With my change of focus collecting I was looking at the HOF sets for baseball. Wow! What hot mess that is. You can use any card from their playing years which leads to just crazy sets. Thanks God we had the decency to lock it down to one card.
<< <i>With my change of focus collecting I was looking at the HOF sets for baseball. Wow! What hot mess that is. You can use any card from their playing years which leads to just crazy sets. Thanks God we had the decency to lock it down to one card. >>
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
The vote on Thomas and Willis was unanimous. However, I don't have either one of the 2007 Topps Chrome cards graded to submit to the set addition. Anybody have these two guys that can be submitted?
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
I see that there are specific cards for the Pre War players but the post war 1948 Leaf vs 1949 Bowman issue kinda stinks for the guy who has the Leaf Paige compared to the Bowman one. In most instances you could get off on the cheap going the Bowman route.
I know I was cranked when someone added the two feltbacks to this set. Did anyone ever fess up to that?
I have an extra 9 of the Willis card, and 5 9s of the Thomas...and an 8. You should be seeing these hit Ebay shortly. I also have 5 more Thomas cards at PSA now. Sold a 10 of the Thomas card for $63 this past summer....hopefully one of these 5 will replace it.
<< <i>Who gets selected to participate in the poll? >>
Registered collectors of the set.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Shouldn't all the registered collectors of the set be polled? >>
To my knowledge, everyone on the set gets the poll. Do you collect the Future HOF Players- Modern set and did not receive the poll? If so, I would e-mail the Registry staff and ask them about it. Would first probably look in your spam folder since they send it mass e-mail sometimes it will filter there.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Morten Andersen Steve At-water Jerome Bettis Tim Brown Isaac Bruce Don Coryell Roger Craig Terrell Davis Tony Dungy Kevin Greene Charles Haley Marvin Harrison Torry Holt Joe Jacoby Edgerrin James Jimmy Johnson Mike Kenn Ty Law John Lynch Kevin Mawae Karl Mecklenburg Orlando Pace Junior Seau Will Shields Kurt Warner Darren Woodson
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Morten Andersen Steve At-water Jerome Bettis Tim Brown Isaac Bruce Don Coryell Roger Craig Terrell Davis Tony Dungy Kevin Greene Charles Haley Marvin Harrison Torry Holt Joe Jacoby Edgerrin James Jimmy Johnson Mike Kenn Ty Law John Lynch Kevin Mawae Karl Mecklenburg Orlando Pace Junior Seau Will Shields Kurt Warner Darren Woodson >>
Was nice to see Woodson get some love. Clearing out the contributors opened it up for guys like him and Mike Kenn, who had never been a semifinalist. Was somewhat surprised to see so many 1st ballot guys. In particular BOTH Holt and Bruce, will be interesting to see if they cancel each other out over the years and/or how quickly they get to the top 15. Here are my top 15 predictions which will be released 8 Jan:
Junior Seau Kurt Warner Marvin Harrison Charles Haley Jerome Bettis
Orlando Pace Will Shields Kevin Greene Tony Dungy Tim Brown John Lynch Kevin Mawae Don Coryell Ty Law Morten Andersen
The top 5 are my "way too early" Class of 2015 predictions...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Not that he will ever make it, but Woodson was one of my favorites. What would be his card to get...similar to the Jimmy Smith? The 1992 Collector's Edge? There is so much junk from that era of cards, it is hard to tell.
Morten Andersen Steve At-water Jerome Bettis Tim Brown Isaac Bruce Don Coryell Roger Craig Terrell Davis Tony Dungy Kevin Greene Charles Haley Marvin Harrison Torry Holt Joe Jacoby Edgerrin James Jimmy Johnson Mike Kenn Ty Law John Lynch Kevin Mawae Karl Mecklenburg Orlando Pace Junior Seau Will Shields Kurt Warner Darren Woodson >>
My Top 5 right now are
Orlando Pace Kurt Warner Marvin Harrison Charles Haley Jerome Bettis
Only reason I removed Seau is the NFL has so much going on with head injuries they don't want this to take over the induction class this year. But, on the same note they sure would love head injury talk instead of AP or Ray Rice in my opinion.
<< <i>Not that he will ever make it, but Woodson was one of my favorites. What would be his card to get...similar to the Jimmy Smith? The 1992 Collector's Edge? There is so much junk from that era of cards, it is hard to tell. >>
I imagine it would be 1992 Stadium Club as that is the card that's used in the All-Time Cowboys set.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>I imagine it would be 1992 Stadium Club as that is the card that's used in the All-Time Cowboys set. >>
Perfect. Thanks.
Also, just to throw it out there....anyone have a PSA 9 or better 1983 Joe Jacoby or 1981 Mike Kenn? I hate when the surprise player gets in and we are all scrambling to find the same card at once.
Keep in mind, they removed contributors from the equation this year...DeBartolo, Tagliabue, George Young, plus the 5 HOF selections from last year all missing from this years list of eligibles. That plus the extra guy (due to voting tie) somewhat explains the surprises this year.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Only reason I removed Seau is the NFL has so much going on with head injuries they don't want this to take over the induction class this year. But, on the same note they sure would love head injury talk instead of AP or Ray Rice in my opinion. >>
Seau is the only 100% lock on the ballot this year. Absolutely no chance he gets bypassed. It would completely invalidate the HOF voting process. I definitely get where you are coming from, but he was simply too good of a player for them to bypass for media reasons. The backlash of keeping him out would be MUCH MUCH worse. If it were a more marginal/borderline candidate? Sure.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I would think Orlando Pace would be a lock. Maybe Harrison. >>
Harrison should have been a lock last year. Then again, I thought the same about Cris Carter when he was first eligible, and the voters made him wait 6 years before he finally got the nod. While I think Harrison will get in this year, I can't say I'd be shocked if Tim Brown made it instead. The voters do funny things when it comes to receivers. As for Pace, I know he's getting a lot of love, for me he didn't do it long enough to go in first ballot. A mere 3 All Pro nods just isn't that impressive for a would-be first-ballot offensive lineman.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Agree, tough to call anyone a lock who got bypassed last year (Harrison). Harrison made the cut to 10 last year, Tim Brown did not. So it would appear he has more support than Brown. The voters finally put Andre Reed in, which should clear the way for Harrison. Would be fairly surprising to see Brown leapfrog him at this point, but could however see both of them miss the top 5 again. I'd give Harrison about an 80% shot this year, Brown 10%. Neither locks.
Pace could get in for sure, but I think he's got a tough road. He wasn't quite as dominant as Walter Jones, who went in last year. He also wasn't quite on the level of Jon Ogden who went in the year before. We also had Willie Roaf go in as a Tackle 3 years ago...So 3 straight seasons with an offensive tackle. Meanwhile, offensive guard Will Shields has been a finalist all 3 of those years, and even made the cut to 10 last year. So IMO, Pace has a bit of a tougher sell and too many obstacles to get over before calling him a lock. Just my opinion. I'd give Pace about 40% chance of getting in. I think he will make the cutdown to the final 10 along with Will Shields, but I think the voters will go with a 2nd defensive guy (my guess is Haley) as well as more skill position players. The past 3 classes have had only ONE skill position guy in each class. At some point they will get back to having 2-3 skill position players, and this looks like a strong year to do just that. I see Pace going in with the Class of 2017, after Shields goes in 2016.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason, what are your thoughts on Kevin Mawae? I had written him off as a potential HOF'er, but I'm starting to re-think that. I know he's not getting in this year, but do you think he has a strong chance to eventually get elected?
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>Jason, what are your thoughts on Kevin Mawae? I had written him off as a potential HOF'er, but I'm starting to re-think that. I know he's not getting in this year, but do you think he has a strong chance to eventually get elected? >>
Absolutely he does...I have him making the top 15 finalists this year as the 2nd best interior lineman eligible (and #1 Center). His resume speaks for itself. Starting Center on the 2000's NFL Team of the Decade. He's going to wait a bit, no doubt..Maybe 5-10 year range but should almost certainly get in at some point.
Will be interesting to see where he lands this year...If he does in fact make the top 15, expect his enshrinement to be closer to the 5-6 year range..If he doesn't, then maybe closer to 10. You've got Faneca eligible in 2016, Steve Hutchinson in 2018, both Interior Linemen. How he stacks against those 2 will likely determine his timeline. I have him getting in after Shields and Faneca, but before Hutchinson.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I have him projected to go in second year of eligibility(2017). Mostly depends on Shields, as I do not believe Faneca will leapfrog him. If Shields goes in this year, then Faneca's chances to go in first ballot will greatly increase. They most certainly won't select two O-Guards to go in the same year either. 2016 and 2017 Classes are fairly weak when it comes to first year eligibles. On the flipside, 2018 and 2019 are looking mighty crowded at the top already.
My prediction is Shields in 2016, Faneca 2017.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Seau is the only 100% lock on the ballot this year. Absolutely no chance he gets bypassed. It would completely invalidate the HOF voting process. I definitely get where you are coming from, but he was simply too good of a player for them to bypass for media reasons. The backlash of keeping him out would be MUCH MUCH worse. If it were a more marginal/borderline candidate? Sure. >>
Well, if they do not put him in and the backlash would actually put the process in question which would not be a bad thing. I think the process needs a good revamp anyhow.
Seau is the only 100% lock on the ballot this year. Absolutely no chance he gets bypassed. It would completely invalidate the HOF voting process. I definitely get where you are coming from, but he was simply too good of a player for them to bypass for media reasons. The backlash of keeping him out would be MUCH MUCH worse. If it were a more marginal/borderline candidate? Sure. >>
Well, if they do not put him in and the backlash would actually put the process in question which would not be a bad thing. I think the process needs a good revamp anyhow. >>
Fair point, but I doubt the current voters (media members) are interested in making themselves look like fools. lol
The process was just re-vamped with the move to have contributors in their own category. Plus dialing back on the 2 Senior candidates every year which had gotten a bit out of control. The interest in the HOF and the voting (nominees, semis, finalist, etc) is larger than its ever been before. As much as I still think they need to add more voters to the process, the current media guys involved are loving it, because being a part of the committee makes gives them massive credibility and followers on Twitter/Facebook/etc. That equals bigger paychecks for them. The HOF itself is also loving it, because interest in their product is at an all-time high. So to keep Seau out, who by almost any football fans measure was a top 10 LB of all-time, for any reason whatsoever would more so take away the credibility of the media voters. Seau is the strongest candidate eligible since Deion and Marshall Faulk 5 years ago. He's going in, most likley with 100% of the votes.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I definitely don't think that Junior Seau is the candidate who voters might hesitate to vote in this time around for "bad publicity" reasons. Marvin Harrison on the other hand.....
I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy! Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
I guess I'm in the minority here because the majority to vote to add him to the all-time RBs set, but I don't see Roger Craig as an all-time RB. He had a few really good years, but not enough to be considered an all-time great. Frank Gifford, Leroy Kelly, Shaun Alexander, Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are all running backs I would have put in over Craig.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
What really pisses me off about this process is that the original creators and contributors of this set and the other All-Time sets, through active discussion on the boards, came to a gentleman's agreement that any new additions will be discussed before brought to a vote. If the player isn't even in the HOF, how can he be considered an all-time great???
No, someone decides to put this to a vote and people just vote without discussion to the players merits. It's stuff like this that's diminished my enthusiasm for these sets.
Here here Frank & Andy. I agree I'm not an original but been around a while. Roger was a lesser Thurman Thomas. However he was on a team with a dangerous passing attack and could run or catch. He was a good short yardage dump.
T Davis was a much better runner and had not injury basically ended his career he was hall bound.
To be honest this thread has crapped out also.
5 or so years ago many knowledgeable guys would contribute regularly with pros and cons on all types of FB subjects.
Jason, Scott and many others would teach me and I have been watching FB on TV for 40+ years.
I have my opinions but a good argument can persuade me to change my thoughts.
Will it kill me R Craig is in the set now? no. I have his card in a 9 because I thought he was a good player.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>If the player isn't even in the HOF, how can he be considered an all-time great??? >>
That sums it up quite nicely, Frank. There are quite a few HOF running backs (Gifford, Kelly, JHJ, Little, etc.) who aren't in the set, so how could a running back who's not in the HOF, who's been rightfully passed over time and time again, be considered an all-time great? Hopefully this is just an isolated incident, but I'll be sure to come here and voice some opinions next time an unworthy candidate gets nominated.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Guys, I think we are going a little over board here. The prerequisite to be in the set was 10,000 yards. That is why, Gifford, Kelly etc HOFers are not in the set. We all have choice to make on whether we want to be in the set or not. I was not in favor of Craig getting in, but with the west coast offense it is hard to discern between passing and a pitch to the running back other than one is in front of the QB and the other behind. I think of Craig as being a major cog in the Niners offense from that era.
I have dropped sets that I have created due to the "addition" of players. I was the leader in the Ohio State set until it was decided to add Panini cards for Thadeous Gibson, Terrell Pryor and Cameron Heyword and then a topps card for Devier Posey (because the person requesting them already had them in PSA 10). I could see Heyword maybe in chrome, but in no way are these their best cards or All time greats. Then I couldn't get All Pro players like Doug France from the Rams added, I decided that rather chase cards that were worthless to move away for the set.
The lesson I learned was that if you have issues with people adding cards or the card they chose, pick up the phone and call customer service. Once a card is added, it will take an act of God to get it removed or changed!
Good to hear responses from jay, Bill and even Andy
I'm not commenting on the player though, my frustration is with the process. These last 4 posts are the only discussion regarding this player. In the past when we had debates over adding players to the set, we discussed pros and cons here. The players merits were debated and than if there was enough of an arguement for the player, a vote was initiated. The set has also evolved. When it was first constructed, players that Andy mentioned (Gifford, Kelly. etc) were left out yet players such as Motley, J. Perry, Van Buren were added because they were deemed better than thos players AND they did not have 10,000 rushing. That came later when someone wanted to construct a 10,000 yard rushing set, and PSA felt many of the players were already in the All-Time greats set. So they presented the idea of adding those players to the set and making it a pre-requiste, but only after it was discussed/debated on these boards. There are 57 registered collectors of this set. 26 of which are under 50% complete. I don't know if PSA just counts the votes (Example: 13 people vote, 8 say yes, 5 say no card gets added) or if PSA needs a majority. In this case, 29 votes, for a card to be added. I tend to believe its the first example. So if someone nominates D. Murray for the set, with no discussion or debate on this thread/board, in Example #1 the card gets added to the set. Thats the issue I have with this current process. New players can be added not on their merit, but on their popularity. To further hammer the point, with 8,189 career rushing yards, R. Craig doesn't even make the 10,000 yard rushing pre-requiste
<< <i>The prerequisite to be in the set was 10,000 yards. That is why, Gifford, Kelly etc HOFers are not in the set. >>
I wasn't collecting the set from the get go, but I believe it originally consisted of just the best of the best HOF RBs. That's why guys like Campbell, Csonka and a few others made it despite finishing with less than 10,000 rushing yards (Perry, J. Taylor, Moore, Van Buren, etc. were not originally in the set). Somewhere along the lines someone requested a 10,000 yard rushers set, and PSA decided to kinda merge the two rather then create a new one. More recently, the 10,000-yard thing went out the window, and the set (I thought) was back to the best of the best. Regardless, I think the requirement now should be for the RB to be a sure shot HOF'er, which Craig is not.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Another shining example of what killed the enjoyment of the Registry for me. I recently sold off the final few pieces of my HOF RCs. Was sad to see them go, but at the same time once my mind had crossed the threshold of really giving a crap about the cards it wasn't all that tough to sell off. It took a few years, but all gone now.
I still check in here now and again to see if any HOF discussions go down. As Frank pointed out, unfortunately there aren't as many as we had in the past. Most of the priginal group of HOF RC collectors have moved on to other things and most of the Key Card sets have been hijacked and turned into laughable projects. A few are still what I would consider valid, but the Registry crew allowed riff raff to take over and common sense no longer prevailed.
The day I received the email requesting the addition of Brett Favre to the 1990's Team of the Decade set in May of 2010, I knew it was the beginning of the end for me on the Registry.
Best of luck to those still collecting and I really like to see some of you still fighting the good fight and being the voice of reason in a sea of inconsistency. Fight on brothers!
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason- I'm so glad you responded to these posts. I knew your feelings on this issue from past discussions and wanted to hear your reaction.
I didn't want to turn my post into a "old guys vs new guys" debate. When I first joined the boards and was the new guy, I respected the opinion and gained invaluable knowledge from other board members, Jasp24 especially. I still think the excitement that used to surround these sets can be resurrected, but through positive player discussion.
If these sets are going to evolve, they need to grow through a sharing of knowledge, not by a haphazard voting system.
Comments
<< <i>With my change of focus collecting I was looking at the HOF sets for baseball. Wow! What hot mess that is. You can use any card from their playing years which leads to just crazy sets. Thanks God we had the decency to lock it down to one card. >>
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
You can have a psa 9 1954 Aaron rc and get a lower set rating than a guy that has a 1990 swell
Ya kiddin me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Word to the wise...on BB vs FB
Lots more $$$$$$$$$
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
MLB HOF Post War RC set
MLB HOF Restricted Players set
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>I submitted a request for both players. >>
Great, thanks...!!!!
<< <i>If you guys are looking for a HOF baseball RC set on the registry with specific cards then check these out:
MLB HOF Post War RC set
MLB HOF Restricted Players set >>
I see that there are specific cards for the Pre War players but the post war 1948 Leaf vs 1949 Bowman issue kinda stinks for the guy who has the Leaf Paige compared to the Bowman one. In most instances you could get off on the cheap going the Bowman route.
I know I was cranked when someone added the two feltbacks to this set. Did anyone ever fess up to that?
<< <i>Who gets selected to participate in the poll? >>
Registered collectors of the set.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Shouldn't all the registered collectors of the set be polled? >>
To my knowledge, everyone on the set gets the poll. Do you collect the Future HOF Players- Modern set and did not receive the poll? If so, I would e-mail the Registry staff and ask them about it. Would first probably look in your spam folder since they send it mass e-mail sometimes it will filter there.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
1996 Bowman's Best Ray Lewis #164 PSA 10
1997 SP Authentic Walter Jones #6 PSA 10 ****Sold****
2001 Bowman Chrome Reggie Wayne #189 PSA 10
2002 Topps Chrome Ed Reed #208 PSA 10
2002 Topps Chrome Dwight Freeney Black Refractor #171 PSA 9
2005 Topps Total Robert Mathis #147 PSA 10
2005 Score Robert Mathis #126 PSA 10
2013 Topps Chrome Eric Fisher #166 PSA 10
2013 Topps Chrome Sheldon Richardson #202 PSA 10
Thanks, Bill
Favrefan's HOF set
I am working on pricing it up as I am selling it. Feel free to send over offers for anything until I get prices out.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Morten Andersen
Steve At-water
Jerome Bettis
Tim Brown
Isaac Bruce
Don Coryell
Roger Craig
Terrell Davis
Tony Dungy
Kevin Greene
Charles Haley
Marvin Harrison
Torry Holt
Joe Jacoby
Edgerrin James
Jimmy Johnson
Mike Kenn
Ty Law
John Lynch
Kevin Mawae
Karl Mecklenburg
Orlando Pace
Junior Seau
Will Shields
Kurt Warner
Darren Woodson
<< <i>26 Semifinalists announced today:
Morten Andersen
Steve At-water
Jerome Bettis
Tim Brown
Isaac Bruce
Don Coryell
Roger Craig
Terrell Davis
Tony Dungy
Kevin Greene
Charles Haley
Marvin Harrison
Torry Holt
Joe Jacoby
Edgerrin James
Jimmy Johnson
Mike Kenn
Ty Law
John Lynch
Kevin Mawae
Karl Mecklenburg
Orlando Pace
Junior Seau
Will Shields
Kurt Warner
Darren Woodson >>
Was nice to see Woodson get some love. Clearing out the contributors opened it up for guys like him and Mike Kenn, who had never been a semifinalist. Was somewhat surprised to see so many 1st ballot guys. In particular BOTH Holt and Bruce, will be interesting to see if they cancel each other out over the years and/or how quickly they get to the top 15. Here are my top 15 predictions which will be released 8 Jan:
Junior Seau
Kurt Warner
Marvin Harrison
Charles Haley
Jerome Bettis
Orlando Pace
Will Shields
Kevin Greene
Tony Dungy
Tim Brown
John Lynch
Kevin Mawae
Don Coryell
Ty Law
Morten Andersen
The top 5 are my "way too early" Class of 2015 predictions...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>26 Semifinalists announced today:
Morten Andersen
Steve At-water
Jerome Bettis
Tim Brown
Isaac Bruce
Don Coryell
Roger Craig
Terrell Davis
Tony Dungy
Kevin Greene
Charles Haley
Marvin Harrison
Torry Holt
Joe Jacoby
Edgerrin James
Jimmy Johnson
Mike Kenn
Ty Law
John Lynch
Kevin Mawae
Karl Mecklenburg
Orlando Pace
Junior Seau
Will Shields
Kurt Warner
Darren Woodson >>
My Top 5 right now are
Orlando Pace
Kurt Warner
Marvin Harrison
Charles Haley
Jerome Bettis
Only reason I removed Seau is the NFL has so much going on with head injuries they don't want this to take over the induction class this year. But, on the same note they sure would love head injury talk instead of AP or Ray Rice in my opinion.
<< <i>Not that he will ever make it, but Woodson was one of my favorites. What would be his card to get...similar to the Jimmy Smith? The 1992 Collector's Edge? There is so much junk from that era of cards, it is hard to tell. >>
I imagine it would be 1992 Stadium Club as that is the card that's used in the All-Time Cowboys set.
<< <i>I imagine it would be 1992 Stadium Club as that is the card that's used in the All-Time Cowboys set. >>
Perfect. Thanks.
Also, just to throw it out there....anyone have a PSA 9 or better 1983 Joe Jacoby or 1981 Mike Kenn? I hate when the surprise player gets in and we are all scrambling to find the same card at once.
Keep in mind, they removed contributors from the equation this year...DeBartolo, Tagliabue, George Young, plus the 5 HOF selections from last year all missing from this years list of eligibles. That plus the extra guy (due to voting tie) somewhat explains the surprises this year.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
Only reason I removed Seau is the NFL has so much going on with head injuries they don't want this to take over the induction class this year. But, on the same note they sure would love head injury talk instead of AP or Ray Rice in my opinion. >>
Seau is the only 100% lock on the ballot this year. Absolutely no chance he gets bypassed. It would completely invalidate the HOF voting process. I definitely get where you are coming from, but he was simply too good of a player for them to bypass for media reasons. The backlash of keeping him out would be MUCH MUCH worse. If it were a more marginal/borderline candidate? Sure.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I would think Orlando Pace would be a lock. Maybe Harrison. >>
Harrison should have been a lock last year. Then again, I thought the same about Cris Carter when he was first eligible, and the voters made him wait 6 years before he finally got the nod. While I think Harrison will get in this year, I can't say I'd be shocked if Tim Brown made it instead. The voters do funny things when it comes to receivers. As for Pace, I know he's getting a lot of love, for me he didn't do it long enough to go in first ballot. A mere 3 All Pro nods just isn't that impressive for a would-be first-ballot offensive lineman.
Pace could get in for sure, but I think he's got a tough road. He wasn't quite as dominant as Walter Jones, who went in last year. He also wasn't quite on the level of Jon Ogden who went in the year before. We also had Willie Roaf go in as a Tackle 3 years ago...So 3 straight seasons with an offensive tackle. Meanwhile, offensive guard Will Shields has been a finalist all 3 of those years, and even made the cut to 10 last year. So IMO, Pace has a bit of a tougher sell and too many obstacles to get over before calling him a lock. Just my opinion. I'd give Pace about 40% chance of getting in. I think he will make the cutdown to the final 10 along with Will Shields, but I think the voters will go with a 2nd defensive guy (my guess is Haley) as well as more skill position players. The past 3 classes have had only ONE skill position guy in each class. At some point they will get back to having 2-3 skill position players, and this looks like a strong year to do just that. I see Pace going in with the Class of 2017, after Shields goes in 2016.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Jason, what are your thoughts on Kevin Mawae? I had written him off as a potential HOF'er, but I'm starting to re-think that. I know he's not getting in this year, but do you think he has a strong chance to eventually get elected? >>
Absolutely he does...I have him making the top 15 finalists this year as the 2nd best interior lineman eligible (and #1 Center). His resume speaks for itself. Starting Center on the 2000's NFL Team of the Decade. He's going to wait a bit, no doubt..Maybe 5-10 year range but should almost certainly get in at some point.
Will be interesting to see where he lands this year...If he does in fact make the top 15, expect his enshrinement to be closer to the 5-6 year range..If he doesn't, then maybe closer to 10. You've got Faneca eligible in 2016, Steve Hutchinson in 2018, both Interior Linemen. How he stacks against those 2 will likely determine his timeline. I have him getting in after Shields and Faneca, but before Hutchinson.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I would think Faneca goes in in year 1 >>
I have him projected to go in second year of eligibility(2017). Mostly depends on Shields, as I do not believe Faneca will leapfrog him. If Shields goes in this year, then Faneca's chances to go in first ballot will greatly increase. They most certainly won't select two O-Guards to go in the same year either. 2016 and 2017 Classes are fairly weak when it comes to first year eligibles. On the flipside, 2018 and 2019 are looking mighty crowded at the top already.
My prediction is Shields in 2016, Faneca 2017.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
Seau is the only 100% lock on the ballot this year. Absolutely no chance he gets bypassed. It would completely invalidate the HOF voting process. I definitely get where you are coming from, but he was simply too good of a player for them to bypass for media reasons. The backlash of keeping him out would be MUCH MUCH worse. If it were a more marginal/borderline candidate? Sure. >>
Well, if they do not put him in and the backlash would actually put the process in question which would not be a bad thing. I think the process needs a good revamp anyhow.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Seau is the only 100% lock on the ballot this year. Absolutely no chance he gets bypassed. It would completely invalidate the HOF voting process. I definitely get where you are coming from, but he was simply too good of a player for them to bypass for media reasons. The backlash of keeping him out would be MUCH MUCH worse. If it were a more marginal/borderline candidate? Sure. >>
Well, if they do not put him in and the backlash would actually put the process in question which would not be a bad thing. I think the process needs a good revamp anyhow. >>
Fair point, but I doubt the current voters (media members) are interested in making themselves look like fools. lol
The process was just re-vamped with the move to have contributors in their own category. Plus dialing back on the 2 Senior candidates every year which had gotten a bit out of control. The interest in the HOF and the voting (nominees, semis, finalist, etc) is larger than its ever been before. As much as I still think they need to add more voters to the process, the current media guys involved are loving it, because being a part of the committee makes gives them massive credibility and followers on Twitter/Facebook/etc. That equals bigger paychecks for them. The HOF itself is also loving it, because interest in their product is at an all-time high. So to keep Seau out, who by almost any football fans measure was a top 10 LB of all-time, for any reason whatsoever would more so take away the credibility of the media voters. Seau is the strongest candidate eligible since Deion and Marshall Faulk 5 years ago. He's going in, most likley with 100% of the votes.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
No, someone decides to put this to a vote and people just vote without discussion to the players merits. It's stuff like this that's diminished my enthusiasm for these sets.
Roger was a lesser Thurman Thomas. However he was on a team with a dangerous passing attack
and could run or catch. He was a good short yardage dump.
T Davis was a much better runner and had not injury basically ended his career he was hall bound.
To be honest this thread has crapped out also.
5 or so years ago many knowledgeable guys would contribute regularly with pros and cons on all types of FB subjects.
Jason, Scott and many others would teach me and I have been watching FB on TV for 40+ years.
I have my opinions but a good argument can persuade me to change my thoughts.
Will it kill me R Craig is in the set now? no. I have his card in a 9 because I thought he was a good player.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>If the player isn't even in the HOF, how can he be considered an all-time great??? >>
That sums it up quite nicely, Frank. There are quite a few HOF running backs (Gifford, Kelly, JHJ, Little, etc.) who aren't in the set, so how could a running back who's not in the HOF, who's been rightfully passed over time and time again, be considered an all-time great? Hopefully this is just an isolated incident, but I'll be sure to come here and voice some opinions next time an unworthy candidate gets nominated.
I have dropped sets that I have created due to the "addition" of players. I was the leader in the Ohio State set until it was decided to add Panini cards for Thadeous Gibson, Terrell Pryor and Cameron Heyword and then a topps card for Devier Posey (because the person requesting them already had them in PSA 10). I could see Heyword maybe in chrome, but in no way are these their best cards or All time greats. Then I couldn't get All Pro players like Doug France from the Rams added, I decided that rather chase cards that were worthless to move away for the set.
The lesson I learned was that if you have issues with people adding cards or the card they chose, pick up the phone and call customer service. Once a card is added, it will take an act of God to get it removed or changed!
I'm not commenting on the player though, my frustration is with the process. These last 4 posts are the only discussion regarding this player. In the past when we had debates over adding players to the set, we discussed pros and cons here. The players merits were debated and than if there was enough of an arguement for the player, a vote was initiated.
The set has also evolved. When it was first constructed, players that Andy mentioned (Gifford, Kelly. etc) were left out yet players such as Motley, J. Perry, Van Buren were added because they were deemed better than thos players AND they did not have 10,000 rushing. That came later when someone wanted to construct a 10,000 yard rushing set, and PSA felt many of the players were already in the All-Time greats set. So they presented the idea of adding those players to the set and making it a pre-requiste, but only after it was discussed/debated on these boards.
There are 57 registered collectors of this set. 26 of which are under 50% complete. I don't know if PSA just counts the votes (Example: 13 people vote, 8 say yes, 5 say no card gets added) or if PSA needs a majority. In this case, 29 votes, for a card to be added. I tend to believe its the first example.
So if someone nominates D. Murray for the set, with no discussion or debate on this thread/board, in Example #1 the card gets added to the set.
Thats the issue I have with this current process.
New players can be added not on their merit, but on their popularity.
To further hammer the point, with 8,189 career rushing yards, R. Craig doesn't even make the 10,000 yard rushing pre-requiste
<< <i>The prerequisite to be in the set was 10,000 yards. That is why, Gifford, Kelly etc HOFers are not in the set. >>
I wasn't collecting the set from the get go, but I believe it originally consisted of just the best of the best HOF RBs. That's why guys like Campbell, Csonka and a few others made it despite finishing with less than 10,000 rushing yards (Perry, J. Taylor, Moore, Van Buren, etc. were not originally in the set). Somewhere along the lines someone requested a 10,000 yard rushers set, and PSA decided to kinda merge the two rather then create a new one. More recently, the 10,000-yard thing went out the window, and the set (I thought) was back to the best of the best. Regardless, I think the requirement now should be for the RB to be a sure shot HOF'er, which Craig is not.
I still check in here now and again to see if any HOF discussions go down. As Frank pointed out, unfortunately there aren't as many as we had in the past. Most of the priginal group of HOF RC collectors have moved on to other things and most of the Key Card sets have been hijacked and turned into laughable projects. A few are still what I would consider valid, but the Registry crew allowed riff raff to take over and common sense no longer prevailed.
The day I received the email requesting the addition of Brett Favre to the 1990's Team of the Decade set in May of 2010, I knew it was the beginning of the end for me on the Registry.
Best of luck to those still collecting and I really like to see some of you still fighting the good fight and being the voice of reason in a sea of inconsistency. Fight on brothers!
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I didn't want to turn my post into a "old guys vs new guys" debate. When I first joined the boards and was the new guy, I respected the opinion and gained invaluable knowledge from other board members, Jasp24 especially. I still think the excitement that used to surround these sets can be resurrected, but through positive player discussion.
If these sets are going to evolve, they need to grow through a sharing of knowledge, not by a haphazard voting system.
I have just a very small portion of my set left and have been buying more memrobilia than cards. Life gets in the way sometimes.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!