I have Future HOF sets registered for all 4 sports, and the requests over the last couple of years have been largely ridiculous. I don't know if it's clueless collectors, people trying to find a set to fit their cards in, or dudes trying to inflate the value of a card by having it added to a set, but I wish it would stop. Part of the problem is that a player should be added to a set BEFORE his card is chosen for it. Otherwise we not only have undeserving players nominated, but the wrong cards to boot. Ughhh.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
1000% agree...I tried many years ago to get PSA to stick with a specific process on adding cards to the Key card and future HOF sets...It worked for a little while with Cosetta, where we would discuss the player and then the card here, vote, decide, then send it to her. It was a once per year process. Somewhere along the line, since there was never anything put in writing on the process, a collector or two complained and wanted their guy, their card added...The Registry folks caved to their complaints and a few years later you see where it has gotten us...
I gave up on it and figured will just vote my vote when it comes up and let the chips fall where they may...I sold off and quit collecting most of the sets the more ridiculous they got...At one point adding Brett Favre to the All Decade Team of the 1990s...lol
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
JP, do you think the Patriots being in the Super Bowl (Ty Law) or John Lynch being named 49ers GM will have any impact on their HOF voting this year? I know it shouldn't, but we've seen things like that factor in before.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
It has definitely helped candidates in the past, no doubt about it...I think Lynch was/is getting in regardless of the GM position. I base that off of him reaching the final 10 last year and remaining as the top defensive player on the board, although Dawkins could conceivably steal some votes...
For Ty Law to get in, it would mean going from semifinalist/nominee the year prior to HOF inductee the following year. Rare occurrence with only one case I can find since 2004...
Rickey Jackson in 2010...Same year the Saints were in a Super Bowl, Jackson had never been a finalist, only a semifinalist
So there is precedent...On the Defensive side, Jackson had to leapfrog both Richard Dent and Cortez Kennedy....In Law's case he will need to leapfrog Lynch..So IMO, it is probably a low odds opportunity for him, maybe 30%, but if anyone is going to longshot to take a spot this year it is Ty Law.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Just to add to the above...Law, Isaac Bruce and Mawae making the final 15 in their 3rd year of eligibility puts their ultimate HOF odds closer to 80%...Very few who made the top 15 that quickly who are not in the HOF. Only recent case being LC Greenwood.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
So I'm pretty confused on the process. I recently got a request on the All-Time Lakers set to add AC Green. Crazy right? Big part of Showtime era, but c'mon. Fortunately it was rejected. In that case the card was clear, 87F, so no real say on card selection.
When Woodson was added to Cowboys Ring of Honor, we actually got a vote on the card to be added since he has multiple RCs.
So...I'm confused on some of the requested additions. Should it not be two votes? One as to whether or not to add the player, and if so, another for which card to add?
It seems a single requester is specifying the card for a particular player, and that seems wrong. My own personal axe, but it seems like this is the type of stuff that gets the Pacific card chosen for Warner. And then once selected it can't be changed.
There should be a defined process, but maybe that's the Operations guy in me.
Vent complete.
52-90 All Sports, Mostly Topps, Mostly HOF, and some assorted wax.
Aside from Pacific, what would be Warner's most valuable rookie card that meets PSA's criteria for inclusion in the set (at least 999 made, no auto, no refractor/parallel)? I'm not advocating that we change it. Just curious.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
I questioned set registry people on the Antonio Brown and got following:
Me - In past any card had to be numbered 999 or more qualify - did this change recently? Cards numbered less or with autograph were not allowed.
Reponse- When was this information told to you, and by who? Our Key card set guidelines our on our set request page and it doesn’t state that information.
HOF and Key Card Sets:
Additions to the HOF and Key Card sets are possible. Every year new HOF inductions are made. In addition, some players may have performed well enough in recent years to warrant addition to All-Time sets. In some cases only one card will qualify for addition to the set. There are some cases where several cards may qualify. In a Key Card set members will be polled for their opinion. The majority vote will determine which card is added. If less than 50% of the members polled respond, then experts at PSA will select the card for addition. Additions to HOF sets requiring a rookie card are updated as requested and in some cases may also require a poll amongst set registrants. If the set requires rookie cards, only the cards which are recognized as official rookie cards for the player will be accepted. A list of these cards can be found in the Ultimate Rookie Card Encyclopedia. In the rookie sets, multiple cards may be accepted for each player. In the case in which a HOFer does not have a rookie and or popular/mainstream issue card, this player will not be included in the HOF Team and Key Card sets which require a specific card. HOF sets that allow any card for a particular player will be updated as new inductions are made and brought to our attention.
I forget all the particulars - Can anyone give better specifics to Ashley Maciel?
" If the set requires rookie cards, only the cards which are recognized as official rookie cards for the player will be accepted. A list of these cards can be found in the Ultimate Rookie Card Encyclopedia"
...This book was produced in 2006, if true no Antonio Brown cards are allowed...lol
Good job PSA!
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Here is the old one....Posted by BJ Searls in July of 2006..PSA essentially declined to list the individually numbered standard, because they wanted to treat each set on its own merits... /999 was the initial number they unofficially agreed to use, but the policing of that was on us, the collectors...Herein lies the reason I stopped collecting the set..As the future moves forward, there are no standards on what can be added..Its going to end up being up to the preference of the person making the request..And thats why it changed from us doing it once per year based on agreements among us here..New collectors came in who wanted the cards they wanted and didnt want to hear from the group on it...
All we can hope for is that the votes go the most logical way...Otherwise, youll eventually have a case where the set will take multiple cards of each player..basically whatever people request or want they will do...
"HOF and Key Card Sets:
Additions to the HOF and Key Card sets are possible.
Every year new HOF inductions are made. In addition,
some players may have performed well enough in recent
years to warrant addition to All-Time sets. In some
cases only one card will qualify for addition to the
set. In some cases, several cards may qualify and
members participating in the set will be polled for
their opinion. The majority vote will determine which
card is added. If less than 50% of the members polled
respond, then experts at PSA will select the card for
addition. If a rookie card is to be added, the card
selected must be considered one of the most popular
and no autographed, jersey or insert cards will
qualify."
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Looks like this is an old guard (collectors and PSA Personnel) vs new guard. I am old guard just like bill, joe, jason and andy ect. Since I really don't collect newer cards I like a "tight ship" where I need to worry about buying only the card for he registry. It was usually a card based on predictable measures. Such as production #'s >999, no autos, refractors, die-cuts and was generally considered the most valuable with all the restrictions applied.
Cosetta is a queen to us old guys. She knew the above and worked with us. We all communicated and the majority ruled. I may not have agreed upon all decisions but that is what keeps order. For years Topps Chrome was chosen as the card to have. Now they are gone. Cards are changing. IMO it is now even more important to have the order
to keep everyone happy.
Although I have a decent knowledge of FB I'll ride in the rumble seat to the above guys mentioned. So vote yes to jaoby for 2 reasons: 1) his career is over and all the info needed to evaluate his HOF potential is complete.
2) the majority of the guys whos opinions I respect said yes and reinforces my opinion.
In general I vote no to all requestes that have a specific card attached to the vote and/or was not discussed here first. Mark my voted the same as A.M. please. However add a remove for Eli. I know that vote means didly but I will sleep better tonight.
_To me Eli _is the modern Anti-Namath.
Many who actually saw Namath's whole career have little doubt about his HOF worthiness and don't marvel at his stats. Those that never saw him play marvel at his stats and say he is a HOF mistake.
To me Eli is a slightly better than average QB who gets 2 bonus games to exemplify his whole career. I saw him play and never once thought of him as a HOFer. Yes he has played some good games. He's not done so he has plenty of time for me to change my mind. I tend to think of a HOFer as not a numbers accumulator buy a guy who's play can drop your jaw. Brady and Rodgers do that to me not Eli.
In all of sports this is my fav time of the year.......can't wait for the HOF announcement and watch the game.
Pats by 10
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
This may be the wrong forum....but I just picked up 2 boxes of 91 Pro Set II looking for gradeable Favre RCs. Is there anyone here looking for anything out of these?....lmk
@jay0791 said:
Looks like this is an old guard (collectors and PSA Personnel) vs new guard. I am old guard just like bill, joe, jason and andy ect. Since I really don't collect newer cards I like a "tight ship" where I need to worry about buying only the card for he registry. It was usually a card based on predictable measures. Such as production #'s >999, no autos, refractors, die-cuts and was generally considered the most valuable with all the restrictions applied.
Cosetta is a queen to us old guys. She knew the above and worked with us. We all communicated and the majority ruled. I may not have agreed upon all decisions but that is what keeps order. For years Topps Chrome was chosen as the card to have. Now they are gone. Cards are changing. IMO it is now even more important to have the order
to keep everyone happy.
Although I have a decent knowledge of FB I'll ride in the rumble seat to the above guys mentioned. So vote yes to jaoby for 2 reasons: 1) his career is over and all the info needed to evaluate his HOF potential is complete.
2) the majority of the guys whos opinions I respect said yes and reinforces my opinion.
In general I vote no to all requestes that have a specific card attached to the vote and/or was not discussed here first. Mark my voted the same as A.M. please. However add a remove for Eli. I know that vote means didly but I will sleep better tonight.
_To me Eli _is the modern Anti-Namath.
Many who actually saw Namath's whole career have little doubt about his HOF worthiness and don't marvel at his stats. Those that never saw him play marvel at his stats and say he is a HOF mistake.
To me Eli is a slightly better than average QB who gets 2 bonus games to exemplify his whole career. I saw him play and never once thought of him as a HOFer. Yes he has played some good games. He's not done so he has plenty of time for me to change my mind. I tend to think of a HOFer as not a numbers accumulator buy a guy who's play can drop your jaw. Brady and Rodgers do that to me not Eli.
In all of sports this is my fav time of the year.......can't wait for the HOF announcement and watch the game.
Pats by 10
Absolutely dead on with your assessments of both Namath and Eli. I saw both play, and though I hated Namath because I'm a Giants fan, he was one of those guys who just dropped your jaw when you watched him.
@JasP24 said:
Giants and Steelers Offensive Pro Bowlers since Eli and Ben came into the league in 2004:
Steelers: Jerome Bettis-RB, Marvel Smith-OT, Alan Faneca-OG , Jeff Hartings-C, Hines Ward-WR, Willie Parker-RB, Heath Miller-TE, Maurkice Pouncey-C, Mike Wallace-WR, Antonio Brown-WR, LeVeon Bell-RB, David DeCastro-OG
Giants: Tiki Barber-RB, Jeremy Shockey-TE, David Tyree-WR, Shaun O-Hara-C, Chris Snee-OG, David Diehl-OT, Steve Smith-WR, Victor Cruz-WR, Odell Beckham-WR
Steelers 12 Offensive Pro Bowlers, Giants 9
IMO, this doesnt support the argument that the Steelers had much better players around Ben then Eli had...Not enough to explain the rather large differential in the regular season numbers.
With all due respect, I disagree. None of those Giants offensive players are going to the HOF. Hines Ward and Alan Faneca are. Tyree went in on special teams. He got one good year out of Steve Smith before he got hurt. And you forgot to take in to account the total number of pro bowl appearances. Other than Tiki and Shockey, I don't think there was more than one appearance by the others. You don't think the Steelers had the better teams? Look at total play off appearances.
Final thoughts on PFHOF Class of 2017...Here are my picks...
LaDanian Tomlinson
Terrell Owens
Kurt Warner
John Lynch
Don Coryell
Fairly confident on the top 4, the 5th spot seems to be pretty up for grabs...If its not Coryell, would look for itto be one of these few guys:
Terrell Davis...Very close last year, voters may argue that he belongs just as much as Tomlinson and put them in together.
Joe Jacoby..Still think 2018 will be his year, but if they go OL, Jacoby seems to be the favorite from last year (made cut to 10)
Tony Boselli...First wildcard...Ive heard multiple voters saying they think Boselli was a much better player than Jacoby..If they both make the cut to 10, Boselli could have the momentum
Ty Law...The Patriot affect, but would be tough to get that many votes on two DBs..Assuming Lynch goes in.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Be a pretty sad commentary for the set if Boselli, Law or Jacoby gets elected as a modern candidate but isnt on the future HOFer set...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Some of our old Modern poll voting...Anyone with better than 50% got submitted to PSA...
2008--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Running Tally-- Total voters : 13
Alan Faneca, OG- 12
Walter Jones, OT- 12
Randy Moss, WR- 12
Terrell Owens, WR- 10
Warren Sapp, DT- 8
Ruben Brown, OG- 7
Brian Dawkins, FS- 4
Jason Taylor, DE- 3
Kevin Mawae, OC- 0
Randy Gradishar, LB- 10
Ken Stabler, QB- 9
Andre Tippett, LB- 7
Fred Dean, DE- 4
Ken Anderson, QB- 2
Donnie Shell, SS- 0
Charles Haley, DE- 4
Cortez Kennedy, DT- 3
Joe Jacoby, OT- 2
Steve Tasker, ST- 1
Rickey Jackson, LB- 1
2009------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Set Changes
TOTAL VOTERS: 21
ADD:
Ed Reed-20
Brian Dawkins-19
Charles Haley-17
Cortez Kennedy-17
Steve Hutchinson-12
Kevin Mawae-12
Chris Doleman-11
Jason Taylor-11
Edgerrin James-7
Steve Tasker-5
Joe Jacoby-5
Kurt Warner-3
Ronde Barber-1
Kevin Williams-1
Donovan McNabb-1
REMOVE:
Steve At-water-9
Jimmy Smith-6
Terrell Davis-4
LeRoy Butler-3
Add-
Charles Woodson-14
Antonio Gates-13
Kevin Williams-12
Roger Craig-8
Rickey Jackson-7
Hines Ward-6
Joe Jacoby-5
Edgerrin James-5
Jason Witten-4
Steve Tasker-3
Shane Lechler-2
Chris Samuels-1
Subtract-
Steve At-water-6
Lester Hayes-1
Leroy Butler-1
Jimmy Smith-1
Terrell Davis-1
2011----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Tally:
Total Voters: 17
ADD:
Troy Polamalu-16
Dwight Freeney-15
Drew Brees-14
Richard Seymour-14
Kevin Greene-13
Julius Peppers-13
Hines Ward-13
Ben Roethlisberger-12
Edgerrin James-11
Jason Witten-9
Ty Law-8
Reggie Wayne-8
Steve Tasker-4
Joe Jacoby-3
Donnie Shell-2
Donovan McNabb-2
Chad Ochocinco-1
Ken Anderson-1
SUBTRACT:
Steve At-water-5
LeRoy Butler-5
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@JasP24 said:
Giants and Steelers Offensive Pro Bowlers since Eli and Ben came into the league in 2004:
Steelers: Jerome Bettis-RB, Marvel Smith-OT, Alan Faneca-OG , Jeff Hartings-C, Hines Ward-WR, Willie Parker-RB, Heath Miller-TE, Maurkice Pouncey-C, Mike Wallace-WR, Antonio Brown-WR, LeVeon Bell-RB, David DeCastro-OG
Giants: Tiki Barber-RB, Jeremy Shockey-TE, David Tyree-WR, Shaun O-Hara-C, Chris Snee-OG, David Diehl-OT, Steve Smith-WR, Victor Cruz-WR, Odell Beckham-WR
Steelers 12 Offensive Pro Bowlers, Giants 9
IMO, this doesnt support the argument that the Steelers had much better players around Ben then Eli had...Not enough to explain the rather large differential in the regular season numbers.
With all due respect, I disagree. None of those Giants offensive players are going to the HOF. Hines Ward and Alan Faneca are. Tyree went in on special teams. He got one good year out of Steve Smith before he got hurt. And you forgot to take in to account the total number of pro bowl appearances. Other than Tiki and Shockey, I don't think there was more than one appearance by the others. You don't think the Steelers had the better teams? Look at total play off appearances.
I didnt say the Steelers didnt have a better team, as I think they did all around. They also had a better QB.
My quote was "this doesnt support the argument that the Steelers had much better players around Ben then Eli had...Not enough to explain the rather large differential in the regular season numbers."
By seeing the number of players each team had who were Pro Bowl quality, the Steelers have more and were better. But with 9 Pro Bowl players on Offense during Eli's tenure, he had sufficient talent around him. A 12-9 difference doesn't not make up for the disparity in the numbers. Eli simply wasn't and isn't a GREAT regular season QB...Is being a GREAT Super Bowl QB on 2 occasions enough to make him a HOFer? I think it will get him in the conversation, but he needs to retire with some monster regular season numbers or another Super Bowl to have better than 50% odds IMO>
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Modern Era Final 5. Have to assume all 5 going in to HOF
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
2 RBs- surprising
Jason Taylor 1st ballot- surprising
Next year going to be very interesting now
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Boselli and Ty Law both made the cut to 10. That puts them around 90% HOF odds. Probably even higher for Law in only his 3rd year eligible.
They both need to be added to the Future HOFer set ASAP!
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@JasP24 said:
Boselli and Ty Law both made the cut to 10. That puts them around 90% HOF odds. Probably even higher for Law in only his 3rd year eligible.
They both need to be added to the Future HOFer set ASAP!
What was the final 10?
I have no problem with anyone that got in, but I think it's silly that T.O. has now twice missed the cut. With Moss eligible next year, that could push Owens back even more. Speaking of 2018, my predictions:
Urlacher
Moss
Lewis
Owens
Jacoby
Three first-ballot guys. I won't even venture a guess on the Senior selection(s).
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
With Morten Andersen getting in, does that close out the HOF rookies from the '84 Topps set? Andersen makes 11, which breaks the tie with '89 Score.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Ridiculous. One thing you CAN'T say about him is that he wasn't dominant for a long time. These voters are making fools of themselves.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Owens not in and Moss coming next year so I don't know what the voters are thinking in their votes.
Not ready to plug my 2018 guys yet. I will analyze on Monday or so when I return home and try to see how the votes stacked up and weigh the probabilities. Off the top of my head i believe Jacoby may be out of the running going into his last year. I had him slotted as a 2018 guy for a few years now but being leapfrogged by Boselli along with TD getting in doesn't bode well for Jacoby at all.
Owens and Moss. 2 WR going in with 2 LB after a year with 2 RB. I don't believe there is any precedent for that.
Lynch or Dawkins will have very high odds next year. Lewis the only 100% guy. Would put Moss and Urlacher around 90% next year. Lynch or Dawkins around 80%.
Then as per usual 5th spot will be up for grabs. With one of the linemen either Boselli, Mawae, Hutchinson, Faneca or Jacoby being the lead guys. Odds would be a 2nd offensive player if Lewis Urlacher and Lynch/Dawkins go.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm okay with the players, but not Jerry Jones!
The offensive ROY was a joke too - Elliott/OL responsible for Prescott's successes. Saw in the playoff what Dak can or cannot do.
I agree with Bill. The resurgence of the Cowboys was predominately due to the uplifting personality of Elliott.
He inspired a QB lost dead team to rise up. His talents were a model for everyone else to follow. It seems like he always had an extra 1-2 yard/carry after he was stopped. Prescott was also great for a rookie. Having a top rusher to take the pressure off and the best OL so he didn't have to run for his life allowed him to rise to the occasion.
Thank these 2 for the coach of the year award as well. Jerry Jones HOF ? Hall of Flatulence ya mean !!!!
A little surprised Morten Anderson got in. Wonder if this opens the door for more special team players?
Not saying he wasn't worthy.
Happy TD got in. As a Raider fan nice to see K Mack get DPOY. He's a beast. His chances wet up with Watt and Kuechly out.
Overall and nice group this year.
I don't know about anyone else but the awards MC wasn't very funny. TV cameras would home in on select people laughing but didn't notice too many others.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Holy s%#t what a game. Hearts go out to Falcons' fans;, but WOW! Super happy to own a Brady SP in a 9, wish I would have bought 10 2-3 years ago. Congrats Pats fans
Brady jumps Peyton on my all time great list. Going to have consider putting him ahead of Montana as well. Wow
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
What a flip flop.
Falcons looked unstoppable and Brady was off and his receivers had dropitis in 1st half and start of 2nd.
You could see the defeated look in close-ups of Brady and the Pats players eyes.
The commentators said in NFL history teams with a 25 point lead at halftime were 93-0.
Then a true champion takes over. The whole team was regenerated. The catch by Edelman when it was really needed....wow.
I have to agree with Jason as I thought Montana was the cat's meow...Brady has surged to the very top of my list.
The Pats RB Lewis is a local kid. Went to Albany academy so nice for him as well.
Apparently Brady's game worn jersey has been stolen from the locker room.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Went through some information, and now will throw out my WAY TOO EARLY Class of 2018 HOF Predictions..
My class:
Ray Lewis
Randy Moss
Brian Urlacher
John Lynch
Tony Boselli
I believe we will get 3 first ballot guys, Lewis the only 100% guy, but I dont get the feel that the committee will do to Moss what they've been doing to T.O. Having Moss go in over T.O. will just be one more dagger before they finally elected Owens in 2019.
There are only 2 times in recent modern candidate history that the voters put two guy from the same position in, then followed it up the next year with another 2 guys at the same position.
2005-2006 they put 2 QBs in each class
2012-2013 they put 2 OL in each class
That being said, I do believe that will happen in 2018 with Lewis and Urlacher...But if Urlacher misses on first ballot, this will be much of the reasoning. This all but eliminates the odds of Moss AND Owens going in together...For that to happen, Urlacher will need to get snubbed, which I cant imagine he will get snubbed by Owens when Owens has never even made the cut to 10. If Urlacher doesnt get the spot, IMO it goes to Richard Seymour or Coryell, and I just dont see it happening at this point.
Now on to the Jacoby conundrum..Jacoby did not make the cut to 10 this year after making it last year. This has only happened 3 times in recent history...And only 1 of those 3 made the HOF.
Bub Kuechenberg
2005- Top 15, Did not make the initial cutdown
2006- Cut to Final 8
2007-Top 15, Did not make the initial cutdown
2008- Cut to top 10
2009- Top 15, Did not make the initial cutdown
2009 was his final year of modern eligibility, and he has still not been elected
LC Greenwood
2005- Cut to Final 8
2006- Top 15, Did not make the initial cutdown
2006 was his final year of eligibility and he has still not been elected
Cris Carter
2008- Cut to 10
2009- Cut to 10
2010-Top 15, Did not make the initial cutdown
2011-Top 15, Did not make the initial cutdown
2012- Cut to 10
2013- Elected to HOF
Based on this, it is my opinion that Joe Jacoby will NOT be elected to the HOF as a modern candidate. It seems fairly obvious that he did not compare well to Boselli this year, and I'm not sure how he realistically will next year. Kuechenberg was MUCH closer to election for a longer period and they still didn't use his final year to push him. It would take something similar to what happened with Tim Brown, who didnt make the cut to 10 in 2014, while Marvin Harrison did...Then in 2015, Tim Brown was elected to the HOF while Harrison was still stuck in the 11-15 group...Not impossible, but unlikely IMO.
Could be Lynch or Dawkins in next year, but odds favors the guy who has made the cut to 10 two years in a row, John Lynch.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
So...its looking like Prizm is the card the registry is using for Elliott for the Annual Rushing Leaders set. Which is fine by me, and what I expected. Not sure how this will translate into other sets, and for the other 2016 rookies, but im just glad they didnt use Optic as im not a big fan of the card design.
I agree that Lewis is very likely to be a first-ballot HOF'er. I guess being a murderer is less of a crime in the eyes of the voters than being a diva.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
@shagrotn77 said:
I agree that Lewis is very likely to be a first-ballot HOF'er. I guess being a murderer is less of a crime in the eyes of the voters than being a diva.
Here is a good read on Owens and why he hasn't been elected yet...Voters, both last year and this year have agreed what happens outside of the sport isn't taken into account, but what happens in the locker room IS...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@shagrotn77 said:
I agree that Lewis is very likely to be a first-ballot HOF'er. I guess being a murderer is less of a crime in the eyes of the voters than being a diva.
Here is a good read on Owens and why he hasn't been elected yet...Voters, both last year and this year have agreed what happens outside of the sport isn't taken into account, but what happens in the locker room IS...
Best part about that article is that it gives props to my boy Harold Jackson!
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
I know right, I thought you'd get a kick out of that..Credit your way, you've been championing Jacksons' HOF credentials for many years...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Good read on some of the things we've been discussing. Particularly at QB
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
You know, I never realized Harold Jackson had such impressive stats. And Carmichael is almost there too.
Some other food for thought. Jerry Jones? Yet Art Modell gets no love? He was more influential in the development of the NFL than Jerry Jones.
TO vs Randy Moss---2 "head" cases . The writers may jerk both these guys around for some time just to be spiteful.
And is Joe Jacoby destined to be the 80's version of the 60s Jerry Kramer and the 70s Bob Kuechenberg?
One other thought----how overlooked is Ken Anderson?
As for the SB, Atlanta's defense was gassed. Kyle Shanahan should have been running the ball more to keep them off the field, especially after Julio Jones catch on the 20. Poor coaching, not unlike bypassing Marshawn Lynch on the 1 yd line several years ago. A more conservative approach could have prevented both losses.
Best part about that article is that it gives props to my boy Harold Jackson!
I've said for a long time that WRs from the '70's and early '80's are very underrepresented in the HOF. I won't make a full list but Harold is definitely on it.
WR and LB are the two deepest positions in the Senior Pool...OG a close 3rd...
QB...Ken Anderson and Charlie Conerly
RB..I dont see anyone with a strong case
WR...Dilweg, Speedie, Shofner, Otis Taylor, Drew Pearson, Cliff Branch, Harold Jackson
TE...IMO, no one
OG..Kramer, Kuechenberg, Jim McMillen, Ox Emerson, Riley Matheson, Dick Barwegan
OT..Wistert, Duke Slater, Jim Tyrer
DE-Greenwood, Jim Marshall
DT- Lipscomb, Karras
LB...Howley, Baughan, Curtis, Nobis, Jordan, Gradishar, Brazile
CB...Meador, Bobby Dillon, Lester Hayes
S...Johnny Robinson, Jimmy Patton, Cliff Harris, Shell
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
No, there was no particular order...A couple I was listing somewhat by decade, and others by memory...lol
Agree on games played..I've somewhat adjusted my personal standards from 100 games to 80 games for especially dominant players...This moves guys like J.J. Watt from needs more time to HOFer if he retired today status..
As for the old timers, the low games played really has only ever mattered for guys who's careers ended after 1960..Shofner has 125 games played and retired in 67, so that's not what has been keeping him out. Honestly not sure what is, although Dilweg would be my first choice at Senior WR, followed probably by Speedie and Pearson...Otis Taylor has been the closest of them all, making the final 5 seniors a couple of times in the past decade.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Comments
I have Future HOF sets registered for all 4 sports, and the requests over the last couple of years have been largely ridiculous. I don't know if it's clueless collectors, people trying to find a set to fit their cards in, or dudes trying to inflate the value of a card by having it added to a set, but I wish it would stop. Part of the problem is that a player should be added to a set BEFORE his card is chosen for it. Otherwise we not only have undeserving players nominated, but the wrong cards to boot. Ughhh.
1000% agree...I tried many years ago to get PSA to stick with a specific process on adding cards to the Key card and future HOF sets...It worked for a little while with Cosetta, where we would discuss the player and then the card here, vote, decide, then send it to her. It was a once per year process. Somewhere along the line, since there was never anything put in writing on the process, a collector or two complained and wanted their guy, their card added...The Registry folks caved to their complaints and a few years later you see where it has gotten us...
I gave up on it and figured will just vote my vote when it comes up and let the chips fall where they may...I sold off and quit collecting most of the sets the more ridiculous they got...At one point adding Brett Favre to the All Decade Team of the 1990s...lol
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
JP, do you think the Patriots being in the Super Bowl (Ty Law) or John Lynch being named 49ers GM will have any impact on their HOF voting this year? I know it shouldn't, but we've seen things like that factor in before.
It has definitely helped candidates in the past, no doubt about it...I think Lynch was/is getting in regardless of the GM position. I base that off of him reaching the final 10 last year and remaining as the top defensive player on the board, although Dawkins could conceivably steal some votes...
For Ty Law to get in, it would mean going from semifinalist/nominee the year prior to HOF inductee the following year. Rare occurrence with only one case I can find since 2004...
Rickey Jackson in 2010...Same year the Saints were in a Super Bowl, Jackson had never been a finalist, only a semifinalist
So there is precedent...On the Defensive side, Jackson had to leapfrog both Richard Dent and Cortez Kennedy....In Law's case he will need to leapfrog Lynch..So IMO, it is probably a low odds opportunity for him, maybe 30%, but if anyone is going to longshot to take a spot this year it is Ty Law.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Just to add to the above...Law, Isaac Bruce and Mawae making the final 15 in their 3rd year of eligibility puts their ultimate HOF odds closer to 80%...Very few who made the top 15 that quickly who are not in the HOF. Only recent case being LC Greenwood.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
So I'm pretty confused on the process. I recently got a request on the All-Time Lakers set to add AC Green. Crazy right? Big part of Showtime era, but c'mon. Fortunately it was rejected. In that case the card was clear, 87F, so no real say on card selection.
When Woodson was added to Cowboys Ring of Honor, we actually got a vote on the card to be added since he has multiple RCs.
So...I'm confused on some of the requested additions. Should it not be two votes? One as to whether or not to add the player, and if so, another for which card to add?
It seems a single requester is specifying the card for a particular player, and that seems wrong. My own personal axe, but it seems like this is the type of stuff that gets the Pacific card chosen for Warner. And then once selected it can't be changed.
There should be a defined process, but maybe that's the Operations guy in me.
Vent complete.
Aside from Pacific, what would be Warner's most valuable rookie card that meets PSA's criteria for inclusion in the set (at least 999 made, no auto, no refractor/parallel)? I'm not advocating that we change it. Just curious.
I questioned set registry people on the Antonio Brown and got following:
Me - In past any card had to be numbered 999 or more qualify - did this change recently? Cards numbered less or with autograph were not allowed.
Reponse- When was this information told to you, and by who? Our Key card set guidelines our on our set request page and it doesn’t state that information.
HOF and Key Card Sets:
Additions to the HOF and Key Card sets are possible. Every year new HOF inductions are made. In addition, some players may have performed well enough in recent years to warrant addition to All-Time sets. In some cases only one card will qualify for addition to the set. There are some cases where several cards may qualify. In a Key Card set members will be polled for their opinion. The majority vote will determine which card is added. If less than 50% of the members polled respond, then experts at PSA will select the card for addition. Additions to HOF sets requiring a rookie card are updated as requested and in some cases may also require a poll amongst set registrants. If the set requires rookie cards, only the cards which are recognized as official rookie cards for the player will be accepted. A list of these cards can be found in the Ultimate Rookie Card Encyclopedia. In the rookie sets, multiple cards may be accepted for each player. In the case in which a HOFer does not have a rookie and or popular/mainstream issue card, this player will not be included in the HOF Team and Key Card sets which require a specific card. HOF sets that allow any card for a particular player will be updated as new inductions are made and brought to our attention.
I forget all the particulars - Can anyone give better specifics to Ashley Maciel?
Bill
" If the set requires rookie cards, only the cards which are recognized as official rookie cards for the player will be accepted. A list of these cards can be found in the Ultimate Rookie Card Encyclopedia"
...This book was produced in 2006, if true no Antonio Brown cards are allowed...lol
Good job PSA!
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Here is the old one....Posted by BJ Searls in July of 2006..PSA essentially declined to list the individually numbered standard, because they wanted to treat each set on its own merits... /999 was the initial number they unofficially agreed to use, but the policing of that was on us, the collectors...Herein lies the reason I stopped collecting the set..As the future moves forward, there are no standards on what can be added..Its going to end up being up to the preference of the person making the request..And thats why it changed from us doing it once per year based on agreements among us here..New collectors came in who wanted the cards they wanted and didnt want to hear from the group on it...
All we can hope for is that the votes go the most logical way...Otherwise, youll eventually have a case where the set will take multiple cards of each player..basically whatever people request or want they will do...
"HOF and Key Card Sets:
Additions to the HOF and Key Card sets are possible.
Every year new HOF inductions are made. In addition,
some players may have performed well enough in recent
years to warrant addition to All-Time sets. In some
cases only one card will qualify for addition to the
set. In some cases, several cards may qualify and
members participating in the set will be polled for
their opinion. The majority vote will determine which
card is added. If less than 50% of the members polled
respond, then experts at PSA will select the card for
addition. If a rookie card is to be added, the card
selected must be considered one of the most popular
and no autographed, jersey or insert cards will
qualify."
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Looks like this is an old guard (collectors and PSA Personnel) vs new guard. I am old guard just like bill, joe, jason and andy ect. Since I really don't collect newer cards I like a "tight ship" where I need to worry about buying only the card for he registry. It was usually a card based on predictable measures. Such as production #'s >999, no autos, refractors, die-cuts and was generally considered the most valuable with all the restrictions applied.
Cosetta is a queen to us old guys. She knew the above and worked with us. We all communicated and the majority ruled. I may not have agreed upon all decisions but that is what keeps order. For years Topps Chrome was chosen as the card to have. Now they are gone. Cards are changing. IMO it is now even more important to have the order
to keep everyone happy.
Although I have a decent knowledge of FB I'll ride in the rumble seat to the above guys mentioned. So vote yes to jaoby for 2 reasons: 1) his career is over and all the info needed to evaluate his HOF potential is complete.
2) the majority of the guys whos opinions I respect said yes and reinforces my opinion.
In general I vote no to all requestes that have a specific card attached to the vote and/or was not discussed here first. Mark my voted the same as A.M. please. However add a remove for Eli. I know that vote means didly but I will sleep better tonight.
_To me Eli _is the modern Anti-Namath.
Many who actually saw Namath's whole career have little doubt about his HOF worthiness and don't marvel at his stats. Those that never saw him play marvel at his stats and say he is a HOF mistake.
To me Eli is a slightly better than average QB who gets 2 bonus games to exemplify his whole career. I saw him play and never once thought of him as a HOFer. Yes he has played some good games. He's not done so he has plenty of time for me to change my mind. I tend to think of a HOFer as not a numbers accumulator buy a guy who's play can drop your jaw. Brady and Rodgers do that to me not Eli.
In all of sports this is my fav time of the year.......can't wait for the HOF announcement and watch the game.
Pats by 10
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
This may be the wrong forum....but I just picked up 2 boxes of 91 Pro Set II looking for gradeable Favre RCs. Is there anyone here looking for anything out of these?....lmk
With all due respect, I disagree. None of those Giants offensive players are going to the HOF. Hines Ward and Alan Faneca are. Tyree went in on special teams. He got one good year out of Steve Smith before he got hurt. And you forgot to take in to account the total number of pro bowl appearances. Other than Tiki and Shockey, I don't think there was more than one appearance by the others. You don't think the Steelers had the better teams? Look at total play off appearances.
Final thoughts on PFHOF Class of 2017...Here are my picks...
LaDanian Tomlinson
Terrell Owens
Kurt Warner
John Lynch
Don Coryell
Fairly confident on the top 4, the 5th spot seems to be pretty up for grabs...If its not Coryell, would look for itto be one of these few guys:
Terrell Davis...Very close last year, voters may argue that he belongs just as much as Tomlinson and put them in together.
Joe Jacoby..Still think 2018 will be his year, but if they go OL, Jacoby seems to be the favorite from last year (made cut to 10)
Tony Boselli...First wildcard...Ive heard multiple voters saying they think Boselli was a much better player than Jacoby..If they both make the cut to 10, Boselli could have the momentum
Ty Law...The Patriot affect, but would be tough to get that many votes on two DBs..Assuming Lynch goes in.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Be a pretty sad commentary for the set if Boselli, Law or Jacoby gets elected as a modern candidate but isnt on the future HOFer set...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Some of our old Modern poll voting...Anyone with better than 50% got submitted to PSA...
2008--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Running Tally-- Total voters : 13
Alan Faneca, OG- 12
Walter Jones, OT- 12
Randy Moss, WR- 12
Terrell Owens, WR- 10
Warren Sapp, DT- 8
Ruben Brown, OG- 7
Brian Dawkins, FS- 4
Jason Taylor, DE- 3
Kevin Mawae, OC- 0
Randy Gradishar, LB- 10
Ken Stabler, QB- 9
Andre Tippett, LB- 7
Fred Dean, DE- 4
Ken Anderson, QB- 2
Donnie Shell, SS- 0
Charles Haley, DE- 4
Cortez Kennedy, DT- 3
Joe Jacoby, OT- 2
Steve Tasker, ST- 1
Rickey Jackson, LB- 1
2009------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Set Changes
TOTAL VOTERS: 21
ADD:
Ed Reed-20
Brian Dawkins-19
Charles Haley-17
Cortez Kennedy-17
Steve Hutchinson-12
Kevin Mawae-12
Chris Doleman-11
Jason Taylor-11
Edgerrin James-7
Steve Tasker-5
Joe Jacoby-5
Kurt Warner-3
Ronde Barber-1
Kevin Williams-1
Donovan McNabb-1
REMOVE:
Steve At-water-9
Jimmy Smith-6
Terrell Davis-4
LeRoy Butler-3
Card Selections
TOTAL VOTERS: 15
Cortez Kennedy
1990 Score Supplemental-14
1990 Fleer Update-1
Ed Reed
2002 Topps Chrome-11
2002 SP Authentic Auto-4
2002 SPX-0
2010---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Running tally...Total voters: 14
Add-
Charles Woodson-14
Antonio Gates-13
Kevin Williams-12
Roger Craig-8
Rickey Jackson-7
Hines Ward-6
Joe Jacoby-5
Edgerrin James-5
Jason Witten-4
Steve Tasker-3
Shane Lechler-2
Chris Samuels-1
Subtract-
Steve At-water-6
Lester Hayes-1
Leroy Butler-1
Jimmy Smith-1
Terrell Davis-1
2011----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Tally:
Total Voters: 17
ADD:
Troy Polamalu-16
Dwight Freeney-15
Drew Brees-14
Richard Seymour-14
Kevin Greene-13
Julius Peppers-13
Hines Ward-13
Ben Roethlisberger-12
Edgerrin James-11
Jason Witten-9
Ty Law-8
Reggie Wayne-8
Steve Tasker-4
Joe Jacoby-3
Donnie Shell-2
Donovan McNabb-2
Chad Ochocinco-1
Ken Anderson-1
SUBTRACT:
Steve At-water-5
LeRoy Butler-5
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I didnt say the Steelers didnt have a better team, as I think they did all around. They also had a better QB.
My quote was "this doesnt support the argument that the Steelers had much better players around Ben then Eli had...Not enough to explain the rather large differential in the regular season numbers."
By seeing the number of players each team had who were Pro Bowl quality, the Steelers have more and were better. But with 9 Pro Bowl players on Offense during Eli's tenure, he had sufficient talent around him. A 12-9 difference doesn't not make up for the disparity in the numbers. Eli simply wasn't and isn't a GREAT regular season QB...Is being a GREAT Super Bowl QB on 2 occasions enough to make him a HOFer? I think it will get him in the conversation, but he needs to retire with some monster regular season numbers or another Super Bowl to have better than 50% odds IMO>
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I know most here do not collect coaches....but does Coryell have a RC?
I know pro set included some in the 90's
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Tomlinson
Warner
Davis
Taylor
Andersen
Modern Era Final 5. Have to assume all 5 going in to HOF
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
2 RBs- surprising
Jason Taylor 1st ballot- surprising
Next year going to be very interesting now
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Boselli and Ty Law both made the cut to 10. That puts them around 90% HOF odds. Probably even higher for Law in only his 3rd year eligible.
They both need to be added to the Future HOFer set ASAP!
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Good class. I'm much happier than I was last year at this time.
What was the final 10?
I have no problem with anyone that got in, but I think it's silly that T.O. has now twice missed the cut. With Moss eligible next year, that could push Owens back even more. Speaking of 2018, my predictions:
Urlacher
Moss
Lewis
Owens
Jacoby
Three first-ballot guys. I won't even venture a guess on the Senior selection(s).
With Morten Andersen getting in, does that close out the HOF rookies from the '84 Topps set? Andersen makes 11, which breaks the tie with '89 Score.
Did Not Make Final 10
Isaac Bruce
Don Coryell
Alan Fanaca,
Joe Jacoby
Terrell Owens.
Made the Final 10, but not the Final 5
Tony Boselli,
Brian Dawkins
John Lynch
Ty Law
Kevin Mawae.
How does TO not make final 10?
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Ridiculous. One thing you CAN'T say about him is that he wasn't dominant for a long time. These voters are making fools of themselves.
Owens not in and Moss coming next year so I don't know what the voters are thinking in their votes.
Not ready to plug my 2018 guys yet. I will analyze on Monday or so when I return home and try to see how the votes stacked up and weigh the probabilities. Off the top of my head i believe Jacoby may be out of the running going into his last year. I had him slotted as a 2018 guy for a few years now but being leapfrogged by Boselli along with TD getting in doesn't bode well for Jacoby at all.
Owens and Moss. 2 WR going in with 2 LB after a year with 2 RB. I don't believe there is any precedent for that.
Lynch or Dawkins will have very high odds next year. Lewis the only 100% guy. Would put Moss and Urlacher around 90% next year. Lynch or Dawkins around 80%.
Then as per usual 5th spot will be up for grabs. With one of the linemen either Boselli, Mawae, Hutchinson, Faneca or Jacoby being the lead guys. Odds would be a 2nd offensive player if Lewis Urlacher and Lynch/Dawkins go.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm okay with the players, but not Jerry Jones!
The offensive ROY was a joke too - Elliott/OL responsible for Prescott's successes. Saw in the playoff what Dak can or cannot do.
I agree with Bill. The resurgence of the Cowboys was predominately due to the uplifting personality of Elliott.
He inspired a QB lost dead team to rise up. His talents were a model for everyone else to follow. It seems like he always had an extra 1-2 yard/carry after he was stopped. Prescott was also great for a rookie. Having a top rusher to take the pressure off and the best OL so he didn't have to run for his life allowed him to rise to the occasion.
Thank these 2 for the coach of the year award as well. Jerry Jones HOF ? Hall of Flatulence ya mean !!!!
A little surprised Morten Anderson got in. Wonder if this opens the door for more special team players?
Not saying he wasn't worthy.
Happy TD got in. As a Raider fan nice to see K Mack get DPOY. He's a beast. His chances wet up with Watt and Kuechly out.
Overall and nice group this year.
I don't know about anyone else but the awards MC wasn't very funny. TV cameras would home in on select people laughing but didn't notice too many others.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
'> @shagrotn77 said:
Two incredible sets in terms of the number of HOFers to be sure. I think each has a few more possibilities, but they are long shots.
1984
Chris Hinton
Roger Craig
Deron Cherry
Jim Covert
1989
Steve Wisniewski
Neil Smith
Hardy Nickerson
Steve Atwater
Holy s%#t what a game. Hearts go out to Falcons' fans;, but WOW! Super happy to own a Brady SP in a 9, wish I would have bought 10 2-3 years ago. Congrats Pats fans
I thought Ryan was thisclose to the HOF.
Brady jumps Peyton on my all time great list. Going to have consider putting him ahead of Montana as well. Wow
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
What a flip flop.
Falcons looked unstoppable and Brady was off and his receivers had dropitis in 1st half and start of 2nd.
You could see the defeated look in close-ups of Brady and the Pats players eyes.
The commentators said in NFL history teams with a 25 point lead at halftime were 93-0.
Then a true champion takes over. The whole team was regenerated. The catch by Edelman when it was really needed....wow.
I have to agree with Jason as I thought Montana was the cat's meow...Brady has surged to the very top of my list.
The Pats RB Lewis is a local kid. Went to Albany academy so nice for him as well.
Apparently Brady's game worn jersey has been stolen from the locker room.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Keep an eye on eBay and the auction houses. Lol
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Went through some information, and now will throw out my WAY TOO EARLY Class of 2018 HOF Predictions..
My class:
Ray Lewis
Randy Moss
Brian Urlacher
John Lynch
Tony Boselli
I believe we will get 3 first ballot guys, Lewis the only 100% guy, but I dont get the feel that the committee will do to Moss what they've been doing to T.O. Having Moss go in over T.O. will just be one more dagger before they finally elected Owens in 2019.
There are only 2 times in recent modern candidate history that the voters put two guy from the same position in, then followed it up the next year with another 2 guys at the same position.
2005-2006 they put 2 QBs in each class
2012-2013 they put 2 OL in each class
That being said, I do believe that will happen in 2018 with Lewis and Urlacher...But if Urlacher misses on first ballot, this will be much of the reasoning. This all but eliminates the odds of Moss AND Owens going in together...For that to happen, Urlacher will need to get snubbed, which I cant imagine he will get snubbed by Owens when Owens has never even made the cut to 10. If Urlacher doesnt get the spot, IMO it goes to Richard Seymour or Coryell, and I just dont see it happening at this point.
Now on to the Jacoby conundrum..Jacoby did not make the cut to 10 this year after making it last year. This has only happened 3 times in recent history...And only 1 of those 3 made the HOF.
Bub Kuechenberg
2005- Top 15, Did not make the initial cutdown
2006- Cut to Final 8
2007-Top 15, Did not make the initial cutdown
2008- Cut to top 10
2009- Top 15, Did not make the initial cutdown
2009 was his final year of modern eligibility, and he has still not been elected
LC Greenwood
2005- Cut to Final 8
2006- Top 15, Did not make the initial cutdown
2006 was his final year of eligibility and he has still not been elected
Cris Carter
2008- Cut to 10
2009- Cut to 10
2010-Top 15, Did not make the initial cutdown
2011-Top 15, Did not make the initial cutdown
2012- Cut to 10
2013- Elected to HOF
Based on this, it is my opinion that Joe Jacoby will NOT be elected to the HOF as a modern candidate. It seems fairly obvious that he did not compare well to Boselli this year, and I'm not sure how he realistically will next year. Kuechenberg was MUCH closer to election for a longer period and they still didn't use his final year to push him. It would take something similar to what happened with Tim Brown, who didnt make the cut to 10 in 2014, while Marvin Harrison did...Then in 2015, Tim Brown was elected to the HOF while Harrison was still stuck in the 11-15 group...Not impossible, but unlikely IMO.
Could be Lynch or Dawkins in next year, but odds favors the guy who has made the cut to 10 two years in a row, John Lynch.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
So...its looking like Prizm is the card the registry is using for Elliott for the Annual Rushing Leaders set. Which is fine by me, and what I expected. Not sure how this will translate into other sets, and for the other 2016 rookies, but im just glad they didnt use Optic as im not a big fan of the card design.
I agree that Lewis is very likely to be a first-ballot HOF'er. I guess being a murderer is less of a crime in the eyes of the voters than being a diva.
Here is a good read on Owens and why he hasn't been elected yet...Voters, both last year and this year have agreed what happens outside of the sport isn't taken into account, but what happens in the locker room IS...
http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com/2017/02/terrell-owens-will-be-elected-to-hall.html
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Best part about that article is that it gives props to my boy Harold Jackson!
I know right, I thought you'd get a kick out of that..Credit your way, you've been championing Jacksons' HOF credentials for many years...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18647078
Good read on some of the things we've been discussing. Particularly at QB
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
You know, I never realized Harold Jackson had such impressive stats. And Carmichael is almost there too.
Some other food for thought. Jerry Jones? Yet Art Modell gets no love? He was more influential in the development of the NFL than Jerry Jones.
TO vs Randy Moss---2 "head" cases . The writers may jerk both these guys around for some time just to be spiteful.
And is Joe Jacoby destined to be the 80's version of the 60s Jerry Kramer and the 70s Bob Kuechenberg?
One other thought----how overlooked is Ken Anderson?
As for the SB, Atlanta's defense was gassed. Kyle Shanahan should have been running the ball more to keep them off the field, especially after Julio Jones catch on the 20. Poor coaching, not unlike bypassing Marshawn Lynch on the 1 yd line several years ago. A more conservative approach could have prevented both losses.
I've said for a long time that WRs from the '70's and early '80's are very underrepresented in the HOF. I won't make a full list but Harold is definitely on it.
WR and LB are the two deepest positions in the Senior Pool...OG a close 3rd...
QB...Ken Anderson and Charlie Conerly
RB..I dont see anyone with a strong case
WR...Dilweg, Speedie, Shofner, Otis Taylor, Drew Pearson, Cliff Branch, Harold Jackson
TE...IMO, no one
OG..Kramer, Kuechenberg, Jim McMillen, Ox Emerson, Riley Matheson, Dick Barwegan
OT..Wistert, Duke Slater, Jim Tyrer
DE-Greenwood, Jim Marshall
DT- Lipscomb, Karras
LB...Howley, Baughan, Curtis, Nobis, Jordan, Gradishar, Brazile
CB...Meador, Bobby Dillon, Lester Hayes
S...Johnny Robinson, Jimmy Patton, Cliff Harris, Shell
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason
is the order of your list ranked first to last? per position that is
Will Kramer really get another chance?
Seems like the current selection committee makes the head cases/bad boy wait...will they really put up Tyrer?
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Also
putting in some of these short career guys like TD IMO helps guys like Shofner.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
No, there was no particular order...A couple I was listing somewhat by decade, and others by memory...lol
Agree on games played..I've somewhat adjusted my personal standards from 100 games to 80 games for especially dominant players...This moves guys like J.J. Watt from needs more time to HOFer if he retired today status..
As for the old timers, the low games played really has only ever mattered for guys who's careers ended after 1960..Shofner has 125 games played and retired in 67, so that's not what has been keeping him out. Honestly not sure what is, although Dilweg would be my first choice at Senior WR, followed probably by Speedie and Pearson...Otis Taylor has been the closest of them all, making the final 5 seniors a couple of times in the past decade.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.