I don't think they will do another flowing hair so that it remains special. The Mint Director indicated they were going to do a couple more special coins for the 250th anniversary, and this FH was the first one of a historical series.
My guess is a real winner would be to do one of these in silver, maybe around 100,000-200,000, and then do 1,776 in gold, platinum, or palladium to maintain a higher priced manufactured rarity status like the FH gold.
A palladium would sort of look like pewter. And please don't put a 250 privy on it.
@Goldminers said:
I don't think they will do another flowing hair so that it remains special. The Mint Director indicated they were going to do a couple more special coins for the 250th anniversary, and this FH was the first one of a historical series.
My guess is a real winner would be to do one of these in silver, maybe around 100,000-200,000, and then do 1,776 in gold, platinum, or palladium to maintain a higher priced manufactured rarity status like the FH gold.
A palladium would sort of look like pewter. And please don't put a 250 privy on it.
She probably said that in that in a you tube video I have been meaning to watch. Your suggestions work. 1776 mintage, great idea. Maybe a draped bust dollar. No privies, agreed.
Can you help a fellow eBay seller out folks?
He's not asking too much.
eBay seller druzski "Just looking to get my money back after grading and fees."
Remember his coin comes in "NGC scratch resistant holder."
And then this.........."This listing was ended by the seller on Mon, Dec 23 at 5:33 AM because there was an error in the listing."
@Rc5280 said:
1) You butt in line on day one(minute) and shut out a potential collector who really wanted one of those FHG at Mint price.
2) You Post blurry photos.
3) You Post a coin upside down.
@Goldbully
I don't think so, didn't happen. He also had $60 & 50k pre-sales going on back then and took them down. He was/is looking for some attention and interest in his other items, which were reasonable(when I was looking at his scam FH Privy sales)...
I'm not moderating. I'm expressing an opinion about your opinion. There is no reason to use obscenities and hurl an insult at anyone, especially someone simply selling a coin on eBay.
For all you knew, they had intended to keep it but need the money to pay their child's medical bills. It was uncalled for. I didn't tell you that you couldn't say it. I didn't report it to the actual moderators, although I could have. I simply said that it was unnecessary... and we could add unkind, if you like.
@Goldbully said:
Wait what? "230th Anniversary of the 1794 Flowing Hair $1 with Privy Mark & Hand Signed COA" PCGS graded PR69DCAM sold for $16,666.67!!!
Why is there no PCGS certification# or SB auction#??
Because it was a presale from before the actual auction. Since they didn't have a coin in hand, they couldn't post a certification #.
I think I recognize the seller as someone who made some sketchy posts on our forum. I might be wrong about that, but I'm probably not wrong about anyone not taking a ~$10K loss on an eBay presale. Which is why it is foolish to get involved with them unless it is with a reputable established seller.
TLDR -- no way anyone will actually be receiving what they paid for next February or March. Presumably eBay will at least ensure they get their money back, but that's the problem with presales on items like this.
They are nothing more than "heads I win, tails you lose" games where the seller is always the one flipping the coin. Had @coiner turned out to be correct, the buyer would be the proud owner at 2x+ the actual value.
Instead, the buyer just made an interest free loan to the seller, until eBay pulls the money back after the coin is not delivered. Unless the whole thing is fiction. But it would not be shocking for someone to have actually bit at that price, given where whey ended up selling for at the auction.
"I'm not moderating"
You also don't spell/grammar/fact check others as well? Got it.
He appeared to have zero intention of keeping it, given his lame description about grading fees and his random selling feedback. Good for him and the multitude of flippers, but bummer for the hundreds of people who wanted the coin to keep, if given the opportunity to buy one from the USM in the first place. Maybe the USM could've "authorized" the full "mintage limit" to be struck? Oh what could've been!?
You gave him the benefit of doubt and I can surely appreciate that. At this time, given the circumstances surrounding the release of the coin, I could not give him that benefit.
Thanks again.
@Rc5280 said:
1) You butt in line on day one(minute) and shut out a potential collector who really wanted one of those FHG at Mint price.
2) You Post blurry photos.
3) You Post a coin upside down.
Thank you too. I don't know, maybe triggered by the poor effort with his listing?
I also hear too many complaints from people that got shut out within 2 min. It gets old...
I'm feeling much better now.
@Rc5280 said:
"I'm not moderating"
You also don't spell/grammar/fact check others as well? Got it.
He appeared to have zero intention of keeping it, given his lame description about grading fees and his random selling feedback. Good for him and the multitude of flippers, but bummer for the hundreds of people who wanted the coin to keep, if given the opportunity to buy one from the USM in the first place. Maybe the USM could've "authorized" the full "mintage limit" to be struck? Oh what could've been!?
You gave him the benefit of doubt and I can surely appreciate that. At this time, given the circumstances surrounding the release of the coin, I could not give him that benefit.
Thanks again.
Actually, I rarely spell check or grammar check because I don't proofread my own posts that carefully. We ALL fact check. Why would we not challenge misinformation in our hobby?
,I enjoy reading the speculations you guys provide. Thanks for writing them. They don’t have to be accurate right away, or ever. The spectrum of opinion is wide.
@Creg said:
,I enjoy reading the speculations you guys provide. Thanks for writing them. They don’t have to be accurate right away, or ever. The spectrum of opinion is wide.
Don't encourage them. They are now fighting over what the price will be in 2 years. That's 10,000 posts from now.
@NJCoin said:
And people have not lost interest in the V75 since it was released in 2020. In spite of the fact that another "rare widget" was released two weeks ago.
For those of us who entered the debate late....what has happened to the pricing for the PR70DCAM for that V75 coin since it 1st came out and now over the last 4 years ?
If they do go down in the future, not in a few months, but in years, it will be because they lost value. They will not >be bargains at lower prices, and they will always hold a very significant premium over intrinsic value.
NJ, I'm a bit confused (probably my fault) on where you stand. You DON'T think the FH coins should have sold where they are now trading....you thought that was too high, right ?.....but you see that price as "sticky to the downside" and NOT likely to fall alot either via a crash or a slow steady decline ? Is that correct ?
I would have thought from your earlier posts that while you might not expect a CRASH (i.e., an 80-90% decline) that you still thought a steep decline was possible/likely (i.e., 30-50%).
@NJCoin said:
And people have not lost interest in the V75 since it was released in 2020. In spite of the fact that another "rare widget" was released two weeks ago.
For those of us who entered the debate late....what has happened to the pricing for the PR70DCAM for that V75 coin since it 1st came out and now over the last 4 years ?
If they do go down in the future, not in a few months, but in years, it will be because they lost value. They will not >be bargains at lower prices, and they will always hold a very significant premium over intrinsic value.
NJ, I'm a bit confused (probably my fault) on where you stand. You DON'T think the FH coins should have sold where they are now trading....you thought that was too high, right ?.....but you see that price as "sticky to the downside" and NOT likely to fall alot either via a crash or a slow steady decline ? Is that correct ?
I would have thought from your earlier posts that while you might not expect a CRASH (i.e., an 80-90% decline) that you still thought a steep decline was possible/likely (i.e., 30-50%).
V75s started at around $8-10K when they were released. They basically went up 2-3x from there in the following months, and have stayed there the past 3+ years.
Not sure about 70s vs. 69s vs. raw. But, in general, there was a huge pop from the ~$2K issue price for those lucky enough to get one to around $8-10K, and then steady movement up from there, until 70s are now $20K+. There aren't a ton of them, so they don't trade often. I see a 69 sold on eBay a few weeks ago for $14K.
With respect to the FH gold privys, I was in a tiny minority that called the price almost exactly, and from the moment the auction was announced in the beginning of November. The source of your confusion stems from the fact that my position was always that they would sell for full retail at auction, which they did, and that there would be no flip from there, as there does not appear to be.
So, yeah, the price is the price. There are only 230 of them, so there should be support at prices similar to where 230 sold all at once in around 3 hours. No reason for anyone to chase them up from there, since anyone who might otherwise do so had a one month notice with respect to where to find them before the sale.
Similarly, anyone buying them for a flip, at the prices they ended up hammering for, was nuts. I doubt many did. They either went to collectors, or to dealers who had collectors lined up to take them. Unreasonable to think dozens, or even 100+, are sitting in dealers' inventories, and will be dumped in a fire sale in the near future, as @coiner seems to think is inevitable.
Years from now, anything is possible, so I never made any prediction with respect to that. THAT will depend on the future market for modern Mint artificial rarities.
It has held up so far for the V75, but no one really knows. @coiner thinks the V75 is special, because it's part of the AGE series, and that this is nothing more than another modern commemorative.
Not true. Modern commemorative and First Spouse coins are dead because no one cares about them, regardless of how low the mintages go. V75s are different, as are AGEs, ASEs, Morgan and Peace Dollars, etc. Not because they are part of series, but because they contain beloved, classic designs.
The FH gold coins and silver medals more closely resemble them than First Spouse coins. There IS intense interest in them. They sold out either immediately, or as soon as HHLs were lifted, and sell on the secondary market for premiums to Mint issue prices. They are going to be part of a series containing other classic designs in the Best of the Mint series to commemorate the 250th anniversary of the country in 2026.
Again, TBD whether there is long term interest in tiny privy mark subsets of anything. So far, all we have is the V75, and it has done well. These are priced similarly out of the box, so no reason to predict large movement either way in the near to intermediate future. Certainly not a crash because no one cares about the Harriett Tubman coins, or even the First Spouse liberty head coins.
What I always said is that 230 of these should be priced at at least the level of 1945 V75s, if not more. @coiner vehemently disagreed, due to the V75s being part of a popular series.
FH gold privys going for 50%+ more than V75s certainly vindicated my position out of the box. If they go down 30-50% in the future (and they very well might), it will be because people lost interest in low mintage privy coins, and the V75s will go down right along with them.
Not because a critical mass of collectors woke up from their slumber one day, suddenly realized @coiner has been right all along, and that FH gold privy coins are hot garbage whereas V75s are not, because they are not part of an annual series, and dump them for whatever they can get.
I wanted to participate in buying a classic design from the Mint, but was shut out within minutes. It's highly unlikely that I'll ever decide to buy one on the secondary market, especially since the Mint decided to backtrack on their own published mintage hype.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said:
I wanted to participate in buying a classic design from the Mint, but was shut out within minutes. It's highly unlikely that I'll ever decide to buy one on the secondary market, especially since the Mint decided to backtrack on their own published mintage hype.
Agree. Not interested in fighting the conspiracies, just that the Mint should have made more and stuck to their original numbers. Very lucky to get one. Don't care much if it appreciates or depreciates; collectors wanted them and no excuse because those numbers should have been met for others to increase their chances on release day.
@jmski52 said:
I wanted to participate in buying a classic design from the Mint, but was shut out within minutes. It's highly unlikely that I'll ever decide to buy one on the secondary market, especially since the Mint decided to backtrack on their own published mintage hype.
Agree. Not interested in fighting the conspiracies, just that the Mint should have made more and stuck to their original numbers. Very lucky to get one. Don't care much if it appreciates or depreciates; collectors wanted them and no excuse because those numbers should have been met for others to increase their chances on release day.
@VanHalen said:
Really like your display case. I like your coin even better. She's a beauty.
I have some of them, I believe Wizard has them, maybe some other online places, too.
Sorry Van Halen, missed that. Yes, there are very nice with actual glass. Worth it.
I totally agree with you, and it will absolutely suck if the missing coins and medals never see the light of day, for no particular reason when there is clearly demand.
OTOH, and it's not a conspiracy theory, just an inexcusable lack of transparency and communication, but, if I am right, the missing items will manifest at some point in 2026 as part of a set with other related items issued that year.
If that does happen, it will do nothing for the value of the FH items released in 2024, so those who missed out might get a second chance. Stay tuned.
Hammer at $6,000 with almost 6 hours to go. I can't find a completed listing for a PCGS "Baltimore 70". NGC & CACG pieces have been $5,500 to $7,500 on eBay.
Hammer at $6,000 with almost 6 hours to go. I can't find a completed listing for a PCGS "Baltimore 70". NGC & CACG pieces have been $5,500 to $7,500 on eBay.
Edit: Check that, some sales went close to $10k!
Hammer would actually be $6600. Not including credit card fees, which don't go to either the house or the consignor.
Hammer is what the buyer pays, not what the seller nets. As always, the consignor pays selling costs, whether or not they realize it. No such thing as no seller fee, unless the house is running the auction for free.
With 5 hours to go, it's probably fair to assume it will exceed eBay pricing. If not, the seller probably made a mistake giving it to GC.
"Hammer is what the buyer pays, not what the seller nets. As always, the consignor pays selling costs, whether or not they realize it. No such thing as no seller fee, unless the house is running the auction for free."
If we're talking about standard auctions, then that is incorrect. Hammer is the final bid price before the juice and other fees are added. We can only be certain what the buyer is paying, seller arrangements could vary depending on status , volume, and venue.
Listing Fees: GreatCollections listing fees are based on the following schedule and are charged
the first time the coin is listed:
Minimum Bid $1-$99 $100-$999 $1,000 and up
Listing Fee $3 $5 $10
Seller’s Fees: Our Seller’s fees are a low 5% for coins up to $1,000 and 0% for coins over
$1,000.
That's really just semantics. Compare that to DLRC, and then DLRC to heritage. You know what they all have in common? The consignor, in one way or another, is the one who eats the premium.
I haven't consigned with them--yet, as I've only been a purchaser at GC..
A $3 fee for a $.99 starting bid for a $1001 coin is a "premium" that I can handle all day long!
What am I missing here?(besides shipping it to them, highlight page, etc.)
That's really just semantics. Compare that to DLRC, and then DLRC to heritage. You know what they all have in common? The consignor, in one way or another, is the one who eats the premium.
I haven't consigned with them--yet, as I've only been a purchaser at GC..
A $3 fee for a $.99 starting bid for a $1001 coin is a "premium" that I can handle all day long!
What am I missing here?(besides shipping it to them, highlight page, etc.)
Ian?
Sorry, I misunderstood and thought you were making a counterpoint to what I said. Im not firing on all cylinders today, carry on.
@PeakRarities said:
"Hammer is what the buyer pays, not what the seller nets. As always, the consignor pays selling costs, whether or not they realize it. No such thing as no seller fee, unless the house is running the auction for free."
If we're talking about standard auctions, then that is incorrect. Hammer is the final bid price before the juice and other fees are added. We can only be certain what the buyer is paying, seller arrangements could vary depending on status , volume, and venue.
Oops. I thought hammer included the juice, since that is set in stone, and is actually what buyers pay. I knew seller arrangements varied. But, again, no seller fee does not mean no seller fee, unless a buyer does not add buyer fees to a bid in determining where to stop bidding.
@PeakRarities said:
"Hammer is what the buyer pays, not what the seller nets. As always, the consignor pays selling costs, whether or not they realize it. No such thing as no seller fee, unless the house is running the auction for free."
If we're talking about standard auctions, then that is incorrect. Hammer is the final bid price before the juice and other fees are added. We can only be certain what the buyer is paying, seller arrangements could vary depending on status , volume, and venue.
Oops. I thought hammer included the juice, since that is set in stone, and is actually what buyers pay. I knew seller arrangements varied. But, again, no seller fee does not mean no seller fee, unless a buyer does not add buyer fees to a bid in determining where to stop bidding.
I agree, and that was the point I thought I was defending in my comment above. No matter what phrasing is used, the seller/consignor of the coins is the one buttering the biscuit.
‘’Hammer at $6,000 with almost 6 hours to go. I can't find a completed listing for a PCGS "Baltimore 70". NGC & CACG pieces have been $5,500 to $7,500 on eBay.
Edit: Check that, some sales went close to $10k!’’
There has been Baltimore coins on eBay offered as little as $8,950 (or best offer) for literally weeks now with absolutely no visible activity. Period, end.
Those are the facts. Not the misinformation, followed by the silly opinions based on the misinformation, we read here (and have seen for about 41 pages of this thread thus far).
Good job GC (and PCGS!) on adding a few thousand dollars to this coin (thus far with 3 hours to go) for the word “Baltimore” on the insert (coin at $7k+ now with BP)!
Wondercoin.
P.S. There was a 3rd Baltimore FDI coin offered a bit higher than the other two coins under $9,000, and that seller raised their price even higher after discussion here that pop was only 10 (that then moved to 11). No action on that coin either obviously.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
‘’I came back to the show on Day 2 to submit to PCGS, so I settled for First Strike.
If I had submitted the coin on Day 1 after standing in line for over 2 hours, the Population would have been 11, I suppose. ☺️’’
That may (or may not) have been an expensive lesson. We will see.
@wondercoin said:
‘’I came back to the show on Day 2 to submit to PCGS, so I settled for First Strike.
If I had submitted the coin on Day 1 after standing in line for over 2 hours, the Population would have been 11, I suppose. ☺️’’
That may (or may not) have been an expensive lesson. We will see.
@VanHalen said:
Hammer at $6,000 with almost 6 hours to go. I can't find a completed listing for a PCGS "Baltimore 70". NGC & >CACG pieces have been $5,500 to $7,500 on eBay.
@VanHalen said:
Hammer at $6,000 with almost 6 hours to go. I can't find a completed listing for a PCGS "Baltimore 70". NGC & >CACG pieces have been $5,500 to $7,500 on eBay.
$7,000 including bp with 3 hours to go.
PCGS Pop Report shows 11 total pieces graded with the Baltimore FDOI label. All 11 are 70s. Most pieces from Baltimore must have gone elsewhere.
@VanHalen said:
Hammer at $6,000 with almost 6 hours to go. I can't find a completed listing for a PCGS "Baltimore 70". NGC & >CACG pieces have been $5,500 to $7,500 on eBay.
$7,000 including bp with 3 hours to go.
PCGS Pop Report shows 11 total pieces graded with the Baltimore FDOI label. All 11 are 70s. Most pieces from Baltimore must have gone elsewhere.
Is definitely a hard label to get as someone mentioned a 2- hour wait at the PCGS on-site submission line. I try to inquire about this special FDI Baltimore label while waiting in line but after not seeing any reference online (only FS), I had to bail out due to time constraint.
So with this Baltimore label...the coin sold for just over $7,000 which is a nice premium...but within reason....to the $2,700 cost of 1 ounce of gold.
That privvy designation is the one where the price seems to exceed any reasonable value.
@GoldFinger1969 said:
So with this Baltimore label...the coin sold for just over $7,000 which is a nice premium...but within reason....to the $2,700 cost of 1 ounce of gold.
That privvy designation is the one where the price seems to exceed any reasonable value.
Except "reasonable value" is, as always, in the eye of the beholder. First of all, the correct premium to measure is to the $3600 cost of the coin, not to the $2700 value of the gold.
So, if a $3400 premium is "within reason" for a piece of third party paper attached to a coin that is otherwise indistinguishable from 9769 identical coins, who is to say that another $20-30K is not "reasonable" for 230 coins that are actually different from the other 9770?
Not you, and not me. The market decides that, and it has spoken.
None of the above. Seems like pure fantasy to me. Who on earth can possibly have that money, be willing to spend it on eBay of all places, and also have absolutely no clue with respect to value?
Comments
I don't think they will do another flowing hair so that it remains special. The Mint Director indicated they were going to do a couple more special coins for the 250th anniversary, and this FH was the first one of a historical series.
My guess is a real winner would be to do one of these in silver, maybe around 100,000-200,000, and then do 1,776 in gold, platinum, or palladium to maintain a higher priced manufactured rarity status like the FH gold.
A palladium would sort of look like pewter. And please don't put a 250 privy on it.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
g
She probably said that in that in a you tube video I have been meaning to watch. Your suggestions work. 1776 mintage, great idea. Maybe a draped bust dollar. No privies, agreed.
For the 2026 "Best of Mint'', a 1oz Gold coin(MS) will be designed based on the below image...
Winner, winner....⇊
Can you help a fellow eBay seller out folks?
He's not asking too much.
eBay seller druzski "Just looking to get my money back after grading and fees."
Remember his coin comes in "NGC scratch resistant holder."
And then this.........."This listing was ended by the seller on Mon, Dec 23 at 5:33 AM because there was an error in the listing."
eBay Link
Wait what? "230th Anniversary of the 1794 Flowing Hair $1 with Privy Mark & Hand Signed COA" PCGS graded PR69DCAM sold for $16,666.67!!!
Why is there no PCGS certification# or SB auction#??
eBay Link
Really unnecessary
"Really unnecessary"
Thanks Mr deFacto Moderator.
@Goldbully
I don't think so, didn't happen. He also had $60 & 50k pre-sales going on back then and took them down. He was/is looking for some attention and interest in his other items, which were reasonable(when I was looking at his scam FH Privy sales)...
I'm not moderating. I'm expressing an opinion about your opinion. There is no reason to use obscenities and hurl an insult at anyone, especially someone simply selling a coin on eBay.
For all you knew, they had intended to keep it but need the money to pay their child's medical bills. It was uncalled for. I didn't tell you that you couldn't say it. I didn't report it to the actual moderators, although I could have. I simply said that it was unnecessary... and we could add unkind, if you like.
Because it was a presale from before the actual auction. Since they didn't have a coin in hand, they couldn't post a certification #.
I think I recognize the seller as someone who made some sketchy posts on our forum. I might be wrong about that, but I'm probably not wrong about anyone not taking a ~$10K loss on an eBay presale. Which is why it is foolish to get involved with them unless it is with a reputable established seller.
TLDR -- no way anyone will actually be receiving what they paid for next February or March. Presumably eBay will at least ensure they get their money back, but that's the problem with presales on items like this.
They are nothing more than "heads I win, tails you lose" games where the seller is always the one flipping the coin. Had @coiner turned out to be correct, the buyer would be the proud owner at 2x+ the actual value.
Instead, the buyer just made an interest free loan to the seller, until eBay pulls the money back after the coin is not delivered. Unless the whole thing is fiction. But it would not be shocking for someone to have actually bit at that price, given where whey ended up selling for at the auction.
"I'm not moderating"
You also don't spell/grammar/fact check others as well? Got it.
He appeared to have zero intention of keeping it, given his lame description about grading fees and his random selling feedback. Good for him and the multitude of flippers, but bummer for the hundreds of people who wanted the coin to keep, if given the opportunity to buy one from the USM in the first place. Maybe the USM could've "authorized" the full "mintage limit" to be struck? Oh what could've been!?
You gave him the benefit of doubt and I can surely appreciate that. At this time, given the circumstances surrounding the release of the coin, I could not give him that benefit.
Thanks again.
Someone’s a little bitter. Yikes.
Thank you too. I don't know, maybe triggered by the poor effort with his listing?
I also hear too many complaints from people that got shut out within 2 min. It gets old...
I'm feeling much better now.
Actually, I rarely spell check or grammar check because I don't proofread my own posts that carefully. We ALL fact check. Why would we not challenge misinformation in our hobby?
,I enjoy reading the speculations you guys provide. Thanks for writing them. They don’t have to be accurate right away, or ever. The spectrum of opinion is wide.
Don't encourage them. They are now fighting over what the price will be in 2 years. That's 10,000 posts from now.
the states could bid for which ring the privy is placed
The lettering, denticles and die cracks will be hard to replicate
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
is anyone charting the sales prices of these?
For those of us who entered the debate late....what has happened to the pricing for the PR70DCAM for that V75 coin since it 1st came out and now over the last 4 years ?
NJ, I'm a bit confused (probably my fault) on where you stand. You DON'T think the FH coins should have sold where they are now trading....you thought that was too high, right ?.....but you see that price as "sticky to the downside" and NOT likely to fall alot either via a crash or a slow steady decline ? Is that correct ?
I would have thought from your earlier posts that while you might not expect a CRASH (i.e., an 80-90% decline) that you still thought a steep decline was possible/likely (i.e., 30-50%).
I have some of them, I believe Wizard has them, maybe some other online places, too.
With no sellers fee at Great collection on coins over $1,000 this one is doing pretty well for the consigner.
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1729349/2024-Flowing-Hair-High-Relief-Gold-Dollar-230th-Anniversary-First-Day-of-Issue-Baltimore-PCGS-Proof-70-DCAM
V75s started at around $8-10K when they were released. They basically went up 2-3x from there in the following months, and have stayed there the past 3+ years.
Not sure about 70s vs. 69s vs. raw. But, in general, there was a huge pop from the ~$2K issue price for those lucky enough to get one to around $8-10K, and then steady movement up from there, until 70s are now $20K+. There aren't a ton of them, so they don't trade often. I see a 69 sold on eBay a few weeks ago for $14K.
With respect to the FH gold privys, I was in a tiny minority that called the price almost exactly, and from the moment the auction was announced in the beginning of November. The source of your confusion stems from the fact that my position was always that they would sell for full retail at auction, which they did, and that there would be no flip from there, as there does not appear to be.
So, yeah, the price is the price. There are only 230 of them, so there should be support at prices similar to where 230 sold all at once in around 3 hours. No reason for anyone to chase them up from there, since anyone who might otherwise do so had a one month notice with respect to where to find them before the sale.
Similarly, anyone buying them for a flip, at the prices they ended up hammering for, was nuts. I doubt many did. They either went to collectors, or to dealers who had collectors lined up to take them. Unreasonable to think dozens, or even 100+, are sitting in dealers' inventories, and will be dumped in a fire sale in the near future, as @coiner seems to think is inevitable.
Years from now, anything is possible, so I never made any prediction with respect to that. THAT will depend on the future market for modern Mint artificial rarities.
It has held up so far for the V75, but no one really knows. @coiner thinks the V75 is special, because it's part of the AGE series, and that this is nothing more than another modern commemorative.
Not true. Modern commemorative and First Spouse coins are dead because no one cares about them, regardless of how low the mintages go. V75s are different, as are AGEs, ASEs, Morgan and Peace Dollars, etc. Not because they are part of series, but because they contain beloved, classic designs.
The FH gold coins and silver medals more closely resemble them than First Spouse coins. There IS intense interest in them. They sold out either immediately, or as soon as HHLs were lifted, and sell on the secondary market for premiums to Mint issue prices. They are going to be part of a series containing other classic designs in the Best of the Mint series to commemorate the 250th anniversary of the country in 2026.
Again, TBD whether there is long term interest in tiny privy mark subsets of anything. So far, all we have is the V75, and it has done well. These are priced similarly out of the box, so no reason to predict large movement either way in the near to intermediate future. Certainly not a crash because no one cares about the Harriett Tubman coins, or even the First Spouse liberty head coins.
What I always said is that 230 of these should be priced at at least the level of 1945 V75s, if not more. @coiner vehemently disagreed, due to the V75s being part of a popular series.
FH gold privys going for 50%+ more than V75s certainly vindicated my position out of the box. If they go down 30-50% in the future (and they very well might), it will be because people lost interest in low mintage privy coins, and the V75s will go down right along with them.
Not because a critical mass of collectors woke up from their slumber one day, suddenly realized @coiner has been right all along, and that FH gold privy coins are hot garbage whereas V75s are not, because they are not part of an annual series, and dump them for whatever they can get.
I wanted to participate in buying a classic design from the Mint, but was shut out within minutes. It's highly unlikely that I'll ever decide to buy one on the secondary market, especially since the Mint decided to backtrack on their own published mintage hype.
I knew it would happen.
Agree. Not interested in fighting the conspiracies, just that the Mint should have made more and stuck to their original numbers. Very lucky to get one. Don't care much if it appreciates or depreciates; collectors wanted them and no excuse because those numbers should have been met for others to increase their chances on release day.
Sorry Van Halen, missed that. Yes, there are very nice with actual glass. Worth it.
I totally agree with you, and it will absolutely suck if the missing coins and medals never see the light of day, for no particular reason when there is clearly demand.
OTOH, and it's not a conspiracy theory, just an inexcusable lack of transparency and communication, but, if I am right, the missing items will manifest at some point in 2026 as part of a set with other related items issued that year.
If that does happen, it will do nothing for the value of the FH items released in 2024, so those who missed out might get a second chance. Stay tuned.
Hammer at $6,000 with almost 6 hours to go. I can't find a completed listing for a PCGS "Baltimore 70". NGC & CACG pieces have been $5,500 to $7,500 on eBay.
Edit: Check that, some sales went close to $10k!
Hammer would actually be $6600. Not including credit card fees, which don't go to either the house or the consignor.
Hammer is what the buyer pays, not what the seller nets. As always, the consignor pays selling costs, whether or not they realize it. No such thing as no seller fee, unless the house is running the auction for free.
With 5 hours to go, it's probably fair to assume it will exceed eBay pricing. If not, the seller probably made a mistake giving it to GC.
"Hammer is what the buyer pays, not what the seller nets. As always, the consignor pays selling costs, whether or not they realize it. No such thing as no seller fee, unless the house is running the auction for free."
If we're talking about standard auctions, then that is incorrect. Hammer is the final bid price before the juice and other fees are added. We can only be certain what the buyer is paying, seller arrangements could vary depending on status , volume, and venue.
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Listing Fees: GreatCollections listing fees are based on the following schedule and are charged
the first time the coin is listed:
Minimum Bid $1-$99 $100-$999 $1,000 and up
Listing Fee $3 $5 $10
Seller’s Fees: Our Seller’s fees are a low 5% for coins up to $1,000 and 0% for coins over
$1,000.
edit- misunderstanding
I suppose it's as good of a time as any for a cat picture, to distract everyone from my misdirected comments and confusion.
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I haven't consigned with them--yet, as I've only been a purchaser at GC..
A $3 fee for a $.99 starting bid for a $1001 coin is a "premium" that I can handle all day long!
What am I missing here?(besides shipping it to them, highlight page, etc.)
Ian?
Sorry, I misunderstood and thought you were making a counterpoint to what I said. Im not firing on all cylinders today, carry on.
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Oops. I thought hammer included the juice, since that is set in stone, and is actually what buyers pay. I knew seller arrangements varied. But, again, no seller fee does not mean no seller fee, unless a buyer does not add buyer fees to a bid in determining where to stop bidding.
I agree, and that was the point I thought I was defending in my comment above. No matter what phrasing is used, the seller/consignor of the coins is the one buttering the biscuit.
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This is my kind of distraction ⇊ The cat might like it too!?
Congratulations
‘’Hammer at $6,000 with almost 6 hours to go. I can't find a completed listing for a PCGS "Baltimore 70". NGC & CACG pieces have been $5,500 to $7,500 on eBay.
Edit: Check that, some sales went close to $10k!’’
There has been Baltimore coins on eBay offered as little as $8,950 (or best offer) for literally weeks now with absolutely no visible activity. Period, end.
Those are the facts. Not the misinformation, followed by the silly opinions based on the misinformation, we read here (and have seen for about 41 pages of this thread thus far).
Good job GC (and PCGS!) on adding a few thousand dollars to this coin (thus far with 3 hours to go) for the word “Baltimore” on the insert (coin at $7k+ now with BP)!
Wondercoin.
P.S. There was a 3rd Baltimore FDI coin offered a bit higher than the other two coins under $9,000, and that seller raised their price even higher after discussion here that pop was only 10 (that then moved to 11). No action on that coin either obviously.
Very expensive lesson it appears!
$7,000 including bp with 3 hours to go.
PCGS Pop Report shows 11 total pieces graded with the Baltimore FDOI label. All 11 are 70s. Most pieces from Baltimore must have gone elsewhere.
pcgs.com/2024-flowing-hair-high-relief-au-230th-anniversary-first-day-issue-baltimore-dcam/970058
Is definitely a hard label to get as someone mentioned a 2- hour wait at the PCGS on-site submission line. I try to inquire about this special FDI Baltimore label while waiting in line but after not seeing any reference online (only FS), I had to bail out due to time constraint.
Looks like special label (and GC customer base) added about $2,500+ value. Was probably worth standing 2 hours in PCGS line to add that value?
Wondercoin.
So with this Baltimore label...the coin sold for just over $7,000 which is a nice premium...but within reason....to the $2,700 cost of 1 ounce of gold.
That privvy designation is the one where the price seems to exceed any reasonable value.
Except "reasonable value" is, as always, in the eye of the beholder. First of all, the correct premium to measure is to the $3600 cost of the coin, not to the $2700 value of the gold.
So, if a $3400 premium is "within reason" for a piece of third party paper attached to a coin that is otherwise indistinguishable from 9769 identical coins, who is to say that another $20-30K is not "reasonable" for 230 coins that are actually different from the other 9770?
Not you, and not me. The market decides that, and it has spoken.
Talk about greedy.....#14 sold for $38k, the eBay seller is asking $100k.
Testing the waters or fishing for a sucker?
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None of the above. Seems like pure fantasy to me. Who on earth can possibly have that money, be willing to spend it on eBay of all places, and also have absolutely no clue with respect to value?
More like exercising their right to sell it for however much they want.
If someone wants to pay that much it will sell. If not, then the seller can choose to lower the price or keep it.
2061 coins now graded by our hosts....20.6% of the total population.
Edited to add: That is if there are actually 10,000 in collectors hands. ☺️
Pop Report as of January 01, 2025............
Whew, GB, you saved this thread from the dregs of back pages!