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****2021 Morgan and Peace Silver Dollar thread - Flipping Posts Welcome!*****

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  • HoneyMarketHoneyMarket Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:
    I have only looked at 32, and they were a mix of Mints, and I can say that of 10 New Orleans, only 2 were even maybe borderline 70's, Note I look very closely. The CC's were 3 of 10 and I bet when these 3 get graded, some will still be 69's. Do not even imagine there will be many 70's percentagewise when more people submit. Those saying they are good, have rose colored glasses and wishful thinking.

    Can I ask, in general, why you believe you have so many 69's. You even doubted some of your potential 70's might end up 69 in the end. I am trying to get a feel and understanding of what otherwise looks like a flawless coin not getting that elusive 70 grade?

    Of the 20+ coins I rcvd, most were perfect from what I could tell (I used a 10x loupe looking at each coins side for roughly 15-30 seconds). I only had a couple coins that had some obvious small nick or gouge out the silver where I knew it would not pass muster.

    Overall I thought most of my coins looked great but at the same time, I know that I don't know how to estimate a grade.

    Is there any one or two things that kept the majority of your coins from getting that elusive 70?

    Thanks in advance for your feedback!

    BST references available on request

  • cagcrispcagcrisp Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @vulcanize said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    They are trying to not lose money on commems anymore. They don't make money on these generally.

    After seeing their annual report of last year, I feel it is more so because of the speculation by a few who are way up in the chain of command and reflects some of their decision making

    At September 30, 2020 and 2019, the fair value of the silver forward contracts were an asset of $7.4 million and $1.5 million, respectively, which are located in “Derivative, Asset”, in the Balance Sheets. The Mint recorded net losses of $72.0 million on its silver forward contract in FY 2020, compared to net gains of $11.8 million in FY 2019, located in “Gross Cost” in the Statements of Net Cost. At September 30, 2020 and 2019, the margin call transactions with the broker were net payments of $90 million and $5 million, respectively.

    Wonder if any kickbacks were involved? :|

    Your Silver forward contract is irrelevant in the discussion involving the Morgan or Peace Silver Dollars or Any commemorative coin. The Mint only hedges Silver on the Bullion side, not numismatic coins…

  • Samuel8Samuel8 Posts: 379 ✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2021 8:56PM

    .> @jmlanzaf said:

    Showing derry 's conversation with a CS rep is not exactly an official announcement. We've also been told that they don't sell returns.

    I can't find the original source, so I used his as a reference.
    I do remember it was mint official or somebody said that, and it was widely discussed at anther coin forum several years ago.

    The following is not what I saw before, but also an example.
    https://www.cointalk.com/threads/us-mint-returns.101683/

  • vulcanizevulcanize Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2021 10:04PM

    Sat and typed long replies with lots of links responding to jmlanzaf and cagcrisp, hit the post button and it went into the moderation queue.
    After the third full retyped attempt, realized that I better copy and paste it to save my sanity.
    Tried to post not once but seven times and faced same fate.
    I give up.

  • roob47roob47 Posts: 142 ✭✭✭

    I have a question if anyone can answer , since most of us are opening up our coins for inspection does that mean we can not get the first strike designation? I was more concerned with the condition of the coins🤷🏻‍♂️ If not what label is our host offering? Thanks

  • Cranium_Basher73Cranium_Basher73 Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2021 12:41AM

    You can still get first strike if you opened them. Someone earlier in the thread posted cut off dates for first strike. I think it was Nov. 18th.
    After the window, just a standard label.
    I opened my 2018 proof palladium eagle after I got it from the mint and was able to get a first strike. Too bad it didn't get a pf70.

    Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2021 7:31AM

    @HoneyMarket said:

    @Goldminers said:
    I have only looked at 32, and they were a mix of Mints, and I can say that of 10 New Orleans, only 2 were even maybe borderline 70's, Note I look very closely. The CC's were 3 of 10 and I bet when these 3 get graded, some will still be 69's. Do not even imagine there will be many 70's percentagewise when more people submit. Those saying they are good, have rose colored glasses and wishful thinking.

    Can I ask, in general, why you believe you have so many 69's. You even doubted some of your potential 70's might end up 69 in the end. I am trying to get a feel and understanding of what otherwise looks like a flawless coin not getting that elusive 70 grade?

    Of the 20+ coins I rcvd, most were perfect from what I could tell (I used a 10x loupe looking at each coins side for roughly 15-30 seconds). I only had a couple coins that had some obvious small nick or gouge out the silver where I knew it would not pass muster.

    Overall I thought most of my coins looked great but at the same time, I know that I don't know how to estimate a grade.

    Is there any one or two things that kept the majority of your coins from getting that elusive 70?

    Thanks in advance for your feedback!

    The best way to find out if they are 70's at PCGS is to send them in and pay for grading. I have sent in over 1,000 modern coins ($30,000+ to grade) to try to get 70's and it has taken me years to see most of the flaws the graders see ahead of time. Some people also just have a knack for it and better eyes. It only takes a pin prick tiny scratch, discoloration, or weak strike to end up with a 69. Even coins that you do not see scratches or dings, can have a weak strike.

    Grading is not cheap, and after you get too many 69's back, you get a lot more picky and try to find the flaws.

    Edited to add that PCGS 69's are beautiful coins and the vast majority of all the Morgan's I have opened are 69-70.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coiner said:
    I think we are about to see some P/L’s—-not deep mirror coins but def P/L

    Send them in, and in 1-2 months you will know the truth.

    PS. Don't get your hopes up.

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have so many slabbed coins that the 69’s look better than the 70’s. ( I stopped buying 70’s in2019)
    Ah the PL. please post some pictures as I am a student of grading and would love to have some reference photos. Good luck and remember “mine always look better to me 😉

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • NotSureNotSure Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2021 4:20AM

    Damn, I received my 3 Peace '$'s' Friday. I just got back from a mini-vacation a half hour ago, and saw the 'Fulfillment Center' box, and was very happy. After reading about these quality issues, I'm afraid to open the damn box, and might consider selling the box unopened for a FS designation for the new owner. And the Peace $'s were the only ones I wanted......thanx, U.S. Mint!

    I'll come up with something.
  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NotSure said:
    Damn, I received my 3 Peace '$'s' Friday, just got back from a mini-vacation. After reading about these quality issues, I'm afraid to open the damn box, and might consider selling the box unopened for a FS designation for the new owner. And the Peace $'s were the only ones I wanted......thanx, U.S. Mint!

    You can check them. FS ends November 15 or 18 (more coffee). They don’t have to be sealed. Unless for future grading. Interesting point. 🤨

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NotSure said:
    Damn, I received my 3 Peace '$'s' Friday, just got back from a mini-vacation. After reading about these quality issues, I'm afraid to open the damn box, and might consider selling the box unopened for a FS designation for the new owner. And the Peace $'s were the only ones I wanted......thanx, U.S. Mint!

    If you bought them to enjoy, open the box. Most of them look very nice. A 69 level coin is beautiful and is high quality and the Mint did pretty good on them in general. I only collect modern 70's, so don't take my picky comments to indicate these are not good looking coins.

    If you are a first strike 70 collector open the box and you can still send in the best coins as long as they are postmarked by Nov 18th for first strike.

    If you bought them to try to make money, sell them in the box unopened soon.

  • BullsitterBullsitter Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NotSure said:
    Damn, I received my 3 Peace '$'s' Friday. I just got back from a mini-vacation a half hour ago, and saw the 'Fulfillment Center' box, and was very happy. After reading about these quality issues, I'm afraid to open the damn box, and might consider selling the box unopened for a FS designation for the new owner. And the Peace $'s were the only ones I wanted......thanx, U.S. Mint!

    .
    .
    Open the box, pick the best, sell the rest.... B)

  • NotSureNotSure Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭

    @Jzyskowski1 said:

    @NotSure said:
    Damn, I received my 3 Peace '$'s' Friday, just got back from a mini-vacation. After reading about these quality issues, I'm afraid to open the damn box, and might consider selling the box unopened for a FS designation for the new owner. And the Peace $'s were the only ones I wanted......thanx, U.S. Mint!

    You can check them. FS ends November 15 or 18 (more coffee). They don’t have to be sealed. Unless for future grading. Interesting point. 🤨

    I don't play the FS game, I prefer mine raw. The issue is, opening them up and seeing issues, as have been pointed out here. > @Bullsitter said:

    @NotSure said:
    Damn, I received my 3 Peace '$'s' Friday. I just got back from a mini-vacation a half hour ago, and saw the 'Fulfillment Center' box, and was very happy. After reading about these quality issues, I'm afraid to open the damn box, and might consider selling the box unopened for a FS designation for the new owner. And the Peace $'s were the only ones I wanted......thanx, U.S. Mint!

    .
    .
    Open the box, pick the best, sell the rest.... B)

    This is likely the route I'll be going

    I'll come up with something.
  • SqueekstyleSqueekstyle Posts: 58 ✭✭✭

    Here is how my New Orleans Privy Morgan coin showed up. Seems to have some toning on the coin and is oddly stuck around the words "United" on the reverse:

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Squeekstyle said:
    Here is how my New Orleans Privy Morgan coin showed up. Seems to have some toning on the coin and is oddly stuck around the words "United" on the reverse:

    I’m amazed at the number of different problems are showing up. Dings ,scratches,scrapes,spots,unusual strikes and now this. My WW2 ase has a long spot like yours but more milk spotty. 🤨. My cc has a spot or something like it on the field. Not as large as yours but troubling 😳

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • @MsMorrisine said:

    @drjaycee said:
    Pictures of my potential error Morgan are up. If there are any opinions as to whether this would be designated as an error I would greatly appreciate the feedback!!

    I saw the pictures and wonder myself

    It is worthy of its own thread.

    Use a good title include “possible error?” “Much thinner on one side” and stuff like that to get people’s attention

    New Discussion started - using old pictures until I can post better ones.

  • HoneyMarketHoneyMarket Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭

    @drjaycee said:

    @MsMorrisine said:

    @drjaycee said:
    Pictures of my potential error Morgan are up. If there are any opinions as to whether this would be designated as an error I would greatly appreciate the feedback!!

    I saw the pictures and wonder myself

    It is worthy of its own thread.

    Use a good title include “possible error?” “Much thinner on one side” and stuff like that to get people’s attention

    New Discussion started - using old pictures until I can post better ones.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1065803/2021-morgan-d-possible-error-horizontal-misaligned-dies-other-issues-opinions-welcome#latest

    BST references available on request

  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jwitten said:

    @telephoto1 said:
    For all of you people soiling yourselves because it still says "processing"... relax. You'll know they're going to ship once your card gets hit. As long as it still says "processing", you're in. If it says backorder you're out unless there are some rejected cards or returns.

    Several people have some still showing backordered.. what makes you think they won’t get those?

    Per the Mint employee with whom I communicated, at this stage backordered means waiting list. So unless someone's card didn't go through or they get returns you're out as far as getting them at issue price. fwiw


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2021 8:23AM

    Here’s the peace dollar. Lovely little spot between the 2 & 1. Real nice Cc spot and now the peace dollar with a spot.

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • RichRRichR Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So...I have my last outstanding order as "preshipment info" sent to the USPS on 10/25...and no progress since.

    Is anyone else in a similar limbo...and should I be freaked out yet?

  • ebizgobroebizgobro Posts: 595 ✭✭✭

    @RichR said:
    So...I have my last outstanding order as "preshipment info" sent to the USPS on 10/25...and no progress since.

    Is anyone else in a similar limbo...and should I be freaked out yet?

    I have been waiting for an order "shipped" on 10/25 also. Today I spoke to US Mint rep who said that the Mint is busily shipping large number of shipments. They won't place a lost order trace until 7 -14 business days after the shipment date. She asked that I wait until 11/5 before requesting a trace if there is no progress.

  • RichRRichR Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    [They won't place a lost order trace until 7 -14 business days after the shipment date. She asked that I wait until 11/5 before requesting a trace if there is no progress.]

    Ugh oh...that's government speak for "jump out the window immediately!"

  • edgaredgar Posts: 886 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2021 11:00AM

    @RichR said:
    So...I have my last outstanding order as "preshipment info" sent to the USPS on 10/25...and no progress since.

    Is anyone else in a similar limbo...and should I be freaked out yet?

    My recent experiences have been that the mint processes an invoice and notifies you that the item has shipped. It then takes 5 to 10 business days for the item to leave the mints facility and be scanned in by the postal service. I think all is well, you'll see movement within the week.

    Everybody blames COVID!

    (l8-)>>

  • Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @telephoto1 said:

    @jwitten said:

    @telephoto1 said:
    For all of you people soiling yourselves because it still says "processing"... relax. You'll know they're going to ship once your card gets hit. As long as it still says "processing", you're in. If it says backorder you're out unless there are some rejected cards or returns.

    Several people have some still showing backordered.. what makes you think they won’t get those?

    Per the Mint employee with whom I communicated, at this stage backordered means waiting list. So unless someone's card didn't go through or they get returns you're out as far as getting them at issue price. fwiw

    I had a D and S backorder move to processing today and a credit card charge for same. I was told when I called the Mint last Thursday that the backorders will be filled. All my Morgan and Peace orders had been placed on hold because of a billing issue on a prior order which has now been fixed.

  • Cranium_Basher73Cranium_Basher73 Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2021 1:28PM

    @RichR said:
    So...I have my last outstanding order as "preshipment info" sent to the USPS on 10/25...and no progress since.

    Is anyone else in a similar limbo...and should I be freaked out yet?

    Count me as one, too. Still waiting on my D and S order, shipped on the 25th also.
    Exact same situation. My P and Peace dollar order was shipped on the 26th. It came in on the 29th. Go figure.

    Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.

  • kimber45ACPkimber45ACP Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2021 1:31PM

    My Peace showed up today. Unfortunately, it is 2000 miles away. I'll have to wait until December to get it from my daughter. I was locked out on sale day, although not for a lack of trying. She was my backup source and was able to score one. I let her know about an hour before they went on sale. She got through and I didn't. Good thing she reads my text messages. I figured it would be tough to get the Peace since there is only one.

  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 12,989 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Petetheretiredfed said:
    I have received four of the six 2021 Morgans and Peace Silver Dollars. Still waiting for the Peace Dollar and the P Morgan (shipped but not yet received by the post office).

    Out of the four received so far, the privy marked cc and o Morgans appear unblemished and without any marks. The s mint Morgan also appears unblemished and without any marks. The d mint Morgan has a single small nick in the field of the obverse at about 2 o'clock. I suspect this will reduce that coin down to a MS68 or 69.

    None of the four appear Proof Like.

    They all however are fine looking coins, and will become part of my Morgan collection.

    I am a collector and am not concerned over their value.


    Thanks for the report
    Pete

    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2021 2:16PM

    Received my 3 Peace dollars today and one looked like she got in a war with the mint and lost. Crud and spots all over. Just a shame they send people coins like these. Even the capsule is scratched by the date.

  • Jzyskowski1Jzyskowski1 Posts: 6,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:
    Received my 3 Peace dollars today and one looked like she got in a war with the mint and lost. Crud and spots all over. Just a shame they send people coins like these. Even the capsule is scratched by the date.

    Sorry buddy. It’s not a good look for the mint or the coin. I’m licking my wounds and telling myself they could be worse. Not always the best at compromise with poor quality. 😉

    🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶

  • HoneyMarketHoneyMarket Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:
    Received my 3 Peace dollars today and one looked like she got in a war with the mint and lost. Crud and spots all over.** Just a shame they send people coins like these**. Even the capsule is scratched by the date.

    I agree with your assessment 100%

    Hopefully some of the numismatic reporters start writing stories about what appears to be poor quality of a product(s) that the Mint was hopeful would garner more interest in numismatic products.

    When you go buy a new shirt, pair of pants, jacket, shoes, etc...you don't expect marks and scratches on the item - and if you do, you put them back on the rack.

    The Mint needs to address these quality issues - It's one thing to have a few issues with any product release (like under 2%) but based upon some of the stories here - I'd say that issues rate is north of 10% - who knows, maybe 25%!

    BST references available on request

  • taxmadtaxmad Posts: 978 ✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:
    Well obviously I am headed out to return this one to the Mint even though it will cost me time and some money, There is no way I could live with myself selling it to someone on eBay.

    Is it all or nothing with a Mint order? If you buy 3 and one is road kill, can you keep the other two or does the entire order need to be returned?

  • jessewvujessewvu Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2021 3:41PM

    I have several of these in so far. Should I get these graded or not? I planned on sending in but with all the terrible reviews, I’m having second thoughts. I haven’t looked at any yet and have no interest in culling them prior to submitting.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @taxmad said:

    @Goldminers said:
    Well obviously I am headed out to return this one to the Mint even though it will cost me time and some money, There is no way I could live with myself selling it to someone on eBay.

    Is it all or nothing with a Mint order? If you buy 3 and one is road kill, can you keep the other two or does the entire order need to be returned?

    No, I am only returning one, that is an option for these, but for proof sets for example with several coins, you do have to return the entire set if one is bad.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jessewvu said:
    I have a little over 100 of these in so far. Should I get these graded or not? I planned on sending in but with all the terrible reviews, I’m having second thoughts. I haven’t looked at any yet and have no interest in culling them prior to submitting.

    You must have a really big household.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,213 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jessewvu said:
    I have several of these in so far. Should I get these graded or not? I planned on sending in but with all the terrible reviews, I’m having second thoughts. I haven’t looked at any yet and have no interest in culling them prior to submitting.

    Depends on your unit costs. I would screen them. While major problems appear relatively scarce, there's enough minor problems to give you a lot of 69s which are going to be losers. If your unit costs are in the $10 range, won't matter. If you are in the $25 range, I think it would pay to screen.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,077 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:

    @jessewvu said:
    I have a little over 100 of these in so far. Should I get these graded or not? I planned on sending in but with all the terrible reviews, I’m having second thoughts. I haven’t looked at any yet and have no interest in culling them prior to submitting.

    You must have a really big household.

    Large basement

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,213 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:

    @jessewvu said:
    I have a little over 100 of these in so far. Should I get these graded or not? I planned on sending in but with all the terrible reviews, I’m having second thoughts. I haven’t looked at any yet and have no interest in culling them prior to submitting.

    You must have a really big household.

    It's not the size of the household. It's the number of households.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Goldminers said:

    @jessewvu said:
    I have a little over 100 of these in so far. Should I get these graded or not? I planned on sending in but with all the terrible reviews, I’m having second thoughts. I haven’t looked at any yet and have no interest in culling them prior to submitting.

    You must have a really big household.

    It's not the size of the household. It's the number of households.

    I stand corrected. He must have a whole lot of households. Sadly I only have one.

  • HoneyMarketHoneyMarket Posts: 806 ✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Goldminers said:

    @jessewvu said:
    I have a little over 100 of these in so far. Should I get these graded or not? I planned on sending in but with all the terrible reviews, I’m having second thoughts. I haven’t looked at any yet and have no interest in culling them prior to submitting.

    You must have a really big household.

    It's not the size of the household. It's the number of households.

    ...or the "number of apartment units" you have within your home address!

    BST references available on request

  • Just opened my box from the Mint that was supposed to have 10 CCs and 10 Os and instead there are 20 Os. Going to call the Mint but any suggestions before I do? I want the 10 CC!

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,077 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NYCMint said:
    Just opened my box from the Mint that was supposed to have 10 CCs and 10 Os and instead there are 20 Os. Going to call the Mint but any suggestions before I do? I want the 10 CC!

    @NYCMint said:
    Just opened my box from the Mint that was supposed to have 10 CCs and 10 Os and instead there are 20 Os. Going to call the Mint but any suggestions before I do? I want the 10 CC!

    in times past, the mint contractors made extremely rare mistakes. your experience will be new data for us.

    keep us updated.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,077 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Guess what I got!

    Free Milk Spotting!

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,213 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    Guess what I got!

    Free Milk Spotting!

    I had a similar one. It came off with acetone. Might not be actual milk spots which don't wash off.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,077 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tried and failed

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • kimber45ACPkimber45ACP Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    Tried and failed

    Sorry to hear that.

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