<< <i>is this nonsense? -- pay close attention to paragraph 3 of section I; >>
Not nonsense at all. This has been in the works by the current Congress the last few months and it all depended on if their guy won.
Well, he did.
Worse, when a person dies they will no longer be able to bequeth their assets to their children and such. The Government takes it all.
Little did people know that their IRAs that they worked for all their lifetimes are now going to be stolen from them.
It's called spreading the wealth, don't you know?
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>what kind of proof do I need to send people to college? isn't that one of the way's out of an IRA? >>
Not up on the rules there as I've never had an IRA for many reasons, mostly personal decision.
However, if you don't do something fast, you won't be needing to worry about any way out.
You won't have your IRA anymore, it will be taken by Social Security and there's not a thing you can do about it.
It won't be your money anymore, it will be "shared" as it is wealth. It will be your patriotic duty to smile and accept the theft of your assets.
Saul Alinsky is partying in his grave. After all, you will be lending a helping hand to those who are generational welfare addicts and those who have never saved a dime in their life. It's easy to get votes when you buy them with other people's money.
You must be one of those evil rich people, shame on you! Now they are going to make you pay for that crime.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Anyone who has a 401K or IRA is by definition "rich" and able to support. As I've said before, I stopped contributing to my 401K. My company can use the matching funds they would have paid out in their best interest.
Other loopholes still exist to transfer one's wealth away. One of those include gifting up to $10,000/yr (or whatever the current number is) to "family" members. But it's not out of the realm of possibility that this could be removed as well.
Times have changed right before our eyes. Yes we knew we were headed for a socialist society but the waves of change are happening very fast now, and wealth protection is of the utmost importance. Many State and local governments are already socialist, and now the entire Federal Government is socialist.
This new administration was the most unlikely group to ever be elected into office, and this is an important signal as to how things will be in the future.
There are now so many people dependant of government for their jobs, and their checks in the mail, that in my opinion we will not see a change in this socialist style of government in our lifetimes.
Don’t waste any time listening to the Rush Limbaugh’s, Glenn Beck’s of the world telling you how we can once again be that America of yesterday! That day is gone! No longer can the mob be out voted.
Those of us that lived much of the last 50 years have lived in the most prosperous county with the most freedom ever enjoyed by any human beings inhabiting this planet. However all things have a beginning and end, and the peak of our society has now been reached.
Desperation will now be the call of the day as Americans join the ranks of other peoples around the world in a much less affluent day-to-day survival.
We cannot be far off now from a time when government’s choices to support its socialist society must either be to just print money, or confiscate it, and redistribute.
The upper middle class upward must now learn to do what successful people in other parts of the world have had to do for decades, HIDE.
Hide your wealth, get off of the grid, pay off your debt, and your mortgage if you can. Keep some cash hidden away from government eyes; C.D.’S and bonds won’t pay anything now anyway.
Hide your gold and silver; buy some slabbed coins where there is no question that they are numismatic.
Get small in the eyes of the public and stay that way.
Forget about the stock market regaining its highs of 2007, this is just not going to happen. The big players have left or are busted. The baby boomers are looking for the exits.
We can look forward to many many large businesses being nationalized the next few years. The car companies are toast, the airlines will fall before long, and the nations banks are in the process. All shareholders and debt holders in these industries have already lost their money; they just don’t know it yet.
Don’t buy debt in the form of bonds, notes, etc. in large corporations or government entities.
Basically stay out of paper assets as much as possible, if one must have money in the stock market buy companies that pay dividends in industries that have hard assets i.e. Steel, copper, nickel, gold, silver, cement, etc. Only buy these on the big dip periods, which will be numerous the next several months.
For small investments keep all your metal change, nickels and up.
Keep two months of food in the house at all times.
Buy a firearm and some ammo, if you don’t have one, before you can’t!
"Get small in the eyes of the public and stay that way."
If you're reading this thread you better not just read for amusement, reality is comin' at you. Get your money, get your guns and ammo and carry permit , get your metal, GET OUT OF DEBT RIGHT NOW! Don't be snoozin' or you'll be losin'. Don't say no one told you. If you think your benevolent uncle is going to treat you right and take care of you, well, good luck with that. For the rest of you, get small, really small.
Goldsaint, I agree with you 99.8%. One point that I feel slightly different about is whether or not to pay off a mortgage. In my opinion, having no mortgage might be cause to single you out as someone who is still liquid. In addition, I wouldn't quite pay off a mortgage until the dollars that I'm using are quite devalued, i.e., I thnk that it's a bit early to do that. jmo.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
"In my opinion, having no mortgage might be cause to single you out as someone who is still liquid."
Agreed, even probably good to keep a small stock account to play with but mostly as bait for profile checkers. A little mortgage, a little stock account. Little...little.
Edited to reiterate Dr. Hunter S. Thompson..."When the goin' gets weird, the weird turn pro."
<< <i>What the gold-bug article author fails to understand is that the gold price volatility is quite normal, just as the Dow and S&P is these days. These are volatile times. Learn to live with it because massive injections of money along with massive disappearances of assets will continue. The value of the dollar has been volatile both up and down in the past year, only getting worse. The author also totally misses the point that gold is up 3X since 2001 while stocks are down 40%. If you toss in the inflation factor, stocks are down much more than 40%. Priced in gold, the stock market is down 75% since 2001, not a particularly great place to "preserve" one's wealth.
Financial analyst Reggie Middleton who has been expertly dissecting the balance sheets of the major banks for the past 18 months (and none of it was good) says that besides the 117 banks on the FDIC's "short" list of potential failures, there are nearly another 1500 smaller banks on the "possible to probable" failure list.
Interesting to see gold and silver both follow the typical PPT 10 am "fishing line" takedown rule today as has been the norm for days/weeks now. I suspect that another day of DOW caving and gold rising simply could not be tolerated so soon following the election results. So they took down gold early and pumped the dollar. The PPT was not going to stand for having the potential to lock in the worst 3 days of stock results following an election in 100 years. And then the insult of having gold strengthen at the same time....no way! The PPT has Friday left to bail themselves out. I think they will succeed this time.
roadrunner >>
Yep, just like clockwork. I watched that 10AM takedown today minute by minute.
Funny how that seems happen with such regularity, it defies any normal scenarios in a free market. >>
The more plausible reason for the 10AM movement is most likely due to the release of economic data at that time. Such information released at 10am includes the following....
1. Construction spending. 2. ISM index. 3. Factory orders. 4. ISM services index. 5. Wholesale inventories. 6. Business inventories. 7. Michigan sentiment. 8. Leading indicators. 9. Philly Fed. 10. Consumer confidence. 11. New home sale. 12. Pending home sales.
Since all reports point to a recession it is no doubt that gold would fall on this information.
What the gold-bug article author fails to understand is that the gold price volatility is quite normal, just as the Dow and S&P is these days. These are volatile times. Learn to live with it because massive injections of money along with massive disappearances of assets will continue. The value of the dollar has been volatile both up and down in the past year, only getting worse. The author also totally misses the point that gold is up 3X since 2001 while stocks are down 40%. If you toss in the inflation factor, stocks are down much more than 40%. Priced in gold, the stock market is down 75% since 2001, not a particularly great place to "preserve" one's wealth.
The author is doing what some here do - choosing a time frame that supports his position. That's why it's necessary to look back further than 7 years to evaluate an investment's long term prospects. Also, since 2001 the S&P is down from around 1140 to 920, so that's 20%, not 40%.
My only debt is my mortgage, however it's only around 30% of the value of my home.
I intentionally set it up to be rather low and manageable in the case of many unfortunate personal possibilities.
This, however, was never in my thought process several years ago.
I never believed we would ever be this "unfortunate" as an entire nation.
RR, the gifting clause is now up to 12K, but we all know that laws can be changed retroactively.
Still, that does't apply to getting out of your IRA before it is nationalized/confiscated.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>What the gold-bug article author fails to understand is that the gold price volatility is quite normal, just as the Dow and S&P is these days. These are volatile times. Learn to live with it because massive injections of money along with massive disappearances of assets will continue. The value of the dollar has been volatile both up and down in the past year, only getting worse. The author also totally misses the point that gold is up 3X since 2001 while stocks are down 40%. If you toss in the inflation factor, stocks are down much more than 40%. Priced in gold, the stock market is down 75% since 2001, not a particularly great place to "preserve" one's wealth.
Financial analyst Reggie Middleton who has been expertly dissecting the balance sheets of the major banks for the past 18 months (and none of it was good) says that besides the 117 banks on the FDIC's "short" list of potential failures, there are nearly another 1500 smaller banks on the "possible to probable" failure list.
Interesting to see gold and silver both follow the typical PPT 10 am "fishing line" takedown rule today as has been the norm for days/weeks now. I suspect that another day of DOW caving and gold rising simply could not be tolerated so soon following the election results. So they took down gold early and pumped the dollar. The PPT was not going to stand for having the potential to lock in the worst 3 days of stock results following an election in 100 years. And then the insult of having gold strengthen at the same time....no way! The PPT has Friday left to bail themselves out. I think they will succeed this time.
roadrunner >>
Yep, just like clockwork. I watched that 10AM takedown today minute by minute.
Funny how that seems happen with such regularity, it defies any normal scenarios in a free market. >>
The more plausible reason for the 10AM movement is most likely due to the release of economic data at that time. Such information released at 10am includes the following....
1. Construction spending. 2. ISM index. 3. Factory orders. 4. ISM services index. 5. Wholesale inventories. 6. Business inventories. 7. Michigan sentiment. 8. Leading indicators. 9. Philly Fed. 10. Consumer confidence. 11. New home sale. 12. Pending home sales.
Since all reports point to a recession it is no doubt that gold would fall on this information. >>
This has been going on for years. Long before reports pointed to any type of recessionary future, in fact they pointed in just the opposite direction.
That's the lynchpin.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>What the gold-bug article author fails to understand is that the gold price volatility is quite normal, just as the Dow and S&P is these days. These are volatile times. Learn to live with it because massive injections of money along with massive disappearances of assets will continue. The value of the dollar has been volatile both up and down in the past year, only getting worse. The author also totally misses the point that gold is up 3X since 2001 while stocks are down 40%. If you toss in the inflation factor, stocks are down much more than 40%. Priced in gold, the stock market is down 75% since 2001, not a particularly great place to "preserve" one's wealth.
Financial analyst Reggie Middleton who has been expertly dissecting the balance sheets of the major banks for the past 18 months (and none of it was good) says that besides the 117 banks on the FDIC's "short" list of potential failures, there are nearly another 1500 smaller banks on the "possible to probable" failure list.
Interesting to see gold and silver both follow the typical PPT 10 am "fishing line" takedown rule today as has been the norm for days/weeks now. I suspect that another day of DOW caving and gold rising simply could not be tolerated so soon following the election results. So they took down gold early and pumped the dollar. The PPT was not going to stand for having the potential to lock in the worst 3 days of stock results following an election in 100 years. And then the insult of having gold strengthen at the same time....no way! The PPT has Friday left to bail themselves out. I think they will succeed this time.
roadrunner >>
Yep, just like clockwork. I watched that 10AM takedown today minute by minute.
Funny how that seems happen with such regularity, it defies any normal scenarios in a free market. >>
The more plausible reason for the 10AM movement is most likely due to the release of economic data at that time. Such information released at 10am includes the following....
1. Construction spending. 2. ISM index. 3. Factory orders. 4. ISM services index. 5. Wholesale inventories. 6. Business inventories. 7. Michigan sentiment. 8. Leading indicators. 9. Philly Fed. 10. Consumer confidence. 11. New home sale. 12. Pending home sales.
Since all reports point to a recession it is no doubt that gold would fall on this information. >>
This has been going on for years. Long before reports pointed to any type of recessionary future, in fact they pointed in just the opposite direction.
That's the lynchpin. >>
I have been trying to state for years that gold is more closely tied to interest rates than the US dollar. The economic information released at 10am moves interest rates, hence gold will move with it--in both directions. There is no 10am conspiracy.
<< <i>I have been trying to state for years that gold is more closely tied to interest rates than the US dollar. The economic information released at 10am moves interest rates, hence gold will move with it--in both directions. There is no 10am conspiracy. >>
But the point is that it doesn't go in both directions. It's always a takedown.
I'm thinking you don't believe there is a PPT either.
Where have I called it a conspiracy? I have pointed out the regularity and the sustained direction downward, always downward.
It's an observation that deserves more than a cursory kick to the curb and a quick label of conspiracy in order to denegrate it.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Is there any evidence (not just anecdotal) that prices always (or almost always) fall at 10 a.m.? Has anyone tracked this?
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
<< <i>Is there any evidence (not just anecdotal) that prices always (or almost always) fall at 10 a.m.? Has anyone tracked this? >>
YES!
Roadrunner has tracked it far longer than I and he has referenced years of data to support this.
As he has stated, it defies any mathematical possibilities by a wide margin. It is not market forces and it defies logical explanation.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
I'm thinking you don't believe there is a PPT either.
I believe I am on record in this thread stating that I do not believe in any PPT that seeks to hold back the price of PMs or stocks for any length of time. There are trading limits in stocks and commodity markets that designed to curtail excessive speculation on a daily basis, so if this is perceived as manipulation, then so be it.
Believing that the gold market is "taken down" at 10am everyday, speaks to me as a concerted effort to manipulate prices. I read this as a conspiracy theory. You may not agree and that is ok by me.
If there is such a predicable movement in gold at 10am, then please tell me how I can exploit this. Sounds like a guaranteed money maker.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Any gains are going to get taxed whenever retirement money gets taken out. Who's to know what your marginal tax rate will actually be when you make that withdrawal? Sure, it might be lower because your income might be lower after you retire. Or, it might not. Tax rates could go up enough to offset the change in tax bracket. Easily. You might be considered "rich", you know.
The market went down approximately 10% over the course of 2 days this week. That's about equal to the 10% Early Withdrawal Penalty in an IRA or a 401K. Volatility is the new norm. There will probably be more of this than less of it in the coming months.
I'm skeptical that a confiscatory move by the House directed at retirement accounts would have legs. But, I was also skeptical about a Marxist ever getting himself elected as President along with an out of control socialist majority in both houses of Congress.
I also never thought that I'd see the whole banking system, the whole mortgage lending industry, the whole automotive industry, the whole insurance industry, and essentially the whole worldwide credit industry fall down on their knees together and whine to Congress until they got untold billions of taxpaper money while being held accountable for nothing in return.
I pulled my money out of my retirement accounts over a period of months because I didn't like the direction that the bureaucrats were going after Bear Stearns. In doing that, I avoided the 40% hit in stocks as the market declined this Fall.
The $850 Billion rich banker bailout is an even bigger signal than Bear Stearns, not to mention the bailouts for Freddie, Fannie, Lehman, Merrill, AIG, GM and Ford. If those events don't speak to you, then nothing ever will. My read on the phantom derivatives game of "hot potato" - is that the economy has been gored and that it will take many years to recover, let alone - to prosper.
And now, the election. The biggest clarion signal of all, regarding the direction of governmental policies. The assets that I had been holding back are going to join the rest, in cash and precious metals if I can find them. There's no fighting these types of massive economic policy signals. My flight to safety will continue - until the political tide can be turned back, if ever. My opinion now more than ever is that - Signals matter.
My assets have grown little tiny feet, and they are voting with their feet.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>I'm skeptical that a confiscatory move by the House directed at retirement accounts would have legs. >>
I wish I could say the same.
I'm afraid it has serious legs and I know that most retireees and those nearing retirement are shaking in their boots, worried sick.
It's happened before in other countries when socialists/Marxists have taken rule.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
“The market went down approximately 10% over the course of 2 days this week. That's about equal to the 10% Early Withdrawal Penalty in an IRA or a 401K. Volatility is the new norm. There will probably be more of this than less of it in the coming months.”
jmski52
This is very important!!!!
I think anyone serious about making a few bucks in the market better look at handling their own account.
This market is now going to become a traders market for a very long time.
All those lies about long term investing are dead unless long term is reduced to a 3-year max term.
Here are a couple of other things to keep in mind.
The new administration has not so far said that it will not raise taxes in many areas i.e. cap. Gains etc. Perhaps they just won’t say anything and pop it on us after January MAKING IT RETROACTIVE. Remember Clinton did that.
In addition I know that these guys in Washington are not the cutest cards in the deck, but how long will it take these socialists to figure out that each phase of the TARP has to be approved by the congress, and there is no reason to let Bush and the boys spend all the 700 billion their way?
There must be someone clever enough in the new administration to say, “hey wait, the holiday breaks are coming then January, then WE can play with the rest of the 700 Billion?”
Now just what do you think is going on that these world politicians are not telling us?
Does anyone recall all these governments printing all these hundreds of billions the last times we had a recession? Or the time before that etc.?
Is this our money from their reserves they are pumping in?
China Announces 4 Trillion Yuan Economic Stimulus (Update1) By Li Yanping and Chia-Peck Wong Nov. 9 (Bloomberg) --
China announced a 4 trillion yuan ($586 billion) stimulus plan to spur expansion in the world's fourth-largest economy, helping sustain global growth as the U.S., Europe and Japan teeter on the brink of recession. The funds, equivalent to almost a fifth of China's $3.3 trillion gross domestic product last year.
The more plausible reason for the 10AM movement is most likely due to the release of economic data at that time. Such information released at 10am includes the following....
Economic data does not come out every single day at 10 am. And it's not always good (ie good economic...gold goes down). If anything most of the data coming out has been bad for months. Gold still goes down nearly every morning. The PPT or ESF is certainly no myth since Reagan authorized by law in putting that group together in the aftermath of October 1987. The FED chairman has explicity stated in testimony to Congress that the president's Exchange Stabilization Fund is there to quiet markets when needed....and if needed, the gold market.
The author is doing what some here do - choosing a time frame that supports his position. That's why it's necessary to look back further than 7 years to evaluate an investment's long term prospects. Also, since 2001 the S&P is down from around 1140 to 920, so that's 20%, not 40%.
The author is looking at the economic cycle that began in 2001. This is reality. To confuse that by considering other time periods with drastically different conditions is foolish and will give you errroneous results. If you've been reading here for any length of time it should be clear that there are no more long true term investments. In fact one could go a step further and say there are no true investments, just degrees of speculation. Give the S&P a little more time to regain that -40% figure. In fact at some point, we'll be recollecting that the -40% days were the "good old days."
All those trillions of dollars being printed around the world are to cover the invisible, yet steadily mounting OTC derivatives losses.
I think it's positive for the dollar that China is also injecting liquidity. Now all the the major ecomomies are adding liquidity, which will balance currency risks to some degree. It will all boil down to which ecomomies show the best growth dynamics and which economies emerge from the global contraction, the soonest, that will set the tone for currency rates, for the next couple of years.
The negative dollar view that is held by many of the PM (and of course, now food, gun and ammo ) bugs, should be tempered by the fact that for the dollar to go down and especially sharply.....some other major currency(ies) have to show great relative strength against it. I am waiting for someone to make well thought out case for the "other" currency(ies).
BERG v. OBAMA ; WE THE PEOPLE - USA TODAY FULL PAGE Article 26kb
Two BREAKING NEWS DEVELOPMENTS - BERG v. OBAMA ; WE THE PEOPLE - USA TODAY FULL PAGE Article
Pass this one on far and wide. Its the truth. Produce or withdraw. Friday, November 7, 2008 BREAKING: Two Developments NUMBER ONE
If The Supreme Court Decides...?
At this point, Supreme Court Justice David Souter's Clerk informed Philip J. Berg, the lawyer who brought the case against Obama, that his petition for an injunction to stay the November 4th election was denied, but the Clerk also required the defendants to respond to the Writ of Certiorari (which requires the concurrence of four Justices) by December 1. At that time, Mr. Obama must present to the Court an authentic birth certificate, after which Mr. Berg will respond.
If Obama fails to do that, it is sure to inspire the skepticism of the Justices, who are unaccustomed to being defied. They will have to decide what to do about a president-elect who refuses to prove his natural-born citizenship.
"I can see a unanimous Court (en banc) decertifying the election if Obama refuses to produce his birth certificate," says Raymond S. Kraft, an attorney and writer. "They cannot do otherwise without abandoning all credibility as guardians of the Constitution. Even the most liberal justices, however loathe they may to do this, still consider themselves guardians of the Constitution. The Court is very jealous of its power - even over presidents, even over presidents-elect."
Also remember that on December 13, the Electoral College meets to casts its votes. If it has been determined that Mr. Obama is an illegal alien and therefore ineligible to become President of the United States , the Electors will be duty-bound to honor the Constitution.
NUMBER TWO
Draft of WTP full-page ad to be published in USA TODAY the week of November 10, 2008:
An Open Letter to Barack Obama:
Are you a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S. ?
Are you legally qualified to hold the Office of President?
The current governor of HI is Linda Lingle. She is a REPUBLICAN. She has put the birth certificate under seal and instructed the health dept not to show it unless Obama says ok.
With that being said... do you really think he is not a citizen and the Gov of HI, Linda Lingle, could have made an instant win for the repubs and she decided not to?
but feel free to enjoy the story. most everyone is laughing at it.
no where in that article do I see an ounce of proof or a smoking gun.
the "proof" offered is a question: "The issue is how can a short position of 25% of the world production of any commodity, held by one or two U.S. banks, not be manipulative?"
Answer: when 75% is owned by other entities. ;-)
The last I checked proof was not defined as an open ended question.
I also wonder how many people truly read these articles and think critically about what they are reading and try to refute it. Most just read a bit into it and soon their eyes glaze over and shake their fists at the cieling, yelling, "darn feds and large banks".
I never hear of manipulation when the price goes up. No sir. That is fundamentals. When it goes down it is manipulation.
<< <i>A couple of interesting things today first this,
BERG v. OBAMA ; WE THE PEOPLE - USA TODAY FULL PAGE Article 26kb
Two BREAKING NEWS DEVELOPMENTS - BERG v. OBAMA ; WE THE PEOPLE - USA TODAY FULL PAGE Article
Pass this one on far and wide. Its the truth. Produce or withdraw. Friday, November 7, 2008 BREAKING: Two Developments NUMBER ONE
If The Supreme Court Decides...?
At this point, Supreme Court Justice David Souter's Clerk informed Philip J. Berg, the lawyer who brought the case against Obama, that his petition for an injunction to stay the November 4th election was denied, but the Clerk also required the defendants to respond to the Writ of Certiorari (which requires the concurrence of four Justices) by December 1. At that time, Mr. Obama must present to the Court an authentic birth certificate, after which Mr. Berg will respond.
If Obama fails to do that, it is sure to inspire the skepticism of the Justices, who are unaccustomed to being defied. They will have to decide what to do about a president-elect who refuses to prove his natural-born citizenship.
"I can see a unanimous Court (en banc) decertifying the election if Obama refuses to produce his birth certificate," says Raymond S. Kraft, an attorney and writer. "They cannot do otherwise without abandoning all credibility as guardians of the Constitution. Even the most liberal justices, however loathe they may to do this, still consider themselves guardians of the Constitution. The Court is very jealous of its power - even over presidents, even over presidents-elect."
Also remember that on December 13, the Electoral College meets to casts its votes. If it has been determined that Mr. Obama is an illegal alien and therefore ineligible to become President of the United States , the Electors will be duty-bound to honor the Constitution. >>
In addition, 24 of the electors in the Electoral College have also filed suit.
It's far from a laughing matter.
Due to Hawaii not becoming a state till 1959, virtually no one there had a birth certificate, something most US Citizens need. They were handed out rather willy-nilly back in those days. However, they were not a certificate of live birth, the type that lists the location, the attending Doctor, nurses and so forth.
The Hawaii certificate was sealed due to Obama's lawyers swarming in Hawaii and their actions. Gee, given that bit of info, it's no wonder why it was sealed.
There are living witnesses to his birth in Kenya and some have signed affidavits to that effect.
Will we live by the rule of law or not?
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>A couple of interesting things today first this,
BERG v. OBAMA ; WE THE PEOPLE - USA TODAY FULL PAGE Article 26kb
Two BREAKING NEWS DEVELOPMENTS - BERG v. OBAMA ; WE THE PEOPLE - USA TODAY FULL PAGE Article
Pass this one on far and wide. Its the truth. Produce or withdraw. Friday, November 7, 2008 BREAKING: Two Developments NUMBER ONE
If The Supreme Court Decides...?
At this point, Supreme Court Justice David Souter's Clerk informed Philip J. Berg, the lawyer who brought the case against Obama, that his petition for an injunction to stay the November 4th election was denied, but the Clerk also required the defendants to respond to the Writ of Certiorari (which requires the concurrence of four Justices) by December 1. At that time, Mr. Obama must present to the Court an authentic birth certificate, after which Mr. Berg will respond.
If Obama fails to do that, it is sure to inspire the skepticism of the Justices, who are unaccustomed to being defied. They will have to decide what to do about a president-elect who refuses to prove his natural-born citizenship.
"I can see a unanimous Court (en banc) decertifying the election if Obama refuses to produce his birth certificate," says Raymond S. Kraft, an attorney and writer. "They cannot do otherwise without abandoning all credibility as guardians of the Constitution. Even the most liberal justices, however loathe they may to do this, still consider themselves guardians of the Constitution. The Court is very jealous of its power - even over presidents, even over presidents-elect."
Also remember that on December 13, the Electoral College meets to casts its votes. If it has been determined that Mr. Obama is an illegal alien and therefore ineligible to become President of the United States , the Electors will be duty-bound to honor the Constitution. >>
In addition, 24 of the electors in the Electoral College have also filed suit.
It's far from a laughing matter.
Due to Hawaii not becoming a state till 1959, virtually no one there had a birth certificate, something most US Citizens need. They were handed out rather willy-nilly back in those days. However, they were not a certificate of live birth, the type that lists the location, the attending Doctor, nurses and so forth.
The Hawaii certificate was sealed due to Obama's lawyers swarming in Hawaii and their actions. Gee, given that bit of info, it's no wonder why it was sealed.
There are living witnesses to his birth in Kenya and some have signed affidavits to that effect.
Will we live by the rule of law or not? >>
I have to admit, i will not complain if it is proven he is not a US citizen. Actually I will jump for joy. I just think Linda Lingle would have helped her party is there was any chance to do so. All it would take would be a few phone calls to a few people saying keep up the good fight.. you are on the right track.
I find it laughable to say that the Supreme Court would valiantly stand by the constitution and put a big "X" on the Obama victory. They aren't completely stupid.
<< <i>I find it laughable to say that the Supreme Court would valiantly stand by the constitution and put a big "X" on the Obama victory. They aren't completely stupid. >>
I'm not really sure what you are saying here. However, the Supremes DO NOT put up with lawyers who do not produce documentation as they have been ordered to by law. Mr. Berg had a previous lawsuit and the Obama lawyers ignored that Judge's order, obviously they couldn't produce the evidence on the appointed date. That's why we are now in front of the US Supreme Court. They can't refuse this order and without the evidence to the legality of the candidate, the Electoral College, by law, cannot vote for such an individual.
No, they are far from stupid. They may disagree on some issues, but they do know what the US Constitution requires and they will demand that it be upheld.
To think anything else is foolish and short-sighted.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
May not quite constitute proof, but it certainly adds to the burgeoning list of evidence.
Now it includes the regulators. Can't say I'm surprised in the least.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
It was the regulators turning a blind eye to the derivatives issues that got us to where we are today. It seems very realistic that since weak gold and silver would have helped to shore up the dollar and financial systems, that the regulators would also turn a blind eye towards anything that would help bash gold.
Another way to look at the question of whether manipulation exists:
Consider that you kidnapped during a vacation and were being held at gun point by people trafficking in live human body parts. As a sporting gesture they gave you a free out from immediate and certain death if you would respond accurately to the following question.
Were major US banks, FED, and Treasury involved with the consistent manipulation of the price of gold and silver throughout the 2004-2008 time period. Yes.......No.......
There is only one right answer. One of the kidnappers has an inside link to a senior VP in the "super secret" trading dept of the major banks and Treasury and he with 100% certainty knows the answer. If you answer correctly you will be freed to return to your family. A wrong answer will result in your demise. So what would fc answer in this situation? A failure to answer immediately results in the same way as being wrong. Note that there is no smoking gun or perfect proof. You have to go with your gut. How would you answer? I would of course take the "yes" answer and roll the dice. I feel there is more circumstantial evidence to the "yeah" side. And besides, why not manipulate gold if you can do so with impunity and better control the currency markets? After all, who would come after you?
May not quite constitute proof, but it certainly adds to the burgeoning list of evidence.
Now it includes the regulators. Can't say I'm surprised in the least. >>
Chase is one of the strongest banks around and might hint at the real problem underlying the economy; derivatives have become so massive that the smooth operation of the economy is necessary for it to work at all.
Remember it was an unexpected blip higher in gold that drove LTCM out of business and nearly upset the whole applecart.
Massive changes are necessary because of oil, and to a much lesser extent silver and coal, being revalued.
It is simply astounding that with 1987 as a warning the regula- tors did absolutely nothing to prevent derivatives growth.
Let's not forget that besides the usual flavor of derivatives in MBS or CDS, there are also hundreds of BILLIONS of $$ of very toxic gold derivatives out there, many or most in the hands of JPMorgan. One way to help keep the paper gold price controlled is through a massive paper leveraging campaign....at least until that paper sees the light of day and is fully exposed for what it is.
Comments
<< <i>is this nonsense? -- pay close attention to paragraph 3 of section I; >>
Not nonsense at all. This has been in the works by the current Congress the last few months and it all depended on if their guy won.
Well, he did.
Worse, when a person dies they will no longer be able to bequeth their assets to their children and such. The Government takes it all.
Little did people know that their IRAs that they worked for all their lifetimes are now going to be stolen from them.
It's called spreading the wealth, don't you know?
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>what kind of proof do I need to send people to college? isn't that one of the way's out of an IRA? >>
Not up on the rules there as I've never had an IRA for many reasons, mostly personal decision.
However, if you don't do something fast, you won't be needing to worry about any way out.
You won't have your IRA anymore, it will be taken by Social Security and there's not a thing you can do about it.
It won't be your money anymore, it will be "shared" as it is wealth. It will be your patriotic duty to smile and accept the theft of your assets.
Saul Alinsky is partying in his grave. After all, you will be lending a helping hand to those who are generational welfare addicts and those who have never saved a dime in their life. It's easy to get votes when you buy them with other people's money.
You must be one of those evil rich people, shame on you! Now they are going to make you pay for that crime.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Other loopholes still exist to transfer one's wealth away. One of those include gifting up to $10,000/yr (or whatever the current number is) to "family" members. But it's not out of the realm of possibility that this could be removed as well.
roadrunner
Times have changed right before our eyes. Yes we knew we were headed for a socialist society but the waves of change are happening very fast now, and wealth protection is of the utmost importance. Many State and local governments are already socialist, and now the entire Federal Government is socialist.
This new administration was the most unlikely group to ever be elected into office, and this is an important signal as to how things will be in the future.
There are now so many people dependant of government for their jobs, and their checks in the mail, that in my opinion we will not see a change in this socialist style of government in our lifetimes.
Don’t waste any time listening to the Rush Limbaugh’s, Glenn Beck’s of the world telling you how we can once again be that America of yesterday! That day is gone! No longer can the mob be out voted.
Those of us that lived much of the last 50 years have lived in the most prosperous county with the most freedom ever enjoyed by any human beings inhabiting this planet. However all things have a beginning and end, and the peak of our society has now been reached.
Desperation will now be the call of the day as Americans join the ranks of other peoples around the world in a much less affluent day-to-day survival.
We cannot be far off now from a time when government’s choices to support its socialist society must either be to just print money, or confiscate it, and redistribute.
The upper middle class upward must now learn to do what successful people in other parts of the world have had to do for decades, HIDE.
Hide your wealth, get off of the grid, pay off your debt, and your mortgage if you can.
Keep some cash hidden away from government eyes; C.D.’S and bonds won’t pay anything now anyway.
Hide your gold and silver; buy some slabbed coins where there is no question that they are numismatic.
Get small in the eyes of the public and stay that way.
Forget about the stock market regaining its highs of 2007, this is just not going to happen. The big players have left or are busted. The baby boomers are looking for the exits.
We can look forward to many many large businesses being nationalized the next few years. The car companies are toast, the airlines will fall before long, and the nations banks are in the process. All shareholders and debt holders in these industries have already lost their money; they just don’t know it yet.
Don’t buy debt in the form of bonds, notes, etc. in large corporations or government entities.
Basically stay out of paper assets as much as possible, if one must have money in the stock market buy companies that pay dividends in industries that have hard assets i.e. Steel, copper, nickel, gold, silver, cement, etc. Only buy these on the big dip periods, which will be numerous the next several months.
For small investments keep all your metal change, nickels and up.
Keep two months of food in the house at all times.
Buy a firearm and some ammo, if you don’t have one, before you can’t!
If you're reading this thread you better not just read for amusement, reality is comin' at you. Get your money, get your guns and ammo and carry permit , get your metal, GET OUT OF DEBT RIGHT NOW! Don't be snoozin' or you'll be losin'. Don't say no one told you. If you think your benevolent uncle is going to treat you right and take care of you, well, good luck with that. For the rest of you, get small, really small.
I knew it would happen.
Agreed, even probably good to keep a small stock account to play with but mostly as bait for profile checkers. A little mortgage, a little stock account. Little...little.
Edited to reiterate Dr. Hunter S. Thompson..."When the goin' gets weird, the weird turn pro."
<< <i>
<< <i>What the gold-bug article author fails to understand is that the gold price volatility is quite normal, just as the Dow and S&P is these days. These are volatile times. Learn to live with it because massive injections of money along with massive disappearances of assets will continue. The value of the dollar has been volatile both up and down in the past year, only getting worse. The author also totally misses the point that gold is up 3X since 2001 while stocks are down 40%. If you toss in the inflation factor, stocks are down much more than 40%. Priced in gold, the stock market is down 75% since 2001, not a particularly great place to "preserve" one's wealth.
Financial analyst Reggie Middleton who has been expertly dissecting the balance sheets of the major banks for the past 18 months (and none of it was good) says that besides the 117 banks on the FDIC's "short" list of potential failures, there are nearly another 1500 smaller banks on the "possible to probable" failure list.
Interesting to see gold and silver both follow the typical PPT 10 am "fishing line" takedown rule today as has been the norm for days/weeks now. I suspect that another day of DOW caving and gold rising simply could not be tolerated so soon following the election results. So they took down gold early and pumped the dollar. The PPT was not going to stand for having the potential to lock in the worst 3 days of stock results following an election in 100 years. And then the insult of having gold strengthen at the same time....no way! The PPT has Friday left to bail themselves out. I think they will succeed this time.
roadrunner >>
Yep, just like clockwork. I watched that 10AM takedown today minute by minute.
Funny how that seems happen with such regularity, it defies any normal scenarios in a free market. >>
The more plausible reason for the 10AM movement is most likely due to the release of economic data at that time. Such information released at 10am includes the following....
1. Construction spending.
2. ISM index.
3. Factory orders.
4. ISM services index.
5. Wholesale inventories.
6. Business inventories.
7. Michigan sentiment.
8. Leading indicators.
9. Philly Fed.
10. Consumer confidence.
11. New home sale.
12. Pending home sales.
Since all reports point to a recession it is no doubt that gold would fall on this information.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
The author is doing what some here do - choosing a time frame that supports his position. That's why it's necessary to look back further than 7 years to evaluate an investment's long term prospects. Also, since 2001 the S&P is down from around 1140 to 920, so that's 20%, not 40%.
Dems Target Private Retirement Accounts
I intentionally set it up to be rather low and manageable in the case of many unfortunate personal possibilities.
This, however, was never in my thought process several years ago.
I never believed we would ever be this "unfortunate" as an entire nation.
RR, the gifting clause is now up to 12K, but we all know that laws can be changed retroactively.
Still, that does't apply to getting out of your IRA before it is nationalized/confiscated.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What the gold-bug article author fails to understand is that the gold price volatility is quite normal, just as the Dow and S&P is these days. These are volatile times. Learn to live with it because massive injections of money along with massive disappearances of assets will continue. The value of the dollar has been volatile both up and down in the past year, only getting worse. The author also totally misses the point that gold is up 3X since 2001 while stocks are down 40%. If you toss in the inflation factor, stocks are down much more than 40%. Priced in gold, the stock market is down 75% since 2001, not a particularly great place to "preserve" one's wealth.
Financial analyst Reggie Middleton who has been expertly dissecting the balance sheets of the major banks for the past 18 months (and none of it was good) says that besides the 117 banks on the FDIC's "short" list of potential failures, there are nearly another 1500 smaller banks on the "possible to probable" failure list.
Interesting to see gold and silver both follow the typical PPT 10 am "fishing line" takedown rule today as has been the norm for days/weeks now. I suspect that another day of DOW caving and gold rising simply could not be tolerated so soon following the election results. So they took down gold early and pumped the dollar. The PPT was not going to stand for having the potential to lock in the worst 3 days of stock results following an election in 100 years. And then the insult of having gold strengthen at the same time....no way! The PPT has Friday left to bail themselves out. I think they will succeed this time.
roadrunner >>
Yep, just like clockwork. I watched that 10AM takedown today minute by minute.
Funny how that seems happen with such regularity, it defies any normal scenarios in a free market. >>
The more plausible reason for the 10AM movement is most likely due to the release of economic data at that time. Such information released at 10am includes the following....
1. Construction spending.
2. ISM index.
3. Factory orders.
4. ISM services index.
5. Wholesale inventories.
6. Business inventories.
7. Michigan sentiment.
8. Leading indicators.
9. Philly Fed.
10. Consumer confidence.
11. New home sale.
12. Pending home sales.
Since all reports point to a recession it is no doubt that gold would fall on this information. >>
This has been going on for years. Long before reports pointed to any type of recessionary future, in fact they pointed in just the opposite direction.
That's the lynchpin.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What the gold-bug article author fails to understand is that the gold price volatility is quite normal, just as the Dow and S&P is these days. These are volatile times. Learn to live with it because massive injections of money along with massive disappearances of assets will continue. The value of the dollar has been volatile both up and down in the past year, only getting worse. The author also totally misses the point that gold is up 3X since 2001 while stocks are down 40%. If you toss in the inflation factor, stocks are down much more than 40%. Priced in gold, the stock market is down 75% since 2001, not a particularly great place to "preserve" one's wealth.
Financial analyst Reggie Middleton who has been expertly dissecting the balance sheets of the major banks for the past 18 months (and none of it was good) says that besides the 117 banks on the FDIC's "short" list of potential failures, there are nearly another 1500 smaller banks on the "possible to probable" failure list.
Interesting to see gold and silver both follow the typical PPT 10 am "fishing line" takedown rule today as has been the norm for days/weeks now. I suspect that another day of DOW caving and gold rising simply could not be tolerated so soon following the election results. So they took down gold early and pumped the dollar. The PPT was not going to stand for having the potential to lock in the worst 3 days of stock results following an election in 100 years. And then the insult of having gold strengthen at the same time....no way! The PPT has Friday left to bail themselves out. I think they will succeed this time.
roadrunner >>
Yep, just like clockwork. I watched that 10AM takedown today minute by minute.
Funny how that seems happen with such regularity, it defies any normal scenarios in a free market. >>
The more plausible reason for the 10AM movement is most likely due to the release of economic data at that time. Such information released at 10am includes the following....
1. Construction spending.
2. ISM index.
3. Factory orders.
4. ISM services index.
5. Wholesale inventories.
6. Business inventories.
7. Michigan sentiment.
8. Leading indicators.
9. Philly Fed.
10. Consumer confidence.
11. New home sale.
12. Pending home sales.
Since all reports point to a recession it is no doubt that gold would fall on this information. >>
This has been going on for years. Long before reports pointed to any type of recessionary future, in fact they pointed in just the opposite direction.
That's the lynchpin. >>
I have been trying to state for years that gold is more closely tied to interest rates than the US dollar. The economic information released at 10am moves interest rates, hence gold will move with it--in both directions. There is no 10am conspiracy.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>I have been trying to state for years that gold is more closely tied to interest rates than the US dollar. The economic information released at 10am moves interest rates, hence gold will move with it--in both directions. There is no 10am conspiracy. >>
But the point is that it doesn't go in both directions. It's always a takedown.
I'm thinking you don't believe there is a PPT either.
Where have I called it a conspiracy? I have pointed out the regularity and the sustained direction downward, always downward.
It's an observation that deserves more than a cursory kick to the curb and a quick label of conspiracy in order to denegrate it.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Is there any evidence (not just anecdotal) that prices always (or almost always) fall at 10 a.m.? Has anyone tracked this? >>
YES!
Roadrunner has tracked it far longer than I and he has referenced years of data to support this.
As he has stated, it defies any mathematical possibilities by a wide margin. It is not market forces and it defies logical explanation.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
I'm thinking you don't believe there is a PPT either.
I believe I am on record in this thread stating that I do not believe in any PPT that seeks to hold back the price of PMs or stocks for any length of time. There are trading limits in stocks and commodity markets that designed to curtail excessive speculation on a daily basis, so if this is perceived as manipulation, then so be it.
Believing that the gold market is "taken down" at 10am everyday, speaks to me as a concerted effort to manipulate prices. I read this as a conspiracy theory. You may not agree and that is ok by me.
If there is such a predicable movement in gold at 10am, then please tell me how I can exploit this. Sounds like a guaranteed money maker.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>If there is such a predicable movement in gold at 10am, then please tell me how I can exploit this. Sounds like a guaranteed money maker. >>
You're a smart guy, you should be able to figure that part all on your own.
As far as the Plunge Protection Team/PPT, well here are over a quarter million hits on Google that would suggest that they do inded exist.
PPT whether one believes they exist or not
Still another regarding precious metals
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Any gains are going to get taxed whenever retirement money gets taken out. Who's to know what your marginal tax rate will actually be when you make that withdrawal? Sure, it might be lower because your income might be lower after you retire. Or, it might not. Tax rates could go up enough to offset the change in tax bracket. Easily. You might be considered "rich", you know.
The market went down approximately 10% over the course of 2 days this week. That's about equal to the 10% Early Withdrawal Penalty in an IRA or a 401K. Volatility is the new norm. There will probably be more of this than less of it in the coming months.
I'm skeptical that a confiscatory move by the House directed at retirement accounts would have legs. But, I was also skeptical about a Marxist ever getting himself elected as President along with an out of control socialist majority in both houses of Congress.
I also never thought that I'd see the whole banking system, the whole mortgage lending industry, the whole automotive industry, the whole insurance industry, and essentially the whole worldwide credit industry fall down on their knees together and whine to Congress until they got untold billions of taxpaper money while being held accountable for nothing in return.
I pulled my money out of my retirement accounts over a period of months because I didn't like the direction that the bureaucrats were going after Bear Stearns. In doing that, I avoided the 40% hit in stocks as the market declined this Fall.
The $850 Billion rich banker bailout is an even bigger signal than Bear Stearns, not to mention the bailouts for Freddie, Fannie, Lehman, Merrill, AIG, GM and Ford. If those events don't speak to you, then nothing ever will. My read on the phantom derivatives game of "hot potato" - is that the economy has been gored and that it will take many years to recover, let alone - to prosper.
And now, the election. The biggest clarion signal of all, regarding the direction of governmental policies. The assets that I had been holding back are going to join the rest, in cash and precious metals if I can find them. There's no fighting these types of massive economic policy signals. My flight to safety will continue - until the political tide can be turned back, if ever. My opinion now more than ever is that - Signals matter.
My assets have grown little tiny feet, and they are voting with their feet.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I'm skeptical that a confiscatory move by the House directed at retirement accounts would have legs. >>
I wish I could say the same.
I'm afraid it has serious legs and I know that most retireees and those nearing retirement are shaking in their boots, worried sick.
It's happened before in other countries when socialists/Marxists have taken rule.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
“The market went down approximately 10% over the course of 2 days this week. That's about equal to the 10% Early Withdrawal Penalty in an IRA or a 401K. Volatility is the new norm. There will probably be more of this than less of it in the coming months.”
jmski52
This is very important!!!!
I think anyone serious about making a few bucks in the market better look at handling their own account.
This market is now going to become a traders market for a very long time.
All those lies about long term investing are dead unless long term is reduced to a 3-year max term.
Here are a couple of other things to keep in mind.
The new administration has not so far said that it will not raise taxes in many areas i.e. cap. Gains etc.
Perhaps they just won’t say anything and pop it on us after January MAKING IT RETROACTIVE.
Remember Clinton did that.
In addition I know that these guys in Washington are not the cutest cards in the deck, but how long will it take these socialists to figure out that each phase of the TARP has to be approved by the congress, and there is no reason to let Bush and the boys spend all the 700 billion their way?
There must be someone clever enough in the new administration to say, “hey wait, the holiday breaks are coming then January, then WE can play with the rest of the 700 Billion?”
<< <i>Cash or Gold? >>
linky goes oopsie
<< <i>Opps, try it now
Now just what do you think is going on that these world politicians are not telling us?
Does anyone recall all these governments printing all these hundreds of billions the last times we had a recession? Or the time before that etc.?
Is this our money from their reserves they are pumping in?
China Announces 4 Trillion Yuan Economic Stimulus (Update1)
By Li Yanping and Chia-Peck Wong
Nov. 9 (Bloomberg) --
China announced a 4 trillion yuan ($586 billion) stimulus plan to spur expansion in the world's fourth-largest economy, helping sustain global growth as the U.S., Europe and Japan teeter on the brink of recession.
The funds, equivalent to almost a fifth of China's $3.3 trillion gross domestic product last year.
Economic data does not come out every single day at 10 am. And it's not always good (ie good economic...gold goes down). If anything most of the data coming out has been bad for months. Gold still goes down nearly every morning. The PPT or ESF is certainly no myth since Reagan authorized by law in putting that group together in the aftermath of October 1987. The FED chairman has explicity stated in testimony to Congress that the president's Exchange Stabilization Fund is there to quiet markets when needed....and if needed, the gold market.
The author is doing what some here do - choosing a time frame that supports his position. That's why it's necessary to look back further than 7 years to evaluate an investment's long term prospects. Also, since 2001 the S&P is down from around 1140 to 920, so that's 20%, not 40%.
The author is looking at the economic cycle that began in 2001. This is reality. To confuse that by considering other time periods with drastically different conditions is foolish and will give you errroneous results. If you've been reading here for any length of time it should be clear that there are no more long true term investments. In fact one could go a step further and say there are no true investments, just degrees of speculation. Give the S&P a little more time to regain that -40% figure. In fact at some point, we'll be recollecting that the -40% days were the "good old days."
All those trillions of dollars being printed around the world are to cover the invisible, yet steadily mounting OTC derivatives losses.
roadrunner
The negative dollar view that is held by many of the PM (and of course, now food, gun and ammo
BERG v. OBAMA ; WE THE PEOPLE - USA TODAY FULL PAGE Article 26kb
Two BREAKING NEWS DEVELOPMENTS - BERG v. OBAMA ; WE THE PEOPLE - USA TODAY FULL PAGE Article
Pass this one on far and wide. Its the truth. Produce or withdraw.
Friday, November 7, 2008
BREAKING: Two Developments
NUMBER ONE
If The Supreme Court Decides...?
At this point, Supreme Court Justice David Souter's Clerk informed Philip J. Berg, the lawyer who brought the case against Obama, that his petition for an injunction to stay the November 4th election was denied, but the Clerk also required the defendants to respond to the Writ of Certiorari (which requires the concurrence of four Justices) by December 1. At that time, Mr. Obama must present to the Court an authentic birth certificate, after which Mr. Berg will respond.
If Obama fails to do that, it is sure to inspire the skepticism of the Justices, who are unaccustomed to being defied. They will have to decide what to do about a president-elect who refuses to prove his natural-born citizenship.
"I can see a unanimous Court (en banc) decertifying the election if Obama refuses to produce his birth certificate," says Raymond S. Kraft, an attorney and writer. "They cannot do otherwise without abandoning all credibility as guardians of the Constitution. Even the most liberal justices, however loathe they may to do this, still consider themselves guardians of the Constitution. The Court is very jealous of its power - even over presidents, even over presidents-elect."
Also remember that on December 13, the Electoral College meets to casts its votes. If it has been determined that Mr. Obama is an illegal alien and therefore ineligible to become President of the United States , the Electors will be duty-bound to honor the Constitution.
NUMBER TWO
Draft of WTP full-page ad to be published in USA TODAY the week of November 10, 2008:
An Open Letter to Barack Obama:
Are you a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S. ?
Are you legally qualified to hold the Office of President?
Next who has heard of the Amaro?
LINK
She has put the birth certificate under seal and instructed the health
dept not to show it unless Obama says ok.
With that being said... do you really think he is not a citizen and the
Gov of HI, Linda Lingle, could have made an instant win for the repubs
and she decided not to?
but feel free to enjoy the story. most everyone is laughing at it.
It's simple, show you're a citizen and then press on and lead.
If not, step aside Mr. Undocumented Worker.
Ren
LINK
<< <i>There is compelling new proof of a silver (and gold) price manipulation
LINK >>
no where in that article do I see an ounce of proof or a smoking
gun.
the "proof" offered is a question: "The issue is how can a short position of 25% of the world production of any commodity, held by one or two U.S. banks, not be manipulative?"
Answer: when 75% is owned by other entities. ;-)
The last I checked proof was not defined as an open ended question.
I also wonder how many people truly read these articles and think
critically about what they are reading and try to refute it. Most just
read a bit into it and soon their eyes glaze over and shake their fists
at the cieling, yelling, "darn feds and large banks".
I never hear of manipulation when the price goes up. No sir. That is
fundamentals. When it goes down it is manipulation.
<< <i>A couple of interesting things today first this,
BERG v. OBAMA ; WE THE PEOPLE - USA TODAY FULL PAGE Article 26kb
Two BREAKING NEWS DEVELOPMENTS - BERG v. OBAMA ; WE THE PEOPLE - USA TODAY FULL PAGE Article
Pass this one on far and wide. Its the truth. Produce or withdraw.
Friday, November 7, 2008
BREAKING: Two Developments
NUMBER ONE
If The Supreme Court Decides...?
At this point, Supreme Court Justice David Souter's Clerk informed Philip J. Berg, the lawyer who brought the case against Obama, that his petition for an injunction to stay the November 4th election was denied, but the Clerk also required the defendants to respond to the Writ of Certiorari (which requires the concurrence of four Justices) by December 1. At that time, Mr. Obama must present to the Court an authentic birth certificate, after which Mr. Berg will respond.
If Obama fails to do that, it is sure to inspire the skepticism of the Justices, who are unaccustomed to being defied. They will have to decide what to do about a president-elect who refuses to prove his natural-born citizenship.
"I can see a unanimous Court (en banc) decertifying the election if Obama refuses to produce his birth certificate," says Raymond S. Kraft, an attorney and writer. "They cannot do otherwise without abandoning all credibility as guardians of the Constitution. Even the most liberal justices, however loathe they may to do this, still consider themselves guardians of the Constitution. The Court is very jealous of its power - even over presidents, even over presidents-elect."
Also remember that on December 13, the Electoral College meets to casts its votes. If it has been determined that Mr. Obama is an illegal alien and therefore ineligible to become President of the United States , the Electors will be duty-bound to honor the Constitution. >>
In addition, 24 of the electors in the Electoral College have also filed suit.
It's far from a laughing matter.
Due to Hawaii not becoming a state till 1959, virtually no one there had a birth certificate, something most US Citizens need. They were handed out rather willy-nilly back in those days. However, they were not a certificate of live birth, the type that lists the location, the attending Doctor, nurses and so forth.
The Hawaii certificate was sealed due to Obama's lawyers swarming in Hawaii and their actions. Gee, given that bit of info, it's no wonder why it was sealed.
There are living witnesses to his birth in Kenya and some have signed affidavits to that effect.
Will we live by the rule of law or not?
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>
<< <i>A couple of interesting things today first this,
BERG v. OBAMA ; WE THE PEOPLE - USA TODAY FULL PAGE Article 26kb
Two BREAKING NEWS DEVELOPMENTS - BERG v. OBAMA ; WE THE PEOPLE - USA TODAY FULL PAGE Article
Pass this one on far and wide. Its the truth. Produce or withdraw.
Friday, November 7, 2008
BREAKING: Two Developments
NUMBER ONE
If The Supreme Court Decides...?
At this point, Supreme Court Justice David Souter's Clerk informed Philip J. Berg, the lawyer who brought the case against Obama, that his petition for an injunction to stay the November 4th election was denied, but the Clerk also required the defendants to respond to the Writ of Certiorari (which requires the concurrence of four Justices) by December 1. At that time, Mr. Obama must present to the Court an authentic birth certificate, after which Mr. Berg will respond.
If Obama fails to do that, it is sure to inspire the skepticism of the Justices, who are unaccustomed to being defied. They will have to decide what to do about a president-elect who refuses to prove his natural-born citizenship.
"I can see a unanimous Court (en banc) decertifying the election if Obama refuses to produce his birth certificate," says Raymond S. Kraft, an attorney and writer. "They cannot do otherwise without abandoning all credibility as guardians of the Constitution. Even the most liberal justices, however loathe they may to do this, still consider themselves guardians of the Constitution. The Court is very jealous of its power - even over presidents, even over presidents-elect."
Also remember that on December 13, the Electoral College meets to casts its votes. If it has been determined that Mr. Obama is an illegal alien and therefore ineligible to become President of the United States , the Electors will be duty-bound to honor the Constitution. >>
In addition, 24 of the electors in the Electoral College have also filed suit.
It's far from a laughing matter.
Due to Hawaii not becoming a state till 1959, virtually no one there had a birth certificate, something most US Citizens need. They were handed out rather willy-nilly back in those days. However, they were not a certificate of live birth, the type that lists the location, the attending Doctor, nurses and so forth.
The Hawaii certificate was sealed due to Obama's lawyers swarming in Hawaii and their actions. Gee, given that bit of info, it's no wonder why it was sealed.
There are living witnesses to his birth in Kenya and some have signed affidavits to that effect.
Will we live by the rule of law or not? >>
I have to admit, i will not complain if it is proven he is not a US citizen.
Actually I will jump for joy. I just think Linda Lingle would have helped
her party is there was any chance to do so. All it would take would
be a few phone calls to a few people saying keep up the good fight..
you are on the right track.
<< <i>I find it laughable to say that the Supreme Court would valiantly stand by the constitution and put a big "X" on the Obama victory. They aren't completely stupid. >>
I'm not really sure what you are saying here. However, the Supremes DO NOT put up with lawyers who do not produce documentation as they have been ordered to by law. Mr. Berg had a previous lawsuit and the Obama lawyers ignored that Judge's order, obviously they couldn't produce the evidence on the appointed date. That's why we are now in front of the US Supreme Court. They can't refuse this order and without the evidence to the legality of the candidate, the Electoral College, by law, cannot vote for such an individual.
No, they are far from stupid. They may disagree on some issues, but they do know what the US Constitution requires and they will demand that it be upheld.
To think anything else is foolish and short-sighted.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>There is compelling new proof of a silver (and gold) price manipulation
LINK >>
May not quite constitute proof, but it certainly adds to the burgeoning list of evidence.
Now it includes the regulators. Can't say I'm surprised in the least.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Another way to look at the question of whether manipulation exists:
Consider that you kidnapped during a vacation and were being held at gun point by people trafficking in live human body parts. As a sporting gesture they gave you a free out from immediate and certain death if you would respond accurately to the following question.
Were major US banks, FED, and Treasury involved with the consistent manipulation of the price of gold and silver throughout the 2004-2008 time period. Yes.......No.......
There is only one right answer. One of the kidnappers has an inside link to a senior VP in the "super secret" trading dept of the major banks and Treasury and he with 100% certainty knows the answer. If you answer correctly you will be freed to return to your family. A wrong answer will result in your demise. So what would fc answer in this situation? A failure to answer immediately results in the same way as being wrong. Note that there is no smoking gun or perfect proof. You have to go with your gut. How would you answer? I would of course take the "yes" answer and roll the dice. I feel there is more circumstantial evidence to the "yeah" side. And besides, why not manipulate gold if you can do so with impunity and better control the currency markets? After all, who would come after you?
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>There is compelling new proof of a silver (and gold) price manipulation
LINK >>
May not quite constitute proof, but it certainly adds to the burgeoning list of evidence.
Now it includes the regulators. Can't say I'm surprised in the least. >>
Chase is one of the strongest banks around and might hint
at the real problem underlying the economy; derivatives have
become so massive that the smooth operation of the economy
is necessary for it to work at all.
Remember it was an unexpected blip higher in gold that drove
LTCM out of business and nearly upset the whole applecart.
Massive changes are necessary because of oil, and to a much
lesser extent silver and coal, being revalued.
It is simply astounding that with 1987 as a warning the regula-
tors did absolutely nothing to prevent derivatives growth.
roadrunner