@Goldbully said:
My Director's Strike Peace $1 is still in the OGP.
These ladies were sent to our host.....Aren't they purdy?
Very nice Goldbully!
Can a normal collector who buys just one or two coins when ordering directly from the mint send there order to a tpg when ordering? Entering there address as the delivery address. Do the tpg’s except them when you do an online submission form and send directly from the mint is what I am asking.
@Goldbully said:
My Director's Strike Peace $1 is still in the OGP.
These ladies were sent to our host.....Aren't they purdy?
Very nice Goldbully!
Can a normal collector who buys just one or two coins when ordering directly from the mint send there order to a tpg when ordering? Entering there address as the delivery address. Do the tpg’s except them when you do an online submission form and send directly from the mint is what I am asking.
Thank you.
If you're asking will the Mint drop ship to a tpg and the tpg accept the shipment, the answer is no.
You must ship the coins from home, business, or tpg dealer.
Yes, that’s what I was asking. I was just curious is all. So pcgs members can’t as well I’m guessing. Authorized dealers or personally from home or business.
PCGS and NGC updated their pop reports today. Still early, but the 6th column is beginning to reveal the rate of 70s for collector submissions for the unc. The pop numbers are too small to tell on the proofs.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Am I reading the chart above correctly where pcgs has a proof 70 grade thru rate on Morgans at 60% and peace at 42% for non-min grade 70 bulk submissions?
That’s insane if those numbers hold. Prices will skyrocket for pcgs proof 70s.
Yes, that’s what I was asking. I was just curious is all. So pcgs members can’t as well I’m guessing. Authorized dealers or personally from home or business.
Correct. Huge mega-dealers can and do drop ship. Retail customers cannot. And, you need to be a member to be able to directly send them anything at all. Otherwise you have to go through a dealer.
@1madman said:
Am I reading the chart above correctly where pcgs has a proof 70 grade thru rate on Morgans at 60% and peace at 42% for non-min grade 70 bulk submissions?
That’s insane if those numbers hold. Prices will skyrocket for pcgs proof 70s.
Edit: I misread the question.
New reply: The "non-min grade 70 bulk submissions" would fall into the FDOI and Advanced Release labels. The rate of 70s for the FDOI and Advance Release is 99.9% for both the Morgan proofs and Peace proofs (column 4). At this point, 89% and 88% of the total graded population is FDOI/Advanced Release labels. (big boy submissions)
Original reply: Those 70 rates are based on a total of only 227 base label and Frist Strike label Morgan proofs, and 196 Peace proof. The rate of 70 in those submissions was unfortunate for those submitters. However, as I wrote, these proof pops are too small to draw any conclusions. I think that the 70 rate not likely hold there, and quite likely quickly come up into the high 80% / low 90% rate of 70s as more submissions are graded.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@Goldbully said:
POP Report as of August 17, 2023.
Has there ever been a modern issue with such a high percentage of 70's?
At a similar time in the grading cycle / similar total populations, these 2023 Morgan and Peace uncs have a higher rate of 70s than any of the 2021 Morgan and Peace uncs. For example, when the 2021-S Morgan had a total pop of 12,666, the 70 rate was 85% (and it had the highest rate of 70s). Yes, 2023 Morgan and Peace uncs are grading 70 at a higher rate than the 2021 Morgan and Peace uncs.
.
However, the rate of 70s for the 2021 Morgan and Peace uncs dropped as the total pop climbed over months - due to collector submissions diluting down the initial 'minimum grade 70' submissions of the big boys. And so too, will we see the same with these 2023 issues. In fact, it can already be seen. Three weeks ago, the rate of 70s was 96.2% for the Morgan uncs, and 95.3% for the Peace uncs....with FDOI and Advance Release labels (the big boys) occupying 68% and 67% of the total graded populations. As of yesterday, the rate of 70s had fallen to 94.9% for the Morgan uncs, and 92.7% for the Peace uncs....with FDOI and Advance Release labels (the big boys) diluted down to 57% and 56% of the total graded populations. This "dilution effect" will continue as collector submissions continue to flow in (base label and First Strike 70 rate only 89% and 87% for the Morgan and Peace unc, respectively). Imagine when the base label and First Strike submissions (collector submissions) push the initial FDOI/AR labels to progressively less than 50% of the total grade population.
.
I estimate that 2023 Morgan and Peace unc total rate of 70s will end up 2-5% lower a year from now than where it is now.
.
Graph of what was seen with the 2021 Morgan and Peace issues over their first year and a half...because of the dilution effect:
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Now I am really curious . Got my two proof Morgan’s today. Same cryptic numbers as on the Peace label I received a week ago. Exact same formed characters, exact same location, exact same size and color pen. Can I get a label for specially marked shipping label on a mint box?
Box looks pristine. No other dings or marks and neatly taped shut. Should get a USPS 70 Late Delivery label.😂
See picture below.
This is not even close to my zip code or house number
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Me thinks somebody in the USPS system is indicating which bin etc. to sort the boxes into...I occasionally have similar scrawls on my boxes from the Post Office.
The proofs are amazing! I am conflicted because I prefer the Peace dollar over the Morgan for business strike coins… but the Morgan just looks better with the cameo.
so I received 3 of each. I may be the oddball here, but I personally did not like the look. I guess that I have looked at so many of the original strikes from the original mints, I got to use to that look.
I mean I see the quality, just can't get use to the look...
@HATTRICK said:
Now I am really curious . Got my two proof Morgan’s today. Same cryptic numbers as on the Peace label I received a week ago. Exact same formed characters, exact same location, exact same size and color pen. Can I get a label for specially marked shipping label on a mint box?
Box looks pristine. No other dings or marks and neatly taped shut. Should get a USPS 70 grade.😂
See picture below.
This is not even close to my zip code or house number
@Joe_360 said:
so I received 3 of each. I may be the oddball here, but I personally did not like the look. I guess that I have looked at so many of the original strikes from the original mints, I got to use to that look.
I mean I see the quality, just can't get use to the look...
Well Joe, just wait till late November when the RP is revealed!!! It'll be a shocking look to a familiar design!!!!!
I am sure it's just a USPS code somewhere along the line. The Box looks pristine. No other dings or marks and neatly taped shut. Should get a USPS 70 Late Delivery label.😂 No time for the trip to P.O. now. Eye DR. tomorrow, Dentist Tuesday.
I was in the hospital Memorial Day weekend with blood pressure of 195/131 in hypertensive crisis and acute heart failure for the second time with ejection fraction of only 20%. More doctors visits and test in the next few weeks. Survived it 20 years ago and will again this time. I am not worried as only the good die young.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@HATTRICK said:
I am sure it's just a USPS code somewhere along the line. The Box looks pristine. No other dings or marks and neatly taped shut. Should get a USPS 70 Late Delivery label.😂 No time for the trip to P.O. now. Eye DR. tomorrow, Dentist Tuesday.
I was in the hospital Memorial Day weekend with blood pressure of 195/131 in hypertensive crisis and acute heart failure for the second time with ejection fraction of only 20%. More doctors visits and test in the next few weeks. Survived it 20 years ago and will again this time. I am not worried as only the good die young.
Wow. Best wished to you, HATTRICK. You need to go lie on a beach somewhere and erase all thoughts of the Mint's quality control division from your mind!
@Aspie_Rocco said:
The proofs are amazing! I am conflicted because I prefer the Peace dollar over the Morgan for business strike coins… but the Morgan just looks better with the cameo.
I prefer the Peace, too, in any strike. I have an affection for that coin because my grandparents used to give me Peace dollars when I was a little kid. It was my first introduction to coins. I wish I still had them. However, at that time they were just a "silver dollar" to me, to be used like a paper dollar. But, of course I saved them until I guess I didn't.
@johnny010 said:
My six peace dollars just showed up five days late. My wife opened the box by accident since we are in the middle of a move.
My understanding is I cannot get first strike anymore since she opened the box, is that correct? If so, should I return the order?
As long as they are submitted before the 30 day deadline, the box can be opened.
Great
Crisis averted.
What was all the talk about not opening / opening boxes looking for the directors strike card? Sounds like there would have been no reason not to open and look.
What was all the talk about not opening / opening boxes looking for the directors strike card? Sounds like there would have been no reason not to open and look.
FS is different from the COA program.
PCGS requires sealed packaging to encapsulate a 'serialized/signed' COA. Reference
Once you opened the package to check for the Director's COA, you lost the option of encapsulating it, if one was present.
@johnny010 said:
My six peace dollars just showed up five days late. My wife opened the box by accident since we are in the middle of a move.
My understanding is I cannot get first strike anymore since she opened the box, is that correct? If so, should I return the order?
As long as they are submitted before the 30 day deadline, the box can be opened.
Great
Crisis averted.
What was all the talk about not opening / opening boxes looking for the directors strike card? Sounds like there would have been no reason not to open and look.
You can't get the director's strike card slabbed if it was open
@johnny010 said:
My six peace dollars just showed up five days late. My wife opened the box by accident since we are in the middle of a move.
My understanding is I cannot get first strike anymore since she opened the box, is that correct? If so, should I return the order?
As long as they are submitted before the 30 day deadline, the box can be opened.
Great
Crisis averted.
What was all the talk about not opening / opening boxes looking for the directors strike card? Sounds like there would have been no reason not to open and look.
You can't get the director's strike card slabbed if it was open
Good deal
There was not one in with the Peace order so I’m still good for FS.
@johnny010 said:
My six peace dollars just showed up five days late. My wife opened the box by accident since we are in the middle of a move.
My understanding is I cannot get first strike anymore since she opened the box, is that correct? If so, should I return the order?
As long as they are submitted before the 30 day deadline, the box can be opened.
Great
Crisis averted.
What was all the talk about not opening / opening boxes looking for the directors strike card? Sounds like there would have been no reason not to open and look.
You can't get the director's strike card slabbed if it was open
Good deal
There was not one in with the Peace order so I’m still good for FS.
Off they go.
FWIW, there are no Director Strike COA's to be found in the proof Peace $1 Mint box.
For those submitting for the First Strike label -- and in my case, submitting items to PCGS for the first time -- what is the service level you choose? Modern Value? And if I understand correctly you have to designate First Strike as an option and then also include "First Strike #2" in the notes if you want the special label (in addition to the designation). Anything else one needs to know?
Collecting: Cents, Dansco 7070, Half Dollars, 1947, 1976, random pieces I like My PCGS Registry
@harlan said:
For those submitting for the First Strike label -- and in my case, submitting items to PCGS for the first time -- what is the service level you choose? Modern Value? And if I understand correctly you have to designate First Strike as an option and then also include "First Strike #2" in the notes if you want the special label (in addition to the designation). Anything else one needs to know?
Coin Packaging (to PCGS): raw coins, shipped in their Mint capsules to avoid handling, can be 'submitted/mailed' prior to the cutoff date of 9/8/23. After the cutoff date, a sealed Mint box would need to be 'submitted/mailed' to get the designation. Reference
Service Group (Section #3): if you want Gold Shield, with TrueView images included at no additional cost, select GS and add $5 per coin.
Service Level (Section #6): most economical = "Modern Value" ($300 max coin value; $17 grading fee). Reference
First Strike (Section #7): check the FS box in the "add-on services" column. Cost = $18 per coin. Your info on the "FS Flag Label" is correct. Reference
Had 4 sealed boxes on my desk for nearly a week and took some time this weekend to examine them at my leisure,..which I haven't done with a new Mint product in quite some time.
Can't swear that I can absolutely tell the difference between a 69 or a 70...but I'm sure there's a mix of both in there...and that's just fine.
I also finally looked at the two I bought and feel the proofs have an exceptional polished mirror finish. I did see a small pit or dent about the size a fine point ball point pen would cause if poked into the field on one, but the mirror fields are remarkable.
I do think the laser etching for the cameo is a bit overdone and covers up some of the detail, but this is their intended result. I had already preordered graded 70's, but I did want a couple extras to study in hand. The RP's should be amazing.
I received four peace proofs. I would grade only one of the four as a 70, the other as a 69. One had a small strike through. I'm OK with this, because I don't expect everything that I receive from the mint to be 70.
.
They will all go in for grading and encapsulation, but only one of them in a single coin holder. The other three are going in for dual coin holders..... one paired with a 1923 Peace dollar, one with a 2023 Morgan proof, and one with a 2023 Peace RP.
.
With early population data, it appears the Peace proof, like the Peace unc, will have a lower rate of 70s at the TPGs than the Morgan prf& uncs.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Comments
Very nice Goldbully!
Can a normal collector who buys just one or two coins when ordering directly from the mint send there order to a tpg when ordering? Entering there address as the delivery address. Do the tpg’s except them when you do an online submission form and send directly from the mint is what I am asking.
Thank you.
If you're asking will the Mint drop ship to a tpg and the tpg accept the shipment, the answer is no.
You must ship the coins from home, business, or tpg dealer.
Is that what you're asking?
@Goldbully
Yes, that’s what I was asking. I was just curious is all. So pcgs members can’t as well I’m guessing. Authorized dealers or personally from home or business.
PCGS and NGC updated their pop reports today. Still early, but the 6th column is beginning to reveal the rate of 70s for collector submissions for the unc. The pop numbers are too small to tell on the proofs.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Am I reading the chart above correctly where pcgs has a proof 70 grade thru rate on Morgans at 60% and peace at 42% for non-min grade 70 bulk submissions?
That’s insane if those numbers hold. Prices will skyrocket for pcgs proof 70s.
Did either of the proofs have a "golden ticket"? Lost track of things over the last week or so.
Successful transactions with forum members commoncents05, dmarks, Coinscratch, Bullsitter, DCW, TwoSides2aCoin, Namvet69 (facilitated for 3rd party), Tetromibi, ProfLizMay, MASSU2, MWallace, Bruce7789, Twobitcollector, 78saen, U1chicago
Not that we've heard
Thanks!
Everything but the Morgan uncirculated up this morning.
Successful transactions with forum members commoncents05, dmarks, Coinscratch, Bullsitter, DCW, TwoSides2aCoin, Namvet69 (facilitated for 3rd party), Tetromibi, ProfLizMay, MASSU2, MWallace, Bruce7789, Twobitcollector, 78saen, U1chicago
POP Report as of August 17, 2023.
Has there ever been a modern issue with such a high percentage of 70's?
I'm thinking CNC machining and laser technology is taking some of the sport out of the game.
94.9% MS70
92.6% MS70
95.9% PR70DCAM
94.1% PR70DCAM
Correct. Huge mega-dealers can and do drop ship. Retail customers cannot. And, you need to be a member to be able to directly send them anything at all. Otherwise you have to go through a dealer.
You've still got pop dominated by the 70 only submissions. [Look at the advanced releases.]
The number will come down.
Edit: I misread the question.
New reply: The "non-min grade 70 bulk submissions" would fall into the FDOI and Advanced Release labels. The rate of 70s for the FDOI and Advance Release is 99.9% for both the Morgan proofs and Peace proofs (column 4). At this point, 89% and 88% of the total graded population is FDOI/Advanced Release labels. (big boy submissions)
Original reply: Those 70 rates are based on a total of only 227 base label and Frist Strike label Morgan proofs, and 196 Peace proof. The rate of 70 in those submissions was unfortunate for those submitters. However, as I wrote, these proof pops are too small to draw any conclusions. I think that the 70 rate not likely hold there, and quite likely quickly come up into the high 80% / low 90% rate of 70s as more submissions are graded.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
At a similar time in the grading cycle / similar total populations, these 2023 Morgan and Peace uncs have a higher rate of 70s than any of the 2021 Morgan and Peace uncs. For example, when the 2021-S Morgan had a total pop of 12,666, the 70 rate was 85% (and it had the highest rate of 70s). Yes, 2023 Morgan and Peace uncs are grading 70 at a higher rate than the 2021 Morgan and Peace uncs.
.
However, the rate of 70s for the 2021 Morgan and Peace uncs dropped as the total pop climbed over months - due to collector submissions diluting down the initial 'minimum grade 70' submissions of the big boys. And so too, will we see the same with these 2023 issues. In fact, it can already be seen. Three weeks ago, the rate of 70s was 96.2% for the Morgan uncs, and 95.3% for the Peace uncs....with FDOI and Advance Release labels (the big boys) occupying 68% and 67% of the total graded populations. As of yesterday, the rate of 70s had fallen to 94.9% for the Morgan uncs, and 92.7% for the Peace uncs....with FDOI and Advance Release labels (the big boys) diluted down to 57% and 56% of the total graded populations. This "dilution effect" will continue as collector submissions continue to flow in (base label and First Strike 70 rate only 89% and 87% for the Morgan and Peace unc, respectively). Imagine when the base label and First Strike submissions (collector submissions) push the initial FDOI/AR labels to progressively less than 50% of the total grade population.
.
I estimate that 2023 Morgan and Peace unc total rate of 70s will end up 2-5% lower a year from now than where it is now.
.
Graph of what was seen with the 2021 Morgan and Peace issues over their first year and a half...because of the dilution effect:
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@Goldbully
Thank you for the clarification. I have only gone to shows and made my submission. I am a member but have not mailed any in that way as of yet.
Now I am really curious . Got my two proof Morgan’s today. Same cryptic numbers as on the Peace label I received a week ago. Exact same formed characters, exact same location, exact same size and color pen. Can I get a label for specially marked shipping label on a mint box?
Box looks pristine. No other dings or marks and neatly taped shut. Should get a USPS 70 Late Delivery label.😂
See picture below.
This is not even close to my zip code or house number
Pretty sure that's just markings the post office writes on things to get it to you better.
Hattrick:
Me thinks somebody in the USPS system is indicating which bin etc. to sort the boxes into...I occasionally have similar scrawls on my boxes from the Post Office.
Those numbers might be the route number of the postman
The proofs are amazing! I am conflicted because I prefer the Peace dollar over the Morgan for business strike coins… but the Morgan just looks better with the cameo.
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
so I received 3 of each. I may be the oddball here, but I personally did not like the look. I guess that I have looked at so many of the original strikes from the original mints, I got to use to that look.
I mean I see the quality, just can't get use to the look...
Go to the post office and ask them.
Well Joe, just wait till late November when the RP is revealed!!! It'll be a shocking look to a familiar design!!!!!
RP will definitely not be your great grandfather's Morgan...or your grandfather's Peace Dollar!!!
Question to the audience...have any of the 2021 or 2023 Unc issues been designated as PL by the TPGs?
I looked around quickly but didn't see any being offered.
And, if not, how did none of those dies "accidentally" produce any PL finishes???
Quality control?
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
I am sure it's just a USPS code somewhere along the line. The Box looks pristine. No other dings or marks and neatly taped shut. Should get a USPS 70 Late Delivery label.😂 No time for the trip to P.O. now. Eye DR. tomorrow, Dentist Tuesday.
I was in the hospital Memorial Day weekend with blood pressure of 195/131 in hypertensive crisis and acute heart failure for the second time with ejection fraction of only 20%. More doctors visits and test in the next few weeks. Survived it 20 years ago and will again this time. I am not worried as only the good die young.
acute heart failure for the second time
That sounds about as serious as it gets.....take care, get well, and feel better.
Wow. Best wished to you, HATTRICK. You need to go lie on a beach somewhere and erase all thoughts of the Mint's quality control division from your mind!
I prefer the Peace, too, in any strike. I have an affection for that coin because my grandparents used to give me Peace dollars when I was a little kid. It was my first introduction to coins. I wish I still had them. However, at that time they were just a "silver dollar" to me, to be used like a paper dollar. But, of course I saved them until I guess I didn't.
The coins had somewhat of a satin/burnish style finish which prevented PL surfaces.
Die preparation precludes PL finishes.
Today, for the first time since release day, the mint is showing few Peace proofs available for purchase than Morgan proofs.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
My six peace dollars just showed up five days late. My wife opened the box by accident since we are in the middle of a move.
My understanding is I cannot get first strike anymore since she opened the box, is that correct? If so, should I return the order?
As long as they are submitted before the 30 day deadline, the box can be opened.
You have until September 8, 2023 to submit to PCGS for a First Strike attribution without a sealed Mint box.
Great
Crisis averted.
What was all the talk about not opening / opening boxes looking for the directors strike card? Sounds like there would have been no reason not to open and look.
FS is different from the COA program.
PCGS requires sealed packaging to encapsulate a 'serialized/signed' COA. Reference
Once you opened the package to check for the Director's COA, you lost the option of encapsulating it, if one was present.
You can't get the director's strike card slabbed if it was open
Good deal
There was not one in with the Peace order so I’m still good for FS.
Off they go.
FWIW, there are no Director Strike COA's to be found in the proof Peace $1 Mint box.
For those submitting for the First Strike label -- and in my case, submitting items to PCGS for the first time -- what is the service level you choose? Modern Value? And if I understand correctly you have to designate First Strike as an option and then also include "First Strike #2" in the notes if you want the special label (in addition to the designation). Anything else one needs to know?
Collecting: Cents, Dansco 7070, Half Dollars, 1947, 1976, random pieces I like
My PCGS Registry
Assumption: coins are 23XF and 23XL.
Coin Packaging (to PCGS): raw coins, shipped in their Mint capsules to avoid handling, can be 'submitted/mailed' prior to the cutoff date of 9/8/23. After the cutoff date, a sealed Mint box would need to be 'submitted/mailed' to get the designation. Reference
Service Group (Section #3): if you want Gold Shield, with TrueView images included at no additional cost, select GS and add $5 per coin.
Service Level (Section #6): most economical = "Modern Value" ($300 max coin value; $17 grading fee). Reference
First Strike (Section #7): check the FS box in the "add-on services" column. Cost = $18 per coin. Your info on the "FS Flag Label" is correct. Reference
References:
PDF Submission Form
Step By Step Submission Guide
Packaging & Shipping Guidelines
Good luck with your grades !!!
@MetroD
Thanks for posting the info on submissions. I am sure many of us will appreciate the help. One of the best benefits of the forum. 👍
Beautiful coins!
Had 4 sealed boxes on my desk for nearly a week and took some time this weekend to examine them at my leisure,..which I haven't done with a new Mint product in quite some time.
Can't swear that I can absolutely tell the difference between a 69 or a 70...but I'm sure there's a mix of both in there...and that's just fine.
I also finally looked at the two I bought and feel the proofs have an exceptional polished mirror finish. I did see a small pit or dent about the size a fine point ball point pen would cause if poked into the field on one, but the mirror fields are remarkable.
I do think the laser etching for the cameo is a bit overdone and covers up some of the detail, but this is their intended result. I had already preordered graded 70's, but I did want a couple extras to study in hand. The RP's should be amazing.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
I received four peace proofs. I would grade only one of the four as a 70, the other as a 69. One had a small strike through. I'm OK with this, because I don't expect everything that I receive from the mint to be 70.
.
They will all go in for grading and encapsulation, but only one of them in a single coin holder. The other three are going in for dual coin holders..... one paired with a 1923 Peace dollar, one with a 2023 Morgan proof, and one with a 2023 Peace RP.
.
With early population data, it appears the Peace proof, like the Peace unc, will have a lower rate of 70s at the TPGs than the Morgan prf& uncs.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Why would anyone buy those from APMEX at this price when they can get them direct from the U.S. mint!!
MCM even worst!
Because they don't know they are available.
Why are people buying them on eBay?
Why not ask?
How exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does a sun set? How exactly does a posi-trac rear-end on a Plymouth work?
I wonder if Joe Dirt ever got that figured out?
OT:
I seem to recall something about Posi-Trac not being available on the 1964 Buick Skylark!!
BST references available on request