Me thinks that this thread will not generate as many replies/responses during the finals as it did during the first three rounds of the playoffs, primarily since Boston lost to Miami in the ECF (Sports Forum denizens who are die hard New England sports fans are more vocal on the Sports Forum than other folks ).
In any event the Finals appear to be shaping up to be very interesting.
TV commentators today mentioned that Miami shoots from three quite a bit (with all five players on the floor being a 3 point threat) and that Denver is having trouble defending 3 point shooters for 48 minutes. The difference between game 1 and game 2 is that Miami did not make its 3 point shots in game 1 (about 27% made), while it made its 3 point shots in game 2 (just under 50%).
I Denver happens to win game 3 or 4 in Miami this series will likely go 7 games.
I also understand that game 2 drew about 7 million viewers; and that last year (Boston v. GS) game 2 drew over 11 million viewers. I guess that without glamour franchises (and/or players such as LeBron James, Jason Tatum, Steph Curry, etc.) in the Finals public interest drops off in the NBA product.
It will be interesting to see how the NBA performs in 2023-2024. I expect some player movement between teams, including some high profile players. I do not expect that LeBron James will retire (nothwithstanding the current speculation being floated about same) since he wants to play with his son in the 2024-2025 season and wants to have the chance to win another ring or two. I expect a lot of the younger players (under 28) to make significant strides for increased playing time, with many older players seeing reduced roles. Victor W will be the newest "next big thing" and he will be fascinating to watch.
So can we expect preseason training camp for 2023-2024 to move up to the end of August, with regular season games starting just after labor Day (maybe with an expanded 94 game regular season and/or a mid season break in January during which a 30 team "Tournament" will be held?
@SanctionII said: (Sports Forum denizens who are die hard New England sports fans are more vocal on the Sports Forum than other folks ).
Thats because one of those die hard fans is an NBA junkie 😉 and outside of this playoffs thread there isn't much more action here when it comes to basketball talk. Most of the basketball threads that get posted in the ST forum usually have a negative aspect to them.
As you can still see above,I have no problem rambling on with my thoughts even though my team got sent fishin' for the summer. 😎
In any event the Finals appear to be shaping up to be very interesting.
TV commentators today mentioned that Miami shoots from three quite a bit (with all five players on the floor being a 3 point threat) and that Denver is having trouble defending 3 point shooters for 48 minutes. The difference between game 1 and game 2 is that Miami did not make its 3 point shots in game 1 (about 27% made), while it made its 3 point shots in game 2 (just under 50%).
I Denver happens to win game 3 or 4 in Miami this series will likely go 7 games.
Miami played great last night on both ends and if you can make Jokic one dimensional like that you have a great chance at winning that game.
I picked Denver in 6 but just with the 3pt shot alone having such a huge disparity in winning one night and losing the next depending on whether your 3's fell or not, this series could definitely go longer or even seeing Miami winning.
They're just too good of a team for anyone to still act like they're your average 8th seed when they're not. That was a narrative that espn & tnt had a chance to play up during the entire playoff run.
I'd be happy with 5 more games like last night where the outcome came down to the Final shot.
I also understand that game 2 drew about 7 million viewers; and that last year (Boston v. GS) game 2 drew over 11 million viewers. I guess that without glamour franchises (and/or players such as LeBron James, Jason Tatum, Steph Curry, etc.) in the Finals public interest drops off in the NBA product.
It will be interesting to see how the NBA performs in 2023-2024. I expect some player movement between teams, including some high profile players. I do not expect that LeBron James will retire (nothwithstanding the current speculation being floated about same) since he wants to play with his son in the 2024-2025 season and wants to have the chance to win another ring or two. I expect a lot of the younger players (under 28) to make significant strides for increased playing time, with many older players seeing reduced roles. Victor W will be the newest "next big thing" and he will be fascinating to watch.
Ironically,there was a report earlier today about Kyrie wanting to bring Lebron down to Dallas. I don't see that happening though.
I can't wait to see VW hit the league running. I totally forgot that Tim Duncan is part of Popovich's coaching staff but having Tim work with Wembanyama everyday should have a huge impact on fast he develops in the NBA.
So can we expect preseason training camp for 2023-2024 to move up to the end of August, with regular season games starting just after labor Day (maybe with an expanded 94 game regular season and/or a mid season break in January during which a 30 team "Tournament" will be held?
I'm not on board with this tournament talk but I felt that way about the play-in and it turned out to be a great move by the NBA. Even though a play-in sent my @^%#$* team home for the summer. 🤣
Is it just me or does the Joker not have the funniest method of arguing with the refs? Its the whole leanback and capiche hand gestures that do it for me lol. https://youtu.be/OvYx9AsgqkE
@SanctionII said: (Sports Forum denizens who are die hard New England sports fans are more vocal on the Sports Forum than other folks ).
Thats because one of those die hard fans is an NBA junkie 😉 and outside of this playoffs thread there isn't much more action here when it comes to basketball talk. Most of the basketball threads that get posted in the ST forum usually have a negative aspect to them.
As you can still see above,I have no problem rambling on with my thoughts even though my team got sent fishin' for the summer. 😎
In any event the Finals appear to be shaping up to be very interesting.
TV commentators today mentioned that Miami shoots from three quite a bit (with all five players on the floor being a 3 point threat) and that Denver is having trouble defending 3 point shooters for 48 minutes. The difference between game 1 and game 2 is that Miami did not make its 3 point shots in game 1 (about 27% made), while it made its 3 point shots in game 2 (just under 50%).
I Denver happens to win game 3 or 4 in Miami this series will likely go 7 games.
Miami played great last night on both ends and if you can make Jokic one dimensional like that you have a great chance at winning that game.
I picked Denver in 6 but just with the 3pt shot alone having such a huge disparity in winning one night and losing the next depending on whether your 3's fell or not, this series could definitely go longer or even seeing Miami winning.
They're just too good of a team for anyone to still act like they're your average 8th seed when they're not. That was a narrative that espn & tnt had a chance to play up during the entire playoff run.
I'd be happy with 5 more games like last night where the outcome came down to the Final shot.
I also understand that game 2 drew about 7 million viewers; and that last year (Boston v. GS) game 2 drew over 11 million viewers. I guess that without glamour franchises (and/or players such as LeBron James, Jason Tatum, Steph Curry, etc.) in the Finals public interest drops off in the NBA product.
It will be interesting to see how the NBA performs in 2023-2024. I expect some player movement between teams, including some high profile players. I do not expect that LeBron James will retire (nothwithstanding the current speculation being floated about same) since he wants to play with his son in the 2024-2025 season and wants to have the chance to win another ring or two. I expect a lot of the younger players (under 28) to make significant strides for increased playing time, with many older players seeing reduced roles. Victor W will be the newest "next big thing" and he will be fascinating to watch.
Ironically,there was a report earlier today about Kyrie wanting to bring Lebron down to Dallas. I don't see that happening though.
I can't wait to see VW hit the league running. I totally forgot that Tim Duncan is part of Popovich's coaching staff but having Tim work with Wembanyama everyday should have a huge impact on fast he develops in the NBA.
So can we expect preseason training camp for 2023-2024 to move up to the end of August, with regular season games starting just after labor Day (maybe with an expanded 94 game regular season and/or a mid season break in January during which a 30 team "Tournament" will be held?
I'm not on board with this tournament talk but I felt that way about the play-in and it turned out to be a great move by the NBA. Even though a play-in sent my @^%#$* team home for the summer. 🤣
...
I have only just recently been (self) appointed as the
President of the
Jayson Tatum fanclub.
Needless to say I am 100% against this "tournament".
ETA: I might have to load manage my way through the regular season. I was looking forward to becoming more invested during the regular season, but in all seriousness this tournament thing rubs me the wrong way.
@SanctionII said: (Sports Forum denizens who are die hard New England sports fans are more vocal on the Sports Forum than other folks ).
Thats because one of those die hard fans is an NBA junkie 😉 and outside of this playoffs thread there isn't much more action here when it comes to basketball talk. Most of the basketball threads that get posted in the ST forum usually have a negative aspect to them.
As you can still see above,I have no problem rambling on with my thoughts even though my team got sent fishin' for the summer. 😎
In any event the Finals appear to be shaping up to be very interesting.
TV commentators today mentioned that Miami shoots from three quite a bit (with all five players on the floor being a 3 point threat) and that Denver is having trouble defending 3 point shooters for 48 minutes. The difference between game 1 and game 2 is that Miami did not make its 3 point shots in game 1 (about 27% made), while it made its 3 point shots in game 2 (just under 50%).
I Denver happens to win game 3 or 4 in Miami this series will likely go 7 games.
Miami played great last night on both ends and if you can make Jokic one dimensional like that you have a great chance at winning that game.
I picked Denver in 6 but just with the 3pt shot alone having such a huge disparity in winning one night and losing the next depending on whether your 3's fell or not, this series could definitely go longer or even seeing Miami winning.
They're just too good of a team for anyone to still act like they're your average 8th seed when they're not. That was a narrative that espn & tnt had a chance to play up during the entire playoff run.
I'd be happy with 5 more games like last night where the outcome came down to the Final shot.
I also understand that game 2 drew about 7 million viewers; and that last year (Boston v. GS) game 2 drew over 11 million viewers. I guess that without glamour franchises (and/or players such as LeBron James, Jason Tatum, Steph Curry, etc.) in the Finals public interest drops off in the NBA product.
It will be interesting to see how the NBA performs in 2023-2024. I expect some player movement between teams, including some high profile players. I do not expect that LeBron James will retire (nothwithstanding the current speculation being floated about same) since he wants to play with his son in the 2024-2025 season and wants to have the chance to win another ring or two. I expect a lot of the younger players (under 28) to make significant strides for increased playing time, with many older players seeing reduced roles. Victor W will be the newest "next big thing" and he will be fascinating to watch.
Ironically,there was a report earlier today about Kyrie wanting to bring Lebron down to Dallas. I don't see that happening though.
I can't wait to see VW hit the league running. I totally forgot that Tim Duncan is part of Popovich's coaching staff but having Tim work with Wembanyama everyday should have a huge impact on fast he develops in the NBA.
So can we expect preseason training camp for 2023-2024 to move up to the end of August, with regular season games starting just after labor Day (maybe with an expanded 94 game regular season and/or a mid season break in January during which a 30 team "Tournament" will be held?
I'm not on board with this tournament talk but I felt that way about the play-in and it turned out to be a great move by the NBA. Even though a play-in sent my @^%#$* team home for the summer. 🤣
...
I have only just recently been (self) appointed as the
President of the
Jayson Tatum fanclub.
Needless to say I am 100% against this "tournament".
ETA: I might have to load manage my way through the regular season. I was looking forward to becoming more invested during the regular season, but in all seriousness this tournament thing rubs me the wrong way.
I'm just looking at it from the angle,what would be the motivation for the players? These games would already be counted as regular season games with IIRC the number of games on the schedule getting dropped to 80 but whoever wins the tournament will have played 83 or something like that.
The winners get paid 500K but for many players making anywhere from 5-50M that might not be much motivation for them. Sure,the guys at the back half of most rosters would absolutely love the chance of making an extra 500K but just like the playoffs & Finals, its most likely going to be the best teams winning this tournament. There may be a potential surprise winner every now and then but i'd bet its one of the top 10 contenders that wins it 9 out of 10 times.
10-15 years from now I think that the NBA will transition (via merger or other business arrangement) to the GBA (Global Basketball Association) or IBA (International Basketball Association). The sport of basketball will continue to become more and more popular around the globe.
Players from every continent (except Antarctica, though it would not surprise me to learn that at one or more human outposts in Antarctica there is an indoor basketball gym where scientists and support personnel can shoot hoops) will continue, in greater numbers, to take up the game as 6 year olds, become gym rats and develop the skills to compete at the highest level.
Prior to the late 1960s and early 1970s professional basketball in the USA consisted of predominantly white players born in the USA. In the 1940's, 1950's and part of the 1960's segregation was the norm and black players, at best, were able to fill 2-3 roster spots on an NBA team. Black players born in the USA eventually took up most of the roster spots on NBA and ABA (which started in the 1967-1968 season) teams. The civil rights movement not only changed US society, it also changed basketball.
I recently read a book (Black Ball, by Theresa Runstedtler) about the American born black players (including but not limited to Connie Hawkins, Spencer Haywood, Kareem, Oscar Robertson), who were instrumental in the changing of the game of professional basketball from what it was in the 1960's (team owners drafted players who were then mostly powerless to control their careers due to teams having the ability to prevent players from moving from team to team) to what it became (a player's league with players having bargaining power sufficient to allow them to chart their own course and be in control of their career, financially and otherwise). It is an excellent book and provides a detailed look at things I was aware of when I was a youngster.
In the 1984 24 non US born players had roster spots on NBA teams. In 2019 108 non US born players were on opening day NBA rosters (24% of all roster spots). These 108 players came from 38 different countries.
For the 2022-2023 season a total of 120 non US born players from 40 different countries were on opening night NBA rosters (26.666 % of all roster spots).
25+ years of effort by the NBA to promote basketball on a global scale have borne fruit. The influx of non US born players will continue to increase. The number of NBA players born in the USA will continue to drop (I suspect that this is not and will not be well received by USA born black players who have had the majority of NBA roster spots for 45-50 years).
The outcome of the game going global is that with greater interest in the sport (by global consumers, by players, by coaches, by TV, by radio, by internet providers, by investors who want to own a team, etc.) expansion of the NBA from a North American based sports league to a global league will take place in one form or another. Professional basketball leagues will be tiered, with multiple levels of competition. The future version of today's NBA will be at the top of the pyramid.
Should be fun to watch the future of basketball (at all levels) unfold before our eyes.
Taking things even further, if humans succeed in moving off the earth and establishing a presence on the moon, Mars and other locations in the solar system (for example Jupiter's moon Ganymede), one day we might see sports, including basketball, being played there.
Could you imagine top level basketball players of today (including those with a vertical leap of 44 inches) who play in earth's gravity on a court that measures 94 feet long by 50 feet wide, with the basket being 10 feet above the floor travelling to the moon and playing a game in the moon's 1/10 of earth's gravity?
Would the basket would have to be 100 feet above the floor and would the floor would have to be 940 feet long and 500 feet wide?
@SanctionII said:
10-15 years from now I think that the NBA will transition (via merger or other business arrangement) to the GBA (Global Basketball Association) or IBA (International Basketball Association). The sport of basketball will continue to become more and more popular around the globe.
Players from every continent (except Antarctica, though it would not surprise me to learn that at one or more human outposts in Antarctica there is an indoor basketball gym where scientists and support personnel can shoot hoops) will continue, in greater numbers, to take up the game as 6 year olds, become gym rats and develop the skills to compete at the highest level.
Prior to the late 1960s and early 1970s professional basketball in the USA consisted of predominantly white players born in the USA. In the 1940's, 1950's and part of the 1960's segregation was the norm and black players, at best, were able to fill 2-3 roster spots on an NBA team. Black players born in the USA eventually took up most of the roster spots on NBA and ABA (which started in the 1967-1968 season) teams. The civil rights movement not only changed US society, it also changed basketball.
I recently read a book about the American born black players (including but not limited to Connie Hawkins and Spencer Haywood), who were instrumental in the changing of the game of professional basketball from what it was in the 1960's (team owners drafted players who were then mostly powerless to control their careers due to teams having the ability to prevent players from moving from team to team) to what it became (a player's league with players having bargaining power sufficient to allow them to chart their own course and be in control of their career, financially and otherwise). It is an excellent book and provides a detailed look at things I was aware of when I was a youngster.
In the 1984 24 non US born players had roster spots on NBA teams. In 2019 108 non US born players were on opening day NBA rosters (24% of all roster spots). These 108 players came from 38 different countries.
For the 2022-2023 season a total of 120 non US born players from 40 different countries were on opening night NBA rosters (26.666 % of all roster spots).
25+ years of effort by the NBA to promote basketball on a global scale have borne fruit. The influx of non US born players will continue to increase. The number of NBA players born in the USA will continue to drop (I suspect that this is not and will not be well received by USA born black players who have had the majority of NBA roster spots for 45-50 years).
The outcome of the game going global is that with greater interest in the sport (by global consumers, by players, by coaches, by TV, by radio, by internet providers, by investors who want to own a team, etc.) expansion of the NBA from a North American based sports league to a global league will take place in one form or another. Professional basketball leagues will be tiered, with multiple levels of competition. The future version of today's NBA will be at the top of the pyramid.
Should be fun to watch the future of basketball (at all levels) unfold before our eyes.
Taking things even further, if humans succeed in moving off the earth and establishing a presence on the moon, Mars and other locations in the solar system (for example Jupiter's moon Ganymede), one day we might see sports, including basketball, being played there.
Could you imagine top level basketball players of today (including those with a vertical leap of 44 inches) who play in earth's gravity on a court that measures 94 feet long by 50 feet wide, with the basket being 10 feet above the floor travelling to the moon and playing a game in the moon's 1/10 of earth's gravity?
Would the basket would have to be 100 feet above the floor and would the floor would have to be 940 feet long and 500 feet wide?
Mike drop!!!!!
International players are only going to keep getting better and they're already making a huge mark on the NBA today with
six of the top eight players in the 2022-23 MVP voting were international players.
1. Joel Embiid
2. Nikola Jokic
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo
4. Jayson Tatum
5. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
6. Donovan Mitchell
7. Domantas Sabonis
8. Luka Doncic
If the NBA ever turns into a Global basketball league i expect the in between game travel to be brutal lol.
@SanctionII said:
Could you imagine top level basketball players of today (including those with a vertical leap of 44 inches) who play in earth's gravity on a court that measures 94 feet long by 50 feet wide, with the basket being 10 feet above the floor travelling to the moon and playing a game in the moon's 1/10 of earth's gravity?
@SanctionII What you wrote about the future of the NBA is well thought out and interesting. Thank you. However, while reading it, I could tell that I was having an emotional reaction that was inverse to what you were putting out. I personally don't like much about changes and directions in the world in general, let alone specifically with regard to sports.
@IraHeatBeat
Erik Spoelstra says Tyler Herro "has not been cleared yet" for a return. The team will put him through a contact workout later today to see where he stands in his recovery from his broken hand.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@IraHeatBeat
Erik Spoelstra says Tyler Herro "has not been cleared yet" for a return. The team will put him through a contact workout later today to see where he stands in his recovery from his broken hand.
There's really no need to rush him back when they already stole a game in Denver. Sitting him for G3 gives Herro a couple more days before G4 on friday.
@thisistheshow said:
Barring unforeseen circumstances, Denver should and will win this series.
I agree,I did pick them to win too, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised at all if Miami wins this series. When they're threes are falling they're capable of playing at a very high level,which is the case with most contenders these days.
I'm going with Miami tonight. They've been a great home team over the past two playoff runs when they're not playing Boston. (2-5 at home vs Boston/11-0 against everyone else)
I originally saw this series going Denver winning the first two,Miami winning the next two, then Denver at home in G5 and ending it in Miami in G6. I'm still sticking with Denver in 6 but I think Miami goes up in the series 2-1 tonight.
Chris Paul is about to be waived but even more importantly Zion just revealed he & his GF are about to have their first kid. That would be great news but some porn star then came out saying she & Zion have been getting together and even hints that he was paying for her company. 🤣 https://deadspin.com/twitter-is-dragging-pelicans-zion-williamson-heres-wh-1850516257
I had imagined in Zion's only year at Duke (2018-2019) that he would enter the NBA and quickly become LeBron James, Version 2 (strong, quick, big, durable with a fitness regimen that would keep him at about 260 lbs of unstoppable muscular magnificence).
Alas, twas not to be.
Zion is injury prone and at a very young age (20?) ballooned in weight to the level of Shaq at the end of his playing days. It would not surprise me to learn that Zion tipped/tips the scales at 350+ lbs.
My desire to see Zion going mano a mano with Le Bron (with Le Bron being on the receiving end of Zion bulling his way to the hoop for a layup or dunk, knocking Le Bron into the first row seats without being called for an offensive foul) remains unfulfilled.
It likely will remain unfulfilled next season (due to Zion likely being out and injured again; and even if he is healthy I suspect that the Lakers and Le Bron would avoid having Le Bron be Zion's primary defender to minimize the chances of Le Bron being embarrassed on national TV (I recall that video of Le Bron in an off season pick up game where a high schooler posterized Le Bron with an amazing dunk was quickly sequestered by the powers that be so that it never made its way to the lead video on Sport's Center).
If Zion does not overcome his injury issues (likely due to his excess weight) how much longer do you think he will remain in the NBA?
I doubt Zion will be out of the league anytime soon he's just 22. It really is a shame that he's only played in a 114 games out of a possible 328 since coming to the NBA. When he does play he's a stud averaging 25/7/4 for his career its just you don't know when he'll get hurt or how long he'll be out.
Once his current max deal expires and if he hasn't gained a grip on his weight by then,I think if the injuries keep piling up like they have his career is likely turning into a series of 1yr deals until he shows that he can stay on the floor.
Here's my crazy hot take: Zion & Luka eventually end up in San Antonio with Wemby.
Here's my crazy hot take: Zion & Luka eventually end up in San Antonio with Wemby.
pop just pitched a tent
Watch out now,Fanatics may try turning that tent into a "Game Used" card w/Pop's auto. 😎
When someone goes to grade it would give new meaning to PSA/DNA. 😉
Miami lately has started to trend like Boston had where if they're not shooting their threes at 40% or higher they're likely losing that night. They're currently at 9/27 for 33%.
This morning on the Skip and Shannon show on Fox Sports last night's game was discussed.
Shannon Sharpe stated that Jokic is the currently the best player in the NBA.
Skip disagreed and leans towards Embid as the current best player in the NBA.
Do you agree with Shannon Sharpe?
Is Jokic the best player at this time?
If not, who is?
As for Friday's Game 4, if Denver wins to go up 3-1 I will then believe that Denver will win the title (though it may take 7 games). If Miami wins to even the series at 2-2 then I believe the series will definitely go 7 games (how is that for a BOLD prediction ).
I think that the best player in the NBA discussion comes down to Jokic or Giannis. (For me personally I can't put Embiid in there when he hasn't been able to get his team out of the second round yet.)
While I'd give Giannis the edge on defense,jokic is still great on the defensive boards and is a very competent defender.
Then on the other end,while both can give you 30+ any given night,I'd give the edge to Jokic because of his shooting & passing ability even though Giannis can hit threes and give you 10 assists some nights.
As for who is the better player? i'm ok with letting someone else choose first and I get the guy that remains lol.
You really can't go wrong choosing either player if starting your team.
I've seen some article/video headlines lately asking who is the better player,Jokic or Butler,and what would winning a ring do for their legacies? I didn't actually click on any of those links but have thought about and was thinking about asking for
opinions here.
Right now,I think that Butler is very close but borderline on making the HOF and winning a ring in this series puts him in regardless of what else he does in his career.
For Jokic,I think that he's already done enough for a HOF enshrinement and he falls somewhere in the 8-12 range when talking about top 10 Centers in nba history. If he beats Miami in the next 2 weeks for his first ring, I think he moves up into that 5-8 range on that same list.
Even with this Finals win I'd still put Russell,Kareem,Shaq & Wilt ranked 1-4 but for me, Joker would be in that next group of Moses,Hakeem,Robinson,Ewing & Mikan. How the remainder of his career goes would factor in too but I think he'd have a very hard time cracking that top 4 centers.
Dame Lillard was just asked in an ESPN interview was asked which NBA contender could make him say, ‘that’s not too bad,’” as a possible trade destination if he departs Rip City. (their wording)
His answer...“Miami obviously…Miami is the obvious one. And Bam [Adebayo] is my dog. Bam is my dog for real. Miami is the obvious one. Brooklyn is another obvious one, because Mikal Bridges is my dog too.”
@erikthredd said:
One win away with the next game at home, I have a feeling that the city of Denver will be partying on Monday night.
...
I've enjoyed these playoffs. Well, you know, not the last series, but overall. ..but I agree. Denver in 5
Its gonna be a tough decision picking a FMVP, Jokic & Murray are both playing incredible.
...
You know darn well who's getting it...😂🤷
They are both playing well. And so are a bunch of their other players. Great game tonight from Gordon. He's been great all series. And Brown. Heck, even the other Brown, Braun. He's definitely put in some lunch pail time .
I grew up in Denver and attended pro basketball games in Denver from the late 1960's to the first half of 1978 (The ABA Denver Rockets and the ABA/NBA Denver Nuggets). The last time Denver played for a title was the ABA 1975-1976 season (the last ABA season). Denver (starring David "Luke Skywalker" Thompson) played the New York Nets (starring Dr. J) for the title and lost.
Now 48 years later (and 47 years after joining the NBA) Denver finally is back in the finals and trying to win its first title. Hopefully Denver will win the title tonight on its home floor.
@erikthredd said:
With Miami fighting for their season tonight and Denver fighting for history I think we should get one hell of a game lol.
😉👍
@erikthredd said:
What's the O/U for Nuggets fans in Colorado calling in sick to work tomorrow?
Is tonight the night that this guy finally gets to party?
Jokic can't jump over a nickel, slower than my grandmother, appears out of shape and is without a doubt the best basketball player in the world. He keeps putting up the Wilt type numbers....he just may be the greatest player of all time. He is as skilled as any player in the history of the game. Just amazing.
@Mickey71 said:
Jokic can't jump over a nickel, slower than my grandmother, appears out of shape and is without a doubt the best basketball player in the world. He keeps putting up the Wilt type numbers....he just may be the greatest player of all time. He is as skilled as any player in the history of the game. Just amazing.
Never seen him play. Just looked at his stats and saw he also averaged 9.8 assists pg. WOW!
#LetsGoSwitzerlandThe Man Who Does Not Read Has No Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read. The biggest obstacle to progress is a habit of “buying what we want and begging for what we need.”You get the Freedom you fight for and get the Oppression you deserve.
Credit Denver for hanging in there. Joker has just three FG attempts and three assists, having to sit due to foul trouble sucks but he needs to get going one way or the other. Murray too who is 1-5.
Comments
Me thinks that this thread will not generate as many replies/responses during the finals as it did during the first three rounds of the playoffs, primarily since Boston lost to Miami in the ECF (Sports Forum denizens who are die hard New England sports fans are more vocal on the Sports Forum than other folks
).
In any event the Finals appear to be shaping up to be very interesting.
TV commentators today mentioned that Miami shoots from three quite a bit (with all five players on the floor being a 3 point threat) and that Denver is having trouble defending 3 point shooters for 48 minutes. The difference between game 1 and game 2 is that Miami did not make its 3 point shots in game 1 (about 27% made), while it made its 3 point shots in game 2 (just under 50%).
I Denver happens to win game 3 or 4 in Miami this series will likely go 7 games.
I also understand that game 2 drew about 7 million viewers; and that last year (Boston v. GS) game 2 drew over 11 million viewers. I guess that without glamour franchises (and/or players such as LeBron James, Jason Tatum, Steph Curry, etc.) in the Finals public interest drops off in the NBA product.
It will be interesting to see how the NBA performs in 2023-2024. I expect some player movement between teams, including some high profile players. I do not expect that LeBron James will retire (nothwithstanding the current speculation being floated about same) since he wants to play with his son in the 2024-2025 season and wants to have the chance to win another ring or two. I expect a lot of the younger players (under 28) to make significant strides for increased playing time, with many older players seeing reduced roles. Victor W will be the newest "next big thing" and he will be fascinating to watch.
So can we expect preseason training camp for 2023-2024 to move up to the end of August, with regular season games starting just after labor Day (maybe with an expanded 94 game regular season and/or a mid season break in January during which a 30 team "Tournament" will be held?
Thats because one of those die hard fans is an NBA junkie 😉 and outside of this playoffs thread there isn't much more action here when it comes to basketball talk. Most of the basketball threads that get posted in the ST forum usually have a negative aspect to them.
As you can still see above,I have no problem rambling on with my thoughts even though my team got sent fishin' for the summer. 😎
Miami played great last night on both ends and if you can make Jokic one dimensional like that you have a great chance at winning that game.
I picked Denver in 6 but just with the 3pt shot alone having such a huge disparity in winning one night and losing the next depending on whether your 3's fell or not, this series could definitely go longer or even seeing Miami winning.
They're just too good of a team for anyone to still act like they're your average 8th seed when they're not. That was a narrative that espn & tnt had a chance to play up during the entire playoff run.
I'd be happy with 5 more games like last night where the outcome came down to the Final shot.
Ironically,there was a report earlier today about Kyrie wanting to bring Lebron down to Dallas. I don't see that happening though.
I can't wait to see VW hit the league running. I totally forgot that Tim Duncan is part of Popovich's coaching staff but having Tim work with Wembanyama everyday should have a huge impact on fast he develops in the NBA.
I'm not on board with this tournament talk but I felt that way about the play-in and it turned out to be a great move by the NBA. Even though a play-in sent my @^%#$* team home for the summer. 🤣
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Is it just me or does the Joker not have the funniest method of arguing with the refs? Its the whole leanback and capiche hand gestures that do it for me lol.
https://youtu.be/OvYx9AsgqkE
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
...
I have only just recently been (self) appointed as the
President of the
Jayson Tatum fanclub.
Needless to say I am 100% against this "tournament".
ETA: I might have to load manage my way through the regular season. I was looking forward to becoming more invested during the regular season, but in all seriousness this tournament thing rubs me the wrong way.
I'm just looking at it from the angle,what would be the motivation for the players? These games would already be counted as regular season games with IIRC the number of games on the schedule getting dropped to 80 but whoever wins the tournament will have played 83 or something like that.
The winners get paid 500K but for many players making anywhere from 5-50M that might not be much motivation for them. Sure,the guys at the back half of most rosters would absolutely love the chance of making an extra 500K but just like the playoffs & Finals, its most likely going to be the best teams winning this tournament. There may be a potential surprise winner every now and then but i'd bet its one of the top 10 contenders that wins it 9 out of 10 times.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
10-15 years from now I think that the NBA will transition (via merger or other business arrangement) to the GBA (Global Basketball Association) or IBA (International Basketball Association). The sport of basketball will continue to become more and more popular around the globe.
Players from every continent (except Antarctica, though it would not surprise me to learn that at one or more human outposts in Antarctica there is an indoor basketball gym where scientists and support personnel can shoot hoops) will continue, in greater numbers, to take up the game as 6 year olds, become gym rats and develop the skills to compete at the highest level.
Prior to the late 1960s and early 1970s professional basketball in the USA consisted of predominantly white players born in the USA. In the 1940's, 1950's and part of the 1960's segregation was the norm and black players, at best, were able to fill 2-3 roster spots on an NBA team. Black players born in the USA eventually took up most of the roster spots on NBA and ABA (which started in the 1967-1968 season) teams. The civil rights movement not only changed US society, it also changed basketball.
I recently read a book (Black Ball, by Theresa Runstedtler) about the American born black players (including but not limited to Connie Hawkins, Spencer Haywood, Kareem, Oscar Robertson), who were instrumental in the changing of the game of professional basketball from what it was in the 1960's (team owners drafted players who were then mostly powerless to control their careers due to teams having the ability to prevent players from moving from team to team) to what it became (a player's league with players having bargaining power sufficient to allow them to chart their own course and be in control of their career, financially and otherwise). It is an excellent book and provides a detailed look at things I was aware of when I was a youngster.
In the 1984 24 non US born players had roster spots on NBA teams. In 2019 108 non US born players were on opening day NBA rosters (24% of all roster spots). These 108 players came from 38 different countries.
For the 2022-2023 season a total of 120 non US born players from 40 different countries were on opening night NBA rosters (26.666 % of all roster spots).
25+ years of effort by the NBA to promote basketball on a global scale have borne fruit. The influx of non US born players will continue to increase. The number of NBA players born in the USA will continue to drop (I suspect that this is not and will not be well received by USA born black players who have had the majority of NBA roster spots for 45-50 years).
The outcome of the game going global is that with greater interest in the sport (by global consumers, by players, by coaches, by TV, by radio, by internet providers, by investors who want to own a team, etc.) expansion of the NBA from a North American based sports league to a global league will take place in one form or another. Professional basketball leagues will be tiered, with multiple levels of competition. The future version of today's NBA will be at the top of the pyramid.
Should be fun to watch the future of basketball (at all levels) unfold before our eyes.
Taking things even further, if humans succeed in moving off the earth and establishing a presence on the moon, Mars and other locations in the solar system (for example Jupiter's moon Ganymede), one day we might see sports, including basketball, being played there.
Could you imagine top level basketball players of today (including those with a vertical leap of 44 inches) who play in earth's gravity on a court that measures 94 feet long by 50 feet wide, with the basket being 10 feet above the floor travelling to the moon and playing a game in the moon's 1/10 of earth's gravity?
Would the basket would have to be 100 feet above the floor and would the floor would have to be 940 feet long and 500 feet wide?
Mike drop!!!!!
International players are only going to keep getting better and they're already making a huge mark on the NBA today with
six of the top eight players in the 2022-23 MVP voting were international players.
1. Joel Embiid
2. Nikola Jokic
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo
4. Jayson Tatum
5. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
6. Donovan Mitchell
7. Domantas Sabonis
8. Luka Doncic
If the NBA ever turns into a Global basketball league i expect the in between game travel to be brutal lol.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Of course I can, i've seen Space Jam 1 & 2. 😎
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
@SanctionII What you wrote about the future of the NBA is well thought out and interesting. Thank you. However, while reading it, I could tell that I was having an emotional reaction that was inverse to what you were putting out. I personally don't like much about changes and directions in the world in general, let alone specifically with regard to sports.
outstanding post by sanction
the gerbil is going bananas on its wheel in my head
can you imagine how much you'd have to pony up for tickets to a new orleans pelicans @ ganymede gamma rays game on stub hub
then two more away games
@mars bars
@moon patrol
talk about a hell of a road trip
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
From galaxy27 we have a most "Stellar"
reply.
@IraHeatBeat
Erik Spoelstra says Tyler Herro "has not been cleared yet" for a return. The team will put him through a contact workout later today to see where he stands in his recovery from his broken hand.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
There's really no need to rush him back when they already stole a game in Denver. Sitting him for G3 gives Herro a couple more days before G4 on friday.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Barring unforeseen circumstances, Denver should and will win this series.
I agree,I did pick them to win too, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised at all if Miami wins this series. When they're threes are falling they're capable of playing at a very high level,which is the case with most contenders these days.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Who wins Game 5 tonight.
Can the Nuggets stand the Heat; or will the Heat melt the Nuggets?
I'm going with Miami tonight. They've been a great home team over the past two playoff runs when they're not playing Boston. (2-5 at home vs Boston/11-0 against everyone else)
I originally saw this series going Denver winning the first two,Miami winning the next two, then Denver at home in G5 and ending it in Miami in G6. I'm still sticking with Denver in 6 but I think Miami goes up in the series 2-1 tonight.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I like the Heat tonight, although a bit hesitant. Game 5 is on Channel 5 here in Cleveland - coincidence?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
...
You guys are dying for me to say it's game 3, right? 😂
Chris Paul is about to be waived but even more importantly Zion just revealed he & his GF are about to have their first kid. That would be great news but some porn star then came out saying she & Zion have been getting together and even hints that he was paying for her company. 🤣
https://deadspin.com/twitter-is-dragging-pelicans-zion-williamson-heres-wh-1850516257
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I had imagined in Zion's only year at Duke (2018-2019) that he would enter the NBA and quickly become LeBron James, Version 2 (strong, quick, big, durable with a fitness regimen that would keep him at about 260 lbs of unstoppable muscular magnificence).
Alas, twas not to be.
Zion is injury prone and at a very young age (20?) ballooned in weight to the level of Shaq at the end of his playing days. It would not surprise me to learn that Zion tipped/tips the scales at 350+ lbs.
My desire to see Zion going mano a mano with Le Bron (with Le Bron being on the receiving end of Zion bulling his way to the hoop for a layup or dunk, knocking Le Bron into the first row seats without being called for an offensive foul) remains unfulfilled.
It likely will remain unfulfilled next season (due to Zion likely being out and injured again; and even if he is healthy I suspect that the Lakers and Le Bron would avoid having Le Bron be Zion's primary defender to minimize the chances of Le Bron being embarrassed on national TV (I recall that video of Le Bron in an off season pick up game where a high schooler posterized Le Bron with an amazing dunk was quickly sequestered by the powers that be so that it never made its way to the lead video on Sport's Center).
If Zion does not overcome his injury issues (likely due to his excess weight) how much longer do you think he will remain in the NBA?
I doubt Zion will be out of the league anytime soon he's just 22. It really is a shame that he's only played in a 114 games out of a possible 328 since coming to the NBA. When he does play he's a stud averaging 25/7/4 for his career its just you don't know when he'll get hurt or how long he'll be out.
Once his current max deal expires and if he hasn't gained a grip on his weight by then,I think if the injuries keep piling up like they have his career is likely turning into a series of 1yr deals until he shows that he can stay on the floor.
Here's my crazy hot take: Zion & Luka eventually end up in San Antonio with Wemby.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
pop just pitched a tent
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Watch out now,Fanatics may try turning that tent into a "Game Used" card w/Pop's auto. 😎
When someone goes to grade it would give new meaning to PSA/DNA. 😉
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Miami lately has started to trend like Boston had where if they're not shooting their threes at 40% or higher they're likely losing that night. They're currently at 9/27 for 33%.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
This is why you don't listen to me when placing bets lol.
Great bounceback win by Denver. 32/21/10 from Joker & 34/10/10 from Murray, their rookies must be on fire right now.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
This morning on the Skip and Shannon show on Fox Sports last night's game was discussed.
Shannon Sharpe stated that Jokic is the currently the best player in the NBA.
Skip disagreed and leans towards Embid as the current best player in the NBA.
Do you agree with Shannon Sharpe?
Is Jokic the best player at this time?
If not, who is?
As for Friday's Game 4, if Denver wins to go up 3-1 I will then believe that Denver will win the title (though it may take 7 games). If Miami wins to even the series at 2-2 then I believe the series will definitely go 7 games (how is that for a BOLD prediction
).
I think that the best player in the NBA discussion comes down to Jokic or Giannis. (For me personally I can't put Embiid in there when he hasn't been able to get his team out of the second round yet.)
While I'd give Giannis the edge on defense,jokic is still great on the defensive boards and is a very competent defender.
Then on the other end,while both can give you 30+ any given night,I'd give the edge to Jokic because of his shooting & passing ability even though Giannis can hit threes and give you 10 assists some nights.
As for who is the better player? i'm ok with letting someone else choose first and I get the guy that remains lol.
You really can't go wrong choosing either player if starting your team.
I've seen some article/video headlines lately asking who is the better player,Jokic or Butler,and what would winning a ring do for their legacies? I didn't actually click on any of those links but have thought about and was thinking about asking for
opinions here.
Right now,I think that Butler is very close but borderline on making the HOF and winning a ring in this series puts him in regardless of what else he does in his career.
For Jokic,I think that he's already done enough for a HOF enshrinement and he falls somewhere in the 8-12 range when talking about top 10 Centers in nba history. If he beats Miami in the next 2 weeks for his first ring, I think he moves up into that 5-8 range on that same list.
Even with this Finals win I'd still put Russell,Kareem,Shaq & Wilt ranked 1-4 but for me, Joker would be in that next group of Moses,Hakeem,Robinson,Ewing & Mikan. How the remainder of his career goes would factor in too but I think he'd have a very hard time cracking that top 4 centers.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Dame Lillard was just asked in an ESPN interview was asked which NBA contender could make him say, ‘that’s not too bad,’” as a possible trade destination if he departs Rip City. (their wording)
His answer...“Miami obviously…Miami is the obvious one. And Bam [Adebayo] is my dog. Bam is my dog for real. Miami is the obvious one. Brooklyn is another obvious one, because Mikal Bridges is my dog too.”
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Nikola Jokic & Jamal Murray are putting up some historic stats lately.
Games with 30 points, 20 rebounds & 10 assists
NBA Postseason History
Jokic 3
Rest of NBA 2 (Karrem & Wilt one time each)
Murray became the first player in NBA history to have 10 or more assists in each of his first 3 career Finals games.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
One win away with the next game at home, I have a feeling that the city of Denver will be partying on Monday night.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
...
I've enjoyed these playoffs. Well, you know, not the last series, but overall. ..but I agree. Denver in 5
Its gonna be a tough decision picking a FMVP, Jokic & Murray are both playing incredible.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
...
You know darn well who's getting it...😂🤷
They are both playing well. And so are a bunch of their other players. Great game tonight from Gordon. He's been great all series. And Brown. Heck, even the other Brown, Braun. He's definitely put in some lunch pail time .
This year's NBA title most likely will ascend to a higher level, one it's never been at before.
Namely to the rarefied air a mile high above sea level.
Denver's played a great game yesterday.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
What's the O/U for Nuggets fans in Colorado calling in sick to work tomorrow?
Is tonight the night that this guy finally gets to party?
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I grew up in Denver and attended pro basketball games in Denver from the late 1960's to the first half of 1978 (The ABA Denver Rockets and the ABA/NBA Denver Nuggets). The last time Denver played for a title was the ABA 1975-1976 season (the last ABA season). Denver (starring David "Luke Skywalker" Thompson) played the New York Nets (starring Dr. J) for the title and lost.
Now 48 years later (and 47 years after joining the NBA) Denver finally is back in the finals and trying to win its first title. Hopefully Denver will win the title tonight on its home floor.
With Miami fighting for their season tonight and Denver fighting for history I think we should get one hell of a game lol.
😉👍
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
..
Yes. He parties tonight. Without question.
Jokic can't jump over a nickel, slower than my grandmother, appears out of shape and is without a doubt the best basketball player in the world. He keeps putting up the Wilt type numbers....he just may be the greatest player of all time. He is as skilled as any player in the history of the game. Just amazing.
Never seen him play. Just looked at his stats and saw he also averaged 9.8 assists pg. WOW!
I can't see how Miami wins this game tonight.....Cue the dancing girls!!!!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Looks like Tyler Herro will play tonight.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Could actually be a hindrance............and then also Miami has Kevin Love wife giving birth on Saturday....... we shall see.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Denver already has three bigs with 2 fouls each,its going to be one of those nights
edit: one of those bigs now has 3 and the 1st quarter hasn't ended yet.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Wow! Heck of a first quarter.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I'm guessing the refs can't keep Miami in this for the entire game .................
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Credit Denver for hanging in there. Joker has just three FG attempts and three assists, having to sit due to foul trouble sucks but he needs to get going one way or the other. Murray too who is 1-5.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Denver 1 of 15 from 3 - There it is............
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"