Hey, @Copperindian , if you're "Going CACG", you should be aware of the following coin being offered by Rick Snow (yes, it was mine):
1894 66+RB.
There are NO 1894 RB's graded any finer than this 66+RB by CACG OR PCGS.
There's a total of ONLY TWO - This one by CACG, and one graded 66+RB by PCGS.
I don't know about the one graded by PCGS, but this one graded by CACG also has Rick Snow's Eagle Eye Photo Seal (in effect, it's "Double-Stickered", since CACG graded it 66+RB). Unlike CAC stickering, which does not recognize plus grades, a coin graded by CACG with a plus grade means that CACG agrees the coin is solid as a plus!
Rick says in his listing that in his opinion this coin is 95% Red!
Hey @winesteven: back at ya. I sure know about your coin & I’ve looked it over more than once. She’s an abject beauty, Steve; I’m sorry you’re selling it!
As far as the PCGS example, I own that one. Also EEPS but it’s never been submitted to CAC. I can’t answer if it would hold up to CACG’s exacting standards, but it’s fine enough for me.
Thanks for the heads-up, though. Btw, I’m not actually going CACG (just maybe an awkward header for the coin, awkward especially for those that may have missed my 4 CACG coins from a couple weeks ago)! I like not only their standards, but their holders & the fact they put obscure varieties (not in cherrypickers) on the label. PCGS doesn’t do the latter.
This is the second part of the trade I just completed with a long time IHC/FE collector. I posted the first part in the FE thread. Straight swap & a really good deal for both of us! Btw, it’s the only one of this rare variety accorded with the 55+ grade (hey PCGS - just step up & give it a 58)!
This is the second part of the trade I just completed with a long time IHC/FE collector. I posted the first part in the FE thread. Straight swap & a really good deal for both of us! Btw, it’s the only one of this rare variety accorded with the 55+ grade (hey PCGS - just step up & give it a 58)!
This is the second part of the trade I just completed with a long time IHC/FE collector. I posted the first part in the FE thread. Straight swap & a really good deal for both of us! Btw, it’s the only one of this rare variety accorded with the 55+ grade (hey PCGS - just step up & give it a 58)!
@redraider, thank you. You could be right that it may not be the S3. Ken @Copperindian and I tried to figure which die marriage this S3 could be, but we couldn’t find a match. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what characteristics would make this an S4. Thanks, Zack. Oh, and by the way, the TV makes this IHC, look less RB than brown. In hand has about 50% red.
Yes....the attribution is quite easy, the S-4 variety has the date further to the left, where the 1 lines up to the left of the bust. The S-3 examples are further to the right. It was supposedly the same digit punch, so there shouldn't really be any variance to the way the 69/69 looks.
I do know the S-4 is scarcer and your example is probably one of the finest known. I did have an MS65RD example of the S-4 a while back, but traded it to Rick for something else.
@redraider said:
Yes....the attribution is quite easy, the S-4 variety has the date further to the left, where the 1 lines up to the left of the bust. The S-3 examples are further to the right. It was supposedly the same digit punch, so there shouldn't really be any variance to the way the 69/69 looks.
I do know the S-4 is scarcer and your example is probably one of the finest known. I did have an MS65RD example of the S-4 a while back, but traded it to Rick for something else.
Thanks for your quick and informative response. Always go with the experts, I appreciate you and Ken. Zack
@jfriedm56: no wonder we couldn’t figure it out! We needed @redraider! My 2C - he’s correct. This is the second time I’ve overlooked a S-4 in a S-3 holder. The position of the “1” is the first indicator. Of course, there are others, particularly in the date.
It’s a common mistake; even the “boss” missed this one. In any case I’ll say again - it’s a nice one!
However, I’m not quite sure about the rarity vs the S-3. The latter is more popular, but I’m willing to guess there are more S-4’s out there masquerading as 3’s. As a value proposition, though, I would go with the S-4. They should go for a higher price on a relative basis, but they don’t & likely never will have the cachet of the S-3’s.
@redraider: was your 65RD attributed? Wish I had known. Are you Queen City Coin on eBay? If yes, I’ll have to peruse your listings with more frequency!
@Copperindian, here is the link for the one I had. This was used in part of a trade for my 1856 PF64 FE. It was unattributed and I (practically) stole it for $3050 when it was purchased!! It had a CAC Sticker and Rick Photo Sealed it when he got it. It never listed on his website, so my guess is he had a buyer lined up with this on a want list.
I can’t recall ever posting this tough 3* beauty. I offered it in a trade & am waiting to see if the seller will swap out his 64RB for this 63BN. This coin is not only nice for the grade, but has exceptional eye appeal. This is the S-2 variety; its main features are the repunching in each of the digits in the date & a piece of a “1” sticking out of the pearls.
Even though I proposed the trade, I’m really going to miss this one if it’s accepted.
Update (11/25): looks like I’m keeping it as there’s no response to my offer & that’s OK!
Update #2 (11/30): SOLD!
There’s a guy who needs help who posted an authenticity question on the “Q & A Forum”, asking if the “S” mint marks on his circulated 1908 and 1909 IHC’s are authentic, or altered? Can someone here with expertise help him out? It’s near the top of that Q & A Forum. Be careful about his accidental duplicate post further down on that Forum.
Note: His “flag” says “Answered”, but as of now it’s not.
Thanks!
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@winesteven said:
There’s a guy who needs help who posted an authenticity question on the “Q & A Forum”, asking if the “S” mint marks on his circulated 1908 and 1909 IHC’s are authentic, or altered? Can someone here with expertise help him out?
Really interesting S-25 variety not listed in Cherrypickers. CACG places these on their label anyway; this one’s in process.
Beautiful 1870, Ken. She’s awfully RED for being labeled R/B. Nice pickup!
Looks like the obverse portrait and USofA are re-engraved. Is the reverse a DDR as I see doubling on the E and N in CENT, and doubling on the N in ONE? Or is this the variety that has the new hub rev. punched over the old? Interesting.
@jfriedm56: thanks Zack; yes - it is loaded with RD! As far as earmarks, there are 5 that were obvious to me:
1) a die crack from the “18” in the date to the rim;
2) a heavier, longer die crack from the rim through “UNIT” & the bust point that continues in the field above the date;
3) die file marks on the left rev rim area that begin from the “O” in ONE & continue to the arrow quill. They seem to get more pronounced as they go down the left rev;
4) doubling evidenced on the “N” in ONE & the “CE” in CENT. The E doubling makes the letter look crooked;
5) a die crack from 1:00 through the leaves that ends near the middle arrow tip.
Of course, there may be more, but these were the ones that stood out.
Ken
Used to have an extensive collection of IHC's - this is the only one I have now - nicer than 67's I've had!
Have really enjoyed seeing the coins in this thread - thanks for posting!
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
@Lakesammman: great to see a true IHC legend post in this thread!
My latest (& one I’ve shied away from for years):
Really nice toning; unusual for this type. Now considered a regular issue instead of a pattern. Even so, I have no plans to have it designated as such.
Nice add on Ken! It should be included in the regular set. Typical strike for the issue. I anticipate these to be strong in the coming years as people start to add them to their full sets.
Wonderful addition Ken. I’ve always been intrigued by this IHC, and now that the status has changed to a regular issue, I’m now on the hunt. Keep’em coming.
Answer: both are 3b. IHC variety collectors covet the 1869/69 3b die pair. It’s the most rare & seldom seen, especially in MS grades. It has a distinctive die lump on the N in ONE on the rev. The second pic shows this clearly. Coin is graded 64RB (terrible tv btw).
The top one is a 66RB & an EDS example of the 3b die pair. It was struck prior to the lump forming on the die. It is much more rare than the “lump” example.
Interestingly enough, collectors likely prefer an example with the obvious lump rather than the EDS without one. Kind of an anomaly.
Somehow, I managed to be on these boards for the last year without ever opening this thread up. I know, I know, how could that happen? Now that I have spent the last hour looking at these incredible IHCs and giving myself carpel tunnel from hitting the "Like" button over and over, I have come to the conclusion that @asheland can either pay for my medical expenses to carpel tunnel surgery or, instead, can simply mail me that incredibly attractive PCGS VF25 1877 that has been posted in this thread.
I guess I get to put up post numbers 298 and 299 in this thread. This coin is not nearly as rare as myriad others in this thread and is not nearly as high grade as so many others and is definitely not nearly as valuable as coin after coin after coin that has been shared, but I like it. For the IHC series I really like RD coins to be in older holders because I believe they are likely going to be more stable overall, and much less likely to show a fingerprint in the future, than newer holdered coins.
Comments
Going CACG
Super interesting 3* variety with great eye appeal. As is usually the case with them, the coin is nice for the grade.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Forgive me if I have already posted it, but this is one of my favorites:
Early last year, I sent this one to Rick Snow and it passed for an eagle eye photo seal.
My YouTube Channel
Hey, @Copperindian , if you're "Going CACG", you should be aware of the following coin being offered by Rick Snow (yes, it was mine):
1894 66+RB.
https://www.indiancent.com/1894-1c-indian-cent-type-3-bronze-pcgs-photo-seal-cac-176004928.html
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Hey @winesteven: back at ya. I sure know about your coin & I’ve looked it over more than once. She’s an abject beauty, Steve; I’m sorry you’re selling it!
As far as the PCGS example, I own that one. Also EEPS but it’s never been submitted to CAC. I can’t answer if it would hold up to CACG’s exacting standards, but it’s fine enough for me.
Thanks for the heads-up, though. Btw, I’m not actually going CACG (just maybe an awkward header for the coin, awkward especially for those that may have missed my 4 CACG coins from a couple weeks ago)! I like not only their standards, but their holders & the fact they put obscure varieties (not in cherrypickers) on the label. PCGS doesn’t do the latter.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
I upgraded that coin with an 1894 MS66+RD, double stickered. Rick gave that new one a PDS score of 15.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Steve -
Now I see why you’re selling! Always good to own a “Bender”; here’s mine:
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Man! That’s a fireball!
My YouTube Channel
Trick or Treat
PCGS 65BN. Reminds me of Halloween a bit. Btw, the green is legit, not verdigris. But, while the coin’s a “treat”, here’s the “trick”:
Old tv from the SecurePlus days & yes, it’s the same coin (actually, I wouldn’t mind buying a IHC that looked like that)!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Latest Win:
PCGS 66RB. Pop 2/1. Beautiful, problem-free piece with beautiful toning & spectacular eye appeal!
PG: $3000. Winning bid: $2200 with BP.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
I am very picky on appearance, and I think that coin looks absolutely fantastic!
Much respect 👍
My YouTube Channel
Newest pickup:
Unusual, even rare variety & the only one graded RD. I had a 63BN I used as a trade chip; nice deal for both of us.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
The latest:
This is the second part of the trade I just completed with a long time IHC/FE collector. I posted the first part in the FE thread. Straight swap & a really good deal for both of us! Btw, it’s the only one of this rare variety accorded with the 55+ grade (hey PCGS - just step up & give it a 58)!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Very nice overdate Ken. Should be a 58!
Extraordinary coin! 😎
My YouTube Channel
WOW
JUST WOW
Great coin Ken
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
The latest:
66+RB CAC POP 1/0
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
I saw that at Stacks! I can’t believe you got it for the price you did! You stole it! Congratulations!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
@winesteven: Thanks Steve! It was a good price, but I had to correct my post - it was a 66+RB; mistakenly, I had it as a 66RB.
Ken
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Great examples all!
Posted in another thread, but for those who didn’t see this:
I think Rick misattributed this one.....Looks like an S-4 to me. Scarcer than the S-3, but brings about the same premium. Very nice coin!
I just agreed to purchase this one....This is very, very rare!
@redraider, thank you. You could be right that it may not be the S3. Ken @Copperindian and I tried to figure which die marriage this S3 could be, but we couldn’t find a match. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what characteristics would make this an S4. Thanks, Zack. Oh, and by the way, the TV makes this IHC, look less RB than brown. In hand has about 50% red.
Yes....the attribution is quite easy, the S-4 variety has the date further to the left, where the 1 lines up to the left of the bust. The S-3 examples are further to the right. It was supposedly the same digit punch, so there shouldn't really be any variance to the way the 69/69 looks.
I do know the S-4 is scarcer and your example is probably one of the finest known. I did have an MS65RD example of the S-4 a while back, but traded it to Rick for something else.
Thanks for your quick and informative response. Always go with the experts, I appreciate you and Ken. Zack
@jfriedm56: no wonder we couldn’t figure it out! We needed @redraider! My 2C - he’s correct. This is the second time I’ve overlooked a S-4 in a S-3 holder. The position of the “1” is the first indicator. Of course, there are others, particularly in the date.
It’s a common mistake; even the “boss” missed this one. In any case I’ll say again - it’s a nice one!
However, I’m not quite sure about the rarity vs the S-3. The latter is more popular, but I’m willing to guess there are more S-4’s out there masquerading as 3’s. As a value proposition, though, I would go with the S-4. They should go for a higher price on a relative basis, but they don’t & likely never will have the cachet of the S-3’s.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
@redraider: was your 65RD attributed? Wish I had known. Are you Queen City Coin on eBay? If yes, I’ll have to peruse your listings with more frequency!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
@Copperindian, here is the link for the one I had. This was used in part of a trade for my 1856 PF64 FE. It was unattributed and I (practically) stole it for $3050 when it was purchased!! It had a CAC Sticker and Rick Photo Sealed it when he got it. It never listed on his website, so my guess is he had a buyer lined up with this on a want list.
https://www.indiancent.com/photoseal/?ps_query=3659279&submit_query=Lookup
Yes, my side-hustle is Queen City Coin!
Awesome coin Copperindian. Congrats!
Farewell (maybe):
I can’t recall ever posting this tough 3* beauty. I offered it in a trade & am waiting to see if the seller will swap out his 64RB for this 63BN. This coin is not only nice for the grade, but has exceptional eye appeal. This is the S-2 variety; its main features are the repunching in each of the digits in the date & a piece of a “1” sticking out of the pearls.
Even though I proposed the trade, I’m really going to miss this one if it’s accepted.
Update (11/25): looks like I’m keeping it as there’s no response to my offer & that’s OK!
Update #2 (11/30): SOLD!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Such a great series!
My YouTube Channel
There’s a guy who needs help who posted an authenticity question on the “Q & A Forum”, asking if the “S” mint marks on his circulated 1908 and 1909 IHC’s are authentic, or altered? Can someone here with expertise help him out? It’s near the top of that Q & A Forum. Be careful about his accidental duplicate post further down on that Forum.
Note: His “flag” says “Answered”, but as of now it’s not.
Thanks!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Here
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1109133/s-mints-on-1908-and-1909-ihc#latest
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Swapping:
Pop 1/0
Trading out this one:
Nice deal for both of us!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Today’s NEWP:
Really interesting S-25 variety not listed in Cherrypickers. CACG places these on their label anyway; this one’s in process.
Update 12/18: process complete with variety added & a new ID# assigned:
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Beautiful 1870, Ken. She’s awfully RED for being labeled R/B. Nice pickup!
Looks like the obverse portrait and USofA are re-engraved. Is the reverse a DDR as I see doubling on the E and N in CENT, and doubling on the N in ONE? Or is this the variety that has the new hub rev. punched over the old? Interesting.
@jfriedm56: thanks Zack; yes - it is loaded with RD! As far as earmarks, there are 5 that were obvious to me:
1) a die crack from the “18” in the date to the rim;
2) a heavier, longer die crack from the rim through “UNIT” & the bust point that continues in the field above the date;
3) die file marks on the left rev rim area that begin from the “O” in ONE & continue to the arrow quill. They seem to get more pronounced as they go down the left rev;
4) doubling evidenced on the “N” in ONE & the “CE” in CENT. The E doubling makes the letter look crooked;
5) a die crack from 1:00 through the leaves that ends near the middle arrow tip.
Of course, there may be more, but these were the ones that stood out.
Ken
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
@Copperindian, that’s a lot going on, on that Indian. Congrats Ken.
Used to have an extensive collection of IHC's - this is the only one I have now - nicer than 67's I've had!
Have really enjoyed seeing the coins in this thread - thanks for posting!
@Lakesammman: great to see a true IHC legend post in this thread!
My latest (& one I’ve shied away from for years):
Really nice toning; unusual for this type. Now considered a regular issue instead of a pattern. Even so, I have no plans to have it designated as such.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nice add on Ken! It should be included in the regular set. Typical strike for the issue. I anticipate these to be strong in the coming years as people start to add them to their full sets.
Wonderful addition Ken. I’ve always been intrigued by this IHC, and now that the status has changed to a regular issue, I’m now on the hunt. Keep’em coming.
Special Coin:
This one went for $25k in yesterdays GC auction. Pop 3/0. I’m guessing it’s headed toward a top IHC Registry set that rewards RD. A real beauty!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
3b or not 3b (answer below pics):
Answer: both are 3b. IHC variety collectors covet the 1869/69 3b die pair. It’s the most rare & seldom seen, especially in MS grades. It has a distinctive die lump on the N in ONE on the rev. The second pic shows this clearly. Coin is graded 64RB (terrible tv btw).
The top one is a 66RB & an EDS example of the 3b die pair. It was struck prior to the lump forming on the die. It is much more rare than the “lump” example.
Interestingly enough, collectors likely prefer an example with the obvious lump rather than the EDS without one. Kind of an anomaly.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Somehow, I managed to be on these boards for the last year without ever opening this thread up. I know, I know, how could that happen? Now that I have spent the last hour looking at these incredible IHCs and giving myself carpel tunnel from hitting the "Like" button over and over, I have come to the conclusion that @asheland can either pay for my medical expenses to carpel tunnel surgery or, instead, can simply mail me that incredibly attractive PCGS VF25 1877 that has been posted in this thread.
Just let me know what you want to do, @asheland!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I guess I get to put up post numbers 298 and 299 in this thread. This coin is not nearly as rare as myriad others in this thread and is not nearly as high grade as so many others and is definitely not nearly as valuable as coin after coin after coin that has been shared, but I like it. For the IHC series I really like RD coins to be in older holders because I believe they are likely going to be more stable overall, and much less likely to show a fingerprint in the future, than newer holdered coins.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson