More like exercising their right to sell it for however much they want.
If someone wants to pay that much it will sell. If not, then the seller can choose to lower the price or keep it.
Exactly. Sometimes it is not greed but love. I have stuff i don't care about that I routinely sell on a 5 or 10% margin. On the other hand, there are other things that I like too much to just sell at such a low margin. Everything is for sale, but I'm far more motivated to sell some things than others.
I once bought a rare Irish coin in a SB auction and marked it up 100% because it was super cool. It sold in less than 2 weeks. I regretted not marking it up 200%. But it wasn't because I thought i could have made more money. It was because I would have liked to have it around longer.
Hi Folks, new member here checking in. I just wanted to report to all that I was able to place an order for the 2024 Flowing Hair gold via the US mint website on January 1st. I was able to get the coin to "add to bag" about one week ago, and I had been dutifully logging in each morning at 07:30 EST, hitting "refresh" every 30 seconds or so. I was astonished when I was able to complete check out and got my order confirmation yesterday. For those that have been tracking the order numbers , mine is in the USM15009XXX range. My order is still showing as "processing" today, and I will keep you posted once I get a shipping confirmation. So there may still be hope for others , just keep trying. Please forgive the weird default avatar that was assigned to me (I did not pick that) I will change that as soon as I can. Happy New Year to all.
@MFezziwig said:
Hi Folks, new member here checking in. I just wanted to report to all that I was able to place an order for the 2024 Flowing Hair gold via the US mint website on January 1st. I was able to get the coin to "add to bag" about one week ago, and I had been dutifully logging in each morning at 07:30 EST, hitting "refresh" every 30 seconds or so. I was astonished when I was able to complete check out and got my order confirmation yesterday. For those that have been tracking the order numbers , mine is in the USM15009XXX range. My order is still showing as "processing" today, and I will keep you posted once I get a shipping confirmation. So there may still be hope for others , just keep trying. Please forgive the weird default avatar that was assigned to me (I did not pick that) I will change that as soon as I can. Happy New Year to all.
Mark
Now that is quite the first post, and yes, quite astonishing to say the least!!!!
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
Not to say that there will be anything wrong with it, but where do you think it could possibly come from, other than one of those 4 that were returned to inventory? Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up? Do you think it's a rejected credit card after 7 weeks, and that it never left the warehouse? Until now?
Of course it's a return! The $64,000 question is why anyone would return something like this to the Mint when they could easily make a few hundred dollars, at least, flipping it. Either they didn't know what they were doing (possible), or there is something wrong with it (more likely, but not guaranteed).
This is why, unless they suddenly release the missing 7500, I wouldn't mess around with these at 7:30 a.m., at $3600, expecting something I'd be happy with to become available out of nowhere after all this time.
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
Not to say that there will be anything wrong with it, but where do you think it could possibly come from, other than one of those 4 that were returned to inventory? Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up? Do you think it's a rejected credit card after 7 weeks, and that it never left the warehouse? Until now?
Of course it's a return! The $64,000 question is why anyone would return something like this to the Mint when they could easily make a few hundred dollars, at least, flipping it. Either they didn't know what they were doing (possible), or there is something wrong with it (more likely, but not guaranteed).
This is why, unless they suddenly release the missing 7500, I wouldn't mess around with these at 7:30 a.m., at $3600, expecting something I'd be happy with to become available out of nowhere after all this time.
There are other reasons for return ranging from bad addresses to refusal to be available for delivery when a signature is required. People sometimes also have buyer's remorse and don't know how to flip it.
The Mint does inspect returns before putting them back up for sale.
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
Not to say that there will be anything wrong with it, but where do you think it could possibly come from, other than one of those 4 that were returned to inventory? Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up? Do you think it's a rejected credit card after 7 weeks, and that it never left the warehouse? Until now?
Of course it's a return! The $64,000 question is why anyone would return something like this to the Mint when they could easily make a few hundred dollars, at least, flipping it. Either they didn't know what they were doing (possible), or there is something wrong with it (more likely, but not guaranteed).
This is why, unless they suddenly release the missing 7500, I wouldn't mess around with these at 7:30 a.m., at $3600, expecting something I'd be happy with to become available out of nowhere after all this time.
Or could it be a media/show/promotional piece that they no longer need? Or maybe reserves they have set aside for returns that they no longer need? Where do you get the confidence to think you know everything all of the time? I need some of that.
Or could it be a media/show/promotional piece that they no longer need? Or maybe reserves they have set aside for returns that they no longer need? Where do you get the confidence to think you know everything all of the time? I need some of that.
I know for a fact that the two Mint display FH Au coins at Baltimore Whitman Show were sold.
The change in numbers could also be an accounting error that they have corrected, as they adjust for final numbers. Either way hopefully they get the coin that the order allowed. Their system once let us order coins very late and they canceled the orders. Until it ships anything can happen.
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
Not to say that there will be anything wrong with it, but where do you think it could possibly come from, other than one of those 4 that were returned to inventory? Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up? Do you think it's a rejected credit card after 7 weeks, and that it never left the warehouse? Until now?
Of course it's a return! The $64,000 question is why anyone would return something like this to the Mint when they could easily make a few hundred dollars, at least, flipping it. Either they didn't know what they were doing (possible), or there is something wrong with it (more likely, but not guaranteed).
This is why, unless they suddenly release the missing 7500, I wouldn't mess around with these at 7:30 a.m., at $3600, expecting something I'd be happy with to become available out of nowhere after all this time.
Or could it be a media/show/promotional piece that they no longer need? Or maybe reserves they have set aside for returns that they no longer need? Where do you get the confidence to think you know everything all of the time? I need some of that.
I dunno. Some people have it and some people don't.
My understanding is that they do indeed overproduce in order to facilitate returns, but those coins are NOT placed on sale if not needed. The 12/23 report posted above indicates 4 came back. 2+2= one of those 4 finding its way into @MFezziwig's cart. Not a mysterious cache of reserve coins being released.
Again, not saying anything is wrong with it. @jmlanzaf is correct about coins being inspected before being returned to inventory. But every coin they ship has been cleared for sale, and we all know lots of crap from the Mint finds its way into our mailboxes.
He's wrong about undeliverable or refused items taking 6 weeks to find their way back to a warehouse. That takes a week or two, max. And I already allowed for the possibility, as opposed to probability, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the coin, and it was simply returned by someone who has no clue.
Sorry for the confidence, but I am 100% sure, not even 99.99%, but 100%, that a Currently Unavailable coin purchased on January 1st that sold out in 4 minutes on November 14th is a return.
A media/show/promotional piece for an item sold out on November 14th would likely have been released a week or two after that. Or not at all. As opposed to on January 1st, a week after 4 were returned to the Mint. The sales report still shows 21 coins unaccounted for. Those are likely the floaters you are speculating about.
I wouldn't risk $3600 to try to make 10% on it, but, as with everything, YMMV. We are all free to dream that an untouched specimen can surface out of nowhere 2 months after sell out.
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
Not to say that there will be anything wrong with it, but where do you think it could possibly come from, other than one of those 4 that were returned to inventory? Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up? Do you think it's a rejected credit card after 7 weeks, and that it never left the warehouse? Until now?
Of course it's a return! The $64,000 question is why anyone would return something like this to the Mint when they could easily make a few hundred dollars, at least, flipping it. Either they didn't know what they were doing (possible), or there is something wrong with it (more likely, but not guaranteed).
This is why, unless they suddenly release the missing 7500, I wouldn't mess around with these at 7:30 a.m., at $3600, expecting something I'd be happy with to become available out of nowhere after all this time.
Or could it be a media/show/promotional piece that they no longer need? Or maybe reserves they have set aside for returns that they no longer need? Where do you get the confidence to think you know everything all of the time? I need some of that.
I dunno. Some people have it and some people don't.
My understanding is that they do indeed overproduce in order to facilitate returns, but those coins are NOT placed on sale if not needed. The 12/23 report posted above indicates 4 came back. 2+2= one of those 4 finding its way into @MFezziwig's cart. Not a mysterious cache of reserve coins being released.
There you go ASSuming again. How do you know the 4 came back? Like previous post pointed out, it could be accounting fix. It's a reduction of 4 sales but does not mean they were returns.
Again, not saying anything is wrong with it. @jmlanzaf is correct about coins being inspected before being returned to inventory. But every coin they ship has been cleared for sale, and we all know lots of crap from the Mint finds its way into our mailboxes.
It doesn't have to just be a problem with the coin. Maybe the packaging got crushed? How are you so sure you always know everything?
He's wrong about undeliverable or refused items taking 6 weeks to find their way back to a warehouse. That takes a week or two, max. And I already allowed for the possibility, as opposed to probability, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the coin, and it was simply returned by someone who has no clue.
How do you just make blanket uneducated assertions like that? I've had coin shipments fall into a USPS black hole for weeks. Last month a tenant's rent check from a few miles away never showed up. Said he sent it, I was like yeah, right. But sure enough 3 weeks later it showed up with the postmark the tenant claimed in an envelope that was tattered and well worn.
Sorry for the confidence, but I am 100% sure, not even 99.99%, but 100%, that a Currently Unavailable coin purchased on January 1st that sold out in 4 minutes on November 14th is a return.
OK, whatever you say. Your track record can't get any worse at this point.
A media/show/promotional piece for an item sold out on November 14th would likely have been released a week or two after that. Or not at all. As opposed to on January 1st, a week after 4 were returned to the Mint. The sales report still shows 21 coins unaccounted for. Those are likely the floaters you are speculating about.
Or maybe the mint had a Christmas time Show and Tell with the members of Congress who controls their funding and authorizes their products? How are you so confident that you know all of the reasons they might need a display piece?
I wouldn't risk $3600 to try to make 10% on it, but, as with everything, YMMV. We are all free to dream that an untouched specimen can surface out of nowhere 2 months after sell out.
It's a slam dunk purchase, but OK. Whatever you say Mr. Hubris.
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
Not to say that there will be anything wrong with it, but where do you think it could possibly come from, other than one of those 4 that were returned to inventory? Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up? Do you think it's a rejected credit card after 7 weeks, and that it never left the warehouse? Until now?
Of course it's a return! The $64,000 question is why anyone would return something like this to the Mint when they could easily make a few hundred dollars, at least, flipping it. Either they didn't know what they were doing (possible), or there is something wrong with it (more likely, but not guaranteed).
This is why, unless they suddenly release the missing 7500, I wouldn't mess around with these at 7:30 a.m., at $3600, expecting something I'd be happy with to become available out of nowhere after all this time.
Or could it be a media/show/promotional piece that they no longer need? Or maybe reserves they have set aside for returns that they no longer need? Where do you get the confidence to think you know everything all of the time? I need some of that.
I dunno. Some people have it and some people don't.
My understanding is that they do indeed overproduce in order to facilitate returns, but those coins are NOT placed on sale if not needed. The 12/23 report posted above indicates 4 came back. 2+2= one of those 4 finding its way into @MFezziwig's cart. Not a mysterious cache of reserve coins being released.
Again, not saying anything is wrong with it. @jmlanzaf is correct about coins being inspected before being returned to inventory. But every coin they ship has been cleared for sale, and we all know lots of crap from the Mint finds its way into our mailboxes.
He's wrong about undeliverable or refused items taking 6 weeks to find their way back to a warehouse. That takes a week or two, max. And I already allowed for the possibility, as opposed to probability, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the coin, and it was simply returned by someone who has no clue.
Sorry for the confidence, but I am 100% sure, not even 99.99%, but 100%, that a Currently Unavailable coin purchased on January 1st that sold out in 4 minutes on November 14th is a return.
A media/show/promotional piece for an item sold out on November 14th would likely have been released a week or two after that. Or not at all. As opposed to on January 1st, a week after 4 were returned to the Mint. The sales report still shows 21 coins unaccounted for. Those are likely the floaters you are speculating about.
I wouldn't risk $3600 to try to make 10% on it, but, as with everything, YMMV. We are all free to dream that an untouched specimen can surface out of nowhere 2 months after sell out.
Lol. I'm wrong about it taking several weeks for a coin to be returned and inspected? It can take months for them to get to inspect the returns when they are busy. They don't go back on sale until they go back to the distributor, who then returns then to the Mint, who then inspects them, who then releases them back for sale
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
Not to say that there will be anything wrong with it, but where do you think it could possibly come from, other than one of those 4 that were returned to inventory? Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up? Do you think it's a rejected credit card after 7 weeks, and that it never left the warehouse? Until now?
Of course it's a return! The $64,000 question is why anyone would return something like this to the Mint when they could easily make a few hundred dollars, at least, flipping it. Either they didn't know what they were doing (possible), or there is something wrong with it (more likely, but not guaranteed).
This is why, unless they suddenly release the missing 7500, I wouldn't mess around with these at 7:30 a.m., at $3600, expecting something I'd be happy with to become available out of nowhere after all this time.
Or could it be a media/show/promotional piece that they no longer need? Or maybe reserves they have set aside for returns that they no longer need? Where do you get the confidence to think you know everything all of the time? I need some of that.
I dunno. Some people have it and some people don't.
My understanding is that they do indeed overproduce in order to facilitate returns, but those coins are NOT placed on sale if not needed. The 12/23 report posted above indicates 4 came back. 2+2= one of those 4 finding its way into @MFezziwig's cart. Not a mysterious cache of reserve coins being released.
Again, not saying anything is wrong with it. @jmlanzaf is correct about coins being inspected before being returned to inventory. But every coin they ship has been cleared for sale, and we all know lots of crap from the Mint finds its way into our mailboxes.
He's wrong about undeliverable or refused items taking 6 weeks to find their way back to a warehouse. That takes a week or two, max. And I already allowed for the possibility, as opposed to probability, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the coin, and it was simply returned by someone who has no clue.
Sorry for the confidence, but I am 100% sure, not even 99.99%, but 100%, that a Currently Unavailable coin purchased on January 1st that sold out in 4 minutes on November 14th is a return.
A media/show/promotional piece for an item sold out on November 14th would likely have been released a week or two after that. Or not at all. As opposed to on January 1st, a week after 4 were returned to the Mint. The sales report still shows 21 coins unaccounted for. Those are likely the floaters you are speculating about.
I wouldn't risk $3600 to try to make 10% on it, but, as with everything, YMMV. We are all free to dream that an untouched specimen can surface out of nowhere 2 months after sell out.
Lol. I'm wrong about it taking several weeks for a coin to be returned and inspected? It can take months for them to get inspect the returns when they are busy. They don't go back on sale until they go back to the distributor, who then returns then to the Mint, who then inspects them, who then releases them back for sale
Really? And you know this how? I VERY seriously doubt anything goes back to the Mint after it is delivered to a distribution center.
If I'm wrong, which Mint is handling inspections of individual coins? And just who at the Mint is doing that? Ventris, in her spare time? 🤣
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
Not to say that there will be anything wrong with it, but where do you think it could possibly come from, other than one of those 4 that were returned to inventory? Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up? Do you think it's a rejected credit card after 7 weeks, and that it never left the warehouse? Until now?
Of course it's a return! The $64,000 question is why anyone would return something like this to the Mint when they could easily make a few hundred dollars, at least, flipping it. Either they didn't know what they were doing (possible), or there is something wrong with it (more likely, but not guaranteed).
This is why, unless they suddenly release the missing 7500, I wouldn't mess around with these at 7:30 a.m., at $3600, expecting something I'd be happy with to become available out of nowhere after all this time.
Or could it be a media/show/promotional piece that they no longer need? Or maybe reserves they have set aside for returns that they no longer need? Where do you get the confidence to think you know everything all of the time? I need some of that.
I dunno. Some people have it and some people don't.
My understanding is that they do indeed overproduce in order to facilitate returns, but those coins are NOT placed on sale if not needed. The 12/23 report posted above indicates 4 came back. 2+2= one of those 4 finding its way into @MFezziwig's cart. Not a mysterious cache of reserve coins being released.
There you go ASSuming again. How do you know the 4 came back? Like previous post pointed out, it could be accounting fix. It's a reduction of 4 sales but does not mean they were returns.
Again, not saying anything is wrong with it. @jmlanzaf is correct about coins being inspected before being returned to inventory. But every coin they ship has been cleared for sale, and we all know lots of crap from the Mint finds its way into our mailboxes.
It doesn't have to just be a problem with the coin. Maybe the packaging got crushed? How are you so sure you always know everything?
He's wrong about undeliverable or refused items taking 6 weeks to find their way back to a warehouse. That takes a week or two, max. And I already allowed for the possibility, as opposed to probability, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the coin, and it was simply returned by someone who has no clue.
How do you just make blanket uneducated assertions like that? I've had coin shipments fall into a USPS black hole for weeks. Last month a tenant's rent check from a few miles away never showed up. Said he sent it, I was like yeah, right. But sure enough 3 weeks later it showed up with the postmark the tenant claimed in an envelope that was tattered and well worn.
Sorry for the confidence, but I am 100% sure, not even 99.99%, but 100%, that a Currently Unavailable coin purchased on January 1st that sold out in 4 minutes on November 14th is a return.
OK, whatever you say. Your track record can't get any worse at this point.
A media/show/promotional piece for an item sold out on November 14th would likely have been released a week or two after that. Or not at all. As opposed to on January 1st, a week after 4 were returned to the Mint. The sales report still shows 21 coins unaccounted for. Those are likely the floaters you are speculating about.
Or maybe the mint had a Christmas time Show and Tell with the members of Congress who controls their funding and authorizes their products? How are you so confident that you know all of the reasons they might need a display piece?
I wouldn't risk $3600 to try to make 10% on it, but, as with everything, YMMV. We are all free to dream that an untouched specimen can surface out of nowhere 2 months after sell out.
It's a slam dunk purchase, but OK. Whatever you say Mr. Hubris.
I know at least one came back because it was sold yesterday. 😀
I said from the beginning there might not be anything wrong with the coin. Just that it was unlikely, and that I wouldn't take the "guaranteed shot" with $3600 of my money. You do you. But no one in their right mind sends back a perfectly good $3600 coin worth $4K+ that will not be replaced because $10 worth of packaging was ruined. Maybe.
You're so anxious to jump down my throat that you are unable or unwilling to actually read and understand what I say.
Sure. Maybe, maybe, maybe a million different things. Absolutely feel free to dig deep for any possible theoretical possibility under the sun.
I'll take my track record and go with what seems obvious to me. You can feel free to discount my opinion entirely. Or even put me on Ignore.
I think maybe it's 100% a return. I'm entitled to my opinion. And to my certainty in expressing it. No matter how much it annoys you.
@NJCoin
" The sales report still shows 21 coins unaccounted for. Those are likely the floaters you are speculating about."
They are not floaters and never were imo. Expect that number(21)to increase as time goes on?.. Maybe I'm wrong, but....
Have you ever seen the final audited mintage of a coin? It is never the same number as the authorized mintage limit, always a lower number. Why? because there are always flawed, damaged, or otherwise unsellable coins that they hold back, no? Not to mention any coins that have been returned more than once. These unsellable coins are simply culled/destroyed/melted, never returning to that final count at the end.
"Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up?"..
No, he was feeling frisky and went into the back closet where the "missing 7500" are stashed and slipped it onto the "re-sell" shelf Lolol...
Now your missing coin count is down to 7499 pcs.!
¯_(ツ)_/¯
@Rc5280 said: @NJCoin
" The sales report still shows 21 coins unaccounted for. Those are likely the floaters you are speculating about."
They are not floaters and never were imo. Expect that number(21)to increase as time goes on?.. Maybe I'm wrong, but....
Have you ever seen the final audited mintage of a coin? It is never the same number as the authorized mintage limit, always a lower number. Why? because there are always flawed, damaged, or otherwise unsellable coins that they hold back, no? Not to mention any coins that have been returned more than once. These unsellable coins are simply culled/destroyed/melted, never returning to that final count at the end.
"Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up?"..
No, he was feeling frisky and went into the back closet where the "missing 7500" are stashed and slipped it onto the "re-sell" shelf Lolol...
Now your missing coin count is down to 7499 pcs.!
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah. I honestly don't know whether or not there are any "floaters." And I am fully aware that final sales are never exactly 100% of the authorized mintage.
My point was simply that I know they always make a few extra to replace damaged items (Although, once there is a sellout, I know they do not replace returned items -- I tried that once myself and was told I could have a refund, but not a replacement. I kept the coins), and that I seriously doubt a virgin coin that had never been shipped is what was sold on January 1st. I was simply offering an alternate explanation for "media/show/promotional pieces" by pointing out 21 coins were still unaccounted for, even after sales were reduced by 4 and at least one went out on January 1st.
My point was simply that I know they always make a few extra to replace damaged items
>
They only take so many orders and account for what they feel will fill all available coins. Years ago they used to allow more orders than product, and many would have orders canceled after the sellout (it was about 10%).
You may be confusing holding back coins for returns, to striking extras. They may not take enough orders for all coins, in case of returns.
Also, the sales report is only a sales report, it is not an inventory report. They have said this in the past. They will do a final audit and the numbers will change from what they list many times. Sometimes it doesn't. Only the mint knows why numbers change. In the past they have had to adjust by a thousand coins at one time, well after sales ended.
I hope they get the coin they were able to order, it is not showing sold-out so maybe they did place one up for sale. It also may not exist and they cancel. Let's wait to see before we declare victory, lol.
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
Not to say that there will be anything wrong with it, but where do you think it could possibly come from, other than one of those 4 that were returned to inventory? Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up? Do you think it's a rejected credit card after 7 weeks, and that it never left the warehouse? Until now?
Of course it's a return! The $64,000 question is why anyone would return something like this to the Mint when they could easily make a few hundred dollars, at least, flipping it. Either they didn't know what they were doing (possible), or there is something wrong with it (more likely, but not guaranteed).
This is why, unless they suddenly release the missing 7500, I wouldn't mess around with these at 7:30 a.m., at $3600, expecting something I'd be happy with to become available out of nowhere after all this time.
Or could it be a media/show/promotional piece that they no longer need? Or maybe reserves they have set aside for returns that they no longer need? Where do you get the confidence to think you know everything all of the time? I need some of that.
I dunno. Some people have it and some people don't.
My understanding is that they do indeed overproduce in order to facilitate returns, but those coins are NOT placed on sale if not needed. The 12/23 report posted above indicates 4 came back. 2+2= one of those 4 finding its way into @MFezziwig's cart. Not a mysterious cache of reserve coins being released.
Again, not saying anything is wrong with it. @jmlanzaf is correct about coins being inspected before being returned to inventory. But every coin they ship has been cleared for sale, and we all know lots of crap from the Mint finds its way into our mailboxes.
He's wrong about undeliverable or refused items taking 6 weeks to find their way back to a warehouse. That takes a week or two, max. And I already allowed for the possibility, as opposed to probability, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the coin, and it was simply returned by someone who has no clue.
Sorry for the confidence, but I am 100% sure, not even 99.99%, but 100%, that a Currently Unavailable coin purchased on January 1st that sold out in 4 minutes on November 14th is a return.
A media/show/promotional piece for an item sold out on November 14th would likely have been released a week or two after that. Or not at all. As opposed to on January 1st, a week after 4 were returned to the Mint. The sales report still shows 21 coins unaccounted for. Those are likely the floaters you are speculating about.
I wouldn't risk $3600 to try to make 10% on it, but, as with everything, YMMV. We are all free to dream that an untouched specimen can surface out of nowhere 2 months after sell out.
Lol. I'm wrong about it taking several weeks for a coin to be returned and inspected? It can take months for them to get inspect the returns when they are busy. They don't go back on sale until they go back to the distributor, who then returns then to the Mint, who then inspects them, who then releases them back for sale
Really? And you know this how? I VERY seriously doubt anything goes back to the Mint after it is delivered to a distribution center.
If I'm wrong, which Mint is handling inspections of individual coins? And just who at the Mint is doing that? Ventris, in her spare time? 🤣
So you're saying that the distribution center in Memphis has its own inspectors? They are also using 2 different distribution centers now. Do they each have their own inspector or do the inspectors travel all the time?
I'm fairly certain all inspections are at the Mint. They definitely were in 2017 when there was a picture posted here IIRC of the giant mountain of EU sets returned.
They have hundreds if not thousands of returns to deal with. Your assumption that they turn them around in a couple of days is unfounded at best. In 2017, it took them months to go through them.
I don't know why you're laughing at inspection at the Mint. That's where all the inspections are. Do you think they strike proof eagles and ship them all to Memphis to find out that they all need to be scrapped due to a faulty die? The inspectors are AT THE MINT. [And, no, i don't think Ventris is one of them.]
You do know that their fulfillment is contracted out. Why would coin inspectors be at a fulfillment center?
My point was simply that I know they always make a few extra to replace damaged items
>
They only take so many orders and account for what they feel will fill all available coins. Years ago they used to allow more orders than product, and many would have orders canceled after the sellout (it was about 10%).
You may be confusing holding back coins for returns, to striking extras. They may not take enough orders for all coins, in case of returns.
Also, the sales report is only a sales report, it is not an inventory report. They have said this in the past. They will do a final audit and the numbers will change from what they list many times. Sometimes it doesn't. Only the mint knows why numbers change. In the past they have had to adjust by a thousand coins at one time, well after sales ended.
I hope they get the coin they were able to order, it is not showing sold-out so maybe they did place one up for sale. It also may not exist and they cancel. Let's wait to see before we declare victory, lol.
No. They used to strike an overage. That led to them accidentally overselling the mintage limit one year (was it the baseball, I forget?) When someone accidentally put the overage up for sale.
They probably still strike an overage on some items. If a few get pulled in inspection, before or after returns, it is cost prohibitive to set up to strike just a couple coins.
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
Not to say that there will be anything wrong with it, but where do you think it could possibly come from, other than one of those 4 that were returned to inventory? Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up? Do you think it's a rejected credit card after 7 weeks, and that it never left the warehouse? Until now?
Of course it's a return! The $64,000 question is why anyone would return something like this to the Mint when they could easily make a few hundred dollars, at least, flipping it. Either they didn't know what they were doing (possible), or there is something wrong with it (more likely, but not guaranteed).
This is why, unless they suddenly release the missing 7500, I wouldn't mess around with these at 7:30 a.m., at $3600, expecting something I'd be happy with to become available out of nowhere after all this time.
Or could it be a media/show/promotional piece that they no longer need? Or maybe reserves they have set aside for returns that they no longer need? Where do you get the confidence to think you know everything all of the time? I need some of that.
I dunno. Some people have it and some people don't.
My understanding is that they do indeed overproduce in order to facilitate returns, but those coins are NOT placed on sale if not needed. The 12/23 report posted above indicates 4 came back. 2+2= one of those 4 finding its way into @MFezziwig's cart. Not a mysterious cache of reserve coins being released.
Again, not saying anything is wrong with it. @jmlanzaf is correct about coins being inspected before being returned to inventory. But every coin they ship has been cleared for sale, and we all know lots of crap from the Mint finds its way into our mailboxes.
He's wrong about undeliverable or refused items taking 6 weeks to find their way back to a warehouse. That takes a week or two, max. And I already allowed for the possibility, as opposed to probability, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the coin, and it was simply returned by someone who has no clue.
Sorry for the confidence, but I am 100% sure, not even 99.99%, but 100%, that a Currently Unavailable coin purchased on January 1st that sold out in 4 minutes on November 14th is a return.
A media/show/promotional piece for an item sold out on November 14th would likely have been released a week or two after that. Or not at all. As opposed to on January 1st, a week after 4 were returned to the Mint. The sales report still shows 21 coins unaccounted for. Those are likely the floaters you are speculating about.
I wouldn't risk $3600 to try to make 10% on it, but, as with everything, YMMV. We are all free to dream that an untouched specimen can surface out of nowhere 2 months after sell out.
Lol. I'm wrong about it taking several weeks for a coin to be returned and inspected? It can take months for them to get inspect the returns when they are busy. They don't go back on sale until they go back to the distributor, who then returns then to the Mint, who then inspects them, who then releases them back for sale
Really? And you know this how? I VERY seriously doubt anything goes back to the Mint after it is delivered to a distribution center.
If I'm wrong, which Mint is handling inspections of individual coins? And just who at the Mint is doing that? Ventris, in her spare time? 🤣
Some other background info on unsold products and sales data vs production anomalies:
Have you ever wondered what happens to United States Mint products when a particular item does not sell out? The Mint has processes in place for such an occurrence, but how the Mint deals with numismatic product inventory left over from closed-out programs depends on whether the items contain precious metals products.
When the U.S. Mint closes a program and products still remain in inventory, a process called “de-trashing” is used, according to Mint spokesman Michael White.
“Items identified for de-trashing are validated by the Department of Sales and Marketing (SAM) Product Management Branch Chief through the order management system and reconciled to the general ledger,” White said July 22. “The approved and validated list is then sent to the Accounting Division for review and approval. The Accounting Division reconciles the de-trashing list to the general ledger. Upon the Chief Financial Officer’s (CFO) approval, the list is forwarded to the Executive Steering Committee for final authorization to de-trash and melt the listed items.”
These specific steps in the physical de-trashing process for nonprecious metal products are taken, according to White:
A task order is issued, and the approved list is sent to the Fulfillment Center — the Mint’s contractor, Pitney-Bowes Government Solutions in Plainfield, Ind. — for the de-trash process to begin.
The Fulfillment Center physically moves the inventory to the designated de-trashing area. Products are transferred to raw materials inventory to indicate the correct value. De-trashing begins at this point.
Items are disassembled into their component parts by denomination or metal type. The Fulfillment Center generates a data sheet.
De-trashed items are placed in secured containers and labeled.
A United States Mint representative arranges the transfer by armored carrier of secured de-trashed items to a designated United States Mint facility.
United States Mint Police and staff witness the destruction, which is done with a coin destruction machine — manufactured by Kuster Engineering B.V., a Dutch firm — that “waffles” the coins, rendering then unusable as coins. The scrap metal is then sent back to the strip manufacturers for recycling. The U.S. Mint introduced the Kuster equipment in 2003.
The Mint follows a slightly different physical de-trashing process for precious metal products:
A task order is issued and the approved de-trash list is sent to the Fulfillment Center for the de-trash process to begin.
The Fulfillment Center physically moves the inventory to the designated de-trashing area. Products are transferred to raw materials inventory to indicate the correct value. De-trashing begins at this point.
Items are disassembled into their component parts by denomination or metal type. The Fulfillment Center generates a data sheet.
The Fulfillment Center sends SAM a final list of de-trashed items.
The appropriate United States Mint facility is sent the list of de-trashed items (San Francisco Mint for Proof silver coins; West Point for all other precious metals products).
The Fulfillment Center places de-trashed items in trays that are vacuum-sealed. These trays are placed into securely taped and labeled cardboard boxes that are then placed in wooden crates. The crates are sealed and recorded.
SAM arranges for an armored carrier to move the de-trashed products. Shipping authorization is approved, and shipping details are provided to the United States Mint Police, chief financial officer, plant manager and Fulfillment Center.
Precious metal coins (except the .900 fine silver Proof dime, quarter dollar and half dollar, which are sent to San Francisco), are returned to the West Point Mint, where the shipment count, and weight are verified before coins are shipped to contractors for melting. Personnel at the West Point facility coordinate all aspects of the melt with fabricators, arranging for shipment of the secured containers by armored carrier to the outside vendors that melt the coins, as witnessed by United States Mint Police and staff.
White said when it comes to the de-trashing of Silver Proof sets, the silver coins from prior year sets are removed from the packaging, placed into bins and are stored at the San Francisco Mint. The facility then schedules melts with vendors in which the coins are melted down and the silver is refined for future use, White said.
White explained, “Metal reclaimed by the United States Mint as a result of destruction or a program’s end is recorded on the balance sheet as a raw material inventory item. That inventory item would be carried at the same value as the similar existing inventory.
“The offset to the increase to inventory (known as the ‘credit’ side of the journal entry) would be against the expense of the program that ended, White said.
Coin World asked U.S. Mint officials why the Mint continues to offer coins struck and dated in previous years beyond the end of the calendar year, rather than destroying the leftover inventory at year’s end.
“This was done only at the end of 2008, when the United States Mint began auditing inventory to transition to our new fulfillment center [from PSF Web in Memphis, Tenn., to Pitney-Bowes Government Solutions],” White said. “At that time, it was determined that it would be more cost-effective to sell as much of that inventory as possible rather than de-trashing it.
“In addition, we have consistently used the term ‘Last Chance’ as a notification for products that are being discontinued.”
**If product is left over at the close of a program and destined for destruction, that material to be de-trashed is not reported as part of the “mintage,” according to White.
“The United States Mint only reports sales figures,” White said. “Even for products with pre-established maximum limits, we still report out only sales — coins that have been monetized through issuance — not production figures.”
White added, “Any product/program with remaining inventory at the end of the selling period (e.g., annual sets, commemoratives, etc.) goes through one of the standard de-trashing processes described above.”
The Mint does not publicly report the number of each coin destroyed nor the rejection rate as part of the overall production numbers. **
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
Not to say that there will be anything wrong with it, but where do you think it could possibly come from, other than one of those 4 that were returned to inventory? Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up? Do you think it's a rejected credit card after 7 weeks, and that it never left the warehouse? Until now?
Of course it's a return! The $64,000 question is why anyone would return something like this to the Mint when they could easily make a few hundred dollars, at least, flipping it. Either they didn't know what they were doing (possible), or there is something wrong with it (more likely, but not guaranteed).
This is why, unless they suddenly release the missing 7500, I wouldn't mess around with these at 7:30 a.m., at $3600, expecting something I'd be happy with to become available out of nowhere after all this time.
Or could it be a media/show/promotional piece that they no longer need? Or maybe reserves they have set aside for returns that they no longer need? Where do you get the confidence to think you know everything all of the time? I need some of that.
I dunno. Some people have it and some people don't.
My understanding is that they do indeed overproduce in order to facilitate returns, but those coins are NOT placed on sale if not needed. The 12/23 report posted above indicates 4 came back. 2+2= one of those 4 finding its way into @MFezziwig's cart. Not a mysterious cache of reserve coins being released.
Again, not saying anything is wrong with it. @jmlanzaf is correct about coins being inspected before being returned to inventory. But every coin they ship has been cleared for sale, and we all know lots of crap from the Mint finds its way into our mailboxes.
He's wrong about undeliverable or refused items taking 6 weeks to find their way back to a warehouse. That takes a week or two, max. And I already allowed for the possibility, as opposed to probability, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the coin, and it was simply returned by someone who has no clue.
Sorry for the confidence, but I am 100% sure, not even 99.99%, but 100%, that a Currently Unavailable coin purchased on January 1st that sold out in 4 minutes on November 14th is a return.
A media/show/promotional piece for an item sold out on November 14th would likely have been released a week or two after that. Or not at all. As opposed to on January 1st, a week after 4 were returned to the Mint. The sales report still shows 21 coins unaccounted for. Those are likely the floaters you are speculating about.
I wouldn't risk $3600 to try to make 10% on it, but, as with everything, YMMV. We are all free to dream that an untouched specimen can surface out of nowhere 2 months after sell out.
Lol. I'm wrong about it taking several weeks for a coin to be returned and inspected? It can take months for them to get inspect the returns when they are busy. They don't go back on sale until they go back to the distributor, who then returns then to the Mint, who then inspects them, who then releases them back for sale
Really? And you know this how? I VERY seriously doubt anything goes back to the Mint after it is delivered to a distribution center.
If I'm wrong, which Mint is handling inspections of individual coins? And just who at the Mint is doing that? Ventris, in her spare time? 🤣
So you're saying that the distribution center in Memphis has its own inspectors? They are also using 2 different distribution centers now. Do they each have their own inspector or do the inspectors travel all the time?
I'm fairly certain all inspections are at the Mint. They definitely were in 2017 when there was a picture posted here IIRC of the giant mountain of EU sets returned.
They have hundreds if not thousands of returns to deal with. Your assumption that they turn them around in a couple of days is unfounded at best. In 2017, it took them months to go through them.
I don't know why you're laughing at inspection at the Mint. That's where all the inspections are. Do you think they strike proof eagles and ship them all to Memphis to find out that they all need to be scrapped due to a faulty die? The inspectors are AT THE MINT. [And, no, i don't think Ventris is one of them.]
You do know that their fulfillment is contracted out. Why would coin inspectors be at a fulfillment center?
Yup. I'm saying a coin goes to where the Mint tells you to send it to, which is not HQ in DC or the mother ship in Philly. I'm further saying that there is someone there (a warehouse or distribution center) who processes a return, and then returns the coin to inventory if it's in saleable condition.
As inefficient as the government sometimes is, I cannot believe that the coin goes back to a distribution center, after which someone else somewhere else processes a refund, after which the coin is shipped somewhere else for inspection, after which the coin is returned to inventory and then returned to the distribution center for shipping once again.
You believe what you want. I have no first hand knowledge. Just the tiniest smidge of common sense.
Coin inspectors would be at a fulfillment center because they have already been cleared for takeoff at the Mint. This inspection is just looking for damage before returning a coin to inventory.
You are acting like literally hundreds of thousands or millions of coins are hand inspected at the Mint, like at a grading service. They are not.
If they were, a lot of the things people complain about would never make it into their hands. It's not hard for a lay person to see a big scratch on a coin.
OTOH, if it's a 68 instead of a 70, or there is some dust in the capsule, or even a fingerprint on the coin, it's going back on the shelf. You don't need a degree from Witter University to do the type of inspection they do. Either at the Mint or in a distribution center.
Good afternoon. I do have an update for all. The order status is now showing "shipped" (today) with a tracking number indicating "USPS awaiting item." For the past few days while the order was "processing" I kept imagining some worker wandering around a giant fulfillment warehouse saying "hey, do we still have one of these laying around here somewhere? " I'll report back once the coin has arrived. I am really happy to have the opportunity to own this special coin in any condition.
@MFezziwig said:
Hi Folks, new member here checking in. I just wanted to report to all that I was able to place an order for the 2024 Flowing Hair gold via the US mint website on January 1st. I was able to get the coin to "add to bag" about one week ago, and I had been dutifully logging in each morning at 07:30 EST, hitting "refresh" every 30 seconds or so. I was astonished when I was able to complete check out and got my order confirmation yesterday. For those that have been tracking the order numbers , mine is in the USM15009XXX range. My order is still showing as "processing" today, and I will keep you posted once I get a shipping confirmation. So there may still be hope for others , just keep trying. Please forgive the weird default avatar that was assigned to me (I did not pick that) I will change that as soon as I can. Happy New Year to all.
Mark
Congratulations!
Out of the 10,000 produced and sold you may be the most deserving with that kind of commitment. That is truly awesome.
I was also lucky enough to procure a coin on New Years day and was surprised that I was able to checkout. Even more thrilled that the status moved to shipped in the last 24 hours.
There are still more than 250! of these flowing hair golds on eBay starting as low as $4,500 in raw and 69 grades, and $5,200 in 70 grades. Of course, most listings are asking more, but at some point, many will have to lower their prices to sell.
I remain surprised at the silver privy medals which are selling for more than the gold in the $6,000-7,000 range. Yes, a lower mintage at 1,794 vs 10,000, but very strong pricing, and only around 40 are listed.
The 70 graded golds with privies that were listed in the $50,000 range on eBay from the US are all gone. They appear to have all been sold. The lonely 69 is still there at $42,500 OBO.
Comments
Exactly. Sometimes it is not greed but love. I have stuff i don't care about that I routinely sell on a 5 or 10% margin. On the other hand, there are other things that I like too much to just sell at such a low margin. Everything is for sale, but I'm far more motivated to sell some things than others.
I once bought a rare Irish coin in a SB auction and marked it up 100% because it was super cool. It sold in less than 2 weeks. I regretted not marking it up 200%. But it wasn't because I thought i could have made more money. It was because I would have liked to have it around longer.
Greysheet today:
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
"Greysheet today:"
Interesting development, but not terribly surprising.
Thanks for the update!
Hi Folks, new member here checking in. I just wanted to report to all that I was able to place an order for the 2024 Flowing Hair gold via the US mint website on January 1st. I was able to get the coin to "add to bag" about one week ago, and I had been dutifully logging in each morning at 07:30 EST, hitting "refresh" every 30 seconds or so. I was astonished when I was able to complete check out and got my order confirmation yesterday. For those that have been tracking the order numbers , mine is in the USM15009XXX range. My order is still showing as "processing" today, and I will keep you posted once I get a shipping confirmation. So there may still be hope for others , just keep trying. Please forgive the weird default avatar that was assigned to me (I did not pick that) I will change that as soon as I can. Happy New Year to all.
Mark
Now that is quite the first post, and yes, quite astonishing to say the least!!!!
Welcome aboard, Mark!!!!
@MFezziwig
Congrats!
I hope that you get it, I think they are winner coins!
On 12/23 the Mint reported -4 coins...⇊...
.
Does that mean that you're potential coin was a return/reject? No.
Please report back if it ships to you, and the condition that it is in.
Great work and commitment to get a "cheap" FHG!
Not to say that there will be anything wrong with it, but where do you think it could possibly come from, other than one of those 4 that were returned to inventory? Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up? Do you think it's a rejected credit card after 7 weeks, and that it never left the warehouse? Until now?
Of course it's a return! The $64,000 question is why anyone would return something like this to the Mint when they could easily make a few hundred dollars, at least, flipping it. Either they didn't know what they were doing (possible), or there is something wrong with it (more likely, but not guaranteed).
This is why, unless they suddenly release the missing 7500, I wouldn't mess around with these at 7:30 a.m., at $3600, expecting something I'd be happy with to become available out of nowhere after all this time.
There are other reasons for return ranging from bad addresses to refusal to be available for delivery when a signature is required. People sometimes also have buyer's remorse and don't know how to flip it.
The Mint does inspect returns before putting them back up for sale.
Or could it be a media/show/promotional piece that they no longer need? Or maybe reserves they have set aside for returns that they no longer need? Where do you get the confidence to think you know everything all of the time? I need some of that.
I know for a fact that the two Mint display FH Au coins at Baltimore Whitman Show were sold.
Here's day one(Nov 14th) while I was in line.
I came back on day two(Nov 15th)
The change in numbers could also be an accounting error that they have corrected, as they adjust for final numbers. Either way hopefully they get the coin that the order allowed. Their system once let us order coins very late and they canceled the orders. Until it ships anything can happen.
I dunno. Some people have it and some people don't.
My understanding is that they do indeed overproduce in order to facilitate returns, but those coins are NOT placed on sale if not needed. The 12/23 report posted above indicates 4 came back. 2+2= one of those 4 finding its way into @MFezziwig's cart. Not a mysterious cache of reserve coins being released.
Again, not saying anything is wrong with it. @jmlanzaf is correct about coins being inspected before being returned to inventory. But every coin they ship has been cleared for sale, and we all know lots of crap from the Mint finds its way into our mailboxes.
He's wrong about undeliverable or refused items taking 6 weeks to find their way back to a warehouse. That takes a week or two, max. And I already allowed for the possibility, as opposed to probability, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the coin, and it was simply returned by someone who has no clue.
Sorry for the confidence, but I am 100% sure, not even 99.99%, but 100%, that a Currently Unavailable coin purchased on January 1st that sold out in 4 minutes on November 14th is a return.
A media/show/promotional piece for an item sold out on November 14th would likely have been released a week or two after that. Or not at all. As opposed to on January 1st, a week after 4 were returned to the Mint. The sales report still shows 21 coins unaccounted for. Those are likely the floaters you are speculating about.
I wouldn't risk $3600 to try to make 10% on it, but, as with everything, YMMV. We are all free to dream that an untouched specimen can surface out of nowhere 2 months after sell out.
There you go ASSuming again. How do you know the 4 came back? Like previous post pointed out, it could be accounting fix. It's a reduction of 4 sales but does not mean they were returns.
It doesn't have to just be a problem with the coin. Maybe the packaging got crushed? How are you so sure you always know everything?
How do you just make blanket uneducated assertions like that? I've had coin shipments fall into a USPS black hole for weeks. Last month a tenant's rent check from a few miles away never showed up. Said he sent it, I was like yeah, right. But sure enough 3 weeks later it showed up with the postmark the tenant claimed in an envelope that was tattered and well worn.
OK, whatever you say. Your track record can't get any worse at this point.
Or maybe the mint had a Christmas time Show and Tell with the members of Congress who controls their funding and authorizes their products? How are you so confident that you know all of the reasons they might need a display piece?
It's a slam dunk purchase, but OK. Whatever you say Mr. Hubris.
Lol. I'm wrong about it taking several weeks for a coin to be returned and inspected? It can take months for them to get to inspect the returns when they are busy. They don't go back on sale until they go back to the distributor, who then returns then to the Mint, who then inspects them, who then releases them back for sale
Really? And you know this how? I VERY seriously doubt anything goes back to the Mint after it is delivered to a distribution center.
If I'm wrong, which Mint is handling inspections of individual coins? And just who at the Mint is doing that? Ventris, in her spare time? 🤣
I know at least one came back because it was sold yesterday. 😀
I said from the beginning there might not be anything wrong with the coin. Just that it was unlikely, and that I wouldn't take the "guaranteed shot" with $3600 of my money. You do you. But no one in their right mind sends back a perfectly good $3600 coin worth $4K+ that will not be replaced because $10 worth of packaging was ruined. Maybe.
You're so anxious to jump down my throat that you are unable or unwilling to actually read and understand what I say.
Sure. Maybe, maybe, maybe a million different things. Absolutely feel free to dig deep for any possible theoretical possibility under the sun.
I'll take my track record and go with what seems obvious to me. You can feel free to discount my opinion entirely. Or even put me on Ignore.
I think maybe it's 100% a return. I'm entitled to my opinion. And to my certainty in expressing it. No matter how much it annoys you.
@NJCoin
" The sales report still shows 21 coins unaccounted for. Those are likely the floaters you are speculating about."
They are not floaters and never were imo. Expect that number(21)to increase as time goes on?.. Maybe I'm wrong, but....
Have you ever seen the final audited mintage of a coin? It is never the same number as the authorized mintage limit, always a lower number. Why? because there are always flawed, damaged, or otherwise unsellable coins that they hold back, no? Not to mention any coins that have been returned more than once. These unsellable coins are simply culled/destroyed/melted, never returning to that final count at the end.
"Do you think a janitor in the warehouse stumbled across it while cleaning up?"..
No, he was feeling frisky and went into the back closet where the "missing 7500" are stashed and slipped it onto the "re-sell" shelf Lolol...
Now your missing coin count is down to 7499 pcs.!
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah. I honestly don't know whether or not there are any "floaters." And I am fully aware that final sales are never exactly 100% of the authorized mintage.
My point was simply that I know they always make a few extra to replace damaged items (Although, once there is a sellout, I know they do not replace returned items -- I tried that once myself and was told I could have a refund, but not a replacement. I kept the coins), and that I seriously doubt a virgin coin that had never been shipped is what was sold on January 1st. I was simply offering an alternate explanation for "media/show/promotional pieces" by pointing out 21 coins were still unaccounted for, even after sales were reduced by 4 and at least one went out on January 1st.
>
They only take so many orders and account for what they feel will fill all available coins. Years ago they used to allow more orders than product, and many would have orders canceled after the sellout (it was about 10%).
You may be confusing holding back coins for returns, to striking extras. They may not take enough orders for all coins, in case of returns.
Also, the sales report is only a sales report, it is not an inventory report. They have said this in the past. They will do a final audit and the numbers will change from what they list many times. Sometimes it doesn't. Only the mint knows why numbers change. In the past they have had to adjust by a thousand coins at one time, well after sales ended.
I hope they get the coin they were able to order, it is not showing sold-out so maybe they did place one up for sale. It also may not exist and they cancel. Let's wait to see before we declare victory, lol.
So you're saying that the distribution center in Memphis has its own inspectors? They are also using 2 different distribution centers now. Do they each have their own inspector or do the inspectors travel all the time?
I'm fairly certain all inspections are at the Mint. They definitely were in 2017 when there was a picture posted here IIRC of the giant mountain of EU sets returned.
They have hundreds if not thousands of returns to deal with. Your assumption that they turn them around in a couple of days is unfounded at best. In 2017, it took them months to go through them.
I don't know why you're laughing at inspection at the Mint. That's where all the inspections are. Do you think they strike proof eagles and ship them all to Memphis to find out that they all need to be scrapped due to a faulty die? The inspectors are AT THE MINT. [And, no, i don't think Ventris is one of them.]
You do know that their fulfillment is contracted out. Why would coin inspectors be at a fulfillment center?
No. They used to strike an overage. That led to them accidentally overselling the mintage limit one year (was it the baseball, I forget?) When someone accidentally put the overage up for sale.
They probably still strike an overage on some items. If a few get pulled in inspection, before or after returns, it is cost prohibitive to set up to strike just a couple coins.
https://www.usmint.gov/learn/production-process/coin-production?srsltid=AfmBOoq14zlJ_b8ItRTPkcTzhKwIpXkRBFNBmESs40X7LSvHH42J4vfa
Some other background info on unsold products and sales data vs production anomalies:
Have you ever wondered what happens to United States Mint products when a particular item does not sell out? The Mint has processes in place for such an occurrence, but how the Mint deals with numismatic product inventory left over from closed-out programs depends on whether the items contain precious metals products.
When the U.S. Mint closes a program and products still remain in inventory, a process called “de-trashing” is used, according to Mint spokesman Michael White.
“Items identified for de-trashing are validated by the Department of Sales and Marketing (SAM) Product Management Branch Chief through the order management system and reconciled to the general ledger,” White said July 22. “The approved and validated list is then sent to the Accounting Division for review and approval. The Accounting Division reconciles the de-trashing list to the general ledger. Upon the Chief Financial Officer’s (CFO) approval, the list is forwarded to the Executive Steering Committee for final authorization to de-trash and melt the listed items.”
These specific steps in the physical de-trashing process for nonprecious metal products are taken, according to White:
A task order is issued, and the approved list is sent to the Fulfillment Center — the Mint’s contractor, Pitney-Bowes Government Solutions in Plainfield, Ind. — for the de-trash process to begin.
The Fulfillment Center physically moves the inventory to the designated de-trashing area. Products are transferred to raw materials inventory to indicate the correct value. De-trashing begins at this point.
Items are disassembled into their component parts by denomination or metal type. The Fulfillment Center generates a data sheet.
De-trashed items are placed in secured containers and labeled.
A United States Mint representative arranges the transfer by armored carrier of secured de-trashed items to a designated United States Mint facility.
United States Mint Police and staff witness the destruction, which is done with a coin destruction machine — manufactured by Kuster Engineering B.V., a Dutch firm — that “waffles” the coins, rendering then unusable as coins. The scrap metal is then sent back to the strip manufacturers for recycling. The U.S. Mint introduced the Kuster equipment in 2003.
The Mint follows a slightly different physical de-trashing process for precious metal products:
A task order is issued and the approved de-trash list is sent to the Fulfillment Center for the de-trash process to begin.
The Fulfillment Center physically moves the inventory to the designated de-trashing area. Products are transferred to raw materials inventory to indicate the correct value. De-trashing begins at this point.
Items are disassembled into their component parts by denomination or metal type. The Fulfillment Center generates a data sheet.
The Fulfillment Center sends SAM a final list of de-trashed items.
The appropriate United States Mint facility is sent the list of de-trashed items (San Francisco Mint for Proof silver coins; West Point for all other precious metals products).
The Fulfillment Center places de-trashed items in trays that are vacuum-sealed. These trays are placed into securely taped and labeled cardboard boxes that are then placed in wooden crates. The crates are sealed and recorded.
SAM arranges for an armored carrier to move the de-trashed products. Shipping authorization is approved, and shipping details are provided to the United States Mint Police, chief financial officer, plant manager and Fulfillment Center.
Precious metal coins (except the .900 fine silver Proof dime, quarter dollar and half dollar, which are sent to San Francisco), are returned to the West Point Mint, where the shipment count, and weight are verified before coins are shipped to contractors for melting. Personnel at the West Point facility coordinate all aspects of the melt with fabricators, arranging for shipment of the secured containers by armored carrier to the outside vendors that melt the coins, as witnessed by United States Mint Police and staff.
White said when it comes to the de-trashing of Silver Proof sets, the silver coins from prior year sets are removed from the packaging, placed into bins and are stored at the San Francisco Mint. The facility then schedules melts with vendors in which the coins are melted down and the silver is refined for future use, White said.
White explained, “Metal reclaimed by the United States Mint as a result of destruction or a program’s end is recorded on the balance sheet as a raw material inventory item. That inventory item would be carried at the same value as the similar existing inventory.
“The offset to the increase to inventory (known as the ‘credit’ side of the journal entry) would be against the expense of the program that ended, White said.
Coin World asked U.S. Mint officials why the Mint continues to offer coins struck and dated in previous years beyond the end of the calendar year, rather than destroying the leftover inventory at year’s end.
“This was done only at the end of 2008, when the United States Mint began auditing inventory to transition to our new fulfillment center [from PSF Web in Memphis, Tenn., to Pitney-Bowes Government Solutions],” White said. “At that time, it was determined that it would be more cost-effective to sell as much of that inventory as possible rather than de-trashing it.
“In addition, we have consistently used the term ‘Last Chance’ as a notification for products that are being discontinued.”
**If product is left over at the close of a program and destined for destruction, that material to be de-trashed is not reported as part of the “mintage,” according to White.
“The United States Mint only reports sales figures,” White said. “Even for products with pre-established maximum limits, we still report out only sales — coins that have been monetized through issuance — not production figures.”
White added, “Any product/program with remaining inventory at the end of the selling period (e.g., annual sets, commemoratives, etc.) goes through one of the standard de-trashing processes described above.”
The Mint does not publicly report the number of each coin destroyed nor the rejection rate as part of the overall production numbers. **
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Yup. I'm saying a coin goes to where the Mint tells you to send it to, which is not HQ in DC or the mother ship in Philly. I'm further saying that there is someone there (a warehouse or distribution center) who processes a return, and then returns the coin to inventory if it's in saleable condition.
As inefficient as the government sometimes is, I cannot believe that the coin goes back to a distribution center, after which someone else somewhere else processes a refund, after which the coin is shipped somewhere else for inspection, after which the coin is returned to inventory and then returned to the distribution center for shipping once again.
You believe what you want. I have no first hand knowledge. Just the tiniest smidge of common sense.
Coin inspectors would be at a fulfillment center because they have already been cleared for takeoff at the Mint. This inspection is just looking for damage before returning a coin to inventory.
You are acting like literally hundreds of thousands or millions of coins are hand inspected at the Mint, like at a grading service. They are not.
If they were, a lot of the things people complain about would never make it into their hands. It's not hard for a lay person to see a big scratch on a coin.
OTOH, if it's a 68 instead of a 70, or there is some dust in the capsule, or even a fingerprint on the coin, it's going back on the shelf. You don't need a degree from Witter University to do the type of inspection they do. Either at the Mint or in a distribution center.
Good afternoon. I do have an update for all. The order status is now showing "shipped" (today) with a tracking number indicating "USPS awaiting item." For the past few days while the order was "processing" I kept imagining some worker wandering around a giant fulfillment warehouse saying "hey, do we still have one of these laying around here somewhere? " I'll report back once the coin has arrived. I am really happy to have the opportunity to own this special coin in any condition.
"I kept imagining some worker wandering around a giant fulfillment warehouse saying "hey, do we still have one of these laying around here somewhere?"
It was that janitor that snuck into the "back room" where the "missing" 7500 coins are stashed lol...
Keep us posted, congratulations!
Congratulations!
Out of the 10,000 produced and sold you may be the most deserving with that kind of commitment. That is truly awesome.
I was able to place an order for the 2024 Flowing Hair gold via the US mint website on January 1st.
Excellent!!! Your due diligence paid off!!!!! Great job Mark~
I was also lucky enough to procure a coin on New Years day and was surprised that I was able to checkout. Even more thrilled that the status moved to shipped in the last 24 hours.
I wonder if they are completely gone now...
There are still more than 250! of these flowing hair golds on eBay starting as low as $4,500 in raw and 69 grades, and $5,200 in 70 grades. Of course, most listings are asking more, but at some point, many will have to lower their prices to sell.
I remain surprised at the silver privy medals which are selling for more than the gold in the $6,000-7,000 range. Yes, a lower mintage at 1,794 vs 10,000, but very strong pricing, and only around 40 are listed.
The 70 graded golds with privies that were listed in the $50,000 range on eBay from the US are all gone. They appear to have all been sold. The lonely 69 is still there at $42,500 OBO.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set