Starting to slab my raw Peruvian patterns. Here is the 1952 Sol de Oro pattern. Supposedly 2 known. The other is in the ANS collection (but no online photo).
I don't understand or agree with the grade. It is essentially as-struck with a nice matte finish.
@Boosibri some people consider that a pattern. Do you know what Jara says? (I forgot.)
Regular issue. There are “crude” examples, though very few, which he indicates are early examples which were rejected for quality. By 1829, the equipment and quality was upgraded to a point where the “fine” examples were sufficiently acceptable.
So arguably the “fine” pieces are regular issue and the “crude” pieces could be considered trials or patterns
@pruebas said:
Starting to slab my raw Peruvian patterns. Here is the 1952 Sol de Oro pattern. Supposedly 2 known. The other is in the ANS collection (but no online photo).
I don't understand or agree with the grade. It is essentially as-struck with a nice matte finish.
1908 SP64 Red, pop 3/0. One thousand 1908 specimen sets were made during the first year of the Ottawa mint and sold to the public. The coins were lightly lacquered by the mint. In spite of that, many reacted badly with the velvet case liners and most were frequently handled over the years, so really nice examples are hard to find. This example was grade by ICCS as SP-67 Red and noted as lacquered. PCGS straight graded it, but deducted heavily for the mint-applied lacquer. I do not worry about the grade differential because the coin speaks for itself. Simply the best example I have seen.
Numismatic author & owner of the Uncommon Cents collections. 2011 Fred Bowman award winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson award winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca award winner.
@bosox said:
1908 SP64 Red, pop 3/0. One thousand 1908 specimen sets were made during the first year of the Ottawa mint and sold to the public. The coins were lightly lacquered by the mint. In spite of that, many reacted badly with the velvet case liners and most were frequently handled over the years, so really nice examples are hard to find. This example was grade by ICCS as SP-67 Red and noted as lacquered. PCGS straight graded it, but deducted heavily for the mint-applied lacquer. I do not worry about the grade differential because the coin speaks for itself. Simply the best example I have seen.
Fantastic coin!
Did PCGS force you to remove the lacquer before they would holder it?
I'm guessing no, which explains the 64 grade.
Here is another example that shows how the coins reacted with the case liner. ICCS SP-66 Red, lacquered. PCGS SP-65 RB, pop 1/0. The only one PCGS has graded above 64. I have never really understood net grading.
Numismatic author & owner of the Uncommon Cents collections. 2011 Fred Bowman award winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson award winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca award winner.
@pruebas the lacquer is still on both coins, hence the net grades. I think PCGS understands these were lacquered by the mint.
Numismatic author & owner of the Uncommon Cents collections. 2011 Fred Bowman award winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson award winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca award winner.
@bosox said: @pruebas the lacquer is still on both coins, hence the net grades. I think PCGS understands these were lacquered by the mint.
I would be surprised if they knowingly graded a lacquered coin. Not because lacquer is so horrible, but because it's impossible to know what lies beneath.
As for the concept of "net grading", my take is that it's appropriate for problem coins that aren't completely destroyed, and that won't at first look ridiculously undergraded in the slab. I think PCGS and NGC see it the same way, but I can't speak for them.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka said:
Cool misspelling. CROLUS instead of CAROLUS. One of only two known specimens, as far as I know.
I wondered who picked it up - congrats! I haven't seen this variety prior to the auction and I don't think it's in Calbeto. Do you know where the second specimen is?
@MrEureka said:
Cool misspelling. CROLUS instead of CAROLUS. One of only two known specimens, as far as I know.
I wondered who picked it up - congrats! I haven't seen this variety prior to the auction and I don't think it's in Calbeto. Do you know where the second specimen is?
The first specimen showed up in 1991 at the Ponterio Viceroy Amat sale and to my knowledge has not been seen since. They appear to be different coins.
It is not in Calberto nor any other auction I have checked outside of Amat.
@MrEureka said:
Cool misspelling. CROLUS instead of CAROLUS. One of only two known specimens, as far as I know.
I wondered who picked it up - congrats! I haven't seen this variety prior to the auction and I don't think it's in Calbeto. Do you know where the second specimen is?
Not sure, but I could probably make a pretty good guess.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
That Peru 2R was my first Portrait coin that I owned, maybe 6-7 years ago. It has had a few owners since.
You have impeccable taste and some of the finest Spanish colonial coins that I've had the pleasure of viewing online.
I didn't know that two out of three recent coins I've purchased had been yours originally but I'm actually thrilled to add to my growing collection of coins with the Boosibri provenance and it helps convince me that my eye for quality, specifically within my budget, is improving.
Sometimes a person might be hesitant to pickup another collector's cast off's but clearly not in your case, I'm happy to get all I can. *At least the ones I can afford.
Dinga Dang.......592 new posts since my last visit...........it's gonna take weeks just to wait for all the new eye candy to load.............But it's all worth it as N/S AC Thursday is my FAVORITE Thread of all the Forums on CU
@OldEastside said:
Dinga Dang.......592 new posts since my last visit...........it's gonna take weeks just to wait for all the new eye candy to load.............But it's all worth it as N/S AC Thursday is my FAVORITE Thread of all the Forums on CU
A not exactly nice, certainly not lustrous, VF25, of possibly a somewhat less common 4R type.
It may be rough but it's still enjoyable enough for me to call it a keeper.
@TwoKopeiki said:
Nice wholesome 4R - what's not to like?
I was just joking a bit, tongue-in-cheek, in contrast to the very nice 8R you had posted just previous to me. I always hate going next after such coins, and lately there have been many nice ones.
@Boosibri I guess you could call it a roll. Though to be honest I think it's more about me trying to keep my mind off of all things political or covid related. While staying isolated and distanced, do to hereditary health issues, I have immersed myself, given all of this additional free time, into searching, studying and, in some cases, buying coins. The most valuable thing I've learned throughout this terrible experience is that I'll never waste time again, at least not to the extent that it can be helped. Time really is the most precious thing. Oh, and also that I really love coins.
Comments
Newp in hand today
My first 4R
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
Nice 4R and an old friend!
Latin American Collection
Latin American Collection
@Boosibri some people consider that a pattern. Do you know what Jara says? (I forgot.)
Starting to slab my raw Peruvian patterns. Here is the 1952 Sol de Oro pattern. Supposedly 2 known. The other is in the ANS collection (but no online photo).
I don't understand or agree with the grade. It is essentially as-struck with a nice matte finish.
Regular issue. There are “crude” examples, though very few, which he indicates are early examples which were rejected for quality. By 1829, the equipment and quality was upgraded to a point where the “fine” examples were sufficiently acceptable.
So arguably the “fine” pieces are regular issue and the “crude” pieces could be considered trials or patterns
Latin American Collection
How the hell is that a 63??
Latin American Collection
Even with the same design and date?
1908 SP64 Red, pop 3/0. One thousand 1908 specimen sets were made during the first year of the Ottawa mint and sold to the public. The coins were lightly lacquered by the mint. In spite of that, many reacted badly with the velvet case liners and most were frequently handled over the years, so really nice examples are hard to find. This example was grade by ICCS as SP-67 Red and noted as lacquered. PCGS straight graded it, but deducted heavily for the mint-applied lacquer. I do not worry about the grade differential because the coin speaks for itself. Simply the best example I have seen.
http://www.victoriancent.com
Fantastic coin!
Did PCGS force you to remove the lacquer before they would holder it?
I'm guessing no, which explains the 64 grade.
Here is another example that shows how the coins reacted with the case liner. ICCS SP-66 Red, lacquered. PCGS SP-65 RB, pop 1/0. The only one PCGS has graded above 64. I have never really understood net grading.
http://www.victoriancent.com
He doesn’t call it a pattern or regular issue. My own interpretation from the history he provides.
To your point, the examples seem similar though from folks who have personally seen them, many appear more medallic than like regular issue coins.
Here is a pic of a crude example.
Latin American Collection
@pruebas the lacquer is still on both coins, hence the net grades. I think PCGS understands these were lacquered by the mint.
http://www.victoriancent.com
Happy Thursday from the Mexico City mint.
I would be surprised if they knowingly graded a lacquered coin. Not because lacquer is so horrible, but because it's impossible to know what lies beneath.
As for the concept of "net grading", my take is that it's appropriate for problem coins that aren't completely destroyed, and that won't at first look ridiculously undergraded in the slab. I think PCGS and NGC see it the same way, but I can't speak for them.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Cool misspelling. CROLUS instead of CAROLUS. One of only two known specimens, as far as I know.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Those Criollos couldn’t spell worth a darn.
Very cool coin!
Latin American Collection
I wondered who picked it up - congrats! I haven't seen this variety prior to the auction and I don't think it's in Calbeto. Do you know where the second specimen is?
8 Reales Madness Collection
The first specimen showed up in 1991 at the Ponterio Viceroy Amat sale and to my knowledge has not been seen since. They appear to be different coins.
It is not in Calberto nor any other auction I have checked outside of Amat.
Latin American Collection
$9 funfetti cake. With sprinkles:
--Severian the Lame
Not sure, but I could probably make a pretty good guess.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
A lustrous common date 8R that's getting ready to be packaged up as part of a consignment.
8 Reales Madness Collection
@TwoKopeiki said:
@TwoKopeiki : I love that 1810 8R - ever parting with it, please let me know. @Bob13 has a great eye for quality!
>
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Hey, looks like i'm adding a US coin to the collection.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Recent additions
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
That Peru 2R was my first Portrait coin that I owned, maybe 6-7 years ago. It has had a few owners since.
Latin American Collection
Another one fresh from grading and getting added to the consignment box. Love that gunmetal blue toning on 8R's.
8 Reales Madness Collection
You have impeccable taste and some of the finest Spanish colonial coins that I've had the pleasure of viewing online.
I didn't know that two out of three recent coins I've purchased had been yours originally but I'm actually thrilled to add to my growing collection of coins with the Boosibri provenance and it helps convince me that my eye for quality, specifically within my budget, is improving.
Sometimes a person might be hesitant to pickup another collector's cast off's but clearly not in your case, I'm happy to get all I can. *At least the ones I can afford.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
This if I recall correctly @JohnnyCache this one also pedigrees to @Boosibri but now is mine. I think he has owned coins that many of us have now.
Yes I owned that coin at one time. So did @OriginalDan
Latin American Collection
Here's one I've had a while. Pretty much an impossible type in this grade. Ex: Huntington.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
>
That is a very nice Guatemala 1 Real. Very difficult to find in such a nice condition (and without a hole!)
Perhaps conservatively graded as well depending on how much of that weakness is strike or die issues vs wear.
Latin American Collection
A Tin Farthing from King James II from 1684. It’s probably a river mud recovery.
Happy Thursday everyone!
I love this thread!
Dinga Dang.......592 new posts since my last visit...........it's gonna take weeks just to wait for all the new eye candy to load.............But it's all worth it as N/S AC Thursday is my FAVORITE Thread of all the Forums on CU
Steve
Welcome back!
8 Reales Madness Collection
Nice lustrous AU58
8 Reales Madness Collection
A not exactly nice, certainly not lustrous, VF25, of possibly a somewhat less common 4R type.
It may be rough but it's still enjoyable enough for me to call it a keeper.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
Nice wholesome 4R - what's not to like?
8 Reales Madness Collection
I was just joking a bit, tongue-in-cheek, in contrast to the very nice 8R you had posted just previous to me. I always hate going next after such coins, and lately there have been many nice ones.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
You are on a roll @JohnnyCache
Latin American Collection
@Boosibri I guess you could call it a roll. Though to be honest I think it's more about me trying to keep my mind off of all things political or covid related. While staying isolated and distanced, do to hereditary health issues, I have immersed myself, given all of this additional free time, into searching, studying and, in some cases, buying coins. The most valuable thing I've learned throughout this terrible experience is that I'll never waste time again, at least not to the extent that it can be helped. Time really is the most precious thing. Oh, and also that I really love coins.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
1/0 1893 Peru 1 Dinero
Happy Thursday!
@jgenn is that 3 over another digit, or just repunched?
8 Reales Madness Collection
Here is my NEWP -
Not something I would have gone hunting, but as a neat piece of history it spoke to me.