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Official NFL HOF autograph set thread???

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    I've got quite a few items in the upcoming BST auction - anyone who can help spread the word would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

    http://www.bst-auctions.com/catalog.aspx
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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    Hi Rev! Which lots are yours?
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    << <i>Hi Rev! Which lots are yours? >>



    I trust there is nothing unethical about me posting this - if I'm off base please let me know

    Lot #4: 1932 NFL Championship Program Chicago Bears vs. Portsmouth Spartans
    Lot #31:1891 William "Pudge" Heffelfinger and Lee McClung, first generation
    Lot #61:1890 Amos Alonzo Stagg Yale first generation albumen photograph Yale
    Lot #482:1876 Harper's Weekly "Foot-Ball at the Wall" 22" x 15" print
    Lot #483:1880's to 1910's football articles collection with great content/illustrations
    Lot #484:1881 Harper's Weekly "A Game of Foot-Ball - a Scrummage at the Close
    Lot #485:1886 Yale Football cabinet with Amos Alonzo Stagg, Harry Beecher, W. H.
    Lot #486:1887 Harper's Weekly Yale football team (Harry Beecher captain) 22" x 15" print
    Lot #487:1889 Frank Leslie's Illustrated Newspaper "Thanksgiving Day
    Lot #488:1890 Carlisle "The Indian Helper" publication and 1895 Harper's Roundtable Carlisle football article
    Lot #489:1890 first generation albumen photographs of football game action, lot of
    Lot #490:1890 first generation albumen photographs of football game action, lot of
    Lot #491:1890 Yale Varsity football team first generation albumen photograph with Heffelfinger and McClung
    Lot #492:1890's football ephemera and ticket lot
    Lot #493:1890's football newspaper lot with Carlisle Indians, Yale, Harvard
    Lot #494:1890's St. John's football oversized cabinet photo plus unidentified football
    Lot #495:1890's to 1920's Periodical football article collection with many prints and
    Lot #496:1891 William "Pudge" Heffelfinger first generation albumen
    Lot #497:1891 Yale football (Lee McClung) related first generation albumen
    Lot #498:1891 Yale Football William Pudge Heffelfinger autograph (circa 1932)
    Lot #499:1891 Yale Varsity football team first generation albumen photograph with Heffelfinger, Hinkey, and
    Lot #500:1892 Pach Brothers football cabinet Yale National Champions with Hinkey, McCormick
    Lot #501:1893 Yale football yearbook pages with team photos, Yale football history
    Lot #502:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Acton Harvard SGC 20
    Lot #503:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Adee Yale SGC 40
    Lot #504:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Armstrong Yale PSA 3
    Lot #505:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Armstrong Yale SGC 50
    Lot #506:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Barnett Princeton SGC 40
    Lot #507:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Beale Harvard PSA 4
    Lot #508:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Beard Yale SGC 40
    Lot #509:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Brown Princeton Yale PSA 2.5
    Lot #510:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Burt Princeton SGC 30
    Lot #512:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Crowdis Princeton SGC Auth
    Lot #513:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Emmons Harvard PSA 4
    Lot #514:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Gouterman Harvard PSA Auth
    Lot #515:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Greenway Yale PSA 1
    Lot #516:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Grey Harvard SGC 50
    Lot #517:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Hickok Yale College HOF SGC Auth
    Lot #518:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Hinkey Yale College HOF PSA 2
    Lot #519:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Mackie Harvard SGC 10
    Lot #520:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Manahan Harvard PSA 1
    Lot #521:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Murphy Yale SGC 10
    Lot #522:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Riggs Princeton SGC 40
    Lot #523:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Stillamn Yale PSA 2
    Lot #524:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Taylor Princeton SGC 20
    Lot #525:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Thorne Yale College Football HOF PSA 2
    Lot #526:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Trenchard Princeton SGC 35
    Lot #527:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Ward Princeton SGC 30
    Lot #528:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Waters Yale PSA Auth
    Lot #529:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug Wrightington Yale PSA 1.5
    Lot #530:1894 N302 Mayo's Cut Plug lot of 3 Brewer (SGC A), Holly (SGC A), Wheeler (SGC 10)
    Lot #531:1899 Princeton Football cabinet with Poe, Hillebrand, Palmer and
    Lot #533:1915 Wiley & Son Stock Certificate signed by W. H. Corbin of Yale member
    Lot #534:1923 Notre Dame football oversized cabinet featuring Knute Rockne and the Four
    Lot #624:1880 vintage football engraving of game action between Yale and
    Lot #631:1873 Yale vs. Columbia football program (third earliest known program)
    Lot #632:1881 Yale vs. Princeton football championship program
    Lot #633:1893 Yale vs. Harvard football program November 25th
    Lot #634:1893 Yale vs. Princeton football ticket stub plus related ephemera
    Lot #635:1894 Yale vs. Princeton football program Dec 1st
    Lot #636:1895 Yale vs. Princeton football program November 23
    Lot #637:1895 Yale vs. Princeton ticket and stub
    Lot #638:1898 Yale vs. Princeton football program November 12th
    Lot #639:1900 Harvard vs. Penn football program November 3rd
    Lot #641:1925 Red Grange & Chicago Bears vs. Coral Gables Collegiate Stars (Pottsville
    Lot #642:1925 Red Grange & Chicago Bears vs. Coral Gables Collegiate Stars football ticket stub PSA
    Lot #643:1930 New York Giants vs. Notre Dame football benefit game program & ticket stub
    Lot #644:1930 Notre Dame vs. Navy ticket stub dedication of Notre Dame Stadium PSA
    Lot #645:1941 New York Giants vs. Brooklyn Dodgers Pearl Harbor Day football program and ticket
    Lot #659:1967 Super Bowl I program Green Bay Packers vs. Kansas City Chiefs
    Lot #663:1976 New York Giants vs. Dallas Cowboys first game at Giants Stadium full

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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    Not at all. I guess it would have been easier to list what wasn't yours!
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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    Not at all. I guess I should have asked you to post what wasn't yours, would have saved you time.
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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    Bump so we don't fall off the page.
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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    The Sid Luckman GLA card sold as a Best Offer.
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    CatmanCatman Posts: 267 ✭✭
    Hey Joe.....I'm the one who snatched up the Luckman. I'm still missing Davis, Fortmann, and Wojo.
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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Hey Joe.....I'm the one who snatched up the Luckman. I'm still missing Davis, Fortmann, and Wojo. >>



    Do you want to buy Rocke's set? That loud thud you heard was Rocke hitting the floor!
    In the meantime check out this link http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-York-Giants-Signed-Picture-/141602798049?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f82f39e1
    A Jessie Armstead 8 x 10 for $10K! If I get outbid, I hope I can get a second chance offer!
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    GRGR Posts: 550 ✭✭
    You can't get outbid on a buy it now, you have to pull the trigger Joe you can't make the same mistake you made on the Pollard
    Nathan Wagner
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    Hello Everyone,

    I have been contacted by someone that needs help. Does anyone here have an example ( or multiple examples ) of Jack Banta. He played in 1941 for the Washington Redskins, 1941 for the Phil. Eagles, 1944 - 45 for the Eagles, and 1946 - 48 for the LA Rams. Someone that has some multi signed team sheets, or game programs from that era may have one. If someone has an example, could you PLEASE text a couple of good pictures to me. If you have one, and need my cell #, Please PM me, and I will PM you my #. Thank You VERY much.

    Rocke
    WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
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    Tried to post a little bit ago, and I guess it got Lost in CyberSpace !!!! LOL

    So....Let's try this again.
    I have been contacted by someone, who needs to see some examples of a Jack Banta signature looks like. Jack played part of 1941 for the Washington Redskins, part of 1941 for the Philadelphia Eagles, 1944 - 45 for the Eagles, and 1946 - 48 for the L.A. Rams. If anyone has multi signed team sheets, or multi signed game programs, Jack may be on your item. I would be VERY appreciative if you could text me some pictures of Jack's signature. If you have one, and do NOT have my cell #, PLEASE PM me, and I will PM you my cell #.

    Thank You VERY much.

    Rocke
    WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
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    revmoranrevmoran Posts: 398 ✭✭
    I don't have Jack Banta the football player - not to be confused with this autograph of Jack Banta the baseball player

    image

    image
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    I thought for sure I had Jack Banta on a multi signed Cleveland Rams program . I was mistaken. Disappointing image
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    cfhofercfhofer Posts: 258 ✭✭
    Mike,

    Since almost 1/2 the BST football auction listings were yours, how do you think the auction went? I was actually pretty surprised to see how much the 1886 football photo sold for. Congrats!

    I picked up a few pieces of yours. Not too many since I'm not collecting anymore :-)

    Mark
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    revmoranrevmoran Posts: 398 ✭✭
    The 1886 Yale photo was a good sale, as was the 1932 Bears Spartans Championship program. All those Yale photos were gravy since I had already sold the other photos in that album for more than my cost. The 1873 Yale Columbia program sold for less than I paid, but only by 25%. Returns on the Mayo cards was mixed. Overall I'm very happy - I completely trust the guys who run the auction and they did a great job for me. It's amazing to me that I sold all those items and it seems I still have as much as when I started.
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    Congrats Rev - I'm glad to see the success of your lots. It was a mighty impressive collection in itself! That early collegiate area is beyond my area of knowledge - just fascinating.
    I garnered a little education perusing your items...and was outbid early and often on the Bears/Spartans program. Next time !
    Who put those OneOf A Kind cards on ebay ( Chamberlin, Marshall, Ford, etc. ) ? Stupid ebay took too long to load my final bids image
    Someone got some nce items over the weekend for sure !
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    wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭


    << <i>Congrats Rev - I'm glad to see the success of your lots. It was a mighty impressive collection in itself! That early collegiate area is beyond my area of knowledge - just fascinating.
    I garnered a little education perusing your items...and was outbid early and often on the Bears/Spartans program. Next time !
    Who put those OneOf A Kind cards on ebay ( Chamberlin, Marshall, Ford, etc. ) ? Stupid ebay took too long to load my final bids image
    Someone got some nce items over the weekend for sure ! >>



    Yeah, I was watching those too. Thankfully I had all those guys already. Surprised by how much the Guy went for considering what I paid for my index card.

    Thought the Marshall went a bit on the cheaper side, but definitely did not need anything of him.
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    Actually Marshall was the one guy I was specifically after. I'm confident I would have won, but just watched my bid try to load.
    And I was a little surprised at Chamberlin as well. a little.
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    cfhofercfhofer Posts: 258 ✭✭
    Hey Guys,

    I recently picked up a couple nice stock certificates signed by Knowlton "Snake" Ames, All-American fullback for Princeton from 1886-89 and member of the College Football Hall of Fame. Ames scored 730 points for the Tigers including 62 touchdowns, which is an unofficial college football career record. Snake and Heffelfinger were unofficially the first professional football players while playing for the Chicago Athletic Association in 1892. Ames life ended tragically in 1931 when he shot himself in the backseat of his limo. He was financially ruined from the stock market crash of 1929. These stock certificates personally belonged to Snake Ames and contain the only known full signature examples in the hobby. I actually have a couple of these and would be willing to sell one to anyone interested. Just email me at vintageuofm@yahoo.com. Here is a sample.

    image

    Cheers

    Mark
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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Congrats Rev - I'm glad to see the success of your lots. It was a mighty impressive collection in itself! That early collegiate area is beyond my area of knowledge - just fascinating.
    I garnered a little education perusing your items...and was outbid early and often on the Bears/Spartans program. Next time !
    Who put those OneOf A Kind cards on ebay ( Chamberlin, Marshall, Ford, etc. ) ? Stupid ebay took too long to load my final bids image
    Someone got some nce items over the weekend for sure ! >>



    Was that Len Ford? I never even got a "follow this search" email.
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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    And the winner of the Fritz Pollard photo was------BLOOD BANK BILL! He called me tonight, said with the buyers fee he paid about $7500. Then someone offered him $15K which he turned down. He was stunned when I told him he could have BIN'ed it for $2500....Glad to see it stayed in the family.
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    mschwademschwade Posts: 66 ✭✭
    Nice pickup Mark!! Beautiful signature.
    Ohio State football coaches and All-Americans collector.
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    << <i>

    << <i>Congrats Rev - I'm glad to see the success of your lots. It was a mighty impressive collection in itself! That early collegiate area is beyond my area of knowledge - just fascinating.
    I garnered a little education perusing your items...and was outbid early and often on the Bears/Spartans program. Next time !
    Who put those OneOf A Kind cards on ebay ( Chamberlin, Marshall, Ford, etc. ) ? Stupid ebay took too long to load my final bids image
    Someone got some nce items over the weekend for sure ! >>





    << <i>Was that Len Ford? I never even got a "follow this search" email. >>



    Yes, Len Ford.
    Funny thing - it showed up on my saved searches.I seem to remember these custom cards being done by someone here ...at least somebody had them commissioned. It was the third Ford in as many months, too. Better check your settings...
    Ps - I did pick up one of those .
    Mark- Another great find.I like how people knew how to sign their name once upon a time.....image
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    wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭
    Looks like we lost another legend today.

    RIP Chuck Bednarik

    On a side note, I did finally sit down and update my website. (Been since at least the National last year that it'd been updated.) Sadly, been pretty stale for me lately other than an upgrade and getting a Tingelhoff & Haley.
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    CatmanCatman Posts: 267 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Congrats Rev - I'm glad to see the success of your lots. It was a mighty impressive collection in itself! That early collegiate area is beyond my area of knowledge - just fascinating.
    I garnered a little education perusing your items...and was outbid early and often on the Bears/Spartans program. Next time !
    Who put those OneOf A Kind cards on ebay ( Chamberlin, Marshall, Ford, etc. ) ? Stupid ebay took too long to load my final bids image
    Someone got some nce items over the weekend for sure ! >>





    << <i>Was that Len Ford? I never even got a "follow this search" email. >>



    Yes, Len Ford.
    Funny thing - it showed up on my saved searches.I seem to remember these custom cards being done by someone here ...at least somebody had them commissioned. It was the third Ford in as many months, too. Better check your settings...
    Ps - I did pick up one of those .
    Mark- Another great find.I like how people knew how to sign their name once upon a time.....image >>



    These cards belonged to Raiderguy10 (Derrick) and were custom made by Alifax2 (Jeffrey) he does exceptional work at a great price.
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    raiderguy10raiderguy10 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    Close but no, I think they were reeces at one time. These were done by knuckles. But yes, Jeffrey does do great work, but those aren't mine
    Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.

    "In Al We Trust!"

    Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
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    CatmanCatman Posts: 267 ✭✭


    << <i>Close but no, I think they were reeces at one time. These were done by knuckles. But yes, Jeffrey does do great work, but those aren't mine >>



    My bad, I thought they were.
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    raiderguy10raiderguy10 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭
    Sorry for the spam, but I've got a duplicate Walt Kiesling if anyone is looking to add him to their collection. If interested feel free to PM me or email raiderguy10@gmail.com

    Kiesling PSA/DNA Auto
    Collect HOF Autos and Anything Raiders.

    "In Al We Trust!"

    Looking for Autos of HOFers Charles Bidwill, Tim Mara, Joe Carr, Fritz Pollard, Guy Chamberlin & Bill Hewitt
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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    Good to see Nate and Dave at CSA. No Rocke. Who's going to Canton?
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    Another great is go en RIP Bob St. Clair!!!!
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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Another great is go en RIP Bob St. Clair!!!! >>



    Wow! Hadn't heard the news. Sad
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    << <i>Good to see Nate and Dave at CSA. No Rocke. Who's going to Canton? >>



    As with every year, Saturday night, and Sunday night, during the Enshrinement and Game, it's Pizza, pop, and Beer at my house. You are all invited to hang with Joe, Rod, Chris and his wife Lisa from North Carolina, Pete from Atlanta, Bloodbank Bill from Wisconsin, and whoever else shows up. If you post on this thread, you are invited.

    Rocke
    WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
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    wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭
    Hey guys! I haven't posted in a while, sadly. Really haven't been picking up anything too crazy, at least until as of late. I might have to swing up during enshrinement weekend. I was planning on trying to get tickets the the enshrinement since Bettis made it, but an opportunity presented itself to make my first trip to Hawaii so my extra money is going towards that trip.

    Anyhow...I did pick up a few upgrades for my collection. Again, I know you guys don't do much pack pulled stuff, but I still like it if I can. (If for no other reason than easy storage.)

    This one is getting sent to Leaf to be reslabbed. (Only going to cost me $5 plus shipping.)

    image

    Then just got this one in today. It's a much cleaner cut than what I had before.

    image

    I do have a little project that will likely go into motion next week once I have the item. A certain person already knows what it is and what my plans are for it, but once I have it back from where it's going, I will be sure to post it up on here for you guys to see as well.
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    wju- I love the cut signatures (like your Jim Finks) when they are done neatly and properly. Congrats and LMk if you find another for me lol
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    No postings for 2 weeks. We need a bump! Who is going to Canton?
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    << <i>No postings for 2 weeks. We need a bump! Who is going to Canton? >>



    I Will be in Canton for HOF weekend.

    I will also be in Pittsburgh on Sunday ( tomorrow ) for the annual Mainline ( formerly J.Paul ) show at Robert Morris University.

    Rocke
    WANTED:Football Hall of Fame Autograph's;Hugh Ray,Tim Mara,Charles Bidwell,Walt Kiesling,Bill Hewitt,Len Ford,Fritz Pollard,Curly Lambeau,Steve Owen & Joe Carr. FOR SALE : 100's of auto'd HoF 8x10's & dozen's of auto'd HoF cards.
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    wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭
    Hey fellas, hope all is well...so let's see.

    Canton...was thinking of just coming up to Rocke's that weekend, but guess a few friends are getting tickets for the induction, so looks like I will be there. Glad I'll get to see Jerome get inducted.

    Won't be making it to the RMU show this year, Rocke. I was going to go today, but my lodge is having their golf scramble today, so no go for me. (Work tomorrow.)

    Also, sad I ended up having to bow out on the Lambeau/Kiesling piece last night. Would have gotten me down to 9, but it finally hit a point where if I kept buying it...there would have been no money left for me to go to Hawaii..oh well.

    Now...for a few new additions to the collection.

    image

    image

    image

    image

    Thanks to Derrick for hooking me up with the Polian...and I'd been looking forever for one of those Williams (that the person wasn't wanting $75 for it.) I'm officially down to 11 with the Williams and Polian. (Still need Humphrey, Wolf & Shields for the easy ones.)

    Also, my little project is officially at Leaf (as in the Finks getting fixed.) Once I have it back in hand, you guys will be the first to know!
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    wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭
    Wow it's been dead around here lately. Did I kill it or something?

    Anyhow, here is that little piece I mentioned in the previous post. It just arrived last week while I was out of town. Definitely well worth the wait...and a very beautiful autograph of his to say the least.

    image
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    wju2004wju2004 Posts: 127 ✭✭
    Sorry for the double post. The forum had a hiccup when I tried to post the first time and it didn't show up initially.
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    cfhofercfhofer Posts: 258 ✭✭
    Hey guys,

    It has been quiet on this message board for awhile, so you may enjoy this. I bought this thinking it was an original 14" x 11" photograph of the 1892 Harvard freshman football team with original signatures of each player below. However, Charles Brewer (3x All-American and member of the CFHOF) was on the Varsity in 1892 (yet is pictured here). In addition, the ball has "'91" written on it and there is a trophy saying "Football Challenge 1888".

    Turns out this isn't even Harvard. This is actually the 1891 Hopkinson's HS Football team, which won the Interscholastic Boston School Football Challenge that year. The challenge was created as a football recruitment tool for Harvard. Not surprisingly, all of these guys eventually went to Harvard.

    (Sorry for the blurry pic, had to use my Ipad camera)



    image
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    cfhofercfhofer Posts: 258 ✭✭
    Just picked up this 1922 signed copy of "Principles of Football" by John Heisman. Another collector responded to one of my posts on this forum from 7 years ago. Good things definitely come to those who wait.

    Cheers!

    image
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    mschwademschwade Posts: 66 ✭✭
    What a freaking BEAUTY! Congrats Mark!!
    Ohio State football coaches and All-Americans collector.
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    revmoranrevmoran Posts: 398 ✭✭
    Mark, a fine, superfine, example - congratulations!
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    cfhofercfhofer Posts: 258 ✭✭
    Thanks guys. I find signed books usually contain the sharpest autographs. Unfortunately they are impossible to display. So you guys are stuck with me constantly posting scans online.
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    revmoranrevmoran Posts: 398 ✭✭
    I know some people will cut the autographs from the book but I haven't been able to bring myself to do that - this Camp autograph is in his book Handbook on Health - I don't think the book has much value (unlike the Heisman book) but I'm loathe to remove it.

    image
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    cfhofercfhofer Posts: 258 ✭✭
    Mike - That is a fantastic Walter Camp signed note. It would be difficult for me to remove that autograph too. The #1 book on my wantlist is a SIGNED first edition copy of 'American Football' by Walter Camp.
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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    Wow, some nice postings . The thread disappeared for a while due to no recent postings and I had no clue how to bring it up for a "bump". Anyway, I moved from MD yo AZ, arrived June 27. As I unpack my "archives", those I've checked made the trip intact, including both GLA Gold sets. So Rocke, you can rest easy that "your set" is safe and sound. LMK when you "take out" your mother-in-law so I can sell it back to you.....
    Who's going to Canton 2015?
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    JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    Bump!
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    cfhofercfhofer Posts: 258 ✭✭
    Anyone going to the National? I haven't gone since 2006 in LA. Curious if others feel it is worth the cost.
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