you just knew it in hafners last at bat, if there was anyone due in that game it was him. He had 3 or 4 chances to break open the game and didn't, and vizzy just doesn't have the stuff to blow by anyone.
Anyone who's watched the yankees all year, just knows that the bugs got to joba last night (not an excuse, because it didn't hurt the indians pitchers or rivera, BUT the swarming seemed at least 3-4 times worse when he was pitching than any others) and then cleared up. That was an anomaly last night and shouldn't happen again.
The yankees have to wake the bats up, maybe they can get Cerano to switch sides and ask JoBu for some help, at this point, ANYTHING is welcomed to get the bats going.
<< <i>Ax I am a scientist and use stats every day please feel free tell me what statistical models best fit this type of data as you are still throwing up straw man attacks to get your point across. There is a difference between population (weree you know all the data) and sample statistics (where you know part of the data and make inferences about future trends and what the whole data set would look like). Please let me know what model you would use? >>
Come on, you want to look at his last, what, 35 at bats, then ignore his previous 50 at bats, where he went 16-50, batting over .330.
But if it makes you feel better to bash the guy who has a great chance to be the best all around player any of us have ever seen, have at it. Those of us who know how to determine a hitter's worth know, though, that he's a fantastic hitter both in the regular season and postseason.
I didn't think you would offer a real answer as it is an interesting question whether someones postseason at bats as a whole is a population our could be thought of as a small sample of at bats that fit into a larger data set. The question is whether post season play creates a whole new data set. Most fans and commentators believe it should as there is more pressure and everything seems to be magnified by the media. One thing about A-rod is that with 50 post seasons at bats and 500 at bats being a normal full season, that is a 10% sample amount of data. That is way more than enough to start making statistical based trends on.
Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
<< <i>I didn't think you would offer a real answer as it is an interesting question whether someones postseason at bats as a whole is a population our could be thought of as a small sample of at bats that fit into a larger data set. The question is whether post season play creates a whole new data set. Most fans and commentators believe it should as there is more pressure and everything seems to be magnified by the media. One thing about A-rod is that with 50 post seasons at bats and 500 at bats being a normal full season, that is a 10% sample amount of data. That is way more than enough to start making statistical based trends on. >>
Morgoth, I would have bet good money that Axtroll would never have taken you on with what you asked him.
enough about the Yankees...let's hear it for the Cubs!!! Opps...I meant the Phillies!!! to be honest I'm diehard Indians fan and did not read this entire thread but why is it that before the first game of the series I read online that the series was opening up in the BRONX??? Don't remember which of the sports sites it was on but you would have thought they would have had the correct city to start out with...or is it just that everyone just by past history assumed the Yankees were the home team...maybe some special exception from normal series set ups??? oh well....go Indians.
You want to think that 35 at bats is enough of a sample size to determine if Arod is a postseason 'choker' or not (the number of at bats in his last 3 postseason series).
However, in his previous 85 postseason at bats, he went a combined 29-85, batting .341.
So, which is it? Is he a choker or not? We have two sets of numbers that are in direct conflict with each other. Based on the larger sample size (85), it's clear that he's better than the past 11 games would indicate, and that these 11 games and 35 at bats are an aberration, and clearly not the definition of Arod's postseason batting abilities.
There are those who cannot possibly be troubled with things like 'facts' or 'statistics', and if you want to ignore those and say 'Arod's a choker!', well then I am done trying to convince you. The numbers don't lie. The numbers aren't swayed by emotional fans who *know* they are right when they say that Arod's a choker in the playoffs.
The numbers are there for anyone who wants to open their mind instead of closing it.
What is Arod's full postseason stats? He has not performed for the Yankees in the postseason, but how many ABs does he have over his entire postseason career and what are the numbers then? Performing for the Yankees has alot more pressure, so his postseason stats are understandably low. Although some athletes strive in pressure situations, Arod does not seem like one of them.
"So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve
<< <i>He has not performed for the Yankees in the postseason >>
That's just it which makes it even more unthinkable because he has so much better a line up with the Yankees to protect him yet he's 4 for his last 50. Some players can't handle New York when it comes time for the big show, and so far Arod is one of them
Woah, wait a minute...Arod hasn't performed for the yankees in the postseason? Also, just knock it off with this whole BS that performing in the postseason in NY is somehow more pressure filled or difficult. And you clowns wonder why people hate yankee fans? Get over yourselves already! The playoffs are pressure packed for EVERYBODY, not just new york you twit!
In 2004, for the NY YANKEES, he went 16-50, batting .320...in NEW YORK, for the YANKEES.
Since then, he has had EXACTLY 35 at bats, and has struggled mightily.
To say he can't perform in NY in the playoffs is a blatant LIE as the FACTS are there to prove he has succeeded in NY. To say he can't hit in the postseason in NY is a LIE.
You guys hate Arod so much you'll probably boo the next time he hits a postseason home run!
Obviously the guy can perform in NEW YORK in OCTOBER, as he has done it in the past. Because simple-minded fools like you 'fans' want to claim otherwise doesn't make it so.
You know NOTHING about New York. NOTHING. It's different here more than anywhere else. People crack under the strain. I've seen it my entire life. I know, you think that's arrogant and so forth, but it's true.
He is 4 for his last 50. He succumbed to the pressure. It's magnified because he's the best regular season hitter in the game and the highest paid player to boot.
Don't worry Ax you can keep your argument intact forever. If he continues to suck in the postseason in NY you'll continue going on about stats from 4 years ago and prior, and he rocks and rolls you'll give us the old "I told you so."
I'm rooting for the guy. I want him to come through big time, but until he does he's going to have the label.
<< <i>You know NOTHING about New York. NOTHING. It's different here more than anywhere else. People crack under the strain. I've seen it my entire life. I know, you think that's arrogant and so forth, but it's true.
He is 4 for his last 50. He succumbed to the pressure. It's magnified because he's the best regular season hitter in the game and the highest paid player to boot. >>
Then tell me, oh mighty new yorker, how do you explain his batting over .300 in his first postseason under that supposedly MASSIVE pressure that there is NOPLACE ELSE IN THE WORLD?!?!?
<< <i>Don't worry Ax you can keep your argument intact forever. If he continues to suck in the postseason in NY you'll continue going on about stats from 4 years ago and prior, and he rocks and rolls you'll give us the old "I told you so."
I'm rooting for the guy. I want him to come through big time, but until he does he's going to have the label. >>
You aren't rooting for the guy. If you were, you wouldn't be taking 50 at bats out of context and painting him a choker. You'd be looking at the ENTIRE picture, not just the parts that fit your moronic and self-defeating agenda.
<< <i>Then tell me, oh mighty new yorker, how do you explain his batting over .300 in his first postseason under that supposedly MASSIVE pressure that there is NOPLACE ELSE IN THE WORLD?!?!? >>
I don't honestly know for sure, but I believe that the 4 game sweep by Boston cracked him. The magnitude of such a collapse changed him. Now he could break out of it at any time, but until he does...
<< <i>You aren't rooting for the guy. If you were, you wouldn't be taking 50 at bats out of context and painting him a choker. >>
I root for him every night. With a man on in the 9th inning Friday Alex was having a good at bat, and I was on the edge of my chair thinking this is is. He failed again. I never called him a choker. I brought the whole thing up because you were ragging on Jeter. The man has 4 World Series rings. He's got the postseason rep.
<< <i> I brought the whole thing up because you were ragging on Jeter. The man has 4 World Series rings. He's got the postseason rep. >>
And yet Jeter's career postseason numbers are .311/.380/.473.
His career regular season numbers are .317/.388/.462.
For all intents and purposes, I'd consider this statistically identical. In other words, Jeter performs no better in the postseason than in the regular season. Yet get a streak or two of hitting in the clutch and no matter how many other bad performances you have -- he was .200/.333/.233 in the 2004 ALCS, for example, and a miserable .148/.179/.259 in the 2001 WS, both seven game series where one or two more big hits may have changed the outcome -- he'll always be "Mister Clutch" to some.
Granted, Jeter performing "inline" is better than what you'll get from most shortstops. But it's not like he becomes a statistical Superman in October.
1st game ive watched in all baseball playoffs, i dont know whos won what much,saw where sox and rockies got their series,im trying to play catch up,i watched last of the dodgers today -had strep thoat for a week,not fun,arod definately isnt doing squat, be nice if he was,maybe tiomorrow nit, last time they came back from a 2-0 was oakland a's i think-possible i suppose but im not holding my breath,ny tommorrow,is last one in cleveland if needed?
<< <i>Arod is 2-4 tonight...that damn choker!!! >>
That was encouraging, but it would be nice if he could knock in some RBI's. He has 0 RBI's in his last 54 post season at bats. >>
hahaha
never enough is it? And don't you know RBIs are more a function of a team than an individual? I would think someone who calls them such an astute fan like you do would understand that!
once again the great Axstrodamus is predictably wrong, scram you loser, go play in someone else's yard
Back to the topic at hand "2007 NY YANKEES run at the WORLD SERIES "
Nice game last night, finally a breath of relief. Jeter and A-Rod (and everyone up else up until last night) are killing us right now, but a new day brings a new game, and anything can happen. I really hope Joe doesn't run Wang out there tonight, with the way Mussina sacked up the last few weeks of the season, i'd like to see him go (with a really short lease just in case).
Philip Hughes was the man last night, and Joba showed the TRUE Joba, not the bug infested fake Joba we saw in Cleveland
Should be interesting, I'm looking for a big night from Jorge (he's due). Lets go Yankees
<< <i>Arod is 2-4 tonight...that damn choker!!! >>
That was encouraging, but it would be nice if he could knock in some RBI's. He has 0 RBI's in his last 54 post season at bats. >>
Jeter is 1 for 12 in the series and struggles throwing the ball to 1st. He must be a choker! Without A-Rod the Yanks finish 20 out and you're watching the Jets.
<< <i>hopefully the leash on wang will be as short or shorter as Clemens' was, can't let this one get away early. >>
Yeah, it was.
But the problem is that not the Yankees have little long relief remaining even if they used Moose here. I suppose Hughes might be available for a couple innings in Game 5 if it gets there...and who knows? Would they get desperate enough to use Pettitte? Doubt it, but with backs to the wall, you never know (though that would seem to leave no one to start Game 5 unless they hoped to get five innings out of Villone in an emergency start). With the Bombers down 6-1, they can't let too many more come across even with their potent offense. I know they can easily score five runs and then some...but they need to be able to stop Cleveland's bats, too.
Comments
Anyone who's watched the yankees all year, just knows that the bugs got to joba last night (not an excuse, because it didn't hurt the indians pitchers or rivera, BUT the swarming seemed at least 3-4 times worse when he was pitching than any others) and then cleared up. That was an anomaly last night and shouldn't happen again.
The yankees have to wake the bats up, maybe they can get Cerano to switch sides and ask JoBu for some help, at this point, ANYTHING is welcomed to get the bats going.
Clemens better nut it up. Go Yankees!
<< <i>Ax I am a scientist and use stats every day please feel free tell me what statistical models best fit this type of data as you are still throwing up straw man attacks to get your point across. There is a difference between population (weree you know all the data) and sample statistics (where you know part of the data and make inferences about future trends and what the whole data set would look like). Please let me know what model you would use? >>
He uses the "Modesto Manzier Model."
Not accurate but quite entertaining.
But if it makes you feel better to bash the guy who has a great chance to be the best all around player any of us have ever seen, have at it. Those of us who know how to determine a hitter's worth know, though, that he's a fantastic hitter both in the regular season and postseason.
I said *almost*.
<< <i>I didn't think you would offer a real answer as it is an interesting question whether someones postseason at bats as a whole is a population our could be thought of as a small sample of at bats that fit into a larger data set. The question is whether post season play creates a whole new data set. Most fans and commentators believe it should as there is more pressure and everything seems to be magnified by the media. One thing about A-rod is that with 50 post seasons at bats and 500 at bats being a normal full season, that is a 10% sample amount of data. That is way more than enough to start making statistical based trends on. >>
Morgoth, I would have bet good money that Axtroll would never have taken you on with what you asked him.
<< <i>enough about the Yankees >>
But this is a Yankees thread
Silly Indians fan
You want to think that 35 at bats is enough of a sample size to determine if Arod is a postseason 'choker' or not (the number of at bats in his last 3 postseason series).
However, in his previous 85 postseason at bats, he went a combined 29-85, batting .341.
So, which is it? Is he a choker or not? We have two sets of numbers that are in direct conflict with each other. Based on the larger sample size (85), it's clear that he's better than the past 11 games would indicate, and that these 11 games and 35 at bats are an aberration, and clearly not the definition of Arod's postseason batting abilities.
There are those who cannot possibly be troubled with things like 'facts' or 'statistics', and if you want to ignore those and say 'Arod's a choker!', well then I am done trying to convince you. The numbers don't lie. The numbers aren't swayed by emotional fans who *know* they are right when they say that Arod's a choker in the playoffs.
The numbers are there for anyone who wants to open their mind instead of closing it.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
<< <i>You want to think that 35 at bats is enough of a sample size >>
It's 50 At Bats. It's not 35. In the other thread you said 30. At least be consistent with your lies before trying to deceive everyone.
<< <i>He has not performed for the Yankees in the postseason >>
That's just it which makes it even more unthinkable because he has so much better a line up with the Yankees to protect him yet he's 4 for his last 50. Some players can't handle New York when it comes time for the big show, and so far Arod is one of them
In 2004, for the NY YANKEES, he went 16-50, batting .320...in NEW YORK, for the YANKEES.
Since then, he has had EXACTLY 35 at bats, and has struggled mightily.
To say he can't perform in NY in the playoffs is a blatant LIE as the FACTS are there to prove he has succeeded in NY. To say he can't hit in the postseason in NY is a LIE.
You guys hate Arod so much you'll probably boo the next time he hits a postseason home run!
Obviously the guy can perform in NEW YORK in OCTOBER, as he has done it in the past. Because simple-minded fools like you 'fans' want to claim otherwise doesn't make it so.
He is 4 for his last 50. He succumbed to the pressure. It's magnified because he's the best regular season hitter in the game and the highest paid player to boot.
Don't worry Ax you can keep your argument intact forever. If he continues to suck in the postseason in NY you'll continue going on about stats from 4 years ago and prior, and he rocks and rolls you'll give us the old "I told you so."
I'm rooting for the guy. I want him to come through big time, but until he does he's going to have the label.
<< <i>You know NOTHING about New York. NOTHING. It's different here more than anywhere else. People crack under the strain. I've seen it my entire life. I know, you think that's arrogant and so forth, but it's true.
He is 4 for his last 50. He succumbed to the pressure. It's magnified because he's the best regular season hitter in the game and the highest paid player to boot. >>
Then tell me, oh mighty new yorker, how do you explain his batting over .300 in his first postseason under that supposedly MASSIVE pressure that there is NOPLACE ELSE IN THE WORLD?!?!?
<< <i>Don't worry Ax you can keep your argument intact forever. If he continues to suck in the postseason in NY you'll continue going on about stats from 4 years ago and prior, and he rocks and rolls you'll give us the old "I told you so."
I'm rooting for the guy. I want him to come through big time, but until he does he's going to have the label. >>
You aren't rooting for the guy. If you were, you wouldn't be taking 50 at bats out of context and painting him a choker. You'd be looking at the ENTIRE picture, not just the parts that fit your moronic and self-defeating agenda.
<< <i>Then tell me, oh mighty new yorker, how do you explain his batting over .300 in his first postseason under that supposedly MASSIVE pressure that there is NOPLACE ELSE IN THE WORLD?!?!? >>
I don't honestly know for sure, but I believe that the 4 game sweep by Boston cracked him. The magnitude of such a collapse changed him. Now he could break out of it at any time, but until he does...
<< <i>You aren't rooting for the guy. If you were, you wouldn't be taking 50 at bats out of context and painting him a choker. >>
I root for him every night. With a man on in the 9th inning Friday Alex was having a good at bat, and I was on the edge of my chair thinking this is is. He failed again. I never called him a choker. I brought the whole thing up because you were ragging on Jeter. The man has 4 World Series rings. He's got the postseason rep.
<< <i> I brought the whole thing up because you were ragging on Jeter. The man has 4 World Series rings. He's got the postseason rep. >>
And yet Jeter's career postseason numbers are .311/.380/.473.
His career regular season numbers are .317/.388/.462.
For all intents and purposes, I'd consider this statistically identical. In other words, Jeter performs no better in the postseason than in the regular season. Yet get a streak or two of hitting in the clutch and no matter how many other bad performances you have -- he was .200/.333/.233 in the 2004 ALCS, for example, and a miserable .148/.179/.259 in the 2001 WS, both seven game series where one or two more big hits may have changed the outcome -- he'll always be "Mister Clutch" to some.
Granted, Jeter performing "inline" is better than what you'll get from most shortstops. But it's not like he becomes a statistical Superman in October.
<< <i>Roger, Roger, Roger, Roger >>
He was worth the money, wouldn't you say?
Stay tuned to see if my prediction is correct.
Phil Hughes saved our bacon, Damon huge homer, and the Yankee offense is in gear again.
<< <i>Arod is 2-4 tonight...that damn choker!!! >>
That was encouraging, but it would be nice if he could knock in some RBI's. He has 0 RBI's in his last 54 post season at bats.
<< <i>
<< <i>Arod is 2-4 tonight...that damn choker!!! >>
That was encouraging, but it would be nice if he could knock in some RBI's. He has 0 RBI's in his last 54 post season at bats. >>
hahaha
never enough is it? And don't you know RBIs are more a function of a team than an individual? I would think someone who calls them such an astute fan like you do would understand that!
Good lord.
Besides nothing like a good ol Sox Yanks ALCS.
Back to the topic at hand "2007 NY YANKEES run at the WORLD SERIES
Nice game last night, finally a breath of relief. Jeter and A-Rod (and everyone up else up until last night) are killing us right now, but a new day brings a new game, and anything can happen. I really hope Joe doesn't run Wang out there tonight, with the way Mussina sacked up the last few weeks of the season, i'd like to see him go (with a really short lease just in case).
Philip Hughes was the man last night, and Joba showed the TRUE Joba, not the bug infested fake Joba we saw in Cleveland
Should be interesting, I'm looking for a big night from Jorge (he's due). Lets go Yankees
LOL at Yankees fans making excuses about BUGS. I thought the Yankee Way was no excuses.
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>
<< <i>Arod is 2-4 tonight...that damn choker!!! >>
That was encouraging, but it would be nice if he could knock in some RBI's. He has 0 RBI's in his last 54 post season at bats. >>
Jeter is 1 for 12 in the series and struggles throwing the ball to 1st. He must be a choker! Without A-Rod the Yanks finish 20 out and you're watching the Jets.
<< <i>Moose is going to get bombed tonight. >>
Isn't Wang pitching tonight?
If Moose pitches again, I believe it would be in game 5 in Cleveland, presumably against Sabathia.
<< <i>If Moose pitches again, I believe it would be in game 5 in Cleveland, presumably against Sabathia. >>
I would think that would be Pettitte's start.
<< <i>
<< <i>If Moose pitches again, I believe it would be in game 5 in Cleveland, presumably against Sabathia. >>
I would think that would be Pettitte's start. >>
Yes, but Moose would be available, as would probably everyone except Wang.
<< <i>hopefully the leash on wang will be as short or shorter as Clemens' was, can't let this one get away early. >>
Yeah, it was.
But the problem is that not the Yankees have little long relief remaining even if they used Moose here. I suppose Hughes might be available for a couple innings in Game 5 if it gets there...and who knows? Would they get desperate enough to use Pettitte? Doubt it, but with backs to the wall, you never know (though that would seem to leave no one to start Game 5 unless they hoped to get five innings out of Villone in an emergency start). With the Bombers down 6-1, they can't let too many more come across even with their potent offense. I know they can easily score five runs and then some...but they need to be able to stop Cleveland's bats, too.
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
GO
yANK
EES!!!!!
<< <i>Who is gonna write the eulogy tomorrow.... when this thread DIES? >>
Shhhhhhhh!!!!!