@coiner said:
The market will absorb these proof dollars. All of them.
People are receiving them now, they will see how beautiful they are and may order more.
That includes me I ordered 10 Peace proof and Morgan, and on my next Credit Card cycle I will be ordering another 10 Peace Proof.....I just love this Peace proof.
What are you going to do with all those Morgan and Peace dollars you get?
=20% will go as "Birthday gifts" and "Christmas gifts" for my young nieces and nephews this year.
=40% will be sold during my retirement period later in life.
=40% will be left for my heirs (nieces and nephews and their children) so they thank me when I'm in heaven.
They'd thank you more if you bought them a mutual fund with the extra money.
That wont work as I have nieces and nephews in at least 5 countries around the world "so far". So Gold/Silver is the only universal money which would work.
I only say that because I see estates so the time and heirs have a tendency to immediately sell anyway.
Yeah I know....I'm doing my best to educate them each time I gift them coins. I let them watch YouTube videos from time to time about coins unboxing, and when they are old enough to get a credit card, I would guide them on how to order direct from the mint.
Right now whenever we meet for family gathering I show them some of my coins collection to inspire them......
@jmlanzaf said:
Anyone want to lock in a September 2024 purchase? You promise to buy at $85 in September 2024 and I will promise to deliver at that price no matter what the market price is.
I guess that was only a matter of time before we wound up with a US Mint futures market.
@jmlanzaf said:
Anyone want to lock in a September 2024 purchase? You promise to buy at $85 in September 2024 and I will promise to deliver at that price no matter what the market price is.
Can we pick the service? NGC 70 or PCGS 70? I'll take PCGS if we can pick the service.
@coiner said:
If you want more examples of “the first” with moderns:
How about:
1) 1999 Silver Proof Set
2) 1999 Delaware state quarter mini bag
3) 2008-w Fractional Buffalo gold ( although the only fractional issues; these will always hold on to value even if more fractional are offered)
4) 2001 Buffalo Commem Dollars (Proof and Unc) 500,000 combined
5) 2009 UHR $20 Gold (these are always higher prices than issue- even though the bottom feeders have been saying for years they will wait to buy at melt…….guess who is still waiting)
6) 2021 Commem Morgan and Peace Dollars in UNC—875,000 Morgan Uncs all still valued above 120+
How many more would you like of the “firsts” being valued more than subsequent (outside of low mintage anomolies)?
None of those followed the trajectory you suggested. All of those coins were immediately higher and sold out quickly.
And despite that, many of those have dropped in value since their peak right after sell out.
I can't think of a single Mint product that had a delayed surge in popularity that created a late sell out and a price surge. The only thing close was the 95W but even that didn't have a delayed sellout. It was just ignored during the initial ordering period and ended up with a very low mintages (orders of magnitude below 400,000).
Buy them. Love them. But don't make predictions based on love.
You are 100% wrong. Not half wrong, not mostly wrong, but 100% wrong.
Each example was of a “first” that didn’t sellout immediately, most people poo-poo’d, and they swung to the upside shortly afterwards.
Do your homework. Don’t just post for the sake of your “count”.
I’ve been on these boards for some time, many years more than you, some know me by “7over8”.
For all of the old timers who have bought into issues that Eric Jordan and I had spent many hours discussing and targeting—good for you and you should have made some decent bucks over the years.
I’ve been on these boards for some time, many years more than you, some know me by “7over8”.
For all of the old timers who have bought into issues that Eric Jordan and I had spent many hours discussing and targeting—good for you and you should have made some decent bucks over the years.
Why did you change your handle?
I remember you way back in the day discussing modern Mint issues......you knew your stuff.
I tried to get it changed back. A few years ago there was some kind of an issue on the forum with user IDs and mine had been changed. I emailed the moderators several times to no avail.
@coiner said:
I tried to get it changed back. A few years ago there was some kind of an issue on the forum with user IDs and mine had been changed. I emailed the moderators several times to no avail.
I remember your posts on the infamous 2008-W with Reverse of 2007 ASE 'error.'
You said it was not a variety, but an error. Right?
Can’t remember how that convo went with the 2008-w Reverse of 2007 ASE; but it was good to me—I think I pulled just short of 100 coins from multiple orders.
@coiner said:
Can’t remember how that convo went with the 2008-w Reverse of 2007 ASE; but it was good to me—I think I pulled just short of 100 coins from multiple orders.
I’ve been on these boards for some time, many years more than you, some know me by “7over8”.
For all of the old timers who have bought into issues that Eric Jordan and I had spent many hours discussing and targeting—good for you and you should have made some decent bucks over the years.
I remember your posts associated with the 2008 platinum coins. Welcome back. I also purchased Eric Jordan’s book back in the day.
Just my 2 cents...but I think it's beyond apples and oranges to compare collecting coins, or more precisely these two proof issues, to an IRA account or other investment portfolio.
For me, this is a hobby not an investing strategy...although it is nice if your coins appreciate over time.
But be that as it may...for a grand total of $800, I now own 10 U.S. coins that simply did not exist on this Earth before last week, namely PR-69/70 officially struck Peace and Morgan dollars...and that's pretty sweet!
Now, re potential loss...what's the downside potential...$10 or $20 per coin? That's pretty small potatoes vs. my stock account that can lose (or gain) many thousands of dollars a day...or worse...and can take months or years to recover.
Plus...who ever looked at their stocks under a loupe???
Occasionally there is a bad issue that we purchase, but it is usually outweighed by the number of good picks over time.
For me, picking and flipping the good ones ended up in other coins in my collection.
It’s a lot more fun and in your control rather than investing in stocks.
I ve enjoyed this hobby with my father, my son and daughter, and now hope to do the same with my grandkids.
@jmlanzaf said:
Anyone want to lock in a September 2024 purchase? You promise to buy at $85 in September 2024 and I will promise to deliver at that price no matter what the market price is.
Can we pick the service? NGC 70 or PCGS 70? I'll take PCGS if we can pick the service.
@coiner said:
And the 95W was available all year right up until December 1995 when the published last chance orders could be made.
It didn’t sellout.
No it did not. I've already posted this. It's really about the only example. People actively avoided it. You could icky get it in the b4 coin gold set. The price was the same with and without the ASE but people preferred the without.
But the mintage was much lower in the 95W and ASEs became a popular series to collect.
Many/ most Morgan collectors do not consider these coins to be part of the series.
The big boys are not jumping in. That should also tell you something. 1 or 2 of them could have sold it out when the HHL was lifted but they didn't.
But feel free to hype the coin. Hopefully, people won't buy into it. But, if they do, it's their money. They can throw it around wherever they want.
@RichR said:
Just my 2 cents...but I think it's beyond apples and oranges to compare collecting coins, or more precisely these two proof issues, to an IRA account or other investment portfolio.
For me, this is a hobby not an investing strategy...although it is nice if your coins appreciate over time.
But be that as it may...for a grand total of $800, I now own 10 U.S. coins that simply did not exist on this Earth before last week, namely PR-69/70 officially struck Peace and Morgan dollars...and that's pretty sweet!
Now, re potential loss...what's the downside potential...$10 or $20 per coin? That's pretty small potatoes vs. my stock account that can lose (or gain) many thousands of dollars a day...or worse...and can take months or years to recover.
Plus...who ever looked at their stocks under a loupe???
I agree. I don't invest in coins.
But there's also a significant difference between buying a couple to collect and buying a bunch to speculate on a price increase.
When I first rejoined the forum in 2017, I was very excited about the enhanced uncirculated sets. I flipped hundreds of sets and had fun doing it. And the whole time I was doing it people called me names, said I was pumping and dumping. I was told I wouldn't last a year in the forum, etc.
I still love that set and it is generally just below issue price 6 years later. A huge win when it comes to Mint or Proof sets. Lol. But I didn't expect the set to sky rocket. I just liked it for what it was. And I never suggested other people should buy it or that the set would appreciate in value. I rarely do because Mint products drop below issue price 95% of the time.
I seem to get it no matter which side I'm on. Lol.
Oh well. We'll have to revisit this next year. I'll have to put a reminder in my calendar.
@coiner said:
And the 95W was available all year right up until December 1995 when the published last chance orders could be made.
It didn’t sellout.
No it did not. I've already posted this. It's really about the only example. People actively avoided it. You could icky get it in the b4 coin gold set. The price was the same with and without the ASE but people preferred the without.
But the mintage was much lower in the 95W and ASEs became a popular series to collect.
Many/ most Morgan collectors do not consider these coins to be part of the series.
The big boys are not jumping in. That should also tell you something. 1 or 2 of them could have sold it out when the HHL was lifted but they didn't.
But feel free to hype the coin. Hopefully, people won't buy into it. But, if they do, it's their money. They can throw it around wherever they want.
I think the big retailers already committed significantly. They are all over ebay with various presale offerings.
They won't jump back in until they see inventory moving.
That's the kicker at this early stage, is inventory selling and at what rate.
@coiner said:
And the 95W was available all year right up until December 1995 when the published last chance orders could be made.
It didn’t sellout.
No it did not. I've already posted this. It's really about the only example. People actively avoided it. You could icky get it in the b4 coin gold set. The price was the same with and without the ASE but people preferred the without.
Incorrect again.
I personally bought two sets in December, 1995 —they were available until the went “off sale” in mid/late December. They did not sell out.
The 95-w proof eagle in early 1996 barely crossed the $250-$300 range. If you cannibalized the set and sold off the gold when received you had about $150-$200 in the silver proof eagle.
@RichR said:
Just my 2 cents...but I think it's beyond apples and oranges to compare collecting coins, or more precisely these two proof issues, to an IRA account or other investment portfolio.
For me, this is a hobby not an investing strategy...although it is nice if your coins appreciate over time.
But be that as it may...for a grand total of $800, I now own 10 U.S. coins that simply did not exist on this Earth before last week, namely PR-69/70 officially struck Peace and Morgan dollars...and that's pretty sweet!
Now, re potential loss...what's the downside potential...$10 or $20 per coin? That's pretty small potatoes vs. my stock account that can lose (or gain) many thousands of dollars a day...or worse...and can take months or years to recover.
Plus...who ever looked at their stocks under a loupe???
I agree. I don't invest in coins.
But there's also a significant difference between buying a couple to collect and buying a bunch to speculate on a price increase.
When I first rejoined the forum in 2017, I was very excited about the enhanced uncirculated sets. I flipped hundreds of sets and had fun doing it. And the whole time I was doing it people called me names, said I was pumping and dumping. I was told I wouldn't last a year in the forum, etc.
I still love that set and it is generally just below issue price 6 years later. A huge win when it comes to Mint or Proof sets. Lol. But I didn't expect the set to sky rocket. I just liked it for what it was. And I never suggested other people should buy it or that the set would appreciate in value. I rarely do because Mint products drop below issue price 95% of the time. >
If you’re buying Proof sets; Mint Sets; general clad coins—rolls, bags, etc. my suggestion is to stay away.
If you’re buying popular lower mintage precious metals issues—your point about “95% drop below issue” is probably much lower percentage.
@coiner said:
And the 95W was available all year right up until December 1995 when the published last chance orders could be made.
It didn’t sellout.
No it did not. I've already posted this. It's really about the only example. People actively avoided it. You could icky get it in the b4 coin gold set. The price was the same with and without the ASE but people preferred the without.
Incorrect again.
I personally bought two sets in December, 1995 —they were available until the went “off sale” in mid/late December. They did not sell out.
The 95-w proof eagle in early 1996 barely crossed the $250-$300 range. If you cannibalized the set and sold off the gold when received you had about $150-$200 in the silver proof eagle.
What's incorrect? That's exactly what I said except for the prices: it did not sell out and people actually bought the 4 coin set without it for the same price.
So far, I haven't been incorrect once much less "again." I'm not sure what your trying to prove. That a proof commemorative peace dollar with a mintage of 400,000 will perform the same as a proof ASE with a mintage 1/10th that?
As I've said twice, let's make it 3x: the 95W is probably the only Mint product that didn't sell out and appreciated much later. And that was 30 years ago when the internet barely was a factor and distribution was very different. Since then, the only "winners" were instant sell outs with instant price surges.
There is always artificial scarcity right after release because of the people who hoard extra and/or dealers and flippers. This coin had a HHL of 5 from the jump which makes that excess distribution even worse. Yet it still hasn't sold out.
But keep hyping it. If you can convince another 100,000 people to buy it, you might get the price to jump.
I'm just going to enjoy it for what it is and hope it's price mimics a proof ASE: price floor about $20 before issue price.
@RichR said:
Just my 2 cents...but I think it's beyond apples and oranges to compare collecting coins, or more precisely these two proof issues, to an IRA account or other investment portfolio.
For me, this is a hobby not an investing strategy...although it is nice if your coins appreciate over time.
But be that as it may...for a grand total of $800, I now own 10 U.S. coins that simply did not exist on this Earth before last week, namely PR-69/70 officially struck Peace and Morgan dollars...and that's pretty sweet!
Now, re potential loss...what's the downside potential...$10 or $20 per coin? That's pretty small potatoes vs. my stock account that can lose (or gain) many thousands of dollars a day...or worse...and can take months or years to recover.
Plus...who ever looked at their stocks under a loupe???
I agree. I don't invest in coins.
But there's also a significant difference between buying a couple to collect and buying a bunch to speculate on a price increase.
When I first rejoined the forum in 2017, I was very excited about the enhanced uncirculated sets. I flipped hundreds of sets and had fun doing it. And the whole time I was doing it people called me names, said I was pumping and dumping. I was told I wouldn't last a year in the forum, etc.
I still love that set and it is generally just below issue price 6 years later. A huge win when it comes to Mint or Proof sets. Lol. But I didn't expect the set to sky rocket. I just liked it for what it was. And I never suggested other people should buy it or that the set would appreciate in value. I rarely do because Mint products drop below issue price 95% of the time. >
If you’re buying Proof sets; Mint Sets; general clad coins—rolls, bags, etc. my suggestion is to stay away.
If you’re buying popular lower mintage precious metals issues—your point about “95% drop below issue” is probably much lower percentage.
400,000 is not lower. For ASEs, anything above 100,000 is too much and that's the most popular Mint series.
AGEs, suppose gold, etc all have low mintages but few do anything but track the price of the bullion.
You can cherry pick your data and increase the percentage. But 95% of gold and silver commems and proof sets do not hold the premium a year or two out.
The sales stocklevel increasedagain today, by close to 20K for each of the proof issues . The current stocklevel for purchase is very close to what it was for each proof issue early on release day...a net sales of 1,072 Morgan proofs and 1,455 Peace proofs since 8/9 @ 1:47pm PDT.
.
.
What's the odds that these proofs will not sell out by the November 14 release data for the RP set?
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@SilverPlatinum said: @SPalladino : How do you explain that increase between August 13th and 14th? That cannot be all bad credit cards! What do you think is happening?
A Pulitzer Prize winning journalist once said prediction is the lowest form of journalism. I also think prediction is lowest form of posting to the Coin Forum.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@SilverPlatinum said: @SPalladino : How do you explain that increase between August 13th and 14th? That cannot be all bad credit cards! What do you think is happening?
Mint accounting reconciliation, and likely multifactorial. Not knowing all of the various factors internal to the mint, I can only observe that is what it is.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@HATTRICK said:
A Pulitzer Prize winning journalist once said prediction is the lowest form of journalism. I also think prediction is lowest form of posting to the Coin Forum.
I respect your opinion, and would, respectfully, like to give mine:
a) there are many replies/posts that are of lower character than a prediction.
b) predictions come in many forms:
a wild ass guess based on no evidence
conjecture, based on incomplete evidence
a prediction based on substantial evidence (eg, weather forecast, among other predictions)
Of course, all have the potential to be wrong, but some are entertaining, and potentially even informative....if taken with the appropriate degree of skepticism deserved by each of the above types of predictions. But, the thing about predictions, when put into writing, they can come back and smack the author in the face.
I don't mind predictions. I do mind some posts that are of lower character than predictions.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@SilverPlatinum said: @SPalladino : How do you explain that increase between August 13th and 14th? That cannot be all bad credit cards! What do you think is happening?
@SilverPlatinum said: @SPalladino : How do you explain that increase between August 13th and 14th? That cannot be all bad credit cards! What do you think is happening?
Mint accounting reconciliation, and likely multifactorial. Not knowing all of the various factors internal to the mint, I can only observe that is what it is.
Here's what I think it may be. Ventris Gibson held back many of the releases and kept them in her office. These were supposed to be gifts for the Mint's best customers. They would be certified as "handled by Ventris Gibson" and slabbed accordingly. However, she soon realized that this gift would be much too valuable and put the coins back in inventory.
@RichR said:
Just my 2 cents...but I think it's beyond apples and oranges to compare collecting coins, or more precisely these two proof issues, to an IRA account or other investment portfolio.
For me, this is a hobby not an investing strategy...although it is nice if your coins appreciate over time.
But be that as it may...for a grand total of $800, I now own 10 U.S. coins that simply did not exist on this Earth before last week, namely PR-69/70 officially struck Peace and Morgan dollars...and that's pretty sweet!
Now, re potential loss...what's the downside potential...$10 or $20 per coin? That's pretty small potatoes vs. my stock account that can lose (or gain) many thousands of dollars a day...or worse...and can take months or years to recover.
Plus...who ever looked at their stocks under a loupe???
I agree. I don't invest in coins.
But there's also a significant difference between buying a couple to collect and buying a bunch to speculate on a price increase.
When I first rejoined the forum in 2017, I was very excited about the enhanced uncirculated sets. I flipped hundreds of sets and had fun doing it. And the whole time I was doing it people called me names, said I was pumping and dumping. I was told I wouldn't last a year in the forum, etc.
I still love that set and it is generally just below issue price 6 years later. A huge win when it comes to Mint or Proof sets. Lol. But I didn't expect the set to sky rocket. I just liked it for what it was. And I never suggested other people should buy it or that the set would appreciate in value. I rarely do because Mint products drop below issue price 95% of the time. >
If you’re buying Proof sets; Mint Sets; general clad coins—rolls, bags, etc. my suggestion is to stay away.
If you’re buying popular lower mintage precious metals issues—your point about “95% drop below issue” is probably much lower percentage.
400,000 is not lower. For ASEs, anything above 100,000 is too much and that's the most popular Mint series.
AGEs, suppose gold, etc all have low mintages but few do anything but track the price of the bullion.
You can cherry pick your data and increase the percentage. But 95% of gold and silver commems and proof sets do not hold the premium a year or two out.
I guess you don’t bother tracking some of the PM issues from 2006 to date in PCGS 70 FS.
Tracking to PM price? Take another look.
It appears all you like to do is argue counterpoints; we can go at this all day long.
The Morgan and Peace proofs will do just fine. I never said they will be home runs, only that they will rise above issue in short order. Its reasonable to see a price of about $10-$20 over issue in about 2 months.
@jmlanzaf said:
Anyone want to lock in a September 2024 purchase? You promise to buy at $85 in September 2024 and I will promise to deliver at that price no matter what the market price is.
If it’s a subscription order for 2024, you have up to three days before issue date to cancel the order
The things I don’t always agree with are always worth considering.
@jmlanzaf said:
Anyone want to lock in a September 2024 purchase? You promise to buy at $85 in September 2024 and I will promise to deliver at that price no matter what the market price is.
If it’s a subscription order for 2024, you have up to three days before issue date to cancel the order
@RichR said:
Just my 2 cents...but I think it's beyond apples and oranges to compare collecting coins, or more precisely these two proof issues, to an IRA account or other investment portfolio.
For me, this is a hobby not an investing strategy...although it is nice if your coins appreciate over time.
But be that as it may...for a grand total of $800, I now own 10 U.S. coins that simply did not exist on this Earth before last week, namely PR-69/70 officially struck Peace and Morgan dollars...and that's pretty sweet!
Now, re potential loss...what's the downside potential...$10 or $20 per coin? That's pretty small potatoes vs. my stock account that can lose (or gain) many thousands of dollars a day...or worse...and can take months or years to recover.
Plus...who ever looked at their stocks under a loupe???
I agree. I don't invest in coins.
But there's also a significant difference between buying a couple to collect and buying a bunch to speculate on a price increase.
When I first rejoined the forum in 2017, I was very excited about the enhanced uncirculated sets. I flipped hundreds of sets and had fun doing it. And the whole time I was doing it people called me names, said I was pumping and dumping. I was told I wouldn't last a year in the forum, etc.
I still love that set and it is generally just below issue price 6 years later. A huge win when it comes to Mint or Proof sets. Lol. But I didn't expect the set to sky rocket. I just liked it for what it was. And I never suggested other people should buy it or that the set would appreciate in value. I rarely do because Mint products drop below issue price 95% of the time. >
If you’re buying Proof sets; Mint Sets; general clad coins—rolls, bags, etc. my suggestion is to stay away.
If you’re buying popular lower mintage precious metals issues—your point about “95% drop below issue” is probably much lower percentage.
400,000 is not lower. For ASEs, anything above 100,000 is too much and that's the most popular Mint series.
AGEs, suppose gold, etc all have low mintages but few do anything but track the price of the bullion.
You can cherry pick your data and increase the percentage. But 95% of gold and silver commems and proof sets do not hold the premium a year or two out.
I guess you don’t bother tracking some of the PM issues from 2006 to date in PCGS 70 FS.
Tracking to PM price? Take another look.
It appears all you like to do is argue counterpoints; we can go at this all day long.
The Morgan and Peace proofs will do just fine. I never said they will be home runs, only that they will rise above issue in short order. Its reasonable to see a price of about $10-$20 over issue in about 2 months.i
I said "few" not all. And I've never mentioned anything but OGP. Some coins had relatively low 70 yields and did okay in that plastic.
I think it is reasonable to be at issue price or lower in 2 months.
It appears all you like to do is argue counterpoints. We can go at this all day long.
@SilverPlatinum said: @SPalladino : How do you explain that increase between August 13th and 14th? That cannot be all bad credit cards! What do you think is happening?
People busted for violating HHL?
They've lifted it days ago. I wouldn't think they'd care.
@SilverPlatinum said: @SPalladino : How do you explain that increase between August 13th and 14th? That cannot be all bad credit cards! What do you think is happening?
Mint accounting reconciliation, and likely multifactorial. Not knowing all of the various factors internal to the mint, I can only observe that is what it is.
It is not unusual for a cold issue with no profit potential to see cancelations of orders.
Infamously, my precious 2017 EU set sold out in 20 minutes (225,000 mintage). Then one major canceled an order of 10,000 or so on the second day. That led to an avalanche of cancelations and returns resulting in sales dropping to 180,000ish. After months of being available/unavailable, the ended sales and the set never sold out.
A jump of 20,000 could be mostly one major order cancelation. It could also be a combination of a dozen other things: bad charge cards, inventory reconciliation, release of holds, etc.
The only thing it probably isn't is returns because it takes them a fair amount of time to get those processed, at least historically. And that processing didn't start until the coins are received back at the Mint.
Guys; just got the 2 boxes for the Proof (Peace/Morgan) 10 coins each box. My question: Should I open the boxes or not?
Will this be in any added value later on if I decided to sell them or grade them in these original mint sealed boxes?
@SilverPlatinum said:
Guys; just got the 2 boxes for the Proof (Peace/Morgan) 10 coins each box. My question: Should I open the boxes or not?
Will this be in any added value later on if I decided to sell them or grade them in these original mint sealed boxes?
Sometimes there is. But there is also the risk that there's only 9 in the box.
@SilverPlatinum said:
Guys; just got the 2 boxes for the Proof (Peace/Morgan) 10 coins each box. My question: Should I open the boxes or not?
Will this be in any added value later on if I decided to sell them or grade them in these original mint sealed boxes?
Received my box of two Peace Proofs today. There is number 302 in pen on the label. Could it mean that golden ticket #302
for the proofs is inside and it is a warning to submit sealed? Anyone else get a box with a penned number on the label?
Will leave sealed for a few days to see if anything pops up.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@UpGrayedd said:
I received my Morgan and Peace Proofs today. I am really disappointed in the QC at the Mint. Both coins have filth/debris on the inside of the capsule. Check out the left side on the reverse of both coins.
Only if it was an 1878-1904 proof in that condition. Then it would still be a HUGE premium,
@HATTRICK said:
Received my box of two Peace Proofs today. There is number 302 in pen on the label. Could it mean that golden ticket #302
for the proofs is inside and it is a warning to submit sealed? Anyone else get a box with a penned number on the label?
Will leave sealed for a few days to see if anything pops up.
Here's what I think it may be. Ventris Gibson held back many of the releases and kept them in her office. These were supposed to be gifts for the Mint's best customers. They would be certified as "handled by Ventris Gibson" and slabbed accordingly. However, she soon realized that this gift would be much too valuable and put the coins back in inventory.
I believe that @SPalladino (post above) described this possible scenario as a WAG ...
@HATTRICK said:
Received my box of two Peace Proofs today. There is number 302 in pen on the label. Could it mean that golden ticket #302
Can you show us a photo for this number?
It is just a number in pen to the right of my name and address. Most likely something by the post office or mailman. I get a lot of UPS packages with writing in pen on them.
Still fun to dream of a big score.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@HATTRICK said:
Received my box of two Peace Proofs today. There is number 302 in pen on the label. Could it mean that golden ticket #302
Can you show us a photo for this number?
It is just a number in pen to the right of my name and address. Most likely something by the post office or mailman. I get a lot of UPS packages with writing in pen on them.
Still fun to dream of a big score.
Is your house number 302? Or part of your zip code?
I have packages show up at my home, with my house number written on it all the time.
I have just assumed it was whatever sorting system my local carrier was using to help him make his daily deliveries.
I was at the ANA and had a “few” items signed by current USM Director.
I will emphasize “a few”, meaning less than 5.
There were others who overloaded her with what seemed to be 50+ or more of the Morgan/Peace COAs to sign.
All I could say is HOG.
No matter where you go there is always a HOG.
Limits should be placed on these characters who obviously only intend to market the signature for profit.
Mine will go to family members who have interest-along with the coins.
Comments
Yeah I know....I'm doing my best to educate them each time I gift them coins. I let them watch YouTube videos from time to time about coins unboxing, and when they are old enough to get a credit card, I would guide them on how to order direct from the mint.
Right now whenever we meet for family gathering I show them some of my coins collection to inspire them......
Watch the big retailers on ebay for pricing. They have bumped the uncs in 70 and showing sellouts periodically.
If these proof sales stagnate then I would expect them to lower pricing in the near future. If they are moving out steady they will hang tough.
I guess that was only a matter of time before we wound up with a US Mint futures market.
Congratulations. I think you just started it.
Can we pick the service? NGC 70 or PCGS 70? I'll take PCGS if we can pick the service.
You are 100% wrong. Not half wrong, not mostly wrong, but 100% wrong.
Each example was of a “first” that didn’t sellout immediately, most people poo-poo’d, and they swung to the upside shortly afterwards.
Do your homework. Don’t just post for the sake of your “count”.
I’ve been on these boards for some time, many years more than you, some know me by “7over8”.
For all of the old timers who have bought into issues that Eric Jordan and I had spent many hours discussing and targeting—good for you and you should have made some decent bucks over the years.
And the 95W was available all year right up until December 1995 when the published last chance orders could be made.
It didn’t sellout.
Why did you change your handle?
I remember you way back in the day discussing modern Mint issues......you knew your stuff.
Glad you are back in the saddle.
7over8
I tried to get it changed back. A few years ago there was some kind of an issue on the forum with user IDs and mine had been changed. I emailed the moderators several times to no avail.
I remember your posts on the infamous 2008-W with Reverse of 2007 ASE 'error.'
You said it was not a variety, but an error. Right?
Thanks Goldbully.
Wonder how many of the old crew from 2006-2010 are still active here.
The good old days for flipping USM products.
Can’t remember how that convo went with the 2008-w Reverse of 2007 ASE; but it was good to me—I think I pulled just short of 100 coins from multiple orders.
I owned a few, and sold high I believe.
Here's the Huge Thread April 2008
What a fun time! I got a box of ten Reverse of 2007’s and slowly unboxed them, giving one away in a drawing and keeping the rest.
I remember your posts associated with the 2008 platinum coins. Welcome back. I also purchased Eric Jordan’s book back in the day.
Just my 2 cents...but I think it's beyond apples and oranges to compare collecting coins, or more precisely these two proof issues, to an IRA account or other investment portfolio.
For me, this is a hobby not an investing strategy...although it is nice if your coins appreciate over time.
But be that as it may...for a grand total of $800, I now own 10 U.S. coins that simply did not exist on this Earth before last week, namely PR-69/70 officially struck Peace and Morgan dollars...and that's pretty sweet!
Now, re potential loss...what's the downside potential...$10 or $20 per coin? That's pretty small potatoes vs. my stock account that can lose (or gain) many thousands of dollars a day...or worse...and can take months or years to recover.
Plus...who ever looked at their stocks under a loupe???
Occasionally there is a bad issue that we purchase, but it is usually outweighed by the number of good picks over time.
For me, picking and flipping the good ones ended up in other coins in my collection.
It’s a lot more fun and in your control rather than investing in stocks.
I ve enjoyed this hobby with my father, my son and daughter, and now hope to do the same with my grandkids.
OGP
No it did not. I've already posted this. It's really about the only example. People actively avoided it. You could icky get it in the b4 coin gold set. The price was the same with and without the ASE but people preferred the without.
But the mintage was much lower in the 95W and ASEs became a popular series to collect.
Many/ most Morgan collectors do not consider these coins to be part of the series.
The big boys are not jumping in. That should also tell you something. 1 or 2 of them could have sold it out when the HHL was lifted but they didn't.
But feel free to hype the coin. Hopefully, people won't buy into it. But, if they do, it's their money. They can throw it around wherever they want.
I agree. I don't invest in coins.
But there's also a significant difference between buying a couple to collect and buying a bunch to speculate on a price increase.
When I first rejoined the forum in 2017, I was very excited about the enhanced uncirculated sets. I flipped hundreds of sets and had fun doing it. And the whole time I was doing it people called me names, said I was pumping and dumping. I was told I wouldn't last a year in the forum, etc.
I still love that set and it is generally just below issue price 6 years later. A huge win when it comes to Mint or Proof sets. Lol. But I didn't expect the set to sky rocket. I just liked it for what it was. And I never suggested other people should buy it or that the set would appreciate in value. I rarely do because Mint products drop below issue price 95% of the time.
I seem to get it no matter which side I'm on. Lol.
Oh well. We'll have to revisit this next year. I'll have to put a reminder in my calendar.
I think the big retailers already committed significantly. They are all over ebay with various presale offerings.
They won't jump back in until they see inventory moving.
That's the kicker at this early stage, is inventory selling and at what rate.
Incorrect again.
I personally bought two sets in December, 1995 —they were available until the went “off sale” in mid/late December. They did not sell out.
The 95-w proof eagle in early 1996 barely crossed the $250-$300 range. If you cannibalized the set and sold off the gold when received you had about $150-$200 in the silver proof eagle.
If you’re buying Proof sets; Mint Sets; general clad coins—rolls, bags, etc. my suggestion is to stay away.
If you’re buying popular lower mintage precious metals issues—your point about “95% drop below issue” is probably much lower percentage.
What's incorrect? That's exactly what I said except for the prices: it did not sell out and people actually bought the 4 coin set without it for the same price.
So far, I haven't been incorrect once much less "again." I'm not sure what your trying to prove. That a proof commemorative peace dollar with a mintage of 400,000 will perform the same as a proof ASE with a mintage 1/10th that?
As I've said twice, let's make it 3x: the 95W is probably the only Mint product that didn't sell out and appreciated much later. And that was 30 years ago when the internet barely was a factor and distribution was very different. Since then, the only "winners" were instant sell outs with instant price surges.
There is always artificial scarcity right after release because of the people who hoard extra and/or dealers and flippers. This coin had a HHL of 5 from the jump which makes that excess distribution even worse. Yet it still hasn't sold out.
But keep hyping it. If you can convince another 100,000 people to buy it, you might get the price to jump.
I'm just going to enjoy it for what it is and hope it's price mimics a proof ASE: price floor about $20 before issue price.
400,000 is not lower. For ASEs, anything above 100,000 is too much and that's the most popular Mint series.
AGEs, suppose gold, etc all have low mintages but few do anything but track the price of the bullion.
You can cherry pick your data and increase the percentage. But 95% of gold and silver commems and proof sets do not hold the premium a year or two out.
Stock market is down today...but my coins are scheduled to be delivered.
Guess which one excites me more?
My pants are down, but my Morgan proof is scheduled to be delivered today.
Guess which one excites my wife more? (The answer is neither.
)
The sales stocklevel increased again today, by close to 20K for each of the proof issues . The current stocklevel for purchase is very close to what it was for each proof issue early on release day...a net sales of 1,072 Morgan proofs and 1,455 Peace proofs since 8/9 @ 1:47pm PDT.
.
.
What's the odds that these proofs will not sell out by the November 14 release data for the RP set?
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@SPalladino : How do you explain that increase between August 13th and 14th? That cannot be all bad credit cards! What do you think is happening?
People busted for violating HHL?
A Pulitzer Prize winning journalist once said prediction is the lowest form of journalism. I also think prediction is lowest form of posting to the Coin Forum.
if they don't sell out by Christmas, the mint may mark them down for their annual end of year discounts
Mint accounting reconciliation, and likely multifactorial. Not knowing all of the various factors internal to the mint, I can only observe that is what it is.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
I respect your opinion, and would, respectfully, like to give mine:
a) there are many replies/posts that are of lower character than a prediction.
b) predictions come in many forms:
Of course, all have the potential to be wrong, but some are entertaining, and potentially even informative....if taken with the appropriate degree of skepticism deserved by each of the above types of predictions. But, the thing about predictions, when put into writing, they can come back and smack the author in the face.
I don't mind predictions. I do mind some posts that are of lower character than predictions.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
FWIW.................
Here's what I think it may be. Ventris Gibson held back many of the releases and kept them in her office. These were supposed to be gifts for the Mint's best customers. They would be certified as "handled by Ventris Gibson" and slabbed accordingly. However, she soon realized that this gift would be much too valuable and put the coins back in inventory.
I guess you don’t bother tracking some of the PM issues from 2006 to date in PCGS 70 FS.
Tracking to PM price? Take another look.
It appears all you like to do is argue counterpoints; we can go at this all day long.
The Morgan and Peace proofs will do just fine. I never said they will be home runs, only that they will rise above issue in short order. Its reasonable to see a price of about $10-$20 over issue in about 2 months.
If it’s a subscription order for 2024, you have up to three days before issue date to cancel the order
The things I don’t always agree with are always worth considering.
I'm talking about 2023 coins
I said "few" not all. And I've never mentioned anything but OGP. Some coins had relatively low 70 yields and did okay in that plastic.
I think it is reasonable to be at issue price or lower in 2 months.
It appears all you like to do is argue counterpoints. We can go at this all day long.
They've lifted it days ago. I wouldn't think they'd care.
It is not unusual for a cold issue with no profit potential to see cancelations of orders.
Infamously, my precious 2017 EU set sold out in 20 minutes (225,000 mintage). Then one major canceled an order of 10,000 or so on the second day. That led to an avalanche of cancelations and returns resulting in sales dropping to 180,000ish. After months of being available/unavailable, the ended sales and the set never sold out.
A jump of 20,000 could be mostly one major order cancelation. It could also be a combination of a dozen other things: bad charge cards, inventory reconciliation, release of holds, etc.
The only thing it probably isn't is returns because it takes them a fair amount of time to get those processed, at least historically. And that processing didn't start until the coins are received back at the Mint.
Guys; just got the 2 boxes for the Proof (Peace/Morgan) 10 coins each box. My question: Should I open the boxes or not?
Will this be in any added value later on if I decided to sell them or grade them in these original mint sealed boxes?
Sometimes there is. But there is also the risk that there's only 9 in the box.
Check for golden tickets.
Received my box of two Peace Proofs today. There is number 302 in pen on the label. Could it mean that golden ticket #302
for the proofs is inside and it is a warning to submit sealed? Anyone else get a box with a penned number on the label?
Will leave sealed for a few days to see if anything pops up.
Only if it was an 1878-1904 proof in that condition. Then it would still be a HUGE premium,
Can you show us a photo for this number?
I believe that @SPalladino (post above) described this possible scenario as a WAG ...
Not exactly a prediction...but just as wild.
BST references available on request
It is just a number in pen to the right of my name and address. Most likely something by the post office or mailman. I get a lot of UPS packages with writing in pen on them.
Still fun to dream of a big score.
Is your house number 302? Or part of your zip code?
I have packages show up at my home, with my house number written on it all the time.
I have just assumed it was whatever sorting system my local carrier was using to help him make his daily deliveries.
BST references available on request
I was at the ANA and had a “few” items signed by current USM Director.
I will emphasize “a few”, meaning less than 5.
There were others who overloaded her with what seemed to be 50+ or more of the Morgan/Peace COAs to sign.
All I could say is HOG.
No matter where you go there is always a HOG.
Limits should be placed on these characters who obviously only intend to market the signature for profit.
Mine will go to family members who have interest-along with the coins.