So for the subscription shipping, shall we expect the mint to ship on November 9th, before, or after that date? I got the cc email verification few days back.
@SilverPlatinum said:
So for the subscription shipping, shall we expect the mint to ship on November 9th, before, or after that date? I got the cc email verification few days back.
Yes. They will be pushing well over 100,000 sets out the door, between subscriptions and regular orders. Nothing goes out before the on-sale date. They will start shipping on the 9th, and it will be several days before they all go out the door. You'll get an e-mail when yours ship.
@SilverPlatinum said:
So for the subscription shipping, shall we expect the mint to ship on November 9th, before, or after that date? I got the cc email verification few days back.
Yes. They will be pushing well over 100,000 sets out the door, between subscriptions and regular orders. Nothing goes out before the on-sale date. They will start shipping on the 9th, and it will be several days before they all go out the door. You'll get an e-mail when yours ship.
@Joe_360 said: @bestday
Those are too extreme outlier examples as one off years. The 2020 Gold privy was a one year very low mintage that sold out in 90 seconds...
The 2006 20th Anniv Gold 3 coin set .. graded still 3x mint price in 69s... 2020 Gold privy ...xxx+...
The 2006 20th anniversary gold set was $2600 for THREE ounces of gold total. Of course the current price is way more, with a melt value of $6000.
I’m seeing a lot of folks who are (claiming) to cancel their subscriptions. I’m actually surprised- this is a great set and a completely new finish, the first in a potentially new series.
Are the cancellations people who thought they found the pot of gold and now are rethinking? I signed up for two and am sticking to it. No plans to sell anytime soon and no plans to grade. I just like the coins and the presentation.
Maybe this program of allowing no commitment subscriptions might be the wrong direction?
Anyway I’m excited to see what shows up in the next week or so. Happy collecting
@Orlena said:
I’m seeing a lot of folks who are (claiming) to cancel their subscriptions. I’m actually surprised- this is a great set and a completely new finish, the first in a potentially new series.
They weren’t in it for the coins, they were subscribing to the buy the flip, not the coin mantra.
@Orlena said:
Are the cancellations people who thought they found the pot of gold and now are rethinking? I signed up for two and am sticking to it. No plans to sell anytime soon and no plans to grade.
I like the coins too. I certainly can’t fault the mint for maximizing their revenues, I think it’s laughable some feel entitled to exclusivity, when in fact a seemingly large number of those people have no interest in the coins, just how much they can scalp them for. I’m not a fan of that approach, so looking forward to seeing them.
@Orlena said:
I just like the coins and the presentation.
Not so much the presentation. I’d have liked something like the 2012 reverse proof ASE, that was more fitting and less cheap looking.
@Orlena said:
I’m seeing a lot of folks who are (claiming) to cancel their subscriptions. I’m actually surprised- this is a great set and a completely new finish, the first in a potentially new series.
My wife went from 3 to none, I went from 3 to 2... To date, I have every modern Morgan, Peace, but I think this will be my final purchase unless da Mint throws a curve-ball...
I actually still have 5 sets for my subscription, and I indeed asked one of my friends who has 2 sets in her subscription to max it to 5 so she would give me 3.
I think 1st year of issue is a key date. However, I'm not buying any future sets for the coming years. I only care about 1st year of issue for any coin I collect.
I changed from 5 to 1 sets because the Unc and Pr 23 Morgan’s/Peace dollars 70 graded sets are now below my cost to certify/below presale costs (plus risk of 69s). Makes more sense to purchase a graded set. The announced 24 reverse proofs make it even less likely the 23 RPs will have much upside. I purchased a bunch of 2011 Reverse proof ASEs and the plethora of RP ASEs released afterwards has killed the 11’s value.
PFS Buyers Club has lowered the bar significantly on any flip.
From their e-mail sent out today...
PFS will be offering a commission of $4 for each Two-Coin Set, or a total of $20 commission for each order of five Sets, so the total payout for each Order of five sets will be $945.00
On a brighter note...They do cover shipping and insurance!
Makes me wonder now too...if I should just cancel all and go with the purchase of a guaranteed 70 pre-sale.
@Extremeengineer said:
So I only have one subscription, my intention is to keep it long term. My question is, as an individual should I send the set to a TPG, or just hold it raw? Whether we like it or not the holder does seem to add value, but as I am more limited in available labels, not sure if it would make sense to send the set in.
for these, it's best to buy these already graded and in-person, or with high res pictures of the actual coins.
most, but not 100%, mint products are money losers. buy it because you like it, not because it will make you money.
The 2006 20th Anniv Gold 3 coin set .. graded still 3x mint price in 69s... 2020 Gold privy ...xxx+...
The price of gold in 2006 averaged around $600 per ounce. Compared to the 2006 three coin set, you could have done as well or better buying anything gold near melt.
Like many, I lowered my subscription from 5 to 2 sets. Also, for anyone checking their subscriptions be sure to check the Billing and Delivery tab on your orders.
There is a "subscription standard" that is $12.95 (3-6 business days) that is the default. There is a "subscription budget" selection that is free (1-2 weeks). It would be a shame to spend another $12.95 for a set by mistake.
The site indicates free shipping when you subscribe, but my recent ones initially went to the subscription standard $12.95 setting.
Serious question..let's imagine for a second that TPGs and slabs didn't exist...and with it the ability to flip or secure guaranteed 70 coins...if so, then how many of these sets would you be ordering?
I'm still ordering 4 sets...and that's not impacted by flipping or any other issues other than I like these coins.
@RichR said:
Serious question..let's imagine for a second that TPGs and slabs didn't exist...and with it the ability to flip or secure guaranteed 70 coins...if so, then how many of these sets would you be ordering?
I'm still ordering 4 sets...and that's not impacted by flipping or any other issues other than I like these coins.
I don't think the TPGs have anything to do with it. People flipped coins before TPGs. The people who are dropping their subs are doing it because they don't think it is a profitable flipping opportunity, not because of the availability of slabs.
@RichR said:
Serious question..let's imagine for a second that TPGs and slabs didn't exist...and with it the ability to flip or secure guaranteed 70 coins...if so, then how many of these sets would you be ordering?
I'm still ordering 4 sets...and that's not impacted by flipping or any other issues other than I like these coins.
I don't think the TPGs have anything to do with it. People flipped coins before TPGs. The people who are dropping their subs are doing it because they don't think it is a profitable flipping opportunity, not because of the availability of slabs.
[Note: I'm holding firm on my 10 subs]
With all due respect, I think you are missing the point here. Yes, of course, flipping has been a thing forever, or at least since supply has been limited to less than demand.
But, the point now is, with the Mint closely matching production to demand, and making coins available in bulk to dealers, and giving dealers an advance peek into how the coins will grade, the wide availability of 70 graded slabs at prices individuals and small dealers cannot match, is EXACTLY what is killing the flip here.
These WILL sell out. In the past, that was enough for a profitable flip, even if secondary market values are not sustained. But not anymore. Not when RP 70 sets are widely available for less than 2x issue price a month before release.
That's why flips are dead. No one will be able to make money selling these above issue price, at least not in the short run, when large dealers will not be in the market, because they not only have all they need, but they are selling them, graded for the same or less than anyone else can make their own.
These would absolutely be a decent flip if RP 70 sets were not widely available for $350 or less. So, yes, it's 100% about the availability of the slabs, which is driven by Mint bulk sales and TPG bulk grading at deep discounts.
In recent years, the Mint had made it harder for big dealers to get volume not easier. And the 70s have always been cheaper for bulk submitters.
The ABPP dealers still don't have them in hand. And the non-ABPP dealers still haven't been able to place orders for more than 5.
The Mint is the one that has killed flips with their distribution changes. The advance sale of limited subscriptions creates a more orderly distribution process that limits the number of buyers that get locked out. That's what was driving price surges.
@coiner said:
Flips only make sense in volume now.
Meh. I'll happily flip then for a 5 to 10% profit, even a single unit. Most coin margins aren't any bigger. The life of a dealer is filled with single digit margins.
@jmlanzaf
My 2023 W quarter (2019/2020) sales margin from CRH is greater then 70%, and then from my profit, I reinvest in Silver...
I do not include time into my cost, as it is my hobby.
"The life of a dealer is filled with single digit margins".
@Joe_360 said: @jmlanzaf
My 2023 W quarter (2019/2020) sales margin from CRH is greater then 70%, and then from my profit, I reinvest in Silver...
I do not include time into my cost, as it is my hobby.
"The life of a dealer is filled with single digit margins".
I'm not saying you can't get margins. Certainly if you find a 90% silver half in a roll, your margin (ignoring time) is like 90%. But retail buy/sell margins on coins are low. You can't buy Morgan dollars for 70% below retail, for example.
Any dealer with a 50% margin you would consider a crook.
@Joe_360 said: @jmlanzaf
Hit da Coin Star machine, a silver dime is >100%!
I found a dime in the parking lot. 100% profit! 😀
Well, technically, you can't get more than 100% profit. LOL. But I hear you.
There's a line from "The Color of Money" that applies. "Money won is twice as sweet as money earned." So, "Money found is twice as sweet as money won"?
@jmlanzaf said:
In recent years, the Mint had made it harder for big dealers to get volume not easier. And the 70s have always been cheaper for bulk submitters.
The ABPP dealers still don't have them in hand. And the non-ABPP dealers still haven't been able to place orders for more than 5.
The Mint is the one that has killed flips with their distribution changes. The advance sale of limited subscriptions creates a more orderly distribution process that limits the number of buyers that get locked out. That's what was driving price surges.
Sure. Literally thousands of RP 70 sets are available for presale at less than 2x issue price, but dealers don't even have confirmed orders, because they are so tough to get in volume from the Mint. They are waiting for us to drop our subs so they can scoop them up on 11/10, whisk them off to the TPGs, and then hope for the best.
Subs killed the flip, even though dealers are pre-selling coins they don't have and have no guarantee of getting? Keep telling yourself that. Price surges in the past were caused by dealers needing to go into the secondary market to buy volume. Not by a ton of individual collectors just needing a hard to get coin on Day One and paying whatever to get it.
The subs solved the problem of the website getting slammed. But the flip is dead because the dealers are now able to buy direct from the Mint, in the quantities they need.
And yes, of course 70s have always been cheaper for bulk submitters. What's different now is that a much higher percentage of the mintage is grading 70, and dealers KNOW this, and aren't merely betting on it, because they have early result from the Advance Releases. Even though you say that's impossible.
@Joe_360 said: @jmlanzaf
Hit da Coin Star machine, a silver dime is >100%!
I found a dime in the parking lot. 100% profit! 😀
Well, technically, you can't get more than 100% profit. LOL. But I hear you.
There's a line from "The Color of Money" that applies. "Money won is twice as sweet as money earned." So, "Money found is twice as sweet as money won"?
Technically? Do you understand how percentages work? What percent is the profit when you make $400 on a $40 investment? Is it more than 100%? You are confusing 100% with infinity. What else are you confused about?
@Joe_360 said: @jmlanzaf
Hit da Coin Star machine, a silver dime is >100%!
I found a dime in the parking lot. 100% profit! 😀
Well, technically, you can't get more than 100% profit. LOL. But I hear you.
There's a line from "The Color of Money" that applies. "Money won is twice as sweet as money earned." So, "Money found is twice as sweet as money won"?
Technically? Do you understand how percentages work? What percent is the profit when you make $400 on a $40 investment? Is it more than 100%? You are confusing 100% with infinity. What else are you confused about?
You can get more than 100% of your purchase price. I'm referring to the profit margin on the sale price. I sell it for $1000, I pocket $500, my gross profit margin is 50% but my ROI is 100%.
Gross profit margin is defined as 100 times profit/revenue. Profit cannot exceed revenues hence gross margins are capped at 100%
@Joe_360 said: @jmlanzaf
Hit da Coin Star machine, a silver dime is >100%!
I found a dime in the parking lot. 100% profit! 😀
Well, technically, you can't get more than 100% profit. LOL. But I hear you.
There's a line from "The Color of Money" that applies. "Money won is twice as sweet as money earned." So, "Money found is twice as sweet as money won"?
Technically? Do you understand how percentages work? What percent is the profit when you make $400 on a $40 investment? Is it more than 100%? You are confusing 100% with infinity. What else are you confused about?
You can get more than 100% of your purchase price. I'm referring to the profit margin on the sale price. I sell it for $1000, I pocket $500, my gross profit margin is 50% but my ROI is 100%.
Gross profit margin is defined as 100 times profit/revenue. Profit cannot exceed revenues hence gross margins are capped at 100%
@Che_Grapes said:
I think the flipping coins from the mint rage is mostly behind us - thoughts?
It depends...
I do not believe there have been any worthy flip opportunities this year. There may be some in the future.
For example, Taylor Swift does not tour every year but when she does, her ticket prices go to the moon.
The next time the US Mint has a "Swifty" worthy coin...the mint range will be back on!
Maybe it's just me...but paying roughy $85/silver dollar with a classic design just seems like a better deal than paying $XYZ for a base metal annual proof or mint set...and I still collect those too...for 50 years and counting now!
@Che_Grapes said:
I think the flipping coins from the mint rage is mostly behind us - thoughts?
It depends...
I do not believe there have been any worthy flip opportunities this year. There may be some in the future.
For example, Taylor Swift does not tour every year but when she does, her ticket prices go to the moon.
The next time the US Mint has a "Swifty" worthy coin...the mint range will be back on!
But the point is, it's not random. There were several releases this year that would have been great flips in years past.
The Mint has actively learned from its mistakes, and is now capturing the lion's share of the value in its popular releases for itself by pricing items close to market, and then minting around as many as the market can easily absorb at the set price. The Advance Release and bulk purchase programs are allowing their largest and best customers to get what they need without having to go into the secondary flip market.
This creates a win-win-win for the Mint, collectors and dealers, at the expense of the flippers. So, in response to @Che_Grapes question, yes, unless something goes seriously awry, the days of easy, lucrative flips are over.
The lotteries nowadays look more like signed Certificates of Authenticity being randomly seeded in shipments unannounced, rather than people killing themselves and each other trying to get one of 1945 special Gold Eagles.
@NJCoin said:
...the days of easy, lucrative flips are over.
Can you please do me a favor and put the above quote in your signature line.
I'm just curious as to how it may age over time.
Thanks!
I'm not sure it would age well at all. In a year or two, people won't even remember that risk free doubles and triples from the Mint ever existed.
The Mint was finally figured things out. I'm reasonably sure any mistakes they make will be on the side of making a few too many, like the Morgan and Peace proofs. I just don't see them leaving money on the table and, more importantly, making things difficult for their Big Boy partners, by making too few, or pricing anything too low, and creating a flip for us at the expense of the Big Boys.
@Joe_360 said:
The Coin Vault is less, $399.98 for the same, NGC PR70 1st day of issue...
This is actually a very good deal for TV, given that street prices are around $330-350. The RCTV price is more in line with what I'd expect for TV.
Don't forget, while we all think it's a ripoff, TV is a very expensive way to sell anything. Coins are not an exception.
The margins, at either $400 or $480, are actually a lot less than for a large dealer selling on the web or through eBay for $350, when you take into account buying airtime, paying hosts, and production costs, in addition to all the other inventory and shipping costs any other dealer has.
Of course, they make it up in volume, so no one needs to cry for the TV guys. But no one should think they are gouging with their prices. Not on things like this. They are selling into a different market than the one that shops at a coin show, or with their favorite dealer on the web, and the TV distribution model is expensive.
Comments
Anyone expecting to sell to Pinehurst for $100 over (minus shipping) they have all that they need already.
So for the subscription shipping, shall we expect the mint to ship on November 9th, before, or after that date? I got the cc email verification few days back.
Yes. They will be pushing well over 100,000 sets out the door, between subscriptions and regular orders. Nothing goes out before the on-sale date. They will start shipping on the 9th, and it will be several days before they all go out the door. You'll get an e-mail when yours ship.
Thank You!
I had 5 sets on subscription.. just canceled them. Just not seeing enough flipping interest
The 2006 20th anniversary gold set was $2600 for THREE ounces of gold total. Of course the current price is way more, with a melt value of $6000.
I’m seeing a lot of folks who are (claiming) to cancel their subscriptions. I’m actually surprised- this is a great set and a completely new finish, the first in a potentially new series.
Are the cancellations people who thought they found the pot of gold and now are rethinking? I signed up for two and am sticking to it. No plans to sell anytime soon and no plans to grade. I just like the coins and the presentation.
Maybe this program of allowing no commitment subscriptions might be the wrong direction?
Anyway I’m excited to see what shows up in the next week or so. Happy collecting
They weren’t in it for the coins, they were subscribing to the buy the flip, not the coin mantra.
I like the coins too. I certainly can’t fault the mint for maximizing their revenues, I think it’s laughable some feel entitled to exclusivity, when in fact a seemingly large number of those people have no interest in the coins, just how much they can scalp them for. I’m not a fan of that approach, so looking forward to seeing them.
Not so much the presentation. I’d have liked something like the 2012 reverse proof ASE, that was more fitting and less cheap looking.
@Orlena said:
I’m seeing a lot of folks who are (claiming) to cancel their subscriptions. I’m actually surprised- this is a great set and a completely new finish, the first in a potentially new series.
My wife went from 3 to none, I went from 3 to 2... To date, I have every modern Morgan, Peace, but I think this will be my final purchase unless da Mint throws a curve-ball...
I think 1st year of issue is a key date. However, I'm not buying any future sets for the coming years. I only care about 1st year of issue for any coin I collect.
I changed from 5 to 1 sets because the Unc and Pr 23 Morgan’s/Peace dollars 70 graded sets are now below my cost to certify/below presale costs (plus risk of 69s). Makes more sense to purchase a graded set. The announced 24 reverse proofs make it even less likely the 23 RPs will have much upside. I purchased a bunch of 2011 Reverse proof ASEs and the plethora of RP ASEs released afterwards has killed the 11’s value.
I too canceled my subscription of 5, I’ll just buy a graded set. I think it will be a lot more cost effective in the long run.
What's a good price to pay for a graded reverse proof set?
Assuming you mean RP 70, it looks like anything under $350. Based on that value, RP 69s really won't be worth any more than raw, so $185.
PFS Buyers Club has lowered the bar significantly on any flip.
From their e-mail sent out today...
On a brighter note...They do cover shipping and insurance!
Makes me wonder now too...if I should just cancel all and go with the purchase of a guaranteed 70 pre-sale.
BST references available on request
The price of gold in 2006 averaged around $600 per ounce. Compared to the 2006 three coin set, you could have done as well or better buying anything gold near melt.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Subscription available on Mint website right now if anyone is interested in them😎
Like many, I lowered my subscription from 5 to 2 sets. Also, for anyone checking their subscriptions be sure to check the Billing and Delivery tab on your orders.
There is a "subscription standard" that is $12.95 (3-6 business days) that is the default. There is a "subscription budget" selection that is free (1-2 weeks). It would be a shame to spend another $12.95 for a set by mistake.
The site indicates free shipping when you subscribe, but my recent ones initially went to the subscription standard $12.95 setting.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Serious question..let's imagine for a second that TPGs and slabs didn't exist...and with it the ability to flip or secure guaranteed 70 coins...if so, then how many of these sets would you be ordering?
I'm still ordering 4 sets...and that's not impacted by flipping or any other issues other than I like these coins.
I don't think the TPGs have anything to do with it. People flipped coins before TPGs. The people who are dropping their subs are doing it because they don't think it is a profitable flipping opportunity, not because of the availability of slabs.
[Note: I'm holding firm on my 10 subs]
With all due respect, I think you are missing the point here. Yes, of course, flipping has been a thing forever, or at least since supply has been limited to less than demand.
But, the point now is, with the Mint closely matching production to demand, and making coins available in bulk to dealers, and giving dealers an advance peek into how the coins will grade, the wide availability of 70 graded slabs at prices individuals and small dealers cannot match, is EXACTLY what is killing the flip here.
These WILL sell out. In the past, that was enough for a profitable flip, even if secondary market values are not sustained. But not anymore. Not when RP 70 sets are widely available for less than 2x issue price a month before release.
That's why flips are dead. No one will be able to make money selling these above issue price, at least not in the short run, when large dealers will not be in the market, because they not only have all they need, but they are selling them, graded for the same or less than anyone else can make their own.
These would absolutely be a decent flip if RP 70 sets were not widely available for $350 or less. So, yes, it's 100% about the availability of the slabs, which is driven by Mint bulk sales and TPG bulk grading at deep discounts.
Flips only make sense in volume now.
In recent years, the Mint had made it harder for big dealers to get volume not easier. And the 70s have always been cheaper for bulk submitters.
The ABPP dealers still don't have them in hand. And the non-ABPP dealers still haven't been able to place orders for more than 5.
The Mint is the one that has killed flips with their distribution changes. The advance sale of limited subscriptions creates a more orderly distribution process that limits the number of buyers that get locked out. That's what was driving price surges.
Meh. I'll happily flip then for a 5 to 10% profit, even a single unit. Most coin margins aren't any bigger. The life of a dealer is filled with single digit margins.
@jmlanzaf
My 2023 W quarter (2019/2020) sales margin from CRH is greater then 70%, and then from my profit, I reinvest in Silver...
I do not include time into my cost, as it is my hobby.
"The life of a dealer is filled with single digit margins".
I'm not saying you can't get margins. Certainly if you find a 90% silver half in a roll, your margin (ignoring time) is like 90%. But retail buy/sell margins on coins are low. You can't buy Morgan dollars for 70% below retail, for example.
Any dealer with a 50% margin you would consider a crook.
I found a dime in the parking lot. 100% profit! 😀
@jmlanzaf
Hit da Coin Star machine, a silver dime is >100%!
I found a dime in the parking lot. 100% profit! 😀
I’m right! I know I like the coin…….
Well, technically, you can't get more than 100% profit. LOL. But I hear you.
There's a line from "The Color of Money" that applies. "Money won is twice as sweet as money earned." So, "Money found is twice as sweet as money won"?
Pre-Sale raw sets going for $249 at Modern Coin Mart.
ModernCoinMart
They are $200 to $225 on eBay. But the volume is low,
Sure. Literally thousands of RP 70 sets are available for presale at less than 2x issue price, but dealers don't even have confirmed orders, because they are so tough to get in volume from the Mint. They are waiting for us to drop our subs so they can scoop them up on 11/10, whisk them off to the TPGs, and then hope for the best.
Subs killed the flip, even though dealers are pre-selling coins they don't have and have no guarantee of getting? Keep telling yourself that. Price surges in the past were caused by dealers needing to go into the secondary market to buy volume. Not by a ton of individual collectors just needing a hard to get coin on Day One and paying whatever to get it.
The subs solved the problem of the website getting slammed. But the flip is dead because the dealers are now able to buy direct from the Mint, in the quantities they need.
And yes, of course 70s have always been cheaper for bulk submitters. What's different now is that a much higher percentage of the mintage is grading 70, and dealers KNOW this, and aren't merely betting on it, because they have early result from the Advance Releases. Even though you say that's impossible.
Technically? Do you understand how percentages work? What percent is the profit when you make $400 on a $40 investment? Is it more than 100%? You are confusing 100% with infinity. What else are you confused about?
I think the flipping coins from the mint rage is mostly behind us - thoughts?
I really do not understand the Mint on moderns.
They want to create numismatically relevant product without the basic criteria defining numismatics.
Where is the collectibility by dumping product on the market?
How will buyers maintain interest seeing the perceived value dissolve.
Stick to seignorage for profits, educate Congress, limit production. Help the hobby.
You can get more than 100% of your purchase price. I'm referring to the profit margin on the sale price. I sell it for $1000, I pocket $500, my gross profit margin is 50% but my ROI is 100%.
Gross profit margin is defined as 100 times profit/revenue. Profit cannot exceed revenues hence gross margins are capped at 100%
https://personalmba.com/profit-margin/
Glad i could clear up your confusion.
You're welcome.
I like this guy. Fun little video.
Son of a Silver Stacker...."Is The 2023 S Morgan & Peace Dollar 2-Coin Reverse Proof Set Worth Flipping?"
My bad -- I misunderstood and stand corrected. See? It only hurts for a second. You might want to try it sometime. 😀
Yes, but when enough seconds are put together....
It depends...
I do not believe there have been any worthy flip opportunities this year. There may be some in the future.
For example, Taylor Swift does not tour every year but when she does, her ticket prices go to the moon.
The next time the US Mint has a "Swifty" worthy coin...the mint range will be back on!
BST references available on request
Maybe it's just me...but paying roughy $85/silver dollar with a classic design just seems like a better deal than paying $XYZ for a base metal annual proof or mint set...and I still collect those too...for 50 years and counting now!
She needs time off to count her money and break up with her current boyfriend.
@JBK
Then she'll have new material for her next album...
She needs time off to count her money and break up with her current boyfriend.
But the point is, it's not random. There were several releases this year that would have been great flips in years past.
The Mint has actively learned from its mistakes, and is now capturing the lion's share of the value in its popular releases for itself by pricing items close to market, and then minting around as many as the market can easily absorb at the set price. The Advance Release and bulk purchase programs are allowing their largest and best customers to get what they need without having to go into the secondary flip market.
This creates a win-win-win for the Mint, collectors and dealers, at the expense of the flippers. So, in response to @Che_Grapes question, yes, unless something goes seriously awry, the days of easy, lucrative flips are over.
The lotteries nowadays look more like signed Certificates of Authenticity being randomly seeded in shipments unannounced, rather than people killing themselves and each other trying to get one of 1945 special Gold Eagles.
Can you please do me a favor and put the above quote in your signature line.
I'm just curious as to how it may age over time.
Thanks!
BST references available on request
I'm not sure it would age well at all. In a year or two, people won't even remember that risk free doubles and triples from the Mint ever existed.
The Mint was finally figured things out. I'm reasonably sure any mistakes they make will be on the side of making a few too many, like the Morgan and Peace proofs. I just don't see them leaving money on the table and, more importantly, making things difficult for their Big Boy partners, by making too few, or pricing anything too low, and creating a flip for us at the expense of the Big Boys.
RCTV upping the ante....NGC Reverse Proof 70 FDI ...$479.00
RCTV Linky Dinky
The Coin Vault is less, $399.98 for the same, NGC PR70 1st day of issue...
This is actually a very good deal for TV, given that street prices are around $330-350. The RCTV price is more in line with what I'd expect for TV.
Don't forget, while we all think it's a ripoff, TV is a very expensive way to sell anything. Coins are not an exception.
The margins, at either $400 or $480, are actually a lot less than for a large dealer selling on the web or through eBay for $350, when you take into account buying airtime, paying hosts, and production costs, in addition to all the other inventory and shipping costs any other dealer has.
Of course, they make it up in volume, so no one needs to cry for the TV guys. But no one should think they are gouging with their prices. Not on things like this. They are selling into a different market than the one that shops at a coin show, or with their favorite dealer on the web, and the TV distribution model is expensive.
It will probably age pretty well as long as the Mint keeps their current distribution policies.