@Manorcourtman said:
My guess is around 20k for one of the 69’s. But that may on the low side. I think the people that think they will immediately flip these for a profit have a rude awakening coming their way.
I don't think many people are planning on flipping after a public auction. Some dealers will list them, of course.
@goldbuffalo said:
Are they saying a Privy was struck before any non-privy? If it was the very first coin struck, it would have to be that way.
The privy is on the die
Of course, please add coin after the word privy.
Back to my point, Stacks says, #1 Coin Struck of 230, that's fine.
But then they say, "This is the VERY FIRST coin struck of the historic 230th anniversary Flowing Hair gold coin series,"
The way I'm reading it, is, for that to be true, then production minting of the non-privy coins could not have started prior to that Privy Coin being struck.
If Non privy production had already started, then one of us will have " the VERY FIRST coin struck of the historic 230th anniversary Flowing Hair gold coin series, " and that one there might be # 17501.
I'm just saying, if I was spending well over $50,000, I'd want to know, but I'm not, so if the buyer doesn't care that's fine with me.
There is no way to prove your point if your interpretation is correct.
Maybe they had a Stacks rep in the room when that coin was struck and has the production schedules showing that zero non-privy coins were struck yet.
He is not talking about the privy first coin. He is stating that a non privy coin might have been the first coin struck.
If he is correct there is no way anyone who owns it can prove it was the first one struck so it's a moot point.
Couldn't some 69's be 69's because of planchet issues rather than striking and post-strike handling?
I have a tiny planchet flaw on the reverse of my FH, so I assume I’ll be getting a 69 because the rest of the coin is perfect. I’ll post an image later today.
Are planchet flaws really supposed to prohibit 70 grades for coins which technically are "as struck"?
Not the best pics, but you should get the idea.
If you could see the coin in hand under a loupe, you would see a tiny de-laminated mirror surface which exposed a "chalky" looking metal.
@Manorcourtman said:
My guess is around 20k for one of the 69’s. But that may on the low side. I think the people that think they will immediately flip these for a profit have a rude awakening coming their way.
I dont think they will get that high at all. They will not surpass the value of a 2020-w v75 Privy $50 Gold in like grade.
This is a one off issue, like a commem, not part of a popular series like the American Eagle Series.
Since they are all graded and not raw, my previous comments were RAW they would be pressed to get 5 figures, no more than 12,500.
Graded I think the 70's (without any special position first/last/etc) will bring about 15,000 each and the 69's probably 10k each. I think im stretching it for those amounts.
I am NOT a buyer at any of those levels. The value will only decrease.
@Manorcourtman said:
My guess is around 20k for one of the 69’s. But that may on the low side. I think the people that think they will immediately flip these for a profit have a rude awakening coming their way.
I dont think they will get that high at all. They will not surpass the value of a 2020-w v75 Privy $50 Gold in like grade.
This is a one off issue, like a commem, not part of a popular series like the American Eagle Series.
Since they are all graded and not raw, my previous comments were RAW they would be pressed to get 5 figures, no more than 12,500.
Graded I think the 70's (without any special position first/last/etc) will bring about 15,000 each and the 69's probably 10k each. I think im stretching it for those amounts.
I am NOT a buyer at any of those levels. The value will only decrease.
I mostly agree. I think 10k is probably the minimum for a generic. But it's wouldn't be surprised if the buzz makes people a little crazy. I think the long term value is going to be problematic for the reasons you mention. But in the middle of the hype... who knows? (Other than NJ, of course)
I had no idea privy marked pieces were offered? No mention on the Mint's site??? I did a bit of searching and found this:
As a tribute to the number of years that have elapsed since the Flowing Hair dollar coin was introduced, the Mint will also auction 230 one ounce, high relief, 24-karat gold coins with a “230” privy mark on December 12, 2024. The first coin will be auctioned with the die in a custom-made display box. Each of the coins will be accompanied by a certificate of authenticity hand-signed by the Honorable Ventris C. Gibson, Director of the United States Mint. Additional details about this special auction will be released at a later date.
@Manorcourtman said:
My guess is around 20k for one of the 69’s. But that may on the low side. I think the people that think they will immediately flip these for a profit have a rude awakening coming their way.
I dont think they will get that high at all. They will not surpass the value of a 2020-w v75 Privy $50 Gold in like grade.
This is a one off issue, like a commem, not part of a popular series like the American Eagle Series.
Since they are all graded and not raw, my previous comments were RAW they would be pressed to get 5 figures, no more than 12,500.
Graded I think the 70's (without any special position first/last/etc) will bring about 15,000 each and the 69's probably 10k each. I think im stretching it for those amounts.
I am NOT a buyer at any of those levels. The value will only decrease.
The privy stuff surfaced long after I was out of coins. Is this what you all are referring to regarding v75? Which other coin also had a privy and offered years ago exclusively through Stacks prior to upcoming FH gold?
Are planchet flaws really supposed to prohibit 70 grades for coins which technically are "as struck"?
Newbie here, but I think so. At least that is what this grading video implies. Weakly / poorly struck coins get lower grades. Not quite the same as a planchet issue, but maybe falls into the same category among graders.
Are planchet flaws really supposed to prohibit 70 grades for coins which technically are "as struck"?
Newbie here, but I think so. At least that is what this grading video implies. Weakly / poorly struck coins get lower grades. Not quite the same as a planchet issue, but maybe falls into the same category among graders.
On modern proofs, the difference between 69 and 70 is rarely if ever strike quality. Usually you can find a nick or frost break.
what is so significant about the number "230"? i know its been 230 years since the first flowing hair...but surely this is NOT the only offering by the mint right? like...there can be a 235, 240 privy or 250 privy down the line?
@goldenpanda711 said:
what is so significant about the number "230"? i know its been 230 years since the first flowing hair...but surely this is NOT the only offering by the mint right? like...there can be a 235, 240 privy or 250 privy down the line?
Appears that the FH releases are intended to be the initial offerings in the Mint's Semi-Q line-up.
@PhilArnold said:
I had one in my cart at 9am on the 14th, and I hesitated. “Do I really want to spend $3600 on a coin? There’s so much to do around the house.”
So I missed out. I regret it a bit - the coin looks amazing. I won’t hesitate on the inevitable draped bust coin in a couple of years.
Hi Phil, thanks for checking in and sharing your experience.
This is good info and originally assumed the 6293 was in regards to pure.
The xx93 quantity is interesting.
8000 -230 Privy would be 7770 and allow for 10% bulk buyers is 7770 x .9 leaves 6993 available to website and mint in person such as Baltimore. Pull 700 from that is 6293.
Any number ending 000 kicks out same 93 using formula pulling out 230 Privy and then 10% set aside for bulk buyers. Run formula off 17,500 and does not end in x93 and actually leaves 15,543 available through site and in person sales.
Anyone made a purchase today or yesterday with order number to see if the lowest reported 219xx can add on 15k?
The 6293 is more inline with order range for Thursdays 4 min window.
This is good info and originally assumed the 6293 was in regards to pure.
The xx93 quantity is interesting.
8000 -230 Privy would be 7770 and allow for 10% bulk buyers is 7770 x .9 leaves 6993 available to website and mint in person such as Baltimore. Pull 700 from that is 6293.
Any number ending 000 kicks out same 93 using formula pulling out 230 Privy and then 10% set aside for bulk buyers. Run formula off 17,500 and does not end in x93 and actually leaves 15,543 available through site and in person sales.
Anyone made a purchase today or yesterday with order number to see if the lowest reported 219xx can add on 15k?
The 6293 is more inline with order range for Thursdays 4 min window.
You can't compare numbers across days. They sell thousands of items daily that aren't this product, maybe tens of thousands.
Comments
I don't think many people are planning on flipping after a public auction. Some dealers will list them, of course.
He is not talking about the privy first coin. He is stating that a non privy coin might have been the first coin struck.
If he is correct there is no way anyone who owns it can prove it was the first one struck so it's a moot point.
Not the best pics, but you should get the idea.
If you could see the coin in hand under a loupe, you would see a tiny de-laminated mirror surface which exposed a "chalky" looking metal.
What's up with the metal flow at the top of the reverse?
Probably just a reflection
I dont think they will get that high at all. They will not surpass the value of a 2020-w v75 Privy $50 Gold in like grade.
This is a one off issue, like a commem, not part of a popular series like the American Eagle Series.
Since they are all graded and not raw, my previous comments were RAW they would be pressed to get 5 figures, no more than 12,500.
Graded I think the 70's (without any special position first/last/etc) will bring about 15,000 each and the 69's probably 10k each. I think im stretching it for those amounts.
I am NOT a buyer at any of those levels. The value will only decrease.
Yes.
I mostly agree. I think 10k is probably the minimum for a generic. But it's wouldn't be surprised if the buzz makes people a little crazy. I think the long term value is going to be problematic for the reasons you mention. But in the middle of the hype... who knows? (Other than NJ, of course)
Additional images, including the dies and special packaging are now included on lot 1.
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-1EVVII/2024-230th-anniversary-flowing-hair-high-relief-gold-coin-special-230-privy-mark-the-very-first-coin-struck-with-canceled-obverse-a
I had no idea privy marked pieces were offered? No mention on the Mint's site??? I did a bit of searching and found this:
As a tribute to the number of years that have elapsed since the Flowing Hair dollar coin was introduced, the Mint will also auction 230 one ounce, high relief, 24-karat gold coins with a “230” privy mark on December 12, 2024. The first coin will be auctioned with the die in a custom-made display box. Each of the coins will be accompanied by a certificate of authenticity hand-signed by the Honorable Ventris C. Gibson, Director of the United States Mint. Additional details about this special auction will be released at a later date.
The privy stuff surfaced long after I was out of coins. Is this what you all are referring to regarding v75? Which other coin also had a privy and offered years ago exclusively through Stacks prior to upcoming FH gold?
https://www.usmint.gov/end-of-world-war-ii-75th-anniversary-american-eagle-gold-proof-coin-20XE.html?srsltid=AfmBOooCNl145lixQpFCkTYgdyqxVOSqDFfK5qjLCbvUsk__istNeq1R
I’m not liking the privy mark on these reminds me of a chop mark
How are they available when the Mint claims these will be auctioned off on 12 Dec?
Let’s hope Daniel Carr wins that auction and we get some sweet overstrikes with the canceled die!
Newbie here, but I think so. At least that is what this grading video implies. Weakly / poorly struck coins get lower grades. Not quite the same as a planchet issue, but maybe falls into the same category among graders.
Just came in my email...
On modern proofs, the difference between 69 and 70 is rarely if ever strike quality. Usually you can find a nick or frost break.
Coin 1 is getting bid up already.
Huh?
The auction is up at Stack's
I assume that’s when the auctions ends
Only one of them appears to be First Strike and what a premium that will bring! Or is the difference that it was first struck?
Yes
Link: https://www.usmint.gov/end-of-world-war-ii-75th-anniversary-american-eagle-gold-proof-coin-20XE.html
Including this time, SB has partnered with the Mint on three occasions.
Source: https://stacksbowers.com/sbpressreleases/the-united-states-mint-selects-stacks-bowers-galleries-to-sell-privy-mark-230th-anniversary-flowing-hair-high-relief-gold-coins/
The D&D coins did NOT have a privy. Their strike order was documented (e.g., 8th to the last T1 AGE struck). Link to the D&D catalog.
Now $6,500 and coin is 2nd struck. Will bring big bucks, even though it's a 69!!!
12 is my favorite number and I’m currently high bidder. I’m begging everyone to please just ignore that one now 😂
Not much interest in #12......I just may up the ante a nickel.
😂
Thanks. That is a very cool set.
Weird, mine shows $5,500
Photoshop. Stack's had well defined bidding increments. You couldn't bid $1.12 or $5000.12 even if you wanted
Does anyone think they took multiple photos of each coin or just 230 front of slab photos and re-used the rest of them?
Photoshop yes and quite a bad one at that!
You got to know I'm just playing with you, Buddy!!!
I think I got too much time on my hands, not to mention these Gold FH's can effect your mind!!
I'm with you, but at these prices they had to take multiples.
Ha! I didn’t even notice. After zooming in on 12 I see a few imperfections on the slab shot. Dust?
what is so significant about the number "230"? i know its been 230 years since the first flowing hair...but surely this is NOT the only offering by the mint right? like...there can be a 235, 240 privy or 250 privy down the line?
Day 2 Market Stats:
Current High Bid: $4,111.00
Current Low Ask: $4,500.00
Total Sales: 66
Average Sale: $4,154.24
Sale Velocity: 1.375/hour.
Market Price trending slightly down today (assuming because of restock coins).
Check out this info for yourself!
So is it basically established that mint has run out of non-privies, or still a few more tiny chances?
I'll go with the latter.....welcome aboard the coin forum.
Pinehurst offerings............
Pinehurst Link
Appears that the FH releases are intended to be the initial offerings in the Mint's Semi-Q line-up.
0:00 - 1:05 at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8NJ4dX41ZE
that's tough...
There's a high likelihood more will become available.
Did anyone get one, or more, this morning?
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
44 loaded today
How do u know? Also unavailable in less than 10 seconds LOL
One nice touch from the Whitman Expo folks, all attendees received a Red Book......can't complain.
That book is over 450 pages now
A few more misc. shots.........
I had one in my cart at 9am on the 14th, and I hesitated. “Do I really want to spend $3600 on a coin? There’s so much to do around the house.”
So I missed out. I regret it a bit - the coin looks amazing. I won’t hesitate on the inevitable draped bust coin in a couple of years.
Phil Arnold
Director of Photography, GreatCollections
greatcollections.com
Hi Phil, thanks for checking in and sharing your experience.
Really enjoy your GreatPhotos over at GC.
Looking at the order number sequence during order period the > @treybenedict said:
This is good info and originally assumed the 6293 was in regards to pure.
The xx93 quantity is interesting.
8000 -230 Privy would be 7770 and allow for 10% bulk buyers is 7770 x .9 leaves 6993 available to website and mint in person such as Baltimore. Pull 700 from that is 6293.
Any number ending 000 kicks out same 93 using formula pulling out 230 Privy and then 10% set aside for bulk buyers. Run formula off 17,500 and does not end in x93 and actually leaves 15,543 available through site and in person sales.
Anyone made a purchase today or yesterday with order number to see if the lowest reported 219xx can add on 15k?
The 6293 is more inline with order range for Thursdays 4 min window.
When Trey Benedict was able to view the 44 available this morning realized his 6293 was in regards to usmint.com on Thurs.
I have no idea where you are finding the number with new website code. Are you using query command to extract data such a fraction of a second?
You can't compare numbers across days. They sell thousands of items daily that aren't this product, maybe tens of thousands.