Latest posts and grading submissions completed show a tilt toward 69's 65-70% of the time.....
not the inverse that was the norm a week ago....
the numbers are "gonna be a changin' " >>
What are you implying ? >>
I did notice that too based upon reviewing the public PCGS postings by date. I suspect part of the reason is that the first UHRs were picked (at least that is what the fulfillment center told us) and gotten ready to go before the big shipping shutdown. It would certainly have made sense to get the better looking coins out first if only to avoid returns. Once the mandate went out to get the rest shipped there may have been less time to pick and select. Another reason is that many of the more recent submissions are going in blind in order to still qualify for First Strike designation. There was likely some measure of self selection when the submitters could still open the boxes and see what they had before shipping off to PCGS. >>
i agree with the self-selection angle ....just don't think there was any QC at PBFC, though my late arrivals (two days) b4 March 11th (mailed for FS in flips) were both MS70's >>
From my rather unscientific study (an hour or two of reviewing the public PCGS postings by date) it appeared that the PCGS receipt date of March 12th was the line of demarcation. Lots more MS69s for those received at PCGS after March 12th.
Latest posts and grading submissions completed show a tilt toward 69's 65-70% of the time.....
not the inverse that was the norm a week ago....
the numbers are "gonna be a changin' " >>
What are you implying ? >>
I did notice that too based upon reviewing the public PCGS postings by date. I suspect part of the reason is that the first UHRs were picked (at least that is what the fulfillment center told us) and gotten ready to go before the big shipping shutdown. It would certainly have made sense to get the better looking coins out first if only to avoid returns. Once the mandate went out to get the rest shipped there may have been less time to pick and select. Another reason is that many of the more recent submissions are going in blind in order to still qualify for First Strike designation. There was likely some measure of self selection when the submitters could still open the boxes and see what they had before shipping off to PCGS. >>
i agree with the self-selection angle ....just don't think there was any QC at PBFC, though my late arrivals (two days) b4 March 11th (mailed for FS in flips) were both MS70's >>
From my rather unscientific study (an hour or two of reviewing the public PCGS postings by date) it appeared that the PCGS receipt date of March 12th was the line of demarcation. Lots more MS69s for those received at PCGS after March 12th. >>
Interestingly, apparently only 37.5% of the UHRs that have been graded by PCGS have achieved an MS70 designation outside of those getting a First Strike one. Admittedly the sample is small since as of 3/22 posting only 8 UHRs had been reported as graded by PCGS that were not also First Strike.
This whole cr*p with the mint and UHR coins is a bunch of Chicken sh*t!! They dont care. The last email with missing 9 digit number shows how much they disregard their dedicated customers. Any non-government backed company would soon be out of business if they treated customers in this manner. They cant even get their act together on their main function because have yet to see any new Lincoln Cents at any bank in NW Arkansas or Central Oklahoma.
"One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making new discoveries" -A.A. Milne
i get it what you are saying, yet the deadine for first strike submissions has everything to do with the end consumer/collector/flipper getting an opportunity to open the box and inspect the coin first b4 the deadline, not what PBFC ships out, FIFO, FILO or what is easiest to grab off of the pallet.
FWIW mine were mailed on the 11th (postmarked deadline for FS designation) received on the 16th. i had reservations about one of the coins but not the other.
many may have thought their chances were above 50/50 for an MS70 in buying a mint sealed FS eligible (PBFC) box off of eBay, too. sending those in asking for FS and seeing a lower ratio of MS70 to MS69, would tend to validate the open box selection for submission, IMHO
Order #308465xx just arrived at my house for those keeping track. Order was placed in the first hour and a few minutes. The surfaces are very proof like with no cameo.
I get the feeling that those collectors who have PCGS ms70 UHRs are trying to promote them as something rare or extremely desirable. There will be constant updates quoting a "population increase in 69s" and perhaps "lower quality" examples coming from the mint at this point. In other words, "I have my perfect MS70, and it will gain in popularity and value as time goes on." "Mine is perfect and yours is not."
I admire the collectors who purchased one of these from the mint and never had any intentions of sending it it for third party grading.
I ordered mine on the second day it was available, and received it today. Very impressive packaging. As a circulated coin guy I'm sure I can't tell a 69 from a 70, but it looks perfect to me.
<< <i>Will the encapsulated 68s be worth more due to scarcity? >>
More than what? Some ungraded ones are selling for as much or more as the NGC and PCGS graded 69's. Over the weekend 3 PCGS 69's sold for $1649, $1578 and $1625, while some ungraded ones sold on ebay for $1625, $1826, $1599, $1626, and $1625. Add in shipping and slabbing costs and you can see for the present time unless you are fairly certain of obtaining a 70 its not a winner.
I haven't seen any 68's on the market but just guessing that there wouldn't be much of a demand for them even at issue price as for a few dollars more you can buy a 69 if you want a slabbed UHR.
<< <i>I sent in my FS coin to PCGS on Tuesday priority mail, insured. Sent from the East Coast to CA...anyone have experience on how long it usually takes to get the e-mail from PCGS in regards to receipt of the package? I was hoping that by late last night I would have gotten the e-mail...but I didn't.
I also spent the extra $$ to get a return receipt sent to have proof of delivery...but that will be days longer to get back to me.
First package I had ever sent insured...quite a process they go through to insure it isn't opened. Next time I will use a NEW box instead of the old one with tape all over it! Took the poor postal worker about 5 minutes to stamp all the seams with his little stamp. Unreal.
All in all it is costing me $80.75 to get it out there (insured), graded (FS extra $$ of course) and sent back to me (insured), with all the original packaging and paperwork inside the unopened original mint box(extra $$ of course). Hopefully it will grade as a FS MS70. Never mind the cost to join PCGS to get the submission form to grade it!
I am planning on keeping the coin but if I do decide to sell it, it will hopefully be worth more doing it this way. >>
Well, it took 7 DAYS for the coin to be delivered and put into PCGS for grading!
In the future, the gap among UHR 69s, 70s and raw coins in original packaging will narrow significantly. Seriously, does anyone really believe otherwise? The only UHRs that would be "discounted" would be ones with obvious flaws or "damage" clearly visible to the naked eye. That is my ever so humble prediction.
As with any U.S. Mint coin, only a small fraction of those produced will ever see a TPG slab. Most will remain in collector hands in the OGP. Given the limited production of these, and their unique 1-year of issue, all coins both slabbed and raw should enjoy a premium over melt for years to come.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
I'm sure this has been covered somewhere in this mountain of posts, but I'm betting the "no navel variety" is the product of late die state.
My specimen (even though I ordered in the first five minutes) arrived on 3/6, had no navel ...and (not terribly noticeable) striations across the reverse.
Did they polish these dies?? I thought they pitched them after 300 strikes.
The rev looks OK except for the striations; tips of the wings are all there, etc. and the details look hammered. The obv actually looks a tad mushier--and there even seems to be a bit of "rub" or discoloration at the high points (knees and breasts).
<< <i>Anyone notice the Mint site now states UHR delivery anticipated as June 24th? I wonder... Has anyone ordered a UHR recently? Or did everyone order "early"? >>
I ordered my UHR last week on the 18th of March while working a nightshift. The Mint's website stated the coin was "in stock". A couple of days later, the Mint's website stated that delivery on the UHR wouldn't be till May 24th. Anyway, I received an email from the Mint that the coin was shipped on the 23rd and I received it the next morning on the 24th! Not bad..ordered and received it in less than a week! Also.... listed it and sold it on Ebay the same day ... for $1595 BIN... an hour after I received it from UPS! The auction lasted 9 minutes! I never opened the box to even have a look at it!
I am kind of leery at selling an unopened box due to what happened with another forum member here and now that the Mint has changed their return policy to 7 days. If the person who you sold it to claims nothing was in the box and file a complaint with PayPal, you won’t be able to contest it as you don’t know if there was anything in the box. By the time you get the empty box back, you won’t be able to return it.
The Saga comes Full Circle. After ordering at 12:30 on January 22, 2009, the UHR has today now arrived from PCGS housed in its new First Strike MS70 Holder!
<< <i>HEADING HOME WITH A TRUEVIEW PHOTO! - SHE IS A KEEPER! Just got the notification that my UHR which was ordered at 12:30 on 1/22/09 is now headed back from PCGS with a First Strike MS70 Grade. Although it arrived at PCGS on March 12th it took until today to get shipped back because I had opted to take advantage of PCGS's Trueview service. (Looks like mine may be one of the very few First Strike UHR's to be accompanied by a Trueview photo as it appeared when I last checked that none of those listed on EBay mentioned the addition of Trueview.) Anyway, if you scroll down to the last photo you will see her in all her Trueview glory:
So were any of the UHR graded with the PL designation? Saw a grading report today from "across the street" that was a 69 with PL. Have not seen the coin or the label. Just wondering if PCGS holdered any. Should see it next week.
LineItem Year Mint Mark Variety/Pedigree Denom. Proof Grade Strike Char Comments 001 2009 ULTRA HIGH EARLY RELEASES G$20 MS 69 PL
<< <i>Prices seem to have stabilized with the MS70FS and moving up on the MS69 FS. >>
Interesting. This is something that I predicted would happen in the not so distant future. For those who do want a TPG coin, it is obvious that a PCGS 70 is more desirable than a 69, but it will clearly not be worth THAT much more. In addition, most collectors are content owning an ungraded coin resting in its original, beautiful packaging. The value is in the collectability of this one year issue, not the microscopic grade differences.
<< <i>Will the encapsulated 68s be worth more due to scarcity? >>
No - you could make a MS-63 by carrying it around in your pocket for awhile, doesn't mean anyone will pay more for it because it's the only 63. >>
By definition, a mint state coin carried in the pocket would not be downgraded to a lower mint state due to wear, but become circulated or an AU grade. An MS-63 needs chatter from the mint to bring it down to this level.
<< <i><< So were any of the UHR graded with the PL designation? >>
Sorry, am a newbie, did a search.... What is PL? -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proof like in appearance. >>
I'm curious about the PL UHR's. I've seen one with a very mirrored finish. This coin is not supposed to have a proof finish. There's not been much said about these. Anyone have one?
<< <i><< So were any of the UHR graded with the PL designation? >>
Sorry, am a newbie, did a search.... What is PL? -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proof like in appearance. >>
I'm curious about the PL UHR's. I've seen one with a very mirrored finish. This coin is not supposed to have a proof finish. There's not been much said about these. Anyone have one? >>
Here's mine, sorta PL!! Actually looks like a reverse proof!!
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>PCGS is turning off the faucet on 70's
Latest posts and grading submissions completed show a tilt toward 69's 65-70% of the time.....
not the inverse that was the norm a week ago....
the numbers are "gonna be a changin' " >>
What are you implying ? >>
I did notice that too based upon reviewing the public PCGS postings by date. I suspect part of the reason is that the first UHRs were picked (at least that is what the fulfillment center told us) and gotten ready to go before the big shipping shutdown. It would certainly have made sense to get the better looking coins out first if only to avoid returns. Once the mandate went out to get the rest shipped there may have been less time to pick and select. Another reason is that many of the more recent submissions are going in blind in order to still qualify for First Strike designation. There was likely some measure of self selection when the submitters could still open the boxes and see what they had before shipping off to PCGS. >>
i agree with the self-selection angle ....just don't think there was any QC at PBFC, though
my late arrivals (two days) b4 March 11th (mailed for FS in flips) were both MS70's >>
From my rather unscientific study (an hour or two of reviewing the public PCGS postings by date) it appeared that the PCGS receipt date of March 12th was the line of demarcation. Lots more MS69s for those received at PCGS after March 12th.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>PCGS is turning off the faucet on 70's
Latest posts and grading submissions completed show a tilt toward 69's 65-70% of the time.....
not the inverse that was the norm a week ago....
the numbers are "gonna be a changin' " >>
What are you implying ? >>
I did notice that too based upon reviewing the public PCGS postings by date. I suspect part of the reason is that the first UHRs were picked (at least that is what the fulfillment center told us) and gotten ready to go before the big shipping shutdown. It would certainly have made sense to get the better looking coins out first if only to avoid returns. Once the mandate went out to get the rest shipped there may have been less time to pick and select. Another reason is that many of the more recent submissions are going in blind in order to still qualify for First Strike designation. There was likely some measure of self selection when the submitters could still open the boxes and see what they had before shipping off to PCGS. >>
i agree with the self-selection angle ....just don't think there was any QC at PBFC, though
my late arrivals (two days) b4 March 11th (mailed for FS in flips) were both MS70's >>
From my rather unscientific study (an hour or two of reviewing the public PCGS postings by date) it appeared that the PCGS receipt date of March 12th was the line of demarcation. Lots more MS69s for those received at PCGS after March 12th. >>
Interestingly, apparently only 37.5% of the UHRs that have been graded by PCGS have achieved an MS70 designation outside of those getting a First Strike one. Admittedly the sample is small since as of 3/22 posting only 8 UHRs had been reported as graded by PCGS that were not also First Strike.
How much money did they waste in calls to an 800 # and customer rep time because of this email blunder? Amazing.
FWIW mine were mailed on the 11th (postmarked deadline for FS designation) received on the 16th. i had reservations about one of the coins but not the other.
many may have thought their chances were above 50/50 for an MS70 in buying a mint sealed FS eligible (PBFC) box off of eBay, too. sending those in asking for FS and seeing a lower ratio of MS70 to MS69, would tend to validate the open box selection for submission, IMHO
i enjoy the discussion
FOR SALE Items
<< <i>You can try this... sign up a a subscription (and then cancel the subscription). Your customer number is actually in that email!!!
How much money did they waste in calls to an 800 # and customer rep time because of this email blunder? Amazing. >>
Thanks OldHobo!! It worked.
Miles
In other words, "I have my perfect MS70, and it will gain in popularity and value as time goes on."
"Mine is perfect and yours is not."
I admire the collectors who purchased one of these from the mint and never had any intentions of sending it it for third party grading.
<< <i>
<< <i>You can try this... sign up a a subscription (and then cancel the subscription). Your customer number is actually in that email!!!
How much money did they waste in calls to an 800 # and customer rep time because of this email blunder? Amazing. >>
Thanks OldHobo!! It worked.
Miles >>
Ditto - I found out my customer number is an 8-digit number, not nine.
1054 - 70's
465 - 69's
<< <i>UHR book online now shows "in stock and reserved" >>
Did you ever get your replacement coin, yet?
<< <i>POPS:
1054 - 70's
465 - 69's >>
One day later. 1113-70's
489-69's
2-68's
The increase per day seems to be slowing down a little.
<< <i>Will the encapsulated 68s be worth more due to scarcity? >>
More than what? Some ungraded ones are selling for as much or more as the NGC and PCGS graded 69's. Over the weekend 3 PCGS 69's sold for $1649, $1578 and $1625, while some ungraded ones sold on ebay for $1625, $1826, $1599, $1626, and $1625. Add in shipping and slabbing costs and you can see for the present time unless you are fairly certain of obtaining a 70 its not a winner.
I haven't seen any 68's on the market but just guessing that there wouldn't be much of a demand for them even at issue price as for a few dollars more you can buy a 69 if you want a slabbed UHR.
<< <i>I sent in my FS coin to PCGS on Tuesday priority mail, insured. Sent from the East Coast to CA...anyone have experience on how long it usually takes to get the e-mail from PCGS in regards to receipt of the package? I was hoping that by late last night I would have gotten the e-mail...but I didn't.
I also spent the extra $$ to get a return receipt sent to have proof of delivery...but that will be days longer to get back to me.
First package I had ever sent insured...quite a process they go through to insure it isn't opened. Next time I will use a NEW box instead of the old one with tape all over it! Took the poor postal worker about 5 minutes to stamp all the seams with his little stamp. Unreal.
All in all it is costing me $80.75 to get it out there (insured), graded (FS extra $$ of course) and sent back to me (insured), with all the original packaging and paperwork inside the unopened original mint box(extra $$ of course). Hopefully it will grade as a FS MS70. Never mind the cost to join PCGS to get the submission form to grade it!
I am planning on keeping the coin but if I do decide to sell it, it will hopefully be worth more doing it this way. >>
Well, it took 7 DAYS for the coin to be delivered and put into PCGS for grading!
The only UHRs that would be "discounted" would be ones with obvious flaws or "damage" clearly visible to the naked eye.
That is my ever so humble prediction.
<< <i>Will the encapsulated 68s be worth more due to scarcity? >>
No - you could make a MS-63 by carrying it around in your pocket for awhile, doesn't mean anyone will pay more for it because it's the only 63.
I wonder...
Has anyone ordered a UHR recently? Or did everyone order "early"?
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>
<< <i>UHR book online now shows "in stock and reserved" >>
Did you ever get your replacement coin, yet? >>
a forumer sold an pre-3/11 unopened one to me at cost! {I don't know if it's ok to say who, but thanks! I notice the person doesn't advertise bst's}
I've already sent it in as express service. When it comes back, I'm going to change replacement to return.
<< <i>Still waiting for my coin to be delivered to me. Pcgs shipped it on 3/13. So slow
12 days?
do you live in guam?
call the po and get an eta from calif. to you. if it is 2x past, I'd be bugging them about where it is.
My specimen (even though I ordered in the first five minutes) arrived on 3/6, had no navel
Did they polish these dies?? I thought they pitched them after 300 strikes.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
I do believe it was 500 strikes for the life of the die. Your theory regarding no navel being late stage die is probably correct.
Forum AdministratorPSA & PSA/DNA ForumModerator@collectors.com | p 800.325.1121 | PSAcard.com
<< <i>Anyone notice the Mint site now states UHR delivery anticipated as June 24th? I wonder... Has anyone ordered a UHR recently? Or did everyone order "early"?
I ordered my UHR last week on the 18th of March while working a nightshift. The Mint's website stated the coin was "in stock". A couple of days later, the Mint's website stated that delivery on the UHR wouldn't be till May 24th. Anyway, I received an email from the Mint that the coin was shipped on the 23rd and I received it the next morning on the 24th!
Not bad..ordered and received it in less than a week! Also.... listed it and sold it on Ebay the same day ... for $1595 BIN... an hour after I received it from UPS! The auction lasted 9 minutes! I never opened the box to even have a look at it!
<< <i>do you live in guam? >>
No. The tracking did update today and it is close.
Processed, March 26, 2009, 1:00 am, WATERBURY, CT 06701
Acceptance, March 13, 2009, 1:36 pm, NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92660
Update it arrived. They sent it in a pcgs blue box and included the mint capsule.
The Saga comes Full Circle. After ordering at 12:30 on January 22, 2009, the UHR has today now arrived from PCGS housed in its new First Strike MS70 Holder!
<< <i>HEADING HOME WITH A TRUEVIEW PHOTO! - SHE IS A KEEPER! Just got the notification that my UHR which was ordered at 12:30 on 1/22/09 is now headed back from PCGS with a First Strike MS70 Grade. Although it arrived at PCGS on March 12th it took until today to get shipped back because I had opted to take advantage of PCGS's Trueview service. (Looks like mine may be one of the very few First Strike UHR's to be accompanied by a Trueview photo as it appeared when I last checked that none of those listed on EBay mentioned the addition of Trueview.) Anyway, if you scroll down to the last photo you will see her in all her Trueview glory:
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> (#30828--- @ 12:30 1/22)
So were any of the UHR graded with the PL designation?
Saw a grading report today from "across the street" that
was a 69 with PL. Have not seen the coin or the label. Just
wondering if PCGS holdered any. Should see it next week.
LineItem Year Mint Mark Variety/Pedigree Denom. Proof Grade Strike Char Comments
001 2009 ULTRA HIGH EARLY RELEASES G$20 MS 69 PL
My friend's coin recieved on 12th of course.
PCGS received it on 19th posted a few minutes ago.
Joe
cert info not posted, but grade available
coin 407405 (that's FS)
grade MS 70!
score !
<< <i>So were any of the UHR graded with the PL designation? >>
Sorry, am a newbie, did a search.... What is PL?
<< <i>
<< <i>So were any of the UHR graded with the PL designation? >>
Sorry, am a newbie, did a search.... What is PL? >>
Proof-like
<< <i>Prices seem to have stabilized with the MS70FS and moving up on the MS69 FS. >>
Interesting.
This is something that I predicted would happen in the not so distant future. For those who do want a TPG coin, it is obvious that a PCGS 70 is more desirable than a 69, but it will clearly not be worth THAT much more.
In addition, most collectors are content owning an ungraded coin resting in its original, beautiful packaging. The value is in the collectability of this one year issue, not the microscopic grade differences.
<< So were any of the UHR graded with the PL designation? >>
Sorry, am a newbie, did a search.... What is PL?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proof like in appearance.
<< <i>
<< <i>Will the encapsulated 68s be worth more due to scarcity? >>
No - you could make a MS-63 by carrying it around in your pocket for awhile, doesn't mean anyone will pay more for it because it's the only 63. >>
By definition, a mint state coin carried in the pocket would not be downgraded to a lower mint state due to wear, but become circulated or an AU grade. An MS-63 needs chatter from the mint to bring it down to this level.
<< <i>Add one more MS70 to the pile NON FS.
My friend's coin recieved on 12th of course.
PCGS received it on 19th posted a few minutes ago.
Joe >>
It's a moot point now, but if he received it on the 12th, then they shipped it on or before the 11th, which would have qualified it for FS.
<< <i><< So were any of the UHR graded with the PL designation? >>
Sorry, am a newbie, did a search.... What is PL?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proof like in appearance. >>
I'm curious about the PL UHR's. I've seen one with a very mirrored finish. This coin is not supposed to have a proof finish.
There's not been much said about these.
Anyone have one?
<< <i>
<< <i><< So were any of the UHR graded with the PL designation? >>
Sorry, am a newbie, did a search.... What is PL?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proof like in appearance. >>
I'm curious about the PL UHR's. I've seen one with a very mirrored finish. This coin is not supposed to have a proof finish.
There's not been much said about these.
Anyone have one? >>
Here's mine, sorta PL!! Actually looks like a reverse proof!!