<< <i>Very few 2008 plats being offered for sale on the Bay. Is this an indication the flippers are staying away? >>
Hard to imagine there would be any flipper incentive here as high prices have crushed the collector base. I'll bet a few jump in at the end of the season (whenever that may be) and mintages still look low. Even as a collector, I have my doubts these plats will do anything for a long, long time. I just like 'em! >>
May be opportunities, such as that which I mentioned above, to pick them up at below orig. issue. Of course, the major risk is that they sell them forever and the base metal goes down. >>
That's the risk for the flippers, but not for the rest of us. The base metal would have to drop a LOT for the Mint to lower its prices, and if the prices stay high, the mintages will stay low. Great for crowning 2008 the new King of the series! >>
If 2008 becomes King, it will be interesting to see what happens to the '04 prices. I've wanted to pick up the '04s but not for moon money.
I understand (I think?) the "King" moniker is attached to the lowest mintage. However, if your looking at actual #'s of PR70's and ratio of 70's to overall graded pop, the early years (1990's) are "King." Right?
<< <i>My UNCs just arrived. My credit card is bleeding................... >>
But don't it hurt so good? That's great to know these coins really exist, though.
Re: drel3ree's comment/question, to me it just depends on if you play the plastic game. Personally, I don't. ALL of the these proofs (except for the occasional car crash victim) are of such high quality that I think the whole 69 versus 70 game is going to crash hard. I may be totally wrong about that, but when I see $50 PF-70 2003s being offered for $2500 or more on eBay, I just think "I hope some sucker doesn't actually fall for that." Now, I don't really know about the 90s issues, but my guess is that graded pops are so low because mintages are so high, i.e. few people have bothered to send them in for grading. Furthermore, the surviving populations of the 90s proofs are probably ALWAYS going to be high, even if half of them get melted.
Bullion is a totally different ball game and I have no qualifications to speak to it. Only about 6 people in the world collect the bullion plats, most of them on this forum, but I can't see these appreciating for several decades, if ever, even if only 10 survive from each year. Again, I'm probably wrong.
My UNCs just arrived. My credit card is bleeding...................
ok, ok, ok..............ya talked me into it..............I'll order my sets today..................before any returns have time to make it back..............
But don't it hurt so good?
Um, I don't think that that was what Mellenkamp was referring to when he wrote the song...........
ALL of the these proofs (except for the occasional car crash victim) are of such high quality that I think the whole 69 versus 70 game is going to crash hard.
I don't know that the 70 game in Moderns will ever go away entirely, but the herd is certainly being thinned where it concerns Plats!!
Now, I don't really know about the 90s issues, but my guess is that graded pops are so low because mintages are so high, i.e. few people have bothered to send them in for grading.
Could be, GritsMan. Could be. But the whole price escalation thing combined with the Mint's perpetual overestimation of how many Plat series are viable - those things have me plenty worried. I feel like a de-stuffed punching bag.
The higher mintage numbers of the earlier issues may no longer be relevant, if enough of them are getting cashed in - and I do believe that they are. My strategy is to pick them off one by one, if my finances can ever afford it.
Bullion is a totally different ball game and I have no qualifications to speak to it. Only about 6 people in the world collect the bullion plats, most of them on this forum, but I can't see these appreciating for several decades, if ever, even if only 10 survive from each year. Again, I'm probably wrong.
I started out as a bullion Plat collector, because the lower mintages were happening in that group back in '00 and '03. I switched over to proofs when I saw them dropping off in numbers. Then I decided to collect them all. No sooner had that happened - then the Mint decided to throw Burnished Uncs into the pot.
Bless the Mint. They never do anyone any favors.
2008 - In search of the King.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
"But the whole price escalation thing combined with the Mint's perpetual overestimation of how many Plat series are viable - those things have me plenty worried. I feel like a de-stuffed punching bag."
Worried about what, exactly, jmski52? Nobody collecting them, or prices going too high to collect them? Both things concern me in the short term, but I can't help believing the proof series will be highly desirable in the future. It's easily the most beautiful series going.
I'd love to hear your inside perspective on the bullion series, too. I just can't afford to collect these, but do you sense both a scarcity and demand for high-quality bullion coins of the 90s? Also, do you pick them off only by looking for graded coins, or do you search for raw coins? If the latter, do you FIND a lot of raw coins to look through? And if so, are many in good shape? I know--too many questions, but I find this series very shadowy and intriguing. I have this image of them all stuffed away in Suisse vaults where no one will ever see them again.
"Bless the Mint. They never do anyone any favors."
Well, not on PURPOSE anyway! I suspect some 2008 favors are in the making...
Worried about what, exactly, jmski52? Nobody collecting them, or prices going too high to collect them?
GritsMan, I worry that they will be liquidated and melted before I can find the money to get the ones I need/want. I don't worry about nobody collecting them - that's just not a concern of mine.
I'd love to hear your inside perspective on the bullion series, too. I just can't afford to collect these, but do you sense both a scarcity and demand for high-quality bullion coins of the 90s?
My perspective is that they are a U.S. Coin Series that not very many people collect and demand is minimal. Because of the low collector demand, I would expect that the rise in platinum prices will continue to bring more of these out of the woodwork over time. In fact, the longer that high prices continue, the more likely it is that a market anomaly will occur in which the high-mintage issues become rarities without anyone being the wiser.
To me, this simply means that ANY Plat is a good speculation at this point. We simply won't know which coin WILL BE the King until it's too late to accumulate them. The market will only reveal the rarities over time. Sooner or later in our lifetimes, I would bet that you will see auction houses bringing these coins into their offerings. That will be a good indicator that demand has caught up with scarcity. I would speculate that there will always be a few wealthy collectors for every coin series, and Plats are certainly worthy in terms of value and design.
Added: I just wanted to note that the Regular Issue Uncs from 1997 through 2003 have an attractive mix of brilliant accents and devices against regular unc fields. Compared to the 2007 Reverse Proof, which I felt was overkill on Liberty's entire face, or the Burnished "W" Uncs (and current Regular Issue Uncs) which are a boring monotone finish over the entire coin surface - the early Uncs display a very attractive artistic effect, which is nicely contrasted against the Proofs of the same Era.
Also, from a market capitalization standpoint, when you consider the huge amount of money invested in Morgan Dollars (for example) compared to Plats, you begin to see a significant disparity in terms of relative value, in my opinion. Scarcity, condition, design, and intrinsic value - all of these factors weigh heavily in favor of Plats when you consider relative values. At some point, there will be a general recognition by the market that a collection of Plats is beyond most well-heeled collectors means. That's when the fun begins. You will see them get respect, almost overnight.
do you pick them off only by looking for graded coins, or do you search for raw coins?
Right now, there are PCGS-69 coins available. I expect these to begin disappearing and there will come a day when they are not to be found in any of the "common" dates. I started buying a few raw coins, but I see no reason to spend time weeding through raw coins at these prices. For some of the earlier regular issue Unc Plats, there might not be much choice but to grab what's available and upgrade later.
I find this series very shadowy and intriguing. I have this image of them all stuffed away in Suisse vaults where no one will ever see them again.
I never considered that, but now that you mention it, I would guess that a few have left the country. After all, they are bullion coins, and that is the purpose of bullion - a store of value. Intriguing, indeed!
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
This such a fun series to talk about and yet as we all know, the interest isn't there yet. That's why it's surprising to hear you say you worry you won't be able to get some of them. Yet, I also have a similar worry since I collect the proofs in OGP. I'm still missing three earlier dates for my collection and I haven't seen two of them on the Bay or other major outlets for about six months now. Yikes! I'm kickin' myself for not grabbing one of them when platinum was down around $1300/oz!
I'm glad you reminded me of the devices of those early unc plats, too. Another board member actually refers to them as "reverse proofs", and he's not far off. I have only one earlier bullion coin--a '99--and it indeed very nice. And you make perfect sense getting slabbed 69s when they are essentially the same price as raw pieces.
I'd be curious which bullion denominations you like the most. I've focused on the 1/2s mostly, but have seeped into the 1/4s a bit. It's easy to see how either the 1 oz (for low mintages/high attrition) or 1/10 oz (for higher collector demand) might easily be good plays, too.
I'd be curious which bullion denominations you like the most. I've focused on the 1/2s mostly, but have seeped into the 1/4s a bit. It's easy to see how either the 1 oz (for low mintages/high attrition) or 1/10 oz (for higher collector demand) might easily be good plays, too.
Well, my plan was to collect the whole, complete series - and it still is. I've made some strategic decisions that (I hope) will help me finance that goal. I've bought multiples of the coins that I thought had the best potential whenever I had any extra cash flow. This has helped me weather the price spike, and it has allowed me to "keep my powder dry" for more opportunities.
I use the same approach in the gold and silver American Eagles, mainly to help finance my platinum "problem". But, with the Mint's aggessive marketing of 3 different Plat Series, it has forced me into some wierd purchasing patterns - multiples of some and none of some others. Of course, with the higher prices, my priorities are on the larger coins (1 oz. and 1/2 oz.) first. That's just a shot-in-the-dark judgement call, trying for the most improbable ones first.
It remains to be seen how it will all turn out. With the inflation issue, I'm ever-more-so inclined to use my retirement money to pursue this collection. It hasn't hurt me thus far. Platinum has been good to me.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I just bought a 2008 $25 Eagle Platinum Proof PCGS PR69Dcam FS for $674.95 minus the $168.74 that I am going to get back from Microsoft. The final cost including shipping $506.21. I only have to wait 60 days for my money back.
E-Bay has already sent me a message about the refund from Microsoft!
<< <i>My UNCs just arrived. My credit card is bleeding................... >>
But don't it hurt so good? That's great to know these coins really exist, though.
Re: drel3ree's comment/question, to me it just depends on if you play the plastic game. Personally, I don't. ALL of the these proofs (except for the occasional car crash victim) are of such high quality that I think the whole 69 versus 70 game is going to crash hard. I may be totally wrong about that, but when I see $50 PF-70 2003s being offered for $2500 or more on eBay, I just think "I hope some sucker doesn't actually fall for that." Now, I don't really know about the 90s issues, but my guess is that graded pops are so low because mintages are so high, i.e. few people have bothered to send them in for grading. Furthermore, the surviving populations of the 90s proofs are probably ALWAYS going to be high, even if half of them get melted >>
Totally agree regarding the plastic game. Seems foolish for such high quality moderns!
<< <i>I just bought a 2008 $25 Eagle Platinum Proof PCGS PR69Dcam FS for $674.95 minus the $168.74 that I am going to get back from Microsoft. The final cost including shipping $506.21. I only have to wait 60 days for my money back.
E-Bay has already sent me a message about the refund from Microsoft!
Good Deal! >>
How do you get this Microsoft discount? What is it? Thanks!
<< <i>I just bought a 2008 $25 Eagle Platinum Proof PCGS PR69Dcam FS for $674.95 minus the $168.74 that I am going to get back from Microsoft. The final cost including shipping $506.21. I only have to wait 60 days for my money back.
E-Bay has already sent me a message about the refund from Microsoft!
Good Deal! >>
How do you get this Microsoft discount? What is it? Thanks! >>
Yes, how bizarre does that sound??? Have they finally given up on the Windows operating system, or is this part of their charity efforts?
Was I hallucinating, or did a PCGS-69 1/2 oz. 2004-W Proof Plat sell for $1,550.35 yesterday? That's about half the market price (until now). I should have been paying closer attention.
Regarding 69 vs. 70 in Plats, I am just fine with 69 as a standard grade for collection purposes. PCGS preferably, since NGC-69 is valued less than a raw example in most cases. I do believe that it's worth the money to have a set of trained eyeballs that have already examined a Plat at least once before I buy an older date.
If I can submit a Plat (that I already own in OGP) and get a 70, so much the better.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Was I hallucinating, or did a PCGS-69 1/2 oz. 2004-W Proof Plat sell for $1,550.35 yesterday? That's about half the market price (until now). I should have been paying closer attention.
Regarding 69 vs. 70 in Plats, I am just fine with 69 as a standard grade for collection purposes. PCGS preferably, since NGC-69 is valued less than a raw example in most cases. I do believe that it's worth the money to have a set of trained eyeballs that have already examined a Plat at least once before I buy an older date.
If I can submit a Plat (that I already own in OGP) and get a 70, so much the better. >>
Holy Cow! That was a steal. We ALL should have been paying closer attention to that one. I do think the 2004s are going to take a bit of a dive here, though--especially if 2008 sales continue at such poor levels. But this seemed, what, a full $1,000 below recent levels?
Re: grading. I don't have a lot of experience with the different companies, but I did buy one NGC-graded 69 plat that I was a little disappointed with. Have not had that with any PCGS coins so far.
<< <i>Was I hallucinating, or did a PCGS-69 1/2 oz. 2004-W Proof Plat sell for $1,550.35 yesterday? That's about half the market price (until now). I should have been paying closer attention. >>
You wasn't hallucinating.
I had the high bid going into the final 15 minutes. I should have set a higher minimum!
Had I not already have one, I'd have sniped that puppy!
<< <i>I just bought a 2008 $25 Eagle Platinum Proof PCGS PR69Dcam FS for $674.95 minus the $168.74 that I am going to get back from Microsoft. The final cost including shipping $506.21. I only have to wait 60 days for my money back.
E-Bay has already sent me a message about the refund from Microsoft!
Good Deal! >>
How do you get this Microsoft discount? What is it? Thanks! >>
Yes, how bizarre does that sound??? Have they finally given up on the Windows operating system, or is this part of their charity efforts? >>
Go through www.live.com and it will bring you to Microsoft search. Type in what you want, ex. 2008 platinum and you will see e-Bay. If you see, 25%, click on e-Bay and it will bring you to e-Bay. Find what you need and you still should see the rebate. From there you use the Buy Now and it will bring you to the page where you will see you rebate and then, you click to buy. There is a link for the directions you have to follow. You have to go through Microsoft's search engine to get the rebate
Low price for sure and missed it because of some domestic crap even though I had been tracking. That is too low, but as per GritsMan I think this one may take a bit of a wash - just not much.Maybe 2000-2100, let's see.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
I just checked my Live Account with Microsoft and I have over $300 coming back to my Pay Pal account from Microsoft. I still have one more purchase that I can make since the limit is three. The two coins I bought were less than the Mint and spot. I also can see it in my account with e-Bay.
Just got my 1/2-oz unc-W and excitedly opened the box, only to find...
4 major hits on Liberty's crown.
This one's got to go back. I recall others complaining about the lack of quality control on the proof plats. What are people seeing so far with the unc-Ws? The 1/2-ounce gold unc-w I ordered also has a little flake or ding on the reverse field. First time I've had problems with my Mint orders, but I guess I've been lucky.
FedEx man was just here and delivered my 1 oz UNC coin and it's perfect. I have never had to return anything to the Mint. Hope the 1/2er is in the same condition.
<< <i>How long is this Microsoft/PayPal/Ebay 25%-off promotion good for? >>
I tried it but when the search page came up I didn't see a 25% link. Something in the back of my mind is telling me to watch out for a phishing scheme, 25% off is just to good to be true.
I see the 25% off link. It's a Sponsored Site link, but you'll get different sponsors everytime you do a search. So you may need to do your search multiple times before the ebay link shows up.
I believe the rebate now is 20%. It is for real. I have it listed in my e-Bay account and also in my Microsoft Live Account. It even tells me when I will get two of my rebates that I placed yesterday, They will put in my Pay Pal account September 6th. The rebate I got today is 20%. Microsoft owes me over $400.
<< <i>Just got my 1/2-oz unc-W and excitedly opened the box, only to find...
4 major hits on Liberty's crown.
This one's got to go back. I recall others complaining about the lack of quality control on the proof plats. What are people seeing so far with the unc-Ws? The 1/2-ounce gold unc-w I ordered also has a little flake or ding on the reverse field. First time I've had problems with my Mint orders, but I guess I've been lucky. >>
Wow, I've never had to return anything either but my unc has hits on her nose, under left eye, and on both "I"s in United and America on the reverse. I wonder if this is common...
Wow- she's got measles! I ordered two 1/2 ounce coins. One is dinged up (returned today) and the other has a minor spot on the front. I'll keep it for now, and order some more to inspect... What a shame!
Eric
EAC member since 2011, one third of the way through my 1793 large cent type set
I have seen the rebate fluctuate between 10% and 35% over the past two weeks. If you don't purchase anything within an hour of signing in the offer disappears. If you sign out and sign in again it is valid for another hour. You only get three purchase with this rebate so choose wisely. I believe Microsoft is trying to steer business to its live search ( increase awareness ) as Google has kicked its butt. Also if you make a purchase and sign out and sign back in you can hit the rebate again. Max rebate is $250 per purchase so anything over $1000 loses some of the advantage percentage wise. I have opened a new account tot ake advantage of this offer. I don't know when it will end but what a gift
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>Wow- she's got measles! I ordered two 1/2 ounce coins. One is dinged up (returned today) and the other has a minor spot on the front. I'll keep it for now, and order some more to inspect... What a shame!
Eric >>
Hm...sounds like this problem is widespread. I wonder what's going on? I'll report back when I get my replacement. Oh, and thanks for the pics, Rockdogz!
Yes, this is a common problem with these coins. I think the platinum may be harder than the gold and these pinpoint changes may be as a result of loss of the original surface of the die in pinpoint fashion. This along with inner edge of the rim changes/defects are what get the equivalent of 68/69s in TPG grading.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
Yes, platinum is MUCH harder than gold or silver and I read somewhere that the proofs are struck as many as NINE times when being produced. I remember seeing a video about the mint and they had an interview with the woman who does the QC - I wonder what some of the ones that she rejects look like given what we are receiving...
Eric
EAC member since 2011, one third of the way through my 1793 large cent type set
Wow, they picked a good day (for them) to announce pricing:
Mintage and product limits for both the American Buffalo Gold Proof and Uncirculated Coins will be determined by customer demand. Pricing for all options is listed below.
Option Price
Proof One Ounce $1,199.95
Proof Half Ounce $ 619.95
Proof Quarter Ounce $ 329.95
Proof Tenth-Ounce $ 159.95
Proof Four-Coin Set $2,219.95
Uncirculated One Ounce $1,059.95
Uncirculated Half-Ounce $ 539.95
Uncirculated Quarter-Ounce $ 289.95
Uncirculated Tenth-Ounce $ 129.95
Uncirculated Four-Coin Set $1,959.95
Edited to add, I guess that is about the same as the AGE, but those proof prices just seemed high to me....
Thanks for the news. Going to be interesting to see how they do--and if they totally gut the unc-w sales. I think they're going to have a major impact.
All I really know is finding any platinum material at a coin show is just about impossible and brick and mortor stores don't seem to carry the stuff at all.....
So mintages are a tough thing.....
Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
Comments
<< <i>Platinum prices may drop, but I wouldn't count on it.
Possible miners strike >>
Thanks for the link, Overdate. The problems look there to stay, at least for near-term.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Very few 2008 plats being offered for sale on the Bay. Is this an indication the flippers are staying away? >>
Hard to imagine there would be any flipper incentive here as high prices have crushed the collector base. I'll bet a few jump in at the end of the season (whenever that may be) and mintages still look low. Even as a collector, I have my doubts these plats will do anything for a long, long time. I just like 'em! >>
May be opportunities, such as that which I mentioned above, to pick them up at below orig. issue. Of course, the major risk is that they sell them forever and the base metal goes down. >>
That's the risk for the flippers, but not for the rest of us. The base metal would have to drop a LOT for the Mint to lower its prices, and if the prices stay high, the mintages will stay low. Great for crowning 2008 the new King of the series! >>
If 2008 becomes King, it will be interesting to see what happens to the '04 prices. I've wanted to pick up the '04s but not for moon money.
My credit card is bleeding...................
<< <i>My UNCs just arrived.
My credit card is bleeding................... >>
Re: drel3ree's comment/question, to me it just depends on if you play the plastic game. Personally, I don't. ALL of the these proofs (except for the occasional car crash victim) are of such high quality that I think the whole 69 versus 70 game is going to crash hard. I may be totally wrong about that, but when I see $50 PF-70 2003s being offered for $2500 or more on eBay, I just think "I hope some sucker doesn't actually fall for that." Now, I don't really know about the 90s issues, but my guess is that graded pops are so low because mintages are so high, i.e. few people have bothered to send them in for grading. Furthermore, the surviving populations of the 90s proofs are probably ALWAYS going to be high, even if half of them get melted.
Bullion is a totally different ball game and I have no qualifications to speak to it. Only about 6 people in the world collect the bullion plats, most of them on this forum, but I can't see these appreciating for several decades, if ever, even if only 10 survive from each year. Again, I'm probably wrong.
My credit card is bleeding...................
ok, ok, ok..............ya talked me into it..............I'll order my sets today..................before any returns have time to make it back..............
But don't it hurt so good?
Um, I don't think that that was what Mellenkamp was referring to when he wrote the song...........
ALL of the these proofs (except for the occasional car crash victim) are of such high quality that I think the whole 69 versus 70 game is going to crash hard.
I don't know that the 70 game in Moderns will ever go away entirely, but the herd is certainly being thinned where it concerns Plats!!
Now, I don't really know about the 90s issues, but my guess is that graded pops are so low because mintages are so high, i.e. few people have bothered to send them in for grading.
Could be, GritsMan. Could be. But the whole price escalation thing combined with the Mint's perpetual overestimation of how many Plat series are viable - those things have me plenty worried. I feel like a de-stuffed punching bag.
The higher mintage numbers of the earlier issues may no longer be relevant, if enough of them are getting cashed in - and I do believe that they are. My strategy is to pick them off one by one, if my finances can ever afford it.
Bullion is a totally different ball game and I have no qualifications to speak to it. Only about 6 people in the world collect the bullion plats, most of them on this forum, but I can't see these appreciating for several decades, if ever, even if only 10 survive from each year. Again, I'm probably wrong.
I started out as a bullion Plat collector, because the lower mintages were happening in that group back in '00 and '03. I switched over to proofs when I saw them dropping off in numbers. Then I decided to collect them all. No sooner had that happened - then the Mint decided to throw Burnished Uncs into the pot.
Bless the Mint. They never do anyone any favors.
2008 - In search of the King.
I knew it would happen.
Worried about what, exactly, jmski52? Nobody collecting them, or prices going too high to collect them? Both things concern me in the short term, but I can't help believing the proof series will be highly desirable in the future. It's easily the most beautiful series going.
I'd love to hear your inside perspective on the bullion series, too. I just can't afford to collect these, but do you sense both a scarcity and demand for high-quality bullion coins of the 90s? Also, do you pick them off only by looking for graded coins, or do you search for raw coins? If the latter, do you FIND a lot of raw coins to look through? And if so, are many in good shape? I know--too many questions, but I find this series very shadowy and intriguing. I have this image of them all stuffed away in Suisse vaults where no one will ever see them again.
"Bless the Mint. They never do anyone any favors."
Well, not on PURPOSE anyway! I suspect some 2008 favors are in the making...
Thanks!
GritsMan, I worry that they will be liquidated and melted before I can find the money to get the ones I need/want. I don't worry about nobody collecting them - that's just not a concern of mine.
I'd love to hear your inside perspective on the bullion series, too. I just can't afford to collect these, but do you sense both a scarcity and demand for high-quality bullion coins of the 90s?
My perspective is that they are a U.S. Coin Series that not very many people collect and demand is minimal. Because of the low collector demand, I would expect that the rise in platinum prices will continue to bring more of these out of the woodwork over time. In fact, the longer that high prices continue, the more likely it is that a market anomaly will occur in which the high-mintage issues become rarities without anyone being the wiser.
To me, this simply means that ANY Plat is a good speculation at this point. We simply won't know which coin WILL BE the King until it's too late to accumulate them. The market will only reveal the rarities over time. Sooner or later in our lifetimes, I would bet that you will see auction houses bringing these coins into their offerings. That will be a good indicator that demand has caught up with scarcity. I would speculate that there will always be a few wealthy collectors for every coin series, and Plats are certainly worthy in terms of value and design.
Added: I just wanted to note that the Regular Issue Uncs from 1997 through 2003 have an attractive mix of brilliant accents and devices against regular unc fields. Compared to the 2007 Reverse Proof, which I felt was overkill on Liberty's entire face, or the Burnished "W" Uncs (and current Regular Issue Uncs) which are a boring monotone finish over the entire coin surface - the early Uncs display a very attractive artistic effect, which is nicely contrasted against the Proofs of the same Era.
Also, from a market capitalization standpoint, when you consider the huge amount of money invested in Morgan Dollars (for example) compared to Plats, you begin to see a significant disparity in terms of relative value, in my opinion. Scarcity, condition, design, and intrinsic value - all of these factors weigh heavily in favor of Plats when you consider relative values. At some point, there will be a general recognition by the market that a collection of Plats is beyond most well-heeled collectors means. That's when the fun begins. You will see them get respect, almost overnight.
do you pick them off only by looking for graded coins, or do you search for raw coins?
Right now, there are PCGS-69 coins available. I expect these to begin disappearing and there will come a day when they are not to be found in any of the "common" dates. I started buying a few raw coins, but I see no reason to spend time weeding through raw coins at these prices. For some of the earlier regular issue Unc Plats, there might not be much choice but to grab what's available and upgrade later.
I find this series very shadowy and intriguing. I have this image of them all stuffed away in Suisse vaults where no one will ever see them again.
I never considered that, but now that you mention it, I would guess that a few have left the country. After all, they are bullion coins, and that is the purpose of bullion - a store of value. Intriguing, indeed!
I knew it would happen.
This such a fun series to talk about and yet as we all know, the interest isn't there yet. That's why it's surprising to hear you say you worry you won't be able to get some of them. Yet, I also have a similar worry since I collect the proofs in OGP. I'm still missing three earlier dates for my collection and I haven't seen two of them on the Bay or other major outlets for about six months now. Yikes! I'm kickin' myself for not grabbing one of them when platinum was down around $1300/oz!
I'm glad you reminded me of the devices of those early unc plats, too. Another board member actually refers to them as "reverse proofs", and he's not far off. I have only one earlier bullion coin--a '99--and it indeed very nice. And you make perfect sense getting slabbed 69s when they are essentially the same price as raw pieces.
I'd be curious which bullion denominations you like the most. I've focused on the 1/2s mostly, but have seeped into the 1/4s a bit. It's easy to see how either the 1 oz (for low mintages/high attrition) or 1/10 oz (for higher collector demand) might easily be good plays, too.
Thanks again--onward!
Well, just Love coins, period.
Well, my plan was to collect the whole, complete series - and it still is. I've made some strategic decisions that (I hope) will help me finance that goal. I've bought multiples of the coins that I thought had the best potential whenever I had any extra cash flow. This has helped me weather the price spike, and it has allowed me to "keep my powder dry" for more opportunities.
I use the same approach in the gold and silver American Eagles, mainly to help finance my platinum "problem". But, with the Mint's aggessive marketing of 3 different Plat Series, it has forced me into some wierd purchasing patterns - multiples of some and none of some others. Of course, with the higher prices, my priorities are on the larger coins (1 oz. and 1/2 oz.) first. That's just a shot-in-the-dark judgement call, trying for the most improbable ones first.
It remains to be seen how it will all turn out. With the inflation issue, I'm ever-more-so inclined to use my retirement money to pursue this collection. It hasn't hurt me thus far. Platinum has been good to me.
I knew it would happen.
E-Bay has already sent me a message about the refund from Microsoft!
Good Deal!
<< <i>
<< <i>My UNCs just arrived.
My credit card is bleeding................... >>
Re: drel3ree's comment/question, to me it just depends on if you play the plastic game. Personally, I don't. ALL of the these proofs (except for the occasional car crash victim) are of such high quality that I think the whole 69 versus 70 game is going to crash hard. I may be totally wrong about that, but when I see $50 PF-70 2003s being offered for $2500 or more on eBay, I just think "I hope some sucker doesn't actually fall for that." Now, I don't really know about the 90s issues, but my guess is that graded pops are so low because mintages are so high, i.e. few people have bothered to send them in for grading. Furthermore, the surviving populations of the 90s proofs are probably ALWAYS going to be high, even if half of them get melted >>
Totally agree regarding the plastic game. Seems foolish for such high quality moderns!
<< <i>I just bought a 2008 $25 Eagle Platinum Proof PCGS PR69Dcam FS for $674.95 minus the $168.74 that I am going to get back from Microsoft. The final cost including shipping $506.21. I only have to wait 60 days for my money back.
E-Bay has already sent me a message about the refund from Microsoft!
Good Deal! >>
How do you get this Microsoft discount? What is it? Thanks!
<< <i>
<< <i>I just bought a 2008 $25 Eagle Platinum Proof PCGS PR69Dcam FS for $674.95 minus the $168.74 that I am going to get back from Microsoft. The final cost including shipping $506.21. I only have to wait 60 days for my money back.
E-Bay has already sent me a message about the refund from Microsoft!
Good Deal! >>
How do you get this Microsoft discount? What is it? Thanks! >>
Yes, how bizarre does that sound??? Have they finally given up on the Windows operating system, or is this part of their charity efforts?
Regarding 69 vs. 70 in Plats, I am just fine with 69 as a standard grade for collection purposes. PCGS preferably, since NGC-69 is valued less than a raw example in most cases. I do believe that it's worth the money to have a set of trained eyeballs that have already examined a Plat at least once before I buy an older date.
If I can submit a Plat (that I already own in OGP) and get a 70, so much the better.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Was I hallucinating, or did a PCGS-69 1/2 oz. 2004-W Proof Plat sell for $1,550.35 yesterday? That's about half the market price (until now). I should have been paying closer attention.
Regarding 69 vs. 70 in Plats, I am just fine with 69 as a standard grade for collection purposes. PCGS preferably, since NGC-69 is valued less than a raw example in most cases. I do believe that it's worth the money to have a set of trained eyeballs that have already examined a Plat at least once before I buy an older date.
If I can submit a Plat (that I already own in OGP) and get a 70, so much the better. >>
Holy Cow! That was a steal. We ALL should have been paying closer attention to that one. I do think the 2004s are going to take a bit of a dive here, though--especially if 2008 sales continue at such poor levels. But this seemed, what, a full $1,000 below recent levels?
Re: grading. I don't have a lot of experience with the different companies, but I did buy one NGC-graded 69 plat that I was a little disappointed with. Have not had that with any PCGS coins so far.
<< <i>Was I hallucinating, or did a PCGS-69 1/2 oz. 2004-W Proof Plat sell for $1,550.35 yesterday? That's about half the market price (until now). I should have been paying closer attention.
You wasn't hallucinating.
I had the high bid going into the final 15 minutes. I should have set a higher minimum!
Had I not already have one, I'd have sniped that puppy!
2004 W $50 PR PROOF PLATINUM EAGLE PCGS PR69 DCAM for $1550.35
Would be $1300 with the microsoft rebate!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I just bought a 2008 $25 Eagle Platinum Proof PCGS PR69Dcam FS for $674.95 minus the $168.74 that I am going to get back from Microsoft. The final cost including shipping $506.21. I only have to wait 60 days for my money back.
E-Bay has already sent me a message about the refund from Microsoft!
Good Deal! >>
How do you get this Microsoft discount? What is it? Thanks! >>
Yes, how bizarre does that sound??? Have they finally given up on the Windows operating system, or is this part of their charity efforts? >>
Go through www.live.com and it will bring you to Microsoft search. Type in what you want, ex. 2008 platinum and you will see e-Bay. If you see, 25%, click on e-Bay and it will bring you to e-Bay. Find what you need and you still should see the rebate. From there you use the Buy Now and it will bring you to the page where you will see you rebate and then, you click to buy. There is a link for the directions you have to follow. You have to go through Microsoft's search engine to get the rebate
Do not buy unless you see the Microsoft logo.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Good Deal!
4 major hits on Liberty's crown.
This one's got to go back. I recall others complaining about the lack of quality control on the proof plats. What are people seeing so far with the unc-Ws? The 1/2-ounce gold unc-w I ordered also has a little flake or ding on the reverse field. First time I've had problems with my Mint orders, but I guess I've been lucky.
PS: I like the Germanic Eagle on the reverse.
<< <i>How long is this Microsoft/PayPal/Ebay 25%-off promotion good for? >>
I tried it but when the search page came up I didn't see a 25% link. Something in the back of my mind is telling me to watch out for a phishing scheme, 25% off is just to good to be true.
Terms and Conditions
<< <i>Just got my 1/2-oz unc-W and excitedly opened the box, only to find...
4 major hits on Liberty's crown.
This one's got to go back. I recall others complaining about the lack of quality control on the proof plats. What are people seeing so far with the unc-Ws? The 1/2-ounce gold unc-w I ordered also has a little flake or ding on the reverse field. First time I've had problems with my Mint orders, but I guess I've been lucky. >>
Wow, I've never had to return anything either but my unc has hits on her nose, under left eye, and on both "I"s in United and America on the reverse.
I wonder if this is common...
Reverse
Obverse
Eric
<< <i>Wow- she's got measles! I ordered two 1/2 ounce coins. One is dinged up (returned today) and the other has a minor spot on the front. I'll keep it for now, and order some more to inspect... What a shame!
Eric >>
Hm...sounds like this problem is widespread. I wonder what's going on? I'll report back when I get my replacement. Oh, and thanks for the pics, Rockdogz!
Well, just Love coins, period.
Eric
97=36,993 (18)
98=19,847 (20)
99=19,133 (37)
00=15,651 (93)
01=12,174 (35)
02=12,365 (41)
03= 9,534 (56)
04= 7,161 (56)
05= 8,104 (31)
06= 9,229 (37fs/154)
07= 7,964 (55fs/112)
08= 1,560 (28fs/32)
Please correct me if I'm off.
Edited to include # of PCGS PR70's (#)
Thanks, Dennis
Mintage and product limits for both the American Buffalo Gold Proof and Uncirculated Coins will be determined by customer demand. Pricing for all options is listed below.
Option
Price
Proof One Ounce
$1,199.95
Proof Half Ounce
$ 619.95
Proof Quarter Ounce
$ 329.95
Proof Tenth-Ounce
$ 159.95
Proof Four-Coin Set
$2,219.95
Uncirculated One Ounce
$1,059.95
Uncirculated Half-Ounce
$ 539.95
Uncirculated Quarter-Ounce
$ 289.95
Uncirculated Tenth-Ounce
$ 129.95
Uncirculated Four-Coin Set
$1,959.95
Edited to add, I guess that is about the same as the AGE, but those proof prices just seemed high to me....
1 oz: 275
1/2: 263
1/4: 312
1/10: 431
Low! Low! Low! Low!
<< <i>Those are actually higher then I would have figured..... >>
Yes but how many were returned, it sounds like a good number judging from this board.
So mintages are a tough thing.....
<< <i>1st Week's Unc-W Plat Numbers, hot off the press:
1 oz: 275
1/2: 263
1/4: 312
1/10: 431
Low! Low! Low! Low! >>
Are the 4-coin sets included in your figures?
<< <i>
<< <i>Those are actually higher then I would have figured..... >>
Yes but how many were returned, it sounds like a good number judging from this board. >>
How can any have been returned at this point? They just started shipping them last week!