These platinum coins most likely will not see a sudden increase in value in our lifetimes. If the mint decides to stop issuing future coins in platinum, interest will even wane more. 15 years of platinum coin production. These are not rare overall.
Maybe I am mixed up but I thought the 2011 w $50 gold eagle was the new key for that series. As far as the plats go the first spouse mintages have fallen to the plat levels which nobody could have guessed. I think the gold spouse will outperform the plats as a set investment.
In my opinion fractional plats are nicer coins to collect, thay are also more affordable to collect and at these price/bullion ratios of most selling under 1.5 melt are fairly safe to collect. The $25 proof set has only 12 coins to aquire and most of them can be had for under $600 in PR70 grades with the exception of fews. Even the keys like 2004 and 2008 in PR70 still can be had under 1K that is at most 2.5 melt so you can complete the whole set under $10K which will still have roughly 3 oz of Pt bullion in it (at least 50% of value). Compare that to 2011 silver anniversary sets in top grade selling at 10X melt
"Maybe I am mixed up but I thought the 2011 w $50 gold eagle was the new key for that series." Right but only recently and by the way they are not better than 1.3 times melt either for a typical example. The 2008-W $50 gold unc has had over 3 years to find homes. The 2011w less than 3 months. Either way its the same result.
<< <i>"Maybe I am mixed up but I thought the 2011 w $50 gold eagle was the new key for that series." Right but only recently and by the way they are not better than 1.3 times melt either for a typical example. The 2008-W $50 gold unc has had over 3 years to find homes. The 2011w less than 3 months. Either way its the same result. >>
I would suspect that the only thing holding the 2011 W down right now besides the general economy is the threat of a 2012 W. If that goes away then look out. 1.3x will be in the rear view mirror.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
The spouse gold coins only have followers here on the forum, and not many at that............
They are absolutely DEAD in the marketplace. Literally selling at spot -5%.
Bring up the keys and the one, two, or even ten sales on ebay for moon money. Good Luck. Outside of that venue (competing for the few buyers) it's DEAD CITY.
The best thing the USM could do for many of these dead series is discontinue them.
<< <i>The spouse gold coins only have followers here on the forum, and not many at that............
They are absolutely DEAD in the marketplace. Literally selling at spot -5%.
Bring up the keys and the one, two, or even ten sales on ebay for moon money. Good Luck. Outside of that venue (competing for the few buyers) it's DEAD CITY.
The best thing the USM could do for many of these dead series is discontinue them. >>
For the Spouse series, the Mint has no authority to discontinue them without Congressional approval. I think they could invigorate the program with a silver offering (and better designs) but that would also take a law.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>The spouse gold coins only have followers here on the forum, and not many at that............
They are absolutely DEAD in the marketplace. Literally selling at spot -5%.
Bring up the keys and the one, two, or even ten sales on ebay for moon money. Good Luck. Outside of that venue (competing for the few buyers) it's DEAD CITY.
The best thing the USM could do for many of these dead series is discontinue them. >>
Buy em. Stick em back in the corner. Your children will thank you
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<< The spouse gold coins only have followers here on the forum, and not many at that............ They are absolutely DEAD in the marketplace. Literally selling at spot -5%. >>
Maybe for the high-mintage 2007 issues, but I don't see prices that low for any of the later Spouses.
I think he meant the interest level. I love mint products pretty strongly but am one of those that don't give a rip about the "First Hags", and have only the Jefferson; I read everything else but don't even read posts about the latest Julias or whatever. Can't say for sure but I think that mirrors a lot of peoples' feelings about them - they just don't seem to be coins.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
Maybe I am mixed up but I thought the 2011 w $50 gold eagle was the new key for that series. As far as the plats go the first spouse mintages have fallen to the plat levels which nobody could have guessed. I think the gold spouse will outperform the plats as a set investment.
The spouse gold coins only have followers here on the forum, and not many at that............
They are absolutely DEAD in the marketplace. Literally selling at spot -5%.
Bring up the keys and the one, two, or even ten sales on ebay for moon money. Good Luck. Outside of that venue (competing for the few buyers) it's DEAD CITY.
I think that the economy, in addition to the overproliferation of Mint Stuff both contributed to this situation. If the fractional Plats are re-started now, it won't necessarily re-start the series. Discretionary income is lower and I just don't see demand except as a bullion investment. Of course, that was the original intent - which is also a factor in the longterm potential. And it is always a double-edged sword - lack of interest eventually creates a rarity which then stimulates interest.
Interest in any series ebbs and flows. Right now, it's ebbing for most Modern series. If it's bullion-related, it will no doubt come back with a flurry of interest at some point. You can always justify a purchase of bullion for various reasons. Numismatic bullion has that extra twist - the collectability factor.
The Gold Spouses could still go lower in terms of mintages. Right now, the Mint pricing is about $100 in premium over the issues that are already on the market. With metals prices high, there aren't many issues that don't suffer a collapse in the premiums. I think that the newest issues from the Mint will suffer this same phenomenon. It may be for that very reason that the rarities are yet to come. This is Year 5 of the Spouse program, which about what I'd expect in terms of collector apathy in light of the higher costs and pressure on premiums.
The same situation exists with AGEs. Even though the series is well-established, the collector money isn't there. Investment money, yes. Collector money, no. In my opinion, collections will continue to be formed, but not at a significant enough rate to overcome the bullion aspects of the AGEs, particularly in the higher denominations. The 1 oz 2011-W Burnished AGE is the Key, no doubt about it. Collector demand comes from various places and types of set formation, so the real question is - how long will it take for the collector base for 1 ozers to grow into the existing mintage for the 2011-W? Based on what we've seen with the 2008-W, it won't take too long, but it won't be overnight either.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
What I don't get is how many seem to be proud of how much they hate the Spouse coins. Usually, if you don't like something, most people are polite enough to just move on without comment. I keep waiting for that to happen but there are always the holdouts. I am glad at least this board is not full of negative nabobs saying how much they hate this coin or that. Maybe Don Willis should add one more rule. At least if you are going to be negative, try to have some basis that is true, not just distorted half-truths and raw insulting opinion. That would seem to be more in keeping with the spirit and intention of the PCGS forum.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
You may see some interest in the Spouses when Jackie rolls around. I don't collect them, but I like the Spouse Series for a reason - anything that kindles a spark of interest in American History is a good thing, in my opinion.
At some point - from a collector's point of view, a full collection of Gold Spouses will be something to envy. That's simply the way these things tend to work out.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Jackie with the Pill Box hat will be a winner. But that means a higher mintage. A coinundrum, in deed. >>
I also will go for the Jackie coins, MS and proof. Other than Jackie and the libs, I have no other interest in the series. Anything Kennedy related sells and people that do not collect coins will still want the Jackie coin. As my pocketbook permits, I am also buying any of $25 or $50 W platinum series coins when I can get PCGS 69's for not much over melt value. I dont expect to see much return in my lifetime unless Plat takes off but I think my kids will be happy.
I might be interested in the more modern issues of the gold spouses. Jackie, etc. More as a novelty than anything else. These will be thought of as only as bullion with a high premium at least by me. If issue prices stayed in the $400 range like in 07, I would have probably collected the whole series. I wonder if the popularity of the series would have been increased if they were produced in silver or a bimetallic with more silver and less gold.
These will be thought of as only as bullion with a high premium at least by me.
You and others may consider them bullion but I don't think you will be able to buy them at bullion prices in the future, other than the 07's. The only reason you see that today on the 07's is because the price of gold has gone up so much since then. Collectors are buying these at a high premium over spot and unless they are desperate to sell will never sell them at spot in a stable or falling gold market. For me, I would just hold until the low mintages of these coins gets recognized and the negative nabobs move on to browner pastures.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Some of these First Spouse Gold coins that have not sold due to the series many problems will do well. The question is which ones and how long will it take for the coin(s) to mature. A 2008-w or 2006-w $50 mint state platinum eagles are just as rare or rarer than the generic first hag series and better looking than most of them. Guys its not uncommon for it to take 10-40 years or more for a series or type coin to acquire the stature they deserve. I just hope the coins don’t turn out to be a generational play
<< <i>Some of these First Spouse Gold coins that have not sold due to the series many problems will do well. The question is which ones and how long will it take for the coin(s) to mature. A 2008-w or 2006-w $50 mint state platinum eagles are just as rare or rarer than the generic first hag series and better looking than most of them. Guys its not uncommon for it to take 10-40 years or more for a series or type coin to aquire the sture they deserve. I just hope the coins dont turn out to be a generational play. >>
Unfortunately, I think most collector items take at least one generation to find a true perspective marketwise. Anything less in time is often market chatter or hype. These days, in the days of drive-through fast food and internet stock trading, fewer people who enter collecting based on a desired for appreciation have the patience for that and settle for hype, but hype is very elusive.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I think he meant the interest level. I love mint products pretty strongly but am one of those that don't give a rip about the "First Hags", and have only the Jefferson; I read everything else but don't even read posts about the latest Julias or whatever. Can't say for sure but I think that mirrors a lot of peoples' feelings about them - they just don't seem to be coins. >>
I own as many modern silver-gold-platinum based moderns as most but I just don't have any interest in the First Spouse(hags) series.
Too politically correct in origin, too Franklin mint like in production, too much alike in appearance, too many trying to catch the next key, too long a series (endless??), too small a core interest group.
I never got started on these and am glad I never did.
I guess some fool will pay big bucks to have a MS/PR 70 First Strike 40+ coin set .................but not me.
(You know the only thing that might have saved this set was if they had minted 1/5 ounce coins with face value of $4.)
This series will someday have more interest. I think that fairly soon, the Mint will be curtailing its changing reverse programs in favor favor of more stagnant designs. It seems like the market is growing tired of changing reverses. (Or is this just my imagination?).
If we ever return to a day of more stagnant designs, it might reinvigorate interest in the changing reverse series' like the state and NP quarters, pres dollars, and spouses. I don't think this will happen anytime soon, but eventually.
Personally, I have no interest. Designs and subject matter just don't do it for me.
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<< <i>I just don't have any interest in the First Spouse(hags) series.
... too many trying to catch the next key,
... too small a core interest group.
Seems contradictory to me.
Also, what is the problem with wanting a key date coin anyway? Doesn't that happen in all series? >>
...................................................................................................................................................................... Of the 3,000 or so sales an unusually large % compared to other series seems to be going to those hoping to catch the bottom or a short struck run.
Core interest group?? Army or Marine Corp vets..............millions Boy scouts..........millions. American bison or images of native americans.............millions. Those with interest in Andrew Johnston's wife and $1,000 to show it??...........less than 3,000
<< <i>Am I the only one having this problem? I can't read the last post if it is on a new page in a very long thread (such as this one). >>
This happens sometimes when there is only one post on the last page. Once an additional post is made, the last page becomes visible. Manually adding 1 to the page number at the end of the web address (example, changing 512 to 513) will also make a single-post last page visible.
<< Those with interest in Andrew Johnston's wife and $1,000 to show it??...........less than 3,000 >>
Around 7,000 if you include proofs.
If the final mintage nets out around 3k for the uncs. and 4k for the proofs, I think the proofs will be the better buy long term.
<< <i>I just don't have any interest in the First Spouse(hags) series.
... too many trying to catch the next key,
... too small a core interest group.
Seems contradictory to me.
Also, what is the problem with wanting a key date coin anyway? Doesn't that happen in all series? >>
...................................................................................................................................................................... Of the 3,000 or so sales an unusually large % compared to other series seems to be going to those hoping to catch the bottom or a short struck run.
Core interest group?? Army or Marine Corp vets..............millions Boy scouts..........millions. American bison or images of native americans.............millions. Those with interest in Andrew Johnston's wife and $1,000 to show it??...........less than 3,000 >>
No offense intended but judging by her portrait, only Andrew Johnson was interested in his wife.
To you point though, original core interest does not necessarily point to any appreciation in value over time if that is your goal. Mintage almost always trumps original core interest because low mintage creates its own interest over time. Otherwise, I don't know why anyone would even care about core interest.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
One thing about the spouse coins is it appears the Liberty coins will end up among the highest mintage coins except for the VB unc.
As far as an investment goes I am not sure the appearance of the coins should really matter much. This is like the debate about investing in tobacco stocks, would you invest in something that kills people? Yes the spouse coins won't do that but from many responses about them there is that hatred for them. Meanwhile a lot of people became rich on tobacco stocks because they didn't care.
7/8 may be right these are dead money right now but that may not be for long. Meanwhile what will be the catalyst for the plat coins? If the gold spouse coins are dead money I doubt the plats are any better. If I had to pick one or the other it would be the lower mintage gold. There is the magic about gold that makes it special, and a set of gold moderns at under 4000 mintage will eventually be rewarded.
PS Had the spouse coins had very beautiful designs then the mintages would have ended up much higher, so we can't have it both ways.
I just don't get it, are people really of the opinion that the mint can strike ANYTHING that is a coin, and as long as it is low mintage, is a winner? I like gold too, but I just don't agree.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>I just don't get it, are people really of the opinion that the mint can strike ANYTHING that is a coin, and as long as it is low mintage, is a winner? I like gold too, but I just don't agree. >>
Why do people pay a premium for clips, strike through, broadstrike, lamination flaws, double die? Is it because they are items of beauty? Can't convince me of that. One other thing, look at a red book and compare their values with the mintages and more often than not you will see a pretty strong inverse correlation between mintage and pricing, especially on moderns. For me, the challenge is to find a coin has an attractive design and low mintage (that I can afford). Now that is a tough assignment because great designs are usually big sellers. This may be where plats have an edge although there seems to be resistance to the metal for many collectors.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Core interest group?? Army or Marine Corp vets..............millions Boy scouts..........millions. American bison or images of native americans.............millions. Those with interest in Andrew Johnston's wife and $1,000 to show it??...........less than 3,000 >>
No offense intended but judging by her portrait, only Andrew Johnson was interested in his wife.
To you point though, original core interest does not necessarily point to any appreciation in value over time if that is your goal. Mintage almost always trumps original core interest because low mintage creates its own interest over time. Otherwise, I don't know why anyone would even care about core interest. >>
The most obvious and glaring example of value of core interest group is the Liberty sub set.
Here the core interest group is those with an interest in numismatics. >>
Demand is important of course but look at the Liberty set. They all have classic obverse designs that could be attractively desplayed on a pendant and have a special interest group that is greater than the full series. Yet try and get a Van Buren or a Jackson for the same cost as a Jefferson. Can't do it. I am not saying that mintage is the whole story but my point is that it is a dominant factor and to say that unattractive designs alone will doom a coin to "melt" value in the future is not a fair assessment. JMHO and we shall see.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Does anyone have the Jefferson Liberty brass medal for sale? I bought the others, but missed this one. (Apologies for not asking on the BST, but there are not many others interested in collecting the spouses over there, and I thought I give it a try here while there are so many reading this thread.)
<< <i>Wouldn't it be wild if the First Spouse series mintage falls into the triple digits. >>
That would be the "event" that would get some attention and give the series "longer term" collectibility. Say at least 5 to 10 years out.
I just don't see a lot of current interest. The Grant proof piddled along for over 2 weeks on backorder. Now a few sellers have bumped up prices and a very few buyers will or may pay, but the lack of interest on backorder is telling of the collector apathy for these pieces.
<< <i>Wouldn't it be wild if the First Spouse series mintage falls into the triple digits. >>
That would be the "event" that would get some attention and give the series "longer term" collectibility. Say at least 5 to 10 years out.
I just don't see a lot of current interest. The Grant proof piddled along for over 2 weeks on backorder. Now a few sellers have bumped up prices and a very few buyers will or may pay, but the lack of interest on backorder is telling of the collector apathy for these pieces. >>
Part of the reason for the slowness in sales at the end of the Grant sales is because there are others coming up behind her that might be even lower. You also have the threat of falling gold prices and no one wants to get cut by a falling gold knife. It is like musical chairs. When the music stops, then you will see people scrambling. As for apathy, can you tell me where the excitement is right now? ATB pucks-dead, Buffalos-dead, Eagles-dead, Plats-dead. Even the 25th anniversary set seems to be stagnant for the most part. At least it seems that way to me.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>ATB pucks-dead, Buffalos-dead, Eagles-dead, Plats-dead. Even the 25th anniversary set seems to be stagnant for the most part. >>
Agreed - but these spouses are REALLY DEAD, they are probably the worst on your list, neck and neck with the ATB Pucks.
Spot -5%, the common offer for gold spouses at many shows........and people ARE selling them. I've seen more common PCGS MS/PR70 FS coins going for SPOT.
<< <i>ATB pucks-dead, Buffalos-dead, Eagles-dead, Plats-dead. Even the 25th anniversary set seems to be stagnant for the most part. >>
Agreed - but these spouses are REALLY DEAD, they are probably the worst on your list, neck and neck with the ATB Pucks.
Spot -5%, the common offer for gold spouses at many shows........and people ARE selling them. I've seen more common PCGS MS/PR70 FS coins going for SPOT. >>
Too bad their husbands aren't alive today to buy them!
<< <i>ATB pucks-dead, Buffalos-dead, Eagles-dead, Plats-dead. Even the 25th anniversary set seems to be stagnant for the most part. >>
Stagnation is the word. Still, I expect the 25ths to swing up in the next year. Lots of flippers on these, and it seems to be taking a while for the coins to fall into strong, longterm hands.
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<< <i>7/8s post did not show up until I posted. Something is not right in how the system scrolls sometimes. Other have mentioned this before. ????
Eric >>
I just asked the same question in last page. Overdate showed us the trick how to read the hidden post and it works!
"This happens sometimes when there is only one post on the last page. Once an additional post is made, the last page becomes visible. Manually adding 1 to the page number at the end of the web address (example, changing 512 to 513) will also make a single-post last page visible."
<< <i>ATB pucks-dead, Buffalos-dead, Eagles-dead, Plats-dead. Even the 25th anniversary set seems to be stagnant for the most part. >>
Agreed - but these spouses are REALLY DEAD, they are probably the worst on your list, neck and neck with the ATB Pucks.
Spot -5%, the common offer for gold spouses at many shows........and people ARE selling them. I've seen more common PCGS MS/PR70 FS coins going for SPOT. >>
7/8, are you referring to the 2007 spouses only? If so, I don't understand why you say spouses are really dead except the fact that they really are already dead. Isn't it true that for most common date, you don't get much except for their bullion content?
I tried to buy some of the more common 2008 and 2009 spouses, but I couldn't find any bargain (like below spot).
If 6 years ago they had said the mint will produce a series of gold 1/2 ounce coins with mostly sub 4000 mintages everybody here would have jumped all over it. Yet here we are and people avoid them now when available.
I don't avoid them. In fact, I "jump through hoops" to keep buying them for myself. It's hard to time things perfectly. Let's see who is avoiding them when the Jackie O coin comes out a few years from now.
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< ATB pucks-dead, Buffalos-dead, Eagles-dead, Plats-dead. Even the 25th anniversary set seems to be stagnant for the most part. At least it seems that way to me. >>
It's income tax time. Also gold and silver are stagnating at the moment.
I expect the excitement level to pick up again later this year.
The reason the 25th Anniversary sets are not taking off is maybe the mint lost a some of their collector base because of the way the 25th Anniversary sold out in a few hours. Guess we will see how many of the 2012 Silver Proofs get sold. There were a lot of angry customers.
As for the gold spouses you are looking at over a $10K premium alone to own a complete set of Gold spouses in just proofs if bought directly from the mint. One of the reasons you have 4K mintages. Ony a specialized collector base can a afford these like the platinum coins.
The reason the 25th Anniversary sets are not taking off is maybe the mint lost a some of their collector base because of the way the 25th Anniversary sold out in a few hours.
That could be part of it. The biggest complaints with some Moderns are the inequity of distribution and unnecessary premiums on the front end.
Diehl lost at least one Proof Silver Eagle collector permanently in 1995 with his "reward" of a 95-W Proof Silver Eagle in the Gold Eagle Anniversary Set. That was the tipping point for me - when I became a Modern speculator instead of a collector.
In my opinion, the Mint would promote collecting alot more simply by being consistant.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Comments
Box of 20
<< <i>"Maybe I am mixed up but I thought the 2011 w $50 gold eagle was the new key for that series." Right but only recently and by the way they are not better than 1.3 times melt either for a typical example. The 2008-W $50 gold unc has had over 3 years to find homes. The 2011w less than 3 months. Either way its the same result. >>
I would suspect that the only thing holding the 2011 W down right now besides the general economy is the threat of a 2012 W. If that goes away then look out. 1.3x will be in the rear view mirror.
They are absolutely DEAD in the marketplace. Literally selling at spot -5%.
Bring up the keys and the one, two, or even ten sales on ebay for moon money. Good Luck. Outside of that venue (competing for the few buyers) it's DEAD CITY.
The best thing the USM could do for many of these dead series is discontinue them.
<< <i>The spouse gold coins only have followers here on the forum, and not many at that............
They are absolutely DEAD in the marketplace. Literally selling at spot -5%.
Bring up the keys and the one, two, or even ten sales on ebay for moon money. Good Luck. Outside of that venue (competing for the few buyers) it's DEAD CITY.
The best thing the USM could do for many of these dead series is discontinue them. >>
For the Spouse series, the Mint has no authority to discontinue them without Congressional approval. I think they could invigorate the program with a silver offering (and better designs) but that would also take a law.
<< <i>The spouse gold coins only have followers here on the forum, and not many at that............
They are absolutely DEAD in the marketplace. Literally selling at spot -5%.
Bring up the keys and the one, two, or even ten sales on ebay for moon money. Good Luck. Outside of that venue (competing for the few buyers) it's DEAD CITY.
The best thing the USM could do for many of these dead series is discontinue them. >>
Buy em. Stick em back in the corner. Your children will thank you
Maybe for the high-mintage 2007 issues, but I don't see prices that low for any of the later Spouses.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Well, just Love coins, period.
The spouse gold coins only have followers here on the forum, and not many at that............
They are absolutely DEAD in the marketplace. Literally selling at spot -5%.
Bring up the keys and the one, two, or even ten sales on ebay for moon money. Good Luck. Outside of that venue (competing for the few buyers) it's DEAD CITY.
I think that the economy, in addition to the overproliferation of Mint Stuff both contributed to this situation. If the fractional Plats are re-started now, it won't necessarily re-start the series. Discretionary income is lower and I just don't see demand except as a bullion investment. Of course, that was the original intent - which is also a factor in the longterm potential. And it is always a double-edged sword - lack of interest eventually creates a rarity which then stimulates interest.
Interest in any series ebbs and flows. Right now, it's ebbing for most Modern series. If it's bullion-related, it will no doubt come back with a flurry of interest at some point. You can always justify a purchase of bullion for various reasons. Numismatic bullion has that extra twist - the collectability factor.
The Gold Spouses could still go lower in terms of mintages. Right now, the Mint pricing is about $100 in premium over the issues that are already on the market. With metals prices high, there aren't many issues that don't suffer a collapse in the premiums. I think that the newest issues from the Mint will suffer this same phenomenon. It may be for that very reason that the rarities are yet to come. This is Year 5 of the Spouse program, which about what I'd expect in terms of collector apathy in light of the higher costs and pressure on premiums.
The same situation exists with AGEs. Even though the series is well-established, the collector money isn't there. Investment money, yes. Collector money, no. In my opinion, collections will continue to be formed, but not at a significant enough rate to overcome the bullion aspects of the AGEs, particularly in the higher denominations. The 1 oz 2011-W Burnished AGE is the Key, no doubt about it. Collector demand comes from various places and types of set formation, so the real question is - how long will it take for the collector base for 1 ozers to grow into the existing mintage for the 2011-W? Based on what we've seen with the 2008-W, it won't take too long, but it won't be overnight either.
I knew it would happen.
At some point - from a collector's point of view, a full collection of Gold Spouses will be something to envy. That's simply the way these things tend to work out.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Jackie with the Pill Box hat will be a winner. But that means a higher mintage. A coinundrum, in deed. >>
I also will go for the Jackie coins, MS and proof. Other than Jackie and the libs, I have no other interest in the series. Anything Kennedy related sells and people that do not collect coins will still want the Jackie coin. As my pocketbook permits, I am also buying any of $25 or $50 W platinum series coins when I can get PCGS 69's for not much over melt value. I dont expect to see much return in my lifetime unless Plat takes off but I think my kids will be happy.
Box of 20
You and others may consider them bullion but I don't think you will be able to buy them at bullion prices in the future, other than the 07's. The only reason you see that today on the 07's is because the price of gold has gone up so much since then. Collectors are buying these at a high premium over spot and unless they are desperate to sell will never sell them at spot in a stable or falling gold market. For me, I would just hold until the low mintages of these coins gets recognized and the negative nabobs move on to browner pastures.
<< <i>Some of these First Spouse Gold coins that have not sold due to the series many problems will do well. The question is which ones and how long will it take for the coin(s) to mature. A 2008-w or 2006-w $50 mint state platinum eagles are just as rare or rarer than the generic first hag series and better looking than most of them. Guys its not uncommon for it to take 10-40 years or more for a series or type coin to aquire the sture they deserve. I just hope the coins dont turn out to be a generational play. >>
Unfortunately, I think most collector items take at least one generation to find a true perspective marketwise. Anything less in time is often market chatter or hype. These days, in the days of drive-through fast food and internet stock trading, fewer people who enter collecting based on a desired for appreciation have the patience for that and settle for hype, but hype is very elusive.
<< <i>I think he meant the interest level. I love mint products pretty strongly but am one of those that don't give a rip about the "First Hags", and have only the Jefferson; I read everything else but don't even read posts about the latest Julias or whatever. Can't say for sure but I think that mirrors a lot of peoples' feelings about them - they just don't seem to be coins. >>
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I agree completely.
I own as many modern silver-gold-platinum based moderns as most but I just don't have any interest in the First Spouse(hags) series.
Too politically correct in origin, too Franklin mint like in production, too much alike in appearance, too many trying to catch the next key, too long a series (endless??), too small a core interest group.
I never got started on these and am glad I never did.
I guess some fool will pay big bucks to have a MS/PR 70 First Strike 40+ coin set .................but not me.
(You know the only thing that might have saved this set was if they had minted 1/5 ounce coins with face value of $4.)
I can't read the last post if it is on a new page in a very long thread (such as this one).
... too many trying to catch the next key,
... too small a core interest group.
Seems contradictory to me.
Also, what is the problem with wanting a key date coin anyway? Doesn't that happen in all series?
If we ever return to a day of more stagnant designs, it might reinvigorate interest in the changing reverse series' like the state and NP quarters, pres dollars, and spouses. I don't think this will happen anytime soon, but eventually.
Personally, I have no interest. Designs and subject matter just don't do it for me.
Possible but by then how many 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th keys will you have purchased??
<< <i>I just don't have any interest in the First Spouse(hags) series.
... too many trying to catch the next key,
... too small a core interest group.
Seems contradictory to me.
Also, what is the problem with wanting a key date coin anyway? Doesn't that happen in all series? >>
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Of the 3,000 or so sales an unusually large % compared to other series seems to be going to those hoping to catch the bottom or a short struck run.
Core interest group??
Army or Marine Corp vets..............millions
Boy scouts..........millions.
American bison or images of native americans.............millions.
Those with interest in Andrew Johnston's wife and $1,000 to show it??...........less than 3,000
<< <i>Triple digits? >>
<< <i>Possible but by then how many 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th keys will you have purchased?? >>
None if you are selective, smart enough and your timing is right.
<< <i>Am I the only one having this problem?
I can't read the last post if it is on a new page in a very long thread (such as this one). >>
This happens sometimes when there is only one post on the last page. Once an additional post is made, the last page becomes visible. Manually adding 1 to the page number at the end of the web address (example, changing 512 to 513) will also make a single-post last page visible.
<< Those with interest in Andrew Johnston's wife and $1,000 to show it??...........less than 3,000 >>
Around 7,000 if you include proofs.
If the final mintage nets out around 3k for the uncs. and 4k for the proofs, I think the proofs will be the better buy long term.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>I just don't have any interest in the First Spouse(hags) series.
... too many trying to catch the next key,
... too small a core interest group.
Seems contradictory to me.
Also, what is the problem with wanting a key date coin anyway? Doesn't that happen in all series? >>
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Of the 3,000 or so sales an unusually large % compared to other series seems to be going to those hoping to catch the bottom or a short struck run.
Core interest group??
Army or Marine Corp vets..............millions
Boy scouts..........millions.
American bison or images of native americans.............millions.
Those with interest in Andrew Johnston's wife and $1,000 to show it??...........less than 3,000 >>
No offense intended but judging by her portrait, only Andrew Johnson was interested in his wife.
To you point though, original core interest does not necessarily point to any appreciation in value over time if that is your goal. Mintage almost always trumps original core interest because low mintage creates its own interest over time. Otherwise, I don't know why anyone would even care about core interest.
As far as an investment goes I am not sure the appearance of the coins should really matter much. This is like the debate about investing in tobacco stocks, would you invest in something that kills people? Yes the spouse coins won't do that but from many responses about them there is that hatred for them. Meanwhile a lot of people became rich on tobacco stocks because they didn't care.
7/8 may be right these are dead money right now but that may not be for long. Meanwhile what will be the catalyst for the plat coins? If the gold spouse coins are dead money I doubt the plats are any better. If I had to pick one or the other it would be the lower mintage gold. There is the magic about gold that makes it special, and a set of gold moderns at under 4000 mintage will eventually be rewarded.
PS Had the spouse coins had very beautiful designs then the mintages would have ended up much higher, so we can't have it both ways.
I like gold too, but I just don't agree.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>I just don't get it, are people really of the opinion that the mint can strike ANYTHING that is a coin, and as long as it is low mintage, is a winner?
I like gold too, but I just don't agree. >>
Why do people pay a premium for clips, strike through, broadstrike, lamination flaws, double die? Is it because they are items of beauty? Can't convince me of that. One other thing, look at a red book and compare their values with the mintages and more often than not you will see a pretty strong inverse correlation between mintage and pricing, especially on moderns. For me, the challenge is to find a coin has an attractive design and low mintage (that I can afford). Now that is a tough assignment because great designs are usually big sellers. This may be where plats have an edge although there seems to be resistance to the metal for many collectors.
Army or Marine Corp vets..............millions
Boy scouts..........millions.
American bison or images of native americans.............millions.
Those with interest in Andrew Johnston's wife and $1,000 to show it??...........less than 3,000 >>
No offense intended but judging by her portrait, only Andrew Johnson was interested in his wife.
To you point though, original core interest does not necessarily point to any appreciation in value over time if that is your goal. Mintage almost always trumps original core interest because low mintage creates its own interest over time. Otherwise, I don't know why anyone would even care about core interest. >>
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Mintage does not trump interest or demand.
It never has and never will.
Demand is key.
As far as having a large core interest group it helps in initial and subsequent distribution of coins, helping to reduce overhang.
Look no further than the Buffalo commemorative dollar.
Scouts get Scouting silver dollars as gifts, ditto Army and Marine vets, etc.
Anyone try giving hags out as gifts??
You see 1/2 oz Gold American eagles used as pendents but I doubt you will ever see Mrs. Johnston or Grant hanging around someones neck.
The most obvious and glaring example of value of core interest group is the Liberty sub set.
Here the core interest group is those with an interest in numismatics.
Here the core interest group is those with an interest in numismatics. >>
Demand is important of course but look at the Liberty set. They all have classic obverse designs that could be attractively desplayed on a pendant and have a special interest group that is greater than the full series. Yet try and get a Van Buren or a Jackson for the same cost as a Jefferson. Can't do it. I am not saying that mintage is the whole story but my point is that it is a dominant factor and to say that unattractive designs alone will doom a coin to "melt" value in the future is not a fair assessment. JMHO and we shall see.
<< <i>Wouldn't it be wild if the First Spouse series mintage falls into the triple digits. >>
That would be the "event" that would get some attention and give the series "longer term" collectibility. Say at least 5 to 10 years out.
I just don't see a lot of current interest. The Grant proof piddled along for over 2 weeks on backorder. Now a few sellers have bumped up prices and a very few buyers will or may pay, but the lack of interest on backorder is telling of the collector apathy for these pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wouldn't it be wild if the First Spouse series mintage falls into the triple digits. >>
That would be the "event" that would get some attention and give the series "longer term" collectibility. Say at least 5 to 10 years out.
I just don't see a lot of current interest. The Grant proof piddled along for over 2 weeks on backorder. Now a few sellers have bumped up prices and a very few buyers will or may pay, but the lack of interest on backorder is telling of the collector apathy for these pieces. >>
Part of the reason for the slowness in sales at the end of the Grant sales is because there are others coming up behind her that might be even lower. You also have the threat of falling gold prices and no one wants to get cut by a falling gold knife. It is like musical chairs. When the music stops, then you will see people scrambling. As for apathy, can you tell me where the excitement is right now? ATB pucks-dead, Buffalos-dead, Eagles-dead, Plats-dead. Even the 25th anniversary set seems to be stagnant for the most part. At least it seems that way to me.
<< <i>ATB pucks-dead, Buffalos-dead, Eagles-dead, Plats-dead. Even the 25th anniversary set seems to be stagnant for the most part. >>
Agreed - but these spouses are REALLY DEAD, they are probably the worst on your list, neck and neck with the ATB Pucks.
Spot -5%, the common offer for gold spouses at many shows........and people ARE selling them. I've seen more common PCGS MS/PR70 FS coins going for SPOT.
Eric
<< <i>
<< <i>ATB pucks-dead, Buffalos-dead, Eagles-dead, Plats-dead. Even the 25th anniversary set seems to be stagnant for the most part. >>
Agreed - but these spouses are REALLY DEAD, they are probably the worst on your list, neck and neck with the ATB Pucks.
Spot -5%, the common offer for gold spouses at many shows........and people ARE selling them. I've seen more common PCGS MS/PR70 FS coins going for SPOT. >>
Too bad their husbands aren't alive today to buy them!
<< <i>ATB pucks-dead, Buffalos-dead, Eagles-dead, Plats-dead. Even the 25th anniversary set seems to be stagnant for the most part. >>
Stagnation is the word. Still, I expect the 25ths to swing up in the next year. Lots of flippers on these, and it seems to be taking a while for the coins to fall into strong, longterm hands.
<< <i>7/8s post did not show up until I posted. Something is not right in how the system scrolls sometimes. Other have mentioned this before. ????
Eric >>
I just asked the same question in last page. Overdate showed us the trick how to read the hidden post and it works!
"This happens sometimes when there is only one post on the last page. Once an additional post is made, the last page becomes visible. Manually adding 1 to the page number at the end of the web address (example, changing 512 to 513) will also make a single-post last page visible."
<< <i>
<< <i>ATB pucks-dead, Buffalos-dead, Eagles-dead, Plats-dead. Even the 25th anniversary set seems to be stagnant for the most part. >>
Agreed - but these spouses are REALLY DEAD, they are probably the worst on your list, neck and neck with the ATB Pucks.
Spot -5%, the common offer for gold spouses at many shows........and people ARE selling them. I've seen more common PCGS MS/PR70 FS coins going for SPOT. >>
7/8, are you referring to the 2007 spouses only? If so, I don't understand why you say spouses are really dead except the fact that they really are already dead.
Isn't it true that for most common date, you don't get much except for their bullion content?
I tried to buy some of the more common 2008 and 2009 spouses, but I couldn't find any bargain (like below spot).
As always, just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
It's income tax time. Also gold and silver are stagnating at the moment.
I expect the excitement level to pick up again later this year.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
As for the gold spouses you are looking at over a $10K premium alone to own a complete set of Gold spouses in just proofs if bought directly from the mint.
One of the reasons you have 4K mintages. Ony a specialized collector base can a afford these like the platinum coins.
Box of 20
That could be part of it. The biggest complaints with some Moderns are the inequity of distribution and unnecessary premiums on the front end.
Diehl lost at least one Proof Silver Eagle collector permanently in 1995 with his "reward" of a 95-W Proof Silver Eagle in the Gold Eagle Anniversary Set. That was the tipping point for me - when I became a Modern speculator instead of a collector.
In my opinion, the Mint would promote collecting alot more simply by being consistant.
I knew it would happen.