Your HOF class of 2008: Fred Dean Darrell Green Art Monk Emmitt Thomas Andre Tippett Gary Zimmerman
Made the cut to the final 10 modern candidates: Cris Carter Richard Dent Bob Kuechenberg Randall McDaniel Derrick Thomas
The rest:
Marshall Goldberg Randy Gradishar Russ Grimm Ray Guy Andre Reed Paul Tagliabue
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I knew only 1 Senior was going in AT BEST...Just too many HOF voters were ticked about this years senior selections and wanted to send a message. Hopefully, yhey will somehow better the process...Surprised Thomas was the selection. Goldberg is officially DONE. Two time Senior selection, I can't see him ever getting another shot. Dave, too bad for your PSA 7 on ebay...
No Kuechenberg is the biggest shocker to me...This will send him into the Senior Pool, and he immediately becomes a top contender, much like Rayfiled Wright did a couple of year back...Still, was certian he would finally get the votes..In his place, Gary Zimmerman was chosen as the OL. Can't argue that at ALL..Guy was dominant and very deserving.
Tippett, as I posted yesterday was going to get a huge push this year, and passed Derrick Thomas, mainly on the strength of being a former Patriot.
Art Monk over Carter!!! Not a chocker, but I thought both would get in. In the last few days, the Art Monk movement was the strongest it had ever been. I picked him to go in this year based on that, and happy to see him go in with Green.
Dean isn't a shocker either. He made the cut to 10 (11) last year along with Dent. It was a toss up between those 2 guys.
I have all of these cards already too. I picked up a PSA 9 Dean on the cheap a couple of months ago just in case..Glad I did!
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Has someone emailed Cosetta or Gayle yet with the list of which cards need to be added to the set? I'd do it, but I need to look up E. Thomas's and Dean's rookies first.
I guess no big deal that I lost the PSA 10 Carter (although I still need it for my 1989 Score 10 set). What year is the Dean RC? When will the set comp. be updated? Hopefully at the same time we get new weightings?
I will get with Cosetta on Monday. The players who are already on the Future HOF Modern set should be an easy delete and re-add to the HOF-RC set. For Tippett, Dean and Emmitt Thomas it usually take 2-4 weeks for the names to get added to the set.
Here's the cards:
Fred Dean---1978 Topps#217 Darrell Green---1984 Topps#380 Art Monk---1981 Topps#194 Emmitt Thomas---1972 Topps#157 Andre Tippett---1984 Topps#143 Gary Zimmerman---1987 Topps#207
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
That's the main reason I quit the Sr. and Modern HOF hopeful set. Only 3 of the 6 selected were in either set. In fact, I had heard Tippetts name before, but could not have told you who he played for, or what postion he played until Jason said something 2 days ago. Good thing I hit his BIN...
<< <i>I will get with Cosetta on Monday. The players who are already on the Future HOF Modern set should be an easy delete and re-add to the HOF-RC set. For Tippett, Dean and Emmitt Thomas it usually take 2-4 weeks for the names to get added to the set.
Here's the cards:
Fred Dean---1978 Topps#217 Darrell Green---1984 Topps#380 Art Monk---1981 Topps#194 Emmitt Thomas---1972 Topps#157 Andre Tippett---1984 Topps#143 Gary Zimmerman---1987 Topps#207 >>
The funny part is Dave, we just voted for new additions to the HOF-Modern set and Fred Dean didn't get the votes here to request his addition...lol
I guess that's why we are collector's and not HOF voters..lol
The only way to get 100% HOFers from the modern and senior sets would be more inclusive, and make the sets 100+ players each...You never know how those voters are gonna vote...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
i really think that they need to revise the whole sr candidate thing. i mean i can see goldberg as a sr but thomas. maybe they need to just make everyone eligible longer or say that you need a certain % to stay in the race. i mean how long was thomas eligible...now he makes it as a sr. he used up all his "modern" eligiblity years and couldnt get in.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Nothing wrong with using the modern and senior sets as a guide and if you agree with the players as future HOFers collect them, if you don't then ignore them.
If you believe someone is a future HOFer and everyone disagrees, who says you are not right.
I would like to hear Jason's opinion on this.
Have shine box will travel ------------ BOBBY ORR THE BEST THERE WAS! THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE! ------------
<< <i>i really think that they need to revise the whole sr candidate thing. i mean i can see goldberg as a sr but thomas. maybe they need to just make everyone eligible longer or say that you need a certain % to stay in the race. i mean how long was thomas eligible...now he makes it as a sr. he used up all his "modern" eligiblity years and couldnt get in. >>
What does this mean for next year? Who is first year eligible. I know we discussed this earlier but with the cleaning up of some old business maybe the way will be more clear.
What does this do to the sets?
Kuechenberg goes from modern future set to senior future set.
Marc
Have shine box will travel ------------ BOBBY ORR THE BEST THERE WAS! THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE! ------------
What does this mean for next year? Who is first year eligible. I know we discussed this earlier but with the cleaning up of some old business maybe the way will be more clear.
What does this do to the sets?
Kuechenberg goes from modern future set to senior future set.
Marc >>
Yep, Kuech will automatically move to the Senior set...Same for Gradishar, who is currently being voted on for the modern set.
Next year you have:
Bruce Smith Rod Woodson Shannon Sharpe
Now Carter gets pushed back, and I would think is the top carryover guy from this year. That might push Sharpe back, but I think Smith and Woodson are as lock as they come in 2009...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Does Fred Dean go in as a 49er or Charger? Does Zimmerman go in as a Viking or a Bronco?
I say 49er and Viking >>
That's the baseball HOF that does that...Football HOF doesn't elect guys in any certain team cap or uniform.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Does Fred Dean go in as a 49er or Charger? Does Zimmerman go in as a Viking or a Bronco?
I say 49er and Viking >>
That's the baseball HOF that does that...Football HOF doesn't elect guys in any certain team cap or uniform.
Jason >>
not exactly. if you look at the HOF website and the listings under franchises some are consider more with some teams than others. take the packers, 21 mainly GB/5 mainly other teams. Len Ford, Em Tunnell, Ted Hendricks, Jan Stenerud and Walt Kiesling are listed as mainly with other teams. Or for example Reggie White, he is listed by Philly and GB as main player but as a minor player for Carolina. So Favre will be listed as a GB with a minor for the Falcons.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Nothing wrong with using the modern and senior sets as a guide and if you agree with the players as future HOFers collect them, if you don't then ignore them.
If you believe someone is a future HOFer and everyone disagrees, who says you are not right.
I would like to hear Jason's opinion on this. >>
I agree...Those sets are for the masses, so its popular vote that adds the cards...I picked up the Dean, Thomas and Tippett in the past year even though they weren't on the set...Its up to each collector to collect what they enjoy.
I think every single one of the players on the modern set will eventually get in. At-water, IMO, has one more shot at making the SEMI-finals or else I am going to propose that he gets removed. That will be his 5th try and will have never made the top 25.
8 of the final 10 modern candidates this year were on our Future set, and 1 of the other 2 was about to be added..Would have already been added if it weren't taking PSA a month+ to get a poll sent out...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Does Fred Dean go in as a 49er or Charger? Does Zimmerman go in as a Viking or a Bronco?
I say 49er and Viking >>
That's the baseball HOF that does that...Football HOF doesn't elect guys in any certain team cap or uniform.
Jason >>
not exactly. if you look at the HOF website and the listings under franchises some are consider more with some teams than others. take the packers, 21 mainly GB/5 mainly other teams. Len Ford, Em Tunnell, Ted Hendricks, Jan Stenerud and Walt Kiesling are listed as mainly with other teams. Or for example Reggie White, he is listed by Philly and GB as main player but as a minor player for Carolina. So Favre will be listed as a GB with a minor for the Falcons. >>
Oh ok, I get what you are saying..On that list of franchises, they base it strictly on time in service..Guys can be listed as MAIN players for multiple teams...
Dean with be listed as a Charger and a 49er...Zimmerman a Bronco and a Viking..
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Does Fred Dean go in as a 49er or Charger? Does Zimmerman go in as a Viking or a Bronco?
I say 49er and Viking >>
Dean played 6 years + 3 games (84 total games) as a Charger, and 4 years + 11 games (57 total games) as a 49er...so I say he goes in as a Charger
Steve >>
He'll go as BOTH...He played long enough for the 49ers to be listed as a MAIN player for both franchises. But he won;t go in with a team cap or uniform or anything like that. He'll just be listed under both teams on the HOF website.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Does anyone have a Tippett 9 or 10 for sale? Or Dean in 8 or 9. >>
I put my extra Tippett 9 on ebay with a $32 BIN and it was sold in minutes...lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Does Fred Dean go in as a 49er or Charger? Does Zimmerman go in as a Viking or a Bronco?
I say 49er and Viking >>
Dean played 6 years + 3 games (84 total games) as a Charger, and 4 years + 11 games (57 total games) as a 49er...so I say he goes in as a Charger
Steve >>
He'll go as BOTH...He played long enough for the 49ers to be listed as a MAIN player for both franchises. But he won;t go in with a team cap or uniform or anything like that. He'll just be listed under both teams on the HOF website.
Jason >>
Thanks for the clarification Jason. I was unaware of the way the FBHOF acknowledges player/team affiliations. I saw your previous post, but only after I posted my response above, where I was thinking along the lines of the way the BBHOF does it.
Just got in from seeing a terrible movie and watching the '08 selctions, which I had taped. I am STUNNED that Carter didn't make it. Literally stunned. This is why HOF voting can sometimes be seen as a total crapshoot. At times there is just no ryhme or reason to any of it.
On the brightside, I have PSA 9's of all 6 players, all bought on the cheap
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
In fact, I had heard Tippetts name before, but could not have told you who he played for, or what postion he played until Jason said something 2 days ago
Really? He was probably the best LB in all of football for almost a decade. I never thought he was that underrated...
<< <i>Just got in from seeing a terrible movie and watching the '08 selctions, which I had taped. I am STUNNED that Carter didn't make it. Literally stunned. This is why HOF voting can sometimes be seen as a total crapshoot. At times there is just no ryhme or reason to any of it.
On the brightside, I have PSA 9's of all 6 players, all bought on the cheap >>
The Art Monk push got REAL heavy last week, which is why he was in my final predictions as going in...I didn't think he would actually BUMP Carter out though. But, as we talked about earlier in this post, it is RARE for 2 players from the same position to go in the same year. This election stuck to that...Carter will be near the top of the list next year.
Next year with Bruce Smith in the mix, you can pretty much write off Richard Dent's chances...Woodson also being a lock, I would think at best only ONE other defensive guy will get in. With Zimmerman and Kuechenberg out of the way plus 2 Redskins going in hurting Grimm, I think McDaniel will be a top choice next year.
So, IMO 4 of the 5 modern spots are pretty tight:
Bruce Smith Rod Woodson Cris Carter Randall McDaniel
All 4 are by far the strongest at their position...
For the 5th spot, your looking at Shannon Sharpe, Derrick Thomas and Ken Stabler as the strongest contenders. 2009 is Stabler's last chance. He's the top QB candidate on the board, with none on the radar until 5 years after Favre retires...I think I'll go with Stabler as the 5th choice next year. They tend to go with a at least one guy who's been waiting a few years, and none of the other 4 will have waited long at all. Sharpe will eventually get in, but I don't think first ballot.
For seniors, Its a total toss up...I will get the list of Senior semifinalists in June/July..
Never know though (obviously)...Just guessing...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>In fact, I had heard Tippetts name before, but could not have told you who he played for, or what postion he played until Jason said something 2 days ago
Really? He was probably the best LB in all of football for almost a decade. I never thought he was that underrated...
Edited to say: SECOND best LB (sorry, LT)... >>
Honestly, Yes. that is the truth. I was not even a football fan until the late ninty's when I moved to the Indianapolis area and Manning arrived. The only things i heard about some of the older players, were from this message board. I don't think I've seen Tippett's name even mentioned here..
Dave, don't be a quitter...If you need it, buy it!!!!lol
With the Tippett 9, I think you'll see 10+ of them on by Monday..So I wanted to strike hard and fast..lol...I only paid $6 for it, so its all good. It's all about timing..Had your Goldberg ended yesterday, probably would have gotten $200 more..BUT, had he made the HOF $400 more...All in good fun! Your welcome for the tip on Tippett...Saved you a few $$ on that one. But had he not made it, $6 card...
Too bad I sold my extra Zimmerman 9 a week or so ago. Someone listed a 9 with a $75 BIN and it sold in minutes as well...lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>In fact, I had heard Tippetts name before, but could not have told you who he played for, or what postion he played until Jason said something 2 days ago
Really? He was probably the best LB in all of football for almost a decade. I never thought he was that underrated...
Edited to say: SECOND best LB (sorry, LT)... >>
Honestly, Yes. that is the truth. I was not even a football fan until the late ninty's when I moved to the Indianapolis area and Manning arrived. The only things i heard about some of the older players, were from this message board. I don't think I've seen Tippett's name even mentioned here..
Dave >>
Before last year, Tippett had never even made the semi-finals (top 25)...He has been HOF eligible since 1999..So, although he was a great player, he was just another of the long list of overlooked LBs. Last year he broke through to the Finals and had his case presented. It opened a lot of eyes to how good he really was. It could happen to many of the other guys down the road...
So, can't really blame anyone for being surprised, especially if they didn't follow the NFL in the 80s. While I think Tippett is worthy, I could list many other LBs who should be in before Tippett IMO...
Tommy Nobis Chris Hanburger Chuck Howley Derrick Thomas Or how about Kevin Greene? Talk about sacking the QB...He has all the credentials that Tippett has. Same number of Pro Bowls, 1 more All-Pro selection(1st team), was a FIRST TEAM All Decade of the 90's, played in a Super Bowl, MORE sacks than Tippett...
The good think is they broke the logjam at LB and DE. Which will help the Kevin Greene and Derrick Thomas type guys...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm still thinking that, with the Goldberg, I will still "break even" with it. It is a SP rookie and I think there are only 10 or so graded higher... I have had so many good breaks with my submissions this year that it was bound that one of them would come through. I cant complain though......
thanks again for the tip on the "tip"ett....LOL...
Thanks to Art, I now have all the new HOF'ers ready to go in my set....
I expect there to be a bunch of battles for Dean rookies on eBay in the next few weeks.
There are only 33 9s and 2 10s of the card (and 24 8s, for the people willing to collect in lower grades), and he hasn't really been on people's radar screens as a HOFer (plus many of those are locked up in '78 sets by people who aren't FB HOF RC collectors).
Emmitt Thomas has 40 8s and 13 9s. Considering how many are already locked up by '72 set collectors and FB HOF RC collectors who were guessing in advance, I don't think many will come up for a while, but I expect spirited battles over each one.
Monk and Green are easy to find (26 10s and over 300 9s of each man), and Tippett and Zimmerman are fairly easy to find in high-grade raw (plus Tippett has 50 9s and 9 10s and Zimmerman has 36 9s and 2 10s, few of which are locked up in sets by guys who don't collect FB HOF RCs).
I just uploaded my set. I don't focus on rookie cards, but I don't pass up good deals on them either.
I have a Dean 8 that I picked up a couple years ago for about $3 or so on eBay that will be joining my set as soon as Cosetta gives the all-clear.
<< <i>I agree with Jason that Tippett has, for the most part, only received such strong consideration now because of how good the Pats are doing.
Jason, will this make (2) members from that 1985 Pats SB team? >>
Yep, John Hannah was the other...The Bears team that dominated them in that Super Bowl? Walter, Singletary and Hampton...Dent should have went in over Dean. I honestly don't understand how/why Dean is viewed as being better. Dean was a super solid guy, but he didn't disrupt like Dent.
Check out these stats:
Dent had 1371/2 career sacks compared to 100 for Tippett, the former Patriots linebacker. Dean, the former Chargers and 49ers defensive end, played most of his career before sacks became an official statistic, but football researcher John Turney estimates Dean had 93 career sacks.
Dent had eight seasons in which he had 10 sacks. Dean had an estimated five. Tippett had three.
Dent had 21 career takeaways. Tippett had 18. Dean had 14.
Dent had 37 career forced fumbles. Tippett had 14. Dean had eight, though figures for forced fumbles are unavailable for the first four years of his career.
Dent had 58 passes defended. Tippett had 17. Dean had 13, not including the first four years of his career.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
That's $67.51 for the last 4 combined. I bet the next 9 passes that on its own. They also have prices for two 10's, both between $200 and $220.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Emmitt Thomas has 40 8s and 13 9s. Considering how many are already locked up by '72 set collectors and FB HOF RC collectors who were guessing in advance, I don't think many will come up for a while, but I expect spirited battles over each one.
Nick >>
It looks that way, as the 72 Thomas 8 that just ended went for $150 and change. Of course, there will be more of these available for submission than, say, the 66 Phila. Brown & Hickerson. Still, it will be tight for awhile. Those of you who have them are in good shape. Those of us who don't will have to enjoy the chase. Isn't that the fun of it anyway?
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
FYi...Just realized that Bob Kuechenberg actually has another year of modern eligibility.
Although 1983 is his last season playing, he was on I.R. in 1984. Turns out, he wasn't placed on I.R. until after the season began. So he was on a roster, and has another year left on the modern ballot.
I'd put him right at the top of the list again. It will be between him and Stabler as last guys in their final season being eligible in 2009.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I guess I must have overrated the Bears of the 1980's. I thought they deserved more than three people to go in from those teams. If it is a popularity contest, then Chicago sportswriters are terrible at drumming up support for candidates who should'nt need that much support. IMO Dent should have gotten in this year and Jimbo Covert should be up for serious consideration.
Comments
Fred Dean
Darrell Green
Art Monk
Emmitt Thomas
Andre Tippett
Gary Zimmerman
Made the cut to the final 10 modern candidates:
Cris Carter
Richard Dent
Bob Kuechenberg
Randall McDaniel
Derrick Thomas
The rest:
Marshall Goldberg
Randy Gradishar
Russ Grimm
Ray Guy
Andre Reed
Paul Tagliabue
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Edited to say: Also, first time I have had the whole class purchased already.
Strange.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
I knew only 1 Senior was going in AT BEST...Just too many HOF voters were ticked about this years senior selections and wanted to send a message. Hopefully, yhey will somehow better the process...Surprised Thomas was the selection. Goldberg is officially DONE. Two time Senior selection, I can't see him ever getting another shot. Dave, too bad for your PSA 7 on ebay...
No Kuechenberg is the biggest shocker to me...This will send him into the Senior Pool, and he immediately becomes a top contender, much like Rayfiled Wright did a couple of year back...Still, was certian he would finally get the votes..In his place, Gary Zimmerman was chosen as the OL. Can't argue that at ALL..Guy was dominant and very deserving.
Tippett, as I posted yesterday was going to get a huge push this year, and passed Derrick Thomas, mainly on the strength of being a former Patriot.
Art Monk over Carter!!! Not a chocker, but I thought both would get in. In the last few days, the Art Monk movement was the strongest it had ever been. I picked him to go in this year based on that, and happy to see him go in with Green.
Dean isn't a shocker either. He made the cut to 10 (11) last year along with Dent. It was a toss up between those 2 guys.
I have all of these cards already too. I picked up a PSA 9 Dean on the cheap a couple of months ago just in case..Glad I did!
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'd do it, but I need to look up E. Thomas's and Dean's rookies first.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
In the words of Forest Gump THATS ALL I GOT TO SAY ABOUT THAT
Congrats at last to MR Monk as well as the D, Green
Here's the cards:
Fred Dean---1978 Topps#217
Darrell Green---1984 Topps#380
Art Monk---1981 Topps#194
Emmitt Thomas---1972 Topps#157
Andre Tippett---1984 Topps#143
Gary Zimmerman---1987 Topps#207
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>I will get with Cosetta on Monday. The players who are already on the Future HOF Modern set should be an easy delete and re-add to the HOF-RC set. For Tippett, Dean and Emmitt Thomas it usually take 2-4 weeks for the names to get added to the set.
Here's the cards:
Fred Dean---1978 Topps#217
Darrell Green---1984 Topps#380
Art Monk---1981 Topps#194
Emmitt Thomas---1972 Topps#157
Andre Tippett---1984 Topps#143
Gary Zimmerman---1987 Topps#207 >>
Thanks, J.
I guess that's why we are collector's and not HOF voters..lol
The only way to get 100% HOFers from the modern and senior sets would be more inclusive, and make the sets 100+ players each...You never know how those voters are gonna vote...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Also a dozen Green 9,s and 2 extra 10,s
I understand what Dave is saying.
Nothing wrong with using the modern and senior sets as a guide and if you agree with the players as future HOFers collect them, if you don't then ignore them.
If you believe someone is a future HOFer and everyone disagrees, who says you are not right.
I would like to hear Jason's opinion on this.
------------
BOBBY ORR
THE BEST THERE WAS!
THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE!
------------
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Does Fred Dean go in as a 49er or Charger? Does Zimmerman go in as a Viking or a Bronco?
I say 49er and Viking
<< <i>i really think that they need to revise the whole sr candidate thing. i mean i can see goldberg as a sr but thomas. maybe they need to just make everyone eligible longer or say that you need a certain % to stay in the race. i mean how long was thomas eligible...now he makes it as a sr. he used up all his "modern" eligiblity years and couldnt get in. >>
The understatement of the day.
What does this mean for next year? Who is first year eligible.
I know we discussed this earlier but with the cleaning up of some old business maybe the way will be more clear.
What does this do to the sets?
Kuechenberg goes from modern future set to senior future set.
Marc
------------
BOBBY ORR
THE BEST THERE WAS!
THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE!
------------
<< <i>If any of the crew here needs them i have 10 extra Monk 9,s and 1 extra 10
Also a dozen Green 9,s and 2 extra 10,s >>
I have a Green, but I do need a Monk. Let me know, thanks.
<< <i>Jason --
What does this mean for next year? Who is first year eligible.
I know we discussed this earlier but with the cleaning up of some old business maybe the way will be more clear.
What does this do to the sets?
Kuechenberg goes from modern future set to senior future set.
Marc >>
Yep, Kuech will automatically move to the Senior set...Same for Gradishar, who is currently being voted on for the modern set.
Next year you have:
Bruce Smith
Rod Woodson
Shannon Sharpe
Now Carter gets pushed back, and I would think is the top carryover guy from this year. That might push Sharpe back, but I think Smith and Woodson are as lock as they come in 2009...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>So, the questions now are.
Does Fred Dean go in as a 49er or Charger? Does Zimmerman go in as a Viking or a Bronco?
I say 49er and Viking >>
That's the baseball HOF that does that...Football HOF doesn't elect guys in any certain team cap or uniform.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>So, the questions now are.
Does Fred Dean go in as a 49er or Charger? Does Zimmerman go in as a Viking or a Bronco?
I say 49er and Viking >>
That's the baseball HOF that does that...Football HOF doesn't elect guys in any certain team cap or uniform.
Jason >>
not exactly. if you look at the HOF website and the listings under franchises some are consider more with some teams than others. take the packers, 21 mainly GB/5 mainly other teams. Len Ford, Em Tunnell, Ted Hendricks, Jan Stenerud and Walt Kiesling are listed as mainly with other teams. Or for example Reggie White, he is listed by Philly and GB as main player but as a minor player for Carolina. So Favre will be listed as a GB with a minor for the Falcons.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>I need a Gary Zimmerman 10
I understand what Dave is saying.
Nothing wrong with using the modern and senior sets as a guide and if you agree with the players as future HOFers collect them, if you don't then ignore them.
If you believe someone is a future HOFer and everyone disagrees, who says you are not right.
I would like to hear Jason's opinion on this. >>
I agree...Those sets are for the masses, so its popular vote that adds the cards...I picked up the Dean, Thomas and Tippett in the past year even though they weren't on the set...Its up to each collector to collect what they enjoy.
I think every single one of the players on the modern set will eventually get in. At-water, IMO, has one more shot at making the SEMI-finals or else I am going to propose that he gets removed. That will be his 5th try and will have never made the top 25.
8 of the final 10 modern candidates this year were on our Future set, and 1 of the other 2 was about to be added..Would have already been added if it weren't taking PSA a month+ to get a poll sent out...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So, the questions now are.
Does Fred Dean go in as a 49er or Charger? Does Zimmerman go in as a Viking or a Bronco?
I say 49er and Viking >>
That's the baseball HOF that does that...Football HOF doesn't elect guys in any certain team cap or uniform.
Jason >>
not exactly. if you look at the HOF website and the listings under franchises some are consider more with some teams than others. take the packers, 21 mainly GB/5 mainly other teams. Len Ford, Em Tunnell, Ted Hendricks, Jan Stenerud and Walt Kiesling are listed as mainly with other teams. Or for example Reggie White, he is listed by Philly and GB as main player but as a minor player for Carolina. So Favre will be listed as a GB with a minor for the Falcons. >>
Oh ok, I get what you are saying..On that list of franchises, they base it strictly on time in service..Guys can be listed as MAIN players for multiple teams...
Dean with be listed as a Charger and a 49er...Zimmerman a Bronco and a Viking..
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>So, the questions now are.
Does Fred Dean go in as a 49er or Charger? Does Zimmerman go in as a Viking or a Bronco?
I say 49er and Viking >>
Dean played 6 years + 3 games (84 total games) as a Charger, and 4 years + 11 games (57 total games) as a 49er...so I say he goes in as a Charger
Steve
Or Dean in 8 or 9.
Vince_steele@hotmail.com
<< <i>
<< <i>So, the questions now are.
Does Fred Dean go in as a 49er or Charger? Does Zimmerman go in as a Viking or a Bronco?
I say 49er and Viking >>
Dean played 6 years + 3 games (84 total games) as a Charger, and 4 years + 11 games (57 total games) as a 49er...so I say he goes in as a Charger
Steve >>
He'll go as BOTH...He played long enough for the 49ers to be listed as a MAIN player for both franchises. But he won;t go in with a team cap or uniform or anything like that. He'll just be listed under both teams on the HOF website.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Does anyone have a Tippett 9 or 10 for sale?
Or Dean in 8 or 9. >>
I put my extra Tippett 9 on ebay with a $32 BIN and it was sold in minutes...lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So, the questions now are.
Does Fred Dean go in as a 49er or Charger? Does Zimmerman go in as a Viking or a Bronco?
I say 49er and Viking >>
Dean played 6 years + 3 games (84 total games) as a Charger, and 4 years + 11 games (57 total games) as a 49er...so I say he goes in as a Charger
Steve >>
He'll go as BOTH...He played long enough for the 49ers to be listed as a MAIN player for both franchises. But he won;t go in with a team cap or uniform or anything like that. He'll just be listed under both teams on the HOF website.
Jason >>
Thanks for the clarification Jason. I was unaware of the way the FBHOF acknowledges player/team affiliations. I saw your previous post, but only after I posted my response above, where I was thinking along the lines of the way the BBHOF does it.
Steve
On the brightside, I have PSA 9's of all 6 players, all bought on the cheap
Really? He was probably the best LB in all of football for almost a decade. I never thought he was that underrated...
Edited to say: SECOND best LB (sorry, LT)...
<< <i>Just got in from seeing a terrible movie and watching the '08 selctions, which I had taped. I am STUNNED that Carter didn't make it. Literally stunned. This is why HOF voting can sometimes be seen as a total crapshoot. At times there is just no ryhme or reason to any of it.
On the brightside, I have PSA 9's of all 6 players, all bought on the cheap
The Art Monk push got REAL heavy last week, which is why he was in my final predictions as going in...I didn't think he would actually BUMP Carter out though. But, as we talked about earlier in this post, it is RARE for 2 players from the same position to go in the same year. This election stuck to that...Carter will be near the top of the list next year.
Next year with Bruce Smith in the mix, you can pretty much write off Richard Dent's chances...Woodson also being a lock, I would think at best only ONE other defensive guy will get in. With Zimmerman and Kuechenberg out of the way plus 2 Redskins going in hurting Grimm, I think McDaniel will be a top choice next year.
So, IMO 4 of the 5 modern spots are pretty tight:
Bruce Smith
Rod Woodson
Cris Carter
Randall McDaniel
All 4 are by far the strongest at their position...
For the 5th spot, your looking at Shannon Sharpe, Derrick Thomas and Ken Stabler as the strongest contenders. 2009 is Stabler's last chance. He's the top QB candidate on the board, with none on the radar until 5 years after Favre retires...I think I'll go with Stabler as the 5th choice next year. They tend to go with a at least one guy who's been waiting a few years, and none of the other 4 will have waited long at all. Sharpe will eventually get in, but I don't think first ballot.
For seniors, Its a total toss up...I will get the list of Senior semifinalists in June/July..
Never know though (obviously)...Just guessing...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I put my extra Tippett 9 on ebay with a $32 BIN and it was sold in minutes...lol >>
I would have put that baby on for 7 days and let it ride.......I bet it would have brought over $50 easy...
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
1933 Sport Kings Red Grange PSA 1
1935 NATIONAL CHICLE KEN STRONG #7 PSA 2 ROOKIE HOF
1935 National Chicle Cliff Battles PSA 6
1950 BOWMAN PSA 6 ELROY HIRSCH
1952 BOWMAN SMALL FB #29 HUGH McELHENNY PSA 6
1962 Topps Fran Tarkenton # 90 PSA 7
1963 FLEER FB #72 LANCE ALWORTH PSA 7 ROOKIE
1970 Topps Elvin Bethea RC PSA 8
1974 Topps #383 John Hannah PSA 8
1981 Topps Art Monk PSA 9
1982 TOPPS FOOTBALL #486 RONNIE LOTT RC PSA 9
1984 Topps Darrell Green PSA 9
1986 Topps RC #389 Bruce Smith PSA 9 Rookie
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>In fact, I had heard Tippetts name before, but could not have told you who he played for, or what postion he played until Jason said something 2 days ago
Really? He was probably the best LB in all of football for almost a decade. I never thought he was that underrated...
Edited to say: SECOND best LB (sorry, LT)... >>
Honestly, Yes. that is the truth. I was not even a football fan until the late ninty's when I moved to the Indianapolis area and Manning arrived. The only things i heard about some of the older players, were from this message board. I don't think I've seen Tippett's name even mentioned here..
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
With the Tippett 9, I think you'll see 10+ of them on by Monday..So I wanted to strike hard and fast..lol...I only paid $6 for it, so its all good. It's all about timing..Had your Goldberg ended yesterday, probably would have gotten $200 more..BUT, had he made the HOF $400 more...All in good fun! Your welcome for the tip on Tippett...Saved you a few $$ on that one. But had he not made it, $6 card...
Too bad I sold my extra Zimmerman 9 a week or so ago. Someone listed a 9 with a $75 BIN and it sold in minutes as well...lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>In fact, I had heard Tippetts name before, but could not have told you who he played for, or what postion he played until Jason said something 2 days ago
Really? He was probably the best LB in all of football for almost a decade. I never thought he was that underrated...
Edited to say: SECOND best LB (sorry, LT)... >>
Honestly, Yes. that is the truth. I was not even a football fan until the late ninty's when I moved to the Indianapolis area and Manning arrived. The only things i heard about some of the older players, were from this message board. I don't think I've seen Tippett's name even mentioned here..
Dave >>
Before last year, Tippett had never even made the semi-finals (top 25)...He has been HOF eligible since 1999..So, although he was a great player, he was just another of the long list of overlooked LBs. Last year he broke through to the Finals and had his case presented. It opened a lot of eyes to how good he really was. It could happen to many of the other guys down the road...
So, can't really blame anyone for being surprised, especially if they didn't follow the NFL in the 80s. While I think Tippett is worthy, I could list many other LBs who should be in before Tippett IMO...
Tommy Nobis
Chris Hanburger
Chuck Howley
Derrick Thomas
Or how about Kevin Greene? Talk about sacking the QB...He has all the credentials that Tippett has. Same number of Pro Bowls, 1 more All-Pro selection(1st team), was a FIRST TEAM All Decade of the 90's, played in a Super Bowl, MORE sacks than Tippett...
The good think is they broke the logjam at LB and DE. Which will help the Kevin Greene and Derrick Thomas type guys...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm still thinking that, with the Goldberg, I will still "break even" with it. It is a SP rookie and I think there are only 10 or so graded higher...
I have had so many good breaks with my submissions this year that it was bound that one of them would come through. I cant complain though......
thanks again for the tip on the "tip"ett....LOL...
Thanks to Art, I now have all the new HOF'ers ready to go in my set....
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
There are only 33 9s and 2 10s of the card (and 24 8s, for the people willing to collect in lower grades), and he hasn't really been on people's radar screens as a HOFer (plus many of those are locked up in '78 sets by people who aren't FB HOF RC collectors).
Emmitt Thomas has 40 8s and 13 9s. Considering how many are already locked up by '72 set collectors and FB HOF RC collectors who were guessing in advance, I don't think many will come up for a while, but I expect spirited battles over each one.
Monk and Green are easy to find (26 10s and over 300 9s of each man), and Tippett and Zimmerman are fairly easy to find in high-grade raw (plus Tippett has 50 9s and 9 10s and Zimmerman has 36 9s and 2 10s, few of which are locked up in sets by guys who don't collect FB HOF RCs).
I just uploaded my set. I don't focus on rookie cards, but I don't pass up good deals on them either.
I have a Dean 8 that I picked up a couple years ago for about $3 or so on eBay that will be joining my set as soon as Cosetta gives the all-clear.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Jason, will this make (2) members from that 1985 Pats SB team?
<< <i>I agree with Jason that Tippett has, for the most part, only received such strong consideration now because of how good the Pats are doing.
Jason, will this make (2) members from that 1985 Pats SB team? >>
Yep, John Hannah was the other...The Bears team that dominated them in that Super Bowl? Walter, Singletary and Hampton...Dent should have went in over Dean. I honestly don't understand how/why Dean is viewed as being better. Dean was a super solid guy, but he didn't disrupt like Dent.
Check out these stats:
Dent had 1371/2 career sacks compared to 100 for Tippett, the former Patriots linebacker. Dean, the former Chargers and 49ers defensive end, played most of his career before sacks became an official statistic, but football researcher John Turney estimates Dean had 93 career sacks.
Dent had eight seasons in which he had 10 sacks. Dean had an estimated five. Tippett had three.
Dent had 21 career takeaways. Tippett had 18. Dean had 14.
Dent had 37 career forced fumbles. Tippett had 14. Dean had eight, though figures for forced fumbles are unavailable for the first four years of his career.
Dent had 58 passes defended. Tippett had 17. Dean had 13, not including the first four years of his career.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
9/16/07 eBay Auction bkritz michael82261 2 $9.00
8/26/07 eBay Auction bkritz michael82261 2 $9.00
8/22/07 eBay Auction 4_sharp_corners-2 troubletribe9 3 $16.51
1/21/07 eBay $33.00
That's $67.51 for the last 4 combined. I bet the next 9 passes that on its own. They also have prices for two 10's, both between $200 and $220.
<< <i>
Emmitt Thomas has 40 8s and 13 9s. Considering how many are already locked up by '72 set collectors and FB HOF RC collectors who were guessing in advance, I don't think many will come up for a while, but I expect spirited battles over each one.
Nick >>
It looks that way, as the 72 Thomas 8 that just ended went for $150 and change. Of course, there will be more of these available for submission than, say, the 66 Phila. Brown & Hickerson. Still, it will be tight for awhile. Those of you who have them are in good shape. Those of us who don't will have to enjoy the chase. Isn't that the fun of it anyway?
Art Miller
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Although 1983 is his last season playing, he was on I.R. in 1984. Turns out, he wasn't placed on I.R. until after the season began. So he was on a roster, and has another year left on the modern ballot.
I'd put him right at the top of the list again. It will be between him and Stabler as last guys in their final season being eligible in 2009.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I thought they deserved more than three people to go in from those teams.
If it is a popularity contest, then Chicago sportswriters are terrible at drumming up support for candidates who should'nt need that much support.
IMO Dent should have gotten in this year and Jimbo Covert should be up for serious consideration.