Being in the business, I see slabbed coins often. I see a LOT of low end coins for the grade and some high end.
I like the service CAC provides. I prefer to add coins with the CAC sticker to my collection, but it's not mandatory. I buy nice coins, stickered or not. If they are already stickered, it's a sweet bonus for me. I will pay a slight premium if they are stickered, but not bury myself. I usually get stickered coins below Greysheet.
Being in the business... I usually get stickered coins below Greysheet.
But wait, wasn't CAC created as a benefit to collectors? Weren't the TPG's created out of the kindness of the hearts of dealers to help collectors?
TPG's were created to accommodate sight-unseen dealer transactions, and dealers are the largest submitters. Largest submitters to CAC are dealers. Astute collectors can use both to their advantage, if crackouts, flipping, or making a profit on each deal is important to them. For long term pure collectors, CAC is another obstacle created by the coin industry that adds cost to a coin.
AMRC said:
literally hundreds of millions of dollars in value CAC has put in COLLECTORS POCKETS. Have you seen a Grey Sheet? PS. CAC is a service for collectors
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
Does CAC keep a record of which slab numbers they have already graded? I wonder how many times the same slab has been submitted because it belongs to a new buyer now and they didn't know the seller had already submitted it but failed to get the sticker.
@micotu said:
Does CAC keep a record of which slab numbers they have already graded? I wonder how many times the same slab has been submitted because it belongs to a new buyer now and they didn't know the seller had already submitted it but failed to get the sticker.
My understanding is they do, but they will definitely NOT release that information for business reasons. If that data were made publicly available, it would hurt the sale of rejected coins.
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Being in the business... I usually get stickered coins below Greysheet.
But wait, wasn't CAC created as a benefit to collectors? Weren't the TPG's created out of the kindness of the hearts of dealers to help collectors?
TPG's were created to accommodate sight-unseen dealer transactions, and dealers are the largest submitters. Largest submitters to CAC are dealers. Astute collectors can use both to their advantage, if crackouts, flipping, or making a profit on each deal is important to them. For long term pure collectors, CAC is another obstacle created by the coin industry that adds cost to a coin.
AMRC said:
literally hundreds of millions of dollars in value CAC has put in COLLECTORS POCKETS. Have you seen a Grey Sheet? PS. CAC is a service for collectors
Yes, CAC (usually) adds cost to a coin. It also usually adds value, often in an amount greater than the cost to the submitter. Many collectors are among the submitters and they don’t have to pay the fee for their coins, unless they sticker.
In addition to adding cost and value, CAC provides additional screening of coins for their quality at the assigned grade. That additional screening is done by eyes which are widely acknowledged as among, if not, the very best.
I believe that many collectors and dealers can benefit from CAC. And that’s even if they don’t realize it or admit it.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion and free to accept or reject the concept of CAC and CAC coins. With or without CAC, it’s too bad that more collectors don’t have more fun.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
With or without CAC, it’s too bad that more collectors don’t have more fun.
Reading CAC threads can be fun!
Actually, I am having more fun than ever despite CAC. Since coming back into buying three year ago, over 50 newps for my 1794-1807 half dollar die variety collection, and a couple of early $10's. About a third have stickers, which added cost. Value? Doesn't matter, I don't buy for resale and will probably never see my collection get sold.
Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
With or without CAC, it’s too bad that more collectors don’t have more fun.
Reading CAC threads can be fun!
Actually, I am having more fun than ever despite CAC. Since coming back into buying three year ago, over 50 newps for my 1794-1807 half dollar die variety collection, and a couple of early $10's. About a third have stickers, which added cost. Value? Doesn't matter, I don't buy for resale and will probably never see my collection get sold.
I'm truly glad that you're having so much fun. That's the way it should be.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
He must have been distracted when he applied the sticker pictured below. Placing a sticker on a label often covers important label information. Why is the eye appeal of the sticker itself never discussed? As for the coins, I have seen many stickered coins that were in one way or another disappointing. My Box of Twenty is half full and does not disappoint. One is a CAC'ed, just to be fair. I bought it years ago before I knew what CAC meant. It makes for a good story;)
He must have been distracted when he applied the sticker pictured below. Placing a sticker on a label often covers important label information. Why is the eye appeal of the sticker itself never discussed? As for the coins, I have seen many stickered coins that were in one way or another disappointing. My Box of Twenty is half full of Premium Quality specimens. One is a CAC'ed, just to be fair. I bought it years ago before I knew what CAC meant. It makes for a good story;)
@winesteven said:
My understanding is they do, but they will definitely NOT release that information for business reasons. If that data were made publicly available, it would hurt the sale of rejected coins.
If I cared, I'd just re-grade & get a new cert#
You can take another run at CAC or just call it "fresh"
Dealers do it so often there should be a vacuum tube from CA to NJ.
@1northcoin said:
The title of the thread though is misleading. Rather than "change of heart" it turns out to be about a "hardened heart" holding to an unchanged view - which is certainly understandable and OK in and of itself.
@BillJones said:
The title of the OP was false advertising.
Yet no correction has been made. Maybe "false advertising" is a bit harsh, but cleverly placed "click bait" might fit.
@1northcoin said:
The title of the thread though is misleading. Rather than "change of heart" it turns out to be about a "hardened heart" holding to an unchanged view - which is certainly understandable and OK in and of itself.
@BillJones said:
The title of the OP was false advertising.
Yet no correction has been made. Maybe "false advertising" is a bit harsh, but cleverly placed "click bait" might fit.
I can not even believe there are multiple posts about the title of my thread (I changed it so everyone can relax). The change of heart i referenced was I went to an active supporter of a service I felt helpful to the numismatic community to deciding that such threads were not a positive experience for me. The fact that people are upset by the original title has confirmed that I made the right decision.
@1northcoin said:
The title of the thread though is misleading. Rather than "change of heart" it turns out to be about a "hardened heart" holding to an unchanged view - which is certainly understandable and OK in and of itself.
@BillJones said:
The title of the OP was false advertising.
Yet no correction has been made. Maybe "false advertising" is a bit harsh, but cleverly placed "click bait" might fit.
I can not even believe there are multiple posts about the title of my thread (I changed it so everyone can relax). The change of heart i referenced was I went to an active supporter of a service I felt helpful to the numismatic community to deciding that such threads were not a positive experience for me. The fact that people are upset by the original title has confirmed that I made the right decision.
I understood it, after reading your original post. But, I will admit that when I clicked on it, I thought you were abandoning CAC.
I agree. A lot of material is saleable raw. It will sell for less but you'll also have less into it. After all, it's not the top line that matters. It's the bottom line.
That's why, as I say, I hate absolutes. The advice given here to slab and CAC everything to maximize sales for your heirs often ignores the cost of that. If you need to spend $60 to slab and CAC $100 coin, you might better just melt it.
But, it's your money. Throw it around however you want.
The thing that surprises me most around here is the amount of collection churn that goes on.
Yikes, I am apparently throwing my money around because I submit my coins to CAC so I can get one of the best opinions in numismatics for my collection. Even for $100 ones, 'tis a lot cheaper tuition than buying raw coins only to find out you've been had. Oh wait, that happened to me, bought raw coins on ebay only to find out indeed that I was had once I got the results back from a TPG. So yes, I guess your absolutes above do make sense - it's the bottom line.
Not really thrilled about contributing a CAC post....fatigued. But I will say there are some fabulously talented self proclaimed super graders on this thread that should send in to CAC.
They would be assured gold CAC stickers, the hottest of the white hot auction item, selling for multiples of price guide.
@BillJones said:
It was a false title. You are still a CAC fanatic, and always will be because you have lot of money tied up in it. I thought that you might add something, like a line of caution about how you still need to know how to grade even with CAC. It is possible to get buried in a CAC approved coin because of grading issues.
But that was the wrong interpretation.
By the same logic one could conclude that you are not a fan of CAC because you have buried yourself in coins which will never CAC and have a lot of money tied up in coins which have fallen out of favor as a result.
Point being, I don’t think assigning motives to other people is at all helpful on either side of your personal views. Enjoy the hobby as you see fit.
@BillJones said:
It was a false title. You are still a CAC fanatic, and always will be because you have lot of money tied up in it. I thought that you might add something, like a line of caution about how you still need to know how to grade even with CAC. It is possible to get buried in a CAC approved coin because of grading issues.
But that was the wrong interpretation.
By the same logic one could conclude that you are not a fan of CAC because you have buried yourself in coins which will never CAC and have a lot of money tied up in coins which have fallen out of favor as a result.
Point being, I don’t think assigning motives to other people is at all helpful on either side of your personal views. Enjoy the hobby as you see fit.
It's also really hard to get buried in a CAC coin because you have both the TPGS and CAC standing behind the opinion. That is one of the reasons people like me prefer TPGS with or without CAC when buying coins sight unseen on the internet.
Keep up the breezing folks. When in doubt, check the data. I guess the higher prices realized for CAC coins is all just because collectors are dumb right? [sarcasim]. Ugh.....
CAC was created by a guy who was instrumental in the formation of PCGS and NGC. He knows coins and makes a market in the coins he certifies. He must be doing something right based on prices and adoption. Please ignore all CAC coins if they do not mean anything to you. We do not need any more pressure on prices.
MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
@BillJones said:
It was a false title. You are still a CAC fanatic, and always will be because you have lot of money tied up in it. I thought that you might add something, like a line of caution about how you still need to know how to grade even with CAC. It is possible to get buried in a CAC approved coin because of grading issues.
But that was the wrong interpretation.
By the same logic one could conclude that you are not a fan of CAC because you have buried yourself in coins which will never CAC and have a lot of money tied up in coins which have fallen out of favor as a result.
Point being, I don’t think assigning motives to other people is at all helpful on either side of your personal views. Enjoy the hobby as you see fit.
It's also really hard to get buried in a CAC coin because you have both the TPGS and CAC standing behind the opinion. That is one of the reasons people like me prefer TPGS with or without CAC when buying coins sight unseen on the internet.
No, it's actually pretty easy. I can point you to any number of CAC coins currently available at grossly inflated asking prices.
@BillJones said:
It was a false title. You are still a CAC fanatic, and always will be because you have lot of money tied up in it. I thought that you might add something, like a line of caution about how you still need to know how to grade even with CAC. It is possible to get buried in a CAC approved coin because of grading issues.
But that was the wrong interpretation.
By the same logic one could conclude that you are not a fan of CAC because you have buried yourself in coins which will never CAC and have a lot of money tied up in coins which have fallen out of favor as a result.
Point being, I don’t think assigning motives to other people is at all helpful on either side of your personal views. Enjoy the hobby as you see fit.
Nice put down after I did you a favor. I sold a coin back to you that I didn’t want to sell because I thought I should do it as a favor to another collector. Instead you only wanted the piece to make a trade.
Don’t ask for any more favors.
And we shall see if I am buried because of CAC. I don’t like CAC because one man should not have that much influence over the entire U.S. coin market. He’s an expert, but he is not perfect.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
It was a false title. You are still a CAC fanatic, and always will be because you have lot of money tied up in it. I thought that you might add something, like a line of caution about how you still need to know how to grade even with CAC. It is possible to get buried in a CAC approved coin because of grading issues.
But that was the wrong interpretation.
By the same logic one could conclude that you are not a fan of CAC because you have buried yourself in coins which will never CAC and have a lot of money tied up in coins which have fallen out of favor as a result.
Point being, I don’t think assigning motives to other people is at all helpful on either side of your personal views. Enjoy the hobby as you see fit.
It's also really hard to get buried in a CAC coin because you have both the TPGS and CAC standing behind the opinion. That is one of the reasons people like me prefer TPGS with or without CAC when buying coins sight unseen on the internet.
No, it's actually pretty easy. I can point you to any number of CAC coins currently available at grossly inflated asking prices.
Might be the reason they are available...
Go to ETSY, I can show you hundreds of raw coins at even more inflated prices. And, of course, there's also counterfeit coins at bargain prices.
So, do you think it is easier to get buried in a PCGS/CAC coin or a raw coin? We both know the answer, don't we?
@BillJones said:
It was a false title. You are still a CAC fanatic, and always will be because you have lot of money tied up in it. I thought that you might add something, like a line of caution about how you still need to know how to grade even with CAC. It is possible to get buried in a CAC approved coin because of grading issues.
But that was the wrong interpretation.
By the same logic one could conclude that you are not a fan of CAC because you have buried yourself in coins which will never CAC and have a lot of money tied up in coins which have fallen out of favor as a result.
Point being, I don’t think assigning motives to other people is at all helpful on either side of your personal views. Enjoy the hobby as you see fit.
Nice put down after I did you a favor. I sold a coin back to you that I didn’t want to sell because I thought I should do it as a favor to another collector. Instead you only wanted the piece to make a trade.
Don’t ask for any more favors.
And we shall see if I am buried because of CAC. I don’t like CAC because one man should not have that much influence over the entire U.S. coin market. He’s an expert, but he is not perfect.
Bill I'm not putting you down. I'm pointing out that you are assigning a motivation to another person without any basis and by that same logic, and your position on the matter, I could conclude as I did. I'm not saying that is true, I'm saying it isn't fair to either of you to generalize as such.
@BillJones said:
It was a false title. You are still a CAC fanatic, and always will be because you have lot of money tied up in it. I thought that you might add something, like a line of caution about how you still need to know how to grade even with CAC. It is possible to get buried in a CAC approved coin because of grading issues.
But that was the wrong interpretation.
By the same logic one could conclude that you are not a fan of CAC because you have buried yourself in coins which will never CAC and have a lot of money tied up in coins which have fallen out of favor as a result.
Point being, I don’t think assigning motives to other people is at all helpful on either side of your personal views. Enjoy the hobby as you see fit.
It's also really hard to get buried in a CAC coin because you have both the TPGS and CAC standing behind the opinion. That is one of the reasons people like me prefer TPGS with or without CAC when buying coins sight unseen on the internet.
No, it's actually pretty easy. I can point you to any number of CAC coins currently available at grossly inflated asking prices.
Might be the reason they are available...
Go to ETSY, I can show you hundreds of raw coins at even more inflated prices. And, of course, there's also counterfeit coins at bargain prices.
So, do you think it is easier to get buried in a PCGS/CAC coin or a raw coin? We both know the answer, don't we?
Typical @jmlanzaf . I refute his initial assertion unequivocally, so he moves the goalposts to try to save face. Yawn.
I really don’t care whether my coins are CAC or not. It’s simply all in the deal for me what I can acquire for / sell for. If CAC crowd wants CAC they can buy out in mkt place, buy from me, or make their own (CAC subm).
In other areas I do World, Mods, Paper Money, raw inexpensive collector coins - CAC not even an issue there.
@BillJones said:
It was a false title. You are still a CAC fanatic, and always will be because you have lot of money tied up in it. I thought that you might add something, like a line of caution about how you still need to know how to grade even with CAC. It is possible to get buried in a CAC approved coin because of grading issues.
But that was the wrong interpretation.
By the same logic one could conclude that you are not a fan of CAC because you have buried yourself in coins which will never CAC and have a lot of money tied up in coins which have fallen out of favor as a result.
Point being, I don’t think assigning motives to other people is at all helpful on either side of your personal views. Enjoy the hobby as you see fit.
It's also really hard to get buried in a CAC coin because you have both the TPGS and CAC standing behind the opinion. That is one of the reasons people like me prefer TPGS with or without CAC when buying coins sight unseen on the internet.
No, it's actually pretty easy. I can point you to any number of CAC coins currently available at grossly inflated asking prices.
Might be the reason they are available...
Go to ETSY, I can show you hundreds of raw coins at even more inflated prices. And, of course, there's also counterfeit coins at bargain prices.
So, do you think it is easier to get buried in a PCGS/CAC coin or a raw coin? We both know the answer, don't we?
Typical @jmlanzaf . I refute his initial assertion unequivocally, so he moves the goalposts to try to save face. Yawn.
That's not moving the goal post. I said it wasn't easy to get buried in CAC. Define easy. You said you could show me a couple overpriced CAC coins for sale. That proves nothing since you didn't show us any and no one bought them.
Again, define easy. If there are ridiculously priced CAC coins out there, how does that make it "easy" to get buried unless you can't read a price guide?
Typical @coinjunkie. Picking nits and starting a semantic debate over the meaning of easy.
I stand by my original assertion. No face saving required.
I prefer a coin that can stand on its own. Not a coin when people look at it they say “Well it is in the holder”. I want a coin that is so nice the first thought is why doesn’t that have a green booger on it.
@BillJones said:
It was a false title. You are still a CAC fanatic, and always will be because you have lot of money tied up in it. I thought that you might add something, like a line of caution about how you still need to know how to grade even with CAC. It is possible to get buried in a CAC approved coin because of grading issues.
But that was the wrong interpretation.
By the same logic one could conclude that you are not a fan of CAC because you have buried yourself in coins which will never CAC and have a lot of money tied up in coins which have fallen out of favor as a result.
Point being, I don’t think assigning motives to other people is at all helpful on either side of your personal views. Enjoy the hobby as you see fit.
It's also really hard to get buried in a CAC coin because you have both the TPGS and CAC standing behind the opinion. That is one of the reasons people like me prefer TPGS with or without CAC when buying coins sight unseen on the internet.
No, it's actually pretty easy. I can point you to any number of CAC coins currently available at grossly inflated asking prices.
Might be the reason they are available...
Go to ETSY, I can show you hundreds of raw coins at even more inflated prices. And, of course, there's also counterfeit coins at bargain prices.
So, do you think it is easier to get buried in a PCGS/CAC coin or a raw coin? We both know the answer, don't we?
Typical @jmlanzaf . I refute his initial assertion unequivocally, so he moves the goalposts to try to save face. Yawn.
That's not moving the goal post. I said it wasn't easy to get buried in CAC. Define easy. You said you could show me a couple overpriced CAC coins for sale. That proves nothing since you didn't show us any and no one bought them.
Again, define easy. If there are ridiculously priced CAC coins out there, how does that make it "easy" to get buried unless you can't read a price guide?
Typical @coinjunkie. Picking nits and starting a semantic debate over the meaning of easy.
I stand by my original assertion. No face saving required.
Right, coins always sell for around price guide. Ever heard of auction fever?
@BillJones said:
It was a false title. You are still a CAC fanatic, and always will be because you have lot of money tied up in it. I thought that you might add something, like a line of caution about how you still need to know how to grade even with CAC. It is possible to get buried in a CAC approved coin because of grading issues.
But that was the wrong interpretation.
By the same logic one could conclude that you are not a fan of CAC because you have buried yourself in coins which will never CAC and have a lot of money tied up in coins which have fallen out of favor as a result.
Point being, I don’t think assigning motives to other people is at all helpful on either side of your personal views. Enjoy the hobby as you see fit.
It's also really hard to get buried in a CAC coin because you have both the TPGS and CAC standing behind the opinion. That is one of the reasons people like me prefer TPGS with or without CAC when buying coins sight unseen on the internet.
No, it's actually pretty easy. I can point you to any number of CAC coins currently available at grossly inflated asking prices.
Might be the reason they are available...
Go to ETSY, I can show you hundreds of raw coins at even more inflated prices. And, of course, there's also counterfeit coins at bargain prices.
So, do you think it is easier to get buried in a PCGS/CAC coin or a raw coin? We both know the answer, don't we?
Typical @jmlanzaf . I refute his initial assertion unequivocally, so he moves the goalposts to try to save face. Yawn.
That's not moving the goal post. I said it wasn't easy to get buried in CAC. Define easy. You said you could show me a couple overpriced CAC coins for sale. That proves nothing since you didn't show us any and no one bought them.
Again, define easy. If there are ridiculously priced CAC coins out there, how does that make it "easy" to get buried unless you can't read a price guide?
Typical @coinjunkie. Picking nits and starting a semantic debate over the meaning of easy.
I stand by my original assertion. No face saving required.
Right, coins always sell for around price guide. Ever heard of auction fever?
You're not worth arguing with.
And yet you picked the fight. All because you didn't like my use of the word "hard".
@rec78 said:
I am 100% not interested in CAC. I would be happier if they never existed. IMHO a totally unnecessary company. I don't think that I have any slabs with a CAC sticker. (I bought all of them before CAC existed)
This is the frustration of long time collectors who carefully bought their coins before CAC existed. As I understand, along with the cost and risk of mailing coins, CAC does not attend shows, requires ANA membership and references from three coin dealers.
@rec78 said:
I am 100% not interested in CAC. I would be happier if they never existed. IMHO a totally unnecessary company. I don't think that I have any slabs with a CAC sticker. (I bought all of them before CAC existed)
This is the frustration of long time collectors who carefully bought their coins before CAC existed.
With regards to cost and risk, why is having CAC review the coins any different from having them slabbed?
@rec78 said:
I am 100% not interested in CAC. I would be happier if they never existed. IMHO a totally unnecessary company. I don't think that I have any slabs with a CAC sticker. (I bought all of them before CAC existed)
This is the frustration of long time collectors who carefully bought their coins before CAC existed.
With regards to cost and risk, why is having CAC review the coins any different from having them slabbed?
@rec78 said:
I am 100% not interested in CAC. I would be happier if they never existed. IMHO a totally unnecessary company. I don't think that I have any slabs with a CAC sticker. (I bought all of them before CAC existed)
This is the frustration of long time collectors who carefully bought their coins before CAC existed.
With regards to cost and risk, why is having CAC review the coins any different from having them slabbed?
I'm sure there's going to be a really compelling argument made.
@DisneyFan said:
Who said anything about buying unslabed coins?
You mentioned "long time collectors". Perhaps you're unaware of this, but lots of them put collections together before slabbing was invented and the coins are still raw. In order to get to the point of dealing with the cost and risk of having CAC review them, there is the cost and risk of having them slabbed.
@rec78 said:
I am 100% not interested in CAC. I would be happier if they never existed. IMHO a totally unnecessary company. I don't think that I have any slabs with a CAC sticker. (I bought all of them before CAC existed)
This is the frustration of long time collectors who carefully bought their coins before CAC existed.
With regards to cost and risk, why is having CAC review the coins any different from having them slabbed?
I'm sure there's going to be a really compelling argument made.
@DisneyFan said:
Who said anything about buying unslabed coins?
You mentioned "long time collectors". Perhaps you're unaware of this, but lots of them put collections together before slabbing was invented and the coins are still raw. In order to get to the point of dealing with the cost and risk of having CAC review them, there is the cost and risk of having them slabbed.
Hope that helps.
My comment was in regard to the original poster who said "I don't think that I have any slabs with a CAC sticker. (I bought all of them before CAC existed) "
Most likely the even older collectors you are referencing are winding down their collections and relying on the auction houses to do the time consuming work of evaluating their coins for slabbing and CACing.
@Gazes said:
1) Will these discussions change my mind and my collection?---No, I have over the years determined CAC is especially valuable for the type of coins I collect (i.e gold coins, usually greater than $5000 in cost, etc). I am very happy with the coins I have. Yes it is sometimes frustrating to see a coin I like that is not CAC approved and pass (when I can reasonably be certain that CAC reviewed it and passed on it too) but I also know I have saved myself from signficant mistakes because of my policy (yes, I have specific examples).
I don't have a problem with CAC, I just sent 18 coins to them recently, but the highlighted statement above, in my opinion, shows exactly the potential problem that it can cause. By your own admission you liked the coin but you only passed on it because it did not have a CAC sticker, based on the belief that it had been there and failed. This doesn't seem logical to me, you liked the coin... If the price was fair for the grade and had good appeal then why let the thought that it "may" have been to CAC and failed dictate your non-purchase? If every collector followed your mindset then suddenly all non-CAC coins over some dollar amount become unsaleable. Don't you see a potential problem there?
FWIW, 10 of the 18 that I sent in passed, a slightly disappointing ratio IMO. Do I like the 8 that failed any less? Not at all, I still think highly of all of them.
@Gazes said:
1) Will these discussions change my mind and my collection?---No, I have over the years determined CAC is especially valuable for the type of coins I collect (i.e gold coins, usually greater than $5000 in cost, etc). I am very happy with the coins I have. Yes it is sometimes frustrating to see a coin I like that is not CAC approved and pass (when I can reasonably be certain that CAC reviewed it and passed on it too) but I also know I have saved myself from signficant mistakes because of my policy (yes, I have specific examples).
I don't have a problem with CAC, I just sent 18 coins to them recently, but the highlighted statement above, in my opinion, shows exactly the potential problem that it can cause. By your own admission you liked the coin but you only passed on it because it did not have a CAC sticker, based on the belief that it had been there and failed. This doesn't seem logical to me, you liked the coin... If the price was fair for the grade and had good appeal then why let the thought that it "may" have been to CAC and failed dictate your non-purchase? If every collector followed your mindset then suddenly all non-CAC coins over some dollar amount become unsaleable. Don't you see a potential problem there?
FWIW, 10 of the 18 that I sent in passed, a slightly disappointing ratio IMO. Do I like the 8 that failed any less? Not at all, I still think highly of all of them.
Let me explain. I often collect gold coins in condition census grades. Opportunities to buy a particular date may not come up very often. My frustration is usually that the date has become available but unfortunately not up to my standards. There are many coins for me to fill holes so being patient has helped me a ton. There are times when I have confirmed that a coin was not messed with and did not have a sticker because it was a "c" coin. In those situations I make a decision whether a better coin is likely to come available, the eye appeal, and the price. I have bought some of those coins. However most of the time I wait for a coin that I like AND that JA likes too.
Yes---i may miss some coins that are perfectly fine for my collection but I also have avoided problem coins. It is a tradeoff. I am intelligent enough to know that if a coin I "like" has been viewed by JA and he has not stickered it, I should atleast deleve much deeper. I am not delusional to think I know more than someone of his stature and experience. I am just one person and this is how I collect. You said "what if everyone does what I do"? Well that's up to each collector---not up to you or me. I do what is fine for me and not sure why others cant accept that.
@BillJones said:
It was a false title. You are still a CAC fanatic, and always will be because you have lot of money tied up in it. I thought that you might add something, like a line of caution about how you still need to know how to grade even with CAC. It is possible to get buried in a CAC approved coin because of grading issues.
But that was the wrong interpretation.
By the same logic one could conclude that you are not a fan of CAC because you have buried yourself in coins which will never CAC and have a lot of money tied up in coins which have fallen out of favor as a result.
Point being, I don’t think assigning motives to other people is at all helpful on either side of your personal views. Enjoy the hobby as you see fit.
It's also really hard to get buried in a CAC coin because you have both the TPGS and CAC standing behind the opinion. That is one of the reasons people like me prefer TPGS with or without CAC when buying coins sight unseen on the internet.
No, it's actually pretty easy. I can point you to any number of CAC coins currently available at grossly inflated asking prices.
Might be the reason they are available...
Go to ETSY, I can show you hundreds of raw coins at even more inflated prices. And, of course, there's also counterfeit coins at bargain prices.
So, do you think it is easier to get buried in a PCGS/CAC coin or a raw coin? We both know the answer, don't we?
Typical @jmlanzaf . I refute his initial assertion unequivocally, so he moves the goalposts to try to save face. Yawn.
That's not moving the goal post. I said it wasn't easy to get buried in CAC. Define easy. You said you could show me a couple overpriced CAC coins for sale. That proves nothing since you didn't show us any and no one bought them.
Again, define easy. If there are ridiculously priced CAC coins out there, how does that make it "easy" to get buried unless you can't read a price guide?
Typical @coinjunkie. Picking nits and starting a semantic debate over the meaning of easy.
I stand by my original assertion. No face saving required.
Right, coins always sell for around price guide. Ever heard of auction fever?
You're not worth arguing with.
And yet you picked the fight. All because you didn't like my use of the word "hard".
I didn't pick a fight. I corrected your erroneous statement. CAC stickers don't have some magical power that stops people from overpaying for coins. End of story.
@Gazes said:
1) Will these discussions change my mind and my collection?---No, I have over the years determined CAC is especially valuable for the type of coins I collect (i.e gold coins, usually greater than $5000 in cost, etc). I am very happy with the coins I have. Yes it is sometimes frustrating to see a coin I like that is not CAC approved and pass (when I can reasonably be certain that CAC reviewed it and passed on it too) but I also know I have saved myself from signficant mistakes because of my policy (yes, I have specific examples).
I don't have a problem with CAC, I just sent 18 coins to them recently, but the highlighted statement above, in my opinion, shows exactly the potential problem that it can cause. By your own admission you liked the coin but you only passed on it because it did not have a CAC sticker, based on the belief that it had been there and failed. This doesn't seem logical to me, you liked the coin... If the price was fair for the grade and had good appeal then why let the thought that it "may" have been to CAC and failed dictate your non-purchase? If every collector followed your mindset then suddenly all non-CAC coins over some dollar amount become unsaleable. Don't you see a potential problem there?
FWIW, 10 of the 18 that I sent in passed, a slightly disappointing ratio IMO. Do I like the 8 that failed any less? Not at all, I still think highly of all of them.
Also, if you replace CAC with TPG ---your argument is the same. It would read "if the price was fair for the grade and had good appeal then why let the thought that it "may" have been to [a tpg] and failed dictate your non purchase? If every collector followed your mindset then suddenly all non-[tpg] coins over some dollar amount become unsaleable. Dont you see a potential problem there?" What you say could be said about TPG but for some reason a few people get irrational about cac.
Let me be clear,I could care less if you or anyone else never buys a CAC coin and I am the only one. It's fine. I am not telling anyone else to do.
CAC is not an end all to collecting but it provides a valuable service for many collectors. Especially those that cannot grade with the precision of professionals nor cannot detect the degrees of conservation/help a particular coin might have been subject too (i am in this camp). Having a trusted dealer is my way of analyzing and making buying decisions. My dealer and CAC are usually aligned. CAC is like a consumer protection agency beyond the TPG's.
The interesting thing that is happening is the pricing impact seems to be disproportionate to the protection. CAC coins are now a limited population of coins and as such the demand is driving prices to potentially unheard of levels. I find myself considering many unstickered coins for purchase for downgrading/downcrossing with the though of stickering at the lower grade because the market value will increase. Interesting phenomon!
@earlyAurum said:
I find myself considering many unstickered coins for purchase for downgrading/downcrossing with the though of stickering at the lower grade because the market value will increase. Interesting phenomon!
People are free to spend whatever they think is proper for the coins they collect but paying more for a lower grade coin with a sticker than a higher grade one without sounds more than a little bit nuts to me. YMMV, of course.
@Gazes said:
1) Will these discussions change my mind and my collection?---No, I have over the years determined CAC is especially valuable for the type of coins I collect (i.e gold coins, usually greater than $5000 in cost, etc). I am very happy with the coins I have. Yes it is sometimes frustrating to see a coin I like that is not CAC approved and pass (when I can reasonably be certain that CAC reviewed it and passed on it too) but I also know I have saved myself from signficant mistakes because of my policy (yes, I have specific examples).
I don't have a problem with CAC, I just sent 18 coins to them recently, but the highlighted statement above, in my opinion, shows exactly the potential problem that it can cause. By your own admission you liked the coin but you only passed on it because it did not have a CAC sticker, based on the belief that it had been there and failed. This doesn't seem logical to me, you liked the coin... If the price was fair for the grade and had good appeal then why let the thought that it "may" have been to CAC and failed dictate your non-purchase? If every collector followed your mindset then suddenly all non-CAC coins over some dollar amount become unsaleable. Don't you see a potential problem there?
FWIW, 10 of the 18 that I sent in passed, a slightly disappointing ratio IMO. Do I like the 8 that failed any less? Not at all, I still think highly of all of them.
Also, if you replace CAC with TPG ---your argument is the same. It would read "if the price was fair for the grade and had good appeal then why let the thought that it "may" have been to [a tpg] and failed dictate your non purchase? If every collector followed your mindset then suddenly all non-[tpg] coins over some dollar amount become unsaleable. Dont you see a potential problem there?" What you say could be said about TPG but for some reason a few people get irrational about cac.
Let me be clear,I could care less if you or anyone else never buys a CAC coin and I am the only one. It's fine. I am not telling anyone else to do.
Yes this is very true and in many cases is the argument made around here when someone brings up a raw coin. ("Why isn't that slabbed?") If one is familiar with a series and has a grasp on grading and surface characteristics I don't think a coin being raw should be a deterring factor in whether or not to buy either, provided the price is reasonable.
I think a more analogous argument would be someone asking MS65 money for a raw coin that looks borderline MS64/65. That's where TPGS help the most.
TPGS and CAC both have their place, just try not to give them too much power.
@Gazes said:
1) Will these discussions change my mind and my collection?---No, I have over the years determined CAC is especially valuable for the type of coins I collect (i.e gold coins, usually greater than $5000 in cost, etc). I am very happy with the coins I have. Yes it is sometimes frustrating to see a coin I like that is not CAC approved and pass (when I can reasonably be certain that CAC reviewed it and passed on it too) but I also know I have saved myself from signficant mistakes because of my policy (yes, I have specific examples).
I don't have a problem with CAC, I just sent 18 coins to them recently, but the highlighted statement above, in my opinion, shows exactly the potential problem that it can cause. By your own admission you liked the coin but you only passed on it because it did not have a CAC sticker, based on the belief that it had been there and failed. This doesn't seem logical to me, you liked the coin... If the price was fair for the grade and had good appeal then why let the thought that it "may" have been to CAC and failed dictate your non-purchase? If every collector followed your mindset then suddenly all non-CAC coins over some dollar amount become unsaleable. Don't you see a potential problem there?
FWIW, 10 of the 18 that I sent in passed, a slightly disappointing ratio IMO. Do I like the 8 that failed any less? Not at all, I still think highly of all of them.
Also, if you replace CAC with TPG ---your argument is the same. It would read "if the price was fair for the grade and had good appeal then why let the thought that it "may" have been to [a tpg] and failed dictate your non purchase? If every collector followed your mindset then suddenly all non-[tpg] coins over some dollar amount become unsaleable. Dont you see a potential problem there?" What you say could be said about TPG but for some reason a few people get irrational about cac.
Let me be clear,I could care less if you or anyone else never buys a CAC coin and I am the only one. It's fine. I am not telling anyone else to do.
I guess posting about CAC is like drinking: hard to quit.
TPGs authenticate and protect (via slabbing) a coin , as well as assigning it a grade or identifying a problem which precludes same. From my perspective, that provides a lot more value for the VAST majority of coins than does the addition of a sticker. YMMV.
Again, I'm not anti-CAC. It's a valuable and legitimate service that many find useful, but I only use it when I go to sell (some) coins, and only because a significant percentage of buyers will pay extra for it. It's strictly business from my perspective. No mystical or religious significance to a sticker, whatsoever. Again, YMMV.
I was going to add to the discussion but then couldn't think of anything that hadn't already been mentioned a hundred times on this and other CAC threads.
@FrankH said:
All it takes on a rare gold coin (especially early gold) is one shred of reluctance to accept it if it has not been stickered.
(personal experience)
safe/sorry/better
This sums up why I can't purchase expensive U.S. coins any more. You either kowtow to CAC, or you risk rejection from a significant number of coin buyers. That is just plain wrong.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@earlyAurum said:
I find myself considering many unstickered coins for purchase for downgrading/downcrossing with the though of stickering at the lower grade because the market value will increase. Interesting phenomon!
People are free to spend whatever they think is proper for the coins they collect but paying more for a lower grade coin with a sticker than a higher grade one without sounds more than a little bit nuts to me. YMMV, of course.
Sometimes the lower graded coin is nicer and a CAC sticker for better or worse draws more attention. Besides collecting what I like, i try to maximize value too which takes into account these idiosyncrasies of the market.
@earlyAurum said:
I find myself considering many unstickered coins for purchase for downgrading/downcrossing with the though of stickering at the lower grade because the market value will increase. Interesting phenomon!
People are free to spend whatever they think is proper for the coins they collect but paying more for a lower grade coin with a sticker than a higher grade one without sounds more than a little bit nuts to me. YMMV, of course.
Sometimes the lower graded coin is nicer...
If you downgrade the coin, it's still the same coin. Right?
@BillJones said:
This sums up why I can't purchase expensive U.S. coins any more. You either kowtow to CAC, or you risk rejection from a significant number of coin buyers. That is just plain wrong.
So apparently it's just plain wrong for many buyers to reject coins without CAC's since they don't get an assurance from one of the top people in our hobby that the coin is not a "C" coin, and/or the surfaces have not been messed with. Silly me.
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Comments
Being in the business, I see slabbed coins often. I see a LOT of low end coins for the grade and some high end.
I like the service CAC provides. I prefer to add coins with the CAC sticker to my collection, but it's not mandatory. I buy nice coins, stickered or not. If they are already stickered, it's a sweet bonus for me. I will pay a slight premium if they are stickered, but not bury myself. I usually get stickered coins below Greysheet.
My YouTube Channel
asheland said:
But wait, wasn't CAC created as a benefit to collectors? Weren't the TPG's created out of the kindness of the hearts of dealers to help collectors?
TPG's were created to accommodate sight-unseen dealer transactions, and dealers are the largest submitters. Largest submitters to CAC are dealers. Astute collectors can use both to their advantage, if crackouts, flipping, or making a profit on each deal is important to them. For long term pure collectors, CAC is another obstacle created by the coin industry that adds cost to a coin.
AMRC said:
Does CAC keep a record of which slab numbers they have already graded? I wonder how many times the same slab has been submitted because it belongs to a new buyer now and they didn't know the seller had already submitted it but failed to get the sticker.
My understanding is they do, but they will definitely NOT release that information for business reasons. If that data were made publicly available, it would hurt the sale of rejected coins.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Oh and they don't charge you if it doesn't sticker correct? so this isn't the money making strategy I was initially thinking it could be.
Yes, CAC (usually) adds cost to a coin. It also usually adds value, often in an amount greater than the cost to the submitter. Many collectors are among the submitters and they don’t have to pay the fee for their coins, unless they sticker.
In addition to adding cost and value, CAC provides additional screening of coins for their quality at the assigned grade. That additional screening is done by eyes which are widely acknowledged as among, if not, the very best.
I believe that many collectors and dealers can benefit from CAC. And that’s even if they don’t realize it or admit it.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion and free to accept or reject the concept of CAC and CAC coins. With or without CAC, it’s too bad that more collectors don’t have more fun.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
MFeld said:
Reading CAC threads can be fun!
Actually, I am having more fun than ever despite CAC. Since coming back into buying three year ago, over 50 newps for my 1794-1807 half dollar die variety collection, and a couple of early $10's. About a third have stickers, which added cost. Value? Doesn't matter, I don't buy for resale and will probably never see my collection get sold.
I'm truly glad that you're having so much fun. That's the way it should be.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
He must have been distracted when he applied the sticker pictured below. Placing a sticker on a label often covers important label information. Why is the eye appeal of the sticker itself never discussed? As for the coins, I have seen many stickered coins that were in one way or another disappointing. My Box of Twenty is half full and does not disappoint. One is a CAC'ed, just to be fair. I bought it years ago before I knew what CAC meant. It makes for a good story;)
Matt Snebold
.> @jackpine20 said:
Yeah, I refer to those as the B- coins.
If I cared, I'd just re-grade & get a new cert#
You can take another run at CAC or just call it "fresh"
Dealers do it so often there should be a vacuum tube from CA to NJ.
My Saint Set
Yet no correction has been made. Maybe "false advertising" is a bit harsh, but cleverly placed "click bait" might fit.
I can not even believe there are multiple posts about the title of my thread (I changed it so everyone can relax). The change of heart i referenced was I went to an active supporter of a service I felt helpful to the numismatic community to deciding that such threads were not a positive experience for me. The fact that people are upset by the original title has confirmed that I made the right decision.
I understood it, after reading your original post. But, I will admit that when I clicked on it, I thought you were abandoning CAC.
Yikes, I am apparently throwing my money around because I submit my coins to CAC so I can get one of the best opinions in numismatics for my collection. Even for $100 ones, 'tis a lot cheaper tuition than buying raw coins only to find out you've been had. Oh wait, that happened to me, bought raw coins on ebay only to find out indeed that I was had once I got the results back from a TPG. So yes, I guess your absolutes above do make sense - it's the bottom line.
Not really thrilled about contributing a CAC post....fatigued. But I will say there are some fabulously talented self proclaimed super graders on this thread that should send in to CAC.
They would be assured gold CAC stickers, the hottest of the white hot auction item, selling for multiples of price guide.
By the same logic one could conclude that you are not a fan of CAC because you have buried yourself in coins which will never CAC and have a lot of money tied up in coins which have fallen out of favor as a result.
Point being, I don’t think assigning motives to other people is at all helpful on either side of your personal views. Enjoy the hobby as you see fit.
Latin American Collection
It's also really hard to get buried in a CAC coin because you have both the TPGS and CAC standing behind the opinion. That is one of the reasons people like me prefer TPGS with or without CAC when buying coins sight unseen on the internet.
Keep up the breezing folks. When in doubt, check the data. I guess the higher prices realized for CAC coins is all just because collectors are dumb right? [sarcasim]. Ugh.....
CAC was created by a guy who was instrumental in the formation of PCGS and NGC. He knows coins and makes a market in the coins he certifies. He must be doing something right based on prices and adoption. Please ignore all CAC coins if they do not mean anything to you. We do not need any more pressure on prices.
No, it's actually pretty easy. I can point you to any number of CAC coins currently available at grossly inflated asking prices.
Nice put down after I did you a favor. I sold a coin back to you that I didn’t want to sell because I thought I should do it as a favor to another collector. Instead you only wanted the piece to make a trade.
Don’t ask for any more favors.
And we shall see if I am buried because of CAC. I don’t like CAC because one man should not have that much influence over the entire U.S. coin market. He’s an expert, but he is not perfect.
Might be the reason they are available...
Go to ETSY, I can show you hundreds of raw coins at even more inflated prices. And, of course, there's also counterfeit coins at bargain prices.
So, do you think it is easier to get buried in a PCGS/CAC coin or a raw coin? We both know the answer, don't we?
Bill I'm not putting you down. I'm pointing out that you are assigning a motivation to another person without any basis and by that same logic, and your position on the matter, I could conclude as I did. I'm not saying that is true, I'm saying it isn't fair to either of you to generalize as such.
Latin American Collection
Typical @jmlanzaf . I refute his initial assertion unequivocally, so he moves the goalposts to try to save face. Yawn.
I really don’t care whether my coins are CAC or not. It’s simply all in the deal for me what I can acquire for / sell for. If CAC crowd wants CAC they can buy out in mkt place, buy from me, or make their own (CAC subm).
In other areas I do World, Mods, Paper Money, raw inexpensive collector coins - CAC not even an issue there.
That's not moving the goal post. I said it wasn't easy to get buried in CAC. Define easy. You said you could show me a couple overpriced CAC coins for sale. That proves nothing since you didn't show us any and no one bought them.
Again, define easy. If there are ridiculously priced CAC coins out there, how does that make it "easy" to get buried unless you can't read a price guide?
Typical @coinjunkie. Picking nits and starting a semantic debate over the meaning of easy.
I stand by my original assertion. No face saving required.
I prefer a coin that can stand on its own. Not a coin when people look at it they say “Well it is in the holder”. I want a coin that is so nice the first thought is why doesn’t that have a green booger on it.
Right, coins always sell for around price guide. Ever heard of auction fever?
You're not worth arguing with.
And yet you picked the fight. All because you didn't like my use of the word "hard".
This is the frustration of long time collectors who carefully bought their coins before CAC existed. As I understand, along with the cost and risk of mailing coins, CAC does not attend shows, requires ANA membership and references from three coin dealers.
With regards to cost and risk, why is having CAC review the coins any different from having them slabbed?
Who said anything about buying unslabed coins?
I'm sure there's going to be a really compelling argument made.
You mentioned "long time collectors". Perhaps you're unaware of this, but lots of them put collections together before slabbing was invented and the coins are still raw. In order to get to the point of dealing with the cost and risk of having CAC review them, there is the cost and risk of having them slabbed.
Hope that helps.
I hope you didn't bet the farm on that.
My comment was in regard to the original poster who said "I don't think that I have any slabs with a CAC sticker. (I bought all of them before CAC existed)
"
Most likely the even older collectors you are referencing are winding down their collections and relying on the auction houses to do the time consuming work of evaluating their coins for slabbing and CACing.
I don't have a problem with CAC, I just sent 18 coins to them recently, but the highlighted statement above, in my opinion, shows exactly the potential problem that it can cause. By your own admission you liked the coin but you only passed on it because it did not have a CAC sticker, based on the belief that it had been there and failed. This doesn't seem logical to me, you liked the coin... If the price was fair for the grade and had good appeal then why let the thought that it "may" have been to CAC and failed dictate your non-purchase? If every collector followed your mindset then suddenly all non-CAC coins over some dollar amount become unsaleable. Don't you see a potential problem there?
FWIW, 10 of the 18 that I sent in passed, a slightly disappointing ratio IMO. Do I like the 8 that failed any less? Not at all, I still think highly of all of them.
Collector, occasional seller
Let me explain. I often collect gold coins in condition census grades. Opportunities to buy a particular date may not come up very often. My frustration is usually that the date has become available but unfortunately not up to my standards. There are many coins for me to fill holes so being patient has helped me a ton. There are times when I have confirmed that a coin was not messed with and did not have a sticker because it was a "c" coin. In those situations I make a decision whether a better coin is likely to come available, the eye appeal, and the price. I have bought some of those coins. However most of the time I wait for a coin that I like AND that JA likes too.
Yes---i may miss some coins that are perfectly fine for my collection but I also have avoided problem coins. It is a tradeoff. I am intelligent enough to know that if a coin I "like" has been viewed by JA and he has not stickered it, I should atleast deleve much deeper. I am not delusional to think I know more than someone of his stature and experience. I am just one person and this is how I collect. You said "what if everyone does what I do"? Well that's up to each collector---not up to you or me. I do what is fine for me and not sure why others cant accept that.
I didn't pick a fight. I corrected your erroneous statement. CAC stickers don't have some magical power that stops people from overpaying for coins. End of story.
All it takes on a rare gold coin (especially early gold) is one shred of reluctance to accept it if it has not been stickered.
(personal experience)
safe/sorry/better
Also, if you replace CAC with TPG ---your argument is the same. It would read "if the price was fair for the grade and had good appeal then why let the thought that it "may" have been to [a tpg] and failed dictate your non purchase? If every collector followed your mindset then suddenly all non-[tpg] coins over some dollar amount become unsaleable. Dont you see a potential problem there?" What you say could be said about TPG but for some reason a few people get irrational about cac.
Let me be clear,I could care less if you or anyone else never buys a CAC coin and I am the only one. It's fine. I am not telling anyone else to do.
CAC is not an end all to collecting but it provides a valuable service for many collectors. Especially those that cannot grade with the precision of professionals nor cannot detect the degrees of conservation/help a particular coin might have been subject too (i am in this camp). Having a trusted dealer is my way of analyzing and making buying decisions. My dealer and CAC are usually aligned. CAC is like a consumer protection agency beyond the TPG's.
The interesting thing that is happening is the pricing impact seems to be disproportionate to the protection. CAC coins are now a limited population of coins and as such the demand is driving prices to potentially unheard of levels. I find myself considering many unstickered coins for purchase for downgrading/downcrossing with the though of stickering at the lower grade because the market value will increase. Interesting phenomon!
People are free to spend whatever they think is proper for the coins they collect but paying more for a lower grade coin with a sticker than a higher grade one without sounds more than a little bit nuts to me. YMMV, of course.
Yes this is very true and in many cases is the argument made around here when someone brings up a raw coin. ("Why isn't that slabbed?") If one is familiar with a series and has a grasp on grading and surface characteristics I don't think a coin being raw should be a deterring factor in whether or not to buy either, provided the price is reasonable.
I think a more analogous argument would be someone asking MS65 money for a raw coin that looks borderline MS64/65. That's where TPGS help the most.
TPGS and CAC both have their place, just try not to give them too much power.
Collector, occasional seller
I guess posting about CAC is like drinking: hard to quit.
TPGs authenticate and protect (via slabbing) a coin , as well as assigning it a grade or identifying a problem which precludes same. From my perspective, that provides a lot more value for the VAST majority of coins than does the addition of a sticker. YMMV.
Again, I'm not anti-CAC. It's a valuable and legitimate service that many find useful, but I only use it when I go to sell (some) coins, and only because a significant percentage of buyers will pay extra for it. It's strictly business from my perspective. No mystical or religious significance to a sticker, whatsoever. Again, YMMV.
I was going to add to the discussion but then couldn't think of anything that hadn't already been mentioned a hundred times on this and other CAC threads.
Smitten with DBLCs.
This sums up why I can't purchase expensive U.S. coins any more. You either kowtow to CAC, or you risk rejection from a significant number of coin buyers. That is just plain wrong.
Sometimes the lower graded coin is nicer and a CAC sticker for better or worse draws more attention. Besides collecting what I like, i try to maximize value too which takes into account these idiosyncrasies of the market.
If you downgrade the coin, it's still the same coin. Right?
So apparently it's just plain wrong for many buyers to reject coins without CAC's since they don't get an assurance from one of the top people in our hobby that the coin is not a "C" coin, and/or the surfaces have not been messed with. Silly me.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996