Nice break down Jason. I agree with your first five.
I think we can also add if Randall McDaniel gets in John Randle (long shot) does not, and vice verso.
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>Nice break down Jason. I agree with your first five.
I think we can also add if Randall McDaniel gets in John Randle (long shot) does not, and vice verso. >>
Great point, absolutely correct. Carter getting in would seem to lessen McDaniel's and/or Randle's chances..Last year was a rarity putting Green and Monk in together. It went over very well though, I mean Redskin Nation came out in full force at the induction ceremony. I think it likely could become a much more common occurance.
Yes, Randle would be a very long shot his first year. He has some detractors (specifically his weakness against the run) and all it takes is 9 of the 44 not thinking he's at the head of the line...Give it 2-3 years and he'll probably get in. With Cortez coming from being just a nominee to being a finalists in just a couple years, he might be inline before Randle at DT. But IMO, Randle was better for longer.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Jason, Who are the 'first ballot' HOFers coming up in 2010 & 2011? Todd >>
These are the strongest candidates the next 2 years. I don't know that we will see more than 3 first ballot guys in one given year though. At least it's never happened before..2011 might be the first though.
Jerry Rice WR 2010 Emmitt Smith RB 2010 Tim Brown WR 2010 Aeneas Williams CB 2010 Gary Anderson K 2010
Deion Sanders CB 2011 Marshall Faulk RB 2011 William Roaf OL 2011 Jerome Bettis RB 2011 Curtis Martin RB 2011
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
So from your statement saying that 2011 might be the first year with 3 first timers, I see you dont think Brown will get in on his first try. I would think that might make it little harder for 2011 then, wouldnt you?
Jay
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
So from your statement saying that 2011 might be the first year with 3 first timers, I see you dont think Brown will get in on his first try. I would think that might make it little harder for 2011 then, wouldnt you?
Jay >>
Sorry, should read FOUR first timers..We've had 3 first ballot guys in one year quite a few times....
To answer your question, no I do not think Tim Brown will get in first or second ballot. My guess would be 2012 or 2013. Zero 1st team all-pro selections really hurts his case. Pro Bowl selections are almost becoming meaningless. Its many of these same HOF voters who vote for the MVP's, Player of the Year and NFL All-Pro's each year..They seem to give those selections a much higher weight than Pro Bowls which is 1/3 fans stuffing ballot boxes for their hometown teams...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I don't see Tim Brown as a first time either. He was consistent but not the Greatest at any given time. Don't get me wrong. Great player. Just has a hard time getting in ahead of others. He will get in though.
I know I am looking ahead , but how do you feel about Curtis Martin's (RB 2011) chances?
Todd >>
I think he will be slotted behind Faulk and Bettis...Doesn't mean he won't get in, but 3 RBs and 4 first ballot guys in one year?? Would be the strangest Class I've ever seen....
He's a lock to be in NLT 2012 though, which is somewhat of a weak year with possibly zero first ballot guys...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
What do you guys think the chances are of Jerry Kramer ever getting inducted, I think he is as deserving as the other Packer greats from the 60's probably even more than Hornung IMO.
<< <i>What do you guys think the chances are of Jerry Kramer ever getting inducted, I think he is as deserving as the other Packer greats from the 60's probably even more than Hornung IMO.
Doc >>
I think very good. Obviously, he can only be selected as a Senior, and based on things I heard about last years senior vote, Kramer is one of my favorites to be a Senior selection next year..If you go back in this thread to around Aug/Sept you'll see I had already posted that....My early picks are Kramer and Gradishar...
If Kuechenberg gets pushed back to the Seniors pool next year, I think it will actually HELP Kramer's chances. The committee will likely be looking at OLs next year along with LBs...On the OL side, it would be between Kramer, Tingelhoff and Kuechenberg...While I personally feel Tingelhoff is a tad more deserving than Kramer, Kramer will likely get in before him. The thing that could keep Kramer out is if they decide on Dave Robinson as one of the selections first. No way they'd put 2 Packers from the same team in the same year IMO...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I would also give him the nod because of all the work he does as one of the founders of the Gridiron Greats organization. Unlike Ditka though he keeps a pretty low profile and thus might hurt his chances because he's rarely in the news.
<< <i>The committee will likely be looking at OLs next year along with LBs... >>
I've got on OL for them . . . AL "OX" W-I-S-T-E-R-T!!! >>
Wistert falls into the pre-war player, of which the positions they played are secondary to the fact that they played in a completely different era of the game.
I would have like to see Wistert rather than Goldberg last year...We knew based on who the 5 senior committee members were that a pre-war guy was highly likely, you can look back in this thread and see that I pointed it out prior to the selections... Unfortunately they chose probably the weakest choice mostly based on the players religion rather than consistent HOF play on the field.
According to the future rotations of the 5 senior members going to Canton, IMO it will likely be Class of 2011 before they consider selecting another pre-war guy. Of course things can and do change, but I just don't see next years crew taking a pre-war guy.
Hopefully Wistert or Lavie Dilweg will be the next pre-war guy chosen. But it is very likely going to be a couple of years. On the bright side, Wistert was the ONLY pre-war player to make the Senior Semifinalist for 2009. He and Goldberg the only ones to make the semifinal list in 2008...It would seem Wistert WILL be the next pre-war guy down the road.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>It would seem Wistert WILL be the next pre-war guy down the road. >>
Doesn't hurt to start the campaign now... Al laughed when I told him I would be writing letters and posting on various sites on the Internet. It would be fantastic to see a deserving pre-war player inducted who would be able to attend the induction.
BTW, almost all of Al's career was post WWII (1943-1951).
Just a little about Al:
Wistert earned All-Pro honors in eight (five by consensus) from 1944-1951. As a two-way player, he played his entire nine-year career for the Philadelphia Eagles and is credited with introducing the stand-up blocking technique he perfected while an All-American at Michigan.
The National Football League had no All-Star (Pro Bowl) games between 1943 and 1950. Thus, although Wistert was a perennial All-Pro selection, it is difficult to compare him to more modern players who are often measured by Pro Bowl invitations. He was selected to the Pro Bowl for the 1950 season.
<< <i>It would seem Wistert WILL be the next pre-war guy down the road. >>
Doesn't hurt to start the campaign now... Al laughed when I told him I would be writing letters and posting on various sites on the Internet. It would be fantastic to see a deserving pre-war player inducted who would be able to attend the induction.
BTW, almost all of Al's career was post WWII (1943-1951).
Just a little about Al:
Wistert earned All-Pro honors in eight (five by consensus) from 1944-1951. As a two-way player, he played his entire nine-year career for the Philadelphia Eagles and is credited with introducing the stand-up blocking technique he perfected while an All-American at Michigan.
The National Football League had no All-Star (Pro Bowl) games between 1943 and 1950. Thus, although Wistert was a perennial All-Pro selection, it is difficult to compare him to more modern players who are often measured by Pro Bowl invitations. He was selected to the Pro Bowl for the 1950 season. >>
Scott agreed...Pro Football HOF actually considers pre-modern players ones who played before 1946. I just use the term pre-war because it's a popular baseball card term, but being "by the book" correct to the football HOF, it's pre-modern.
Also, I fully support your campaign for Wistert (you certainly aren't the first are only one pushing for him), but I don't know if posting here is going to help his case...Have you tried e-mailing the voting members of the senior committee? Honestly, if they don't select him as one of the 2 finalists, any of the campaigning you do will be moot. At least of few of them are voting for him, because he's made it from the initial list of senior nominees to the list of 15-17 semifinalist the last 2 years. Takes at least some votes from the 9 voting members of the committee to get him there.
Hey, shoot an e-mail a day to each of them for the next 8 months telling them you won't stop unless he is selected...lol. It worked for Art Monk!
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Have you tried e-mailing the voting members of the senior committee? Honestly, if they don't select him as one of the 2 finalists, any of the campaigning you do will be moot. At least of few of them are voting for him, because he's made it from the initial list of senior nominees to the list of 15-17 semifinalist the last 2 years. Takes at least some votes from the 9 voting members of the committee to get him there. >>
And these voting members would be? email addys? If you've got 'em, let me know and I'm on it!
I've posted elsewhere. Just fun to redundantly post it here.
<< <i>Have you tried e-mailing the voting members of the senior committee? Honestly, if they don't select him as one of the 2 finalists, any of the campaigning you do will be moot. At least of few of them are voting for him, because he's made it from the initial list of senior nominees to the list of 15-17 semifinalist the last 2 years. Takes at least some votes from the 9 voting members of the committee to get him there. >>
And these voting members would be? email addys? If you've got 'em, let me know and I'm on it!
I've posted elsewhere. Just fun to redundantly post it here. >>
Scott, I'll shoot you a PM tomorrow with e-mail addresses. Just don't tell them where you got it...Especially if you are going to campaign for someone and make them hate you..lol
I think you will find that the ones who reply to your e-mails (not all will) will likely point out that MOST of the Senior AND Modern candidates also have fans, former players, current players, owners and coaches all campaigning for them too!!! I've had a few debates will a couple of the voters through the years over one guy or another. My advice: Make sure you bring a point to the table that is something they don't already know! The insta-bio you posted earlier is common knowledge...If you know Al, see if you can get a story or some info that might make them pay attention and listen to your points...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Dave, no he doesn't have a valid rookie card. Much like about 20 or so other players from the era...
PFRA is a great resource. I should also direct your attention to some of their historical articles. A wealth of great information for anyone interested in the old timers.
PFRA has been around a long time. I assumed all the serious HOF collector's already knew of it?
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>PFRA has been around a long time. I assumed all the serious HOF collector's already knew of it? >>
I had no idea.....Any other sites your holding back from us..?? >>
I just posted it above...
Coffin Corner...
Jaosn
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Yes, definitely a younger crowd doing the voting...Almost all of the guys who've played in the last 10 years are at the top, and guys who haven't played in the last 10 years towards the bottom.
Such is life...Hero one minute, forgotten the next...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
What is funny is if you put that list upside down two of the bottom four (Hayes and Mr. Claude) will most likely get in. Reminds me of me when I first started doing this set. CLUELESS.
I have a feeling Kuechenberg is not getting in this year (his last as a modern candidate). I have predicted him the last 2 classes only to see him just miss. With Dr. Z (one of Keuchenberg's most vocal proponents) most likely not going to be able to attend the meeting this year because of health issues...I think Kuech's chances are slipping.
Its unfortunate that he's been punished by the fact that Langer and Little are already in from that line..Its the same thing that has helped keep Jerry Kramer and LC Greenwood out of the Hall. I thinking either McDaniel gets in, or the HOF simply only electing 6 players instead of 7 this year.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Hey guys, thought I would share this. Probably one of the best insight you will ever get on the process of electing HOFers..FROM a HOF voter...Enjoy...........
When Cris Carter didn't make the Pro Football Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility last year, his colleagues on "Inside the NFL'' had a nice cry about it afterward.
Take it from a 15-year-member of the Board of Selectors, Cris Carter is a Hall of Famer. If he doesn't make it this year - and he probably will - he will make it next year or the year after. Anyone who makes it to the finals in his first year is about 99.9 percent sure of getting inducted. So are most of those who make it to the finals more than a handful of times.
The Hall of Fame finalists were made public this week. But don't ask this voter who will get in because he doesn't know. Nor does he know, except in a few cases, who he'll end up supporting. But he does want to explain the process.
So what follows is a primer that, hopefully, will clear up a few of the misunderstandings about why some people make it, why some don't. But start with this rule: Even we, the voters, are often unsure of what happens when final ballots are tallied. And even we, the voters, are often forced to vote against someone we think is worthy as the number of candidates is reduced from 17 to 10 to the seven on whom we will vote yes or no for induction that particular year.
Carter is a good example of how the real system works.
It's informal. It's one that's rarely articulated except, at times, in private conversations among voters outside "the room,'' the hotel parlor in the Super Bowl city where the debate is held each year. But it's a system that voters absorb as they go along, returning every winter to consider which four, five, six or seven of the 17 finalists to enshrine in Canton.
To start with, the 44 voters, a number that's increasing gradually, are divided into two categories - "at large,'' like this one, or voters representing a team, even those now defunct - who are responsible for "presenting'' players from their cities. It's an imperfect system, especially if the presenter either doesn't think his candidate is especially worthy. But right now it's the best one that exists.
In an informal way, the candidates can be broken down into categories.
1. "Slam dunk,'' a term stolen from another sport.
Darrell Green last year; Dan Marino, John Elway, Joe Montana, Emmitt Smith in recent years. Jerry Rice in upcoming years. Bruce Smith and perhaps Rod Woodson in this year's class. Very little debate.
When Walter Payton was up for selection, his presenter unrolled a long scroll of paper, perhaps 20 yards long, and said "these are his accomplishments. I could read them all but I don't think I have to.'' Then he tossed the paper on the floor.
No discussion. Election.
2. Sure to get in quickly, many of whom provoke a "Why didn't he make it?'' debate if they don't get in the first time they are up.
Carter is in this category. So were Thurman Thomas and Michael Irvin, who made it on their second and third times around. They sometimes are held back because priority might go to candidates left over from previous selection processes; seniority isn't discussed, but it's there. Carter most likely failed last year because voters decided that Art Monk, another wide receiver, had been kept waiting long enough. Carter and his advocates can argue that he was "better'' than Monk. He might have been. But seniority prevailed and Carter will get his due.
3. The debate provokers.
Many are players at positions without definable stats: offensive line and some defensive positions. But even stats can be deceptive.
Monk was the career receptions leader with 940 when he retired. His supporters portrayed him as the perfect possession receiver, a player would always get you 10 yards on third-and-9. His detractors suggested that opponents didn't fear him as much as some of his teammates. It also may have hurt him that he was naturally quiet and rarely talked to the media very much. This voter doesn't worry about those things. Others might. But the numbers eventually prevailed.
Another in this group was Harry Carson, the former Giants linebacker. He had a split career. In the first part, he was by far the best player on bad teams, a superstar playing on a loser. In the second part, he was a winner, the captain of a Super Bowl champion who played next to Lawrence Taylor. The anti-Carsons suggested he benefited from Taylor's presence. The pro-Carsons noted how good he was on a bad team and how much he helped even Taylor on a good one.
Again, it took a while, but he crept up the board and finally made it. Deservedly.
Are there guys like that on this year's ballot? Maybe Andre Reed, who as a receiver will have a difficult time in the future as Rice and Tim Brown and others move in. Perhaps Dermonnti Dawson and Randall McDaniel, two deserving offensive linemen.
4. Contributors.
Always a murky category, a group often put aside by those who believe players should take priority. There are two on the ballot this year: former commissioner Paul Tagliabue and Buffalo Bills owner Ralph Wilson.
Tagliabue is in a category all to himself. His supporters, and there are many in "the room,'' point simply to his accomplishments: labor peace, huge increases in television revenues, and the increasing popularity of the game. Detractors suggest that the potential problems in extending the current labor contract are part of his legacy, as are the lack of teams in Los Angeles and new stadiums in California.
Subtext? The fact that some voters didn't like him personally. Personal feelings shouldn't count, but people are voting, so they always do.
Of course, there always are exceptions to rules on seniority. Or on personality. Or on just about everything else.
Last year, for example, Fred Dean leapfrogged Derrick Thomas and made it. So did Andre Tippett, who spent most of his career on losing teams in New England and only came to the attention of voters midway through his period of eligibility.
Dean and Tippett had been eligible many years before they were even mentioned. But the arguments for them were good enough that they moved ahead of Thomas, who made it to the finals in his first year of eligibility. Thomas might have been hurt because, among other things, the Kansas City Chiefs may have pushed a little too hard supporting him. Voters are crusty and don't need glossy "highlight'' brochures - football is a team game, the Hall of Fame is an individual honor.
But Thomas, like Monk and Carson, seems to have reached a point where the feeling is "put him in.'' Expect it this year or next.
Then, finally, there is what is called "the Hal of Very Good,'' coined, I believe, by Peter King of Sports Illustrated, NBC and about 50 other media outlets.
Those are the players who often get considerable support from fans - outstanding players who might be just short of HOF worthiness, although many voters believe they deserve at least a debate. Try Roger Craig, Rickey Jackson, Carl Banks, Sam Mills, Leroy Butler and many others.
Another variable: A player's fate sometimes depends on the skill of his presenter - positive and negative. Some marginal players have made it because of a convincing presentation. Others have failed because theirs has been less than persuasive.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
NEW YORK: Results of The Associated Press 2008 NFL All-Pro balloting selected by a national panel of media members:
OFFENSE
Quarterback
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis, 28; Drew Brees, New Orleans, 10; Philip Rivers, San Diego, 9; Chad Pennington, Miami, 2; Kurt Warner, Arizona, 1.
y-Running Backs
Adrian Peterson, Minnesota, 45; Michael Turner, Atlanta, 40; DeAngelo Williams, Carolina, 13; Clinton Portis, Washington, 1.
Fullback
Le'Ron McClain, Baltimore, 38; Madison Hedgerock, NY Giants, 5; Mike Sellers, Washington, 4; Tony Richardson, NY Jets, 2; Ovie Mughelli, Atlanta, 1.
Tight End
Tony Gonzalez, Kansas City, 33; Jason Witten, Dallas, 14; Dallas Clark, Indianapolis, 2; Antonio Gates, San Diego, 1.
Wide Receivers
Andre Johnson, Houston, 45; Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona, 21; Steve Smith, Carolina, 16; Wes Welker, New England, 6; Anquan Boldin, Arizona, 5; Roddy White, Atlanta, 4; Brandon Marshall, Denver, 1; Randy Moss, New England, 1; Calvin Johnson, Detroit, 1.
Tackles
Jordan Gross, Carolina, 34; Michael Roos, Tennessee, 32; Ryan Clady, Denver, 14; David Stewart, Tennessee, 3; Walter Jones, Seattle, 3; Jason Peters, Buffalo, 3; David Diehl, NY Giants, 3; Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 3; Chris Samuels, Washington, 2; Jon Runyan, Philadelphia, 1; Levi Brown, Arizona, 1; Ryan Harris, Denver, 1.
Guards
Steve Hutchinson, Minnesota, 40; Chris Snee, NY Giants, 32; Kris Dielman, San Diego, 10; Alan Faneca, NY Jets, 7; Logan Mankins, New England, 4; Leonard Davis, Dallas, 2; Travelle Wharton, Carolina, 2; Harvey Dahl, Atlanta, 1; Ben Grubbs, Baltimore, 1; Justin Smiley, Miami, 1.
Center
Kevin Mawae, Tennessee, 25; Shaun O'Hara, NY Giants, 18; Nick Mangold, NY Jets, 3; Jeff Saturday, Indianapolis, 2; Casey Wiegmann, Denver, 1; Todd McClure, Atlanta, 1.
Placekicker
Stephen Gostkowski, New England, 28; John Carney, NY Giants, 13; Rob Bironas, Tennessee, 3; Jason Hanson, Detroit, 3; Phil Dawson, Cleveland, 2; Jason Elam, Atlanta, 1.
Kick Returner
Leon Washington, NY Jets, 19; Clifton Smith, Tampa Bay, 16; Leodis McKelvin, Buffalo, 4; Josh Cribbs, Cleveland, 4; Darren Sproles, San Diego, 2 1/2; Johnnie Lee Higgins, Oakland, 1 1/2; Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo, 1; Justin Miller, Oakland, 1; Reggie Bush, New Orleans, 1.
___
DEFENSE
Ends
Justin Tuck, NY Giants, 26; Jared Allen, Minnesota, 21; Julius Peppers, Carolina, 20; John Abraham, Atlanta, 17; Mario Williams, Houston, 8; Dwight Freeney, Indianapolis, 4; Aaron Smith, Pittsburgh, 2; DeMarcus Ware, Dallas, 1; Trent Cole, Philadelphia, 1.
Tackles
Albert Haynesworth, Tennessee, 49; Kevin Williams, Minnesota, 25; Kris Jenkins, NY Jets, 11; Haloti Ngata, Baltimore, 6; Jay Ratliff, Dallas, 3; Casey Hampton, Pittsburgh, 2; Shaun Rogers, Cleveland, 2; Pat Williams, Minnesota, 1; Fred Robbins, NY Giants, 1.
Outside Linebackers
DaMarcus Ware, Dallas, 45; James Harrison, Pittsburgh, 38; Joey Porter, Miami, 13; Terrell Suggs, Baltimore, 2; LaMarr Woodley, Pittsburgh 1; Derrick Brooks, Tampa Bay, 1.
y-Inside Linebacker
Ray Lewis, Baltimore, 39; Jon Beason, Carolina, 18; Patrick Willis, San Francisco, 17; James Farrior, Pittsburgh, 12; London Fletcher, Washington, 8; Barrett Ruud, Tampa Bay, 1; James Harrison, Pittsburgh, 1; Stewart Bradley, Philadelphia, 1; Bart Scott, Baltimore, 1; Jerod Mayo, New England, 1.
Cornerbacks
Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland, 32; Cortland Finnegan, Tennessee, 31; Charles Woodson, Green Bay, 17; Antoine Winfield, Minnesota, 10; Asante Samuel, New England, 3; Darrelle Revis, NY Jets, 2; Champ Bailey, Denver, 1; Ronde Barber, Tampa Bay, 1; Corey Webster, NY Giants 1; Will Allen, Miami, 1; Terence Newman, Dallas, 1.
Safeties
Ed Reed, Baltimore, 50; Troy Polamalu, Pittsburgh, 46; Adrian Wilson, Arizona, 2; Quintin Mikell, Philadelphia, 1; Nick Collins, Green Bay, 1.
Punter
Shane Lechler, Oakland, 25; Donnie Jones, Miami, 10; Jeff Feagles, NY Giants, 6; Sam Koch, Baltimore, 5; Mike Scifres, San Diego, 3; Brad Maynard, Chicago, 1.
___
x-one voter selected only one running back.
y-one voter selected only one inside linebacker.
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thanks for the read Jason, nice to hear DT is in the higher end of the group. With that, I would make my HOF prediction.
Bruce Smith Rod Woodson Cris Carter Derrick Thomas Randall McDaniel
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
The all important 2008 1st Team All-Pros..THESE selections have a major impact on future HOF status.
QB- Peyton Manning RB- Adrian Peterson RB- Michael Turner FB- LeRon McClain TE- Tony Gonzalez WR- Andre Johnson WR- Larry Fitzgerald OT- Jordan Gross OT-Michael Roos OG- Steve Hutchinson OG- Chris Snee C- Kevin Mawae
DE- Justin Tuck DE- Jared Allen DT- Albert Haynesworth DT- Kevin Williams OLB- DeMarcus Ware OLB- James Harrison MLB- Ray Lewis MLB- Jon Beason CB- Nnamdi Asomugha CB- Cortland Finnegan S- Ed Reed S- Troy Polamalu
K- Stephen Gostkowski P- Shane Lechler KR- Leon Washington
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Thanks for the read Jason, nice to hear DT is in the higher end of the group. With that, I would make my HOF prediction.
Bruce Smith Rod Woodson Cris Carter Derrick Thomas Randall McDaniel >>
Solid choices..I had DT in my predictions until Claude Humphrey was picked as a Senior. I just don't see them voting in THREE pass rushers in one year...DT and Cris Carter are the best choices of any of the players who have missed being inducted in the past IMO..
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>It would be helpful to know how many times each of the first teamers have been selected. >>
Dave, I will post all that when I start the voting thread for this years Future HOF Modern additions...Here's who will be on my initial ballot:
Any active players with 6 or more Pro Bowls Any active players with 4 or more 1st Team All-Pros Any retired players who have been a HOF Finalist the last 5 years Any retired player who have been a HOF semi-finalist more than once in the last 5 years Lastly, any active player not meeting the above that has reached a significant statistical milestone this season
I would post it now, but I don't have my stick drive with me with the necessary information. Give me about 4 hours and I will start the thread.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Hey Jason, I loved the story about Walter Payton's presenter, that was terrific.
Doc >>
I agree and had never heard the Payton story....I had heard of similar things, one being John Elway where the presentor simply stood up and said "John Elway" and sat back down..lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Jason, could you give us an answer on what you think would be James Harrison's potential registry card in the future? >>
I really have no idea..I don't know anything at all about rookies newer than 2004. Harrison won't be on my radar for 3-4 more years as far as HOF consideration goes.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Hey Guys, which Cortez Kennedy rookie card would be in the HOF set?
Thanks, Doc >>
Doc, check out the 1990's NFL Team of the Decade set on the Football Key Card Registry. Kennedy's top rookie is already part of that set.
He will be on our ballot for addition to the Future Modern set later today. Not sure if I will vote for him yet or not. Wasn't but a couple of years ago Kennedy was left off the NOMINEE list..Yes, the list of 100+!!! But making the semifinals last year and now moving up to the finals, his push seems to be building, so maybe we should add him???
I'm headed home now, should have the thread posted shortly...This being the 3rd time we will have done a vote for adding players to the Modern set, it almost feels like our very own HOF voting...lol..Only its all unoffical...PSA will still send out the official poll, but so far every player who got the majority vore here on the message board also got the votes to officially be added to the set.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Whats the best way to post scans? Seems I can only figure how to post as a link with 50KB max size. How does one post much larger scans directly? Thanks, and I'll post some beauties.
Comments
I think we can also add if Randall McDaniel gets in John Randle (long shot) does not, and vice verso.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Who are the 'first ballot' HOFers coming up in 2010 & 2011?
Todd
<< <i>Nice break down Jason. I agree with your first five.
I think we can also add if Randall McDaniel gets in John Randle (long shot) does not, and vice verso. >>
Great point, absolutely correct. Carter getting in would seem to lessen McDaniel's and/or Randle's chances..Last year was a rarity putting Green and Monk in together. It went over very well though, I mean Redskin Nation came out in full force at the induction ceremony. I think it likely could become a much more common occurance.
Yes, Randle would be a very long shot his first year. He has some detractors (specifically his weakness against the run) and all it takes is 9 of the 44 not thinking he's at the head of the line...Give it 2-3 years and he'll probably get in. With Cortez coming from being just a nominee to being a finalists in just a couple years, he might be inline before Randle at DT. But IMO, Randle was better for longer.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Jason,
Who are the 'first ballot' HOFers coming up in 2010 & 2011?
Todd >>
These are the strongest candidates the next 2 years. I don't know that we will see more than 3 first ballot guys in one given year though. At least it's never happened before..2011 might be the first though.
Jerry Rice WR 2010
Emmitt Smith RB 2010
Tim Brown WR 2010
Aeneas Williams CB 2010
Gary Anderson K 2010
Deion Sanders CB 2011
Marshall Faulk RB 2011
William Roaf OL 2011
Jerome Bettis RB 2011
Curtis Martin RB 2011
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
So from your statement saying that 2011 might be the first year with 3 first timers, I see you dont think Brown will get in on his first try. I would think that might make it little harder for 2011 then, wouldnt you?
Jay
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>Jason,
So from your statement saying that 2011 might be the first year with 3 first timers, I see you dont think Brown will get in on his first try. I would think that might make it little harder for 2011 then, wouldnt you?
Jay >>
Sorry, should read FOUR first timers..We've had 3 first ballot guys in one year quite a few times....
To answer your question, no I do not think Tim Brown will get in first or second ballot. My guess would be 2012 or 2013. Zero 1st team all-pro selections really hurts his case. Pro Bowl selections are almost becoming meaningless. Its many of these same HOF voters who vote for the MVP's, Player of the Year and NFL All-Pro's each year..They seem to give those selections a much higher weight than Pro Bowls which is 1/3 fans stuffing ballot boxes for their hometown teams...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I know I am looking ahead , but how do you feel about Curtis Martin's (RB 2011) chances?
Todd
<< <i>Thanks Jason.
I know I am looking ahead , but how do you feel about Curtis Martin's (RB 2011) chances?
Todd >>
I think he will be slotted behind Faulk and Bettis...Doesn't mean he won't get in, but 3 RBs and 4 first ballot guys in one year?? Would be the strangest Class I've ever seen....
He's a lock to be in NLT 2012 though, which is somewhat of a weak year with possibly zero first ballot guys...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Doc
<< <i>What do you guys think the chances are of Jerry Kramer ever getting inducted, I think he is as deserving as the other Packer greats from the 60's probably even more than Hornung IMO.
Doc >>
I think very good. Obviously, he can only be selected as a Senior, and based on things I heard about last years senior vote, Kramer is one of my favorites to be a Senior selection next year..If you go back in this thread to around Aug/Sept you'll see I had already posted that....My early picks are Kramer and Gradishar...
If Kuechenberg gets pushed back to the Seniors pool next year, I think it will actually HELP Kramer's chances. The committee will likely be looking at OLs next year along with LBs...On the OL side, it would be between Kramer, Tingelhoff and Kuechenberg...While I personally feel Tingelhoff is a tad more deserving than Kramer, Kramer will likely get in before him. The thing that could keep Kramer out is if they decide on Dave Robinson as one of the selections first. No way they'd put 2 Packers from the same team in the same year IMO...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Doc
<< <i>The committee will likely be looking at OLs next year along with LBs... >>
I've got on OL for them . . . AL "OX" W-I-S-T-E-R-T!!!
Doc
<< <i>
<< <i>The committee will likely be looking at OLs next year along with LBs... >>
I've got on OL for them . . . AL "OX" W-I-S-T-E-R-T!!! >>
Wistert falls into the pre-war player, of which the positions they played are secondary to the fact that they played in a completely different era of the game.
I would have like to see Wistert rather than Goldberg last year...We knew based on who the 5 senior committee members were that a pre-war guy was highly likely, you can look back in this thread and see that I pointed it out prior to the selections... Unfortunately they chose probably the weakest choice mostly based on the players religion rather than consistent HOF play on the field.
According to the future rotations of the 5 senior members going to Canton, IMO it will likely be Class of 2011 before they consider selecting another pre-war guy. Of course things can and do change, but I just don't see next years crew taking a pre-war guy.
Hopefully Wistert or Lavie Dilweg will be the next pre-war guy chosen. But it is very likely going to be a couple of years. On the bright side, Wistert was the ONLY pre-war player to make the Senior Semifinalist for 2009. He and Goldberg the only ones to make the semifinal list in 2008...It would seem Wistert WILL be the next pre-war guy down the road.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>It would seem Wistert WILL be the next pre-war guy down the road. >>
Doesn't hurt to start the campaign now... Al laughed when I told him I would be writing letters and posting on various sites on the Internet. It would be fantastic to see a deserving pre-war player inducted who would be able to attend the induction.
BTW, almost all of Al's career was post WWII (1943-1951).
Just a little about Al:
Wistert earned All-Pro honors in eight (five by consensus) from 1944-1951. As a two-way player, he played his entire nine-year career for the Philadelphia Eagles and is credited with introducing the stand-up blocking technique he perfected while an All-American at Michigan.
The National Football League had no All-Star (Pro Bowl) games between 1943 and 1950. Thus, although Wistert was a perennial All-Pro selection, it is difficult to compare him to more modern players who are often measured by Pro Bowl invitations. He was selected to the Pro Bowl for the 1950 season.
<< <i>
<< <i>It would seem Wistert WILL be the next pre-war guy down the road. >>
Doesn't hurt to start the campaign now... Al laughed when I told him I would be writing letters and posting on various sites on the Internet. It would be fantastic to see a deserving pre-war player inducted who would be able to attend the induction.
BTW, almost all of Al's career was post WWII (1943-1951).
Just a little about Al:
Wistert earned All-Pro honors in eight (five by consensus) from 1944-1951. As a two-way player, he played his entire nine-year career for the Philadelphia Eagles and is credited with introducing the stand-up blocking technique he perfected while an All-American at Michigan.
The National Football League had no All-Star (Pro Bowl) games between 1943 and 1950. Thus, although Wistert was a perennial All-Pro selection, it is difficult to compare him to more modern players who are often measured by Pro Bowl invitations. He was selected to the Pro Bowl for the 1950 season. >>
Scott agreed...Pro Football HOF actually considers pre-modern players ones who played before 1946. I just use the term pre-war because it's a popular baseball card term, but being "by the book" correct to the football HOF, it's pre-modern.
Also, I fully support your campaign for Wistert (you certainly aren't the first are only one pushing for him), but I don't know if posting here is going to help his case...Have you tried e-mailing the voting members of the senior committee? Honestly, if they don't select him as one of the 2 finalists, any of the campaigning you do will be moot. At least of few of them are voting for him, because he's made it from the initial list of senior nominees to the list of 15-17 semifinalist the last 2 years. Takes at least some votes from the 9 voting members of the committee to get him there.
Hey, shoot an e-mail a day to each of them for the next 8 months telling them you won't stop unless he is selected...lol. It worked for Art Monk!
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Have you tried e-mailing the voting members of the senior committee? Honestly, if they don't select him as one of the 2 finalists, any of the campaigning you do will be moot. At least of few of them are voting for him, because he's made it from the initial list of senior nominees to the list of 15-17 semifinalist the last 2 years. Takes at least some votes from the 9 voting members of the committee to get him there. >>
And these voting members would be? email addys? If you've got 'em, let me know and I'm on it!
I've posted elsewhere. Just fun to redundantly post it here.
<< <i>
<< <i>Have you tried e-mailing the voting members of the senior committee? Honestly, if they don't select him as one of the 2 finalists, any of the campaigning you do will be moot. At least of few of them are voting for him, because he's made it from the initial list of senior nominees to the list of 15-17 semifinalist the last 2 years. Takes at least some votes from the 9 voting members of the committee to get him there. >>
And these voting members would be? email addys? If you've got 'em, let me know and I'm on it!
I've posted elsewhere. Just fun to redundantly post it here.
Scott, I'll shoot you a PM tomorrow with e-mail addresses. Just don't tell them where you got it...Especially if you are going to campaign for someone and make them hate you..lol
I think you will find that the ones who reply to your e-mails (not all will) will likely point out that MOST of the Senior AND Modern candidates also have fans, former players, current players, owners and coaches all campaigning for them too!!! I've had a few debates will a couple of the voters through the years over one guy or another. My advice: Make sure you bring a point to the table that is something they don't already know! The insta-bio you posted earlier is common knowledge...If you know Al, see if you can get a story or some info that might make them pay attention and listen to your points...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Hopefully Wistert or Lavie Dilweg will be the next pre-war guy chosen >>
Does this Dilweg guy have a rookie card? I've never heard of him.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Doing a google search for him, I came across this forum. I haven't had time to look through it but it looks like it contains some good info...
Text
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>It doesnt look like he ever had a card produced.
Doing a google search for him, I came across this forum. I haven't had time to look through it but it looks like it contains some good info...
Text >>
Dave, no he doesn't have a valid rookie card. Much like about 20 or so other players from the era...
PFRA is a great resource. I should also direct your attention to some of their historical articles. A wealth of great information for anyone interested in the old timers.
PFRA- Coffin Corner
PFRA has been around a long time. I assumed all the serious HOF collector's already knew of it?
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>PFRA has been around a long time. I assumed all the serious HOF collector's already knew of it? >>
I had no idea.....Any other sites your holding back from us..??
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>PFRA has been around a long time. I assumed all the serious HOF collector's already knew of it? >>
I had no idea.....Any other sites your holding back from us..??
I just posted it above...
Coffin Corner...
Jaosn
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>It doesnt look like he ever had a card produced.
Doing a google search for him, I came across this forum. I haven't had time to look through it but it looks like it contains some good info...
Text >>
We could use his grandkid's card.
Anthony Dilweg played for the Packers too. He did not play much though.
Vote for the HOFers
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
85.0% Rod Woodson, CB/S - Steelers (1987-96), 49ers (1997), Ravens (1998-2001), Raiders (2002-03)
51.4% Cris Carter, WR - Eagles (1987-89), Vikings (1990-01), Dolphins (2002)
51.2% Dermontti Dawson, C - Steelers (1988-2000)
49.8% Bruce Smith, DE - Bills (1985-99), Redskins (2000-03)
42.5% Shannon Sharpe, TE - Broncos (1990-99, 2002-03), Ravens (2000-01)
33.8% Derrick Thomas, LB - Chiefs (1989-99)
29.9% Andre Reed, WR - Bills (1985-99), Redskins (2000)
25.8% John Randle, DT - Vikings (1990-2000), Seahawks (2001-03)
21.5% Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner - National Football League (1989-2006)
20.4% Richard Dent, DE - Bears (1983-93, 1995), 49ers (1994), Colts (1996), Eagles (1997)
18.1% Randall McDaniel, G - Vikings (1988-99), Buccaneers (2000-01)
17.1% Ralph Wilson, Team Founder/Owner - Bills (1960-Present)
13.6% Russ Grimm, G - Redskins (1981-91)
10.7% Bob Hayes, WR - Cowboys (1965-74), 49ers (1975)
10.7% Cortez Kennedy, DT - Seahawks (1990-2000)
7.1% Bob Kuechenberg, G - Dolphins (1970-84)
1.6% Claude Humphrey, DE - Falcons (1968-78), Eagles (1979-81)
Total Votes: 619
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Such is life...Hero one minute, forgotten the next...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Its unfortunate that he's been punished by the fact that Langer and Little are already in from that line..Its the same thing that has helped keep Jerry Kramer and LC Greenwood out of the Hall. I thinking either McDaniel gets in, or the HOF simply only electing 6 players instead of 7 this year.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Reminds me of me when I first started doing this set. CLUELESS >>
that's funny....I still feel clueless most of the time now....LOL..
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
When Cris Carter didn't make the Pro Football Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility last year, his colleagues on "Inside the NFL'' had a nice cry about it afterward.
Take it from a 15-year-member of the Board of Selectors, Cris Carter is a Hall of Famer. If he doesn't make it this year - and he probably will - he will make it next year or the year after. Anyone who makes it to the finals in his first year is about 99.9 percent sure of getting inducted. So are most of those who make it to the finals more than a handful of times.
The Hall of Fame finalists were made public this week. But don't ask this voter who will get in because he doesn't know. Nor does he know, except in a few cases, who he'll end up supporting. But he does want to explain the process.
So what follows is a primer that, hopefully, will clear up a few of the misunderstandings about why some people make it, why some don't. But start with this rule: Even we, the voters, are often unsure of what happens when final ballots are tallied. And even we, the voters, are often forced to vote against someone we think is worthy as the number of candidates is reduced from 17 to 10 to the seven on whom we will vote yes or no for induction that particular year.
Carter is a good example of how the real system works.
It's informal. It's one that's rarely articulated except, at times, in private conversations among voters outside "the room,'' the hotel parlor in the Super Bowl city where the debate is held each year. But it's a system that voters absorb as they go along, returning every winter to consider which four, five, six or seven of the 17 finalists to enshrine in Canton.
To start with, the 44 voters, a number that's increasing gradually, are divided into two categories - "at large,'' like this one, or voters representing a team, even those now defunct - who are responsible for "presenting'' players from their cities. It's an imperfect system, especially if the presenter either doesn't think his candidate is especially worthy. But right now it's the best one that exists.
In an informal way, the candidates can be broken down into categories.
1. "Slam dunk,'' a term stolen from another sport.
Darrell Green last year; Dan Marino, John Elway, Joe Montana, Emmitt Smith in recent years. Jerry Rice in upcoming years. Bruce Smith and perhaps Rod Woodson in this year's class. Very little debate.
When Walter Payton was up for selection, his presenter unrolled a long scroll of paper, perhaps 20 yards long, and said "these are his accomplishments. I could read them all but I don't think I have to.'' Then he tossed the paper on the floor.
No discussion. Election.
2. Sure to get in quickly, many of whom provoke a "Why didn't he make it?'' debate if they don't get in the first time they are up.
Carter is in this category. So were Thurman Thomas and Michael Irvin, who made it on their second and third times around. They sometimes are held back because priority might go to candidates left over from previous selection processes; seniority isn't discussed, but it's there. Carter most likely failed last year because voters decided that Art Monk, another wide receiver, had been kept waiting long enough. Carter and his advocates can argue that he was "better'' than Monk. He might have been. But seniority prevailed and Carter will get his due.
3. The debate provokers.
Many are players at positions without definable stats: offensive line and some defensive positions. But even stats can be deceptive.
Monk was the career receptions leader with 940 when he retired. His supporters portrayed him as the perfect possession receiver, a player would always get you 10 yards on third-and-9. His detractors suggested that opponents didn't fear him as much as some of his teammates. It also may have hurt him that he was naturally quiet and rarely talked to the media very much. This voter doesn't worry about those things. Others might. But the numbers eventually prevailed.
Another in this group was Harry Carson, the former Giants linebacker. He had a split career. In the first part, he was by far the best player on bad teams, a superstar playing on a loser. In the second part, he was a winner, the captain of a Super Bowl champion who played next to Lawrence Taylor. The anti-Carsons suggested he benefited from Taylor's presence. The pro-Carsons noted how good he was on a bad team and how much he helped even Taylor on a good one.
Again, it took a while, but he crept up the board and finally made it. Deservedly.
Are there guys like that on this year's ballot? Maybe Andre Reed, who as a receiver will have a difficult time in the future as Rice and Tim Brown and others move in. Perhaps Dermonnti Dawson and Randall McDaniel, two deserving offensive linemen.
4. Contributors.
Always a murky category, a group often put aside by those who believe players should take priority. There are two on the ballot this year: former commissioner Paul Tagliabue and Buffalo Bills owner Ralph Wilson.
Tagliabue is in a category all to himself. His supporters, and there are many in "the room,'' point simply to his accomplishments: labor peace, huge increases in television revenues, and the increasing popularity of the game. Detractors suggest that the potential problems in extending the current labor contract are part of his legacy, as are the lack of teams in Los Angeles and new stadiums in California.
Subtext? The fact that some voters didn't like him personally. Personal feelings shouldn't count, but people are voting, so they always do.
Of course, there always are exceptions to rules on seniority. Or on personality. Or on just about everything else.
Last year, for example, Fred Dean leapfrogged Derrick Thomas and made it. So did Andre Tippett, who spent most of his career on losing teams in New England and only came to the attention of voters midway through his period of eligibility.
Dean and Tippett had been eligible many years before they were even mentioned. But the arguments for them were good enough that they moved ahead of Thomas, who made it to the finals in his first year of eligibility. Thomas might have been hurt because, among other things, the Kansas City Chiefs may have pushed a little too hard supporting him. Voters are crusty and don't need glossy "highlight'' brochures - football is a team game, the Hall of Fame is an individual honor.
But Thomas, like Monk and Carson, seems to have reached a point where the feeling is "put him in.'' Expect it this year or next.
Then, finally, there is what is called "the Hal of Very Good,'' coined, I believe, by Peter King of Sports Illustrated, NBC and about 50 other media outlets.
Those are the players who often get considerable support from fans - outstanding players who might be just short of HOF worthiness, although many voters believe they deserve at least a debate. Try Roger Craig, Rickey Jackson, Carl Banks, Sam Mills, Leroy Butler and many others.
Another variable: A player's fate sometimes depends on the skill of his presenter - positive and negative. Some marginal players have made it because of a convincing presentation. Others have failed because theirs has been less than persuasive.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thanks for the nice read!!
jay
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
NEW YORK: Results of The Associated Press 2008 NFL All-Pro balloting selected by a national panel of media members:
OFFENSE
Quarterback
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis, 28; Drew Brees, New Orleans, 10; Philip Rivers, San Diego, 9; Chad Pennington, Miami, 2; Kurt Warner, Arizona, 1.
y-Running Backs
Adrian Peterson, Minnesota, 45; Michael Turner, Atlanta, 40; DeAngelo Williams, Carolina, 13; Clinton Portis, Washington, 1.
Fullback
Le'Ron McClain, Baltimore, 38; Madison Hedgerock, NY Giants, 5; Mike Sellers, Washington, 4; Tony Richardson, NY Jets, 2; Ovie Mughelli, Atlanta, 1.
Tight End
Tony Gonzalez, Kansas City, 33; Jason Witten, Dallas, 14; Dallas Clark, Indianapolis, 2; Antonio Gates, San Diego, 1.
Wide Receivers
Andre Johnson, Houston, 45; Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona, 21; Steve Smith, Carolina, 16; Wes Welker, New England, 6; Anquan Boldin, Arizona, 5; Roddy White, Atlanta, 4; Brandon Marshall, Denver, 1; Randy Moss, New England, 1; Calvin Johnson, Detroit, 1.
Tackles
Jordan Gross, Carolina, 34; Michael Roos, Tennessee, 32; Ryan Clady, Denver, 14; David Stewart, Tennessee, 3; Walter Jones, Seattle, 3; Jason Peters, Buffalo, 3; David Diehl, NY Giants, 3; Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 3; Chris Samuels, Washington, 2; Jon Runyan, Philadelphia, 1; Levi Brown, Arizona, 1; Ryan Harris, Denver, 1.
Guards
Steve Hutchinson, Minnesota, 40; Chris Snee, NY Giants, 32; Kris Dielman, San Diego, 10; Alan Faneca, NY Jets, 7; Logan Mankins, New England, 4; Leonard Davis, Dallas, 2; Travelle Wharton, Carolina, 2; Harvey Dahl, Atlanta, 1; Ben Grubbs, Baltimore, 1; Justin Smiley, Miami, 1.
Center
Kevin Mawae, Tennessee, 25; Shaun O'Hara, NY Giants, 18; Nick Mangold, NY Jets, 3; Jeff Saturday, Indianapolis, 2; Casey Wiegmann, Denver, 1; Todd McClure, Atlanta, 1.
Placekicker
Stephen Gostkowski, New England, 28; John Carney, NY Giants, 13; Rob Bironas, Tennessee, 3; Jason Hanson, Detroit, 3; Phil Dawson, Cleveland, 2; Jason Elam, Atlanta, 1.
Kick Returner
Leon Washington, NY Jets, 19; Clifton Smith, Tampa Bay, 16; Leodis McKelvin, Buffalo, 4; Josh Cribbs, Cleveland, 4; Darren Sproles, San Diego, 2 1/2; Johnnie Lee Higgins, Oakland, 1 1/2; Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo, 1; Justin Miller, Oakland, 1; Reggie Bush, New Orleans, 1.
___
DEFENSE
Ends
Justin Tuck, NY Giants, 26; Jared Allen, Minnesota, 21; Julius Peppers, Carolina, 20; John Abraham, Atlanta, 17; Mario Williams, Houston, 8; Dwight Freeney, Indianapolis, 4; Aaron Smith, Pittsburgh, 2; DeMarcus Ware, Dallas, 1; Trent Cole, Philadelphia, 1.
Tackles
Albert Haynesworth, Tennessee, 49; Kevin Williams, Minnesota, 25; Kris Jenkins, NY Jets, 11; Haloti Ngata, Baltimore, 6; Jay Ratliff, Dallas, 3; Casey Hampton, Pittsburgh, 2; Shaun Rogers, Cleveland, 2; Pat Williams, Minnesota, 1; Fred Robbins, NY Giants, 1.
Outside Linebackers
DaMarcus Ware, Dallas, 45; James Harrison, Pittsburgh, 38; Joey Porter, Miami, 13; Terrell Suggs, Baltimore, 2; LaMarr Woodley, Pittsburgh 1; Derrick Brooks, Tampa Bay, 1.
y-Inside Linebacker
Ray Lewis, Baltimore, 39; Jon Beason, Carolina, 18; Patrick Willis, San Francisco, 17; James Farrior, Pittsburgh, 12; London Fletcher, Washington, 8; Barrett Ruud, Tampa Bay, 1; James Harrison, Pittsburgh, 1; Stewart Bradley, Philadelphia, 1; Bart Scott, Baltimore, 1; Jerod Mayo, New England, 1.
Cornerbacks
Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland, 32; Cortland Finnegan, Tennessee, 31; Charles Woodson, Green Bay, 17; Antoine Winfield, Minnesota, 10; Asante Samuel, New England, 3; Darrelle Revis, NY Jets, 2; Champ Bailey, Denver, 1; Ronde Barber, Tampa Bay, 1; Corey Webster, NY Giants 1; Will Allen, Miami, 1; Terence Newman, Dallas, 1.
Safeties
Ed Reed, Baltimore, 50; Troy Polamalu, Pittsburgh, 46; Adrian Wilson, Arizona, 2; Quintin Mikell, Philadelphia, 1; Nick Collins, Green Bay, 1.
Punter
Shane Lechler, Oakland, 25; Donnie Jones, Miami, 10; Jeff Feagles, NY Giants, 6; Sam Koch, Baltimore, 5; Mike Scifres, San Diego, 3; Brad Maynard, Chicago, 1.
___
x-one voter selected only one running back.
y-one voter selected only one inside linebacker.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Bruce Smith
Rod Woodson
Cris Carter
Derrick Thomas
Randall McDaniel
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
QB- Peyton Manning
RB- Adrian Peterson
RB- Michael Turner
FB- LeRon McClain
TE- Tony Gonzalez
WR- Andre Johnson
WR- Larry Fitzgerald
OT- Jordan Gross
OT-Michael Roos
OG- Steve Hutchinson
OG- Chris Snee
C- Kevin Mawae
DE- Justin Tuck
DE- Jared Allen
DT- Albert Haynesworth
DT- Kevin Williams
OLB- DeMarcus Ware
OLB- James Harrison
MLB- Ray Lewis
MLB- Jon Beason
CB- Nnamdi Asomugha
CB- Cortland Finnegan
S- Ed Reed
S- Troy Polamalu
K- Stephen Gostkowski
P- Shane Lechler
KR- Leon Washington
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Thanks for the read Jason, nice to hear DT is in the higher end of the group. With that, I would make my HOF prediction.
Bruce Smith
Rod Woodson
Cris Carter
Derrick Thomas
Randall McDaniel >>
Solid choices..I had DT in my predictions until Claude Humphrey was picked as a Senior. I just don't see them voting in THREE pass rushers in one year...DT and Cris Carter are the best choices of any of the players who have missed being inducted in the past IMO..
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>It would be helpful to know how many times each of the first teamers have been selected. >>
Dave, I will post all that when I start the voting thread for this years Future HOF Modern additions...Here's who will be on my initial ballot:
Any active players with 6 or more Pro Bowls
Any active players with 4 or more 1st Team All-Pros
Any retired players who have been a HOF Finalist the last 5 years
Any retired player who have been a HOF semi-finalist more than once in the last 5 years
Lastly, any active player not meeting the above that has reached a significant statistical milestone this season
I would post it now, but I don't have my stick drive with me with the necessary information. Give me about 4 hours and I will start the thread.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Doc
<< <i>Hey Jason, I loved the story about Walter Payton's presenter, that was terrific.
Doc >>
I agree and had never heard the Payton story....I had heard of similar things, one being John Elway where the presentor simply stood up and said "John Elway" and sat back down..lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thanks,
Doc
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Jason, could you give us an answer on what you think would be James Harrison's potential registry card in the future? >>
I really have no idea..I don't know anything at all about rookies newer than 2004. Harrison won't be on my radar for 3-4 more years as far as HOF consideration goes.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Hey Guys, which Cortez Kennedy rookie card would be in the HOF set?
Thanks,
Doc >>
Doc, check out the 1990's NFL Team of the Decade set on the Football Key Card Registry. Kennedy's top rookie is already part of that set.
He will be on our ballot for addition to the Future Modern set later today. Not sure if I will vote for him yet or not. Wasn't but a couple of years ago Kennedy was left off the NOMINEE list..Yes, the list of 100+!!! But making the semifinals last year and now moving up to the finals, his push seems to be building, so maybe we should add him???
I'm headed home now, should have the thread posted shortly...This being the 3rd time we will have done a vote for adding players to the Modern set, it almost feels like our very own HOF voting...lol..Only its all unoffical...PSA will still send out the official poll, but so far every player who got the majority vore here on the message board also got the votes to officially be added to the set.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!