Crackout gone horribly wrong

UtahCoin

I had some vouchers I had to use up so I took a shot at a possible upgrade on this 16 D G 06. I've seen worse get a VG

Four months later this is what I get back.

Original slab

I gambled, I lost. I admit that when I first bought the coin in the original slab, I didn't spend much time thinking it might be counterfeit, after all, it was in a PCGS holder and the Cert number was legit.

asheland

Dang.

grote15

Oh man, that's a gut punch. Sorry to hear this.

WAYNEAS

WOW!
Wayne

lilolme

Yes it happens. Not often. I know someone who years ago cracked a dollar and it came back tooled (on the wings I think it was).

edgar

wow! I wonder what the results of a reconsideration submission would have been.

Herb_T

I feel your pain!

OAKSTAR

So PCGS got it wrong the first time?

erwindoc

Did you call customer service on that one? Clearly the same coin.

UtahCoin

@OAKSTAR said:
So PCGS got it wrong the first time?

Yep

ifthevamzarockin

Wow! That sucks!

UtahCoin

@erwindoc said:
Did you call customer service on that one? Clearly the same coin.

Several times. Kevin, the 1st customer service rep I spoke with agreed that it was the same coin. But the powers that be said, "Too bad, it's out of the slab. No way to be sure it's the same coin."

sumdunce

OMG. I am speechless...

UtahCoin

I thought they would do the right thing and admit the mistake.

OAKSTAR

@UtahCoin said:

@OAKSTAR said:
So PCGS got it wrong the first time?

Yep

I wonder how long ago it was graded. You think the barcode would identify who the grader was?

I think they owe you a REAL 16-D for that mistake!! 😂 🤣

DisneyFan

"Coins Removed From PCGS Holders. The PCGS Guarantee does not apply to coins removed from PCGS holders. There are no exceptions to this policy. You remove a coin from a PCGS holder at your risk."

Terrible; but, thanks for the warning! No crackouts for me.

SurfinxHI

@OAKSTAR said:

@UtahCoin said:

@OAKSTAR said:
So PCGS got it wrong the first time?

Yep

I wonder how long ago it was graded. You think the barcode would identify who the grader was?

I think they owe you a REAL 16-D for that mistake!! 😂 🤣

That's not the way it works.

UtahCoin

@OAKSTAR said:

@UtahCoin said:

@OAKSTAR said:
So PCGS got it wrong the first time?

Yep

I wonder how long ago it was graded. You think the barcode would identify who the grader was?

I think they owe you a REAL 16-D for that mistake!! 😂 🤣

They know who the graders are, and they still work there, but they won't divulge names. It was graded originally 6 years ago.

alaura22

OMG,
Thinking of resubmitting it again?

MWallace

I feel for you. I really do.

UtahCoin

@DisneyFan said:
"Coins Removed From PCGS Holders. The PCGS Guarantee does not apply to coins removed from PCGS holders. There are no exceptions to this policy. You remove a coin from a PCGS holder at your risk."

Terrible; but, thanks for the warning! No crackouts for me.

Right. As I said before, I gambled and lost. I had hoped the picture would help my case.

UtahCoin

3 daughters at 3 different universities, kinda needed the $$

Onastone

Sorry to see that. From Good to Fake and no turning back.

braddick

I am sorry for your loss. That is terrible! I am perplexed as to why you thought it would upgrade to a VG08 with the reverse rim wear.

OAKSTAR

So if it got past PCGS the first time, I'm wondering if it would get past NGC or ANACS??

alaura22

After the fact doesn't help but why didn't you just send it in for reconsideration?

CaptHenway

You made the original submission?

Stingray63

Ouch! I can't imagine. So sorry to hear.
I watched a few videos on You Tube on crackouts and after seeing the mixed results I'm just not willing to try it to cross grade from one TPG to another. I did once resend in 3 coins for reconsideration from an initial submission of mine and all 3 were upgraded. Did you actually crack it out first or send in the slab for reconsideration?

UtahCoin

@alaura22 said:
After the fact doesn't help but why didn't you just send it in for reconsideration?

I've never trusted that.

UtahCoin

@CaptHenway said:
You made the original submission?

No.

CaptHenway

That mint mark is so obviously (to me) bad I wonder if the original slab was genuine?

UtahCoin

@CaptHenway said:
You made the original submission?

No.> @CaptHenway said:

That mint mark is so obviously (to me) bad I wonder if the original slab was genuine?

I've got the remnants of the slab and the original insert. It all checks out. PCGS admits that.

cameonut2011

Not to pour salt in the wound, but the mint mark does look very suspect. This is why collectors need to think and learn for themselves with a Reganesque “trust but verify” approach.

With that said, I am so sorry for your loss. I would have hoped the grading company would have stepped up to the plate especially given that it is not a huge amount of money for such a large company to eat.

UtahCoin

@cameonut2011 said:
Not to pour salt in the wound, but the mint mark does look very suspect. This is why collectors need to think and learn for themselves with a Reganesque “trust but verify” approach.

With that said, I am so sorry for your loss. I would have hoped the grading company would have stepped up to the plate especially given that it is not a huge amount of money for such a large company to eat.

Where I went wrong was in trusting the slab. (and I should know better)

LanceNewmanOCC

cameonut2011

I wish Brett was still here. I think he would have made it right. I’m not sure who the current president is or whether he or she posts here. If the President posts here, you should tag them to see if s/he will make it right. While the customer service rep is trained to regurgitate vague policy, admin can make exceptions. I’d ask to escalate it within the company. Just because a company can avoid liability doesn’t mean that it should try to do so. This would be so easy to fix.

OAKSTAR

@UtahCoin said:

@OAKSTAR said:

@UtahCoin said:

@OAKSTAR said:
So PCGS got it wrong the first time?

Yep

I wonder how long ago it was graded. You think the barcode would identify who the grader was?

I think they owe you a REAL 16-D for that mistake!! 😂 🤣

They know who the graders are, and they still work there, but they won't divulge names. It was graded originally 6 years ago.

I wouldn't expect them to divulge the graders name but that guy needs a timeout with remedial training!

Walkerfan

That sucks but I'd rather know the truth than to continue living the lie.

PCGS should compensate you, though.

Maywood

This is why it's called the "crack-out-game" by so many collectors, that is exactly what it is.

airplanenut

@cameonut2011 said:
Not to pour salt in the wound, but the mint mark does look very suspect. This is why collectors need to think and learn for themselves with a Reganesque “trust but verify” approach.

With that said, I am so sorry for your loss. I would have hoped the grading company would have stepped up to the plate especially given that it is not a huge amount of money for such a large company to eat.

But here’s the flip side: once they do this one time, where do they draw the line in the future? There will be other similar cases (not many, but likely not 0). There will be cases worth much more money. Some worth less. Some with better photographic evidence. Others with worse. They have a very clear policy, and if they go around it once, it opens up a can of worms in the future. Someone is always able to send the coin in in the original holder and maintain the protection and guarantee it affords.

TurtleCat

@UtahCoin said:

@alaura22 said:
After the fact doesn't help but why didn't you just send it in for reconsideration?

I've never trusted that.

Just curious why? Or why not try regrade?

PerryHall

It will be interesting what PCGS will do when they open on Monday. Will they post a response, or will they ignore it and let it run its course, or will they close it or delete it without comment?

robkool

YIKES !!! Can't believe it even made it in the holder to begin with. Luckily for me several years ago, I tried crossing it from an old white ANACS VG08, but it downgraded to PCGS G06 Not happy with the downgrade. I never attempted to crack out the coin tho.

alaura22

@robkool said:
YIKES !!! Can't believe it even made it in the holder to begin with. Luckily for me several years ago, I tried crossing it from an old white ANACS VG08, but it downgraded to PCGS G06 Not happy with the downgrade. I never attempted to crack out the coin tho.

Was this your coin at one time? Or are you speaking of a different coin

robkool

.> @alaura22 said:

@robkool said:
YIKES !!! Can't believe it even made it in the holder to begin with. Luckily for me several years ago, I tried crossing it from an old white ANACS VG08, but it downgraded to PCGS G06 Not happy with the downgrade. I never attempted to crack out the coin tho.

Was this your coin at one time? Or are you speaking of a different coin

Different coin that I currently own.

robkool

edgar

@alaura22 said:
OMG,
Thinking of resubmitting it again?

He got gold shield' I would expect they detect a resubmit?

PerryHall

Is it possible that someone took a real PCGS slabbed 1916-D dime, cracked out the dime, and then reused the original insert with a different shell, and then sealed a counterfeit coin in that slab. I've read here about unsealed slab shells occasionally getting out of PCGS and also being available from Chinese sellers. I'm not saying this is what happened here but is it possible?

cameonut2011

@airplanenut said:

@cameonut2011 said:
Not to pour salt in the wound, but the mint mark does look very suspect. This is why collectors need to think and learn for themselves with a Reganesque “trust but verify” approach.

With that said, I am so sorry for your loss. I would have hoped the grading company would have stepped up to the plate especially given that it is not a huge amount of money for such a large company to eat.

But here’s the flip side: once they do this one time, where do they draw the line in the future? There will be other similar cases (not many, but likely not 0). There will be cases worth much more money. Some worth less. Some with better photographic evidence. Others with worse. They have a very clear policy, and if they go around it once, it opens up a can of worms in the future. Someone is always able to send the coin in in the original holder and maintain the protection and guarantee it affords.

I know and your reasoning is sound. It just seems like this would be a very infrequent event and if it makes only a relatively small percentage of incoming revenue in aggregate, it seems that reputation would be worth it to pay off as many of these claims as possible. The coin really isn’t borderline and it isn’t like a change in recognition in its status (e.g. micro O Morgan dollars). The coin is, to be frank, an embarrassment to those that let it slip by.

ricko

The policy is clear. If you crack out the coin, it is no longer a PCGS verified coin. Yes, they may have erred initially, but there is no longer verifiable evidence. Once out, all is lost. Sad, but the policy is clear. Cheers, RickO

Steven59

Wow! I've never seen an originally PCGS graded coin then come back as a counterfeit before.