<< <i>Question for the forum (or especially Eric):
The 2006-W burnished uncirculated platinum set is the rarest coin set ever issued by the United States in many years. How many years, to be exact?
The 2008-W platinum proof set is the rarest proof set ever issued by the United States in many years. How many years, to be exact?
The 2006-W $50.00 platinum burnished uncirculated coin is the single rarest United States coin struck in many years. How many years, to be exact?
The 2008-W $50.00 platinum proof coin is the single rarest United States proof coin struck in many years. How many years, to be exact?
Many thanks!
David >>
... I spoke with Eric, and he confirmed to me that the answer to all four above questions is 94 years .... these are the rarest coins ever minted for official release to collectors since 1915!
I believe a perfect storm is brewing to make the 09 W ASE proof and uncirclated the lowest mintage year to date. Any opinions on here. The mint hasn't even announced a release date on these yet. Here's a link to a discussion about these. 09 W ASEs
<< <i>I believe a perfect storm is brewing to make the 09 W ASE proof and uncirclated the lowest mintage year to date. Any opinions on here. The mint hasn't even announced a release date on these yet. Here's a link to a discussion about these. 09 W ASEs >>
Certainly worth keeping an eye on. Big collector base there.
<< <i>I believe a perfect storm is brewing to make the 09 W ASE proof and uncirclated the lowest mintage year to date. Any opinions on here. The mint hasn't even announced a release date on these yet. Here's a link to a discussion about these. 09 W ASEs >>
Thanks for the great heads up!! Wonder if these will even be minted.
>>What about the 2008-W Jackson Liberty First Strike MS70.............A coin that would fit into this thread?<<
The real sleeper is the proof, with reported sales of 7,806. The MS version has a lower mintage (4,754), but collector demand generally favors proofs by a ratio of about 3 to 1. So in relation to demand, I expect the proofs to surpass the uncirculated coins and eventually fetch a higher price. Compared to the 2008-W proof plats, the Jackson proof mintages are not that much higher, and the Jacksons have the added advantage that there are multiple gold collectors for every platinum collector.
Currently I see four unc. Jacksons on eBay, compared to only one proof at a much higher price. By comparison, there are 10 2008-W $10 proof Platinum Eagles on eBay at the moment.
Add the fact that the really stunning design shows up much better on the proof than on the uncirculated version. The Jackson Liberty is, to my mind, one of the best looking products to be released by the Mint in recent years. It is also part of the non-Spouse "short set" of classic coin images, which will generate much more collector demand than the Spouse series as a whole.
The Van Buren Liberty, still on sale by the Mint, could easily have a low mintage similar to that of the Jackson Liberty. Both of the Jackson coins were withdrawn from sale at different times, and the medal is still on sale. This differs from prior issues, which were generally withdrawn about a year after going on sale or when the 40,000 issue limit was reached, whichever occurred first. The Jacksons may have been struck in a small quantity because of an anticipated small demand, based on declining sales of previous Spouse issues. The same may be true of the Van Buren. If this is the case, I consider it unlikely that additional Van Buren coins will be struck, as they would have to be pre-dated (the Van Buren coins were first issued in 2008).
With gold back at $1000, the Van Buren proofs are priced at $154 above their $500 melt value. They're speculative coins until final mintage figures are released, but I don't consider them to be unduly high risk coins at their current price.
Eric I understand everything you have tried to say with one omission that was very briefly brushed against. You have not made the point of the precious metals, falling dollar, bad economy, falling gold and silver output and a host of things that will be driving the metals themselves up the wall and what this will do to the key coins going into hiding on an intrinsic basis. Just a thought!
Hank
Hosspower is just plain "FUN". A Spade is a Spade. We all want mo Money. And everybody wanna go to Heaven, but nobody wanna Die !!
Where have all the 2005 and 2006 platinum proofs gone??
I was checking Ebay for price trends on 4 coins sets and 1 oz. single coin in OGP with COAs and found almost nothing even completed items showed few if any coins.
Has the AGE proof in OGP fever spilled over to the proof platinums??
A bunch of common date plat proofs, along with some scarce dates, were likely melted during the price runup in 2007 and 2008. This leaves fewer sets for plat collectors, especially since there may be no platinum proofs or bullion coins struck in 2009.
I wonder, what do readers here think, are people able to afford collecting or holding platinum sets? I have a few but these make you cough a bit....
I guess that Clapp was wondering if anybody would appreciate the hand picked coins he picked up during the years of issue, and as best as I can tell nobody did for many years - the silver dollars especially was just money tied up in bullion for many many years. Don't know if the comparison is fair but makes one think.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
Personally I'm a seller of AGE proofs and holder of APE proofs and APE W uncirculated.
That $500-600 premium per 1 oz. on AGE proofs is just too good to turn down. I really think it will drop dramaticly when mint starts issuing 2009 or 2010s.
Seeing the premium paid for OGP and COAs on AGEs and to lessor extent on APEs I'm a speculative buyer with 3-10 year horizon for buffalo gold OGP with COAs.
<< <i>I wonder, what do readers here think, are people able to afford collecting or holding platinum sets? I have a few but these make you cough a bit....
I guess that Clapp was wondering if anybody would appreciate the hand picked coins he picked up during the years of issue, and as best as I can tell nobody did for many years - the silver dollars especially was just money tied up in bullion for many many years. Don't know if the comparison is fair but makes one think. >>
I think the ideal situation would be to have purchased additional sets and then sell them at a profit so that your base holdings are essentially free. That way you don't have to worry about your money being tied up.
<< <i>I wonder, what do readers here think, are people able to afford collecting or holding platinum sets? I have a few but these make you cough a bit....
I guess that Clapp was wondering if anybody would appreciate the hand picked coins he picked up during the years of issue, and as best as I can tell nobody did for many years - the silver dollars especially was just money tied up in bullion for many many years. Don't know if the comparison is fair but makes one think. >>
I think the ideal situation would be to have purchased additional sets and then sell them at a profit so that your base holdings are essentially free. That way you don't have to worry about your money being tied up. >>
Hi Coasterfan-
I purchased a lot of Plats and Buffs on Nov. 13th when they came back on sale. I sold about 1/3 of them later in '08 and early '09 for a nice profit. That said, it makes me sick seeing NGC PF70DCAM sets going for over $6K that I sold for about $3600, Plat Unc sets going for $1K more than I sold for and the Buffs selling for 2-3X what I sold for. Thankfully I still have 2/3 of what I bought. I'm not one to argue with a profit, but I sure wish that I'd held them all.
I posted the following on another thread - so sorry if you've already read it. I know that the Modern gurus read this thread so I wanted to post here as well as I value many or your opinions a LOT.
Thanks!! Ron
The post:
I would greatly appreciate any info on the "Proof-like" designation that another grading service, begins with N, is giving to some UHR Saints. How many are there? What are they worth? What do you all think of the Proof-Like designation? PCGS says that they will not be using this designation, now or in the future for UHRs.
The PL designation is bringing about $900 more than MS 70s. Do you all think that there is any long term potential for these? Are you buying them? I agree that they all look proof like to me. Has anyone seen one of the PL coins? If it was placed next to a non-PL and you were blinded as to which was which could you tell the difference?
Also, with the purchase limit removed, we'll likely be seeing more PLs.
<< <i>A bunch of common date plat proofs, along with some scarce dates, were likely melted during the price runup in 2007 and 2008. This leaves fewer sets for plat collectors, especially since there may be no platinum proofs or bullion coins struck in 2009. >>
I doubt this is a huge factor in the scarcity of plats. I think what the run-up did was make people who didn't sell think, "Oh gee, at $1300/oz, I'm not gonna sell when I could've sold for $2300/oz." i.e. people are waiting for platinum to go up. This, unfortunately, has all but killed the market as almost nothing is available at a fair price. This could take years to resolve, but I hope not.
I tend to agree with Grits and know I was planning on selling some plats but missed the peak, and though, well dam_, I will wait for prices to come back and so have a couple on the block when the price comes again. I think those that had would have sold if the peak had lasted longer, but it did not.
How many hit the absolute peak by selling in the 1980 silver/gold runup?
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
>>Spike lasted over 3 months and I believe those who wanted to sell did so leaving an increased % of APEs in stronger hands.<<
Several people reported selling multiple plats to the smelters, including some 2006-W burnished $100's. Those coins are not in stronger hands, they're likely gone forever.
What are the 2008w plat uncs sets going for nowadays? I have had a set available for sometime and no one seems interested, except for rediculously low offers.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I don't recall the spike lasting at 2300 for three months, maybe someone can show the graph...So far I have not seen a lot of evidence for the "great meltdown". This may have happened but the reports have only been anecdotal, and frankly the records may not be available in any case.
Also, I will repeat the question: how many people hit the peak with their sale either this time or in the 1980 spike?
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>I don't recall the spike lasting at 2300 for three months, maybe someone can show the graph...So far I have not seen a lot of evidence for the "great meltdown". This may have happened but the reports have only been anecdotal, and frankly the records may not be available in any case.
Also, I will repeat the question: how many people hit the peak with their sale either this time or in the 1980 spike? >>
I sold 30 ounces at around $1950
The spike to $2300 was very short lived maybe a few days or so.
The price did stay above $1900 for around 4 months.
See kitco.com for graph of prices......................
Well Guys I haven’t been on this thread much for about a year….
Been doing a little research on coinage history, their behavior over time, weekly sale report behavior, the impact metals prices have on numismatic values, the positive impact modern high value rare coins can have on intergenerational wealth transfer, series growth rates as they mature, master mintage listings for all modern eagles and commems (no 2008 yet), the impact of enabling legislation on the sets final form…. its almost too much to list and its all on moderns and how they behave.
I sent my “notes” to KP and they were kind enough to offer to buy the study and publish it so I signed the rights of the text over to them and they plan on printing a serious moderns book in the spring-summer of next year after making some improvements. In all the text is composed of:
40,000 words 50 charts 6 huge tables Countless small tables 250 pictures covering just about every modern design 256 pages in all.
More or less I wrote down everything I knew about coins plus everything I have wanted to know but couldn’t find easily. Spent about 1,000 hours research. So glad its over….. Hopefully it will be helpful to those willing to see opportunity in relatively new issues.
Eric - Congratulations on your book deal with KP. Thanks for the update and I know that I will be looking forward to hearing of the book. Hopefully the book deal will not prevent you from commenting on the market as I have benefited from your insights in the past.
<< <i>Eric - Congratulations on your book deal with KP. Thanks for the update and I know that I will be looking forward to hearing of the book. Hopefully the book deal will not prevent you from commenting on the market as I have benefited from your insights in the past. >>
I bet you take your royalty checks and buy more AGEs and APEs!!
Coin books are a small market but yes you are correct I will (already have spent it on coins). Pay off some money I owe on 2008....... still got a ton of that stuff in every form and not in a big hurry to get rid of it either.
I will be commenting a little less over the next 8 or 9 months but if we all need to go buy something I will let you guys know. Mint buy info will go bad by the spring so I can tell you that.
It means that any info about coins closing that may come up between now and the end of the year I can share because its not something I can put in the text and have it still be relevent in the spring.
<< <i>>>Spike lasted over 3 months and I believe those who wanted to sell did so leaving an increased % of APEs in stronger hands.<<
Several people reported selling multiple plats to the smelters, including some 2006-W burnished $100's. Those coins are not in stronger hands, they're likely gone forever. >>
.... and that said, I love admiring my stack of 2006-W $100.00 Burnished Uncirculated Platinum Eagles in PCGS-70 "First Strike" Holders!
Mintage: 3060
Melted: Several Hundred
Net surviving coins in all grades: 2800 or so!
The rarest large-denomination precious-metal coin ever struck by the United States since 1915!
Comments
<< <i>Question for the forum (or especially Eric):
The 2006-W burnished uncirculated platinum set is the rarest coin set ever issued by the United States
in many years. How many years, to be exact?
The 2008-W platinum proof set is the rarest proof set ever issued by the United States in many years.
How many years, to be exact?
The 2006-W $50.00 platinum burnished uncirculated coin is the single rarest United States coin struck in
many years. How many years, to be exact?
The 2008-W $50.00 platinum proof coin is the single rarest United States proof coin struck in many years.
How many years, to be exact?
Many thanks!
David >>
... I spoke with Eric, and he confirmed to me that the answer to all four above questions is 94 years ....
these are the rarest coins ever minted for official release to collectors since 1915!
<< <i>I hope you provide answers David; I'm too lazy for a quiz this morning!
Maybe Eric will chime in-- I spoke with him recently, and believe he has some good news to share. >>
I hope that your're right NYC. I really miss his input. I certainly appreciate your informative posts as well!!
I look forward to the release of the final, audited #s for the 2008 issues. Lord knows when that will be.
<< <i>
<< <i>I hope you provide answers David; I'm too lazy for a quiz this morning!
Maybe Eric will chime in-- I spoke with him recently, and believe he has some good news to share. >>
I hope that your're right NYC. I really miss his input. I certainly appreciate your informative posts as well!!
I look forward to the release of the final, audited #s for the 2008 issues. Lord knows when that will be. >>
... I am hoping shortly after September 30th, when the Federal year closes out and audited numbers have
to be in .....
09 W ASEs
Box of 20
<< <i>I believe a perfect storm is brewing to make the 09 W ASE proof and uncirclated the lowest mintage year to date. Any opinions on here. The mint hasn't even announced a release date on these yet. Here's a link to a discussion about these.
09 W ASEs >>
Certainly worth keeping an eye on. Big collector base there.
<< <i>I believe a perfect storm is brewing to make the 09 W ASE proof and uncirclated the lowest mintage year to date. Any opinions on here. The mint hasn't even announced a release date on these yet. Here's a link to a discussion about these.
09 W ASEs >>
Thanks for the great heads up!! Wonder if these will even be minted.
The real sleeper is the proof, with reported sales of 7,806. The MS version has a lower mintage (4,754), but collector demand generally favors proofs by a ratio of about 3 to 1. So in relation to demand, I expect the proofs to surpass the uncirculated coins and eventually fetch a higher price. Compared to the 2008-W proof plats, the Jackson proof mintages are not that much higher, and the Jacksons have the added advantage that there are multiple gold collectors for every platinum collector.
Currently I see four unc. Jacksons on eBay, compared to only one proof at a much higher price. By comparison, there are 10 2008-W $10 proof Platinum Eagles on eBay at the moment.
Add the fact that the really stunning design shows up much better on the proof than on the uncirculated version. The Jackson Liberty is, to my mind, one of the best looking products to be released by the Mint in recent years. It is also part of the non-Spouse "short set" of classic coin images, which will generate much more collector demand than the Spouse series as a whole.
The Van Buren Liberty, still on sale by the Mint, could easily have a low mintage similar to that of the Jackson Liberty. Both of the Jackson coins were withdrawn from sale at different times, and the medal is still on sale. This differs from prior issues, which were generally withdrawn about a year after going on sale or when the 40,000 issue limit was reached, whichever occurred first. The Jacksons may have been struck in a small quantity because of an anticipated small demand, based on declining sales of previous Spouse issues. The same may be true of the Van Buren. If this is the case, I consider it unlikely that additional Van Buren coins will be struck, as they would have to be pre-dated (the Van Buren coins were first issued in 2008).
With gold back at $1000, the Van Buren proofs are priced at $154 above their $500 melt value. They're speculative coins until final mintage figures are released, but I don't consider them to be unduly high risk coins at their current price.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>I hope you provide answers David; I'm too lazy for a quiz this morning!
Maybe Eric will chime in-- I spoke with him recently, and believe he has some good news to share. >>
I'm not sure that I can hold my breath much longer...
Just a thought!
Hank
A Spade is a Spade.
We all want mo Money.
And everybody wanna go to Heaven,
but nobody wanna Die !!
Ol' Hank !!!
<< <i>HAPPY ANNIVERSARY to this & arguably the best thread here!
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
I was checking Ebay for price trends on 4 coins sets and 1 oz. single coin in OGP with COAs and found almost nothing even completed items showed few if any coins.
Has the AGE proof in OGP fever spilled over to the proof platinums??
Good luck finding Proof Plat sets for the past few months...bravo!
Miles
I searched for "platinum proof eagle 4 coin set " and got at grand total of 5 of the 4 coin sets being offered with only one a true auction.
That is kind of amazing. ...............11 years of production and only 5 sets being offered.
I knew it would happen.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I guess that Clapp was wondering if anybody would appreciate the hand picked coins he picked up during the years of issue, and as best as I can tell nobody did for many years - the silver dollars especially was just money tied up in bullion for many many years. Don't know if the comparison is fair but makes one think.
Well, just Love coins, period.
That $500-600 premium per 1 oz. on AGE proofs is just too good to turn down.
I really think it will drop dramaticly when mint starts issuing 2009 or 2010s.
Seeing the premium paid for OGP and COAs on AGEs and to lessor extent on APEs I'm a speculative buyer with 3-10 year horizon for buffalo gold OGP with COAs.
<< <i>I wonder, what do readers here think, are people able to afford collecting or holding platinum sets? I have a few but these make you cough a bit....
I guess that Clapp was wondering if anybody would appreciate the hand picked coins he picked up during the years of issue, and as best as I can tell nobody did for many years - the silver dollars especially was just money tied up in bullion for many many years. Don't know if the comparison is fair but makes one think. >>
I think the ideal situation would be to have purchased additional sets and then sell them at a profit so that your base holdings are essentially free. That way you don't have to worry about your money being tied up.
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder, what do readers here think, are people able to afford collecting or holding platinum sets? I have a few but these make you cough a bit....
I guess that Clapp was wondering if anybody would appreciate the hand picked coins he picked up during the years of issue, and as best as I can tell nobody did for many years - the silver dollars especially was just money tied up in bullion for many many years. Don't know if the comparison is fair but makes one think. >>
I think the ideal situation would be to have purchased additional sets and then sell them at a profit so that your base holdings are essentially free. That way you don't have to worry about your money being tied up. >>
Hi Coasterfan-
I purchased a lot of Plats and Buffs on Nov. 13th when they came back on sale. I sold about 1/3 of them later in '08 and early '09 for a nice profit. That said, it makes me sick seeing NGC PF70DCAM sets going for over $6K that I sold for about $3600, Plat Unc sets going for $1K more than I sold for and the Buffs selling for 2-3X what I sold for. Thankfully I still have 2/3 of what I bought. I'm not one to argue with a profit, but I sure wish that I'd held them all.
I posted the following on another thread - so sorry if you've already read it. I know that the Modern gurus read this thread so I wanted to post here as well as I value many or your opinions a LOT.
Thanks!! Ron
The post:
I would greatly appreciate any info on the "Proof-like" designation that another grading service, begins with N, is giving to some UHR Saints. How many are there? What are they worth? What do you all think of the Proof-Like designation? PCGS says that they will not be using this designation, now or in the future for UHRs.
The PL designation is bringing about $900 more than MS 70s. Do you all think that there is any long term potential for these? Are you buying them? I agree that they all look proof like to me. Has anyone seen one of the PL coins? If it was placed next to a non-PL and you were blinded as to which was which could you tell the difference?
Also, with the purchase limit removed, we'll likely be seeing more PLs.
Again, thanks for any thoughts. Ron
<< <i>A bunch of common date plat proofs, along with some scarce dates, were likely melted during the price runup in 2007 and 2008. This leaves fewer sets for plat collectors, especially since there may be no platinum proofs or bullion coins struck in 2009. >>
I doubt this is a huge factor in the scarcity of plats. I think what the run-up did was make people who didn't sell think, "Oh gee, at $1300/oz, I'm not gonna sell when I could've sold for $2300/oz." i.e. people are waiting for platinum to go up. This, unfortunately, has all but killed the market as almost nothing is available at a fair price. This could take years to resolve, but I hope not.
Spike lasted over 3 months and I believe those who wanted to sell did so leaving an increased % of APEs in stronger hands.
It simply takes more money to pry coins from grip of stronger hands.
There is likely also some halo effect from current 50% premium over spot being seen for AGE proofs.
How many hit the absolute peak by selling in the 1980 silver/gold runup?
Well, just Love coins, period.
Several people reported selling multiple plats to the smelters, including some 2006-W burnished $100's. Those coins are not in stronger hands, they're likely gone forever.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Also, I will repeat the question: how many people hit the peak with their sale either this time or in the 1980 spike?
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>I don't recall the spike lasting at 2300 for three months, maybe someone can show the graph...So far I have not seen a lot of evidence for the "great meltdown". This may have happened but the reports have only been anecdotal, and frankly the records may not be available in any case.
Also, I will repeat the question: how many people hit the peak with their sale either this time or in the 1980 spike? >>
I sold 30 ounces at around $1950
The spike to $2300 was very short lived maybe a few days or so.
The price did stay above $1900 for around 4 months.
See kitco.com for graph of prices......................
<< <i>I WOULD HOLD AND NOT SELL. I AM NO EXPERT OR HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL BUT THE FUTURE HOLDS PROMISE. THATS MY 2 CENTS. >>
And this is what's going on with everyone--which is why we don't have a platinum market these days.
Common bullion plats, burnished, or proof? Any scarce dates?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Been doing a little research on coinage history, their behavior over time, weekly sale report behavior, the impact metals prices have on numismatic values, the positive impact modern high value rare coins can have on intergenerational wealth transfer, series growth rates as they mature, master mintage listings for all modern eagles and commems (no 2008 yet), the impact of enabling legislation on the sets final form…. its almost too much to list and its all on moderns and how they behave.
I sent my “notes” to KP and they were kind enough to offer to buy the study and publish it so I signed the rights of the text over to them and they plan on printing a serious moderns book in the spring-summer of next year after making some improvements. In all the text is composed of:
40,000 words
50 charts
6 huge tables
Countless small tables
250 pictures covering just about every modern design
256 pages in all.
More or less I wrote down everything I knew about coins plus everything I have wanted to know but couldn’t find easily. Spent about 1,000 hours research. So glad its over….. Hopefully it will be helpful to those willing to see opportunity in relatively new issues.
Thanks
Eric Jordan
Hopefully the book deal will not prevent you from commenting on the market as I have benefited from your insights in the past.
<< <i>Eric - Congratulations on your book deal with KP. Thanks for the update and I know that I will be looking forward to hearing of the book.
Hopefully the book deal will not prevent you from commenting on the market as I have benefited from your insights in the past. >>
I bet you take your royalty checks and buy more AGEs and APEs!!
I will be commenting a little less over the next 8 or 9 months but if we all need to go buy something I will let you guys know. Mint buy info will go bad by the spring so I can tell you that.
Mint buy info will go bad by the spring so I can tell you that.
I'm not sure what that means. I suspect that the Mint is cutting back on bullion products for the forseeable future - is that what you meant?
I knew it would happen.
because its not something I can put in the text and have it still be relevent in the spring.
<< <i>>>Spike lasted over 3 months and I believe those who wanted to sell did so leaving an increased % of APEs in stronger hands.<<
Several people reported selling multiple plats to the smelters, including some 2006-W burnished $100's. Those coins are not in stronger hands, they're likely gone forever. >>
.... and that said, I love admiring my stack of 2006-W $100.00 Burnished Uncirculated Platinum Eagles in PCGS-70 "First Strike" Holders!
Mintage: 3060
Melted: Several Hundred
Net surviving coins in all grades: 2800 or so!
The rarest large-denomination precious-metal coin ever struck by the United States since 1915!
<< <i>I look forward to buying a signed copy of first edition of book. >>
DITTO THAT Eric - I'd love to buy a signed copy or two as well!!
Congrats on the book. Great to hear from you again!!
Thanks for offering to clue us in on any must buy coins.
Best, Ron