<< <i>I do not understand why Howley has not even been nominated by the senior committee! If the electors have an issue with how many 1960's/1970's Cowboys are in the HOF they should of nominated Howley before Hayes or Wright. In my opinion he should of gone in before Tippett, R.Jackson, Hanburger, Richter, Robinson, D.Thomas, H. Carson, and D. Wilcox.
I am clueless as to why he is not been inducted to the HOF. I have not seen a ton of footage of him but a handful of games and clips and in those he played like a guy who was a Pro Bowler 6 times and All Pro 5 times. >>
Does the Senior Committee have a stated mandate or criteria to use to guide their selections? On the one hand, you have guys who have been thoroughly considered already, either as part of the regular nomination process as Finalists or Semi-Finalists. These guys seem to have had their chance. Then on the other hand, you have guys who were never really considered in the first place. Either they didn't make the list of nominees or fell off the ballot too quickly or were old-timers who never had their shot. These guys seem like they deserve a little more thought and consideration.
For me, I'd rather see the Senior Committee focus on the guys who were never debated or discussed before. If someone has already been a Finalist a couple of times and didn't get elected, maybe that's the right answer. But, if their name never came up in the first place, that (for me) would be a better use of the Senior Committee's resources.
Anyway, just my $0.02. Either way, more chances to talk about football is okay by me.
<< <i>Does the Senior Committee have a stated mandate or criteria to use to guide their selections? On the one hand, you have guys who have been thoroughly considered already, either as part of the regular nomination process as Finalists or Semi-Finalists. These guys seem to have had their chance. Then on the other hand, you have guys who were never really considered in the first place. Either they didn't make the list of nominees or fell off the ballot too quickly or were old-timers who never had their shot. These guys seem like they deserve a little more thought and consideration.
For me, I'd rather see the Senior Committee focus on the guys who were never debated or discussed before. If someone has already been a Finalist a couple of times and didn't get elected, maybe that's the right answer. But, if their name never came up in the first place, that (for me) would be a better use of the Senior Committee's resources.
Anyway, just my $0.02. Either way, more chances to talk about football is okay by me. >>
For me, if you had the ability to be on the top 15 (now 25) and never made it once in the 20 years you had eligibility you are shut out. You only need to make the finals once to be considered. I just don't get the senior guys. I know it is hugely political but there process is seriously flawed.
I just thought of Culp and this Mick, never once did they make it to the finals prior to their enshrinement. I for one will not be buying a Culp or Mick card for my collection. Honestly it is making think of retiring my set. And at nearly 85% I would have some good coin to refocus.
For the most part, the Senior Committee serves its purpose. You have guys who made the finals, but maybe couldn't make the final cut as a modern because of better options. I mean we see it every year where deserving players arent elected because there are more than 5 deserving moderns. That number used to be lower. Then you have guys who never got a fair look, never made the top 15. Keep in mind the process of cutting to 25 before cutting to 15 just started about 10-11 years ago. Prior to that, the cut was 100+ player nominees down to the 15 finalist with nothing in between. I can see how very easily OC, OG, LB, etc could be overlooked in those cases.
My issue is what some of you expressed here in the thread. The voters have agendas. There are too few voters. You get 3 of the 5 who come to Canton who have an agenda towards a player and you end up with an underwhelming candidate. To me, this is what has created weak selections the last few. Lowering the seniors down to 1 again every once in awhile maybe will help them refocus.
For the record, I personally think Mick Tingelhoff was one of the most deserving seniors, and has been for quite a few years. If the Vikings had won even ONE of those Super Bowls during their run, he would have been in long ago. But those losses, coupled with his poor play in some of those games made it very easily to bypass him in the past. I'm glad he's finally in. Only Jerry Kramer an equally or more deserving O-Lineman IMO.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I am clueless as to why he is not been inducted to the HOF. I have not seen a ton of footage of him but a handful of games and clips and in those he played like a guy who was a Pro Bowler 6 times and All Pro 5 times. >>
I agree! Not to mention that Howley is still the only Super Bowl MVP from a losing team. I think he's the most glaring HOF omission, followed by Jerry Kramer. I can't argue with Tingelhoff's selection because I think he's very deserving, but Howley and Kramer should have both been inducted a looooong time ago. >>
I personally think he most deserving candidate is another Packer that was a five time straight All Pro End. Lavvie Dilweg should have been in one off the first classes in 1963-1966. If you look at the All Time team from the 20's he is one of only two not in.
Dilweg should have been inducted decades ago, probably in place of Wayne (how am I in the HOF) Millner.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
If we take Kramer as a strong HOF candidate then why isn't Stanfel (who was an All Pro or Pro Bowler six out of the seven years that he played)?
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
Stanfel had a shorter career vs. weaker competition. I think he is deserving, but should have been behind both Kramer and Tingeloff and maybe even one or two other O-Lineman.
Agree on Dilweg. He's saddled by a few factors. Major one being he played so long ago, no one remembers him. And there isnt much footage to go by to form a new opinion. Millner will always be one of those head scratchers that slipped by. At this point, can't invision a scenario where Dilweg gets in. He just doesnt have the support, and doubt any of the Senior committee present or future has the wherewithal to push him enough to ever get him selected.
Mark him up as a conversation piece you can have about the guys who should be in but never will be.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Every once in a while I will check the active players achievements to see if there was anyone who is up and coming or I just missed that could be considered as a future HOFer. I found one: JAHRI EVANS: Saints, Guard, 5-time Pro Bowler & 4-time First-Team All-Pro in an 8 year career. Beckett does not list a RC for him, but his first card in a regular set is 2010 Topps #319. What do you think? and did anyone else find a deserving candidate that has not been discussed before.
<< <i>I am clueless as to why he is not been inducted to the HOF. I have not seen a ton of footage of him but a handful of games and clips and in those he played like a guy who was a Pro Bowler 6 times and All Pro 5 times. >>
I agree! Not to mention that Howley is still the only Super Bowl MVP from a losing team. I think he's the most glaring HOF omission, followed by Jerry Kramer. I can't argue with Tingelhoff's selection because I think he's very deserving, but Howley and Kramer should have both been inducted a looooong time ago. >>
I personally think he most deserving candidate is another Packer that was a five time straight All Pro End. Lavvie Dilweg should have been in one off the first classes in 1963-1966. If you look at the All Time team from the 20's he is one of only two not in.
There is no doubt that Lavvie Dilweg should be in. I just hope it doesn't happen until AFTER I find an autograph from him FIRST.
Rocke
WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
<< <i>Every once in a while I will check the active players achievements to see if there was anyone who is up and coming or I just missed that could be considered as a future HOFer. I found one: JAHRI EVANS: Saints, Guard, 5-time Pro Bowler & 4-time First-Team All-Pro in an 8 year career. Beckett does not list a RC for him, but his first card in a regular set is 2010 Topps #319. What do you think? and did anyone else find a deserving candidate that has not been discussed before. >>
Patrick Willis Joe Thomas Darrelle Revis Andre Johnson Jason Peters Terrell Suggs Jared Allen
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
The Senior Committee continues to ignore Al Wistert . . . That is all I have to say about that. Well, actually, I'll quote this from CHFF:
Albert ‘Al’ Wistert Positions: Tackle-Guard Team: 1943-51 Philadelphia Eagles
Hall of Fame coach George Allen listed Wistert as one of the 100 best pro players of all-time in his book Pro Football’s 100 Greatest Players and also selected him as one of the 10 best defensive linemen of all-time.
“He always played in perfect position and was seldom off his feet,” Allen wrote of Wistert’s defensive abilities. “He was a superb pursuit man and seemed somehow to get in on every play. He was a sure tackler. He was maybe best against the run, but he was among the good early pass rushers.”
Of Wistert as an offensive lineman, Allen wrote, “He was as fine a blocker as you could want. He didn’t have the size to overpower people on the pass block, but he was a master of every kind of block.”
Prior to Wistert’s arrival in Philadelphia, the Eagles never had a season of .500 or better in their history. They finished .500 or better eight of the nine seasons that he was on the team. Prior to his arrival, the Eagles cumulative winning percentage was .219. During his tenure, they went .649. The Eagles have won three NFL championships in their history. Two of them came while Wistert was on the team.
Offensively, the Eagles led the NFL in rushing yards three times during Wistert’s career. That had never happened prior to Wistert’s arrival, and the team has only done so once in the 60 years since he retired.
Philadelphia led the NFL in points scored three times during Wistert’s career. That feat had never happened before his arrival and has never been achieved by the team since. Four times during Wistert’s career an Eagle running back led the NFL in rushing yards. No Philadelphia RB had ever done so before Wistert joined the team and none has done so since.
Defensively, the Eagles led the NFL in fewest points allowed twice during Wistert’s career; something that never happened prior to his arrival. The Eagles led the NFL in fewest yards allowed three times during Wistert’s career; a first for the team. Philadelphia led the NFL in fewest rushing yards allowed five times during Wistert’s career; a franchise first.
Wistert was named to at least one major first all-pro team six times (consecutively 1944-49), including five times consensus (1944-48). In the four seasons from 1946 through 1949, various major news agencies selected combined all-NFL/AAFC teams. Wistert was named first team on at least one of those teams in all four seasons: 1946 (AP), 1947 (AP, Sportswriters Inc.), 1948 (Sportswriters Inc., The Sporting News), and 1949 (International News Service).
No other player accomplished this feat, including none of the 16 Hall of Famers who played all four of those seasons. Of the 10 all-NFL/AAFC teams selected from 1946-49, Wistert was named to six. Only Mac Speedie and Hall of Famers Steve Van Buren and Bulldog Turner were named to more (Speedie will be discussed in more detail, later, in this article).
Wistert was named to the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s all-decade team of the 1940s. He was also named by the Professional Football Researchers Association to their very first class of the Hall of Very Good in 2003.
In The Hidden Game of Football, football historians Bob Carroll, Pete Palmer and John Thorn analyzed the Hall of Fame credentials of hundreds of players. They determined that of all the players not in the Hall of Fame, Wistert was the most deserving of enshrinement.
He may have been mentioned in the thread, but, anyone have an opinion on Leslie O'Neal and the HOF? Plenty of sacks for his career. Lacks SB ring. Lacks some personal accolades but the guy was a force. Better than some DEs in the HOF IMO. Missed the better part of 2 years with a knee injury or who knows what kind of career he would have had.
Yeah, it's a rhetorical question. I know that all you need are 2 heavy hitters to come along to skew the values, but this is just silly. Makes we wish I had one to sell. The Lilly 9, Willie Brown 9, Little 9 and Yary 10, to name just a few, are also commanding very strong prices. It won't be long before that really nice Gifford 8 follows suit.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Yeah, it's a rhetorical question. I know that all you need are 2 heavy hitters to come along to skew the values, but this is just silly. Makes we wish I had one to sell. The Lilly 9, Willie Brown 9, Little 9 and Yary 10, to name just a few, are also commanding very strong prices. It won't be long before that really nice Gifford 8 follows suit. >>
Interesting bidding patterns on most of these rare listings, will say that much. True value is probably closer to what the 3rd highest bidder ends up bidding.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I have made the decision to retire my set once I hit 90%. I am at 83.55% and if all goes right when I hit 90% I should be 27th or 28th all time. I really enjoyed collecting the set but the chase is most of the fun. So I gotta find another chase with the sales of this set once I hit 90%. If you have any mid to low grade cards that I need please send me a pm with the price. I want to have this done by Halloween so I am gonna hit the 'Bay hard but would love to have cards from fellow collectors here in my set.
I am focusing on percentage and not the grade now so if you need to dump a PSA 2, now is the time.
With the release of the Class of 2015 nominees this week, time to start looking towards the next group of inductees. Here are my early predictions:
Junior Seau Kurt Warner Marvin Harrison Charles Haley Jerome Bettis
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Junior Seau Kurt Warner Marvin Harrison Charles Haley Jerome Bettis >>
+1
I also think Tingelhoff is a lock from the Senior pool. I suppose someone like Kevin Greene or Tim Brown could sneak in, but I think the 5 above are most likely.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>Junior Seau Kurt Warner Marvin Harrison Charles Haley Jerome Bettis >>
+1
I also think Tingelhoff is a lock from the Senior pool. I suppose someone like Kevin Greene or Tim Brown could sneak in, but I think the 5 above are most likely. >>
Both Tingelhoff and whoever the contributor they select are both going to get in with no problem. As a means to support this new process. Neither has any competition unlike the modern guys.
Greene could replace Haley, entirely feasible. But Haley has made the cut down to 10 for 3 straight years. Only person to do that and NOT get elected in the following year was Andre Reed. He made the cut down to 10 four times before getting elected the following year. Greene made the cut to 10 for the first time last tear, so would seem he has a tad less support than Haley. But Greene is a very popular guy while Haley is not...So, could happen.
Don't see anyway Tim Brown will leapfrog Harrison. Marvin made the cut to 10 in his first year of eligibility which essentially guarantees he will go in this year..Unless some negative press or something comes out about between now and then (as if we need any more at this point on any players..lol).
The 5th and final Modern Era slot is pretty wide open at this point. I've got Bettis finally getting in after making the cut to 10 both of the past 2 years. Would not be surprised to see Will Shields, Orlando Pace, Tony Dungy or even John Lynch sneaking up to take the 5th slot. Not hearing anything on any other players/coaches that makes me think anyone else really has an outside shot who I didn't just list above. The top 3 are about as lock as it gets...Would be shocked if Haley OR Greene doesn't take the 4th spot as well. Confident in giving it a 90% that one of those 2 are selected this year. The 5th spot is going to be very interesting to watch.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
interesting to me that this whole story just seemed to disappear after a couple years. I wonder if the NFL may whisper to the voters that it might not be the best time to elect Harrison to the HOF.
I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy! Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>With all the trouble currently in the NFL, questions about Marvin Harrison and a gun charge, lead me to believe that there will be no Harrison, >>
Will be interesting to see how the votes play out. Harrison's issues are from a few years ago, and nothing new has came up or been in the news. He made it to the final 10 last year in his first year eligible. Hard to say where the media hype will be by the time January 31st rolls around. If he gets bypassed again, will open the door for the others I mentioned as well as for Tim Brown.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I would think that this is not the year the doors open for Harrison. Too much negative press would come along with it.
I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy! Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>I would think that this is not the year the doors open for Harrison. Too much negative press would come along with it. >>
I think it's important to remember, the Pro Football HOF and the NFL are completely separate entities...Also, the press is who does the voting...I do agree his past issues keeping him out is a valid point and could very well happen. But IMO, if he gets bypassed this year, it will create more issues as it pertains to HOF voting bylaws. Which specifically state no off-field issues will be considered. If he does or doesn't go will rest fully upon the press itself though, and it won't matter that the NFL office wants or what the public wants.
Until I hear something otherwise from a voter/voters I'm going to stick with my prediction that he goes in. If anyone hears or reads differently post here. If the voters flat out say they aren't voting him in because of the fallout created by the Ray Rice issue, I can see the entire process being changed/overhauled.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason, Were the HOF bylaws in place when they decided to NOT vote in Jim Tyrer, when he became eligible? Tyrer was arguably the second best offensive lineman in AFL history behind Jim Otto, played in two Super Bowls, was all-pro many years at tackle.
Tyrer's murder/suicide was just sad, but it did happen several years after he retired and of course, off the field. Maybe his circumstances were looked at differently by the voters.
<< <i>Jason, Were the HOF bylaws in place when they decided to NOT vote in Jim Tyrer, when he became eligible? Tyrer was arguably the second best offensive lineman in AFL history behind Jim Otto, played in two Super Bowls, was all-pro many years at tackle.
Tyrer's murder/suicide was just sad, but it did happen several years after he retired and of course, off the field. Maybe his circumstances were looked at differently by the voters. >>
I disagree he was 2nd best....I'll take Ron Mix, who also played OT...Other than Mix and Otto, Billy Shaw (Guard) the only other OL from the AFL in the HOF. Tyrer passed away in the murder/suicide in Sept 1980. he was eligible for the HOF Class of 1980, which was PRIOR to the event, and he wasn't voted as a top 15 finalist in his first year eligible. He was a finalist for the Class of 1981, immediatley following the personal event. His case was discussed, and it certainly COULD have played a part. But it should be noted, he wasn't immediately inducted or even to the list of finalist PRIOR to the event. Marvin Harrison however, was voted to the top 10 in his first year. Marvin Harrison's accusation was that he killed a known thug/drug dealer vs. his own wife or himself.
I mean is there ANY question on Junior Seau going in? VERY recent suicide and he will be the bell cow of the class. Won't be any question on Ray Lewis either, even with his issues. First ballot. So more than anything, it boils down to quality of the player. At best, Jim Tyrer was/is a borderline HOF candidate. Personally I think he is deserving, but most likely we will never see another OL from the AFL put into the HOF. They were simply too hard to judge against inferior D-Line talent to what the NFL was producing at the time (Buck Buchanan the only AFL D-Line HOFer)
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm back again....sounding trumpets for the inclusion of Joe Thomas into the Future HOF set. I would also throw Patrick Willis into the mix, but I'll limit the discussion to one player. And I am not a Browns fan...I am a Titans fan, but this guy is the real deal. Legit skills AND he has now played 100 games. 115 to be exact. 7x Pro Bowler (every season in the league, only 1 of 11 players to do this), 4x 1st Team All Pro, 2x 2nd Team All Pro. Voted 18th best player in league by his peers. Okay....everyone talk me off the ledge again this year.
<< <i>I'm back again....sounding trumpets for the inclusion of Joe Thomas into the Future HOF set. I would also throw Patrick Willis into the mix, but I'll limit the discussion to one player. And I am not a Browns fan...I am a Titans fan, but this guy is the real deal. Legit skills AND he has now played 100 games. 115 to be exact. 7x Pro Bowler (every season in the league, only 1 of 11 players to do this), 4x 1st Team All Pro, 2x 2nd Team All Pro. Voted 18th best player in league by his peers. Okay....everyone talk me off the ledge again this year. >>
At this point IMO, both players have done enough, for long enough to warrant inclusion on the set.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Okay.....I'm going to run the poll on the two players I propose:
Patrick Wills 2 Yes 0 No Joe Thomas 2 Yes 0 No
Post your votes and I will update periodically. Does one week sound like a long enough duration? Also, if we vote them to the set, I am assuming 2007 Topps Chrome for both.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Other than it being a Probstein auction, anyone have a clue why the PSA 9 2003 SPA Witten sold for $200 back in August? That seems higher than a 10 price.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
<< <i>Other than it being a Probstein auction, anyone have a clue why the PSA 9 2003 SPA Witten sold for $200 back in August? That seems higher than a 10 price. >>
Did that really happen? That's absurd.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Looks like rolling or chipping to me. However, the writing right through the middle of the jersey looks like a kid trying cursive and finishing in print. What does that say? I can make out the "OOPE" for the last 4 letters, the the first ones, I can't tell.
The right edge of that Bronko just looks like a rolled/scuffed edge that was picked up brighter by the scanner. I don't think it's actually whiteout or anything physically on the card.
Comments
<< <i>I do not understand why Howley has not even been nominated by the senior committee! If the electors have an issue with how many 1960's/1970's Cowboys are in the HOF they should of nominated Howley before Hayes or Wright. In my opinion he should of gone in before Tippett, R.Jackson, Hanburger, Richter, Robinson, D.Thomas, H. Carson, and D. Wilcox.
I am clueless as to why he is not been inducted to the HOF. I have not seen a ton of footage of him but a handful of games and clips and in those he played like a guy who was a Pro Bowler 6 times and All Pro 5 times. >>
Agree! And I'm a Harry Carson fan..
For me, I'd rather see the Senior Committee focus on the guys who were never debated or discussed before. If someone has already been a Finalist a couple of times and didn't get elected, maybe that's the right answer. But, if their name never came up in the first place, that (for me) would be a better use of the Senior Committee's resources.
Anyway, just my $0.02. Either way, more chances to talk about football is okay by me.
<< <i>Does the Senior Committee have a stated mandate or criteria to use to guide their selections? On the one hand, you have guys who have been thoroughly considered already, either as part of the regular nomination process as Finalists or Semi-Finalists. These guys seem to have had their chance. Then on the other hand, you have guys who were never really considered in the first place. Either they didn't make the list of nominees or fell off the ballot too quickly or were old-timers who never had their shot. These guys seem like they deserve a little more thought and consideration.
For me, I'd rather see the Senior Committee focus on the guys who were never debated or discussed before. If someone has already been a Finalist a couple of times and didn't get elected, maybe that's the right answer. But, if their name never came up in the first place, that (for me) would be a better use of the Senior Committee's resources.
Anyway, just my $0.02. Either way, more chances to talk about football is okay by me. >>
For me, if you had the ability to be on the top 15 (now 25) and never made it once in the 20 years you had eligibility you are shut out. You only need to make the finals once to be considered. I just don't get the senior guys. I know it is hugely political but there process is seriously flawed.
My issue is what some of you expressed here in the thread. The voters have agendas. There are too few voters. You get 3 of the 5 who come to Canton who have an agenda towards a player and you end up with an underwhelming candidate. To me, this is what has created weak selections the last few. Lowering the seniors down to 1 again every once in awhile maybe will help them refocus.
For the record, I personally think Mick Tingelhoff was one of the most deserving seniors, and has been for quite a few years. If the Vikings had won even ONE of those Super Bowls during their run, he would have been in long ago. But those losses, coupled with his poor play in some of those games made it very easily to bypass him in the past. I'm glad he's finally in. Only Jerry Kramer an equally or more deserving O-Lineman IMO.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I am clueless as to why he is not been inducted to the HOF. I have not seen a ton of footage of him but a handful of games and clips and in those he played like a guy who was a Pro Bowler 6 times and All Pro 5 times. >>
I agree! Not to mention that Howley is still the only Super Bowl MVP from a losing team. I think he's the most glaring HOF omission, followed by Jerry Kramer. I can't argue with Tingelhoff's selection because I think he's very deserving, but Howley and Kramer should have both been inducted a looooong time ago. >>
I personally think he most deserving candidate is another Packer that was a five time straight All Pro End. Lavvie Dilweg should have been in one off the first classes in 1963-1966. If you look at the All Time team from the 20's he is one of only two not in.
All Time team of the 20's >>
Dilweg should have been inducted decades ago, probably in place of Wayne (how am I in the HOF) Millner.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Agree on Dilweg. He's saddled by a few factors. Major one being he played so long ago, no one remembers him. And there isnt much footage to go by to form a new opinion. Millner will always be one of those head scratchers that slipped by. At this point, can't invision a scenario where Dilweg gets in. He just doesnt have the support, and doubt any of the Senior committee present or future has the wherewithal to push him enough to ever get him selected.
Mark him up as a conversation piece you can have about the guys who should be in but never will be.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I found one:
JAHRI EVANS: Saints, Guard, 5-time Pro Bowler & 4-time First-Team All-Pro in an 8 year career.
Beckett does not list a RC for him, but his first card in a regular set is 2010 Topps #319.
What do you think? and did anyone else find a deserving candidate that has not been discussed before.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I am clueless as to why he is not been inducted to the HOF. I have not seen a ton of footage of him but a handful of games and clips and in those he played like a guy who was a Pro Bowler 6 times and All Pro 5 times. >>
I agree! Not to mention that Howley is still the only Super Bowl MVP from a losing team. I think he's the most glaring HOF omission, followed by Jerry Kramer. I can't argue with Tingelhoff's selection because I think he's very deserving, but Howley and Kramer should have both been inducted a looooong time ago. >>
I personally think he most deserving candidate is another Packer that was a five time straight All Pro End. Lavvie Dilweg should have been in one off the first classes in 1963-1966. If you look at the All Time team from the 20's he is one of only two not in.
All Time team of the 20's >>
There is no doubt that Lavvie Dilweg should be in. I just hope it doesn't happen until AFTER I find an autograph from him FIRST.
Rocke
<< <i>Every once in a while I will check the active players achievements to see if there was anyone who is up and coming or I just missed that could be considered as a future HOFer.
I found one:
JAHRI EVANS: Saints, Guard, 5-time Pro Bowler & 4-time First-Team All-Pro in an 8 year career.
Beckett does not list a RC for him, but his first card in a regular set is 2010 Topps #319.
What do you think? and did anyone else find a deserving candidate that has not been discussed before. >>
Patrick Willis
Joe Thomas
Darrelle Revis
Andre Johnson
Jason Peters
Terrell Suggs
Jared Allen
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Albert ‘Al’ Wistert
Positions: Tackle-Guard
Team: 1943-51 Philadelphia Eagles
Hall of Fame coach George Allen listed Wistert as one of the 100 best pro players of all-time in his book Pro Football’s 100 Greatest Players and also selected him as one of the 10 best defensive linemen of all-time.
“He always played in perfect position and was seldom off his feet,” Allen wrote of Wistert’s defensive abilities. “He was a superb pursuit man and seemed somehow to get in on every play. He was a sure tackler. He was maybe best against the run, but he was among the good early pass rushers.”
Of Wistert as an offensive lineman, Allen wrote, “He was as fine a blocker as you could want. He didn’t have the size to overpower people on the pass block, but he was a master of every kind of block.”
Prior to Wistert’s arrival in Philadelphia, the Eagles never had a season of .500 or better in their history. They finished .500 or better eight of the nine seasons that he was on the team. Prior to his arrival, the Eagles cumulative winning percentage was .219. During his tenure, they went .649. The Eagles have won three NFL championships in their history. Two of them came while Wistert was on the team.
Offensively, the Eagles led the NFL in rushing yards three times during Wistert’s career. That had never happened prior to Wistert’s arrival, and the team has only done so once in the 60 years since he retired.
Philadelphia led the NFL in points scored three times during Wistert’s career. That feat had never happened before his arrival and has never been achieved by the team since. Four times during Wistert’s career an Eagle running back led the NFL in rushing yards. No Philadelphia RB had ever done so before Wistert joined the team and none has done so since.
Defensively, the Eagles led the NFL in fewest points allowed twice during Wistert’s career; something that never happened prior to his arrival. The Eagles led the NFL in fewest yards allowed three times during Wistert’s career; a first for the team. Philadelphia led the NFL in fewest rushing yards allowed five times during Wistert’s career; a franchise first.
Wistert was named to at least one major first all-pro team six times (consecutively 1944-49), including five times consensus (1944-48). In the four seasons from 1946 through 1949, various major news agencies selected combined all-NFL/AAFC teams. Wistert was named first team on at least one of those teams in all four seasons: 1946 (AP), 1947 (AP, Sportswriters Inc.), 1948 (Sportswriters Inc., The Sporting News), and 1949 (International News Service).
No other player accomplished this feat, including none of the 16 Hall of Famers who played all four of those seasons. Of the 10 all-NFL/AAFC teams selected from 1946-49, Wistert was named to six. Only Mac Speedie and Hall of Famers Steve Van Buren and Bulldog Turner were named to more (Speedie will be discussed in more detail, later, in this article).
Wistert was named to the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s all-decade team of the 1940s. He was also named by the Professional Football Researchers Association to their very first class of the Hall of Very Good in 2003.
In The Hidden Game of Football, football historians Bob Carroll, Pete Palmer and John Thorn analyzed the Hall of Fame credentials of hundreds of players. They determined that of all the players not in the Hall of Fame, Wistert was the most deserving of enshrinement.
I'm sold
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Fred Dean 10
Yeah, it's a rhetorical question. I know that all you need are 2 heavy hitters to come along to skew the values, but this is just silly. Makes we wish I had one to sell.
<< <i>How does a PSA 10 '78 Fred Dean sell for $810 on eBay in February, while this one is just a hair under $3,000 and still going?
Fred Dean 10
Yeah, it's a rhetorical question. I know that all you need are 2 heavy hitters to come along to skew the values, but this is just silly. Makes we wish I had one to sell.
Interesting bidding patterns on most of these rare listings, will say that much. True value is probably closer to what the 3rd highest bidder ends up bidding.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I am focusing on percentage and not the grade now so if you need to dump a PSA 2, now is the time.
Link to Troy's Set
Junior Seau
Kurt Warner
Marvin Harrison
Charles Haley
Jerome Bettis
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Junior Seau
Kurt Warner
Marvin Harrison
Charles Haley
Jerome Bettis >>
+1
I also think Tingelhoff is a lock from the Senior pool. I suppose someone like Kevin Greene or Tim Brown could sneak in, but I think the 5 above are most likely.
<< <i>
<< <i>Junior Seau
Kurt Warner
Marvin Harrison
Charles Haley
Jerome Bettis >>
+1
I also think Tingelhoff is a lock from the Senior pool. I suppose someone like Kevin Greene or Tim Brown could sneak in, but I think the 5 above are most likely. >>
Both Tingelhoff and whoever the contributor they select are both going to get in with no problem. As a means to support this new process. Neither has any competition unlike the modern guys.
Greene could replace Haley, entirely feasible. But Haley has made the cut down to 10 for 3 straight years. Only person to do that and NOT get elected in the following year was Andre Reed. He made the cut down to 10 four times before getting elected the following year. Greene made the cut to 10 for the first time last tear, so would seem he has a tad less support than Haley. But Greene is a very popular guy while Haley is not...So, could happen.
Don't see anyway Tim Brown will leapfrog Harrison. Marvin made the cut to 10 in his first year of eligibility which essentially guarantees he will go in this year..Unless some negative press or something comes out about between now and then (as if we need any more at this point on any players..lol).
The 5th and final Modern Era slot is pretty wide open at this point. I've got Bettis finally getting in after making the cut to 10 both of the past 2 years. Would not be surprised to see Will Shields, Orlando Pace, Tony Dungy or even John Lynch sneaking up to take the 5th slot. Not hearing anything on any other players/coaches that makes me think anyone else really has an outside shot who I didn't just list above. The top 3 are about as lock as it gets...Would be shocked if Haley OR Greene doesn't take the 4th spot as well. Confident in giving it a 90% that one of those 2 are selected this year. The 5th spot is going to be very interesting to watch.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
interesting to me that this whole story just seemed to disappear after a couple years.
I wonder if the NFL may whisper to the voters that it might not be the best time to elect Harrison to the HOF.
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>With all the trouble currently in the NFL, questions about Marvin Harrison and a gun charge, lead me to believe that there will be no Harrison, >>
Will be interesting to see how the votes play out. Harrison's issues are from a few years ago, and nothing new has came up or been in the news. He made it to the final 10 last year in his first year eligible. Hard to say where the media hype will be by the time January 31st rolls around. If he gets bypassed again, will open the door for the others I mentioned as well as for Tim Brown.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>I would think that this is not the year the doors open for Harrison. Too much negative press would come along with it. >>
I think it's important to remember, the Pro Football HOF and the NFL are completely separate entities...Also, the press is who does the voting...I do agree his past issues keeping him out is a valid point and could very well happen. But IMO, if he gets bypassed this year, it will create more issues as it pertains to HOF voting bylaws. Which specifically state no off-field issues will be considered. If he does or doesn't go will rest fully upon the press itself though, and it won't matter that the NFL office wants or what the public wants.
Until I hear something otherwise from a voter/voters I'm going to stick with my prediction that he goes in. If anyone hears or reads differently post here. If the voters flat out say they aren't voting him in because of the fallout created by the Ray Rice issue, I can see the entire process being changed/overhauled.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Were the HOF bylaws in place when they decided to NOT vote in Jim Tyrer, when he became eligible?
Tyrer was arguably the second best offensive lineman in AFL history behind Jim Otto, played in two
Super Bowls, was all-pro many years at tackle.
Tyrer's murder/suicide was just sad, but it did happen several years after he retired and of course, off the field.
Maybe his circumstances were looked at differently by the voters.
He was a hof finalist in only 1 year 1981
Has this ever been attributed to the head pounding and nervous system damage...most likely like Seau
and many others?
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>Jason,
Were the HOF bylaws in place when they decided to NOT vote in Jim Tyrer, when he became eligible?
Tyrer was arguably the second best offensive lineman in AFL history behind Jim Otto, played in two
Super Bowls, was all-pro many years at tackle.
Tyrer's murder/suicide was just sad, but it did happen several years after he retired and of course, off the field.
Maybe his circumstances were looked at differently by the voters. >>
I disagree he was 2nd best....I'll take Ron Mix, who also played OT...Other than Mix and Otto, Billy Shaw (Guard) the only other OL from the AFL in the HOF. Tyrer passed away in the murder/suicide in Sept 1980. he was eligible for the HOF Class of 1980, which was PRIOR to the event, and he wasn't voted as a top 15 finalist in his first year eligible. He was a finalist for the Class of 1981, immediatley following the personal event. His case was discussed, and it certainly COULD have played a part. But it should be noted, he wasn't immediately inducted or even to the list of finalist PRIOR to the event. Marvin Harrison however, was voted to the top 10 in his first year. Marvin Harrison's accusation was that he killed a known thug/drug dealer vs. his own wife or himself.
I mean is there ANY question on Junior Seau going in? VERY recent suicide and he will be the bell cow of the class. Won't be any question on Ray Lewis either, even with his issues. First ballot. So more than anything, it boils down to quality of the player. At best, Jim Tyrer was/is a borderline HOF candidate. Personally I think he is deserving, but most likely we will never see another OL from the AFL put into the HOF. They were simply too hard to judge against inferior D-Line talent to what the NFL was producing at the time (Buck Buchanan the only AFL D-Line HOFer)
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
1948 Doak Walker PSA 4
1948 Charley Trippi PSA 3
1952 Frank Gifford PSA 4
1957 Raymond Berry PSA 3
1961 Don Maynard PSA 7
1968 Floyd Little PSA 7
1969 Larry Csonka PAS 6
1990 Emmitt Smith PSA 8
This will keep me in 30th place but put me at 89.61% complete. Gotta make the 90% card special. Anyone able to help me out?
My Set
<< <i>I'm back again....sounding trumpets for the inclusion of Joe Thomas into the Future HOF set. I would also throw Patrick Willis into the mix, but I'll limit the discussion to one player. And I am not a Browns fan...I am a Titans fan, but this guy is the real deal. Legit skills AND he has now played 100 games. 115 to be exact. 7x Pro Bowler (every season in the league, only 1 of 11 players to do this), 4x 1st Team All Pro, 2x 2nd Team All Pro. Voted 18th best player in league by his peers. Okay....everyone talk me off the ledge again this year. >>
At this point IMO, both players have done enough, for long enough to warrant inclusion on the set.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Patrick Wills 2 Yes 0 No
Joe Thomas 2 Yes 0 No
Post your votes and I will update periodically. Does one week sound like a long enough duration? Also, if we vote them to the set, I am assuming 2007 Topps Chrome for both.
Joe Thomas 3 Yes 0 No
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Patrick Willis 6 Yes 0 No
Joe Thomas 6 Yes 0 No
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>Yes to both as well >>
+1
<< <i>Other than it being a Probstein auction, anyone have a clue why the PSA 9 2003 SPA Witten sold for $200 back in August? That seems higher than a 10 price. >>
Did that really happen? That's absurd.
<< <i>Did that really happen? That's absurd. >>
It did. August 7th, with 11 bids. I was shocked.
Patrick Willis 8 Yes 0 No
Joe Thomas 8 Yes 0 No
Bronko
<< <i>What are you thoughts on the right border of this Bronko. It is sold already but PSA gave it a MK. What is it? Whiteout?
Bronko >>
Looks like rolling or chipping to me. However, the writing right through the middle of the jersey looks like a kid trying cursive and finishing in print. What does that say? I can make out the "OOPE" for the last 4 letters, the the first ones, I can't tell.
but you can clearly see erased writing on front of card
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets