they only made one SB with that Defense. then had to wait 20 years to go to another with a good def that couldnt hold up the next year again.
but lets face it most teams that make/win the SB claim that they should have at least 3 players to go into the HOF, why...well it takes good players to win that many games.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Well, it is possible to have a great TEAM without having a bunch of HOF caliber individual players. I definitely think Dent is deserving and should have gone in before Fred Dean, but after that I really don't see any other HOF caliber players from the '85 team. Covert had a few good years, but OL you need to be dominant for a long period.
Look at all the Super Bowl Champions from the past and how many HOFers (so far) played for those teams:
68 Jets and 70 Colts are all out of possible candidates. The great 49ers dynasty of the 80s, obviously Jerry Rice will add to those totals, maybe a Charles Haley, but that's it for them. Cowboys from 92-93 will add Emmitt, maybe a Haley..No other stong candidates there either...90 Giants? 1 HOF, no strong candidates left...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I guess I am sitting pretty good on the new class, I have all of them in PSA 9.
The real question is do I sell the Emitt thomas PSA 9 and drop down to a PSA 8, or stay there. What do you guys think a PSA 9 would go for? >>
If you sell within the next 2 weeks, probably $400-$600...Down the road, I think the card will play out as a $100-$200 card...I base this on the price of PSA 8's that were selling for $30-40ish in the weeks leading up, but sold at $150 ending yesterday...If you are going to sell NOW IS THE TIME!lol
I would be interested in a buy/trade for it. I could include the PSA 8 back to you, plus cash or other cards you might need. PM me if you want to discuss.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Well, it is possible to have a great TEAM without having a bunch of HOF caliber individual players. I definitely think Dent is deserving and should have gone in before Fred Dean, but after that I really don't see any other HOF caliber players from the '85 team. Covert had a few good years, but OL you need to be dominant for a long period. >>
I agree about Covert lacking the longevity, and Dent obviously should get in, but I'd also suggest that Jay Hilgenberg should as well, 7 straight All-Pro selections during the Bears' long stretch of Division Championships. Gary Fencik has some worthiness as well, with six All-Pro selctions and his role on that defense over the years. He was every bit as much a leader as Singletary in making it all work. And although Ditka should never be inducted as a Head Coach, is there any precedent for Coordinators getting a nod? If so, Buddy's scheme could deserve some consideration.
<< <i>Well, it is possible to have a great TEAM without having a bunch of HOF caliber individual players. I definitely think Dent is deserving and should have gone in before Fred Dean, but after that I really don't see any other HOF caliber players from the '85 team. Covert had a few good years, but OL you need to be dominant for a long period. >>
I agree about Covert lacking the longevity, and Dent obviously should get in, but I'd also suggest that Jay Hilgenberg should as well, 7 straight All-Pro selections during the Bears' long stretch of Division Championships. Gary Fencik has some worthiness as well, with six All-Pro selctions and his role on that defense over the years. He was every bit as much a leader as Singletary in making it all work. And although Ditka should never be inducted as a Head Coach, is there any precedent for Coordinators getting a nod? If so, Buddy's scheme could deserve some consideration. >>
Ditka is already in...
Also, with your All-Pro selections, its easy to inflate those numbers. The only ones that really count in the eyes of the HOF committee are FIRST TEAM AP All-Pro. Hilgenberg and Fencik have no where near 7 and 6 respectively. 2nd team selections are meaningless, and are really a made up team/stat that doesn't exist. For example, Tom Brady was the FIRST TEAM AP All-Pro QB this year with 49 1/2 out of 50 possible votes. Favre was the only other QB with any votes and he got all of 1/2 of a vote. So does he get credit as the 2nd team QB? And lumping them with first team we will call Favre a 2008 All-Pro equal to Brady? That's just not how it works. Pro-football-reference.com is notorious for lumping them all as one, so don't even bother reading their All-Pro selection numbers. The site admin is aware of it, and plans on correcting it at some point.
For Hilgenberg, he has 7 Pro Bowls and was a 2-time 1st team all-pro. As a Center, I don't see that being enough. Not bad, he has been a HOF nominee and was a very good player. Fencik, as a Safety with exactly 2 Pro Bowls doesn't even make the 100+ player nomination list. He was a good player, but there are 50 Safeties NOT in the HOF who I would put in front of him...
Realistically the Bears will end up with 4 HOF players, and that's a fair assessment IMO. If they had more, the would/could have been dominant for longer than just a year or 2...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>well the 96 packers will end up with 2 maybe 3. favre still isnt done yet, that we know of at least. bulter still has an outside shot. >>
Yep, 3 at best..I think that really speaks to how important Favre and White really were to that team. I still don't understand why Butler doesn;t get any play..I know Safety is a tough position to get into the HOF, but he was one of if not the best blitzing safety since Larry Wilson. He could really disrupt a game plan.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>well the 96 packers will end up with 2 maybe 3. favre still isnt done yet, that we know of at least. bulter still has an outside shot. >>
Yep, 3 at best..I think that really speaks to how important Favre and White really were to that team. I still don't understand why Butler doesn;t get any play..I know Safety is a tough position to get into the HOF, but he was one of if not the best blitzing safety since Larry Wilson. He could really disrupt a game plan.
Jason >>
Jason,
I agree. Not only that but he also really changed the face of the safety position. Now you have to cover, have hands, blitz and stop the run to be considered a great one.
But there is also a chance that Holmgren gets in, but he isnt a player so that really doesnt count for this board.
Jay
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
I just thought I'd point out that maybe LT has been vindicated for his "team has no class, they get it from their head coach" statement after last year's playoff loss to the Pats. Leaving the field knowing there is 1 second on the clock and a play must be run really showed a lack of class IMO.
If anyone is looking for the happiest man on the planet, he's right here in Branchburg, NJ. GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!!!!
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>So, does last nights win for the giants send Strahan to the HOF? >>
IMO, he went from being a 75% lock to a 95% lock. The performance of the Giants D-line was dominant, and was against one of, if not the, best O-lines in the business.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>So, does last nights win for the giants send Strahan to the HOF? >>
I had the same thought, and I definitely think so.
And I may be a little biased, but David Tyree's acrobatic catch against his helmet with Rodney Harrison draped all over him is the best Super Bowl catch ever IMO. Move over Lynn Swann!
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>So, does last nights win for the giants send Strahan to the HOF? >>
I had the same thought, and I definitely think so.
And I may be a little biased, but David Tyree's acrobatic catch against his helmet with Rodney Harrison draped all over him is the best Super Bowl catch ever IMO. Move over Lynn Swann! >>
Well, I wouldn't go THAT far...lol...I'd easily put it in the top 5, and probably would end up in the top 3.
Eli's scramble to make that play would probably rate very high on that scale as well.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
It was definalty some pretty amazing football to say the least. Andy, Now you know how I felt this time last year..LOL....
Here comes the worst time of the year.....No good, competitive football for 7 months.....
We've got the Pro Bowl...Big Whoop... The Combine...Big Whoop The Draft.... Not too bad...at least the format and time to pick changed this year Training Camp ..Big Whoop Pre-Season ....Big Whoop.....
J.P. - When you factor in the circumstances and the fact that Tyree had a great defender draped all over him, I really can not think of a better catch. Swann's Super Bowl grabs were amazing, but none came on the last drive of the game when it was do or die. Clutch does not even begin to describe that play, beginning with Eli's completely improbable escape from the rush.
I'm officially in the market for a David Tyree jersey.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>J.P. - When you factor in the circumstances and the fact that Tyree had a great defender draped all over him, I really can not think of a better catch. Swann's Super Bowl grabs were amazing, but none came on the last drive of the game when it was do or die. Clutch does not even begin to describe that play, beginning with Eli's completely improbable escape from the rush.
I'm officially in the market for a David Tyree jersey. >>
Super Bowl X..Swann 64 YD TD from Bradshaw in the 4th QTR to go up 21-10 and seal the win.
Super Bowl XIV...Stallworth 73 yd TD over the shoulder catch in the 4th QTR to go ahead of the Rams 24-19..
Super Bowl XXIII..John Taylor 10 yd TD slant from Montana with :34 seconds left...
Super Bowl XXXIV...Isaac Bruce 73 yd TD down the sideline from Warner to break the 16-16 tie and win the game in the 4th QTR...
All of these, IMO, would be considered more "clutch" and more game changing than Tyree's catch. Simply because they all went for the TD, and all were defining moments. Tyree's was more improbable, simple because he's not even a starter and was basically just standing in the middle of the field when Eli found him.
And to call Rodney Harrison a GREAT pass defender..Umm, a tad overstated...lol
But, I do agree, great catch on 3rd down..Kept the drive moving, but I think what Eli did on the play was more spectacular. i don;t know how he got away and got that pass off...Amazing...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Well, it is possible to have a great TEAM without having a bunch of HOF caliber individual players. I definitely think Dent is deserving and should have gone in before Fred Dean, but after that I really don't see any other HOF caliber players from the '85 team. Covert had a few good years, but OL you need to be dominant for a long period.
Look at all the Super Bowl Champions from the past and how many HOFers (so far) played for those teams:
68 Jets and 70 Colts are all out of possible candidates. The great 49ers dynasty of the 80s, obviously Jerry Rice will add to those totals, maybe a Charles Haley, but that's it for them. Cowboys from 92-93 will add Emmitt, maybe a Haley..No other stong candidates there either...90 Giants? 1 HOF, no strong candidates left...
Jason >>
jason,
this analysis makes it even harder to swallow that the packers of the 60's were ranked 4th out of 5 for all time team of the decade. Steelers won, 49ers in second, boys in third. people really dont know nfl history other than SB wins. Packers were 96-37-5 in the 60's a winning percentage of 0.714. Won 5 NFL championships (and first two superbowls) lost another championship in a span of 8 years. 1960 to 1967 seasons. Some argue that the 1962 Packers were the best team of all time, which are always hard to argue.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>Come on Jason,......Just let Andy have his day in the sun.....
It was the greatest catch I have ever seen in the SB....
Dave >>
Ok, I'll compromise...It was the greatest catch in THIS Super Bowl...lol
Andy is usually pretty level headed when it comes to debating player merits (well except for Harold Jackson), so I want to make sure he doesn't turn into Joey "Sunshine" Theisman and start making greatest ever proclaimations for every player/play...We have to be the support group and keep things grounded in reality...
The funniest part of the Giants winning the Championship is that they did it with out Tiki and Shockey...BOO YAA to both of those guys!
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Anyone ranking the 60's Packers 4th on the list of greatest dynasties is suffering from the same problem that those who call Tom Brady the greatest ever or the patriots the greatest ever or last year it was Manning the greatest ever...It's called out of sight, out of mind. Anyone who has watched or seen how those Packers dominated games for such a long period would not say that in their right mind.
Had the Patriots won another Super Bowl, I probably would have moved them up one notch, but no higher than that.
And the distance between the 70's Steelers and the 60's Packers isn't much. I rank the Steelers higher because their defense was so SHUT DOWN. They had a great running game and a great passing game, just a complete team top to bottom.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
FYI, I have submitted the new additions to Cosetta and Gayle. There is no debate for these since each only has one rookie card, so no poll is needed. Hopefully will be added quickly.
Card Grade Weight 157 1972 TOPPS EMMITT THOMAS 1.5 217 1978 TOPPS FRED DEAN 1 194 1981 TOPPS ART MONK 1 143 1984 TOPPS ANDRE TIPPETT 1 380 1984 TOPPS DARRELL GREEN 1 207 1987 TOPPS GARY ZIMMERMAN 1
The Monk, Green and Zimmerman will all be deleted from the Future HOF- Modern set as well.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Wow, a POP 5 HOF'er goes to a guy who is a die-hard Seahawks/Largent/HOF fan and he only gets two "kudos"...?
Congrats Joe. I think it's fantastic you landed that card! I know you've been looking and trying for that since you found graded cards. Awesome to see you finally got it.
Weird to see a Largent that doesn't have the blue print defect on his nostril too!
<< <i>So, does last nights win for the giants send Strahan to the HOF? >>
IMO, he went from being a 75% lock to a 95% lock. The performance of the Giants D-line was dominant, and was against one of, if not the, best O-lines in the business.
Jason >>
Strahan was making the NE Right Tackly look Pop-Warner. He was absolutely man-handling him. I have to admit, I enjoyed the ride of watching the Pats this year. I did enjoy seeing them lose, especially after they went for it on 4th and 13. I always thought that was lame when they were doing that earlier in the year, especially when they had teams down by 20+ in the 4th quarter. (Miami comes to mind, as does the Washington game)
I will say though, that I never want to hear Mercury Morris ever again, and I was very hopeful that the Pats going 19-0 would shut him up for good. But alas, I wake up this morning to him flapping his lips again "We're the first team, we're the best team, nobody can do what we did. Sure they were 18-0 but they finished 18-1 we finished perfect at 17-0" blah blah blah STFU.
End of my tirade.
It was very enjoyable game to watch. Oh and Tyree's catch on his helmet was amazing!
My submissions I sent in on 31 Jan got logged by PSA today. Should start seeing poppage this week...All are reviews in the new half point system.
First one should be the Red Grange 8 that went in at the $60 level. Estimated 2 business days should definitely be complete this week...
Joe, congrats on the Largent 10..My work blocks photobucket scans so had to wait to get home to see it. I assume that is the new one that popped in the last couple of weeks. Was it rockbottomsports that had it? They did own the newly graded 1993 SP Bettis, they have since listed on ebay.
One day I'll have the capitol to do what they do. I subscribe to their theory as well (best place to find PSA 10's are in in PSA 9 holders), but don't quite do it on their level.
Nice card though.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> Was it rockbottomsports that had it? They did own the newly graded 1993 SP Bettis, they have since listed on ebay.
Jason >>
And for such a reasonable price! >>
Yeah...Its a steal...lol
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that i will get 15 bumps from my 60 card review submissions.
I'm basing this off the new order status view where you can review your past subs. It shows all of the cards that were logged yesterday. All were reviews, so it lists them by line # and by cert #. At that bottom is says, for example,
Total Items: 35 Date Received: 2/4/2008 Date Shipped: N/A Order Status: OK. 9 items are still being processed.
On this one 9 cards still being processed. None of those 9 show up on the list of logged cards. Based on the cards that are missing from these lists, I think they are the ones that are going to bump either the .5 or full grade. If I'm right, here are my 15 cards getting bumped:
Will be interesting to see if I am right...Of course I will be ELATED if this is the case...I don't know of any other reason these cards would still be "processing". These were all very high on my list of STRONG possible bumps.
I am STOKED right now to find out if this is true..lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Sounds like in the early stages of the .5 bump maybe the head grader is getting a lot of these? Perhaps those were the 9 that they felt had the best shot. Sure would be sweet if those 9 all bumped but even if a couple bump, you're still in good shape.
<< <i>Sounds like in the early stages of the .5 bump maybe the head grader is getting a lot of these? Perhaps those were the 9 that they felt had the best shot. Sure would be sweet if those 9 all bumped but even if a couple bump, you're still in good shape. >>
There are actually 15 total pulled from my multiple subs (different grading services based on value)...
I thought that might be a possibility as well, that they have pulled the cards deemed worthy of further review, but not necessarily bumped yet...I can;t wait to find out...Going in, I hoped for anything between 6-12 bumps and I would consider it a success.
The 60 I sent in are the upper crust, visually, of my collection. So 15 (25%) going up a half grade, to me, isn't out of the question. I've owned multiples of many of these cards and always keep the highest end cards that I can.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I've got my "stack" of potential upgrades but then they pulled the $13 /5 day special so I'm holding off. I might to do the <$100 cards on a bulk sub at $8 each as most are in 8 holders but are 3-5x SMR in a 9 so a .5 bump would be worth the $8 or whatever it is.
Good Luck. I'm excited for you, I want to see how this half-grade/full-grade bump system works out now. I'm curious to see if you get any full grade bumps. I presume you just put a min-grade of .5 higher on all these?
Just a quick shout out to all those who ordered Monks and Greens from me on Sunday. They all were MAILED TODAY SO LOOK FOR THEM BY THE OR BEFORE THE WEEKEND
<< <i>I've got my "stack" of potential upgrades but then they pulled the $13 /5 day special so I'm holding off. I might to do the <$100 cards on a bulk sub at $8 each as most are in 8 holders but are 3-5x SMR in a 9 so a .5 bump would be worth the $8 or whatever it is.
Good Luck. I'm excited for you, I want to see how this half-grade/full-grade bump system works out now. I'm curious to see if you get any full grade bumps. I presume you just put a min-grade of .5 higher on all these? >>
At least one is a full grade bump, PSA 9 1972 Joiner. Of course with no 9.5, I was looking for the 10 to begin with.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
On the sub with the 9 cards still left for review, does it show you the grades or what is happening with the other cards. I'm wondering if we are actually going to get to see when part of a sub is complete before everything is done.
On the sub with the 9 cards still left for review, does it show you the grades or what is happening with the other cards. I'm wondering if we are actually going to get to see when part of a sub is complete before everything is done.
Bill >>
Bill, yes it looks like this:
Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type Country 2 1 30944952 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1950 BOWMAN 9 TONY CANADEO Card US 5 1 06559362 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1950 BOWMAN 52 ELROY HIRSCH Card US 7 1 11957716 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1951 BOWMAN 21 ARNIE WEINMEISTER Card US
As you can see, lines 1, 3, 4, and 6 are missing and included in the count of items are still being processed. They are either going to bump, or at a minimum were pulled for final review for the bump.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
If anyone wants a PSA 9 Tippett for $55 delivered shoot me a PM.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
It took Fred Dean's selection into the pro football Hall of Fame for me to understand baseball purists' obsession with Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, performance-enhancing drugs and the sanctity of numbers.
While I still don't agree with the McCarthy-like witch hunt directed at the players, I at least now comprehend the motive.
Honestly, when I learned that Dean's bust would soon be placed alongside Deacon Jones' and Reggie White's, my first thought was: What will we tell the children? My second thought was: Who is to blame and how do I make them pay?
You see, like Bonds and Clemens and all the rest, Fred Dean is not responsible for the devaluing of one of America's great institutions. He's a victim in the dereliction of duty by the men and women charged with the task of keeping the pro football Hall of Fame pure.
As best I can, I won't turn this column into an all-out attack on Dean's very good NFL career. But let's be clear about one thing: Frederick Rudolph Dean has no (freaking) business in the Hall of Fame.
The Hall isn't for very good players. And it damn sure isn't for players who spent 40 percent of their careers as third-down, pass-rush specialists. Fred Dean played pro football for 11 years, participating in 141 games. He came off the bench in 59 of those games and earned a Pro Bowl berth in just four of his 11 seasons. A 230-pound defensive end, Dean was a liability on first and second down and, therefore, spent much of his career watching from the sideline as his teammates played run defense.
He was an oversized, highly effective nickel back/corner blitzer. He was the first situational pass rusher. Put that little piece of innovation on Bill Walsh's HOF resume, just like Mike Ditka gets credit for the Refrigerator backfield and Bill Belichick deserves praise for Mike Vrabel's goal-line TD catches.
But William Perry and Vrabel don't get to make the trip to Canton because their coaches found a unique way to occasionally use them.
I'm sorry. I'm spending too much time on Fred Dean. The problem here is the Hall voters. They're the Bud Seligs of this crime against sports integrity. They lack the backbone to make a hard-line stance for what is right.
Art Monk was a two-time All-Pro and retired with 940 catches, but his career didn't add up to Hall of Fame material, Jason Whitlock says. (Stephen Dunn / Getty Images)
Cowardice is going to ruin the most special place on earth, the pro football HOF. I get it now. I understand the passion to keep the baseball HOF righteous, uncontaminated and reserved for those who really deserve it.
As a child, I dreamed about one day being enshrined at the pro football Hall of Fame. I wrote a speech, and used to read it to my mother. I remember when Dick Butkus and Johnny Unitas went in together.
Dick Butkus, Johnny Unitas and Fred Dean? What do we tell the children?
Well, tell them that the HOF has become more about the voters (a collection of longtime, respected NFL writers) than the players, and getting someone elected is more important than getting the right player selected. There's a lot of voter back-patting when a very good, marginal HOFer gets elected (Rayfield Wright, Roger Wehrli, Elvin Bethea, Joe DeLamielleure, Charlie Sanders, Art Monk and Andre Tippett).
Tell them that Harry Carson scared the (spit) out of Hall voters. Carson, a very good pro, b1tch3d and moaned his way into the 2006 Hall class and convinced a lot of former players (especially the many players who won't sniff the Hall who think they should) that Hall voters lacked the knowledge to hold such important jobs.
Carson's whining and the criticism unleashed by former players-turned-NFL Network broadcasters caused Hall voters to take the approach that it's better to reward a long-suffering, so-so candidate than put in a no-brainer such as Cris Carter.
Other than Darrell Green, the whole 2008 class is an attempt to avoid creating another Harry Carson. The thinking seemed to be: "Let's put 'em in before they start b1tching and people start talking about how we don't know what we're doing."
Someone should've had the testicular fortitude to tell Harry Carson, Fred Dean and Art Monk that they were good, but they just weren't good enough to take a seat next to Mike Singletary, Deacon Jones and Steve Largent.
To enter the Hall, your name needs to be included in the debate for top five at your position all time and/or the distance between the best at your position and you can't be so great that it denigrates the memory of a G.O.A.T.
Troy Aikman and Warren Moon are not among the five best QBs ever to play the game, but their inclusion in the Hall does not diminish John Elway or Joe Montana.
However, comparing Reggie White to Fred Dean is the equivalent of measuring Jenna Jameson against Paris Hilton. We're talking about a ho-fessional legend vs. a backyard camcorder queen. No one ever associated Carson and Butkus. Carson was Randy Gradishar. And Art Monk was rarely the best receiver on his own team. I refuse to use his name in the same sentence with Jerry Rice.
Again, I don't hold Dean, Carson and Monk responsible for backdoor-ing their way into the HOF. I'd do it myself, if I could. Just like I blame baseball owners for allowing the steroids era to happen, I fault Hall voters for not having the guts to lock the door on very good players.
Never again will you see "testicular fortitude" and "ho-fessional" used in the same article. Guaranteed!
I'm still pi$$ed CC and Randall McDaniel did not make it. An absolute travesty if you ask me. Fred Freaking Dean...That may be the very last card I buy for my HOF set.
Oh and if anyone is interested, here is the link to the article, just so you don't think I made up this gem of journalistic excellence on my own. URL Linky
I read this earlier in the week in reference to why some of the deserving Vikings aren't getting in:
Hall exposed
By John McMullen The Phanatic Magazine
It's pretty obvious that players like Cris Carter and Derrick Thomas are far more worthy of a spot in Canton than say Art Monk and Andre Tippett.
That's why I could care less about the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
It's not about who deserves to go in -- it's all about ego and good old-fashioned reverence among the Hall's 44-person Board of Selectors... Not for the players mind you -- the selectors.
No city in pro football proves that more than Minneapolis.
Let's look at Carter and Monk. The Redskins wideout finished his career with 940 receptions for 12,721 yards and 68 touchdowns. Carter had 1,101 catches for 13,899 yards and 130 TDs. No, Carter didn't collect any SuperBowl rings -- the only argument Redskins supporters can cling too -- but he found the end zone 62 more times than Monk.
So why is Monk in the Hall now and Carter isn't?
Well you have to understand the selection process first. The Board making these decisions consists of one media representative from each pro football city with two from New York. A 33rd member is a representative of the Pro Football Writers of America (an organization I belong too) and there are 11 at-large delegates.
The selectors then meet with the media representatives introducing and making the case for players from the team they cover. In Washington that means David Elfin, the great Washington Times writer and the former PFWA President. For Minneapolis and people like Carter and Randall McDaniel -- it means their fate is in the hands of a doddering old-fool by the name of Sid Hartman.
Apologists for the other 42 voters talk about "taking care" of previously forgotten guys like Monk, Tippett, Fred Dean and Gary Zimmerman before the coming crush of big-name Hall-eligible players arrives.
But, here's the bottom line. Monk wasn't elected to the Hall of Fame until this year because Elfin didn't put his stamp of approval on him until now. It's not the player who is up for enshrinement, it's the media representative's reputation. If Elfin was touting Carter and Hartman was championing Monk, the results would be reversed.
Don't think so? Let's look at McDaniel and Zimmerman. They actually played next to each other in Minnesota for five years (1988 to 1992.) In those five seasons, McDaniel was an All-Pro for four years and made four Pro Bowls. The only year missing from his resume was 1988, his rookie season. Zimmerman-- a worthy Hall of Famer by the way -- made two Pro Bowls and was named All-Pro once.
McDaniel went on to start 12 consecutive Pro Bowls in his career -- an NFL record -- and is one of the top two or three guards ever to play the game. The two players remain great friends to this day and Zimmerman would be the first to admit McDaniel was the better player.
So why did Zimmerman get the call before McDaniel? Simply put, Jeff Legwold of the Rocky Mountain News is well-liked. Hartman is not.
The 87-year-old Hartman had been Minnesota's media representative in the Hall selection process forever and his lack of respect among the other voters has been evident for a long time. Fran Tarkenton retired after the 1978 season as the NFL's all-time leader in completions, passing yardage and touchdowns. He led the Vikings to three SuperBowls but had to wait three years before being enshrined. Dan Marino, who ended his career with the same records and just one Super Bowl appearance, was a slam-dunk, first-year selection.
Legendary players like Carl Eller, Ron Yary and Paul Krause, the all-time interception leader, had to wait over a decade for induction. Jim Marshall, the Lou Gehrig of the NFL, and Mick Tinglehoff, one of the game's great centers are still not in.
Their absences and the snubs of Carter and McDaniel not only expose the disrespect for Hartman, it also magnifies just how little the rest of the voters know about their league as a whole.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Comments
but lets face it most teams that make/win the SB claim that they should have at least 3 players to go into the HOF, why...well it takes good players to win that many games.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Look at all the Super Bowl Champions from the past and how many HOFers (so far) played for those teams:
9- 66 Packers, 74 Steelers, 75 Steelers, 78 Steelers, 79 Steelers
8- 71 Cowboys
7- 67 Packers
6- 69 Chiefs, 72 Dolphins, 73 Dolphins, 76 Raiders
5- 77 Cowboys, 83 Raiders
4- NONE
3- 70 Colts, 80 Raiders, 81 49ers, 84 49ers, 85 Bears, 88 49ers, 89 49ers
2- 68 Jets, 82 Redskins, 86 Giants, 87 Redskins, 92 Cowboys, 93 Cowboys, 95 Cowboys, 97 Broncos
1- 90 Giants, 91 Redskins, 94 49ers, 96 Packers, 98 Broncos
68 Jets and 70 Colts are all out of possible candidates. The great 49ers dynasty of the 80s, obviously Jerry Rice will add to those totals, maybe a Charles Haley, but that's it for them. Cowboys from 92-93 will add Emmitt, maybe a Haley..No other stong candidates there either...90 Giants? 1 HOF, no strong candidates left...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
The real question is do I sell the Emitt thomas PSA 9 and drop down to a PSA 8, or stay there. What do you guys think a PSA 9 would go for?
<< <i>I guess I am sitting pretty good on the new class, I have all of them in PSA 9.
The real question is do I sell the Emitt thomas PSA 9 and drop down to a PSA 8, or stay there. What do you guys think a PSA 9 would go for? >>
If you sell within the next 2 weeks, probably $400-$600...Down the road, I think the card will play out as a $100-$200 card...I base this on the price of PSA 8's that were selling for $30-40ish in the weeks leading up, but sold at $150 ending yesterday...If you are going to sell NOW IS THE TIME!lol
I would be interested in a buy/trade for it. I could include the PSA 8 back to you, plus cash or other cards you might need. PM me if you want to discuss.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Well, it is possible to have a great TEAM without having a bunch of HOF caliber individual players. I definitely think Dent is deserving and should have gone in before Fred Dean, but after that I really don't see any other HOF caliber players from the '85 team. Covert had a few good years, but OL you need to be dominant for a long period.
>>
I agree about Covert lacking the longevity, and Dent obviously should get in, but I'd also suggest that Jay Hilgenberg should as well, 7 straight All-Pro selections during the Bears' long stretch of Division Championships. Gary Fencik has some worthiness as well, with six All-Pro selctions and his role on that defense over the years. He was every bit as much a leader as Singletary in making it all work. And although Ditka should never be inducted as a Head Coach, is there any precedent for Coordinators getting a nod? If so, Buddy's scheme could deserve some consideration.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, it is possible to have a great TEAM without having a bunch of HOF caliber individual players. I definitely think Dent is deserving and should have gone in before Fred Dean, but after that I really don't see any other HOF caliber players from the '85 team. Covert had a few good years, but OL you need to be dominant for a long period.
>>
I agree about Covert lacking the longevity, and Dent obviously should get in, but I'd also suggest that Jay Hilgenberg should as well, 7 straight All-Pro selections during the Bears' long stretch of Division Championships. Gary Fencik has some worthiness as well, with six All-Pro selctions and his role on that defense over the years. He was every bit as much a leader as Singletary in making it all work. And although Ditka should never be inducted as a Head Coach, is there any precedent for Coordinators getting a nod? If so, Buddy's scheme could deserve some consideration. >>
Ditka is already in...
Also, with your All-Pro selections, its easy to inflate those numbers. The only ones that really count in the eyes of the HOF committee are FIRST TEAM AP All-Pro. Hilgenberg and Fencik have no where near 7 and 6 respectively. 2nd team selections are meaningless, and are really a made up team/stat that doesn't exist. For example, Tom Brady was the FIRST TEAM AP All-Pro QB this year with 49 1/2 out of 50 possible votes. Favre was the only other QB with any votes and he got all of 1/2 of a vote. So does he get credit as the 2nd team QB? And lumping them with first team we will call Favre a 2008 All-Pro equal to Brady? That's just not how it works. Pro-football-reference.com is notorious for lumping them all as one, so don't even bother reading their All-Pro selection numbers. The site admin is aware of it, and plans on correcting it at some point.
For Hilgenberg, he has 7 Pro Bowls and was a 2-time 1st team all-pro. As a Center, I don't see that being enough. Not bad, he has been a HOF nominee and was a very good player. Fencik, as a Safety with exactly 2 Pro Bowls doesn't even make the 100+ player nomination list. He was a good player, but there are 50 Safeties NOT in the HOF who I would put in front of him...
Realistically the Bears will end up with 4 HOF players, and that's a fair assessment IMO. If they had more, the would/could have been dominant for longer than just a year or 2...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>well the 96 packers will end up with 2 maybe 3. favre still isnt done yet, that we know of at least. bulter still has an outside shot. >>
Yep, 3 at best..I think that really speaks to how important Favre and White really were to that team. I still don't understand why Butler doesn;t get any play..I know Safety is a tough position to get into the HOF, but he was one of if not the best blitzing safety since Larry Wilson. He could really disrupt a game plan.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
<< <i>
<< <i>well the 96 packers will end up with 2 maybe 3. favre still isnt done yet, that we know of at least. bulter still has an outside shot. >>
Yep, 3 at best..I think that really speaks to how important Favre and White really were to that team. I still don't understand why Butler doesn;t get any play..I know Safety is a tough position to get into the HOF, but he was one of if not the best blitzing safety since Larry Wilson. He could really disrupt a game plan.
Jason >>
Jason,
I agree. Not only that but he also really changed the face of the safety position. Now you have to cover, have hands, blitz and stop the run to be considered a great one.
But there is also a chance that Holmgren gets in, but he isnt a player so that really doesnt count for this board.
Jay
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Congrats, Thats Awesome !!!!!
Gabbs
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>So, does last nights win for the giants send Strahan to the HOF? >>
IMO, he went from being a 75% lock to a 95% lock. The performance of the Giants D-line was dominant, and was against one of, if not the, best O-lines in the business.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>So, does last nights win for the giants send Strahan to the HOF? >>
I had the same thought, and I definitely think so.
And I may be a little biased, but David Tyree's acrobatic catch against his helmet with Rodney Harrison draped all over him is the best Super Bowl catch ever IMO. Move over Lynn Swann!
<< <i>
<< <i>So, does last nights win for the giants send Strahan to the HOF? >>
I had the same thought, and I definitely think so.
And I may be a little biased, but David Tyree's acrobatic catch against his helmet with Rodney Harrison draped all over him is the best Super Bowl catch ever IMO. Move over Lynn Swann! >>
Well, I wouldn't go THAT far...lol...I'd easily put it in the top 5, and probably would end up in the top 3.
Eli's scramble to make that play would probably rate very high on that scale as well.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Here comes the worst time of the year.....No good, competitive football for 7 months.....
We've got the Pro Bowl...Big Whoop...
The Combine...Big Whoop
The Draft.... Not too bad...at least the format and time to pick changed this year
Training Camp ..Big Whoop
Pre-Season ....Big Whoop.....
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
I'm officially in the market for a David Tyree jersey.
<< <i>J.P. - When you factor in the circumstances and the fact that Tyree had a great defender draped all over him, I really can not think of a better catch. Swann's Super Bowl grabs were amazing, but none came on the last drive of the game when it was do or die. Clutch does not even begin to describe that play, beginning with Eli's completely improbable escape from the rush.
I'm officially in the market for a David Tyree jersey. >>
Super Bowl X..Swann 64 YD TD from Bradshaw in the 4th QTR to go up 21-10 and seal the win.
Super Bowl XIV...Stallworth 73 yd TD over the shoulder catch in the 4th QTR to go ahead of the Rams 24-19..
Super Bowl XXIII..John Taylor 10 yd TD slant from Montana with :34 seconds left...
Super Bowl XXXIV...Isaac Bruce 73 yd TD down the sideline from Warner to break the 16-16 tie and win the game in the 4th QTR...
All of these, IMO, would be considered more "clutch" and more game changing than Tyree's catch. Simply because they all went for the TD, and all were defining moments. Tyree's was more improbable, simple because he's not even a starter and was basically just standing in the middle of the field when Eli found him.
And to call Rodney Harrison a GREAT pass defender..Umm, a tad overstated...lol
But, I do agree, great catch on 3rd down..Kept the drive moving, but I think what Eli did on the play was more spectacular. i don;t know how he got away and got that pass off...Amazing...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
It was the greatest catch I have ever seen in the SB....
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Well, it is possible to have a great TEAM without having a bunch of HOF caliber individual players. I definitely think Dent is deserving and should have gone in before Fred Dean, but after that I really don't see any other HOF caliber players from the '85 team. Covert had a few good years, but OL you need to be dominant for a long period.
Look at all the Super Bowl Champions from the past and how many HOFers (so far) played for those teams:
9- 66 Packers, 74 Steelers, 75 Steelers, 78 Steelers, 79 Steelers
8- 71 Cowboys
7- 67 Packers
6- 69 Chiefs, 72 Dolphins, 73 Dolphins, 76 Raiders
5- 77 Cowboys, 83 Raiders
4- NONE
3- 70 Colts, 80 Raiders, 81 49ers, 84 49ers, 85 Bears, 88 49ers, 89 49ers
2- 68 Jets, 82 Redskins, 86 Giants, 87 Redskins, 92 Cowboys, 93 Cowboys, 95 Cowboys, 97 Broncos
1- 90 Giants, 91 Redskins, 94 49ers, 96 Packers, 98 Broncos
68 Jets and 70 Colts are all out of possible candidates. The great 49ers dynasty of the 80s, obviously Jerry Rice will add to those totals, maybe a Charles Haley, but that's it for them. Cowboys from 92-93 will add Emmitt, maybe a Haley..No other stong candidates there either...90 Giants? 1 HOF, no strong candidates left...
Jason >>
jason,
this analysis makes it even harder to swallow that the packers of the 60's were ranked 4th out of 5 for all time team of the decade. Steelers won, 49ers in second, boys in third. people really dont know nfl history other than SB wins. Packers were 96-37-5 in the 60's a winning percentage of 0.714. Won 5 NFL championships (and first two superbowls) lost another championship in a span of 8 years. 1960 to 1967 seasons. Some argue that the 1962 Packers were the best team of all time, which are always hard to argue.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>Come on Jason,......Just let Andy have his day in the sun.....
It was the greatest catch I have ever seen in the SB....
Dave >>
Ok, I'll compromise...It was the greatest catch in THIS Super Bowl...lol
Andy is usually pretty level headed when it comes to debating player merits (well except for Harold Jackson), so I want to make sure he doesn't turn into Joey "Sunshine" Theisman and start making greatest ever proclaimations for every player/play...We have to be the support group and keep things grounded in reality...
The funniest part of the Giants winning the Championship is that they did it with out Tiki and Shockey...BOO YAA to both of those guys!
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
IMO:
1-70s Steelers
2-60s Packers
3-50s Browns
4-80s 49ers
5-90s Cowboys
6-00s Patriots
7-40s Bears
8-30s Giants
Had the Patriots won another Super Bowl, I probably would have moved them up one notch, but no higher than that.
And the distance between the 70's Steelers and the 60's Packers isn't much. I rank the Steelers higher because their defense was so SHUT DOWN. They had a great running game and a great passing game, just a complete team top to bottom.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Card Grade Weight
157 1972 TOPPS EMMITT THOMAS 1.5
217 1978 TOPPS FRED DEAN 1
194 1981 TOPPS ART MONK 1
143 1984 TOPPS ANDRE TIPPETT 1
380 1984 TOPPS DARRELL GREEN 1
207 1987 TOPPS GARY ZIMMERMAN 1
The Monk, Green and Zimmerman will all be deleted from the Future HOF- Modern set as well.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>White whale found!!
Wow, a POP 5 HOF'er goes to a guy who is a die-hard Seahawks/Largent/HOF fan and he only gets two "kudos"...?
Congrats Joe. I think it's fantastic you landed that card! I know you've been looking and trying for that since you found graded cards. Awesome to see you finally got it.
Weird to see a Largent that doesn't have the blue print defect on his nostril too!
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
<< <i>
<< <i>So, does last nights win for the giants send Strahan to the HOF? >>
IMO, he went from being a 75% lock to a 95% lock. The performance of the Giants D-line was dominant, and was against one of, if not the, best O-lines in the business.
Jason >>
Strahan was making the NE Right Tackly look Pop-Warner. He was absolutely man-handling him. I have to admit, I enjoyed the ride of watching the Pats this year. I did enjoy seeing them lose, especially after they went for it on 4th and 13. I always thought that was lame when they were doing that earlier in the year, especially when they had teams down by 20+ in the 4th quarter. (Miami comes to mind, as does the Washington game)
I will say though, that I never want to hear Mercury Morris ever again, and I was very hopeful that the Pats going 19-0 would shut him up for good. But alas, I wake up this morning to him flapping his lips again "We're the first team, we're the best team, nobody can do what we did. Sure they were 18-0 but they finished 18-1 we finished perfect at 17-0" blah blah blah STFU.
End of my tirade.
It was very enjoyable game to watch. Oh and Tyree's catch on his helmet was amazing!
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<< <i>White whale found!!
Great job my friend! Congratulations!
* C. PASCUAL BASIC #3
* T. PEREZ BASIC #4 100%
* L. TIANT BASIC #1
* DRYSDALE BASIC #4 100%
* MAGIC MASTER #4/BASIC #3
* PALMEIRO MASTER/BASIC #1
* '65 DISNEYLAND #2
* '78 ELVIS PRESLEY #6
* '78 THREE'S COMPANY #1
WaltDisneyBoards
Looks like I'll have to settle for 2nd place on the '77 Seahawks team set, LOL.
Did you submitt the card raw?
Tom
Thanks Jason!!
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
First one should be the Red Grange 8 that went in at the $60 level. Estimated 2 business days should definitely be complete this week...
Joe, congrats on the Largent 10..My work blocks photobucket scans so had to wait to get home to see it. I assume that is the new one that popped in the last couple of weeks. Was it rockbottomsports that had it? They did own the newly graded 1993 SP Bettis, they have since listed on ebay.
One day I'll have the capitol to do what they do. I subscribe to their theory as well (best place to find PSA 10's are in in PSA 9 holders), but don't quite do it on their level.
Nice card though.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> Was it rockbottomsports that had it? They did own the newly graded 1993 SP Bettis, they have since listed on ebay.
Jason >>
And for such a reasonable price!
<< <i>
<< <i> Was it rockbottomsports that had it? They did own the newly graded 1993 SP Bettis, they have since listed on ebay.
Jason >>
And for such a reasonable price! >>
Yeah...Its a steal...lol
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm basing this off the new order status view where you can review your past subs. It shows all of the cards that were logged yesterday. All were reviews, so it lists them by line # and by cert #. At that bottom is says, for example,
Total Items: 35
Date Received: 2/4/2008
Date Shipped: N/A
Order Status: OK. 9 items are still being processed.
On this one 9 cards still being processed. None of those 9 show up on the list of logged cards. Based on the cards that are missing from these lists, I think they are the ones that are going to bump either the .5 or full grade. If I'm right, here are my 15 cards getting bumped:
1948 Bowman Wojciechowicz 8
1948 Bowman Pihos 7
1950 Bowman Groza 8
1950 Bowman Perry 8
1950 Bowman Fears 8
1950 Bowman Lavelli 8
1951 Bowman Tunnell 8
1952 Bowman Large Robustelli 8
1952 Bowman Large Lary 8
1955 Bowman McCormack 8
1957 Topps Unitas 8
1957 Topps Hornung 8
1963 Topps Jones 8
1966 Philly Sayers 8
1972 Topps Joiner 9 (was trying for bump to 10)
Will be interesting to see if I am right...Of course I will be ELATED if this is the case...I don't know of any other reason these cards would still be "processing". These were all very high on my list of STRONG possible bumps.
I am STOKED right now to find out if this is true..lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
My eBay Store
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<< <i>Sounds like in the early stages of the .5 bump maybe the head grader is getting a lot of these? Perhaps those were the 9 that they felt had the best shot. Sure would be sweet if those 9 all bumped but even if a couple bump, you're still in good shape. >>
There are actually 15 total pulled from my multiple subs (different grading services based on value)...
I thought that might be a possibility as well, that they have pulled the cards deemed worthy of further review, but not necessarily bumped yet...I can;t wait to find out...Going in, I hoped for anything between 6-12 bumps and I would consider it a success.
The 60 I sent in are the upper crust, visually, of my collection. So 15 (25%) going up a half grade, to me, isn't out of the question. I've owned multiples of many of these cards and always keep the highest end cards that I can.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Good Luck. I'm excited for you, I want to see how this half-grade/full-grade bump system works out now. I'm curious to see if you get any full grade bumps. I presume you just put a min-grade of .5 higher on all these?
My eBay Store
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They all were MAILED TODAY SO LOOK FOR THEM BY THE OR BEFORE THE WEEKEND
Art
<< <i>I've got my "stack" of potential upgrades but then they pulled the $13 /5 day special so I'm holding off. I might to do the <$100 cards on a bulk sub at $8 each as most are in 8 holders but are 3-5x SMR in a 9 so a .5 bump would be worth the $8 or whatever it is.
Good Luck. I'm excited for you, I want to see how this half-grade/full-grade bump system works out now. I'm curious to see if you get any full grade bumps. I presume you just put a min-grade of .5 higher on all these? >>
At least one is a full grade bump, PSA 9 1972 Joiner. Of course with no 9.5, I was looking for the 10 to begin with.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thomas shipped today.
On the sub with the 9 cards still left for review, does it show you the grades or what is happening with the other cards. I'm wondering if we are actually going to get to see when part of a sub is complete before everything is done.
Bill
<< <i>Jason,
Thomas shipped today.
On the sub with the 9 cards still left for review, does it show you the grades or what is happening with the other cards. I'm wondering if we are actually going to get to see when part of a sub is complete before everything is done.
Bill >>
Bill, yes it looks like this:
Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type Country
2 1 30944952 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1950 BOWMAN 9 TONY CANADEO Card US
5 1 06559362 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1950 BOWMAN 52 ELROY HIRSCH Card US
7 1 11957716 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1951 BOWMAN 21 ARNIE WEINMEISTER Card US
As you can see, lines 1, 3, 4, and 6 are missing and included in the count of items are still being processed. They are either going to bump, or at a minimum were pulled for final review for the bump.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Joe
It took Fred Dean's selection into the pro football Hall of Fame for me to understand baseball purists' obsession with Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, performance-enhancing drugs and the sanctity of numbers.
While I still don't agree with the McCarthy-like witch hunt directed at the players, I at least now comprehend the motive.
Honestly, when I learned that Dean's bust would soon be placed alongside Deacon Jones' and Reggie White's, my first thought was: What will we tell the children? My second thought was: Who is to blame and how do I make them pay?
You see, like Bonds and Clemens and all the rest, Fred Dean is not responsible for the devaluing of one of America's great institutions. He's a victim in the dereliction of duty by the men and women charged with the task of keeping the pro football Hall of Fame pure.
As best I can, I won't turn this column into an all-out attack on Dean's very good NFL career. But let's be clear about one thing: Frederick Rudolph Dean has no (freaking) business in the Hall of Fame.
The Hall isn't for very good players. And it damn sure isn't for players who spent 40 percent of their careers as third-down, pass-rush specialists. Fred Dean played pro football for 11 years, participating in 141 games. He came off the bench in 59 of those games and earned a Pro Bowl berth in just four of his 11 seasons. A 230-pound defensive end, Dean was a liability on first and second down and, therefore, spent much of his career watching from the sideline as his teammates played run defense.
He was an oversized, highly effective nickel back/corner blitzer. He was the first situational pass rusher. Put that little piece of innovation on Bill Walsh's HOF resume, just like Mike Ditka gets credit for the Refrigerator backfield and Bill Belichick deserves praise for Mike Vrabel's goal-line TD catches.
But William Perry and Vrabel don't get to make the trip to Canton because their coaches found a unique way to occasionally use them.
I'm sorry. I'm spending too much time on Fred Dean. The problem here is the Hall voters. They're the Bud Seligs of this crime against sports integrity. They lack the backbone to make a hard-line stance for what is right.
Art Monk was a two-time All-Pro and retired with 940 catches, but his career didn't add up to Hall of Fame material, Jason Whitlock says. (Stephen Dunn / Getty Images)
Cowardice is going to ruin the most special place on earth, the pro football HOF. I get it now. I understand the passion to keep the baseball HOF righteous, uncontaminated and reserved for those who really deserve it.
As a child, I dreamed about one day being enshrined at the pro football Hall of Fame. I wrote a speech, and used to read it to my mother. I remember when Dick Butkus and Johnny Unitas went in together.
Dick Butkus, Johnny Unitas and Fred Dean? What do we tell the children?
Well, tell them that the HOF has become more about the voters (a collection of longtime, respected NFL writers) than the players, and getting someone elected is more important than getting the right player selected. There's a lot of voter back-patting when a very good, marginal HOFer gets elected (Rayfield Wright, Roger Wehrli, Elvin Bethea, Joe DeLamielleure, Charlie Sanders, Art Monk and Andre Tippett).
Tell them that Harry Carson scared the (spit) out of Hall voters. Carson, a very good pro, b1tch3d and moaned his way into the 2006 Hall class and convinced a lot of former players (especially the many players who won't sniff the Hall who think they should) that Hall voters lacked the knowledge to hold such important jobs.
Carson's whining and the criticism unleashed by former players-turned-NFL Network broadcasters caused Hall voters to take the approach that it's better to reward a long-suffering, so-so candidate than put in a no-brainer such as Cris Carter.
Other than Darrell Green, the whole 2008 class is an attempt to avoid creating another Harry Carson. The thinking seemed to be: "Let's put 'em in before they start b1tching and people start talking about how we don't know what we're doing."
Someone should've had the testicular fortitude to tell Harry Carson, Fred Dean and Art Monk that they were good, but they just weren't good enough to take a seat next to Mike Singletary, Deacon Jones and Steve Largent.
To enter the Hall, your name needs to be included in the debate for top five at your position all time and/or the distance between the best at your position and you can't be so great that it denigrates the memory of a G.O.A.T.
Troy Aikman and Warren Moon are not among the five best QBs ever to play the game, but their inclusion in the Hall does not diminish John Elway or Joe Montana.
However, comparing Reggie White to Fred Dean is the equivalent of measuring Jenna Jameson against Paris Hilton. We're talking about a ho-fessional legend vs. a backyard camcorder queen. No one ever associated Carson and Butkus. Carson was Randy Gradishar. And Art Monk was rarely the best receiver on his own team. I refuse to use his name in the same sentence with Jerry Rice.
Again, I don't hold Dean, Carson and Monk responsible for backdoor-ing their way into the HOF. I'd do it myself, if I could. Just like I blame baseball owners for allowing the steroids era to happen, I fault Hall voters for not having the guts to lock the door on very good players.
Never again will you see "testicular fortitude" and "ho-fessional" used in the same article. Guaranteed!
I'm still pi$$ed CC and Randall McDaniel did not make it. An absolute travesty if you ask me. Fred Freaking Dean...That may be the very last card I buy for my HOF set.
Oh and if anyone is interested, here is the link to the article, just so you don't think I made up this gem of journalistic excellence on my own.
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Hall exposed
By John McMullen
The Phanatic Magazine
It's pretty obvious that players like Cris Carter and Derrick Thomas are far more worthy of a spot in Canton than say Art Monk and Andre Tippett.
That's why I could care less about the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
It's not about who deserves to go in -- it's all about ego and good old-fashioned reverence among the Hall's 44-person Board of Selectors... Not for the players mind you -- the selectors.
No city in pro football proves that more than Minneapolis.
Let's look at Carter and Monk. The Redskins wideout finished his career with 940 receptions for 12,721 yards and 68 touchdowns. Carter had 1,101 catches for 13,899 yards and 130 TDs. No, Carter didn't collect any SuperBowl rings -- the only argument Redskins supporters can cling too -- but he found the end zone 62 more times than Monk.
So why is Monk in the Hall now and Carter isn't?
Well you have to understand the selection process first. The Board making these decisions consists of one media representative from each pro football city with two from New York. A 33rd member is a representative of the Pro Football Writers of America (an organization I belong too) and there are 11 at-large delegates.
The selectors then meet with the media representatives introducing and making the case for players from the team they cover. In Washington that means David Elfin, the great Washington Times writer and the former PFWA President. For Minneapolis and people like Carter and Randall McDaniel -- it means their fate is in the hands of a doddering old-fool by the name of Sid Hartman.
Elfin commands respect. Hartman commands contempt.
Apologists for the other 42 voters talk about "taking care" of previously forgotten guys like Monk, Tippett, Fred Dean and Gary Zimmerman before the coming crush of big-name Hall-eligible players arrives.
But, here's the bottom line. Monk wasn't elected to the Hall of Fame until this year because Elfin didn't put his stamp of approval on him until now. It's not the player who is up for enshrinement, it's the media representative's reputation. If Elfin was touting Carter and Hartman was championing Monk, the results would be reversed.
Don't think so? Let's look at McDaniel and Zimmerman. They actually played next to each other in Minnesota for five years (1988 to 1992.) In those five seasons, McDaniel was an All-Pro for four years and made four Pro Bowls. The only year missing from his resume was 1988, his rookie season. Zimmerman-- a worthy Hall of Famer by the way -- made two Pro Bowls and was named All-Pro once.
McDaniel went on to start 12 consecutive Pro Bowls in his career -- an NFL record -- and is one of the top two or three guards ever to play the game. The two players remain great friends to this day and Zimmerman would be the first to admit McDaniel was the better player.
So why did Zimmerman get the call before McDaniel? Simply put, Jeff Legwold of the Rocky Mountain News is well-liked. Hartman is not.
The 87-year-old Hartman had been Minnesota's media representative in the Hall selection process forever and his lack of respect among the other voters has been evident for a long time.
Fran Tarkenton retired after the 1978 season as the NFL's all-time leader in completions, passing yardage and touchdowns. He led the Vikings to three SuperBowls but had to wait three years before being enshrined. Dan Marino, who ended his career with the same records and just one Super Bowl appearance, was a slam-dunk, first-year selection.
Legendary players like Carl Eller, Ron Yary and Paul Krause, the all-time interception leader, had to wait over a decade for induction. Jim Marshall, the Lou Gehrig of the NFL, and Mick Tinglehoff, one of the game's great centers are still not in.
Their absences and the snubs of Carter and McDaniel not only expose the disrespect for Hartman, it also magnifies just how little the rest of the voters know about their league as a whole.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.