True but on average it pays to buy when premium over spot is as thin as possible. >>
Everyone has their strategy on things like this and I am not one to say any is better but for me I tend to like a buy on a spike down and hope for a recovery. It does pays to watch the Mint pricing and catch the coin right after the Mint reprices down. I guess overall it depends on how you hold your coins. If you are planning a flash flip then the narrower margin over spot can be beneficial. If you are holding more long term then maybe not so effective.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
It's highly unlikely that a run-of-the-mill First Spouse will attract any interest ten years from now, even if it has a mintage of 3,000 and is papered in every label imaginable.
But if you like 'em, why not enjoy them? Personally, I'm excited about the new silver eagle set, even though I don't expect it'll be worth much over melt. These are beautiful coins, and I also agree with jmski that the Mint should stick with some consistent series with few "specials" mixed in.
You may be right on the 'run of the mill" Spouses but I can't help but think that no matter how dull the design the mintage numbers will power through to hold value in the coin. We shall see. I think the SF silver will hold well over melt in the future but I am not so sure how much over issue price though.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
I noticed at the mint site the following message for 2012 ASE Proof: "This product is temporarily unavailable for product repricing." The last price was $59.95. Any guess what the price would be next?
I agree with 7Jaguars. As a collector, I'm getting exhausted from all the mint's offerings, forcing me the past few years to pick and choose my spots. I'm getting more and more selective, and I find I'm choosing to not purchase items that I regularly collected in the past. My purchasing is slowing to a trickle. Now with gold languishing, I'm contemplating being a better seller than buyer going forward.
For the MS coins they seem to be drying up on market place and when compared to recent similar issuses such as Bald Eagle, Jamestown, Old SF Mint issues they are maintaing a premium over issue price and well over spot.
Some recent Ebay sales of PCGS MS69s have been really surprising at $600 and up.
Mintage? Design? Topic? Core interest group?
Regardless of reason it is nice to see a mint product with an after market premium.
With further dispersion of supply prices should continue to do well.............at least IMO.
<< <i><< I noticed at the mint site the following message for 2012 ASE Proof: "This product is temporarily unavailable for product repricing." The last price was $59.95. Any guess what the price would be next?
<< <i><< I noticed at the mint site the following message for 2012 ASE Proof: "This product is temporarily unavailable for product repricing." The last price was $59.95. Any guess what the price would be next?
The Lucy Hayes uncirculated First Spouse is sold out. Depending on this week's numbers, this could displace the 2008-W unc. $50 plat as the lowest mintage coin of the 21st Century. Sales total as of last week was 2152.
The Lucretia Garfield could potentially wind up with a similar mintage. As of last week, sales were 1945.
The "Making American History Coin & Currency Set" goes on sale tomorrow (8/7). Contains a 2012-S proof Silver Eagle and a $5 bill. If delivered early enough, the coin may be eligible for "First Strike" status. This could potentially be worth a premium if the set that it came from is identified on the label.
<< <i>A few items of interest since the last post:
The Lucy Hayes uncirculated First Spouse is sold out. Depending on this week's numbers, this could displace the 2008-W unc. $50 plat as the lowest mintage coin of the 21st Century. Sales total as of last week was 2152.
The Lucretia Garfield could potentially wind up with a similar mintage. As of last week, sales were 1945.
The "Making American History Coin & Currency Set" goes on sale tomorrow (8/7). Contains a 2012-S proof Silver Eagle and a $5 bill. If delivered early enough, the coin may be eligible for "First Strike" status. This could potentially be worth a premium if the set that it came from is identified on the label.
Lots of exciting stuff going on. >>
I got a pr and unc Lucy Hayes and had them certified early on. Both 69's PCGS has not been kind to me lately.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
What do you all think about the "Making American History..." set? Who's buying? I'm in for one.
Can't believe that they'er selling more '12 S ASE Proofs. I think that we all assumed that both the proof and the rp in the 75th set would be the total mintage for each issue.
If the "Making American History" sets are delivered in time, it might be possible to get a "First Strike" on the 2012-S proof Silver Eagle as well as a set designation on the label. If this combo is permitted, it might wind up with a low population in 70. That's the only way I see for this set to be worthwhile as a speculation.
This currency set has only an intial production run of 50K. Which puts the total mintage of the S Proof at 300K. Below the 1993 and 1994 ASE Proof mintages. Of course, they have the option to mint 50k more. If these sell out fast, then they could mint the other 50K. Only 4 months left in the year though. I am not buying(maybe one as a novelty). All my funds went into the 2 coin anniversary set.
<< <i>This currency set has only an intial production run of 50K. Which puts the total mintage of the S Proof at 300K. Below the 1993 and 1994 ASE Proof mintages. Of course, they have the option to mint 50k more. If these sell out fast, then they could mint the other 50K. Only 4 months left in the year though. I am not buying(maybe one as a novelty). All my funds went into the 2 coin anniversary set. >>
The mint did a good job on the 2 coin anniversary set, nice looking setup.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I really like the ASE, but feel it's getting long in the tooth. I'm ready for a new design, but acknowledge it will be difficult to fill the shoes of the ASE. Oh, solving the milk spot issue would be a nice touch and would add fuel to the silver dollar fire. Maybe a platinum coating...
Lucretia Garfield 1,973 just prior to sellout - I expect next week's numbers will be closer to Lucy Hayes.
Likely we have a new low-mintage king (queen?), displacing the 2008-W burnished $50 platinum eagle.
The proofs may be close to a sellout also. Lucy is currently at 3352 with Lucretia at 2954. Lucy and/or Lucretia may become the low-mintage champ(s) on the proof side also.
This dramatic turn of events may be just what's needed to draw attention to the neglected First Spouse series and generate some interest from the wider numismatic community.
I noticed on Coinupdate.com that weekly sales of Lucy Hayes have been 6 or 8 coins each week. This week they go off sale with a sales total of 2243* but weekly sales +91 coins!! Someone always knows just when to jump in late.
Maybe they were just lucky buying at the right moment.
<< <i>I noticed on Coinupdate.com that weekly sales of Lucy Hayes have been 6 or 8 coins each week. This week they go off sale with a sales total of 2243* but weekly sales +91 coins!! Someone always knows just when to jump in late.
Maybe they were just lucky buying at the right moment. >>
Well, she did go on backorder for a few days. Sometimes that is a give away.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
I would love to see what you guys thinks about this: (both spouse haters and lovers)
Now, the UNC Hayes (~2243) is and most likely the UNC Garfield (~2,000+) will be become the new queens of the series and they are both significantly lower than the third place UNC ~2,900. (Julia Tyler or Eliza Johnson, depends on which number you use)
The current retail of Julia Tyler, lets say roughly, $1,700. And the current retail of Eliza Johnson is still no one cares.
One of the major difference for the UNC Hayes and Garfield is that it seems the major dealers (MCM, Apmex) have also given up stocking them (at least they didn't put it online for sales), leaving less than 10 available UNC Hayes coins available online at a reasonable price. This is why the eBay price of Hayes has spiked after they sold out (extremely low supply and a even a small demand can cause the price to raise a lot).
Of course, the 2012 is a big wildcard. However, I think we are getting very close to the lowest mintage spouse (if not already there). I think either 2011 or 2012 will be the key for this series. I think 2013 spouse will have more interest because we are getting into the 20th century presidents. Also, now, people are just too pessimistic about the series. Some collectors are exhausted from chasing the new key. Most speculators are out in last year. Now it seems more dealers have also given up on this series. I think only the die hard collectors, key collectors, and bullion investors are buying them.
I am not talking about collecting. I am talking about investing in the form of bullion. I personally thinks this series and especially the 2011 and 2012 spouses, in terms of risk to return ratio, is the most favorable. What do you think??
<< <i>The unc Lucy & Lucretia's are available now for $966 at the Mint kiosk at the ANA. >>
Bet they won't last long. Likely they're inventory that was on hand when Lucy went dark. The fact that they're still available means that most attendees are not paying attention to the series.
My question is, is the demand for a coin driven by a low mintage or by the collection of a series that contains a low mintage coin? It just doesn't seem like the spouse series has enough following to drive demand for the coins, even the low mintage coins.
So, you have a couple low mintage coins out of an uncollected series sitting in your SB, will they really appreciate in value? Are there many "low mintage" collectors out there compared to "series" collectors to increase the value of these low mintage coins?
It seems we have seen this in the past and maybe expect for "pattern" coins, the low mintage coins just die. I am sure there may be a collector out there that just has to have a 1909 S VDB cent or a three legged buffalo, etc. but these are highly talked about (for lack of better words – maybe marketed) coins. Will a low mintage spouse coin ever get into this special collectable tier?
[It seems we have seen this in the past and maybe expect for "pattern" coins, the low mintage coins just die. I am sure there may be a collector out there that just has to have a 1909 S VDB cent or a three legged buffalo, etc. but these are highly talked about (for lack of better words � maybe marketed) coins. Will a low mintage spouse coin ever get into this special collectable tier? >>
Hard to say what future generations would think about these. I suspect they will not be as critical about them as many of us today. When that happens the mintage figures and availability become the driver of value to a larger extent like almost every other coin that is collected.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i> It just doesn't seem like the spouse series has enough following to drive demand for the coins, even the low mintage coins. >>
Same with modern gold commemoratives. I believe it will take time for lower mintages in these two series to demand top dollar has been demonstrated with some of the earlier modern commemoratives (Jackie Robinson) vs. recent ones (Medal of Honor). Last year's MOH and US Army are bargains at today's prices.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
The key will be in the 2012 or 2013 series if the US joins the EU in recession. Smoe are predicting gold near $1,900 by years end. So a FS could run $1,200. Another year of "Who-dat-Spouse." And, if the January 1, 2013 Tax Hike occurs, $600 billion according to the GAO, will come from taxpayers. These are smoe factors that may lead to a significant low 1,500-1,750 pieces.
So does an ugly lower mintage spouse become the beneficiary of a higher price? Lucy and Lucretia are not very attractive but lower mintage than Julia. Could it be possible for an uglier coin to be more expensive? Say it ain't so!!!!
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>IMO if you are determined to going to buy US Mint gold and platinum based produts the only way to do it is to be patient and nimble.
Watch and wait for major spikes in spot prices (5%+) and strike before mint reprices product.
Moves of this magnitude are rare and infrequent but they do occur.
You won't be able to eliminate the premium over spot but you can reduce it stack the odds a little more in your favor by being patient and nimble. >>
The thing about "spikes" is that they go down about as fast as they go up-sometimes faster. >>
...........................................................................................................................................................................................................
True but on average it pays to buy when premium over spot is as thin as possible. >>
Everyone has their strategy on things like this and I am not one to say any is better but for me I tend to like a buy on a spike down and hope for a recovery. It does pays to watch the Mint pricing and catch the coin right after the Mint reprices down. I guess overall it depends on how you hold your coins. If you are planning a flash flip then the narrower margin over spot can be beneficial. If you are holding more long term then maybe not so effective.
But if you like 'em, why not enjoy them? Personally, I'm excited about the new silver eagle set, even though I don't expect it'll be worth much over melt. These are beautiful coins, and I also agree with jmski that the Mint should stick with some consistent series with few "specials" mixed in.
You may be right on the 'run of the mill" Spouses but I can't help but think that no matter how dull the design the mintage numbers will power through to hold value in the coin. We shall see. I think the SF silver will hold well over melt in the future but I am not so sure how much over issue price though.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I agree too...
"06/28/2012
2012 American Eagle One Ounce Gold Uncirculated Coin"
Who is buying? (I'm in for two).
>>
I ordered just one (so far!); it arrived last Friday.
Jim
I would not be shocked if they were a fairly small production run too.
Eric
Really? Would that make you a eunuch?
<< <i>Sending in my johnson.....
Really? Would that make you a eunuch?
<< <i>Sending in my johnson.....
Really? Would that make you a eunuch?
<< <i>Sending in my johnson.....
Really? Would that make you a eunuch?
Bravo
Just an observation.
For the MS coins they seem to be drying up on market place and when compared to recent similar issuses such as Bald Eagle, Jamestown, Old SF Mint issues they are maintaing a premium over issue price and well over spot.
Some recent Ebay sales of PCGS MS69s have been really surprising at $600 and up.
Mintage? Design? Topic? Core interest group?
Regardless of reason it is nice to see a mint product with an after market premium.
With further dispersion of supply prices should continue to do well.............at least IMO.
<< <i><< I noticed at the mint site the following message for 2012 ASE Proof: "This product is temporarily unavailable for product repricing." The last price was $59.95. Any guess what the price would be next?
I guess $54.95. >> >>
I called it! Down $5.00.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i><< I noticed at the mint site the following message for 2012 ASE Proof: "This product is temporarily unavailable for product repricing." The last price was $59.95. Any guess what the price would be next?
I guess $54.95. >> >>
I called it! Down $5.00. >>
Any relation to this guy?
<< <i>I called it! Down $5.00. >>
Any relation to this guy?
I wish! Unfortunately, my crystal ball only works occasionally.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
The Lucy Hayes uncirculated First Spouse is sold out. Depending on this week's numbers, this could displace the 2008-W unc. $50 plat as the lowest mintage coin of the 21st Century. Sales total as of last week was 2152.
The Lucretia Garfield could potentially wind up with a similar mintage. As of last week, sales were 1945.
The "Making American History Coin & Currency Set" goes on sale tomorrow (8/7). Contains a 2012-S proof Silver Eagle and a $5 bill. If delivered early enough, the coin may be eligible for "First Strike" status. This could potentially be worth a premium if the set that it came from is identified on the label.
Lots of exciting stuff going on.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>A few items of interest since the last post:
The Lucy Hayes uncirculated First Spouse is sold out. Depending on this week's numbers, this could displace the 2008-W unc. $50 plat as the lowest mintage coin of the 21st Century. Sales total as of last week was 2152.
The Lucretia Garfield could potentially wind up with a similar mintage. As of last week, sales were 1945.
The "Making American History Coin & Currency Set" goes on sale tomorrow (8/7). Contains a 2012-S proof Silver Eagle and a $5 bill. If delivered early enough, the coin may be eligible for "First Strike" status. This could potentially be worth a premium if the set that it came from is identified on the label.
Lots of exciting stuff going on.
I got a pr and unc Lucy Hayes and had them certified early on. Both 69's
PCGS has not been kind to me lately.
Can't believe that they'er selling more '12 S ASE Proofs. I think that we all assumed that both the proof and the rp in the 75th set would be the total mintage for each issue.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Box of 20
<< <i>This currency set has only an intial production run of 50K. Which puts the total mintage of the S Proof at 300K. Below the 1993 and 1994 ASE Proof mintages. Of course, they have the option to mint 50k more. If these sell out fast, then they could mint the other 50K. Only 4 months left in the year though. I am not buying(maybe one as a novelty). All my funds went into the 2 coin anniversary set. >>
The mint did a good job on the 2 coin anniversary set, nice looking setup.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>That 100,000 Anniversary Set mintage looks better all the time. >>
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
$200.00 or so a raw set?
<< <i>The unc. Lucretia Garfield just went on backorder. It appears to be on the same track as the Lucy Hayes. >>
Nice.
Lucretia Garfield 1,973 just prior to sellout - I expect next week's numbers will be closer to Lucy Hayes.
Likely we have a new low-mintage king (queen?), displacing the 2008-W burnished $50 platinum eagle.
The proofs may be close to a sellout also. Lucy is currently at 3352 with Lucretia at 2954. Lucy and/or Lucretia may become the low-mintage champ(s) on the proof side also.
This dramatic turn of events may be just what's needed to draw attention to the neglected First Spouse series and generate some interest from the wider numismatic community.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
This week they go off sale with a sales total of 2243* but weekly sales +91 coins!!
Someone always knows just when to jump in late.
Maybe they were just lucky buying at the right moment.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I noticed on Coinupdate.com that weekly sales of Lucy Hayes have been 6 or 8 coins each week.
This week they go off sale with a sales total of 2243* but weekly sales +91 coins!!
Someone always knows just when to jump in late.
Maybe they were just lucky buying at the right moment.
Well, she did go on backorder for a few days. Sometimes that is a give away.
<< <i>Gold coins at the Mint are being repriced now, $50 higher on the 1 ozers........... >>
$25 higher on the remaining First Spouse 1/2 ouncers.
The "shipping date" for the backordered unc. Lucretia has been bumped from 8/22 to 8/23. Where have we seen this pattern before?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Now, the UNC Hayes (~2243) is and most likely the UNC Garfield (~2,000+) will be become the new queens of the series and they are both significantly lower than the third place UNC ~2,900. (Julia Tyler or Eliza Johnson, depends on which number you use)
The current retail of Julia Tyler, lets say roughly, $1,700. And the current retail of Eliza Johnson is still no one cares.
One of the major difference for the UNC Hayes and Garfield is that it seems the major dealers (MCM, Apmex) have also given up stocking them (at least they didn't put it online for sales), leaving less than 10 available UNC Hayes coins available online at a reasonable price. This is why the eBay price of Hayes has spiked after they sold out (extremely low supply and a even a small demand can cause the price to raise a lot).
Of course, the 2012 is a big wildcard. However, I think we are getting very close to the lowest mintage spouse (if not already there). I think either 2011 or 2012 will be the key for this series. I think 2013 spouse will have more interest because we are getting into the 20th century presidents. Also, now, people are just too pessimistic about the series. Some collectors are exhausted from chasing the new key. Most speculators are out in last year. Now it seems more dealers have also given up on this series. I think only the die hard collectors, key collectors, and bullion investors are buying them.
I am not talking about collecting. I am talking about investing in the form of bullion. I personally thinks this series and especially the 2011 and 2012 spouses, in terms of risk to return ratio, is the most favorable. What do you think??
<< <i>The unc Lucy & Lucretia's are available now for $966 at the Mint kiosk at the ANA. >>
Bet they won't last long. Likely they're inventory that was on hand when Lucy went dark. The fact that they're still available means that most attendees are not paying attention to the series.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Get her or Lucy?
So, you have a couple low mintage coins out of an uncollected series sitting in your SB, will they really appreciate in value? Are there many "low mintage" collectors out there compared to "series" collectors to increase the value of these low mintage coins?
It seems we have seen this in the past and maybe expect for "pattern" coins, the low mintage coins just die. I am sure there may be a collector out there that just has to have a 1909 S VDB cent or a three legged buffalo, etc. but these are highly talked about (for lack of better words – maybe marketed) coins. Will a low mintage spouse coin ever get into this special collectable tier?
Hard to say what future generations would think about these. I suspect they will not be as critical about them as many of us today. When that happens the mintage figures and availability become the driver of value to a larger extent like almost every other coin that is collected.
<< <i>Is it worth getting a Lucretia also at this point.
Get her or Lucy? >>
If affordable, I would get both. I think they will both be winners, but it is unknown which one will be the lower mintage.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i> It just doesn't seem like the spouse series has enough following to drive demand for the coins, even the low mintage coins. >>
Same with modern gold commemoratives. I believe it will take time for lower mintages in these two series to demand top dollar has been demonstrated with some of the earlier modern commemoratives (Jackie Robinson) vs. recent ones (Medal of Honor). Last year's MOH and US Army are bargains at today's prices.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Wondercoin
<< <i>
<< <i>Is it worth getting a Lucretia also at this point.
Get her or Lucy? >>
If affordable, I would get both. I think they will both be winners, but it is unknown which one will be the lower mintage. >>
I'm betting on Lucretia. Sold my one Hayes today. I've been wrong before but maybe this time I'll nail it
Link
Lucy added 17, probably from counter sales and ANA sales.
Lucretia added 525, in my opinion likely *way* overstated because of the length of time coin was in "backorder" status.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Is it worth getting a Lucretia also at this point.
Get her or Lucy? >>
If affordable, I would get both. I think they will both be winners, but it is unknown which one will be the lower mintage. >>
I'm betting on Lucretia. Sold my one Hayes today. I've been wrong before but maybe this time I'll nail it
Oops, Oh well, it happens.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Is it worth getting a Lucretia also at this point.
Get her or Lucy? >>
If affordable, I would get both. I think they will both be winners, but it is unknown which one will be the lower mintage. >>
I'm betting on Lucretia. Sold my one Hayes today. I've been wrong before but maybe this time I'll nail it
Oops, Oh well, it happens. >>
Yup it does
Box of 20