't blame APMEX .....blame the dealers who were paying $1500.... >>
What dealers are bidding $1500? I just wasted a half hour searching CCE and found no bids or offers. Maybe I don't know how to search it but I tried a variety of key words. I did see two dealers looking for info, tho. >>
Heck..I can't even find a dealer, other than eBay, that is selling any. >>
Were the "potted" plants the ones offering the $1500 per? Hard to believe APMEX would make such a statement and not be able to back it up. Then again.
Needless to say, it will be interesting to see the first retail quotes as they start surfacing. It seems that none of the usual suspects are willing to stick their necks out and provide a price before they have secured the pucks. For whatever reason, demand appears to be high. I'm guessing that ultimately there will be some crossover from those who are collecting the set of regular size quarters, maybe a lot of folks who just want one that depicts their favorite park, maybe more that want one of their home state's park...I can think of a lot of reasons that someone might just want one as opposed to the entire set.
<< <i>I believe I am observing a market where the dealer sets the price bar and not the public. >>
Unlikely...economics 101 at play here.
Supply & Demand..(Where is the supply though) >>
HS OPA. This is a totally artificial market created by the chosen dealers since people have NOT been able to buy them or even offer prices until the Dec 1st announcement.
Hopefully, the US Mint will not start distributing its Proof and Uncirculated Sets through these "dealers".
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I'm kinda curious to see what the US Mint charges for the "uncirculated" versions as that price will either be a blessing or a dissing of the current "distributors" offerings.
Aren't the 2011 versions supposed to shrink down to 2 1/2 inch diameter medallions?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I just called the Mints Legal Deptartment. The person answering the phone took my information. She advised she would have someone return my call from the bullion department. I told her I had concerns about the primary dealer pricing of the new 5oz. coins.
<< <i>I believe I am observing a market where the dealer sets the price bar and not the public. >>
Unlikely...economics 101 at play here.
Supply & Demand..(Where is the supply though) >>
HS OPA. This is a totally artificial market created by the chosen dealers since people have NOT been able to buy them or even offer prices until the Dec 1st announcement.
Hopefully, the US Mint will not start distributing its Proof and Uncirculated Sets through these "dealers". >>
HS? Not likely, I don't see a gun placed against anyone's head & forcing them to buy. If there wasn't the demand, prices would not be as is. BTW when the Mint starts offering their "P" mint mark version, it will be available directly from the Mint. Something to remember though, the Mint has at least a 100% over spot markup for their proof silver eagles & about a 60% mark-up for their W unc. silver eagles....What makes you think you're going to get a deal from them?
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i> Something to remember though, the Mint has at least a 100% over spot markup for their proof silver eagles & about a 60% mark-up for their W unc. silver eagles....What makes you think you're going to get a deal from them? >>
So let's see.....60% markup would be $1200 a set (at $30/oz) .......................100% markup would be $1500 a set
So by the time the Mint prices these the Apmex price will be right on
<< <i>I believe I am observing a market where the dealer sets the price bar and not the public. >>
Unlikely...economics 101 at play here.
Supply & Demand..(Where is the supply though) >>
HS OPA. This is a totally artificial market created by the chosen dealers since people have NOT been able to buy them or even offer prices until the Dec 1st announcement.
Hopefully, the US Mint will not start distributing its Proof and Uncirculated Sets through these "dealers". >>
HS? Not likely, I don't see a gun placed against anyone's head & forcing them to buy. If there wasn't the demand, prices would not be as is. BTW when the Mint starts offering their "P" mint mark version, it will be available directly from the Mint. Something to remember though, the Mint has at least a 100% over spot markup for their proof silver eagles & about a 60% mark-up for their W unc. silver eagles....What makes you think you're going to get a deal from them? >>
100% Markup over spot for the Proof Silver Eagles. Really? Did they raise the price from $45.95?
No, no gun is being placed at anybodies head since the authorized purchasers have "set" the price. However, folks need to NOT lose sight of the fact that these are simply bullion and unless the price of silver jumps to $60 an ounce, they'll not recoup their "investment".
Yes for the short term but not in the long run. The authorized purchasers are gouging the public with outrageous prices on a product that is only available directly to them and that is simply wrong.
Look back at some of the Hockey Puck thread where folks were thinking these "might" sell for $2 to $3 over spot plus whatever the mint surcharge was.
Well I guess they forgot the power of Greed in the hands of the chosen few.
I, for one, sincerely hopes that the US Mint or the Treasury Department calls these folks to the carpet for some reasonable explanations.
The point being, if the US Mint wants to charge 100% over spot to the GENERAL PUBLIC, then fine but this is a single source operation that does not involve the public.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
No, no gun is being placed at anybodies head since the authorized purchasers have "set" the price. However, folks need to NOT lose sight of the fact that these are simply bullion and unless the price of silver jumps to $60 an ounce, they'll not recoup their "investment".
I bought a 2009 Aztec 1kg coin last year for $1100. It looks like I'll be able to recoup my investment in about a week!
Salute the automobile: The greatest anti-pollution device in human history! (Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
This is interesting. The mint says these numismatic version will carry the "W" mintmark. New to me, unless this is old information. >>
I thought that they placed the new presses for the 5 ozers in the basement at Philadelphia. I didn't realize that there was a recent installation at West Point also.
<< <i>I thought that they placed the new presses for the 5 ozers in the basement at Philadelphia. I didn't realize that there was a recent installation at West Point also. >>
Did the Mint purchase another press? As far as I know, they have only one and that one is located in Philadelphia. Ok, so they'll use the Philly press with a "W" mintmark.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Comments
<< <i> I know that you need to justify your purchase, but those who had the same "opportunity" as you also made a judgement and chose not to buy. >>
I am not looking to justify my purchase.....i just don't understand why so many people are up at arms over something that most likely will not change....
If APMEX gets thrown out of the USM Dealer Program I would be surprised....the only point I am trying to make is as follows:
USM chose 10 or 11 primaries to distribute the best way they can.... then the 10 - 11 primaries knowing the market (i.e. the dealer side demand) most likely decided who got the next tier of allotment (ok...let's say you are a Primary...won't you give your BEST customer the first shot/best deal???)....whatever was left was offered to the public....IF APMEX didn't do it the NEXT Primary could have and so on....so why is everyone all bent out of shape???? Distribution guidelines DOES NOT differential between collectors, homemakers, or DEALERS....it simply says get them out to the "public" to be sold.....APMEX distributed all their coins (supposedly)... they fulfilled their end of the deal...
The point is that is the best system we have in place....nothing else.....is it FAIR???? maybe, maybe not...but this is what we have...
As far as rules....was it fair for years the USM allowed 30 days of return privileges for bullion speculation or 70 speculation....with ZERO downside risk??? or allowing to charge $1000s of dollars of Presidential $1 at a nominal cost so you can deposit the coins as soon as you get them and rack up Credit Card points galore???? Those rules were ignored...
not trying to make waves....just giving my take on the whole situation....
<< <i>
<< <i> I know that you need to justify your purchase, but those who had the same "opportunity" as you also made a judgement and chose not to buy. >>
I am not looking to justify my purchase.....i just don't understand why so many people are up at arms over something that most likely will not change....
If APMEX gets thrown out of the USM Dealer Program I would be surprised....the only point I am trying to make is as follows:
USM chose 10 or 11 primaries to distribute the best way they can.... then the 10 - 11 primaries knowing the market (i.e. the dealer side demand) most likely decided who got the next tier of allotment (ok...let's say you are a Primary...won't you give your BEST customer the first shot/best deal???)....whatever was left was offered to the public....IF APMEX didn't do it the NEXT Primary could have and so on....so why is everyone all bent out of shape???? Distribution guidelines DOES NOT differential between collectors, homemakers, or DEALERS....it simply says get them out to the "public" to be sold.....APMEX distributed all their coins (supposedly)... they fulfilled their end of the deal...
The point is that is the best system we have in place....nothing else.....is it FAIR???? maybe, maybe not...but this is what we have...
As far as rules....was it fair for years the USM allowed 30 days of return privileges for bullion speculation or 70 speculation....with ZERO downside risk??? or allowing to charge $1000s of dollars of Presidential $1 at a nominal cost so you can deposit the coins as soon as you get them and rack up Credit Card points galore???? Those rules were ignored...
not trying to make waves....just giving my take on the whole situation.... >>
Just like the Mint's response to public abuse of the rules the distributors may find more restrictive rules also in the future.
They are not doing so.
Corrective action must be taken. I am not as confident as you that it will not.
The United States Mint America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins will be available through an established network of Authorized Purchasers that will in turn make them available on the secondary market. To find a bullion retailer, visit http://www.usmint.gov/bullionretailer or call 1-800-USA-GOLD (872-4653). The cost of the coins will be determined by the current market price of silver plus a moderate premium to cover minting, distribution and marketing costs.
Maybe the mint was dreaming when they thought that is what these would cost.
TD
It created numismatic rarities instead of collectible novelties.
If APMEX had dealers willing to pay $1500 for the set why would they then sell them for $800??? The dealers anticipated the potential market price and APMEX went with that.
p.s. I was watching a set on the Bay for a couple of days....It ended last night at $1715. This and the multiple sets in the over $1700 range seems to firm up the dealers anticipated price. It will be an interesting week.....
<< <i>Too bad Rep. Castle, whose baby this program was, got bounced from Congress trying to move up to the Senate. He might have been able to get a quick bill through to allow the Mint to strike more 2010's in 2011. Ain't gonna happen, tho.
TD >>
Yeah, too bad. I was looking forward to more commems for dubious events, and more junk like Presidential Dollars, Spouse Gold, and silver coasters. Perhaps something like Palau's colorized topless mermaid coins.
<< <i> Perhaps something like Palau's colorized topless mermaid coins. >>
<< <i>I may be in the minority here but I think the problem lies totally with the US Mint. Their decision to decrease the one coin 100,000 mintage and create TWO low mintage items was dumb. >>
If they didn't make a numismatic version this year, they couldn't in future years.
They're going to have to learn from this.
<< <i>This is exactly what it says in the mint press release:
The United States Mint America the Beautiful Silver Bullion Coins will be available through an established network of Authorized Purchasers that will in turn make them available on the secondary market. To find a bullion retailer, visit http://www.usmint.gov/bullionretailer or call 1-800-USA-GOLD (872-4653). The cost of the coins will be determined by the current market price of silver plus a moderate premium to cover minting, distribution and marketing costs.
Maybe the mint was dreaming when they thought that is what these would cost.
So as far as point B given above [B. Bought and sold at prices/premiums that are in line with other similar silver bullion coin products in the marketplace] which current or recent silver bullion product in the marketplace is akin to these? Seems like they are a unique coin. Too bad the mint couldn't meet production quotas. Wonder why a 25 cent face value instead of $5?
<< <i>You realize of course that this TOTALLY contradicts the Mint's rationale for not minting any 2009 Proof Silver Eagles, don't you? They stated that they did not want to create an "instant rarity" and disservice the vast majority of collectors, so they chose not to mint any at all. But, what are they doing now? The very thing that they were opposed to last year! I knew that was baloney, and it was just proven to me. >>
Poor planning, poor execution, poor communication.
Congress was stupid pushing this through, and he should have tried to reason with them, but at the end of the day, it was pushed through and he screwed it up (the person at the top is ultimately responsible).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>Interesting the spirit intended for distributors.
considering prevailing market conditions.
>>
APMEX stated that they had quantity BID at $1500 from a NUMBER of Dealers.....so they made a market....$1395 BID .....don't blame APMEX .....blame the dealers who were paying $1500.... >>
What dealers are bidding $1500? I just wasted a half hour searching CCE and found no bids or offers. Maybe I don't know how to search it but I tried a variety of key words. I did see two dealers looking for info, tho.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Interesting the spirit intended for distributors.
considering prevailing market conditions.
>>
APMEX stated that they had quantity BID at $1500 from a NUMBER of Dealers.....so they made a market....$1395 BID .....don't blame APMEX .....blame the dealers who were paying $1500.... >>
What dealers are bidding $1500? I just wasted a half hour searching CCE and found no bids or offers. Maybe I don't know how to search it but I tried a variety of key words. I did see two dealers looking for info, tho. >>
Heck..I can't even find a dealer, other than eBay, that is selling any.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
For those who speak with them, please keep us posted on what they say.
don't waste your time with them.
After multiple (many multiple) calls, I got the number for The Mint Office of Legal Council (no one was in, of course) but it is the correct office and number: 202-354-7280. I encourage all who are interested to call.
<< <i>Waste of time indeed.....
After multiple (many multiple) calls, I got the number for The Mint Office of Legal Council (no one was in, of course) but it is the correct office and number: 202-354-7280 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 202-354-7280 end_of_the_skype_highlighting. I encourage all who are interested to call. >>
called the number, receptionist answered and supposed to have counsel call me back.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Interesting the spirit intended for distributors.
considering prevailing market conditions.
>>
APMEX stated that they had quantity BID at $1500 from a NUMBER of Dealers.....so they made a market....$1395 BID .....don't blame APMEX .....blame the dealers who were paying $1500.... >>
What dealers are bidding $1500? I just wasted a half hour searching CCE and found no bids or offers. Maybe I don't know how to search it but I tried a variety of key words. I did see two dealers looking for info, tho. >>
Heck..I can't even find a dealer, other than eBay, that is selling any. >>
Were the "potted" plants the ones offering the $1500 per? Hard to believe APMEX would make such a statement and not be able to back it up. Then again.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>tick - tick - tick - tick - tick >>
thinking these will explode up or explode down?
I just callled a couple of other Auth. Purchasers.
1 said "Sold Out" another said "Won't have any"
The place I was going to buy from is asking $1500 per set, limit 3.
Insane.
I'm not buying at these prices.
it's price gouging.
PS silver just went "vertical" and passed $30.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I believe I am observing a market where the dealer sets the price bar and not the public. >>
Unlikely...economics 101 at play here.
Supply & Demand..(Where is the supply though)
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>Gainsville is selling 5 coin sets only @ $1500 or double melt! PASS. >>
That's a couple hundred + lower than what's available on Ebay
edited to add: no price listed at Gainsville.....only a priceless pre-order link
<< <i>
<< <i>I believe I am observing a market where the dealer sets the price bar and not the public. >>
Unlikely...economics 101 at play here.
Supply & Demand..(Where is the supply though) >>
HS OPA. This is a totally artificial market created by the chosen dealers since people have NOT been able to buy them or even offer prices until the Dec 1st announcement.
Hopefully, the US Mint will not start distributing its Proof and Uncirculated Sets through these "dealers".
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Gainsville is selling 5 coin sets only @ $1500 or double melt! PASS. >>
Is that their Credit Card price or their Bank Wire price?
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
I'm sure the price is bank wire. I asked if they were selling individuals. Nope.
Also I preordered, so they called me.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
Aren't the 2011 versions supposed to shrink down to 2 1/2 inch diameter medallions?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I believe I am observing a market where the dealer sets the price bar and not the public. >>
Unlikely...economics 101 at play here.
Supply & Demand..(Where is the supply though) >>
HS OPA. This is a totally artificial market created by the chosen dealers since people have NOT been able to buy them or even offer prices until the Dec 1st announcement.
Hopefully, the US Mint will not start distributing its Proof and Uncirculated Sets through these "dealers". >>
HS? Not likely, I don't see a gun placed against anyone's head & forcing them to buy. If there wasn't the demand, prices would not be as is. BTW when the Mint starts offering their "P" mint mark version, it will be available directly from the Mint. Something to remember though, the Mint has at least a 100% over spot markup for their proof silver eagles & about a 60% mark-up for their W unc. silver eagles....What makes you think you're going to get a deal from them?
<< <i>
Something to remember though, the Mint has at least a 100% over spot markup for their proof silver eagles & about a 60% mark-up for their W unc. silver eagles....What makes you think you're going to get a deal from them? >>
So let's see.....60% markup would be $1200 a set (at $30/oz)
.......................100% markup would be $1500 a set
So by the time the Mint prices these the Apmex price will be right on
This is interesting.
The mint says these numismatic version will carry the "W" mintmark. New to me, unless this is old information.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I believe I am observing a market where the dealer sets the price bar and not the public. >>
Unlikely...economics 101 at play here.
Supply & Demand..(Where is the supply though) >>
HS OPA. This is a totally artificial market created by the chosen dealers since people have NOT been able to buy them or even offer prices until the Dec 1st announcement.
Hopefully, the US Mint will not start distributing its Proof and Uncirculated Sets through these "dealers". >>
HS? Not likely, I don't see a gun placed against anyone's head & forcing them to buy. If there wasn't the demand, prices would not be as is. BTW when the Mint starts offering their "P" mint mark version, it will be available directly from the Mint. Something to remember though, the Mint has at least a 100% over spot markup for their proof silver eagles & about a 60% mark-up for their W unc. silver eagles....What makes you think you're going to get a deal from them? >>
100% Markup over spot for the Proof Silver Eagles. Really? Did they raise the price from $45.95?
No, no gun is being placed at anybodies head since the authorized purchasers have "set" the price. However, folks need to NOT lose sight of the fact that these are simply bullion and unless the price of silver jumps to $60 an ounce, they'll not recoup their "investment".
Yes for the short term but not in the long run. The authorized purchasers are gouging the public with outrageous prices on a product that is only available directly to them and that is simply wrong.
Look back at some of the Hockey Puck thread where folks were thinking these "might" sell for $2 to $3 over spot plus whatever the mint surcharge was.
Well I guess they forgot the power of Greed in the hands of the chosen few.
I, for one, sincerely hopes that the US Mint or the Treasury Department calls these folks to the carpet for some reasonable explanations.
The point being, if the US Mint wants to charge 100% over spot to the GENERAL PUBLIC, then fine but this is a single source operation that does not involve the public.
The name is LEE!
I bought a 2009 Aztec 1kg coin last year for $1100. It looks like I'll be able to recoup my investment in about a week!
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
<< <i>New to the forums.
This is interesting.
The mint says these numismatic version will carry the "W" mintmark. New to me, unless this is old information. >>
I thought that they placed the new presses for the 5 ozers in the basement at Philadelphia. I didn't realize that there was a recent installation at West Point also.
John
PS: Welcome aboard.
<< <i> 100% Markup over spot for the Proof Silver Eagles. Really? Did they raise the price from $45.95? >>
No but the spot price has risen significantly since it was priced.
Actually is is more than 100% markup....
The 2010 ASE proof announcement came on October 4th and the price was fixed at $45.95 on that date
On October 4th the spot price of silver was $22/ounce
You can do the math
So that press release last week about the P mintmark from the mint is wrong? Or is this new one wrong?
<< <i>I thought that they placed the new presses for the 5 ozers in the basement at Philadelphia. I didn't realize that there was a recent installation at West Point also. >>
Did the Mint purchase another press? As far as I know, they have only one and that one is located in Philadelphia. Ok, so they'll use the Philly press with a "W" mintmark.
Oh, and I forgot, Welcome Floyd!
<< <i>
<< <i> 100% Markup over spot for the Proof Silver Eagles. Really? Did they raise the price from $45.95? >>
No but the spot price has risen significantly since it was priced.
Actually is is more than 100% markup....
The 2010 ASE proof announcement came on October 4th and the price was fixed at $45.95 on that date
On October 4th the spot price of silver was $22/ounce
You can do the math >>
I've done the math.
Silver = $29 / oz
SAE Proof = $45.95
I also did the math when the 6 coin territorial quarter proof sets were available for $29.95 / set with a silver value of $21.65.
The point being. the US Mint has set prices which are not intended to gouge the public based upon current market rates. Just manufacturing costs.
The name is LEE!
"Gainseville now has these at $1700 a set. They say they will not have any tomorrow."
<< <i>For those that missed out from getting their set from APMEX
"Gainseville now has these at $1700 a set. They say they will not have any tomorrow." >>
lol, so now where are the recent APMEX haters going to buy next?------------------------------------BigE