@johnny010 said:
If the suggestion is to buy from retail vendors and get a better price, which company do you recommend?
Pinehurst and Coin Advisor are the same price. Pinehurst only sells on eBay so sales tax will be collected as required by your state. You can call Coin Advisor directly, I deal with Claudia, and they may not be required to collect sales tax depending how much business they do in your state.
This is incorrect information.
Here’s Pinehursts website:
Just fact finding and not an endorsement. Although I’ve had several successful purchases.
I was definitely skeptical on whether or not they over produced these but yeah I'd agree with the above assuming we don't see a massive dump of subscriptions ahead of the release dates. I do wonder where they'd be at if the mint hadn't increased the HHL's up to 25 for the non-reverse proof set issues.
What I'm most surprised about are the folks on eBay that are more than happy to pre-order the 2 coin sets between $350-400 on average.
I asked my 9 year old grandson to give me a winning number for the lottery Saturday night. He said "Pop Pop play 328"
So I played $4 straight and won $2,000. He recently won a 40" Smart tv and another large basket of outdoor toys at charity events. He is my lucky charm. When I see him to give him his half I will aske him if these coins will be a winner or not.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@HATTRICK said:
I asked my 9 year old grandson to give me a winning number for the lottery Saturday night. He said "Pop Pop play 328"
So I played $4 straight and won $2,000. He recently won a 40" Smart tv and another large basket of outdoor toys at charity events. He is my lucky charm. When I see him to give him his half I will aske him if these coins will be a winner or not.
How nice. I have a 9 year old grandson and aren’t they just awesome little whippersnappers !
I’m seeing an amazing generation coming up. Congratulations buddy. Treasure his luck or is it? 🤠
Thanks 🙏
[You are correct. They have held coins for the first day of sale. Be ready at 12:00 and click away.]
I just realized earlier today that I seem to be in for "only" 3 each of the Uncs but 5 of everything else...so I my need to buy 2 more Uncs on Day 1 with the riff raff!
@RichR said:
[You are correct. They have held coins for the first day of sale. Be ready at 12:00 and click away.]
I just realized earlier today that I seem to be in for "only" 3 each of the Uncs but 5 of everything else...so I my need to buy 2 more Uncs on Day 1 with the riff raff!
Should be no problem as long as they don’t change the HHL from 25. You should be able to snag a couple more
Subscription Page has gone wacko after getting "about to ship" message.
I can't get in to adjust or cancel.
Has the BIG CANCEL BEGUN?
Also called the Mint and they can't get in either.....
.
All back to normal after 1 hour....
Active block can be unchecked at any time prior to 3 days before SCHEDULED July 13 release date to cancel any order.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I am planning to keep 1 full 70s set for all Morgans. It's nice that we can find these now rather than look and cherry pick coins that have been discontinued imo. I had totally forgotten I had the subscription, thought they canceled it after 2022 was done with. I do like how the subscriptions allows collectors to get a set.
With the HHL of 1, my subscription has 3 per coin...was it supposed to only be 1?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
.
Not in a "net" sort of way. There may be a lot of folks adjusting their subscriptions downward, but there are folks gobbling up whatever is released back. Consequently, the net subscriptions available stay close to the 0-10 available range every day.
The Peace proofs had a big drop in subs four days ago, but then the sub numbers corrected back and are now similar to what they were the day before the big drop.
.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Just got the update your account ‘cause shipping is about to start? Oh well I deleted a CC that was old. Info looks fine. Don’t believe they will be shipping before the 13 th. They are getting active at the mint.
Here’s an exclusive look at just one employee. Thanks 🙏
Last night, I was watching Mike Mesak hawk his 2023 Morgan unc and 2023 Peace unc in ANACS 'Advanced Release' MS70 (IIRC, $250 each) on HSN.
.
He mentioned that there are 18 ABPP buyers. There is supposed to be 10% of the mintage available to the ABPP, or about 27500 Morgan unc, and 27500 Peace unc. If there are 18 ABPP buyers, and each took a full allotment of advanced release coins, it would be about 1527 of each, the Morgan unc and Peace unc available to each ABPP buyer.
.
Mesak's 2023 Morgan unc and 2023 Peace unc in ANACS 'Advanced Release' MS70 offerings were each numbered "X of 676". So he had 676 ANACS MS70 'advanced release' coins of each, the Morgan and Peace uncs.
.
1527 likely purchased, 676 in ANACS MS70. What of the other 851? Some going to another TPG? Some not grading 70 (likely minimum grade 70 requested)?
.
Of course, the maths can be way off, but certainly raised some curiosity on my part. And got me wondering, where will these 2023 Morgan and Peace uncs grade out in the range between the 2021-S Morgans (84% 70s @ PCGS), or the 2021-D Morgans (58% 70s @ PCGS)?
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
The 2021 Morgan and Peace dollars are listed in the PCGS population report under "Modern Silver and Clad Commemoratives", each with the added designation "100th Anniversary". How will the PCGS pop report list the 2023 Morgan and Peace products?? Are these still "commemoratives"?
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@Jzyskowski1 said:
Just got the update your account ‘cause shipping is about to start? Oh well I deleted a CC that was old. Info looks fine. Don’t believe they will be shipping before the 13 th. They are getting active at the mint.
Here’s an exclusive look at just one employee. Thanks 🙏
I am thrilled to get one of each Morgan and Peace on subscription. The subscriptions are the greatest thing for us collectors. I am not selling any nor having any graded. I just want one of each release for my collection.
I had to buy the 2021 Morgan and Peace dollars slabbed and graded from a dealer because I was unable to get them from the Mint. Not good at fighting crowds and bots.
@SPalladino said:
Last night, I was watching Mike Mesak hawk his 2023 Morgan unc and 2023 Peace unc in ANACS 'Advanced Release' MS70 (IIRC, $250 each) on HSN.
.
He mentioned that there are 18 ABPP buyers. There is supposed to be 10% of the mintage available to the ABPP, or about 27500 Morgan unc, and 27500 Peace unc. If there are 18 ABPP buyers, and each took a full allotment of advanced release coins, it would be about 1527 of each, the Morgan unc and Peace unc available to each ABPP buyer.
.
Mesak's 2023 Morgan unc and 2023 Peace unc in ANACS 'Advanced Release' MS70 offerings were each numbered "X of 676". So he had 676 ANACS MS70 'advanced release' coins of each, the Morgan and Peace uncs.
.
1527 likely purchased, 676 in ANACS MS70. What of the other 851? Some going to another TPG? Some not grading 70 (likely minimum grade 70 requested)?
.
Of course, the maths can be way off, but certainly raised some curiosity on my part. And got me wondering, where will these 2023 Morgan and Peace uncs grade out in the range between the 2021-S Morgans (84% 70s @ PCGS), or the 2021-D Morgans (58% 70s @ PCGS)?
It's not that simple, so don't stress about not being able to solve for the equation, since you don't have enough information to know all the variables. Sure, there are 18 ABPPs, but you don't know that they get equal allocations.
In addition, we have no way to know exactly what kind of deal Mike has with ANACS with respect to grading 70s. What we DO know is that the coins have not actually been released yet, even on an Advance Release basis, and the coins he was showing on TV were 2021s in 2023 holders.
So how does he know that he will have exactly 676? Because that's a deal he has with ANACS. They likely pulled that number of of their butts, based on speculation as to how the coins are going to grade, without having any sample at all from which to make that determination.
Is he going to be giving them 1527 to get that 676? More? Less? We have no idea, so it's pointless to speculate. We do know that the difference between a 69 and 70 is highly subjective and mostly indiscernible, so I have no doubt ANACS can hit any number it sets its mind to. In this case, it will be 676. Not 675, and not 677.
All we know is that, come hell or high water, ANACS is going to be returning 676 coins to him with that label, and he is offering them for $249 each. Why people are willing to pay a premium for that particular label, from that particular TPG is beyond me, but he pays a lot of money for that airtime, so clearly there is a market for it.
We also know that you cannot extrapolate from what Mike is offering as an ANACS pre-sale on HSN, and speculate with any accuracy how these coins are going to grade at NGC or PCGS, so it's truly pointless to try.
It's not that simple, so don't stress about not being able to solve for the equation, since you don't have enough information to know all the variables. Sure, there are 18 ABPPs, but you don't know that they get equal allocations.
In addition, we have no way to know exactly what kind of deal Mike has with ANACS with respect to grading 70s. What we DO know is that the coins have not actually been released yet, even on an Advance Release basis, and the coins he was showing on TV were 2021s in 2023 holders.
So how does he know that he will have exactly 676? Because that's a deal he has with ANACS. They likely pulled that number of of their butts, based on speculation as to how the coins are going to grade, without having any sample at all from which to make that determination.
Is he going to be giving them 1527 to get that 676? More? Less? We have no idea, so it's pointless to speculate. We do know that the difference between a 69 and 70 is highly subjective and mostly indiscernible, so I have no doubt ANACS can hit any number it sets its mind to. In this case, it will be 676. Not 675, and not 677.
All we know is that, come hell or high water, ANACS is going to be returning 676 coins to him with that label, and he is offering them for $249 each. Why people are willing to pay a premium for that particular label, from that particular TPG is beyond me, but he pays a lot of money for that airtime, so clearly there is a market for it.
We also know that you cannot extrapolate from what Mike is offering as an ANACS pre-sale on HSN, and speculate with any accuracy how these coins are going to grade at NGC or PCGS, so it's truly pointless to try.
.
Thank you - you summarized (quite well) the reasons for me writing "Of course, the maths can be way off...". And, I agree with your summary.
That said, as for "it's pointless to speculate", it is for my own entertainment. I agree that it is pointless, in this scenario, to speculate to gain some kind of edge, or for many other reasons. I am aware that speculation comes with a margin of error - sometimes huge, sometimes small. But, I find it entertaining to speculate. And for further context, this collection hobby, for me, is entirely for my own entertainment.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
It's not that simple, so don't stress about not being able to solve for the equation, since you don't have enough information to know all the variables. Sure, there are 18 ABPPs, but you don't know that they get equal allocations.
In addition, we have no way to know exactly what kind of deal Mike has with ANACS with respect to grading 70s. What we DO know is that the coins have not actually been released yet, even on an Advance Release basis, and the coins he was showing on TV were 2021s in 2023 holders.
So how does he know that he will have exactly 676? Because that's a deal he has with ANACS. They likely pulled that number of of their butts, based on speculation as to how the coins are going to grade, without having any sample at all from which to make that determination.
Is he going to be giving them 1527 to get that 676? More? Less? We have no idea, so it's pointless to speculate. We do know that the difference between a 69 and 70 is highly subjective and mostly indiscernible, so I have no doubt ANACS can hit any number it sets its mind to. In this case, it will be 676. Not 675, and not 677.
All we know is that, come hell or high water, ANACS is going to be returning 676 coins to him with that label, and he is offering them for $249 each. Why people are willing to pay a premium for that particular label, from that particular TPG is beyond me, but he pays a lot of money for that airtime, so clearly there is a market for it.
We also know that you cannot extrapolate from what Mike is offering as an ANACS pre-sale on HSN, and speculate with any accuracy how these coins are going to grade at NGC or PCGS, so it's truly pointless to try.
.
Thank you - you summarized (quite well) the reasons for me writing "Of course, the maths can be way off...". And, I agree with your summary.
That said, as for "it's pointless to speculate", it is for my own entertainment. I agree that it is pointless, in this scenario, to speculate to gain some kind of edge, or for many other reasons. I am aware that speculation comes with a margin of error - sometimes huge, sometimes small. But, I find it entertaining to speculate. And for further context, this collection hobby, for me, is entirely for my own entertainment.
In that case, I certainly do not mean to deny you your entertainment. After all, you have put in a lot of work continuing to update the thread, and that has a lot of value to a lot of us, me included!
I was just pointing out that nothing Mike Mezack does, with whatever deals he makes with the grading services, will provide any useful information at all with respect to whatever it is you are speculating on. You are speculating totally blind, based on nothing, if your input is his $249 price point and the fact that he is going to be receiving 676 MS70 coins from ANACS.
Just saw on another site, where PFS Buyers club is paying the HUGE payout of $40 if you purchase and ship them 25 of each one of the uncirculated Peace and Morgan's.
They want others to spend $3,800 for a $40 TOTAL payout (they do cover shipping!)
@HoneyMarket said:
Just saw on another site, where PFS Buyers club is paying the HUGE payout of $40 if you purchase and ship them 25 of each one of the uncirculated Peace and Morgan's.
They want others to spend $3,800 for a $40 TOTAL payout (they do cover shipping!)
LOL
That feels like a lot of operational risk for $40 bucks plus any CC points
@HoneyMarket said:
Just saw on another site, where PFS Buyers club is paying the HUGE payout of $40 if you purchase and ship them 25 of each one of the uncirculated Peace and Morgan's.
They want others to spend $3,800 for a $40 TOTAL payout (they do cover shipping!)
LOL
Big yawn. These have been so available via subscription, for so long, that pretty much everyone who has a genuine interest in them has already locked in what they want.
Anyone who wants to risk $4K for a quick 1% is more than welcome to have at it, assuming PFS is good for the money if they land with a thud. That kind of return, plus the waiting room, should mitigate or entirely eliminate the problem with bots. People looking for a lucrative flip are going to be disappointed. Anyone who actually loves the coins should be able to get all they want, at or near issue price.
Whether interest wanes over time, and they subsequently float down to bullion pricing remains TBD. Individual mintages are not unreasonable, but there are so many flavors of them that there is a chance they won't hold their value, since they are making around 2,000,000 in the aggregate. Again, TBD.
Am I the only person who thinks that instead of redesigning the reverse of the American silver Eagle a few years back...instead they should have simply ended that series and replaced it with these as an annual issue in their place?!?
@NJCoin said:
Anyone who wants to risk $4K for a quick 1% is more than welcome to have at it, assuming PFS is good for the money if they land with a thud.
Since I brought it up, I should have also further indicated that PFS Buyer Club is totally legit, professional, and pays very quickly. I sold them a Palladium Proof Coin about 5 years ago (Darn, I wish I had saved that now!) PFS does provide a UPS shipping label w/clear instructions...and as long as you have proof that you dropped it off at a UPS location, you'll get paid.
@erscolo said:
Here it is June 29th and I just ordered a subscription for the two coin reverse proof set and it has been confirmed.
Well done.
Given that the RP set went to zero subscriptions available for the first time on June 16, and that the release date is not until about November 14, it is likely that individuals will be able to add a subscriptions as they become available again due to some folks reducing their subscriptions.
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@NJCoin said:
Anyone who wants to risk $4K for a quick 1% is more than welcome to have at it, assuming PFS is good for the money if they land with a thud.
Since I brought it up, I should have also further indicated that PFS Buyer Club is totally legit, professional, and pays very quickly. I sold them a Palladium Proof Coin about 5 years ago (Darn, I wish I had saved that now!) PFS does provide a UPS shipping label w/clear instructions...and as long as you have proof that you dropped it off at a UPS location, you'll get paid.
Everyone is totally legit until they aren't. I don't know them from a hole in the wall, but it's one thing to make good on coins that can be immediately flipped for a profit, and it's quite another to make good on literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in commitments for coins that cannot be immediately resold for a profit.
Committing $4,000 to make $40 just seems stupid to me, given that PFS is not JP Morgan Chase, or the US Treasury, and there is always a chance they won't make good.
$10 a coin. Lot of risk for very minimal reward. No thanks.
How's your math skills? 😀 It's only $5! And, even then, it's more than triple what PFS is offering!
The fact that the offers are so low should tell everyone everything they need to know about the flipping potential here. The Big Boys are offering nominal premiums because the order limits mean they cannot get what they need from the Mint.
They can get them graded cheaply, and people are snapping up MS70s at double the issue price, which leaves a lot of margin for the Big Boys.
This is not a flip for the rest of us. The fact that the pre-release premiums over issue price are so low, and the MS70s are being priced where they are, means that there are going to be so many MS70s floating around that they are never going to be worth significantly more than what people are paying for them.
$10 a coin. Lot of risk for very minimal reward. No thanks.
How's your math skills? 😀 It's only $5! And, even then, it's more than triple what PFS is offering!
Just like the rest of us, He's just still in disbelief that the mint raised their prices as much as they did!!
Does anyone remember the original price of these was supposed to be $67 when we all signed up for these subscriptions and then the Mint did a switch-a-roo on the price and jacked it up toe $76!
$10 a coin. Lot of risk for very minimal reward. No thanks.
How's your math skills? 😀 It's only $5! And, even then, it's more than triple what PFS is offering!
Just like the rest of us, He's just still in disbelief that the mint raised their prices as much as they did!!
Does anyone remember the original price of these was supposed to be $67 when we all signed up for these subscriptions and then the Mint did a switch-a-roo on the price and jacked it up toe $76!
Someone at the Mint is finally on the ball, seeing as how they effortlessly grabbed an extra $2,475,000 for the American taxpayer, just on the first two. That extra $9 is not stopping them from selling out, or stopping retailers from offering small premiums to grab additional inventory.
$10 a coin. Lot of risk for very minimal reward. No thanks.
How's your math skills? 😀 It's only $5! And, even then, it's more than triple what PFS is offering!
The fact that the offers are so low should tell everyone everything they need to know about the flipping potential here. The Big Boys are offering nominal premiums because the order limits mean they cannot get what they need from the Mint.
They can get them graded cheaply, and people are snapping up MS70s at double the issue price, which leaves a lot of margin for the Big Boys.
This is not a flip for the rest of us. The fact that the pre-release premiums over issue price are so low, and the MS70s are being priced where they are, means that there are going to be so many MS70s floating around that they are never going to be worth significantly more than what people are paying for them.
What you talking about? Do I look like I can’t add? 😂
$10 a coin. Lot of risk for very minimal reward. No thanks.
How's your math skills? 😀 It's only $5! And, even then, it's more than triple what PFS is offering!
The fact that the offers are so low should tell everyone everything they need to know about the flipping potential here. The Big Boys are offering nominal premiums because the order limits mean they cannot get what they need from the Mint.
They can get them graded cheaply, and people are snapping up MS70s at double the issue price, which leaves a lot of margin for the Big Boys.
This is not a flip for the rest of us. The fact that the pre-release premiums over issue price are so low, and the MS70s are being priced where they are, means that there are going to be so many MS70s floating around that they are never going to be worth significantly more than what people are paying for them.
What you talking about? Do I look like I can’t add? 😂
Actually, you look like you CAN add. That's why I was wondering what's up? 😂
Does anyone remember the original price of these was supposed to be $67 when we all signed up for these subscriptions and then the Mint did a switch-a-roo on the price and jacked it up toe $76!
Didn't the mint leave you an out as long as you cancelled 3 days prior to them offering them to the public?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Initial premium offered by the Big boys does not tell the whole story. It does say they need more than they can get from the mint to fulfill their graded presales. Plus the best start is to go for the low hanging fruit first, If they get all they want than flip is DOA if not prices will go up. "are you feeling lucky" ?
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Comments
This is incorrect information.
Here’s Pinehursts website:
Just fact finding and not an endorsement. Although I’ve had several successful purchases.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
[Except for day to day adjustments of subscription numbers, it looks like all of the 2023 Morgan and Peace product subscriptions are essentially full]
So then...I guess nobody wanted any of these then...???
I have mentioned that there’s a lack of a winner this year. So I’m guessing that they will try with these. Thanks 🙏
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
As I said some time ago (getting a lot of pushback), the MInt did a good job this year optimizing supply and price with demand.
I was definitely skeptical on whether or not they over produced these but yeah I'd agree with the above assuming we don't see a massive dump of subscriptions ahead of the release dates. I do wonder where they'd be at if the mint hadn't increased the HHL's up to 25 for the non-reverse proof set issues.
What I'm most surprised about are the folks on eBay that are more than happy to pre-order the 2 coin sets between $350-400 on average.
On the uncirculated pieces, will the big cancel be July, 5,6,7....asking for a friend.
.
Maybe 🤠
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
So...I've lost the thread here...but I think this is correct...that some number of these have been held for the first day of sale?
You are correct. They have held coins for the first day of sale. Be ready at 12:00 and click away.
@Bullsitter
Early bidders on Ebay presales can get deals or get burnt. Remember that "Box of Chocolates" thing.
I asked my 9 year old grandson to give me a winning number for the lottery Saturday night. He said "Pop Pop play 328"
So I played $4 straight and won $2,000. He recently won a 40" Smart tv and another large basket of outdoor toys at charity events. He is my lucky charm. When I see him to give him his half I will aske him if these coins will be a winner or not.
How nice. I have a 9 year old grandson and aren’t they just awesome little whippersnappers !
I’m seeing an amazing generation coming up. Congratulations buddy. Treasure his luck or is it? 🤠
Thanks 🙏
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
[You are correct. They have held coins for the first day of sale. Be ready at 12:00 and click away.]
I just realized earlier today that I seem to be in for "only" 3 each of the Uncs but 5 of everything else...so I my need to buy 2 more Uncs on Day 1 with the riff raff!
The Mint was quoted as saying 10% of the mintage limit for each of these products will be held for day of release sales.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Should be no problem as long as they don’t change the HHL from 25. You should be able to snag a couple more
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Better hurry....all open.
Subscription Page has gone wacko after getting "about to ship" message.
I can't get in to adjust or cancel.
Has the BIG CANCEL BEGUN?
Also called the Mint and they can't get in either.....
.
All back to normal after 1 hour....
reverse proof sets remain limited to 5 per HH
Uncircs can currently be raised up to 25 ea.
Active block can be unchecked at any time prior to 3 days before SCHEDULED July 13 release date to cancel any order.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I am planning to keep 1 full 70s set for all Morgans. It's nice that we can find these now rather than look and cherry pick coins that have been discontinued imo. I had totally forgotten I had the subscription, thought they canceled it after 2022 was done with. I do like how the subscriptions allows collectors to get a set.
With the HHL of 1, my subscription has 3 per coin...was it supposed to only be 1?
where are you seeing a HHL of 1?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Ignore what I said, I just realized I was on the wrong page of the forum and replying back to a post from 2022 LOL
.
Not in a "net" sort of way. There may be a lot of folks adjusting their subscriptions downward, but there are folks gobbling up whatever is released back. Consequently, the net subscriptions available stay close to the 0-10 available range every day.
The Peace proofs had a big drop in subs four days ago, but then the sub numbers corrected back and are now similar to what they were the day before the big drop.
.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Just got the update your account ‘cause shipping is about to start? Oh well I deleted a CC that was old. Info looks fine. Don’t believe they will be shipping before the 13 th. They are getting active at the mint.
Here’s an exclusive look at just one employee. Thanks 🙏
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Last night, I was watching Mike Mesak hawk his 2023 Morgan unc and 2023 Peace unc in ANACS 'Advanced Release' MS70 (IIRC, $250 each) on HSN.
.
He mentioned that there are 18 ABPP buyers. There is supposed to be 10% of the mintage available to the ABPP, or about 27500 Morgan unc, and 27500 Peace unc. If there are 18 ABPP buyers, and each took a full allotment of advanced release coins, it would be about 1527 of each, the Morgan unc and Peace unc available to each ABPP buyer.
.
Mesak's 2023 Morgan unc and 2023 Peace unc in ANACS 'Advanced Release' MS70 offerings were each numbered "X of 676". So he had 676 ANACS MS70 'advanced release' coins of each, the Morgan and Peace uncs.
.
1527 likely purchased, 676 in ANACS MS70. What of the other 851? Some going to another TPG? Some not grading 70 (likely minimum grade 70 requested)?
.
Of course, the maths can be way off, but certainly raised some curiosity on my part. And got me wondering, where will these 2023 Morgan and Peace uncs grade out in the range between the 2021-S Morgans (84% 70s @ PCGS), or the 2021-D Morgans (58% 70s @ PCGS)?
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Well...I was able to adjust my Unc. order up a bit after being locked out for a few weeks...so I'm a happy camper now.
The 2021 Morgan and Peace dollars are listed in the PCGS population report under "Modern Silver and Clad Commemoratives", each with the added designation "100th Anniversary". How will the PCGS pop report list the 2023 Morgan and Peace products?? Are these still "commemoratives"?
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
>
And here are the supervisors:
I am thrilled to get one of each Morgan and Peace on subscription. The subscriptions are the greatest thing for us collectors. I am not selling any nor having any graded. I just want one of each release for my collection.
I had to buy the 2021 Morgan and Peace dollars slabbed and graded from a dealer because I was unable to get them from the Mint. Not good at fighting crowds and bots.
It's not that simple, so don't stress about not being able to solve for the equation, since you don't have enough information to know all the variables. Sure, there are 18 ABPPs, but you don't know that they get equal allocations.
In addition, we have no way to know exactly what kind of deal Mike has with ANACS with respect to grading 70s. What we DO know is that the coins have not actually been released yet, even on an Advance Release basis, and the coins he was showing on TV were 2021s in 2023 holders.
So how does he know that he will have exactly 676? Because that's a deal he has with ANACS. They likely pulled that number of of their butts, based on speculation as to how the coins are going to grade, without having any sample at all from which to make that determination.
Is he going to be giving them 1527 to get that 676? More? Less? We have no idea, so it's pointless to speculate. We do know that the difference between a 69 and 70 is highly subjective and mostly indiscernible, so I have no doubt ANACS can hit any number it sets its mind to. In this case, it will be 676. Not 675, and not 677.
All we know is that, come hell or high water, ANACS is going to be returning 676 coins to him with that label, and he is offering them for $249 each. Why people are willing to pay a premium for that particular label, from that particular TPG is beyond me, but he pays a lot of money for that airtime, so clearly there is a market for it.
We also know that you cannot extrapolate from what Mike is offering as an ANACS pre-sale on HSN, and speculate with any accuracy how these coins are going to grade at NGC or PCGS, so it's truly pointless to try.
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Thank you - you summarized (quite well) the reasons for me writing "Of course, the maths can be way off...". And, I agree with your summary.
That said, as for "it's pointless to speculate", it is for my own entertainment. I agree that it is pointless, in this scenario, to speculate to gain some kind of edge, or for many other reasons. I am aware that speculation comes with a margin of error - sometimes huge, sometimes small. But, I find it entertaining to speculate. And for further context, this collection hobby, for me, is entirely for my own entertainment.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
In that case, I certainly do not mean to deny you your entertainment. After all, you have put in a lot of work continuing to update the thread, and that has a lot of value to a lot of us, me included!
I was just pointing out that nothing Mike Mezack does, with whatever deals he makes with the grading services, will provide any useful information at all with respect to whatever it is you are speculating on. You are speculating totally blind, based on nothing, if your input is his $249 price point and the fact that he is going to be receiving 676 MS70 coins from ANACS.
Just saw on another site, where PFS Buyers club is paying the HUGE payout of $40 if you purchase and ship them 25 of each one of the uncirculated Peace and Morgan's.
They want others to spend $3,800 for a $40 TOTAL payout (they do cover shipping!)
LOL
BST references available on request
That feels like a lot of operational risk for $40 bucks plus any CC points
Big yawn. These have been so available via subscription, for so long, that pretty much everyone who has a genuine interest in them has already locked in what they want.
Anyone who wants to risk $4K for a quick 1% is more than welcome to have at it, assuming PFS is good for the money if they land with a thud. That kind of return, plus the waiting room, should mitigate or entirely eliminate the problem with bots. People looking for a lucrative flip are going to be disappointed. Anyone who actually loves the coins should be able to get all they want, at or near issue price.
Whether interest wanes over time, and they subsequently float down to bullion pricing remains TBD. Individual mintages are not unreasonable, but there are so many flavors of them that there is a chance they won't hold their value, since they are making around 2,000,000 in the aggregate. Again, TBD.
Am I the only person who thinks that instead of redesigning the reverse of the American silver Eagle a few years back...instead they should have simply ended that series and replaced it with these as an annual issue in their place?!?
Since I brought it up, I should have also further indicated that PFS Buyer Club is totally legit, professional, and pays very quickly. I sold them a Palladium Proof Coin about 5 years ago (Darn, I wish I had saved that now!) PFS does provide a UPS shipping label w/clear instructions...and as long as you have proof that you dropped it off at a UPS location, you'll get paid.
BST references available on request
Here it is June 29th and I just ordered a subscription for the two coin reverse proof set and it has been confirmed.
Well done.
Given that the RP set went to zero subscriptions available for the first time on June 16, and that the release date is not until about November 14, it is likely that individuals will be able to add a subscriptions as they become available again due to some folks reducing their subscriptions.
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
Everyone is totally legit until they aren't. I don't know them from a hole in the wall, but it's one thing to make good on coins that can be immediately flipped for a profit, and it's quite another to make good on literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in commitments for coins that cannot be immediately resold for a profit.
Committing $4,000 to make $40 just seems stupid to me, given that PFS is not JP Morgan Chase, or the US Treasury, and there is always a chance they won't make good.
$10 a coin. Lot of risk for very minimal reward. No thanks.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
How's your math skills? 😀 It's only $5! And, even then, it's more than triple what PFS is offering!
The fact that the offers are so low should tell everyone everything they need to know about the flipping potential here. The Big Boys are offering nominal premiums because the order limits mean they cannot get what they need from the Mint.
They can get them graded cheaply, and people are snapping up MS70s at double the issue price, which leaves a lot of margin for the Big Boys.
This is not a flip for the rest of us. The fact that the pre-release premiums over issue price are so low, and the MS70s are being priced where they are, means that there are going to be so many MS70s floating around that they are never going to be worth significantly more than what people are paying for them.
Just like the rest of us, He's just still in disbelief that the mint raised their prices as much as they did!!
Does anyone remember the original price of these was supposed to be $67 when we all signed up for these subscriptions and then the Mint did a switch-a-roo on the price and jacked it up toe $76!
BST references available on request
Someone at the Mint is finally on the ball, seeing as how they effortlessly grabbed an extra $2,475,000 for the American taxpayer, just on the first two. That extra $9 is not stopping them from selling out, or stopping retailers from offering small premiums to grab additional inventory.
What you talking about? Do I look like I can’t add? 😂
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Actually, you look like you CAN add. That's why I was wondering what's up? 😂
Didn't the mint leave you an out as long as you cancelled 3 days prior to them offering them to the public?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Initial premium offered by the Big boys does not tell the whole story. It does say they need more than they can get from the mint to fulfill their graded presales. Plus the best start is to go for the low hanging fruit first, If they get all they want than flip is DOA if not prices will go up. "are you feeling lucky" ?
P.S. Hunter says "WINNER, WINNER CHICKEN DINNER"
All available this am.......
