1964 Kennedy Special Strike Coin
Peaceman1
Posts: 61 ✭
Hello Everyone,
It has been a little while. I opted to start this fresh rather than add to previous same subject coin. Wound up with Covid and was down for a good month.
Looking through many of my kennedys, I came across this coin that has special surfaces especially noticeable when photographed.
At first, I was like yeah sure... I noticed a mark on the C of America on reverse and looked closer.
It is a die break traveling to the rim and a small one also directly above the A.
I looked through my library of images of the graded special strike test coins and these breaks are on them, some more noticeable than others.
I looked over the obverse and reverse closely and believe this indeed really is one of these coins.
I am posting images of it and as always appreciate input as I definitely do not know everything.
Comments
Not an SMS. A very ordinary looking 64 Kennedy.
Glad you are better.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1069708/1964-denver-mint-set-with-special-finish
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1068990/1964-kennedy-half-sms
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1068961/1964-kennedy-different-bold-scuffed-looking-sms
There were several hundred million of these minted.
Let's just put it this way: no TPG will ever certify a 1964 coin a SMS without it tracing to Eva Adam's estate. (She was the director in 1964 and all of the known SMS coins for that year have been traced to her. This means that no 1964 SMS coin, if they do truly exist, will ever be found in circulation. It's not going to happen, and if it does, I'll be shocked.
Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.
I’m going to say that you need to adjust your idea of what a sms coin looks like. I say this based upon the images of course, but also that you are convinced your Denver is an sms coin plus you’re trying to imagine your way to its sms existence. I point you towards explaining the statement regarding: added mint mark after strike.
After these mistakes, take a long look at the overall quality of an sms coin on PCGS’ CoinFacts - https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1964-50c-sms/6844
Also on the CoinFacts page is a write up about them. Read that and look at the SMS photos.
https://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/38574690_183286504_Max.jpg
I can grasp what you are saying. I wondered how all the other found denominations equalling various many amounts versus the kennedy were graded not connected to Eva Adams??
I sent off several with a few matching under a scope front and back with a note along with the images inquiring about what you just said.
Basically if anything definitely struck by exact same dies would they opt to notate that the coin indeed was struck by same dies.
Maybe that's why taking extra long time??
Sent in months ago. The Lincoln was a definite match with all those long polishing lines...
I said, I guess if not then they are cloning those marks??? Like a fingerprint. Some may be similar but definitely not exact. I never met Eva in my life and coins I sent came from mint set.
In any case.. worth a good shot.
You can't argue with a delusion.
There is absolutely nothing special about the Kennedy Half you picture.
If you learned what the sms look is, you’d realize you just struck a match to your cash
PCGS grading has been taking extremely long time for well over a year. It’s not your order, it’s everyone
I realize SMS is sharp and just about proof looking. I have a few 66 that are no better quality than the image I posted. Has marks and not the best strike.
I look at it, ok..
Square rim, same type reading, different finish... maybe might be something...
Why would they business strike with square rim, sms type reeding, and a special finish???
So, they did that??? Don't think so.
Remember the old musical "Promises, Promises"?
Well, I've heard Burt Bacharach is coming out of retirement at age 93 to write a new musical called "Delusions, Delusions".
Part of what separates the sms coins from a business strike are the die polishing lines all across the fields of the coins.
The marks are on the die and will be on all SMS coins. The die polishing lines are visible on the coin image provided. None of your coins show die polishing lines, but they do show short lines from die fatigue(long term use). Do not confuse the two.
You can lead a horse to water...but this one definitely ain't drinking...just sayin'
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Camera seems to hide lines.. this coin i just took pic of is loaded front and back..
I get what your saying, heavy long polishing lines all over...
I thought allot of polishing lines on coin I posted but most important is matching die breaks in several locations exact same as graded, flow, square rim, finish that is on it which the matching scribble or marks in exact locations told me same dies at minimal were used.
I can see some things as a regular match but just a plethora of things matching..
Oh well.. toss back in the safe.
Good night all..
A die crack disqualifies it immediately. The so called sms coins were struck from new specially prepared dies, there would be no die crack which is evidence of a wore out die.
No coins of any denomination that were not directly connected to Eva Adams have been certified as 1964 sms coins. It is entirely possible that normal coins were struck by the same dies until they wore out, but if they weren't traced to Eva Adams, they aren't and won't be certified as sms.
Continuing to post pics is a waste of time. Many knowledgeable numismatists have told you it isn't an SMS.
If you still believe everyone is wrong, and you really have something, then you need to send it in and have it authenticated. Short if that, you'll continue to have a common 1964 half in the eyes of the collecting community. Forget about selling it or exhibiting it without authentication.
By continuing to post this coin with the unrealistic expectation of changing opinions is only lowering yourself to Troll status and likely to get you on many "ignore" lists. Time to send it in, or quit insisting you have something that you don't.
After going through all the links and images, (several times, now, and in the past), I am convinced your half is not an SMS. Among all the points as described above, it does not have the small mark below the 4 crosslet. Cheers, RickO
A coin could be from the same dies but that doesn't matter. They aren't going to strike a few coins then throw a good set of dies in the trash.
I am not seeing any of the same die polish on your coin, or any of the sms characteristics for that matter.
Realize that some 1964 halves are of higher quality than others, that is normal production variance.
Collector, occasional seller
At least silver is up again today.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
You posted a picture of a coin loaded with die polishing lines that can't be seen in the picture?
You can only picture them with an imaginary camera.
...soon to appear on Etsy. lol
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Interesting surfaces, looks like little arrow at corner of the "B". Lips different distorted looking, tiny SP initials in various places like under the 4 on angle... Strange...
Maybe blurrier photos and more magnification would do the trick.
Ya never know... Magnified under 4 of graded all show SP on angle very small. That is the mark under it and why it is present....Usually part of the P as the S is on the base of the 4. If you enlarge and look closely you will see the S and most of the P.
Corner of the B has an S, the P is on top of the B.
Left upper Corner of W and neck has a P.
The coin edge face has SP and other doodles on it...
Lips were polished and look different than all others...
Or above Left of ear in hair there are similar on hair strands.. P and other letters as on all graded...
Have a good day!!
Tiny SP initials?
Yes, little tiny S or P Or SP or other various little letters are part of the special surfaces not on other coins.
Some on rim area are marked 1/2 SP and other numbers letters or scribble nothing that may at first only look like marks.
All of these little marks found on these only in same general locations but may be off slightly due to doubling.. Some graded have numerals on letters, some don't.
Aghhh... now we are getting somewhere...
The satin is more precise in appearance.
There are some Flared G that have goofy letter marks on surface but no polishing lines like the straight G.
Sloppy looking...
Really, I can enlarge and search for the S above the P next to the I and know that I just found a Satin.
Not on any other... loads of fun... glad I am finally able to show exactly what I am talking about so I'm not laughed at so much...
It's all in fun but I was serious and images I took Snap shots from are graded examples. Little letters/numbers are the pattern along with multi directional polishing gives a satin silky look.
Have a Blessed day everyone...
Emerald, is that you?
Too funny!!
The arrow points to SP mark on top of the B. SP on center Bottom Tail Feathers...
Never drink and post.
Just say "no"!
So if you’re seeing SP’s is that why some slabs are marked with the designation? Example- SP-70 🤨
I’m asking for a friend, he’s new around here🙀
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Why haven't you sent it in?
You're not going to convince people that you have something, especially when extremely credible experts who have actually handled 64SMS coins have told you it's a business strike.
Posting additional pics is worthless. Until it's been authenticated, it's just your opinion, and that opinion is quickly falling into the troll category.
Send it in already and quit trolling the board
I don’t know whether this applies in this particular case, but some people would rather hold onto a dream than face reality. And obtaining the opinion of a highly respected grading company can make it more difficult to avoid reality.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Based on the numerous "How could they?" posts here about the grades that are assigned to coins by the TPGs, it's not that difficult.
I think you indeed do have a1964 SMS half dollar - how cool is that!! You scored big time and this coin will auction for millions!! I see all the tell tale marks in those incredible photos you provided. No need to send for grading - they will just screw it up. Good score man!
(sometimes best just to feed the lion)
Cheers
Che ? Shouldn’t it be graded to get the SP designation 😂
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
The people who grade coins as well as the experts on this message board don’t know much about coins. If peaceman wants this coin to be a 64 SMS half he had better not let any experts look at it... why let “facts” get in the way of a huge score like this!??!
Those pesky facts!!
We've currently got a thread arguing that a 65+ CAC is incorrectly graded because it doesn't look exactly like another 65+ CAC. So even two expert opinions which are the consensus of 6 experts is not enough to end debate.
Even knowing this, the 64 SMS coins are still an open slot in many registry sets. It like an empty eye staring at me worth only 1 point.
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Will somebody just give the guy A MILLION dollars for it so we can get this over with?
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Sure- here it is (camera seems to hide most of it).
I see S P all over it.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Here you go 😉
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶