2009 was a very good year for many of the 2008 dated coins from the mint. With little on the horizon I guess nothing on the horizon that seems to exciting I suppose 2008 coins will still spark much interest. When we sit here a year from now which of these 2008 dated coins will have appreciated the most in 2010 if any. Thanks
<< <i>2009 was a very good year for many of the 2008 dated coins from the mint. With little on the horizon I guess nothing on the horizon that seems to exciting I suppose 2008 coins will still spark much interest. When we sit here a year from now which of these 2008 dated coins will have appreciated the most in 2010 if any. Thanks >>
My guess is the Jackson's Liberty and Van Buren's Liberty $10 (non)Spouse gold coins. Five reasons:
1) The four-coin set will be complete this year. 2) Relatively affordable subset within the open-ended First Spouse series. 3) Attractive classic designs on obverse. 4) Both coins (in both proof and uncirculated) have very low mintages, especially compared to other modern gold commems. 5) Reasonable current premiums above bullion value, giving more room to appreciate on a percentage basis.
<< <i>2009 was a very good year for many of the 2008 dated coins from the mint. With little on the horizon I guess nothing on the horizon that seems to exciting I suppose 2008 coins will still spark much interest. When we sit here a year from now which of these 2008 dated coins will have appreciated the most in 2010 if any. Thanks >>
My guess is the Jackson's Liberty and Van Buren's Liberty $10 (non)Spouse gold coins. Five reasons:
1) The four-coin set will be complete this year. 2) Relatively affordable subset within the open-ended First Spouse series. 3) Attractive classic designs on obverse. 4) Both coins (in both proof and uncirculated) have very low mintages, especially compared to other modern gold commems. 5) Reasonable current premiums above bullion value, giving more room to appreciate on a percentage basis. >>
Boy, I don't see these spouses going anywhere anytime soon. It would be interesting if they do. I think buff fractionals will continue to stay in the spotlight. Perhaps the fractional proof plats and unc-w gold eagles will pick up steam.
I've been following the Jackson and Van Buren Liberties on ebay and they have been trending upwards with the Jacksons getting higher bids(makes sense as they sold out early). Jacksons in OGP have been going for around $850 .Unc. jacksons rarely show up in TPG holders and NGC pf70's have been selling for $1000+.The Van Buren's have been selling for $50 -100 less in OGP with a few PCGS/NGC 69's going for the same prices-I haven't seen any VB 70's at auction for a while-the VB PCGS FS 70 buy it nows for $1100+ are slow movers.So far the PCGS coins have been going for small premiums over their NGC counterparts and with time I bet that premium will widen quite a bit(as it has with the 08 Buffalos.)So the better deals maybe PCGS coins and VB's.It seems that proof coins are getting modest premiums compared to unc coins(like the Buffalos).Since the unc are much lower mintage coins they may also have more upside.
U.S. investors may soon have access to a fund that physically buys and stores platinum, eliminating the impact that the nuances of futures markets can have. ETF Securities (ETFS) has filed for approval on physically-backed platinum and palladium ETFs, and the proposed funds recently took a major step towards launch. ETFS already offers similar products in Europe that have become extremely popular among investors there.
NEW YORK, Jan 4 (Reuters) - ETF Securities said that a financial firm has bought 100,000 shares of its proposed first-ever U.S. platinum exchange-traded fund (ETF) and delivery is scheduled by the end of the week.
The initial purchaser was Susquehanna Capital Group, which is also the lead market maker, ETF Securities USA said in a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on Dec. 31."
Actually, this is good news for the bullion value of platinum coins, but not necessarily good news regarding the collector premium for the scarce dates.
If platinum goes up to, say, $4k per ounce, it may discourage potential new plat collectors because of the high entry cost and price risk. It may also encourage further melting and abandonment of the series by current owners.
Under such a scenario, the 1997 bullion plats could actually be better percentage gainers going forward than the 2008-W proofs!
If platinum gets back to $2000 or higher it will again shake up the market but IMO it will be in a positive way.
One knock against moderns is the lack of attrition and high surviving populations.
It may take some years but in the end a lower supply will translate into higher prices.
Like many on this particular thread I have duplicates of various coins and if a price spike occurs it will give me an opportunity to sell my lower graded coins and the profit will only tighten my grip on those that remain.
Here is a question to consider................if there is another BIG MELT we could expect the lower graded coins to be scraped in far higher percentages than PR/MS 70s.
How would pricing be effected if a 3,000 original mintage coin split evenly between 69s and 70s lost 1000 coins to became a 2000 surviving coin with 500 PR/MS69s and 1500 PR/MS70s ??
7/8 it appears those are not the sales numbers as were reported by NN, it is the audited numbers. When I called the mint office to get the audited numbers she referred me to that page.
>> How would pricing be effected if a 3,000 original mintage coin split evenly between 69s and 70s lost 1000 coins to became a 2000 surviving coin with 500 PR/MS69s and 1500 PR/MS70s ?? <<
Well obviously, the MS69s would be worth more because there are fewer of them!
Actually, this is good news for the bullion value of platinum coins, but not necessarily good news regarding the collector premium for the scarce dates.
If platinum goes up to, say, $4k per ounce, it may discourage potential new plat collectors because of the high entry cost and price risk. It may also encourage further melting and abandonment of the series by current owners.
Under such a scenario, the 1997 bullion plats could actually be better percentage gainers going forward than the 2008-W proofs! >>
I agree that is a possibility but at $4k an ounce it is tough to complain. I notice the theft of catalytic converters has started again, they just passed a new law in California to try and slow it down.
From what I can gather, that US ETF could add a few hundred thousand ounces more demand per year to platinum, which is probably enough demand to put this year into deficit again. Here is a link for supply demand for platinum.
they are referred to as "sales" on the page, not as audited mintages. there is a difference, even you would agree.
i would love to believe everything I hear from the USM, but unfortunately, I don't and have good reason not to.
the first thing I'd olove for them to explain is why FOIA request numbers do not even come close to final "struck" coins (with a reasonable amount of damaged coins to get us to "mintages")
a little interesting how they cant count too well, heh?
7/8 I agree with you, however the numbers posted for the platinum, age, and unc gold buffalo are t-h-e final audited numbers they gave us already, not sales numbers so this is all we have to go on yet again. At this point I think these will probably be the final-final-final numbers barring a new coin counter.
The 2008 plat 1/2 UNC mintage at a little over 2200 is incredibly low, I am not sure if it is true but if it is that will be an amazing coin. I haven't sold any gold buffalo and am not selling any platinum either. The new plat ETF will replace what the mint stopped making and then some. The car industry in China is tiny and growing, things look good for platinum.
PS I wish you also had asked the mint how many coins were melted, or returned, that is the key to the puzzle. Back when we had the 30 day window for returns remember the 4 coin plat unc set went back on sale for a couple days at a much lower price and was within the 30 day return window. If the mint numbers are accurate then many must have ordered new sets at the lower price and returned the higher priced sets and those were destroyed. If we knew how many coin were melted, returned or destroyed then maybe it all makes sense.
<< <i> The new plat ETF will replace what the mint stopped making and then some. The car industry in China is tiny and growing, things look good for platinum. ...............................................................................................................................
China's car market is actually now larger than the USA Add in India's auto sales and there is a growing industrial market for platinum. q]
<< <i> The new plat ETF will replace what the mint stopped making and then some. The car industry in China is tiny and growing, things look good for platinum. ...............................................................................................................................
China's car market is actually now larger than the USA Add in India's auto sales and there is a growing industrial market for platinum. >>
Yes that's true, I meant tiny in a relative way compared to the number of people using cars. Here is a long list of countries with the number of cars per 1000 people. China is way down the list at 105.
On another topic, why are 2008 unc-w $25 gold eagle prices so strong? Like the $25 gold unc-w buffs, these are fairly high mintages. Are there really enough collectors for these or are speculators just jumping in to everything 2008?
Are many of you collecting the $50 Gold Buff. business strike coins? I've noticed that they all seem to be about the same price except for a 2008 that I saw sold for $2400 or so. I assumed that this was because the buyer confused the non-W coin with a 2008 W MS.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this. I never assumed that these business strike, non-W coins had much of a premium or collector value.
Are many of you collecting the $50 Gold Buff. business strike coins? I've noticed that they all seem to be about the same price except for a 2008 that I saw sold for $2400 or so. I assumed that this was because the buyer confused the non-W coin with a 2008 W MS.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this. I never assumed that these business strike, non-W coins had much of a premium or collector value.
Thanks, Ron >>
I think the $50 2008w $25 2008w $10 2008w $5 2008w $1 2001d
Buffalo 5 coin type set will be a killer if they only make $50 bullion coins and proofs going forward. Hoping to put a picture of such in a 5 coin multi holder in the new moderns text by KP. Such a nice looing set with the two big coins on each end and the fractionals in the middle.
Are many of you collecting the $50 Gold Buff. business strike coins? I've noticed that they all seem to be about the same price except for a 2008 that I saw sold for $2400 or so. I assumed that this was because the buyer confused the non-W coin with a 2008 W MS.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this. I never assumed that these business strike, non-W coins had much of a premium or collector value.
Thanks, Ron >>
I think the $50 2008w $25 2008w $10 2008w $5 2008w $1 2001d
Buffalo 5 coin type set will be a killer if they only make $50 bullion coins and proofs going forward. Hoping to put a picture of such in a 5 coin multi holder in the new moderns text by KP. Such a nice looing set with the two big coins on each end and the fractionals in the middle.
<< <i> I think the $50 2008w $25 2008w $10 2008w $5 2008w $1 2001d
Buffalo 5 coin type set will be a killer if they only make $50 bullion coins and proofs going forward. Hoping to put a picture of such in a 5 coin multi holder in the new moderns text by KP. Such a nice looing set with the two big coins on each end and the fractionals in the middle.
Eric >>
Better yet.... add a 1913 nickel & make it a 6 coin multi holder!
Comments
<< <i>2009 was a very good year for many of the 2008 dated coins from the mint. With little on the horizon I guess nothing on the horizon that seems to exciting I suppose 2008 coins will still spark much interest. When we sit here a year from now which of these 2008 dated coins will have appreciated the most in 2010 if any. Thanks >>
My guess is the Jackson's Liberty and Van Buren's Liberty $10 (non)Spouse gold coins. Five reasons:
1) The four-coin set will be complete this year.
2) Relatively affordable subset within the open-ended First Spouse series.
3) Attractive classic designs on obverse.
4) Both coins (in both proof and uncirculated) have very low mintages, especially compared to other modern gold commems.
5) Reasonable current premiums above bullion value, giving more room to appreciate on a percentage basis.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>2009 was a very good year for many of the 2008 dated coins from the mint. With little on the horizon I guess nothing on the horizon that seems to exciting I suppose 2008 coins will still spark much interest. When we sit here a year from now which of these 2008 dated coins will have appreciated the most in 2010 if any. Thanks >>
My guess is the Jackson's Liberty and Van Buren's Liberty $10 (non)Spouse gold coins. Five reasons:
1) The four-coin set will be complete this year.
2) Relatively affordable subset within the open-ended First Spouse series.
3) Attractive classic designs on obverse.
4) Both coins (in both proof and uncirculated) have very low mintages, especially compared to other modern gold commems.
5) Reasonable current premiums above bullion value, giving more room to appreciate on a percentage basis. >>
Boy, I don't see these spouses going anywhere anytime soon. It would be interesting if they do. I think buff fractionals will continue to stay in the spotlight. Perhaps the fractional proof plats and unc-w gold eagles will pick up steam.
2008 One Ounce Gold Proof 11,060 -
2008 Half Ounce Gold Proof 4,366 -
2008 Quarter Ounce Gold Proof 5,322 -
2008 Tenth Ounce Gold Proof 11,081 -
2008 4 Coin Gold Proof Set 7,803 -
1 ounce 18,863
1/2 ounce 12,169
1/4 ounce 13,125
1/10 ounce 18,884
These seem to be the new final numbers for the gold buffalo proof, for the other series it appears they are the same as the last ones we had.
........................New .................Old
1 ounce........ 18,863.............25,496
1/2 ounce.... 12,169.............16,620
1/4 ounce.... 13,125.............15,767
1/10 ounce.. 18,884.............25,516
Here is the link for the numbers.
Gold up $22 this AM.
Platinum at 1+ year high of $1525/oz
........................New .................Old
1 ounce........ 18,863.............25,496
1/2 ounce.... 12,169.............16,620
1/4 ounce.... 13,125.............15,767
1/10 ounce.. 18,884.............25,516
Any thoughts on the short term impact of these lower numbers?
******************************************
"Coming Soon: Physically-Backed Platinum ETF?
U.S. investors may soon have access to a fund that physically buys and stores platinum, eliminating the impact that the nuances of futures markets can have. ETF Securities (ETFS) has filed for approval on physically-backed platinum and palladium ETFs, and the proposed funds recently took a major step towards launch. ETFS already offers similar products in Europe that have become extremely popular among investors there.
NEW YORK, Jan 4 (Reuters) - ETF Securities said that a financial firm has bought 100,000 shares of its proposed first-ever U.S. platinum exchange-traded fund (ETF) and delivery is scheduled by the end of the week.
The initial purchaser was Susquehanna Capital Group, which is also the lead market maker, ETF Securities USA said in a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on Dec. 31."
*******************************************************
Since the ETF currently has no supply of platinum all must come from the current market, so platinum prices have responded.
Box of 20
<< <i>This is good news for our platinum coins.
******************************************
"Coming Soon: Physically-Backed Platinum ETF? >>
Actually, this is good news for the bullion value of platinum coins, but not necessarily good news regarding the collector premium for the scarce dates.
If platinum goes up to, say, $4k per ounce, it may discourage potential new plat collectors because of the high entry cost and price risk. It may also encourage further melting and abandonment of the series by current owners.
Under such a scenario, the 1997 bullion plats could actually be better percentage gainers going forward than the 2008-W proofs!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>So the 1/2 ounce will be the king of the buffalos in proof? >>
that's the way I see it... 12,169, but there are 2 MS coins each with sub 10,000 mintages.
One knock against moderns is the lack of attrition and high surviving populations.
It may take some years but in the end a lower supply will translate into higher prices.
Like many on this particular thread I have duplicates of various coins and if a price spike occurs it will give me an opportunity to sell my lower graded coins and the profit will only tighten my grip on those that remain.
Here is a question to consider................if there is another BIG MELT we could expect the lower graded coins to be scraped in far higher percentages than PR/MS 70s.
How would pricing be effected if a 3,000 original mintage coin split evenly between 69s and 70s lost 1000 coins to became a 2000 surviving coin with 500 PR/MS69s and 1500 PR/MS70s ??
<< <i>I would be careful about using sales from the USM site over audited mintages. >>
but of course!
the link given refers to sales. sales does not mean mintages.
Well obviously, the MS69s would be worth more because there are fewer of them!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
Actually, this is good news for the bullion value of platinum coins, but not necessarily good news regarding the collector premium for the scarce dates.
If platinum goes up to, say, $4k per ounce, it may discourage potential new plat collectors because of the high entry cost and price risk. It may also encourage further melting and abandonment of the series by current owners.
Under such a scenario, the 1997 bullion plats could actually be better percentage gainers going forward than the 2008-W proofs! >>
I agree that is a possibility but at $4k an ounce it is tough to complain. I notice the theft of catalytic converters has started again, they just passed a new law in California to try and slow it down.
From what I can gather, that US ETF could add a few hundred thousand ounces more demand per year to platinum, which is probably enough demand to put this year into deficit again. Here is a link for supply demand for platinum.
Platinum supply demand PDF linky
i would love to believe everything I hear from the USM, but unfortunately, I don't and have good reason not to.
the first thing I'd olove for them to explain is why FOIA request numbers do not even come close to final "struck" coins (with a reasonable amount of damaged coins to get us to "mintages")
a little interesting how they cant count too well, heh?
The 2008 plat 1/2 UNC mintage at a little over 2200 is incredibly low, I am not sure if it is true but if it is that will be an amazing coin. I haven't sold any gold buffalo and am not selling any platinum either. The new plat ETF will replace what the mint stopped making and then some. The car industry in China is tiny and growing, things look good for platinum.
PS I wish you also had asked the mint how many coins were melted, or returned, that is the key to the puzzle. Back when we had the 30 day window for returns remember the 4 coin plat unc set went back on sale for a couple days at a much lower price and was within the 30 day return window. If the mint numbers are accurate then many must have ordered new sets at the lower price and returned the higher priced sets and those were destroyed. If we knew how many coin were melted, returned or destroyed then maybe it all makes sense.
<< <i> The new plat ETF will replace what the mint stopped making and then some. The car industry in China is tiny and growing, things look good for platinum.
...............................................................................................................................
China's car market is actually now larger than the USA
Add in India's auto sales and there is a growing industrial market for platinum.
q]
No matter what the numbers turn out to be on those Proof Buffs, they are beautiful coins and will continue to be real popular
Ditto on the Unc Buff's
Dont think we'll see another year like 2008....but never say never
<< <i> The new plat ETF will replace what the mint stopped making and then some. The car industry in China is tiny and growing, things look good for platinum.
...............................................................................................................................
China's car market is actually now larger than the USA
Add in India's auto sales and there is a growing industrial market for platinum.
>>
Yes that's true, I meant tiny in a relative way compared to the number of people using cars. Here is a long list of countries with the number of cars per 1000 people. China is way down the list at 105.
China Linky
<< <i>The 2008 plat 1/2 UNC mintage at a little over 2200 . >>
does this value include the 4-coin set?
75 2008 Platinum Eagles
On another topic, why are 2008 unc-w $25 gold eagle prices so strong? Like the $25 gold unc-w buffs, these are fairly high mintages. Are there really enough collectors for these or are speculators just jumping in to everything 2008?
<< <i>
<< <i>The 2008 plat 1/2 UNC mintage at a little over 2200 . >>
does this value include the 4-coin set? >>
Yes, total is 2253.
Mintage Linky
2008 One Ounce Gold Uncirculated 9,057 -
2008 Half Ounce Gold Uncirculated 5,209 -
2008 Quarter Ounce Gold Uncirculated 6,032 -
2008 Tenth Ounce Gold Uncirculated 9,806 -
2008 4 Coin Gold Uncirculated set 2,851 -
2008 8-8-08 Double Prosperity Set Program One each American Eagle & Buffalo Half Ounce 7,622 -
2008 One Ounce Silver Uncirculated 436,702 $19.95
2008 One Ounce Platinum Uncirculated 1,593 -
2008 Half Ounce Platinum Uncirculated 970 -
2008 Quarter Ounce Platinum Uncirculated 1,198 -
2008 Tenth Ounce Platinum Uncirculated 2,423 -
2008 4 Coin Platinum Uncirculated Set 1,283 -
************************************************
970+1283=2253 final mintage 1/2 ounce plat unc w 2008
this thread to find all the doubters of our claim that 08-W coins would prevail.
<< <i>Wow--who on here has been hoarding??? >>
Our beloved, FloridaBill!
Atta-a-boy, Will!
There was a BIN listed at same time for $6300.
That said, there have been 4 sales for over $6,000 in last 2 weeks for 4 coin proof sets.
Are many of you collecting the $50 Gold Buff. business strike coins? I've noticed that they all seem to be about the same price except for a 2008 that I saw sold for $2400 or so. I assumed that this was because the buyer confused the non-W coin with a 2008 W MS.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this. I never assumed that these business strike, non-W coins had much of a premium or collector value.
Thanks, Ron
<< <i>Folks-
Are many of you collecting the $50 Gold Buff. business strike coins? I've noticed that they all seem to be about the same price except for a 2008 that I saw sold for $2400 or so. I assumed that this was because the buyer confused the non-W coin with a 2008 W MS.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this. I never assumed that these business strike, non-W coins had much of a premium or collector value.
Thanks, Ron >>
I think the
$50 2008w
$25 2008w
$10 2008w
$5 2008w
$1 2001d
Buffalo 5 coin type set will be a killer if they only make $50 bullion coins and proofs going forward. Hoping to put a picture of such in a 5 coin multi holder in the new moderns text by KP. Such a nice looing set with the two big coins on each end and the fractionals in the middle.
Eric
Dont think we'll see another year like 2008....but never say never >>
/
I remember that was said about 2006. You never know with the mint. They have many oars in the water this year.
<< <i>
<< <i>Folks-
Are many of you collecting the $50 Gold Buff. business strike coins? I've noticed that they all seem to be about the same price except for a 2008 that I saw sold for $2400 or so. I assumed that this was because the buyer confused the non-W coin with a 2008 W MS.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this. I never assumed that these business strike, non-W coins had much of a premium or collector value.
Thanks, Ron >>
I think the
$50 2008w
$25 2008w
$10 2008w
$5 2008w
$1 2001d
Buffalo 5 coin type set will be a killer if they only make $50 bullion coins and proofs going forward. Hoping to put a picture of such in a 5 coin multi holder in the new moderns text by KP. Such a nice looing set with the two big coins on each end and the fractionals in the middle.
Eric >>
I agree - would be an awsome set!!
What's the latest on the book? I'm very much looking forward to it.
Best, Ron
<< <i>
I think the
$50 2008w
$25 2008w
$10 2008w
$5 2008w
$1 2001d
Buffalo 5 coin type set will be a killer if they only make $50 bullion coins and proofs going forward. Hoping to put a picture of such in a 5 coin multi holder in the new moderns text by KP. Such a nice looing set with the two big coins on each end and the fractionals in the middle.
Eric >>
Better yet.... add a 1913 nickel & make it a 6 coin multi holder!
<< <i>Ericj96-
What's the latest on the book? I'm very much looking forward to it.
Best, Ron >>
I wonder if the book will sellout like the 2009 W $100 plat?
Hopefully it won't come crashing back down to earth like in mid 2008!
<< <i>At about 11:00 am EST, Platinum just cracked through $1600/ounce...
Hopefully it won't come crashing back down to earth like in mid 2008! >>
$10,000/oz or bust! Followed by a realization that there are only 16 remaining platinum eagles from the ENTIRE series!
Gritsman, that will be true if, and only if jmski falls upon hard times.
I knew it would happen.
Market is getting harder to read as 90% of all platinum offerings on Ebay are BIN with only rare true auctions.