@Weiss said:
I didn't say I killed the argument, I just said I shot holes in it.
But in a death cage match, you have to pick one.
In the red corner:
Same size
Same weight
Same material
Same designer
Same design
Same producer
Monitized
Denominated
And named by act of congress and the US Mint
It's A MORGAN DOLLAR!!!!
And in the blue corner:
Something different came out in the interim
It's Not A MORGAN DOLLAR!!!!
Winner by knockout is:
It's a Morgan Dollar.
Congressional authorization says they are commemoratives. They are not the same material. The original Morgans are 90% silver, 10% copper. The new ones are 99.9% silver. They are not the same weight (1921 = 0.943oz, 2021 = 0.858oz). The finish on the coins is totally different. They are separated in production by 100 years.
Winner by submission = not part of the series.
Is a 1983 one cent piece not Lincoln Memorial cent?
Is a 1965 twenty five cent piece not a Washington quarter?
Is a 2002 twenty five cent piece not a Washington quarter?
Is a 1976 half dollar not a Kennedy half dollar?
Is a proof Jefferson nickel not a Jefferson nickel?
So, you are down to the 100 year gap. How long is acceptable? Is a 1999 dollar not an SBA dollar?
@jmlanzaf said:
LOL. That is the point, isn't it? It's just not that clear cut.
That's why I wrote this earlier:
If you want it to be, it's part of the set.
If you don't want it to be, it's not part of the set.
What belongs in a set, why an untoned set is as interesting as a toned one- some people just don't seem to be able to accept that not everything can be classified as right/wrong.
@Weiss said:
I didn't say I killed the argument, I just said I shot holes in it.
But in a death cage match, you have to pick one.
In the red corner:
Same size
Same weight
Same material
Same designer
Same design
Same producer
Monitized
Denominated
And named by act of congress and the US Mint
It's A MORGAN DOLLAR!!!!
And in the blue corner:
Something different came out in the interim
It's Not A MORGAN DOLLAR!!!!
Winner by knockout is:
It's a Morgan Dollar.
Congressional authorization says they are commemoratives. They are not the same material. The original Morgans are 90% silver, 10% copper. The new ones are 99.9% silver. They are not the same weight (1921 = 0.943oz, 2021 = 0.858oz). The finish on the coins is totally different. They are separated in production by 100 years.
Winner by submission = not part of the series.
Is a 1983 one cent piece not Lincoln Memorial cent?
Is a 1965 twenty five cent piece not a Washington quarter?
Is a 2002 twenty five cent piece not a Washington quarter?
Is a 1976 half dollar not a Kennedy half dollar?
Is a proof Jefferson nickel not a Jefferson nickel?
So, you are down to the 100 year gap. How long is acceptable? Is a 1999 dollar not an SBA dollar?
All of the examples you gave except the last are a continuation of business strike coins intended for circulation. The legislation for the 2021 Morgans identifies them as commemorative coins. Yes, the fact that there is a 100 year gap does matter. I countered the claims regard same material and weight with the FACTS. The 2021 Morgans are not part of the Morgan series.
How much are you selling the 2021 Morgans for?
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@Weiss said:
I didn't say I killed the argument, I just said I shot holes in it.
But in a death cage match, you have to pick one.
In the red corner:
Same size
Same weight
Same material
Same designer
Same design
Same producer
Monitized
Denominated
And named by act of congress and the US Mint
It's A MORGAN DOLLAR!!!!
And in the blue corner:
Something different came out in the interim
It's Not A MORGAN DOLLAR!!!!
Winner by knockout is:
It's a Morgan Dollar.
Congressional authorization says they are commemoratives. They are not the same material. The original Morgans are 90% silver, 10% copper. The new ones are 99.9% silver. They are not the same weight (1921 = 0.943oz, 2021 = 0.858oz). The finish on the coins is totally different. They are separated in production by 100 years.
Winner by submission = not part of the series.
Is a 1983 one cent piece not Lincoln Memorial cent?
Is a 1965 twenty five cent piece not a Washington quarter?
Is a 2002 twenty five cent piece not a Washington quarter?
Is a 1976 half dollar not a Kennedy half dollar?
Is a proof Jefferson nickel not a Jefferson nickel?
So, you are down to the 100 year gap. How long is acceptable? Is a 1999 dollar not an SBA dollar?
All of the examples you gave except the last are a continuation of business strike coins intended for circulation. The legislation for the 2021 Morgans identifies them as commemorative coins. Yes, the fact that there is a 100 year gap does matter. I countered the claims regard same material and weight with the FACTS. The 2021 Morgans are not part of the Morgan series.
How much are you selling the 2021 Morgans for?
They are continuations but all involve composition changes. The 1976 half is commemorative. So you are left with only the 100 year gap. But there are numerous gaps in coin issuance, notably the SBAs. So none of your arguments are irrefutable.
You keep implying that my opinion is somehow affected by my occasional dalliance in dealing. You've made that implication several times, including on your "allure" thread. Yet even that argument is rooted in ignorance. There are plenty of commemorative silver dollars that sell for more than original Morgan dollars.
If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins.
You might also note that I've argued AGAINST the long term value of these coins and almost all Mint products. So, my opinion is clearly not affected by whether or not I have any to sell. The value is determined by The Market not by me. I buy and sell based on The Market.
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
How many gold coins never go in circulation? Proof or MS and you will never see one at the bank at face, there are a lot of coins made that are not made for circulation but we excepted them as coins. Let’s say it’s a special addition of the old Morgan’s. Because they are going to probably mint may more for the years to come.
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
How many gold coins never go in circulation? Proof or MS and you will never see one at the bank at face, there are a lot of coins made that are not made for circulation but we excepted them as coins. Let’s say it’s a special addition of the old Morgan’s. Because they are going to probably mint may more for the years to come.
The issues is not how many never made it into circulation but the intent for making them I the first place. Proof coins have nothing to do with the discussion since they were not minted for circulation. And this Morgans according to the legislation authorizing them are commemorative coins not intended for circulation.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
How many gold coins never go in circulation? Proof or MS and you will never see one at the bank at face, there are a lot of coins made that are not made for circulation but we excepted them as coins. Let’s say it’s a special addition of the old Morgan’s. Because they are going to probably mint may more for the years to come.
The issues is not how many never made it into circulation but the intent for making them I the first place. Proof coins have nothing to do with the discussion since they were not minted for circulation. And this Morgans according to the legislation authorizing them are commemorative coins not intended for circulation.
Er.... just like proof coins... which you are illogically excluding.
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.) say they are not.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Total ignorance of how business works. Also ignores the fact that I've predicted these coins spiked drop in price NUMEROUS times in this forum.
I've also advised numerous times that people should plan on losing money on all coins they buy. Accusing me of pumping is more ignorant than it is offensive as it flies in the face of virtually everything I've said in this forum.
Contrary to your blather, these coins are not worth more or less of they are recognized a part of the series or not.
I'm done with you. It is one thing to disagree with me. It is quite another to continuously make unfounded accusations on this thread and the other.
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Total ignorance of how business works. Also ignores the fact that I've predicted these coins spiked drop in price NUMEROUS times in this forum.
I've also advised numerous times that people should plan on losing money on all coins they buy. Accusing me of pumping is more ignorant than it is offensive as it flies in the face of virtually everything I've said in this forum.
Contrary to your blather, these coins are not worth more or less of they are recognized a part of the series or not.
I'm done with you. It is one thing to disagree with me. It is quite another to continuously make unfounded accusations on this thread and the other.
You should have been done ten post prior since you've added nothing to support the claim that these coins are anything but commemoratives that technically are not part of the series.
Did you make and announce that these coins would spike and lose value before or after you sold them? That's a rhetorical question.
Supply and demand determines the price. The more Morgan collectors are convinced that this coins have to be considered part of a complete series the more that drives demand for a limited number of coins. Of course you're the astute business person so you know this.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Mom Dad they must be out to dinner. They are cool coins and every one should have one or two sets so when they are put in the book as a set you may get all your money back. Maybe not but you will have a cool set of MS-69's or 70's or SP-69's or 70's this is the beginning of the new Morgan's and Peace dollars sets.
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
Thanks, but it isn't worth arguing anymore. I finally used the "ignore" button. Should have done it 20 posts ago (or possibly 2000 posts ago! LMAO).
I am the worst pump-and-dump artist in history, however. LOL. I've been telling people since before the coins shipped that they were going to go down. I also predicted they will be below issue price in 2022.
I'm also rather notorious in these parts for always arguing that coins are not investments and should be considered sunk costs. But, hey, just because I'm bad at hype doesn't mean I'm not doing it, right?
I also don't necessarily think these belong in the original series. On the other hand, I don't think they necessarily can be immediately excluded. I find no definitive argument on either side. It is, after all, almost always fuzzy. For example, some people include proofs in a series, others ignore them. Some people include varieties, others ignore them. Then there's NCLT in general: some people don't even consider them to be "coins" at all.
Just wait until the reverse proofs come out. Then the war begins. Personally I don’t care but some of the drama is entertaining. As I have said “ I’m done with these. 😉
@Jzyskowski1 said:
Just wait until the reverse proofs come out. Then the war begins. Personally I don’t care but some of the drama is entertaining. As I have said “ I’m done with these. 😉
I'm almost done with these. I should be sold out within the week. With a little luck, I will break even. But I don't want any hanging around in 2022 when silver is $15 and these are selling for $60
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
The accusations are accurate. He has continued to hype the idea these coins are part of the series. There is zero factual or rational basis for those claims. The legislation authorizing them says they are commemorative coins. The coins are different in material and weight. The have a similar design but very different finish. They were never intended for circulation.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
The accusations are accurate. He has continued to hype the idea these coins are part of the series. There is zero factual or rational basis for those claims. The legislation authorizing them says the are commemorative coins. The coins are different in material and weight. The have a similar design but very different finish. They were never intended for circulation.
Having a different opinion from yours isn’t the same as “hype”. I’ve read his posts and not detected any hype. Quote the “hype”.
A number of other posters have expressed much stronger views than he has, but I haven’t seen you accuse them of hype,
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MasonG said:
I'm wondering how a coin that contains no copper can be said to be made of the same material as one that is 10% copper.
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
The accusations are accurate. He has continued to hype the idea these coins are part of the series. There is zero factual or rational basis for those claims. The legislation authorizing them says the are commemorative coins. The coins are different in material and weight. The have a similar design but very different finish. They were never intended for circulation.
Having a different opinion from yours isn’t the same as “hype”. I’ve read his posts and not detected any hype. Quote the “hype”.
A number of other posters have expressed much stronger views than he has, but I haven’t seen you accuse them of hype,
I'm a "dealer". I couldn't possibly have an opinion that wasn't rooted in some financial stake. He said the same thing on the other thread when I said something about white coins and he asked if I had a bunch of BU Morgans for sale.
He just has a problem with me or maybe all "dealers". It's not even worth discussing. Just a couple posts up, I stated that I'm not clear on whether they are in the series or not. I also "hyped" (yet again) the price dropping below issue price next year.
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
The accusations are accurate. He has continued to hype the idea these coins are part of the series. There is zero factual or rational basis for those claims. The legislation authorizing them says the are commemorative coins. The coins are different in material and weight. The have a similar design but very different finish. They were never intended for circulation.
Having a different opinion from yours isn’t the same as “hype”. I’ve read his posts and not detected any hype. Quote the “hype”.
A number of other posters have expressed much stronger views than he has, but I haven’t seen you accuse them of hype,
I've addressed him in particular because he has addressed me specifically.
The definition of hype is "to promote". He has promoted the idea that these coins are a continuation of the series. He has purchased and sold these coins for profit. Sellers promote the products they sell. In this case the sellers "opinion" is in line with promoting the coins to maximize his profit so he has a motivation beyond the pure collecting aspect to promote the coins as a continuation of the series IN SPITE OF FACTS that say otherwise. Everyone can have any opinion but everyone's opinion doesn't necessarily line up with the facts. You can have the opinion that the Earth is flat in spite of the facts that say otherwise.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
The coins have a different composition not because I say so but because the Mint speculations say so, 99.9% silver (2021) versus 90% silver and 10% copper (prior Morgan dollars).
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
The accusations are accurate. He has continued to hype the idea these coins are part of the series. There is zero factual or rational basis for those claims. The legislation authorizing them says the are commemorative coins. The coins are different in material and weight. The have a similar design but very different finish. They were never intended for circulation.
Having a different opinion from yours isn’t the same as “hype”. I’ve read his posts and not detected any hype. Quote the “hype”.
A number of other posters have expressed much stronger views than he has, but I haven’t seen you accuse them of hype,
I've addressed him in particular because he has addressed me specifically.
The definition of hype is "to promote". He has promoted the idea that these coins are a continuation of the series. He has purchased and sold these coins for profit. Sellers promote the products they sell. In this case the sellers "opinion" is in line with promoting the coins to maximize his profit so he has a motivation beyond the pure collecting aspect to promote the coins as a continuation of the series IN SPITE OF FACTS that say otherwise. Everyone can have any opinion but everyone's opinion doesn't necessarily line up with the facts. You can have the opinion that the Earth is flat in spite of the facts that say otherwise.
You didn’t show me any hype from him. I don’t think of “hype” as merely promoting. And, I don’t think you even showed that he promoted the coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There are plenty of coins out there (like the Mercury Dime and Standing Liberty Quarter. etc. etc. etc.) that are not and have never been considered as part of their original series.
The answer is NO.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
The accusations are accurate. He has continued to hype the idea these coins are part of the series. There is zero factual or rational basis for those claims. The legislation authorizing them says the are commemorative coins. The coins are different in material and weight. The have a similar design but very different finish. They were never intended for circulation.
Having a different opinion from yours isn’t the same as “hype”. I’ve read his posts and not detected any hype. Quote the “hype”.
A number of other posters have expressed much stronger views than he has, but I haven’t seen you accuse them of hype,
I've addressed him in particular because he has addressed me specifically.
The definition of hype is "to promote". He has promoted the idea that these coins are a continuation of the series. He has purchased and sold these coins for profit. Sellers promote the products they sell. In this case the sellers "opinion" is in line with promoting the coins to maximize his profit so he has a motivation beyond the pure collecting aspect to promote the coins as a continuation of the series IN SPITE OF FACTS that say otherwise. Everyone can have any opinion but everyone's opinion doesn't necessarily
Bull spit, sir. You made the same accusation on the "allure" thread about BU Morgans, of which I currently have NONE in inventory. You did not know I had any of these until I told you. You made a baseless accusation and you are now 1 for 3 in your random accusations of my alleged financial consideration.
I told people who wanted these coins and were locked out during the sale to wait until next year and they'd be cheaper. Go look it up.
You, sir, are full of spit.
I have sold zero of these coins on this forum. I have never sold any coin on this forum. These are not my customers.
My opinion, stated above, does not even claim these to be definitively part of the series. What I did do is point out that your arguments were also full of spit.
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
The accusations are accurate. He has continued to hype the idea these coins are part of the series. There is zero factual or rational basis for those claims. The legislation authorizing them says the are commemorative coins. The coins are different in material and weight. The have a similar design but very different finish. They were never intended for circulation.
Having a different opinion from yours isn’t the same as “hype”. I’ve read his posts and not detected any hype. Quote the “hype”.
A number of other posters have expressed much stronger views than he has, but I haven’t seen you accuse them of hype,
I've addressed him in particular because he has addressed me specifically.
The definition of hype is "to promote". He has promoted the idea that these coins are a continuation of the series. He has purchased and sold these coins for profit. Sellers promote the products they sell. In this case the sellers "opinion" is in line with promoting the coins to maximize his profit so he has a motivation beyond the pure collecting aspect to promote the coins as a continuation of the series IN SPITE OF FACTS that say otherwise. Everyone can have any opinion but everyone's opinion doesn't necessarily line up with the facts. You can have the opinion that the Earth is flat in spite of the facts that say otherwise.
You didn’t show me any hype from him. I don’t think of “hype” as merely promoting. And, I don’t think you even showed that he promoted the coins.
Just about every post he has made in this thread promoted (hyped) the idea that these coins are part of the Morgan series.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
The accusations are accurate. He has continued to hype the idea these coins are part of the series. There is zero factual or rational basis for those claims. The legislation authorizing them says the are commemorative coins. The coins are different in material and weight. The have a similar design but very different finish. They were never intended for circulation.
Having a different opinion from yours isn’t the same as “hype”. I’ve read his posts and not detected any hype. Quote the “hype”.
A number of other posters have expressed much stronger views than he has, but I haven’t seen you accuse them of hype,
I've addressed him in particular because he has addressed me specifically.
The definition of hype is "to promote". He has promoted the idea that these coins are a continuation of the series. He has purchased and sold these coins for profit. Sellers promote the products they sell. In this case the sellers "opinion" is in line with promoting the coins to maximize his profit so he has a motivation beyond the pure collecting aspect to promote the coins as a continuation of the series IN SPITE OF FACTS that say otherwise. Everyone can have any opinion but everyone's opinion doesn't necessarily
Bull spit, sir. You made the same accusation on the "allure" thread about BU Morgans, of which I currently have NONE in inventory. You did not know I had any of these until I told you. You made a baseless accusation and you are now 1 for 3 in your random accusations of my alleged financial consideration.
I told people who wanted these coins and were locked out during the sale to wait until next year and they'd be cheaper. Go look it up.
You, sir, are full of spit.
I have sold zero of these coins on this forum. I have never sold any coin on this forum. These are not my customers.
My opinion, stated above, does not even claim these to be definitively part of the series. What I did do is point out that your arguments were also full of spit.
@MFeld said:
And, I don’t think you even showed that he promoted the coins.
Well, he has said (multiple times) that he thinks prices will drop on the dollars. So there's that...
Facts don't matter.
He also accused me in the other thread of having BU Morgans to sell. I have NONE. He's just throwing bull spit around hoping something would stick.
I do know you purchase and sold these commemorative Morgans. You've promoted (hyped) the idea that these Morgans should be considered part of the series. Just about every post that said otherwise you've challenged. I never said anything about you selling BU anything else or than these Morgans but if you are in the business of selling coins I imagine you do sell other BU coins. But that's a side issue. The point is you have promoted these coins as being part of the series. You purchased and sold these coins hoping to make a profit. Anyone buying and selling a product promotes (hypes) that product. Just own up to it. Period, end of story.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
@MasonG said:
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.)
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
The accusations are accurate. He has continued to hype the idea these coins are part of the series. There is zero factual or rational basis for those claims. The legislation authorizing them says the are commemorative coins. The coins are different in material and weight. The have a similar design but very different finish. They were never intended for circulation.
Having a different opinion from yours isn’t the same as “hype”. I’ve read his posts and not detected any hype. Quote the “hype”.
A number of other posters have expressed much stronger views than he has, but I haven’t seen you accuse them of hype,
I've addressed him in particular because he has addressed me specifically.
The definition of hype is "to promote". He has promoted the idea that these coins are a continuation of the series. He has purchased and sold these coins for profit. Sellers promote the products they sell. In this case the sellers "opinion" is in line with promoting the coins to maximize his profit so he has a motivation beyond the pure collecting aspect to promote the coins as a continuation of the series IN SPITE OF FACTS that say otherwise. Everyone can have any opinion but everyone's opinion doesn't necessarily line up with the facts. You can have the opinion that the Earth is flat in spite of the facts that say otherwise.
You didn’t show me any hype from him. I don’t think of “hype” as merely promoting. And, I don’t think you even showed that he promoted the coins.
Just about every post he has made in this thread promoted (hyped) the idea that these coins are part of the Morgan series.
For whatever reason, you seem to be misinterpreting his intent and words. In my opinion, he’s neither promoted nor hyped the coins.
The floor is yours. I’m done with my part in beating this dead horse.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
Whose definition of "Lincoln Memorial cent" are you willing to accept?
Is a 1983 one cent piece not Lincoln Memorial cent?
Is a 1965 twenty five cent piece not a Washington quarter?
Is a 2002 twenty five cent piece not a Washington quarter?
Is a 1976 half dollar not a Kennedy half dollar?
Is a proof Jefferson nickel not a Jefferson nickel?
So, you are down to the 100 year gap. How long is acceptable? Is a 1999 dollar not an SBA dollar?
LOL. That is the point, isn't it? It's just not that clear cut.
That's why I wrote this earlier:
If you want it to be, it's part of the set.
If you don't want it to be, it's not part of the set.
What belongs in a set, why an untoned set is as interesting as a toned one- some people just don't seem to be able to accept that not everything can be classified as right/wrong.
All of the examples you gave except the last are a continuation of business strike coins intended for circulation. The legislation for the 2021 Morgans identifies them as commemorative coins. Yes, the fact that there is a 100 year gap does matter. I countered the claims regard same material and weight with the FACTS. The 2021 Morgans are not part of the Morgan series.
How much are you selling the 2021 Morgans for?
They are continuations but all involve composition changes. The 1976 half is commemorative. So you are left with only the 100 year gap. But there are numerous gaps in coin issuance, notably the SBAs. So none of your arguments are irrefutable.
You keep implying that my opinion is somehow affected by my occasional dalliance in dealing. You've made that implication several times, including on your "allure" thread. Yet even that argument is rooted in ignorance. There are plenty of commemorative silver dollars that sell for more than original Morgan dollars.
If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins.
You might also note that I've argued AGAINST the long term value of these coins and almost all Mint products. So, my opinion is clearly not affected by whether or not I have any to sell. The value is determined by The Market not by me. I buy and sell based on The Market.
How many different types/denominations of coins intended for circulation remained sitting in bags in the treasury for 80 years, and ultimately never did enter circulation?
The point is not never circulated. The point is never intended to be circulated. In this case (2021 Morgans) the legislation is clear that they are commemorative coins.
And State Quarters?
And proof coinage?
"Commemorative" is not compelling. Then 1895 Morgans are also not part of the series.
How many gold coins never go in circulation? Proof or MS and you will never see one at the bank at face, there are a lot of coins made that are not made for circulation but we excepted them as coins. Let’s say it’s a special addition of the old Morgan’s. Because they are going to probably mint may more for the years to come.
Hoard the keys.
Morgan dollars were intended for circulation but somehow, millions never made it there?
Interesting.
Well, political patronage is a whole other category...
Without which, those dollars might not exist. Right?
The issues is not how many never made it into circulation but the intent for making them I the first place. Proof coins have nothing to do with the discussion since they were not minted for circulation. And this Morgans according to the legislation authorizing them are commemorative coins not intended for circulation.
State quarters were minted for circulation. Proof coinage was not and technically would not be part of a series set.
And again, how much are you selling those 2021 Morgans for?
Er.... just like proof coins... which you are illogically excluding.
I told you. Read more carefully. $100.
And what does the MARKET price of those coins have to do with anything? Do you want to buy some?
Excuse me but saying "If these are $100 commemoratives or $100 "original series", they are $100 coins." is NOT telling me you are selling the coins for $100. But the fact that you are selling them tells me you have a financial motivation to drive the idea that these commemorative coins are part of the Morgan series when the FACTS regarding the legislation and striking of these coins (100 years after the series was end, different material content, weight, finish, etc.) say they are not.
In your libelous imagination. I buy wholesale and sell retail. I don't care WHY the price is what it is. I don't hold inventory, so I don't need them to go up. Only COLLECTORS who are holding coins care what the long term outlook is.
I've already stated numerous times in this forum that I believe these will go DOWN in value. Did that sound like I'm hyping them.
What we have learned, by your own words and rules, is that your statement that toned coins are "alluring" is absolute horse hockey. You're just hoping toned coins do you can get bailed out of your holdings.
You have no clothes, sir.
You purchased the coins to sell them for a profit. I'm guessing some of the individuals you sold to are still buyers you hope to sell to in the future so you continue to hype the coins you sold. You're not going to now admit after the fact that the coins you hyped prior to selling them are really not part of the series as you said prior to selling off your inventory.
The thread you are referring to is about the allure of BU high grade MS coins. Please go back through that tread and find the post where I said anything about toned coins being alluring. I'd tell you to hold your breathe while you're doing it but I wish no ill on anyone.
The 2021 Morgans are commeratives, different material, weight and finish versus the coins in the series. Buy and enjoy them as commeratives and stop with the hype about they are part of the series.
Total ignorance of how business works. Also ignores the fact that I've predicted these coins spiked drop in price NUMEROUS times in this forum.
I've also advised numerous times that people should plan on losing money on all coins they buy. Accusing me of pumping is more ignorant than it is offensive as it flies in the face of virtually everything I've said in this forum.
Contrary to your blather, these coins are not worth more or less of they are recognized a part of the series or not.
I'm done with you. It is one thing to disagree with me. It is quite another to continuously make unfounded accusations on this thread and the other.
You should have been done ten post prior since you've added nothing to support the claim that these coins are anything but commemoratives that technically are not part of the series.
Did you make and announce that these coins would spike and lose value before or after you sold them? That's a rhetorical question.
Supply and demand determines the price. The more Morgan collectors are convinced that this coins have to be considered part of a complete series the more that drives demand for a limited number of coins. Of course you're the astute business person so you know this.
Mom Dad they must be out to dinner. They are cool coins and every one should have one or two sets so when they are put in the book as a set you may get all your money back. Maybe not but you will have a cool set of MS-69's or 70's or SP-69's or 70's this is the beginning of the new Morgan's and Peace dollars sets.
Hoard the keys.
I’ll tell you how. Because @Weiss said so.> @pmh1nic said:
Your accusations regarding his hyping the coins, are baseless.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld
Thanks, but it isn't worth arguing anymore. I finally used the "ignore" button. Should have done it 20 posts ago (or possibly 2000 posts ago! LMAO).
I am the worst pump-and-dump artist in history, however. LOL. I've been telling people since before the coins shipped that they were going to go down. I also predicted they will be below issue price in 2022.
I'm also rather notorious in these parts for always arguing that coins are not investments and should be considered sunk costs. But, hey, just because I'm bad at hype doesn't mean I'm not doing it, right?
I also don't necessarily think these belong in the original series. On the other hand, I don't think they necessarily can be immediately excluded. I find no definitive argument on either side. It is, after all, almost always fuzzy. For example, some people include proofs in a series, others ignore them. Some people include varieties, others ignore them. Then there's NCLT in general: some people don't even consider them to be "coins" at all.
Just wait until the reverse proofs come out. Then the war begins. Personally I don’t care but some of the drama is entertaining. As I have said “ I’m done with these. 😉
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Sounds like you need to have the correct answer explained to you. I could suggest someone...
Lol. Nuance is dead.
We should talk about something that is clear cut... like eye appeal or luster. 😈
I'm almost done with these. I should be sold out within the week. With a little luck, I will break even. But I don't want any hanging around in 2022 when silver is $15 and these are selling for $60
I find it interesting that NGC avoids this modern commemorative or dollar classification discussion.
They call them Modern Special Issues.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
The accusations are accurate. He has continued to hype the idea these coins are part of the series. There is zero factual or rational basis for those claims. The legislation authorizing them says they are commemorative coins. The coins are different in material and weight. The have a similar design but very different finish. They were never intended for circulation.
I swear some people can't read.
Having a different opinion from yours isn’t the same as “hype”. I’ve read his posts and not detected any hype. Quote the “hype”.
A number of other posters have expressed much stronger views than he has, but I haven’t seen you accuse them of hype,
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'm a "dealer". I couldn't possibly have an opinion that wasn't rooted in some financial stake. He said the same thing on the other thread when I said something about white coins and he asked if I had a bunch of BU Morgans for sale.
He just has a problem with me or maybe all "dealers". It's not even worth discussing. Just a couple posts up, I stated that I'm not clear on whether they are in the series or not. I also "hyped" (yet again) the price dropping below issue price next year.
Facts don't matter.
You just want prices to drop so you can buy up a bunch of them cheap and make huge profits. It's what dealers do.
BALONEY!
You didn’t know that he was joking?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
He knows.
Good.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I've addressed him in particular because he has addressed me specifically.
The definition of hype is "to promote". He has promoted the idea that these coins are a continuation of the series. He has purchased and sold these coins for profit. Sellers promote the products they sell. In this case the sellers "opinion" is in line with promoting the coins to maximize his profit so he has a motivation beyond the pure collecting aspect to promote the coins as a continuation of the series IN SPITE OF FACTS that say otherwise. Everyone can have any opinion but everyone's opinion doesn't necessarily line up with the facts. You can have the opinion that the Earth is flat in spite of the facts that say otherwise.
Baloney is a term of acceptance from the other thread.
The coins have a different composition not because I say so but because the Mint speculations say so, 99.9% silver (2021) versus 90% silver and 10% copper (prior Morgan dollars).
You didn’t show me any hype from him. I don’t think of “hype” as merely promoting. And, I don’t think you even showed that he promoted the coins.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Well, he has said (multiple times) that he thinks prices will drop on the dollars. So there's that...
It seems awful plain to me.
There are plenty of coins out there (like the Mercury Dime and Standing Liberty Quarter. etc. etc. etc.) that are not and have never been considered as part of their original series.
The answer is NO.
Pete
Bull spit, sir. You made the same accusation on the "allure" thread about BU Morgans, of which I currently have NONE in inventory. You did not know I had any of these until I told you. You made a baseless accusation and you are now 1 for 3 in your random accusations of my alleged financial consideration.
I told people who wanted these coins and were locked out during the sale to wait until next year and they'd be cheaper. Go look it up.
You, sir, are full of spit.
I have sold zero of these coins on this forum. I have never sold any coin on this forum. These are not my customers.
My opinion, stated above, does not even claim these to be definitively part of the series. What I did do is point out that your arguments were also full of spit.
Facts don't matter.
He also accused me in the other thread of having BU Morgans to sell. I have NONE. He's just throwing bull spit around hoping something would stick.
Just about every post he has made in this thread promoted (hyped) the idea that these coins are part of the Morgan series.
I do know you purchase and sold these commemorative Morgans. You've promoted (hyped) the idea that these Morgans should be considered part of the series. Just about every post that said otherwise you've challenged. I never said anything about you selling BU anything else or than these Morgans but if you are in the business of selling coins I imagine you do sell other BU coins. But that's a side issue. The point is you have promoted these coins as being part of the series. You purchased and sold these coins hoping to make a profit. Anyone buying and selling a product promotes (hypes) that product. Just own up to it. Period, end of story.
For whatever reason, you seem to be misinterpreting his intent and words. In my opinion, he’s neither promoted nor hyped the coins.
The floor is yours. I’m done with my part in beating this dead horse.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have, on occasion, argued in favor of a position I did not actually prefer. I'm sure I'm the only one who's ever done that, though.