<< <i>Very cool post! I am really surprised that they surplused this without checking for all those blanks and such. Imagine if this was a press from the 1800s with all those coins still inside! I am interested in how much the press cost at auction and how much the restoration was? >>
I didn't buy it at auction, a surplus machine tool dealer did. I didn't know what they had to pay for it. The cost to have the press transported 60 miles and set up in my shop was about $12,000 (almost a dollar a pound). This included placing the press exactly where I wanted it on the concrete slab, leveling it, running power from the building's junction box to the press (union electrician), and an on-site consultation with two (retired) Denver Mint employees for a day. The electrician couldn't figure out where all the cables went, and was sure that it needed a 480 volt input, which the building didn't have. I argued with him for a while and then he left. Later he came back and I convnced him how it was supposed to go together, power wise. Later, when the two Denver Mint empoyees came for the consultation, they threw their hands up and left after about 10 minutes. The PLC power supply was dead and the main controller had no power. At that point, I was mostly on my own, but did get some valuable tips over the phone from "Volker", a Grabener Press technician based at their USA office in Rhode Island.
After getting the press set up, the biggest expense was the $880 bolt. Everything else I pretty much did myself. I did hire an automotive detailing outfit to come over and help clean it up ($250).
Another major expense was to get a collection of different collars and die fixtures fabricated. Reeded-edge collars aren't cheap.
You asked a question about "why the red X" on the feeding fingers. My guess is that it was rendered unserviceable after being struck, but it seems odd that the outside of the fingers would be problematic for re-use. You used a lot of ingenuity in bypassing systems to make this operational. Thanks for the mini tour inside the machine. It's fascinating to me.
And did you try the "RED X'ed" fingers in the machine to see if there is a problem ? >>
Obviously, the red "X" was to flag the finger as damaged. It probably could have been fixed, but maybe not worth the trouble if new ones were readily available.
I did not try using any of those feeding fingers. In fact, I have not been using the automatic feeding mechanism at all. I hand-feed the press, one at a time (using foot-long rubber-tipped tweezers, not my fingers !).
<< <i>Just curious do the dates of the coins and medal found give an indication of a time frame when maintenance decreased or does it appear the level of maintenance was consistent over the years by the Mint? Do some of the locations and amount of coins and planchets indicate a poor maintenance program on this press? >>
The found coin dates range from 1988 to 2000. It appears that the maintenace was consisent over the years. I talked to the service technician from Grabener who servied the press in Denver. He said it was his favorite press there, and that it had fewer operating hours than normal because it was used only for mint-set coins, commemorative coins, and medals. The small mint-set medals and the John Adams medal found inside it seem to confirm that.
Some time around 2001, the Denver Mint relaced their Grabener presses with new Shuler presses. Some of the Grabener presses went to San Francisco. Maybe they couldn't figure out how to get this one working properly and so they sold it instead of sending it to SF.
dcarr, I'm going to take back some of the horrible things I've said about you.
That is a very cool recovery. May you have great success with the press, and especially with the tokens created by the recovered planchets. An all around clever idea and execution.
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
Next time you need an $800 part drop me a note. I'm sure I could have made it for you for half that and I guarantee it fits right the first time. I have lots of high strength steel material in my garage shop and quite a bit of experience making precision parts. I don't do much work now because coins keeps me busy but need an excuse to get the tools out occasionally.
Did you have to put in 480 volt service in your home? How many horspower is that. I assume it's 3 phase and needs a hefty power supply. Around here that's hard to do (zoning). Are you running it off a phase converter?
the glove box in the corner is a nice touch.
--Jerry >>
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'll be needing quite a few die blanks fabricated. A lathe would do the trick. I like to use A2 steel for dies.
The press is not at my home (no 3-phase power here). It is located in an industrial building. My unit has 200 amps of 208-volt (3-phase) power available (unless someone else in the building attemps to draw a lot of current at the same time). On motor start-up, it draws over 100 amps (208-volt, 3-phase).
<< <i>interesting post, and a great job of restoration, but doesn't anyone think that these should be destroyed once the mint is done with them, and not available for others to buy >>
There are plenty of other coin presses available on the market, new and used. If the Mint destroyed their surplus presses rather than selling them, there would still be coin presses available. The Mint, of course, draws the line at dies, hubs, and galvanos. Anything else can be sold as surplus.
<< <i>dcarr, I'm going to take back some of the horrible things I've said about you.
That is a very cool recovery. May you have great success with the press, and especially with the tokens created by the recovered planchets. An all around clever idea and execution. >>
Thanks,
What "horrible things" ? Oh wait, whatever it was, dont repeat it
In 1987, and for 7 years thereafter, I laid out, assembled, and wired complete hundreds of electrical cabinets exactly like this one for Burner Management Systems. I immediately recognized those big AB PLCs and relays. Thank you for bringing back those fond memories.
Reading this AWESOME post was more enjoyable than finding an 1893-S Morgan in the attic. Thank you for sharing it with us. From now on, you are "Mr. Carr" to me.
I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
A coin press is on my wish list, just after the electron microscope.
The 65 horsepower motor running the flywheel does not seem like much when compared to the numbers associated with vehicles.
But realize that this is somewhere between 35 and 45 "household outlets" going full blast, a 1500 watt heater/hairdrier plugged into each one.
This is not the sort of juice that your typical 100, 200 or even 400 amp household service can do. One needs a larger, more industrial power source.
I sure hope that big red thing underneath the large 200 amp fuses is not the mushroom-shaped emergency off button. (cuz that is not a good placement for an emergency off button!)
Absolutely the best thread I have read. Congrats on the great recovery, and salvation of the press. May the coin stamping Gods always look upon you with great favor.
<< <i>A coin press is on my wish list, just after the electron microscope.
The 65 horsepower motor running the flywheel does not seem like much when compared to the numbers associated with vehicles.
But realize that this is somewhere between 35 and 45 "household outlets" going full blast, a 1500 watt heater/hairdrier plugged into each one.
This is not the sort of juice that your typical 100, 200 or even 400 amp household service can do. One needs a larger, more industrial power source.
I sure hope that big red thing underneath the large 200 amp fuses is not the mushroom-shaped emergency off button. (cuz that is not a good placement for an emergency off button!) >>
The operational theory is that the motor adds energy to the flywheel during the entire striking cycle, and that built-up energy is dissipated in brief spurts during the time that the dies are in contact with the planchets. The red thing in the electrical cabinet is just the on/off switch for a separate 110-volt circuit. The emergeny stop button is located between the "two-hands" buttons which must be pushed together to make the press move (in manual mode).
<< <i>Daniel, Very cool. Next time you need an $800 part drop me a note. I'm sure I could have made it for you for half that and I guarantee it fits right the first time. I have lots of high strength steel material in my garage shop and quite a bit of experience making precision parts. I don't do much work now because coins keeps me busy but need an excuse to get the tools out occasionally. Did you have to put in 480 volt service in your home? How many horspower is that. I assume it's 3 phase and needs a hefty power supply. Around here that's hard to do (zoning). Are you running it off a phase converter? the glove box in the corner is a nice touch. --Jerry >>
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'll be needing quite a few die blanks fabricated. A lathe would do the trick. I like to use A2 steel for dies. The press is not at my home (no 3-phase power here). It is located in an industrial building. My unit has 200 amps of 208-volt (3-phase) power available (unless someone else in the building attemps to draw a lot of current at the same time). On motor start-up, it draws over 100 amps (208-volt, 3-phase). >>
Sure, send me a sketch of your dies and I'd enjoy making them. I just changed an oil seal in the lathe today and cleaned it up to make some parts for my son's BMX bike he got for Christmas.
I had to upsize the Power supply to my house. My lathe is only 60 amp 220. But my welder has 100 amp service. My milling machine runs off a phase converter and is a relatively low load.
The way you have that decorated I thought it was in your garage or basement like my garage machine shop.
Is that official ? We need the YS official over here ! >>
CAN I GET AN AMEN?????????
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Not much noise. Its the "earthquake" in the concrete floor thay gets 'ya, everytime it strikes. The neighbors moved out. >>
Any chance that you can produce a video of this machine in action? >>
Good idea, I might try to do that some time. It is pretty impressive when I'm stamping "1964" over some old Peace Dollars and slamming them four times in a row at 250 tons a blow. Good thing the concrete floor is industrial (8" thick) and not residential (4" thick).
<< <i>Daniel, Very cool. Next time you need an $800 part drop me a note. I'm sure I could have made it for you for half that and I guarantee it fits right the first time. I have lots of high strength steel material in my garage shop and quite a bit of experience making precision parts. I don't do much work now because coins keeps me busy but need an excuse to get the tools out occasionally. Did you have to put in 480 volt service in your home? How many horspower is that. I assume it's 3 phase and needs a hefty power supply. Around here that's hard to do (zoning). Are you running it off a phase converter? the glove box in the corner is a nice touch. --Jerry >>
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'll be needing quite a few die blanks fabricated. A lathe would do the trick. I like to use A2 steel for dies. The press is not at my home (no 3-phase power here). It is located in an industrial building. My unit has 200 amps of 208-volt (3-phase) power available (unless someone else in the building attemps to draw a lot of current at the same time). On motor start-up, it draws over 100 amps (208-volt, 3-phase). >>
Sure, send me a sketch of your dies and I'd enjoy making them. I just changed an oil seal in the lathe today and cleaned it up to make some parts for my son's BMX bike he got for Christmas.
I had to upsize the Power supply to my house. My lathe is only 60 amp 220. But my welder has 100 amp service. My milling machine runs off a phase converter and is a relatively low load.
The way you have that decorated I thought it was in your garage or basement like my garage machine shop.
Dan, Happy New Year to an amazing and most talented individual. I felt fortunate to win your large aluminum Maine statehood quarter design on Ebay several years ago. Question, to compliment your working Denver Mint facility which is amazing, would you consider hiring the Denver Mint die shop employee who back in Nov, 2004 added the Extra High and Extra Low Leaf design to the Mint's Wisconsin D Quarters ? Thanks, Mark.
One of the neatest things I've ever seen on this forum.
DCarr's body of work will (has already) become a big branch in the tree of numismatics.
how many of us have dreamed of having our own mint and making our own coins.
and what you're doing with them, with the photograhic and text documentation, the preservation and recoining of the blanks, the creative concept stuff..
<< <i>One of the neatest things I've ever seen on this forum.
DCarr's body of work will (has already) become a big branch in the tree of numismatics.
how many of us have dreamed of having our own mint and making our own coins.
and what you're doing with them, with the photograhic and text documentation, the preservation and recoining of the blanks, the creative concept stuff..
legendary >>
Wow, thanks. I aspire to be on the same playing field as Dickeson, Lovett, Elder, Lesher, etc.
Now that I've been doing my own stamping (and learning along the way !), I've found that it is a lot easier to make an error coin than a normal coin. Everything has to fit just right, and everything has to be adjusted just right to make a "normal" coin. This is apparent when you look at the myriad of different one-off striking variations in my Grabener coin press medal series. Normally, I will destroy imperfect pieces and replace them with properly minted pieces. But with these Grabener coin press medals, there is only a limited number of blanks sourced from insde the machine. So I don't want to scrap any of them and replace them with other blanks, of course. On other projects, I will.
And speaking of odd minted items, here is one ( see if you can figure it out ):
Comments
<< <i>Very cool post! I am really surprised that they surplused this without checking for all those blanks and such. Imagine if this was a press from the 1800s with all those coins still inside! I am interested in how much the press cost at auction and how much the restoration was? >>
I didn't buy it at auction, a surplus machine tool dealer did. I didn't know what they had to pay for it.
The cost to have the press transported 60 miles and set up in my shop was about $12,000 (almost a dollar a pound). This included placing the press exactly where I wanted it on the concrete slab, leveling it, running power from the building's junction box to the press (union electrician), and an on-site consultation with two (retired) Denver Mint employees for a day. The electrician couldn't figure out where all the cables went, and was sure that it needed a 480 volt input, which the building didn't have. I argued with him for a while and then he left. Later he came back and I convnced him how it was supposed to go together, power wise. Later, when the two Denver Mint empoyees came for the consultation, they threw their hands up and left after about 10 minutes. The PLC power supply was dead and the main controller had no power. At that point, I was mostly on my own, but did get some valuable tips over the phone from "Volker", a Grabener Press technician based at their USA office in Rhode Island.
After getting the press set up, the biggest expense was the $880 bolt. Everything else I pretty much did myself. I did hire an automotive detailing outfit to come over and help clean it up ($250).
Another major expense was to get a collection of different collars and die fixtures fabricated. Reeded-edge collars aren't cheap.
<< <i>
You asked a question about "why the red X" on the feeding fingers.
My guess is that it was rendered unserviceable after being struck, but it seems odd that the outside of the fingers would be problematic for re-use. You used a lot of ingenuity in bypassing systems to make this operational. Thanks for the mini tour inside the machine. It's fascinating to me.
And did you try the "RED X'ed" fingers in the machine to see if there is a problem ? >>
Obviously, the red "X" was to flag the finger as damaged. It probably could have been fixed, but maybe not worth the trouble if new ones were readily available.
I did not try using any of those feeding fingers. In fact, I have not been using the automatic feeding mechanism at all. I hand-feed the press, one at a time (using foot-long rubber-tipped tweezers, not my fingers !).
<< <i>The cost to have the press transported 60 miles and set up in my shop was about $12,000 (almost a dollar a pound). >>
YIKES!!!
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>Just curious do the dates of the coins and medal found give an indication of a time frame when maintenance decreased or does it appear the level of maintenance was consistent over the years by the Mint?
Do some of the locations and amount of coins and planchets indicate a poor maintenance program on this press? >>
The found coin dates range from 1988 to 2000. It appears that the maintenace was consisent over the years. I talked to the service technician from Grabener who servied the press in Denver. He said it was his favorite press there, and that it had fewer operating hours than normal because it was used only for mint-set coins, commemorative coins, and medals. The small mint-set medals and the John Adams medal found inside it seem to confirm that.
Some time around 2001, the Denver Mint relaced their Grabener presses with new Shuler presses. Some of the Grabener presses went to San Francisco. Maybe they couldn't figure out how to get this one working properly and so they sold it instead of sending it to SF.
Do your neighbors complain about the noise?
That is a very cool recovery. May you have great success with the press, and especially with the tokens created by the recovered planchets. An all around clever idea and execution.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>Daniel,
Very cool.
Next time you need an $800 part drop me a note. I'm sure I could have made it for you for half that and I guarantee it fits right the first time. I have lots of high strength steel material in my garage shop and quite a bit of experience making precision parts. I don't do much work now because coins keeps me busy but need an excuse to get the tools out occasionally.
Did you have to put in 480 volt service in your home? How many horspower is that. I assume it's 3 phase and needs a hefty power supply. Around here that's hard to do (zoning). Are you running it off a phase converter?
the glove box in the corner is a nice touch.
--Jerry >>
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'll be needing quite a few die blanks fabricated. A lathe would do the trick. I like to use A2 steel for dies.
The press is not at my home (no 3-phase power here). It is located in an industrial building. My unit has 200 amps of 208-volt (3-phase) power available (unless someone else in the building attemps to draw a lot of current at the same time). On motor start-up, it draws over 100 amps (208-volt, 3-phase).
<< <i>KEWL SQUARED!!!!!!!!
POTY!
YOU SUCK OF THE YEAR!
TD >>
Is that official ?
We need the YS official over here !
<< <i>Now you can stop ordering your coins from China!!
Yes, If I can't buy it, I can make it
<< <i>interesting post, and a great job of restoration, but doesn't anyone think that these should be destroyed once the mint is done with them, and not available for others to buy >>
There are plenty of other coin presses available on the market, new and used. If the Mint destroyed their surplus presses rather than selling them, there would still be coin presses available. The Mint, of course, draws the line at dies, hubs, and galvanos. Anything else can be sold as surplus.
Wow. Very impressive.
<< <i>Wow!
Do your neighbors complain about the noise?
Not much noise. Its the "earthquake" in the concrete floor thay gets 'ya, everytime it strikes.
The neighbors moved out.
<< <i>dcarr, I'm going to take back some of the horrible things I've said about you.
That is a very cool recovery. May you have great success with the press, and especially with the tokens created by the recovered planchets. An all around clever idea and execution. >>
Thanks,
What "horrible things" ? Oh wait, whatever it was, dont repeat it
The 65 horsepower motor running the flywheel does not seem like much when compared to the numbers associated with vehicles.
But realize that this is somewhere between 35 and 45 "household outlets" going full blast, a 1500 watt heater/hairdrier plugged into each one.
This is not the sort of juice that your typical 100, 200 or even 400 amp household service can do. One needs a larger, more industrial power source.
I sure hope that big red thing underneath the large 200 amp fuses is not the mushroom-shaped emergency off button. (cuz that is not a good placement for an emergency off button!)
Congrats on the great recovery, and salvation of the press.
May the coin stamping Gods always look upon you with great favor.
Regards,Larry
<< <i>A coin press is on my wish list, just after the electron microscope.
The 65 horsepower motor running the flywheel does not seem like much when compared to the numbers associated with vehicles.
But realize that this is somewhere between 35 and 45 "household outlets" going full blast, a 1500 watt heater/hairdrier plugged into each one.
This is not the sort of juice that your typical 100, 200 or even 400 amp household service can do. One needs a larger, more industrial power source.
I sure hope that big red thing underneath the large 200 amp fuses is not the mushroom-shaped emergency off button. (cuz that is not a good placement for an emergency off button!) >>
The operational theory is that the motor adds energy to the flywheel during the entire striking cycle, and that built-up energy is dissipated in brief spurts during the time that the dies are in contact with the planchets. The red thing in the electrical cabinet is just the on/off switch for a separate 110-volt circuit. The emergeny stop button is located between the "two-hands" buttons which must be pushed together to make the press move (in manual mode).
btt for the evening crowd...................I'll say it again, Wow..........Dan Carr....
Like everyone else, I'm impressed. Thank you for sharing this, Daniel! Loved it.
Lance.
And those medals are way cool!
Did you have them EDM'd or broached?
Ray
<< <i>
<< <i>Daniel, Very cool. Next time you need an $800 part drop me a note. I'm sure I could have made it for you for half that and I guarantee it fits right the first time. I have lots of high strength steel material in my garage shop and quite a bit of experience making precision parts. I don't do much work now because coins keeps me busy but need an excuse to get the tools out occasionally. Did you have to put in 480 volt service in your home? How many horspower is that. I assume it's 3 phase and needs a hefty power supply. Around here that's hard to do (zoning). Are you running it off a phase converter? the glove box in the corner is a nice touch. --Jerry >>
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'll be needing quite a few die blanks fabricated. A lathe would do the trick. I like to use A2 steel for dies. The press is not at my home (no 3-phase power here). It is located in an industrial building. My unit has 200 amps of 208-volt (3-phase) power available (unless someone else in the building attemps to draw a lot of current at the same time). On motor start-up, it draws over 100 amps (208-volt, 3-phase). >>
Sure, send me a sketch of your dies and I'd enjoy making them. I just changed an oil seal in the lathe today and cleaned it up to make some parts for my son's BMX bike he got for Christmas.
I had to upsize the Power supply to my house. My lathe is only 60 amp 220. But my welder has 100 amp service. My milling machine runs off a phase converter and is a relatively low load.
The way you have that decorated I thought it was in your garage or basement like my garage machine shop.
Awesome renovation and quite an investment.
--Jerrry
<< <i>Another major expense was to get a collection of different collars and die fixtures fabricated. Reeded-edge collars aren't cheap.
Did you have them EDM'd or broached?
Ray >>
EDM, using a very specific reed profile.
<< <i>
<< <i>KEWL SQUARED!!!!!!!!
POTY!
YOU SUCK OF THE YEAR!
TD >>
Is that official ?
We need the YS official over here ! >>
CAN I GET AN AMEN?????????
~AWESOME~
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow!
Do your neighbors complain about the noise?
Not much noise. Its the "earthquake" in the concrete floor thay gets 'ya, everytime it strikes.
The neighbors moved out. >>
Any chance that you can produce a video of this machine in action?
The entertainment can never be overdressed....except in burlesque
indeed, POTY and You Suck allocades all around!!
Very, very kewl!!!
WOW!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow!
Do your neighbors complain about the noise?
Not much noise. Its the "earthquake" in the concrete floor thay gets 'ya, everytime it strikes.
The neighbors moved out. >>
Any chance that you can produce a video of this machine in action?
Good idea, I might try to do that some time. It is pretty impressive when I'm stamping "1964" over some old Peace Dollars and slamming them four times in a row at 250 tons a blow. Good thing the concrete floor is industrial (8" thick) and not residential (4" thick).
Regarding that John Adams medal I found in the press, here is an earlier thread on it:
Mystery John Adams medal
<< <i>Oh my ... Outstanding read and what a find!!
indeed, POTY and You Suck allocades all around!!
Very, very kewl!!!
WOW! >>
Thanks !
That's a second (or third). Does that make it official now ?
My YouTube Channel
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Daniel, Very cool. Next time you need an $800 part drop me a note. I'm sure I could have made it for you for half that and I guarantee it fits right the first time. I have lots of high strength steel material in my garage shop and quite a bit of experience making precision parts. I don't do much work now because coins keeps me busy but need an excuse to get the tools out occasionally. Did you have to put in 480 volt service in your home? How many horspower is that. I assume it's 3 phase and needs a hefty power supply. Around here that's hard to do (zoning). Are you running it off a phase converter? the glove box in the corner is a nice touch. --Jerry >>
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'll be needing quite a few die blanks fabricated. A lathe would do the trick. I like to use A2 steel for dies. The press is not at my home (no 3-phase power here). It is located in an industrial building. My unit has 200 amps of 208-volt (3-phase) power available (unless someone else in the building attemps to draw a lot of current at the same time). On motor start-up, it draws over 100 amps (208-volt, 3-phase). >>
Sure, send me a sketch of your dies and I'd enjoy making them. I just changed an oil seal in the lathe today and cleaned it up to make some parts for my son's BMX bike he got for Christmas.
I had to upsize the Power supply to my house. My lathe is only 60 amp 220. But my welder has 100 amp service. My milling machine runs off a phase converter and is a relatively low load.
The way you have that decorated I thought it was in your garage or basement like my garage machine shop.
Awesome renovation and quite an investment.
--Jerrry >>
Thanks, I'll try and get some drawings together.
Daniel, ever think about making medals depicting your cars? Before it got poofed it was proven you have some good ones!
DCarr's body of work will (has already) become a big branch in the tree of numismatics.
how many of us have dreamed of having our own mint and making our own coins.
and what you're doing with them, with the photograhic and text documentation, the preservation and recoining of the blanks, the creative concept stuff..
legendary
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>One of the neatest things I've ever seen on this forum.
DCarr's body of work will (has already) become a big branch in the tree of numismatics.
how many of us have dreamed of having our own mint and making our own coins.
and what you're doing with them, with the photograhic and text documentation, the preservation and recoining of the blanks, the creative concept stuff..
legendary
Wow, thanks.
I aspire to be on the same playing field as Dickeson, Lovett, Elder, Lesher, etc.
And speaking of odd minted items, here is one ( see if you can figure it out
Very cool story and talent, Mr. Carr!
-Paul