@Cougar1978 said:
No by far. The Morgan Dollar series ended in 1921.
It’s simply a mod commem.
The PCGS set registry agrees with you as the Coin Facts numbers state they are officially classified in the Modern Silver and Clad Commemoratives category for registry sets.
Of course that does not prevent anyone from collecting them in any sets they want to outside of the registry.
PCGS has them under "Modern Silver and Clad Commemoratives, MS" and then expectedly in the Commemoratives section of the Registry. At the SSDC Registry, I plan to put them under Commemoratives and build the appropriate centennial sets.
Those graded so far are under a special PCGS "Advanced Release" subnumber. Was this a special shipment to the grading service or something like that? I do not see First Strikes. Is that the same thing?
Go to Coin Facts and enter one of those blue PCGS numbers and you will see these are all "die varieties" and you can see the other varieties like First Strike, First Day of Issue, etc. The "First Strikes" have not graded yet because they only just shipped and it takes time for them to grade and be posted.
@Che_Grapes said:
hello folks - on the US Mint website it is clear these are NOT commemoratives.... someone please send a screen shot of the COA.
It’s not should they be - they already ARE
The COA does not say commemorative. It says they were minted in accordance with Public Law-116-286.
H.R.6192 - 1921 Silver Dollar Coin Anniversary Act
Nowhere in the law is the word commemorative. They are coins minted are numismatic items, and are legal tender and are considered "Anniversary" coins. There is no stated end date, only a start date.
A couple key paragraphs:
(6) These iconic silver dollars with vastly different
representations of Lady Liberty and the American Eagle, reflect
a changing of the guard in 1921 in the United States and
therefore on the 100th anniversary must begin to be minted again
to commemorate this significant evolution of American freedom.
The Secretary may issue coins minted under this Act beginning on
January 1, 2021.
a) Sale Price.--The coins issued under this Act shall be sold by
the Secretary at a price equal to the sum of--
(1) the face value of the coins; and
(2) the cost of designing and issuing the coins (including
labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses,
marketing, and shipping).
(b) Bulk Sales.--The Secretary may make bulk sales of the coins
issued under this Act at a reasonable discount.
@Weiss said:
After seeing images of the "S" mint Morgan, there can be no doubt. This is part of the series. Full stop. End of discussion.
And the original mintage/product limit was fixed and now shows differently. Perhaps a Proof coin coming out next?
Nothing in the Law that I see indicates that proofs or other versions can't be issued in the future. These are the only requirements: Edited to add that even an original 90% silver version is possible. That would be a nice proof.
SEC. 3. COIN SPECIFICATIONS.
(a) $1 Silver Coins.--The Secretary of the Treasury (hereafter in
this Act referred to as the ``Secretary'') shall mint and issue $1 coins
in recognition of the 100th anniversary of completion of coinage of the
Morgan dollar and the 100th anniversary of commencement of coinage of
the Peace dollar, each of which shall--
(1) weigh 26.73 grams;
(2) have a diameter of 1.500 inches;
(3) contain not less than 90 percent silver; and
(4) have a reeded edge.
PCGS has already graded almost 300 of the new Morgan and Peace dollars (but only 5 of the 6 different coins; the S Mint Morgan is not showing any yet.) The coins are listed in the Pop. Report as "Modern Silver and Clad Commemoratives". Every coin put into a holder so far has been MS70.
So here is a related First Strike question - I asked PCGS and could not get an explanation....
My understanding is that each of these has a limited production (175K (M) and 200K (P)), and they were all produced at the same time. PCGS has First Strike dates listed as oct 18 to nov 18 - So if all have been produced already, aren't they ALL First Strikes? If so what is the point of the designation, aside from the $18 grading premium?
@DennisH said:
PCGS has already graded almost 300 of the new Morgan and Peace dollars (but only 5 of the 6 different coins; the S Mint Morgan is not showing any yet.) The coins are listed in the Pop. Report as "Modern Silver and Clad Commemoratives". Every coin put into a holder so far has been MS70.
It appears PCGS has pulled this - I could not find the page or any by number...
@alefzero said:
Those graded so far are under a special PCGS "Advanced Release" subnumber. Was this a special shipment to the grading service or something like that? I do not see First Strikes. Is that the same thing?
Just to wrap up this discussion - The 2021 Morgan Dollars and 2021 Peace Dollar are NOT commemoratives. The production information and the COA received with them indicated they are produced per spec by the US Mint and are legal tender, so these are absolutely "real" US Dollars.
The question now is how to categorize them - New/old or continuation...
@KARacing said:
Just to wrap up this discussion - The 2021 Morgan Dollars and 2021 Peace Dollar are NOT commemoratives. The production information and the COA received with them indicated they are produced per spec by the US Mint and are legal tender, so these are absolutely "real" US Dollars.
The question now is how to categorize them - New/old or continuation...
If I can't walk into my local bank and get one out of the teller's drawer AT FACE VALUE then they are NOT regular production.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
@KARacing said:
Just to wrap up this discussion - The 2021 Morgan Dollars and 2021 Peace Dollar are NOT commemoratives. The production information and the COA received with them indicated they are produced per spec by the US Mint and are legal tender, so these are absolutely "real" US Dollars.
The question now is how to categorize them - New/old or continuation...
You are confusing the designations. Commemorative is not the opposite of legal tender. All commemorative coins are legal tender. Commemorative medals are not legal tender.
@Goldminers said:
They are classified as modern commemoratives. You will find them there.
Nope - do you have a link?
Just to wrap up this discussion - The 2021 Morgan Dollars and 2021 Peace Dollar are NOT commemoratives. The production information and the COA received with them indicated they are produced per spec by the US Mint and are legal tender, so these are absolutely "real" US Dollars.
Do you still have internet access to the PCGS website? Try looking at the PCGS population report at this link below and there they are right under commemoratives. You can call them whatever you want, but if you ask where to find them, I gave you an honest answer.
Try to be a bit more polite on a forum, and actually look where some actually take their valuable time providing answers, instead of being argumentative.
@rip_f said:
I don't think so. Not if they are considered a special collectible, and of a significantly different thickness.
Are they a significantly different thickness? My understanding is that the dimensions are the same, but they are .999 fine silver rather than 90% silver, and contain .858 ounces of silver rather than .7734 ounces of silver.
Yes, there is a very slight difference in thickness (the 2021's are slightly thinner) but it is barely perceptible to the naked eye.
Current PCGS pop report on the 2021 Morgan’s and Peace Silver Dollars…
2021 Morgan CC grade 70 = 1240; Total graded = 1240
2021 Morgan O grade 70 = 1125; Total graded = 1125
2021 Morgan S grade 70 = 1252; Total graded = 1252
2021 Morgan D grade 70 = 1108; Total graded = 1108
2021 Morgan Philadelphia grade 70 = 1242;Total graded = 1242
I don't know, after seeing the less than premium quality of the 2021 Morgans, I would say NOT. On the other hand the 2021 Peace Dollars looks really nice and should/could be included in a set.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Included in the Proof series? Maybe.....I really don't know, and I will stay out of that discussion.
Included in the Business Strike series? Absolutely, positively, unequivically NO WAY! The Business strikes were meant for business/commerce, and were available at face-value. The new 2021s are not meant for business/commerce, and are not, in any way, shape or form, available at face-value.
@Steven59 said:
I don't know, after seeing the less than premium quality of the 2021 Morgans, I would say NOT. On the other hand the 2021 Peace Dollars looks really nice and should/could be included in a set.
3 of my 12 peace dollars have issues.
I'm also not sure why production quality has any bearing on inclusion. The 2021 Morgans are all of higher quality than the originals.
@SDSportsFan said:
Included in the Proof series? Maybe.....I really don't know, and I will stay out of that discussion.
Included in the Business Strike series? Absolutely, positively, unequivically NO WAY! The Business strikes were meant for business/commerce, and were available at face-value. The new 2021s are not meant for business/commerce, and are not, in any way, shape or form, available at face-value.
Ok...why shouldn't these coins be treated the same as the "continuation" SBA coin that was minted many years after that series was thought to end?
I believe 18 years later...
And, using a closer analogy...the 1921 Morgans themselves were separated by a significant date gap from the other coins in the series...and does anyone not consider the 1921 coins to be part of the Morgan series?
@BillJones said:
It should not be included in the Morgan Dollar because it is a commemorative. But I am sure that it will because it will boost sales and prices.
Come on Bill. The folks pushing these commeratives as being part of a Morgan or Peace Dollar set wouldn't have profits as the prime motivating factor. It's all about numismatic orthodoxy (where are the sarcasm and tongue in cheek icons).
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@santinidollar said:
Nope. These are not business strikes intended for commerce.
So you would also exclude all original proof coins?
Original proof coins also were not intended for commerce. I think what’s being discussed here is the inclusion of the newcomers in business strike sets.
Any answer to this question must be consistent with thee things:
1) Among many other possible examples, the 1929 Half Eagle is considered a part of the Indian Head series.
2) The 2014 W Gold Half Dollar is considered a part of the Kennedy series (at least according to my Red Book.)
3) The 2016 W Quarter Dollar is not considered a part of the Standing Liberty series.
It's clear to me that none of a gap in dates, a change in composition, a relatively minor design change, a change in intent to circulate, or a perceived change in "commemorative" status is enough to terminate a series. The only thing that can terminate a series is a replacement of the same denomination. Since the Morgan dollar has been replaced by the Peace, Ike, SBA, Sacagawea, and the unholy mess of Presidential/Native American/Innovation dollars we've mostly been ignoring since 2007, the series was clearly terminated. Similarly, save one step, was the Peace. Therefore these coins, and any further coins struck with these approximate designs, are not a prt of the Morgan or Peace series.
@cagcrisp said:
By Law the United States Mint does NOT consider it a commemorative...
The legislation authorizing them says they are commemoratives.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@cagcrisp said:
By Law the United States Mint does NOT consider it a commemorative...
The legislation authorizing them says they are commemoratives.
That is Incorrect.
The Mint can only have two commemorative programs per year...
Your argument isn’t with me. Read the legislation.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@cagcrisp said:
By Law the United States Mint does NOT consider it a commemorative...
The legislation authorizing them says they are commemoratives.
That is Incorrect.
The Mint can only have two commemorative programs per year...
Your argument isn’t with me. Read the legislation.
There are a LOT of United States Mint coins that commemorate something. The Morgan's and Peace commemorate something. That does NOT make them commemoratives.
Commemoratives are a specific line item for the United States Mint. The United States Mint is limited to two commemorative programs per year Maximum. The two commemorative programs for 2021 are 1) National Law Enforcement and 2) Christa McAuliffe.
When the United States Mint report sales numbers, the Morgan's and Peace Silver dollars are NOT listed as commemoratives.
The Morgan's and Peace Silver Dollars are listed as "Precious Metal Products" by the United States Mint...
Commemoratives vs. Precious Metals Products per the United States Mint...
Commemoratives 21CA 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM GOLD PROOF
Commemoratives 21CB 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM GOLD UNC
Commemoratives 21CC 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM SILVER PROOF
Commemoratives 21CD 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM SILVER UNC
Commemoratives 21CE 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM CLAD PROOF
Commemoratives 21CF 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM CLAD UNC
Commemoratives 21CG 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM 3-COIN SET
Commemoratives 21CH 2021 CHRISTA MCAULIFFE SILVER PROOF
Commemoratives 21CJ 2021 CHRISTA MCAULIFFE SILVER UNC
Precious Metal Products 21XC MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR CC PRIVY MARK
Precious Metal Products 21XD MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR O PRIVY MARK
Precious Metal Products 21XE MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR NO PRIVY MARK NO MINT MARK
Precious Metal Products 21XF MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR NO PRIVY MARK (S)
Precious Metal Products 21XG MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR NO PRIVY MARK (D)
Precious Metal Products 21XH PEACE SILVER DOLLAR WITH NO PRIVY MARK (P)
@cagcrisp said:
By Law the United States Mint does NOT consider it a commemorative...
The legislation authorizing them says they are commemoratives.
That is Incorrect.
The Mint can only have two commemorative programs per year...
Your argument isn’t with me. Read the legislation.
There are a LOT of United States Mint coins that commemorate something. The Morgan's and Peace commemorate something. That does NOT make them commemoratives.
Commemoratives are a specific line item for the United States Mint. The United States Mint is limited to two commemorative programs per year Maximum. The two commemorative programs for 2021 are 1) National Law Enforcement and 2) Christa McAuliffe.
When the United States Mint report sales numbers, the Morgan's and Peace Silver dollars are NOT listed as commemoratives.
The Morgan's and Peace Silver Dollars are listed as "Precious Metal Products" by the United States Mint...
There was legislation introduced for them under the commemorative coin program but it failed but this one succeeded as it isn't a commemorative coin program.
@daltex said:
Any answer to this question must be consistent with thee things:
1) Among many other possible examples, the 1929 Half Eagle is considered a part of the Indian Head series.
2) The 2014 W Gold Half Dollar is considered a part of the Kennedy series (at least according to my Red Book.)
3) The 2016 W Quarter Dollar is not considered a part of the Standing Liberty series.
It's clear to me that none of a gap in dates, a change in composition, a relatively minor design change, a change in intent to circulate, or a perceived change in "commemorative" status is enough to terminate a series. The only thing that can terminate a series is a replacement of the same denomination. Since the Morgan dollar has been replaced by the Peace, Ike, SBA, Sacagawea, and the unholy mess of Presidential/Native American/Innovation dollars we've mostly been ignoring since 2007, the series was clearly terminated. Similarly, save one step, was the Peace. Therefore these coins, and any further coins struck with these approximate designs, are not a prt of the Morgan or Peace series.
But boy howdy does that leave a ton of grey area.
If the 1964 Peace Dollars were made, I'm sure they would be a part of the Peace Dollar series despite the 30 year gap between 1935 and 1965 (but dated 1964). Another point I'll make is are the 2009 UHR coins a part of the Saint Gaudens Double Eagle series? The $20 denomination simply ended in 1933 and Saints weren't replaced with something else. I personally think of the 2009 UHR as a part of the Saint Gaudens series.
@cagcrisp said:
By Law the United States Mint does NOT consider it a commemorative...
The legislation authorizing them says they are commemoratives.
That is Incorrect.
The Mint can only have two commemorative programs per year...
Your argument isn’t with me. Read the legislation.
There are a LOT of United States Mint coins that commemorate something. The Morgan's and Peace commemorate something. That does NOT make them commemoratives.
Commemoratives are a specific line item for the United States Mint. The United States Mint is limited to two commemorative programs per year Maximum. The two commemorative programs for 2021 are 1) National Law Enforcement and 2) Christa McAuliffe.
When the United States Mint report sales numbers, the Morgan's and Peace Silver dollars are NOT listed as commemoratives.
The Morgan's and Peace Silver Dollars are listed as "Precious Metal Products" by the United States Mint...
There was legislation introduced for them under the commemorative coin program but it failed but this one succeeded as it isn't a commemorative coin program.
The legislation was passed and signed into law (HR6192 116th Congress). The law states...
"These iconic silver dollars with vastly different representations of Lady Liberty and the American Eagle, reflect a changing of the guard in 1921 in the United States and therefore on the 100th anniversary must begin to be MINTED AGAIN TO COMMEMORATE this significant evolution of American freedom."
The coins are commemoratives.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@jmlanzaf It certainly sounds like you answered your own question in the opening title and yes they are called Morgans.
I'm not sure I understand what all the fuss is about, "Part of the Real series" vs. "Commemorative".
To me the real question for the Morgan collectors is, have you bought one yet?
@CoinscratchFever said: @jmlanzaf It certainly sounds like you answered your own question in the opening title and yes they are called Morgans.
I'm not sure I understand what all the fuss is about, "Part of the Real series" vs. "Commemorative".
To me the real question for the Morgan collectors is, have you bought one yet?
At the time this thread started, that wasn't an option.
Wait what?! So they weren’t available in April but now they are. I don’t see how that answers your main question but I guess it does.
I knew better than to step into this thread but for some reason I just couldn’t help myself.
@Pilot123 said:
How about the plain, D, and S could be part of the original series, but any thing requiring a Mint Privy can't be?
They all commeratives regards of where they were minted.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Comments
The PCGS set registry agrees with you as the Coin Facts numbers state they are officially classified in the Modern Silver and Clad Commemoratives category for registry sets.
Of course that does not prevent anyone from collecting them in any sets they want to outside of the registry.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
I would say not, but I'll probably buy one for the cool factor as part of my extended type set, assuming the price in the secondary market appeals.
I vote 'NO'.
It's not part of the original series and is more of a commemorative.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
PCGS has them under "Modern Silver and Clad Commemoratives, MS" and then expectedly in the Commemoratives section of the Registry. At the SSDC Registry, I plan to put them under Commemoratives and build the appropriate centennial sets.
Those graded so far are under a special PCGS "Advanced Release" subnumber. Was this a special shipment to the grading service or something like that? I do not see First Strikes. Is that the same thing?
Go to Coin Facts and enter one of those blue PCGS numbers and you will see these are all "die varieties" and you can see the other varieties like First Strike, First Day of Issue, etc. The "First Strikes" have not graded yet because they only just shipped and it takes time for them to grade and be posted.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
hello folks - on the US Mint website it is clear these are NOT commemoratives.... someone please send a screen shot of the COA.
It’s not should they be - they already ARE
Is it too early to begin discussing the 2036 Gobrecht dollars?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
The COA does not say commemorative. It says they were minted in accordance with Public Law-116-286.
H.R.6192 - 1921 Silver Dollar Coin Anniversary Act
Nowhere in the law is the word commemorative. They are coins minted are numismatic items, and are legal tender and are considered "Anniversary" coins. There is no stated end date, only a start date.
A couple key paragraphs:
(6) These iconic silver dollars with vastly different
representations of Lady Liberty and the American Eagle, reflect
a changing of the guard in 1921 in the United States and
therefore on the 100th anniversary must begin to be minted again
to commemorate this significant evolution of American freedom.
The Secretary may issue coins minted under this Act beginning on
January 1, 2021.
a) Sale Price.--The coins issued under this Act shall be sold by
the Secretary at a price equal to the sum of--
(1) the face value of the coins; and
(2) the cost of designing and issuing the coins (including
labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses,
marketing, and shipping).
(b) Bulk Sales.--The Secretary may make bulk sales of the coins
issued under this Act at a reasonable discount.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
And the original mintage/product limit was fixed and now shows differently. Perhaps a Proof coin coming out next?
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
Nothing in the Law that I see indicates that proofs or other versions can't be issued in the future. These are the only requirements: Edited to add that even an original 90% silver version is possible. That would be a nice proof.
SEC. 3. COIN SPECIFICATIONS.
this Act referred to as the ``Secretary'') shall mint and issue $1 coins
in recognition of the 100th anniversary of completion of coinage of the
Morgan dollar and the 100th anniversary of commencement of coinage of
the Peace dollar, each of which shall--
(1) weigh 26.73 grams;
(2) have a diameter of 1.500 inches;
(3) contain not less than 90 percent silver; and
(4) have a reeded edge.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
PCGS has already graded almost 300 of the new Morgan and Peace dollars (but only 5 of the 6 different coins; the S Mint Morgan is not showing any yet.) The coins are listed in the Pop. Report as "Modern Silver and Clad Commemoratives". Every coin put into a holder so far has been MS70.
So here is a related First Strike question - I asked PCGS and could not get an explanation....
My understanding is that each of these has a limited production (175K (M) and 200K (P)), and they were all produced at the same time. PCGS has First Strike dates listed as oct 18 to nov 18 - So if all have been produced already, aren't they ALL First Strikes? If so what is the point of the designation, aside from the $18 grading premium?
Am I missing something?
Sup. Morgans are cool - So are Ducatis.
It appears PCGS has pulled this - I could not find the page or any by number...
Sup. Morgans are cool - So are Ducatis.
Could not find these either....
Sup. Morgans are cool - So are Ducatis.
They are classified as modern commemoratives. You will find them there.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Nope - do you have a link?
Sup. Morgans are cool - So are Ducatis.
Just to wrap up this discussion - The 2021 Morgan Dollars and 2021 Peace Dollar are NOT commemoratives. The production information and the COA received with them indicated they are produced per spec by the US Mint and are legal tender, so these are absolutely "real" US Dollars.
The question now is how to categorize them - New/old or continuation...
Sup. Morgans are cool - So are Ducatis.
If I can't walk into my local bank and get one out of the teller's drawer AT FACE VALUE then they are NOT regular production.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
You are confusing the designations. Commemorative is not the opposite of legal tender. All commemorative coins are legal tender. Commemorative medals are not legal tender.
Do you still have internet access to the PCGS website? Try looking at the PCGS population report at this link below and there they are right under commemoratives. You can call them whatever you want, but if you ask where to find them, I gave you an honest answer.
Try to be a bit more polite on a forum, and actually look where some actually take their valuable time providing answers, instead of being argumentative.
https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/modern-silver-clad-commemoratives-1982-date/792
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Yes, there is a very slight difference in thickness (the 2021's are slightly thinner) but it is barely perceptible to the naked eye.
Current PCGS pop report on the 2021 Morgan’s and Peace Silver Dollars…
2021 Morgan CC grade 70 = 1240; Total graded = 1240
2021 Morgan O grade 70 = 1125; Total graded = 1125
2021 Morgan S grade 70 = 1252; Total graded = 1252
2021 Morgan D grade 70 = 1108; Total graded = 1108
2021 Morgan Philadelphia grade 70 = 1242;Total graded = 1242
2021 Peace grade 70 = 1052; Total graded = 1052
Total graded 70 = 7019; Total graded = 7019…
I don't know, after seeing the less than premium quality of the 2021 Morgans, I would say NOT. On the other hand the 2021 Peace Dollars looks really nice and should/could be included in a set.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Included in the Proof series? Maybe.....I really don't know, and I will stay out of that discussion.
Included in the Business Strike series? Absolutely, positively, unequivically NO WAY! The Business strikes were meant for business/commerce, and were available at face-value. The new 2021s are not meant for business/commerce, and are not, in any way, shape or form, available at face-value.
Steve
Nope. These are not business strikes intended for commerce.
3 of my 12 peace dollars have issues.
I'm also not sure why production quality has any bearing on inclusion. The 2021 Morgans are all of higher quality than the originals.
These are not proofs.
So you would also exclude all original proof coins?
Neither were 1970-D Kennedys or 1996 W Roosevelt dimes.
Just sayin'.
Ok...why shouldn't these coins be treated the same as the "continuation" SBA coin that was minted many years after that series was thought to end?
I believe 18 years later...
And, using a closer analogy...the 1921 Morgans themselves were separated by a significant date gap from the other coins in the series...and does anyone not consider the 1921 coins to be part of the Morgan series?
Come on Bill. The folks pushing these commeratives as being part of a Morgan or Peace Dollar set wouldn't have profits as the prime motivating factor. It's all about numismatic orthodoxy (where are the sarcasm and tongue in cheek icons).
Original proof coins also were not intended for commerce. I think what’s being discussed here is the inclusion of the newcomers in business strike sets.
Any answer to this question must be consistent with thee things:
1) Among many other possible examples, the 1929 Half Eagle is considered a part of the Indian Head series.
2) The 2014 W Gold Half Dollar is considered a part of the Kennedy series (at least according to my Red Book.)
3) The 2016 W Quarter Dollar is not considered a part of the Standing Liberty series.
It's clear to me that none of a gap in dates, a change in composition, a relatively minor design change, a change in intent to circulate, or a perceived change in "commemorative" status is enough to terminate a series. The only thing that can terminate a series is a replacement of the same denomination. Since the Morgan dollar has been replaced by the Peace, Ike, SBA, Sacagawea, and the unholy mess of Presidential/Native American/Innovation dollars we've mostly been ignoring since 2007, the series was clearly terminated. Similarly, save one step, was the Peace. Therefore these coins, and any further coins struck with these approximate designs, are not a prt of the Morgan or Peace series.
But boy howdy does that leave a ton of grey area.
The legislation authorizing them says they are commemoratives.
That is Incorrect.
The Mint can only have two commemorative programs per year...
Your argument isn’t with me. Read the legislation.
There are a LOT of United States Mint coins that commemorate something. The Morgan's and Peace commemorate something. That does NOT make them commemoratives.
Commemoratives are a specific line item for the United States Mint. The United States Mint is limited to two commemorative programs per year Maximum. The two commemorative programs for 2021 are 1) National Law Enforcement and 2) Christa McAuliffe.
When the United States Mint report sales numbers, the Morgan's and Peace Silver dollars are NOT listed as commemoratives.
The Morgan's and Peace Silver Dollars are listed as "Precious Metal Products" by the United States Mint...
Commemoratives vs. Precious Metals Products per the United States Mint...
Commemoratives 21CA 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM GOLD PROOF
Commemoratives 21CB 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM GOLD UNC
Commemoratives 21CC 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM SILVER PROOF
Commemoratives 21CD 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM SILVER UNC
Commemoratives 21CE 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM CLAD PROOF
Commemoratives 21CF 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM CLAD UNC
Commemoratives 21CG 2021 NATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT MUSEUM 3-COIN SET
Commemoratives 21CH 2021 CHRISTA MCAULIFFE SILVER PROOF
Commemoratives 21CJ 2021 CHRISTA MCAULIFFE SILVER UNC
Precious Metal Products 21XC MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR CC PRIVY MARK
Precious Metal Products 21XD MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR O PRIVY MARK
Precious Metal Products 21XE MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR NO PRIVY MARK NO MINT MARK
Precious Metal Products 21XF MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR NO PRIVY MARK (S)
Precious Metal Products 21XG MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR NO PRIVY MARK (D)
Precious Metal Products 21XH PEACE SILVER DOLLAR WITH NO PRIVY MARK (P)
Neither were 1987 Kennedy's or 1981 SBA's.
There was legislation introduced for them under the commemorative coin program but it failed but this one succeeded as it isn't a commemorative coin program.
If the 1964 Peace Dollars were made, I'm sure they would be a part of the Peace Dollar series despite the 30 year gap between 1935 and 1965 (but dated 1964). Another point I'll make is are the 2009 UHR coins a part of the Saint Gaudens Double Eagle series? The $20 denomination simply ended in 1933 and Saints weren't replaced with something else. I personally think of the 2009 UHR as a part of the Saint Gaudens series.
The legislation was passed and signed into law (HR6192 116th Congress). The law states...
"These iconic silver dollars with vastly different representations of Lady Liberty and the American Eagle, reflect a changing of the guard in 1921 in the United States and therefore on the 100th anniversary must begin to be MINTED AGAIN TO COMMEMORATE this significant evolution of American freedom."
The coins are commemoratives.
@jmlanzaf It certainly sounds like you answered your own question in the opening title and yes they are called Morgans.
I'm not sure I understand what all the fuss is about, "Part of the Real series" vs. "Commemorative".
To me the real question for the Morgan collectors is, have you bought one yet?
At the time this thread started, that wasn't an option.
You say potato,,,,,,,,,, I say potahto
Wait what?! So they weren’t available in April but now they are. I don’t see how that answers your main question but I guess it does.
I knew better than to step into this thread but for some reason I just couldn’t help myself.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
How about the plain, D, and S could be part of the original series, but any thing requiring a Mint Privy can't be?
They all commeratives regards of where they were minted.