Another PCI grading company? It does not stack with my other PCI slabs, and aside from the clipped corners octagon case, it doesn't look like a PCI slab. Its overall look is somewhat similar to a Dominion slab, but it is identified as PCI, not Dominion, and the insert graphics and layout are different. Graded in February 2012 (?), the 38-D Jefferson inside is quite nice. Fun find.
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
After DGS. Possibly with a very short-term intermediate (the trial transcript gives a sale date that doesn't exactly match up to DGS' shutdown date), PCI was bought and run as a fraudulent FPG. Using green labels so as to look like older PCI holders (the giveaway is that real green label PCI the box on the reverse is actually microprint "PCI PCI PCI" while the fakes are blobs.
(there are also retro green labels from pre DGS)
After the DGS shutdown the PCI name and intellectual property were sold (back to DLRC and then on to somebody else, or directly). Those people created the "railroad track/bullet train" label that you see above.
They first used a 2011.95 number and then the current 2012.02. Cert#s run up over 70K, and most of the recent ones are juiced (AT) Morgans. At the OKC show, I spoke to somebody who knows who owns the molds and is making the shells, although I haven't spoken with anyone directly.
I'm guessing the molds have had minor rework over the years.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Chris Bryan and I were hoping CAC would be at Long Beach and I suggested he submit it to CAC there using my account. Found out too late that CAC/CACG was not at the show.
Picked this up at the Tukwila show yesterday - feels and sounds like a rattler. Came as is - no photo certificate.
It fits nicely in the "coffin" PCGS box I bought from the same seller - the slabs have to be skinny - won't fit the 2 piece slabs.
Thanks 2windy2fish!
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
Does anyone here have any pictures of NNC or NTC slabs, or any info on the companies?
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
Thank you. I was wondering how their slabs compared to those of the more commonly used grading companies since I did some research and found that both NNC and NTC still have operating websites. I think that it would be fun to make a submission to one of them, but I'll have to wait for that.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
NTC is a new company, NTC II (Yellow labels), but there did seem to be substantial overlap, for example same hologram. Not sure if they're really alive, no reply to an email several months ago.
NNC was junk. fleaBay seller buying details coins and putting them in "clean" slabs a grade or two higher. I think the original guy sold the business but if I remember correctly.The address now comes back to a trailer.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Picked this up at the recent Tukwilla show from 2windy2fish - actually a very nice, PL coin!
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
Tried looking up the owner - not much luck - partial article at NNP but Coin World archives aren't free. Same party??
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
If one were a member of the ANS, one could request a copy of the article from the restricted files. Oh wait, I am a member of the ANS. But I don't think it will show much of anything and court files from 1986 are rarely digitized. But at least I can tell which court and try to find them.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Many years ago a local dealer here had a display of a dozen or so 'off-brand' slabs with the heading, "Don't Buy These Type of Graded Coins."
It is somewhat comical now as many of those slabs, from memory- are now long considered scarce if not downright rare.
@braddick said:
Many years ago a local dealer here had a display of a dozen or so 'off-brand' slabs with the heading, "Don't Buy These Type of Graded Coins."
It is somewhat comical now as many of those slabs, from memory- are now long considered scarce if not downright rare.
You know what they say, "one man's trash is another man's......."
@pointfivezero said:
You know what they say, "one man's trash is another man's......."
Garbage?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@BStrauss3 said:
If one were a member of the ANS, one could request a copy of the article from the restricted files. Oh wait, I am a member of the ANS. But I don't think it will show much of anything and court files from 1986 are rarely digitized. But at least I can tell which court and try to find them.
The ANS came through (thank you, David Hill) after waiting for the Internet Archives to come back fully online. But it doesn't tell us much we didn't know.
It was a Massachusetts Appeals Court, and says NNCS was founded by Martin Paul at the request of Bruce Schroeder.
Whittman Burke is identified as a New Jersey rare coin retailer.
I do love how, in one quote, Mr. Paul trashes ANACS and NCI, while admitting his coins are over-graded vs. PCGS.
Thanks Tim! I just thought it was ironic that we were just discussing how rare they are and these popped up this morning.
Tim
I had the same type of coincidence happen with Susan B. Anthony dollars in a first generation rattler holder. I had seen or knew of less than 5 or 6 over the course of 7 yrs. I saw a PR67 on ebay that I nuclear bid and won. Not long after I saw a PR65 SBA $ in a rattler on Instagram. I instantly dm’ed to buy it, and had it sold to a dealer the day it arrived. And haven’t seen another one in the past 5 yrs.
Found this one interesting - on ebay currently. Sure looks like a rattler.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
Here's some rare plastic I would love to own. From coins-auctioned(dot)com
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
RENOVATED HIGHRISE: Previously the “Chamber of Commerce Building”, the Commerce Towers was originally built with only 9 floors in 1928. Jesse Jones, a Houstonian icon, led the redevelopment of the historic building and added more floors in the 1930s. The building was converted to a 25-story fully residential highrise in 2002.
The only "Certigrade" service I know of is Certi-grade Coin Grading Service. They use a PCGS 1 type shell with label that resembles a PCGS 1 "rattler" label but the slab is slightly larger than the current PCGS slabs. For those of you with the book it's on page 132.
And the following post in that thread is 14 years later by some guy named Tim on May 14, 2018:
Blast from the past while researching these holders this weekend - love the interaction between Russ and the "Sheriff" - great times.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@Lakesammman said:
Here's one I picked up about 4 years ago - INS - 2 full sheets of description, a laminated certificate and the coin in a flip - would be a cumbersome way to grade and collect! Note all the punches on the reverse with the letter "I".
If there is a line that points to wear, then how can they also grade it a MS65?
Good question. LOL, perhaps they were way ahead of the grading game where a little rub (friction wear) is allowed for coins grading MS.
I was making a joke and then read the form. That company was the second authentication service and the first TPGS. They used "Technical Grading" standards. All this info is on other forums , maybe this one also under Technical grading discussions (I don't know where I read it). Anyway, very slight rub is checked off on the forum. People had to pay extra for this service that explained how the grade was arrived at. Still, your question is an excellent one that I missed in the post.
@Barberian said:
An old ANACS slab with a misidentified coin. The coin is an 1855/854 overdate.
A lot of times, varieties aren't indicated if you didn't pay the up-charge.
You may be correct but I read on several forums that only the top two services will not ID and put many obvious varieties on the label unless you PAY FOR IT! After all, much of the time, Joe average collector has no idea what he owns when he uses a coin grading SERVICE.
Comments
Who knows?
The labels were not returned so the cert#s were not canceled. That's not the same as saying they're still in that plastic.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Has anyone seen any other Saints in the PCGS 1.1 white label rattler?
No, but I did see the one you posted earlier in the thread at Christopher's table in Long Beach on Thursday:
He was trying very hard to sell me the Iowa commem to the left of the Saint but I already have two with gold CAC's.
Tim
Another PCI grading company? It does not stack with my other PCI slabs, and aside from the clipped corners octagon case, it doesn't look like a PCI slab. Its overall look is somewhat similar to a Dominion slab, but it is identified as PCI, not Dominion, and the insert graphics and layout are different. Graded in February 2012 (?), the 38-D Jefferson inside is quite nice. Fun find.
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
After DGS. Possibly with a very short-term intermediate (the trial transcript gives a sale date that doesn't exactly match up to DGS' shutdown date), PCI was bought and run as a fraudulent FPG. Using green labels so as to look like older PCI holders (the giveaway is that real green label PCI the box on the reverse is actually microprint "PCI PCI PCI" while the fakes are blobs.
(there are also retro green labels from pre DGS)
After the DGS shutdown the PCI name and intellectual property were sold (back to DLRC and then on to somebody else, or directly). Those people created the "railroad track/bullet train" label that you see above.
They first used a 2011.95 number and then the current 2012.02. Cert#s run up over 70K, and most of the recent ones are juiced (AT) Morgans. At the OKC show, I spoke to somebody who knows who owns the molds and is making the shells, although I haven't spoken with anyone directly.
I'm guessing the molds have had minor rework over the years.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Thank you @BStrauss3
When you say "current 2012.02" does that mean these are still being produced?
Rookie mistake - my slab DOES stack with PCI slabs when flipped over, Reverse to Obverse.
Regardless, the coin inside this slab is by far the nicest coin I have found in one of these backyard/garage/wannabe holders.
Thanks again.
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
I see newer highest #s on fleaBay every few weeks. It's very likely they're juicing a few coins and selling them for absurd prices each week.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Chris Bryan and I were hoping CAC would be at Long Beach and I suggested he submit it to CAC there using my account. Found out too late that CAC/CACG was not at the show.
Here are my 3 rarest slabs. (No, I am not a member of the Chicago Coin Club - it was a gift from @Coinosaurus .)
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
Picked this up at the Tukwila show yesterday - feels and sounds like a rattler. Came as is - no photo certificate.
It fits nicely in the "coffin" PCGS box I bought from the same seller - the slabs have to be skinny - won't fit the 2 piece slabs.
Thanks 2windy2fish!
There are very few NCI slabs left with the photocerts.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water…look what was just offered to me - NCI photo certs:
Tim
Nice! I would like to get ahold of one of those for Type Slab Collection!
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Just to be clear, I definitely DID NOT pay the prices listed in the picture.
Tim
>
Still, those seem to be hard to find, especially with the photo certificate. 😊
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Does anyone here have any pictures of NNC or NTC slabs, or any info on the companies?
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
I’m sure there are NNC and NTC slabs somewhere in these pictures:
Nice job on the photo certs!
Thanks Tim! I just thought it was ironic that we were just discussing how rare they are and these popped up this morning.
Tim
This is a good reference site for all things old slab related. And @BStrauss3 and @86Saab are great sources of knowledge on the forum:
https://coinauctionshelp.com/page16.html#.YNIzvGhKg2x
Tim
Thank you. I was wondering how their slabs compared to those of the more commonly used grading companies since I did some research and found that both NNC and NTC still have operating websites. I think that it would be fun to make a submission to one of them, but I'll have to wait for that.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
NTC is a new company, NTC II (Yellow labels), but there did seem to be substantial overlap, for example same hologram. Not sure if they're really alive, no reply to an email several months ago.
NNC was junk. fleaBay seller buying details coins and putting them in "clean" slabs a grade or two higher. I think the original guy sold the business but if I remember correctly.The address now comes back to a trailer.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Here’s a slab I never saw before, I didn’t check the whole thread, has anybody else heard or seen one like this before?
Mr_Spud
I think @UpGrayedd posted an RNGA slab in a world coin thread last year.
Tim
Interesting slab type. There are several (39) on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=rnga&_sacat=11116&_sop=15
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Here is my example.
I have several odd ball slabs from France, South Africa, Russia, etc. in my slabs from around the world collection.
Philippians 4:4-7
Picked this up at the recent Tukwilla show from 2windy2fish - actually a very nice, PL coin!
Nice, Tim. I have one as well but your listed value is much higher:
Tim
Late 80s peak valuations from optimistic submitter (coin dealers).
But generally, these are nice coins, and the grades (esp. with the non-existent gradflation) aren't outlandish.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Thanks Burton!
Tried looking up the owner - not much luck - partial article at NNP but Coin World archives aren't free. Same party??
If one were a member of the ANS, one could request a copy of the article from the restricted files. Oh wait, I am a member of the ANS. But I don't think it will show much of anything and court files from 1986 are rarely digitized. But at least I can tell which court and try to find them.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Picked this up on the cheap last night. Not sure if I stole it or got robbed:
Tim
Many years ago a local dealer here had a display of a dozen or so 'off-brand' slabs with the heading, "Don't Buy These Type of Graded Coins."
It is somewhat comical now as many of those slabs, from memory- are now long considered scarce if not downright rare.
peacockcoins
You know what they say, "one man's trash is another man's......."
Tim
Garbage?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The ANS came through (thank you, David Hill) after waiting for the Internet Archives to come back fully online. But it doesn't tell us much we didn't know.
It was a Massachusetts Appeals Court, and says NNCS was founded by Martin Paul at the request of Bruce Schroeder.
Whittman Burke is identified as a New Jersey rare coin retailer.
I do love how, in one quote, Mr. Paul trashes ANACS and NCI, while admitting his coins are over-graded vs. PCGS.
We have a 2018 obit thread for Mr. Paul: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1000569/martin-paul-passed-away - he sounds like quite the character.
I did find Whittman-Burke & Associates listed in an 1985 NCI dealers advert.
2018 Discussion about NNCS here: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/996786/have-you-ever-seen-this-type-of-slab-before
Finally, Brad Johnson of NTC II, worked at Rarities Group with Martin Paul (the people suing over selling coins to Whittman-Burke): https://www.ntccoin.com/index.php/about-us/ntc-team
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Does something like this count as being a slabbed coin?
Mr_Spud
I'd say no.
I generally view slabbing as encapsulation for authentication and/or protection, with grading as the icing.
This is more a crossover item and is exonumia.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
That makes sense. What about this one
Mr_Spud
Easy.
Production PSA slab that has an exonomia object.
Once you have a slab that holds a 3x5" baseball card, you can slab ANYTHING that fits... cards, signatures, et al...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I had the same type of coincidence happen with Susan B. Anthony dollars in a first generation rattler holder. I had seen or knew of less than 5 or 6 over the course of 7 yrs. I saw a PR67 on ebay that I nuclear bid and won. Not long after I saw a PR65 SBA $ in a rattler on Instagram. I instantly dm’ed to buy it, and had it sold to a dealer the day it arrived. And haven’t seen another one in the past 5 yrs.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Found this one interesting - on ebay currently. Sure looks like a rattler.
Here's some rare plastic I would love to own. From coins-auctioned(dot)com
Tim, we had some postings on those when they first surfaced a couple of years back. I'm not sure if I can find it (easily).
They started with a photo-certificate: https://papyrus.exacteditions.com/issues/44487/page/11
Sedwick sold another version of the phot-certificate in 2022: https://auction.sedwickcoins.com/item.aspx?i=44824313
The building is now residential
A different slab than the one above: https://www.3rdpartyslabs.com/certi-grade.html
Finally, something here:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/295112/check-out-the-newest-grading-company
Conder101 on June 9, 2004:
And the following post in that thread is 14 years later by some guy named Tim on May 14, 2018:
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
That's four years after ANACS Started so there may be earlier examples with different printing.
Never saw one of these. I think the blue border PCI label was for foreign coins
Good question. LOL, perhaps they were way ahead of the grading game where a little rub (friction wear) is allowed for coins grading MS.
I was making a joke and then read the form. That company was the second authentication service and the first TPGS. They used "Technical Grading" standards. All this info is on other forums , maybe this one also under Technical grading discussions (I don't know where I read it). Anyway, very slight rub is checked off on the forum. People had to pay extra for this service that explained how the grade was arrived at. Still, your question is an excellent one that I missed in the post.
You may be correct but I read on several forums that only the top two services will not ID and put many obvious varieties on the label unless you PAY FOR IT! After all, much of the time, Joe average collector has no idea what he owns when he uses a coin grading SERVICE.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.