I treated myself recently for my birthday and was very happy when this coin arrived safely from across the ocean. I was also surprised that it only took a week to arrive from the U.S.
A Chilean Republican peso, dated 1819. This year was the 3rd year of issue for the Volcano Peso (known in Chile as the Peso 'Chile Independiente') after first coinage was issued in in 1817.
Some design modifications were introduced that year, most notably the mountain range and the smoke stack from the volcano were streamlined and given what one can call a less 'rustic' , more compact design. My coin is the of the original type introduced in 1817.
Overdates 1819/8 also exist for this year. This example has a straight date.
The second coin I treated myself to for my birthday (after all, it was a significant birthday).
A Chilean Republican 2 -Reales dated 1843. This was was first year of the type after the 2-Reales Volcano type which was issued with only one date, 1834, although I believe I have read that it was minted subsequently, although still dated 1834.
A pretty coin in high grade and significant as the 1st year the type.
This years was issued with both a large and small planchet. The small planchet types measure mostly 23 mm in diameter. This example measures almost 24 mm (as close as I can tell through the slab).
I believe therefore it is the large planchet type, although the slab says 23-23.5 mm. This is clearly a mistake. You can see this is larger than the usual type.
@Eddi said:
I treated myself recently for my birthday and was very happy when this coin arrived safely from across the ocean. I was also surprised that it only took a week to arrive from the U.S.
A Chilean Republican peso, dated 1819. This year was the 3rd year of issue for the Volcano Peso (known in Chile as the Peso 'Chile Independiente') after first coinage was issued in in 1817.
Some design modifications were introduced that year, most notably the mountain range and the smoke stack from the volcano were streamlined and given what one can call a less 'rustic' , more compact design. My coin is the of the original type introduced in 1817.
Overdates 1819/8 also exist for this year. This example has a straight date.
Hard to capture both the color and luster on this one, but this is the best i can do quickly without introducing axial lighting (see TV image below). Will definitely need to spend more time with the photo set-up on this one.
Thanks for parting with it @Boosibri - it has all the right characteristics for me to include in the permanent collection!
@TwoKopeiki said:
Hard to capture both the color and luster on this one, but this is the best i can do quickly without introducing axial lighting (see TV image below). Will definitely need to spend more time with the photo set-up on this one.
Thanks for parting with it @Boosibri - it has all the right characteristics for me to include in the permanent collection!
PCGS TV using Axial:
MADNESS !!
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I forgot to post this one on Thursday. Picked it up a few months ago. PCGS 66RD, pop 4/0. The Truview makes the coin look darker than it is. It is much brighter in hand.
Numismatic author & owner of the Uncommon Cents collections. 2011 Fred Bowman award winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson award winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca award winner.
It is estimated that up to 1/3 of the gold and silver which the Spanish plundered from the New World never made it to Spain. Pirates, and the hardships of the long and perilous journey back to Europe took its toll of the rest. The Spanish ship Nuestra Senora de la Luz was one such loss. The Luz went down in a storm while at anchor of the coast of Montevideo, on the estuary of the River Plate (Rio de la Plata) in 1752. The wreck was located in 1992 and salvaged between 1992/93.
This find was remarkable because of the large quantity and beautiful condition of the gold 8 and 4 Escudos coins which were salvaged. Most of the coins had been minted at the newly created New World mint at Santiago de Chile. The coins were dated mostly 1750 and 1751. Approximately 800 coins dated 1751 were salvaged, and 100-150 dated 1750.
Because of the conditions of the coins, it is estimated that the ship was lost in 1752.
Along with the santiago gold, a small number of Lima and Bogota 8 and 4 Escudos, as well as Lima and Potosi silver cobs were also salvaged. In addition, some beautiful gold ornaments and boxes, as well as gold ingots were retrieved from the bottom of the ocean.
The government of Uruguay which had ownership of the treasure, comissioned the auction house of Sothebys to sell the coins, ingots and other objects in 1993.
Here is an example of a Santiago 8 Escudo from that sale. It is dated 1750.
Sothebys offered buyers the option to have the coins profesionally cleaned, or to buy them as they were retrieved from the sea after 240 years. I chose to have my specimen uncleaned, and you can see the marine deposits on the coin.
Here is a brief summary of the history and salvage of the Luz (taken from the web):
Nuestra Señora de la Luz, sunk in 1752 off Montevideo, Uruguay
" Like the Capitana (1654) and 1733 Fleet, this wreck is a case for modern salvage of Spanish wrecks where all or most of the registered cargo was found in its own time, for contraband was always a factor and was generally abandoned if the ship did not make its destination. The Luz left Buenos Aires in the summer of 1752 with a load of money bound for Spain, and had just stopped in Montevideo for provisioning when a strong storm swept her into the coastline, spreading wreckage over a wide area and killing all on board. While over 90% of the treasure on board was recovered soon afterward, the powder-hold was never found, and as it turns out, that is where some 200,000 pesos (according to later reports) of contraband had been stored.
In April of 1992, divers working under Rubén Collado began to recover gold coins on a wrecksite in the Río de la Plata, and soon it became clear the wreck in question had to be from 1751 or 1752, as none of the coins was dated later than 1751. The finds, which were split with the Uruguayan government and then sold at auction in New York and Montevideo, consisted of mostly milled (bust-type) 8 escudos from the new mint at Santiago, Chile. Also in these auctions were 95 gold cobs and 353 silver cobs, the former mostly Lima 8 and 4 escudos (but also some Bogotá 2 escudos), and the latter mostly 8 and 4 reales from Potosí (with several more gold and silver cob sold privately). The gold, of course, is pristine, but the silver coins all show at least moderate corrosion."
@TwoKopeiki said:
Hard to capture both the color and luster on this one, but this is the best i can do quickly without introducing axial lighting (see TV image below). Will definitely need to spend more time with the photo set-up on this one.
Thanks for parting with it @Boosibri - it has all the right characteristics for me to include in the permanent collection!
PCGS TV using Axial:
This is a coin you have to see in hand to give it the full appreciation. I reeeaaally like this coin.
Ok, not just is Thanksgiving but it is a Thursday, so another coin for this thread. Four reales (Cap and Rays) usually do not get the love they deserve. They are much rarer than 8 reales and impossible to complete. So I leave you with this little jewel. Only one certified by either NGC or PCGS for the year/mint/assayer. And if you can find a better specimen (or just another one) for the year, assayer and mint combination you have to let me know... I am that sceptical.
@TwoKopeiki said:
Finally arrived from Germany. Very pleased with this one. Good luster and only 3 tiny obverse hairlines hiding in attractive rose champagne toning.
It should MS. There are no luster breaks on the bust, the crown, or the PLUS ribbon, and just a touch on the right pillar between L and T in ULTRA that is small enough to not hopefully be an issue that would cost this coin grade points. The 3 small hairlines are not very apparent at first glance, but you can find them under magnification if you look long enough. Luster is nice, but not "booming". Strike is ok except for the small area of weakness at 4 o'clock. It should at least be a shoe-in 63, IMO, and hopefully on a first try.
Roman, sometimes heavily/colorfully toned pieces are a bit too "unoriginal" for me (NOT at all meaning artificially toned, but instead just not the essence of what a Mint State coin truly is as made - AKA white/gleamingly lustrous)... and sometimes PCGS TrueView seems to be more pretty photoediting than what a coin actually looks like in hand...
Roman, sometimes heavily/colorfully toned pieces are a bit too "unoriginal" for me (NOT at all meaning artificially toned, but instead just not the essence of what a Mint State coin truly is as made - AKA white/gleamingly lustrous)... and sometimes PCGS TrueView seems to be more pretty photoediting than what a coin actually looks like in hand...
but this piece looks absolutely gorgeous!!!
Thanks Brian. Using your definition, this may not be MS but it's definitely UNC
@MrEureka said:
The Guatemala countermarks are probably not official but they are at least “of the era”, so worthy of my collection.
That is a very interesting coin of a type I have never seen.
You say it was not official countermark, but contemporary. Is anything known about their origin?
The Chilean countermarks on Rio de la Plata issues from 1813 and 1815 have similarly been often imitated.
In that case, as far as I know, non-official countermarks are not contemporary but later counterfiets made to satisfy collector demand.
@MrEureka said:
The Guatemala countermarks are probably not official but they are at least “of the era”, so worthy of my collection.
That is a very interesting coin of a type I have never seen.
You say it was not official countermark, but contemporary. Is anything known about their origin?
The Chilean countermarks on Rio de la Plata issues from 1813 and 1815 have similarly been often imitated.
In that case, as far as I know, non-official countermarks are not contemporary but later counterfiets made to satisfy collector demand.
They Guatemalan pieces I posted have long been thought to be contemporary counterfeit countermarks, but it's far from certain. More research is needed.
All of the fake Chilean countermarks I've seen have been reasonably obvious modern concoctions, but that doesn't mean that a contemporary counterfeit couldn't surface one day.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Argentina La Rioja 8 Reales “Rebel” issue. Rare one year type and this the finest known. Ex. Millennia and FCC Boyd. Was graded NGC AU58 and now PCGS MS61
Comments
I noticed that too, but I don't see any evidence of a 2 under there. NGC certified it as a 1763 AU-53.
I treated myself recently for my birthday and was very happy when this coin arrived safely from across the ocean. I was also surprised that it only took a week to arrive from the U.S.
A Chilean Republican peso, dated 1819. This year was the 3rd year of issue for the Volcano Peso (known in Chile as the Peso 'Chile Independiente') after first coinage was issued in in 1817.
Some design modifications were introduced that year, most notably the mountain range and the smoke stack from the volcano were streamlined and given what one can call a less 'rustic' , more compact design. My coin is the of the original type introduced in 1817.
Overdates 1819/8 also exist for this year. This example has a straight date.
Very happy with this coin!
The second coin I treated myself to for my birthday (after all, it was a significant birthday).
A Chilean Republican 2 -Reales dated 1843. This was was first year of the type after the 2-Reales Volcano type which was issued with only one date, 1834, although I believe I have read that it was minted subsequently, although still dated 1834.
A pretty coin in high grade and significant as the 1st year the type.
This years was issued with both a large and small planchet. The small planchet types measure mostly 23 mm in diameter. This example measures almost 24 mm (as close as I can tell through the slab).
I believe therefore it is the large planchet type, although the slab says 23-23.5 mm. This is clearly a mistake. You can see this is larger than the usual type.
Must have been a very significant birthday @Eddi - these are gorgeous! And Happy Belated!
8 Reales Madness Collection
Very nice! Congrats on both acquisitions!
Latin American Collection
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
Ohh, nice additions @JohnnyCache
8 Reales Madness Collection
Here is my new piece:
I love that piece. Congratulations!!
Nice addition. I wondered who snapped it up.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Thanks, TwoKopeiki!
That means a lot coming from you.
I'm hoping to share my new addition tomorrow when I get it in-hand.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Package is in Barrie!
Latin American Collection
Hard to capture both the color and luster on this one, but this is the best i can do quickly without introducing axial lighting (see TV image below). Will definitely need to spend more time with the photo set-up on this one.
Thanks for parting with it @Boosibri - it has all the right characteristics for me to include in the permanent collection!
PCGS TV using Axial:
8 Reales Madness Collection
MADNESS !!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Another shot, direct light, but angled camera. As can expected - images show the color much better but there are hot spots.
8 Reales Madness Collection
I forgot to post this one on Thursday. Picked it up a few months ago. PCGS 66RD, pop 4/0. The Truview makes the coin look darker than it is. It is much brighter in hand.
http://www.victoriancent.com
It is estimated that up to 1/3 of the gold and silver which the Spanish plundered from the New World never made it to Spain. Pirates, and the hardships of the long and perilous journey back to Europe took its toll of the rest. The Spanish ship Nuestra Senora de la Luz was one such loss. The Luz went down in a storm while at anchor of the coast of Montevideo, on the estuary of the River Plate (Rio de la Plata) in 1752. The wreck was located in 1992 and salvaged between 1992/93.
This find was remarkable because of the large quantity and beautiful condition of the gold 8 and 4 Escudos coins which were salvaged. Most of the coins had been minted at the newly created New World mint at Santiago de Chile. The coins were dated mostly 1750 and 1751. Approximately 800 coins dated 1751 were salvaged, and 100-150 dated 1750.
Because of the conditions of the coins, it is estimated that the ship was lost in 1752.
Along with the santiago gold, a small number of Lima and Bogota 8 and 4 Escudos, as well as Lima and Potosi silver cobs were also salvaged. In addition, some beautiful gold ornaments and boxes, as well as gold ingots were retrieved from the bottom of the ocean.
The government of Uruguay which had ownership of the treasure, comissioned the auction house of Sothebys to sell the coins, ingots and other objects in 1993.
Here is an example of a Santiago 8 Escudo from that sale. It is dated 1750.
Sothebys offered buyers the option to have the coins profesionally cleaned, or to buy them as they were retrieved from the sea after 240 years. I chose to have my specimen uncleaned, and you can see the marine deposits on the coin.
Here is a brief summary of the history and salvage of the Luz (taken from the web):
Nuestra Señora de la Luz, sunk in 1752 off Montevideo, Uruguay
" Like the Capitana (1654) and 1733 Fleet, this wreck is a case for modern salvage of Spanish wrecks where all or most of the registered cargo was found in its own time, for contraband was always a factor and was generally abandoned if the ship did not make its destination. The Luz left Buenos Aires in the summer of 1752 with a load of money bound for Spain, and had just stopped in Montevideo for provisioning when a strong storm swept her into the coastline, spreading wreckage over a wide area and killing all on board. While over 90% of the treasure on board was recovered soon afterward, the powder-hold was never found, and as it turns out, that is where some 200,000 pesos (according to later reports) of contraband had been stored.
In April of 1992, divers working under Rubén Collado began to recover gold coins on a wrecksite in the Río de la Plata, and soon it became clear the wreck in question had to be from 1751 or 1752, as none of the coins was dated later than 1751. The finds, which were split with the Uruguayan government and then sold at auction in New York and Montevideo, consisted of mostly milled (bust-type) 8 escudos from the new mint at Santiago, Chile. Also in these auctions were 95 gold cobs and 353 silver cobs, the former mostly Lima 8 and 4 escudos (but also some Bogotá 2 escudos), and the latter mostly 8 and 4 reales from Potosí (with several more gold and silver cob sold privately). The gold, of course, is pristine, but the silver coins all show at least moderate corrosion."
Nice write up @Eddi
Latin American Collection
And another Ex @Boosibri is coming to Grandpa's collection!
I have not received it but so happy for the deal. Many thanks @Boosibri!
This is a coin you have to see in hand to give it the full appreciation. I reeeaaally like this coin.
Ok, not just is Thanksgiving but it is a Thursday, so another coin for this thread. Four reales (Cap and Rays) usually do not get the love they deserve. They are much rarer than 8 reales and impossible to complete. So I leave you with this little jewel. Only one certified by either NGC or PCGS for the year/mint/assayer. And if you can find a better specimen (or just another one) for the year, assayer and mint combination you have to let me know... I am that sceptical.
1952 Cuba 40 Centavo MS66
Considered RARE by D&P
PCGS 63
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Another RARE date....these coins deserve their own posts !
...... " seldom seen better than very fine according to D&P ".
This one PCGS 62+...wholly original.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Finally arrived from Germany. Very pleased with this one. Good luster and only 3 tiny obverse hairlines hiding in attractive rose champagne toning.
Auction description:
8 Reales Madness Collection
What is your grade guess?
Latin American Collection
It should MS. There are no luster breaks on the bust, the crown, or the PLUS ribbon, and just a touch on the right pillar between L and T in ULTRA that is small enough to not hopefully be an issue that would cost this coin grade points. The 3 small hairlines are not very apparent at first glance, but you can find them under magnification if you look long enough. Luster is nice, but not "booming". Strike is ok except for the small area of weakness at 4 o'clock. It should at least be a shoe-in 63, IMO, and hopefully on a first try.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Nice patina on this piece... was this Hubbard (M&E) or Lerena (eBay) - or other??
Roman, sometimes heavily/colorfully toned pieces are a bit too "unoriginal" for me (NOT at all meaning artificially toned, but instead just not the essence of what a Mint State coin truly is as made - AKA white/gleamingly lustrous)... and sometimes PCGS TrueView seems to be more pretty photoediting than what a coin actually looks like in hand...
but this piece looks absolutely gorgeous!!!
Thanks Brian. Using your definition, this may not be MS but it's definitely UNC
8 Reales Madness Collection
The Guatemala countermarks are probably not official but they are at least “of the era”, so worthy of my collection.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Jumping the gun by a few hours ...
Missed out on this one in the Leunda sale in 2011, but snapped it up today when it reappeared at Aureo.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Hubbard (M&E)
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
That is a very interesting coin of a type I have never seen.
You say it was not official countermark, but contemporary. Is anything known about their origin?
The Chilean countermarks on Rio de la Plata issues from 1813 and 1815 have similarly been often imitated.
In that case, as far as I know, non-official countermarks are not contemporary but later counterfiets made to satisfy collector demand.
They Guatemalan pieces I posted have long been thought to be contemporary counterfeit countermarks, but it's far from certain. More research is needed.
All of the fake Chilean countermarks I've seen have been reasonably obvious modern concoctions, but that doesn't mean that a contemporary counterfeit couldn't surface one day.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Photos won't post, sorry....
I know, not perfect but I like it.....
Well, just Love coins, period.
(https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/zw/7jaov80eaxq1.jpeg "")
Wow, pictures bad as there is a decent luster in hand and NOT dull or lifeless...
Well, just Love coins, period.
If you click on the image icon, then "Choose Files" you'll be able to select that photo from your local library.
I can see the reverse:
8 Reales Madness Collection
Ah, thanks. Having trouble accessing my own pictures for some reason right now....
Well, just Love coins, period.
@TwoKopeiki the obverse, remember the Eagle side is the obverse
Argentina La Rioja 8 Reales “Rebel” issue. Rare one year type and this the finest known. Ex. Millennia and FCC Boyd. Was graded NGC AU58 and now PCGS MS61
Thanks @MrEureka!
Latin American Collection
@Boosibri I think 58 was rather severe based on the pictures. Nice coin. Really nice.
Here's a neat one from tonight's Heritage auction. 1 over something... Upside-down 1? Letter I from the legend? No idea, but its neat.
8 Reales Madness Collection
@TwoKopeiki described? Looks like an I... nice.