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2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin in 3D "living color!" ANA Show Pics! My Favo

GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'll be checking this baby out at the Mint Booth at ANA.

Man, I can't wait for this show.....it's like the Disneyland of Coinage.

Put your sunglasses on folks!!!!!!!! image


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Comments

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Where'd you git that?

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Where'd you git that? >>




    The Mint's Website....they must have hired Brandon Kelley!! image
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,117 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Where'd you git that? >>




    The Mint's Website....they must have hired Brandon Kelley!! image >>



    I thought the "consortium" owned him now

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • Perfection! image
    Completed BS&T Deals

    halfnut X3, Dabigkahuna, Kaelasdad, LALASD4, harvey85422458,
    fivecents, Coll3ctor, cucamongacoin, Becoka
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Man, I sure hope gold doesn't skyrocket before these get released. Think there'll be a limit?

    Sure would look nicer without the vertical edge collar joints.

    Got a mint link to them. Seems to be another one of their hidden pages.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭
    Sweet, why would I want one of these from the 1920's for 5-6 figures when I can buy this image
  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    Wow. Heh.

    Now it's not as much whether I get one, but how many.

    (Honestly, it was never a matter of whether or not. It was "i'm going to get one". Not so sure about "one" anymore)
  • tightbudgettightbudget Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭
    I'm so getting one of those...can't wait
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If there's a very low mintage I suggest that the mint use this thread (in the order of posts) to dole them out. Of course the bully of gold will have to leave some for the rest of us.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If there's a very low mintage I suggest that the mint use this thread (in the order of posts) to dole them out. Of course the bully of gold will have to leave some for the rest of us. >>




    The bully of gold, eh?? image
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Man, I sure hope gold doesn't skyrocket before these get released. Think there'll be a limit?

    Sure would look nicer without the vertical edge collar joints.

    Got a mint link to them. Seems to be another one of their hidden pages. >>



    If you tell anyone about this link, I'll have to kill you. image

    Mint Secret Link
  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,020 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm so getting one of those...can't wait >>



    Me Too! I just hope that the price of Gold doesnt go into Earth Orbit in the next few months. This coin is gonna retail for $1200 if gold is still around this price come release of the coin!

    TC71
    image
  • coindudeonebaycoindudeonebay Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭
    Gonna start saving now... so I don't have to sell anything!
  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow, it sure is exciting to see the mint put the $20.00 Saint design on a bullion coin. I mean, other than our current bullion coin which features the same obverse.

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,117 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Gonna start saving now... so I don't have to sell anything! >>


    I'm gonna sart selling so I don't have to save anything!

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • GemineyeGemineye Posts: 5,374
    Finally....!!!!....A coin that would Deserve a 70 grade....!!!!
    ......Larry........image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wish they left the motto off the reverse yet I can understand why they had to include it.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,117 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow, it sure is exciting to see the mint put the $20.00 Saint design on a bullion coin. I mean, other than our current bullion coin which features the same obverse. >>


    I believe it is only being issued as a one time commemorative.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I wish they left the motto off the reverse yet I can understand why they had to include it. >>




    Why did they have to include it?

    I think it's essential.


  • << <i>Gonna start saving now... so I don't have to sell anything! >>



    I'm gonna try to do the same thing but it never works out. I need to get one of those.
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,957 ✭✭✭
    I'm on board fore a couple. I wish all my bullion looked this good. image

    Think PCGS will have a special edge view for this one?
  • 08HALA2008HALA20 Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭
    That is a beauty!!!


    I will have to save a couple of my NGC MS70 2008/2007 's to pay for one of those.


    Rookie Joe
  • veryfineveryfine Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭
    Would someone post a decent picture of the original 1907 Ultra High Relief for comparison purposes?
  • CoinHuskerCoinHusker Posts: 5,030 ✭✭✭
    From the edge image the fields almost look concave. Are they?image
    Collecting coins, medals and currency featuring "The Sower"
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I wish they left the motto off the reverse yet I can understand why they had to include it. >>




    Why did they have to include it?

    I think it's essential. >>



    The original high relief saints did not have this motto. It clutters up the reverse design. Why do you think it's essential?



    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Would someone post a decent picture of the original 1907 Ultra High Relief for comparison purposes? >>



    image
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    image
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,957 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I wish they left the motto off the reverse yet I can understand why they had to include it. >>




    Why did they have to include it?

    I think it's essential. >>



    The original high relief saints did not have this motto. It clutters up the reverse design. Why do you think it's essential? >>



    I know legally they have to include it. I think it's stupid and messes up the design.
  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    You sure that says "IGWT"? I'm not seeing much of a tang on that "G". Looks more like a "C". And since that is an eagle...they eat fish...

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I wish they left the motto off the reverse yet I can understand why they had to include it. >>




    Why did they have to include it?

    I think it's essential. >>



    The original high relief saints did not have this motto. It clutters up the reverse design. Why do you think it's essential? >>



    Call me sappy, but I believe in God and like seeing In God We Trust on our coinage.

    On the other hand, I see your point about the aesthetics of clutter, as well as the historic significance of No Motto.
  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 12,875 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wish I could find a high rez pic of the 1907 Proof for better comparison.
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,957 ✭✭✭


    << <i>You sure that says "IGWT"? I'm not seeing much of a tang on that "G". Looks more like a "C". And since that is an eagle...they eat fish... >>



    I agree, fish it fine then.
  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    Was the original coin made in 90% coin gold? Because if it was, coin gold gets awfully hard when you try to mash it that much. It must have been an incredible process to stamp.
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Was the original coin made in 90% coin gold? Because if it was, coin gold gets awfully hard when you try to mash it that much. It must have been an incredible process to stamp. >>




    Mintage:
    Circulation strikes: 372,917
    Proofs: estimated 40-50

    Designer: Augustus Saint-Gaudens, modified later in the year by Charles E. Barber

    Diameter: ±34 millimeters

    Metal content:
    Gold - 90%
    Other - 10%

    Weight: ±516 grains (±33.4 grams)

  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    Clarification: I meant the original ultra high relief saint on the double thick eagle planchet.

    The specs you mention are for a typical high relief "34mm" saint.

    I'm wondering if the smaller (pattern?) coin was also 90% gold.
  • Time to save up for this baby! image
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Clarification: I meant the original ultra high relief saint on the double thick eagle planchet.

    The specs you mention are for a typical high relief "34mm" saint.

    I'm wondering if the smaller (pattern?) coin was also 90% gold. >>




    I looked in Breen's Encyclopedia and could not find anything on the proof's dimensions and weights.
  • UTTM07UTTM07 Posts: 313 ✭✭
    It's an excellent rendition. Other than the date not being MMVII, it is the best I could hope for.

    I wonder what it will look like in palladium...

    And I hope nobody in Congress realizes that that's not a cameo proof:

    There's more than a one-year negative limitation. "If the Secretary chooses to mint and issue the coins ... in gold during the first year of issue, no coins shall be minted and issued ... in palladium during that year." As to the gold coins: they "shall be issued only in proof versions."

    Also, keep in mind that this coin is smaller in diameter than the high relief pictured as a comparison. For a true comparison, you should look at the eagle sized pattern or the Ultra high reliefs.
  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    Palladium. If they go through with that, it's a reason to buy more of the gold issue.

    Sure, I have a bar of Indium. I have a crystal of Silicon. I have a button of Selenium.

    But i'm not really an element collector in the sense i'm going for the full 92...and don't really have an inclination for Palladium, the other other other white metal in coinage.

    Show me a high relief peace dollar in Palladium with some real fiery luster and I may consider changing my mind.

    Gold is the metal for this ultra high relief saint. Anything else feels very wrong.

    Link to an actual element collection

  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    Fifteen MCMVII 27mm diameter Extremely High Relief piece were struck during the 2nd week of February 1907. The alloy was standard .900 coin gold, not the .999 fine gold of the MMIX bullion piece. The originals took multiple strikes to bring up the design, but available mint document do not state the number of strikes or hydraulic pressure used. (For comparison, the EHR 34mm diameter pieces, approx 19 struck, took seven blows to bring up the design, and the pieces were annealed between strikes.)

    [If you want to know more about the originals, or the Saint-Gaudens/Roosevelt collaboration, see Renaissance of American Coinage 1905-1908 where you’ll find photos of all the original models, letters, etc. when they were made, who owned them, etc. Breen’s info is mostly out of date.]
  • veryfineveryfine Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭
    From what I can see, this is a surprisingly nice reissue, but I do have some problems with it.
    The detail is much crisper than the original, possibly as a result of the new technology. However, I wonder if St. Gaudens purposely sculpted the original relief with a more subtle touch. Perhaps his original pattern casts would shed some light on the subject.
    The modern mint loves to "strengthen" detail on coins, so I am skeptical.
    Despite my criticism, it's still a handsome reproduction.
  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That is a beautiful coin. It is a real fattie for sure. It either has to be more than an ounce of gold, or a tiny little round button to sport that much thickness for a .999 gold bullion piece. Will it be the same composition as the original or a .999 bullion piece? Anyone know?
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    To me, the 27mm originals look, "too small" for the relief. In the hand, they feel like a lump, rather than a coin. We'll see about the MMIX.
  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    I'm a little unclear about the physical process of striking and annealing.

    I suppose you have to actually take the partially struck coin out of the die, put it into an oven, heat it up to whatever hundred degrees and then cool it down slowly.
    But what confuses me is how you get a partially struck coin back into the press in exactly the right position. 7 times over?!? Was the coin extracted from the press to anneal it? What keeps the rotational alignment consistent? How was it done?
  • UTTM07UTTM07 Posts: 313 ✭✭
    That's why the UHRs are mushier than the High Reliefs. The MMIX even appears to have this mushiness, making it more authentic. The .999 gold also matches the look of the originals due to their dipping in nitric acid during annealing, which removed the copper from the skin of the coin.
  • veryfineveryfine Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭


    << <i>That's why the UHRs are mushier than the High Reliefs. The MMIX even appears to have this mushiness, making it more authentic. The .999 gold also matches the look of the originals due to their dipping in nitric acid during annealing, which removed the copper from the skin of the coin. >>


    But the details on this new 1909 UHR appear to be too sharp when compared to the original 1907 UHR. Based on the images, I prefer the look of the original.
  • ManMan Posts: 1,002
    Beautiful coin, it would be cool to put it in a 3-D scanner to get all the exact measurements.

    My college has one that can also print in 3-D, this would be cool to scan.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>To me, the 27mm originals look, "too small" for the relief. In the hand, they feel like a lump, rather than a coin. >>



    That's why these will be so neat and popular. They're not just another coin.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    OK. Two questions:

    1) How was the annealing and striking done multiple times; and
    2) Why do they look “mushy?”


    1) The 1907 EHR originals ( and HR pieces made later in the year) were struck in a plain collar for all except the final blow. For the intermediate strikes, the coin was removed from the press, heated to cherry red, quenched in weak nitric acid, then carefully aligned on the obverse (anvil) die, and struck again. Many HR pieces show ghosts of previous strikes. For the final strike, the 3-part lettered collar was used, then collar and coin removed together so the edge was not damaged.

    2) Saint-Gaudens’ first models (from 1906) were really experiments and were so labeled on the back. Overall they were softer and less detailed than the final Very High Relief models of March 1907. The large degree of reduction necessary also softens the final coin, although the MMIX version seem much sharper than the MCMVII original – likely due to better technology.

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