Crackout gone horribly wrong
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UtahCoin
Posts: 5,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
I had some vouchers I had to use up so I took a shot at a possible upgrade on this 16 D G 06. I've seen worse get a VG
Four months later this is what I get back.
Original slab
I gambled, I lost. I admit that when I first bought the coin in the original slab, I didn't spend much time thinking it might be counterfeit, after all, it was in a PCGS holder and the Cert number was legit.
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
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Comments
Dang.
My YouTube Channel
Oh man, that's a gut punch. Sorry to hear this.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
WOW!
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Yes it happens. Not often. I know someone who years ago cracked a dollar and it came back tooled (on the wings I think it was).
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
wow! I wonder what the results of a reconsideration submission would have been.
(l8-)>>
I feel your pain!
So PCGS got it wrong the first time?
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Did you call customer service on that one? Clearly the same coin.
Yep
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Wow! That sucks!
Several times. Kevin, the 1st customer service rep I spoke with agreed that it was the same coin. But the powers that be said, "Too bad, it's out of the slab. No way to be sure it's the same coin."
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
OMG. I am speechless...
I thought they would do the right thing and admit the mistake.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
I wonder how long ago it was graded. You think the barcode would identify who the grader was?
I think they owe you a REAL 16-D for that mistake!! 😂 🤣
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
"Coins Removed From PCGS Holders. The PCGS Guarantee does not apply to coins removed from PCGS holders. There are no exceptions to this policy. You remove a coin from a PCGS holder at your risk."
Terrible; but, thanks for the warning! No crackouts for me.
That's not the way it works.
They know who the graders are, and they still work there, but they won't divulge names. It was graded originally 6 years ago.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
OMG,
Thinking of resubmitting it again?
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
I feel for you. I really do.
Right. As I said before, I gambled and lost. I had hoped the picture would help my case.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
3 daughters at 3 different universities, kinda needed the $$
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Sorry to see that. From Good to Fake and no turning back.
I am sorry for your loss. That is terrible! I am perplexed as to why you thought it would upgrade to a VG08 with the reverse rim wear.
peacockcoins
So if it got past PCGS the first time, I'm wondering if it would get past NGC or ANACS??
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
After the fact doesn't help but why didn't you just send it in for reconsideration?
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
You made the original submission?
Ouch! I can't imagine. So sorry to hear.
I watched a few videos on You Tube on crackouts and after seeing the mixed results I'm just not willing to try it to cross grade from one TPG to another. I did once resend in 3 coins for reconsideration from an initial submission of mine and all 3 were upgraded. Did you actually crack it out first or send in the slab for reconsideration?
Pocket Change Inspector
I've never trusted that.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
No.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
That mint mark is so obviously (to me) bad I wonder if the original slab was genuine?
No.> @CaptHenway said:
I've got the remnants of the slab and the original insert. It all checks out. PCGS admits that.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Not to pour salt in the wound, but the mint mark does look very suspect. This is why collectors need to think and learn for themselves with a Reganesque “trust but verify” approach.
With that said, I am so sorry for your loss. I would have hoped the grading company would have stepped up to the plate especially given that it is not a huge amount of money for such a large company to eat.
Where I went wrong was in trusting the slab. (and I should know better)
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
I wish Brett was still here. I think he would have made it right. I’m not sure who the current president is or whether he or she posts here. If the President posts here, you should tag them to see if s/he will make it right. While the customer service rep is trained to regurgitate vague policy, admin can make exceptions. I’d ask to escalate it within the company. Just because a company can avoid liability doesn’t mean that it should try to do so. This would be so easy to fix.
I wouldn't expect them to divulge the graders name but that guy needs a timeout with remedial training!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
That sucks but I'd rather know the truth than to continue living the lie.
PCGS should compensate you, though.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
This is why it's called the "crack-out-game" by so many collectors, that is exactly what it is.
But here’s the flip side: once they do this one time, where do they draw the line in the future? There will be other similar cases (not many, but likely not 0). There will be cases worth much more money. Some worth less. Some with better photographic evidence. Others with worse. They have a very clear policy, and if they go around it once, it opens up a can of worms in the future. Someone is always able to send the coin in in the original holder and maintain the protection and guarantee it affords.
Just curious why? Or why not try regrade?
It will be interesting what PCGS will do when they open on Monday. Will they post a response, or will they ignore it and let it run its course, or will they close it or delete it without comment?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
YIKES !!! Can't believe it even made it in the holder to begin with. Luckily for me several years ago, I tried crossing it from an old white ANACS VG08, but it downgraded to PCGS G06 Not happy with the downgrade. I never attempted to crack out the coin tho.
Was this your coin at one time? Or are you speaking of a different coin
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
.> @alaura22 said:
Different coin that I currently own.
He got gold shield' I would expect they detect a resubmit?
(l8-)>>
Is it possible that someone took a real PCGS slabbed 1916-D dime, cracked out the dime, and then reused the original insert with a different shell, and then sealed a counterfeit coin in that slab. I've read here about unsealed slab shells occasionally getting out of PCGS and also being available from Chinese sellers. I'm not saying this is what happened here but is it possible?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I know and your reasoning is sound. It just seems like this would be a very infrequent event and if it makes only a relatively small percentage of incoming revenue in aggregate, it seems that reputation would be worth it to pay off as many of these claims as possible. The coin really isn’t borderline and it isn’t like a change in recognition in its status (e.g. micro O Morgan dollars). The coin is, to be frank, an embarrassment to those that let it slip by.
The policy is clear. If you crack out the coin, it is no longer a PCGS verified coin. Yes, they may have erred initially, but there is no longer verifiable evidence. Once out, all is lost. Sad, but the policy is clear. Cheers, RickO
Wow! I've never seen an originally PCGS graded coin then come back as a counterfeit before.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"