@jmlanzaf said:
I've stayed away from mentioning my position explicitly, but all of these estimates of future value require me to be more explicit. Sorry, Freddie, hope you are still ignoring me.
I have 60 of these coins on order (30 each type). I have not offered any of them for sale to either wholesalers or pre-sale on eBay. I can't be the only one. You can keep looking at alleged demand, but the demand needs to be weighed against supply. There is a LOT of supply sitting in reserve, possibly tens of thousands of coins. The restricted supply you see now is partly artificial.
In the end, you need 175,000 strong hands to want the coins. This one is a bit tricky because it is a "Morgan dollar". But 175,000 is a LOT for a standard commem. Even 100,000 for a commem would not hold value much less 200,000. So, you really need Morgan collectors to embrace this as part of the series AND want all 5 rather than just a single example coin. Based on my non-scientific poll on this forum, most people were rejecting them as part of the Morgan series. So you have 875,000 Morgan-type commemorative coins. It may take into 2022, but these will trade under $100 in my opinion, and likely under $85 by 2023. To be above that you either need 175,000 diamond hands who want the entire set (for $400 to $1000) or 875,000 who want a single coin, or some combination. That is a BIG ask.
Look at the Apollo coins. Space is a very collectible topic but the dollar coins (275,000 total of both types) are selling raw at $75 and $125 in 70. The 5 ouncers (100,000 max mintage) are only selling for $225 raw and $300 in 70. This is against a silver climate that has silver selling for $35 per ounce.
I wouldn't be shocked if these coins held the $150 level. However, I also wouldn't be at all surprised for them to drop below $100 in the next 18 months. 875,000 is a LOT of coins.
Strong hands? Think 2001 Buffalo Dollar. 250k. Still sells over $100.
A very rare exception for the US Mint.
But a very comparable example. A very popular design released as a one year release; commemorating 100 year anniversary. Huge collector bases.
Definitely huge collector base. The Pobjoy Mint's British Virgin Islands tribute to the Morgan and Peace dollars in silver, copper nickel, and gold (half gram) quickly sold out. This is highly unusual. At least I was able to get that one!
Sounds like some of the people here want the Mint to be the source of coins for their collection. The rest want the Mint to be the manufacturer of their inventory. The first group are diminishing in numbers since the Mint's marketing strategies the last few years has become one that satisfies the latter group.
The Mint's announcement of limited mintage coins and then actually using "fear of missing out" type verbiage in their product descriptions is yielding their intended result - hype to the point of chaos. They just don't have the technical where-with-all to pull it off (to achieve a sell-out) without disappointing both groups.
@rip_f said:
The Mint's announcement of limited mintage coins and then actually using "fear of missing out" type verbiage in their product descriptions is yielding their intended result - hype to the point of chaos. They just don't have the technical where-with-all to pull it off (to achieve a sell-out) without disappointing both groups.
If the mintage is limited, doesn't matter what the mint does, some people will be disappointed. Same result if the mintage is not limited, BTW.
@coiner said:
But a very comparable example. A very popular design released as a one year release; commemorating 100 year anniversary. Huge collector bases.
I am NOT knowledgable enough to 'weigh in' on the potential future value.
That said, I thought that the Mint was hoping to make Morgan & Peace dollars beyond 2021...
"Mint officials hope the 2021 dollars will sellout as that would signal support for an ongoing series of annual issues which is already permitted under the authorizing law.
Such a series could result in Morgan and Peace silver dollars with varying finishes, like proof, reverse proof, enhanced uncirculated and circulating, as well as special sets and product pairings.
It would be a non-commemorative annual program — similar to the American Eagle and Buffalo series — that could potentially create a new generation of Morgan and Peace dollar collectors." Source
@rip_f said:
The Mint's announcement of limited mintage coins and then actually using "fear of missing out" type verbiage in their product descriptions is yielding their intended result - hype to the point of chaos. They just don't have the technical where-with-all to pull it off (to achieve a sell-out) without disappointing both groups.
If the mintage is limited, doesn't matter what the mint does, some people will be disappointed. Same result if the mintage is not limited, BTW.
How about if the Mint just didn't publish the mintage/product limit?
Problem solved.
People would have to be willing to take some risk that the coin wasn't unlimited mintage or a high mintage.
That alone would remove the chaos surrounding these manufactured rarities - there wouldn't be guaranteed profit.
@rip_f said:
The Mint's announcement of limited mintage coins and then actually using "fear of missing out" type verbiage in their product descriptions is yielding their intended result - hype to the point of chaos. They just don't have the technical where-with-all to pull it off (to achieve a sell-out) without disappointing both groups.
If the mintage is limited, doesn't matter what the mint does, some people will be disappointed. Same result if the mintage is not limited, BTW.
How about if the Mint just didn't publish the mintage/product limit?
Problem solved.
This would be zero transparency and only those on the inside would no what is happening...
@jmlanzaf said:
I've stayed away from mentioning my position explicitly, but all of these estimates of future value require me to be more explicit. Sorry, Freddie, hope you are still ignoring me.
I have 60 of these coins on order (30 each type). I have not offered any of them for sale to either wholesalers or pre-sale on eBay. I can't be the only one. You can keep looking at alleged demand, but the demand needs to be weighed against supply. There is a LOT of supply sitting in reserve, possibly tens of thousands of coins. The restricted supply you see now is partly artificial.
In the end, you need 175,000 strong hands to want the coins. This one is a bit tricky because it is a "Morgan dollar". But 175,000 is a LOT for a standard commem. Even 100,000 for a commem would not hold value much less 200,000. So, you really need Morgan collectors to embrace this as part of the series AND want all 5 rather than just a single example coin. Based on my non-scientific poll on this forum, most people were rejecting them as part of the Morgan series. So you have 875,000 Morgan-type commemorative coins. It may take into 2022, but these will trade under $100 in my opinion, and likely under $85 by 2023. To be above that you either need 175,000 diamond hands who want the entire set (for $400 to $1000) or 875,000 who want a single coin, or some combination. That is a BIG ask.
Look at the Apollo coins. Space is a very collectible topic but the dollar coins (275,000 total of both types) are selling raw at $75 and $125 in 70. The 5 ouncers (100,000 max mintage) are only selling for $225 raw and $300 in 70. This is against a silver climate that has silver selling for $35 per ounce.
I wouldn't be shocked if these coins held the $150 level. However, I also wouldn't be at all surprised for them to drop below $100 in the next 18 months. 875,000 is a LOT of coins.
Strong hands? Think 2001 Buffalo Dollar. 250k. Still sells over $100.
A very rare exception for the US Mint.
But a very comparable example. A very popular design released as a one year release; commemorating 100 year anniversary. Huge collector bases.
875,000
500,000 total 2001 Buffalo Dollars absorbed by the market and 20 years later still in the $100+ range and held the $150+ range for many many years after release.
875,000 Morgans will be absorbed.
I don’t expect to see prices on the secondary market after release dropping below $150 for some time
@rip_f said:
How about if the Mint just didn't publish the mintage/product limit?
Problem solved.
I don't know that uncertainty would be a benefit.
The root problem is that the people who buy these coins have expectations that are not compatible. There is no answer will satisfy everybody.
Correct. There will not be a solution that will satisfy everyone. The interests are too divergent. The collectors want the ability to buy one coin easily. The flippers and dealers want an easy supplier of their inventory and lower mintages so they can sell quickly at big bucks.
@jmlanzaf said:
I've stayed away from mentioning my position explicitly, but all of these estimates of future value require me to be more explicit. Sorry, Freddie, hope you are still ignoring me.
I have 60 of these coins on order (30 each type). I have not offered any of them for sale to either wholesalers or pre-sale on eBay. I can't be the only one. You can keep looking at alleged demand, but the demand needs to be weighed against supply. There is a LOT of supply sitting in reserve, possibly tens of thousands of coins. The restricted supply you see now is partly artificial.
In the end, you need 175,000 strong hands to want the coins. This one is a bit tricky because it is a "Morgan dollar". But 175,000 is a LOT for a standard commem. Even 100,000 for a commem would not hold value much less 200,000. So, you really need Morgan collectors to embrace this as part of the series AND want all 5 rather than just a single example coin. Based on my non-scientific poll on this forum, most people were rejecting them as part of the Morgan series. So you have 875,000 Morgan-type commemorative coins. It may take into 2022, but these will trade under $100 in my opinion, and likely under $85 by 2023. To be above that you either need 175,000 diamond hands who want the entire set (for $400 to $1000) or 875,000 who want a single coin, or some combination. That is a BIG ask.
Look at the Apollo coins. Space is a very collectible topic but the dollar coins (275,000 total of both types) are selling raw at $75 and $125 in 70. The 5 ouncers (100,000 max mintage) are only selling for $225 raw and $300 in 70. This is against a silver climate that has silver selling for $35 per ounce.
I wouldn't be shocked if these coins held the $150 level. However, I also wouldn't be at all surprised for them to drop below $100 in the next 18 months. 875,000 is a LOT of coins.
Strong hands? Think 2001 Buffalo Dollar. 250k. Still sells over $100.
A very rare exception for the US Mint.
But a very comparable example. A very popular design released as a one year release; commemorating 100 year anniversary. Huge collector bases.
875,000
500,000 total 2001 Buffalo Dollars absorbed by the market and 20 years later still in the $100+ range and held the $150+ range for many many years after release.
875,000 Morgans will be absorbed.
I don’t expect to see prices on the secondary market after release dropping below $150 for some time
I don't expect them to go under $100. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
And I suppose the gold Merc, SLH and Walker sell for basically melt because they aren't iconic enough or they are too rare or they are gold????
The road to the US Mint is paved with broken hearts.
@coiner said:
But a very comparable example. A very popular design released as a one year release; commemorating 100 year anniversary. Huge collector bases.
I am NOT knowledgable enough to 'weigh in' on the potential future value.
That said, I thought that the Mint was hoping to make Morgan & Peace dollars beyond 2021...
"Mint officials hope the 2021 dollars will sellout as that would signal support for an ongoing series of annual issues which is already permitted under the authorizing law.
Such a series could result in Morgan and Peace silver dollars with varying finishes, like proof, reverse proof, enhanced uncirculated and circulating, as well as special sets and product pairings.
It would be a non-commemorative annual program — similar to the American Eagle and Buffalo series — that could potentially create a new generation of Morgan and Peace dollar collectors." Source
I am guessing that the privy mark Morgans will be a one year commemorative. The other mint marks for the Morgan and Peace dollars may be an annual occurrence after 2021. Having said that, I think the privy mark Morgans will be absorbed into the collectors market more easily than the new Morgan and Peace dollars. Just my opinion. (Therefore looks at it as 350,000 morgan dollar coins as opposed to 875,000 morgan dollar coins).
@JeffM said:
There will not be a solution that will satisfy everyone. The interests are too divergent. The collectors want the ability to buy one coin easily. The flippers and dealers want an easy supplier of their inventory and lower mintages so they can sell quickly at big bucks.
Ignore flippers and dealers entirely. The interests of collectors alone are too divergent.
@jmlanzaf said:
I've stayed away from mentioning my position explicitly, but all of these estimates of future value require me to be more explicit. Sorry, Freddie, hope you are still ignoring me.
I have 60 of these coins on order (30 each type). I have not offered any of them for sale to either wholesalers or pre-sale on eBay. I can't be the only one. You can keep looking at alleged demand, but the demand needs to be weighed against supply. There is a LOT of supply sitting in reserve, possibly tens of thousands of coins. The restricted supply you see now is partly artificial.
In the end, you need 175,000 strong hands to want the coins. This one is a bit tricky because it is a "Morgan dollar". But 175,000 is a LOT for a standard commem. Even 100,000 for a commem would not hold value much less 200,000. So, you really need Morgan collectors to embrace this as part of the series AND want all 5 rather than just a single example coin. Based on my non-scientific poll on this forum, most people were rejecting them as part of the Morgan series. So you have 875,000 Morgan-type commemorative coins. It may take into 2022, but these will trade under $100 in my opinion, and likely under $85 by 2023. To be above that you either need 175,000 diamond hands who want the entire set (for $400 to $1000) or 875,000 who want a single coin, or some combination. That is a BIG ask.
Look at the Apollo coins. Space is a very collectible topic but the dollar coins (275,000 total of both types) are selling raw at $75 and $125 in 70. The 5 ouncers (100,000 max mintage) are only selling for $225 raw and $300 in 70. This is against a silver climate that has silver selling for $35 per ounce.
I wouldn't be shocked if these coins held the $150 level. However, I also wouldn't be at all surprised for them to drop below $100 in the next 18 months. 875,000 is a LOT of coins.
Strong hands? Think 2001 Buffalo Dollar. 250k. Still sells over $100.
A very rare exception for the US Mint.
But a very comparable example. A very popular design released as a one year release; commemorating 100 year anniversary. Huge collector bases.
875,000
500,000 total 2001 Buffalo Dollars absorbed by the market and 20 years later still in the $100+ range and held the $150+ range for many many years after release.
875,000 Morgans will be absorbed.
I don’t expect to see prices on the secondary market after release dropping below $150 for some time
I don't expect them to go under $100. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
And I suppose the gold Merc, SLH and Walker sell for basically melt because they aren't iconic enough or they are too rare or they are gold????
The road to the US Mint is paved with broken hearts.
The gold Mercs are usually holding $300-340 in PR70, well above melt. OGP and unopened are also well above melt. So, a 50% or more premium seems like a pretty strong appreciation to me. Though I'm not sure what they were released at, price wise.
@jmlanzaf said:
I've stayed away from mentioning my position explicitly, but all of these estimates of future value require me to be more explicit. Sorry, Freddie, hope you are still ignoring me.
I have 60 of these coins on order (30 each type). I have not offered any of them for sale to either wholesalers or pre-sale on eBay. I can't be the only one. You can keep looking at alleged demand, but the demand needs to be weighed against supply. There is a LOT of supply sitting in reserve, possibly tens of thousands of coins. The restricted supply you see now is partly artificial.
In the end, you need 175,000 strong hands to want the coins. This one is a bit tricky because it is a "Morgan dollar". But 175,000 is a LOT for a standard commem. Even 100,000 for a commem would not hold value much less 200,000. So, you really need Morgan collectors to embrace this as part of the series AND want all 5 rather than just a single example coin. Based on my non-scientific poll on this forum, most people were rejecting them as part of the Morgan series. So you have 875,000 Morgan-type commemorative coins. It may take into 2022, but these will trade under $100 in my opinion, and likely under $85 by 2023. To be above that you either need 175,000 diamond hands who want the entire set (for $400 to $1000) or 875,000 who want a single coin, or some combination. That is a BIG ask.
Look at the Apollo coins. Space is a very collectible topic but the dollar coins (275,000 total of both types) are selling raw at $75 and $125 in 70. The 5 ouncers (100,000 max mintage) are only selling for $225 raw and $300 in 70. This is against a silver climate that has silver selling for $35 per ounce.
I wouldn't be shocked if these coins held the $150 level. However, I also wouldn't be at all surprised for them to drop below $100 in the next 18 months. 875,000 is a LOT of coins.
Strong hands? Think 2001 Buffalo Dollar. 250k. Still sells over $100.
A very rare exception for the US Mint.
But a very comparable example. A very popular design released as a one year release; commemorating 100 year anniversary. Huge collector bases.
875,000
500,000 total 2001 Buffalo Dollars absorbed by the market and 20 years later still in the $100+ range and held the $150+ range for many many years after release.
875,000 Morgans will be absorbed.
I don’t expect to see prices on the secondary market after release dropping below $150 for some time
I don't expect them to go under $100. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
And I suppose the gold Merc, SLH and Walker sell for basically melt because they aren't iconic enough or they are too rare or they are gold????
The road to the US Mint is paved with broken hearts.
The gold Mercs are usually holding $300-340 in PR70, well above melt. OGP and unopened are also well above melt. So, a 50% or more premium seems like a pretty strong appreciation to me. Though I'm not sure what they were released at, price wise.
@jmlanzaf said:
I've stayed away from mentioning my position explicitly, but all of these estimates of future value require me to be more explicit. Sorry, Freddie, hope you are still ignoring me.
I have 60 of these coins on order (30 each type). I have not offered any of them for sale to either wholesalers or pre-sale on eBay. I can't be the only one. You can keep looking at alleged demand, but the demand needs to be weighed against supply. There is a LOT of supply sitting in reserve, possibly tens of thousands of coins. The restricted supply you see now is partly artificial.
In the end, you need 175,000 strong hands to want the coins. This one is a bit tricky because it is a "Morgan dollar". But 175,000 is a LOT for a standard commem. Even 100,000 for a commem would not hold value much less 200,000. So, you really need Morgan collectors to embrace this as part of the series AND want all 5 rather than just a single example coin. Based on my non-scientific poll on this forum, most people were rejecting them as part of the Morgan series. So you have 875,000 Morgan-type commemorative coins. It may take into 2022, but these will trade under $100 in my opinion, and likely under $85 by 2023. To be above that you either need 175,000 diamond hands who want the entire set (for $400 to $1000) or 875,000 who want a single coin, or some combination. That is a BIG ask.
Look at the Apollo coins. Space is a very collectible topic but the dollar coins (275,000 total of both types) are selling raw at $75 and $125 in 70. The 5 ouncers (100,000 max mintage) are only selling for $225 raw and $300 in 70. This is against a silver climate that has silver selling for $35 per ounce.
I wouldn't be shocked if these coins held the $150 level. However, I also wouldn't be at all surprised for them to drop below $100 in the next 18 months. 875,000 is a LOT of coins.
Strong hands? Think 2001 Buffalo Dollar. 250k. Still sells over $100.
A very rare exception for the US Mint.
But a very comparable example. A very popular design released as a one year release; commemorating 100 year anniversary. Huge collector bases.
875,000
500,000 total 2001 Buffalo Dollars absorbed by the market and 20 years later still in the $100+ range and held the $150+ range for many many years after release.
875,000 Morgans will be absorbed.
I don’t expect to see prices on the secondary market after release dropping below $150 for some time
I don't expect them to go under $100. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
And I suppose the gold Merc, SLH and Walker sell for basically melt because they aren't iconic enough or they are too rare or they are gold????
The road to the US Mint is paved with broken hearts.
The gold Mercs are usually holding $300-340 in PR70, well above melt. OGP and unopened are also well above melt. So, a 50% or more premium seems like a pretty strong appreciation to me. Though I'm not sure what they were released at, price wise.
Greysheet bid is 225. Regional market maker is paying 215.
SUPPLY: 875,000 -> 175,000 of each 2021 Morgan issue
DEMAND from now until late 2021/early 2022:
... flippers
... FOMO
... collectors that see them as a) an addition to an existing series, b) collectable as a one time set, c) collectable in anticipation of an ongoing new series, d) other
DEMAND after late 2021/early 2022:
... collectors that see them as a) an addition to an existing series, b) collectable as a one time set, c) collectable in anticipation or knowledge of an ongoing new series, d) other
I would think that in general, a) and/or c) above could potentially sustain demand > supply.
As for the 2021 CC privy mark Morgan, as a Carson City collector (and local), I do not see it as falling under a) above.
... 2021 has no meaning as a commemoration of CC Morgans.....1978, 1993, 2028, 2043 perhaps, but not 2021
... not minted in Carson City
... exponentially small chance of containing Comstock lode silver
Steve Palladino - Ike Group member - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
@Goldminers said:
Imagine this thread going on until October??!!!
What a lot of time that could be better spent looking for some classic coins that are actually available.
If this thread goes on until October (or November), jmlanzaf will have over 25,000 posts.
With our without this thread, I will have 25,000 magnificent posts.
Contact Freddie if you need help with the ignore button.
I can't wait for the big 25,000 post JM giveaway Probably will be one of these $100 worthless Morgan's.
I was going to make the same offer I made on the silver eagles: to flip them to forum members at cost of they got locked out. @JeffM and others changed my mind.
I sold a bunch of eagles at cost, even lost a little money on shipping. But, you know what, I get the same crap either way so I might as well take the money.
Pretty sick of hearing about sour grapes. How about we talk about the new Morgans and Peace dollar?
While the Mint's continuing baffoonary is frustrating, it certainly keeps things interesting. When I'm not buying coins, I love to hunt. The thing that's truly fun about hunting is the chase, and that's also why I like coins. Finding the hidden gem, acquiring at a bargain, researching rarities. It's all great fun. In a way, each time the Mint releases a hot new product, it's like opening day. I'll be interested to know when the season opens again with the next group of Morgans. I'll be wearing my blaze orange!
@jmlanzaf said:
But then where would his compulsion manifest itself? He'd have to start smoking or shooting up.
I can see how it would be difficult for someone who wants to ignore another poster but still be sure that the other poster is regularly reminded that he's being ignored.
@jmlanzaf said:
But then where would his compulsion manifest itself? He'd have to start smoking or shooting up.
I can see how it would be difficult for someone who wants to ignore another poster but still be sure that the other poster is regularly reminded that he's being ignored.
I recommend everyone putting me on ignore. I would get into fewer arguments. Seems like people like to argue with me for 3 or 4 posts, but if I don't just surrender, they accuse me of being argumentative. I just have more stamina.
@jmlanzaf said:
Seems like people like to argue with me for 3 or 4 posts, but if I don't just surrender, they accuse me of being argumentative. I just have more stamina.
There are a surprisingly large number of people who have difficulty with the concept that others might not agree with them.
And I suppose the gold Merc, SLH and Walker sell for basically melt because they aren't iconic enough or they are too rare or they are gold????
The coins themselves were great but these issues IMO at least one of them left a bad taste in people's mouths. The original issue prices were a bit heavy and shook out some buyers... and the Merc issue in particular ticked off a lot of customers who, believing that it was sold out as advertised, went into the secondary market and bought them at big premiums only to have the Mint magically come up with another 9,000 for sale...at less than the original issue price. So they ticked off the original buyers as well. We didn't even go after the Walkers due to lack of interest.
Using the sold statistics isn't so helpful with these issues. Buyers who want out can just contact eBay at any time. Or, they could do chargebacks though it'd never get that far.
The us mint should do a lottery for 100 special coins, for free. Have an order limit of 1 per household with a 2 hour order window and sell 200,000 “tickets”. That would test the limits of their new website management software. 🤩
That would test the limits of their new website management software. 🤩
Okay. This thread grows daily. It'll explode once the next batch of Morgans are released. Here we are, June 9'th and still on hold with TBD...is the mint actually installing new website software?? How much longer will we be waiting? Not much happening in June, just the Pong Innovative Dollar, then July happens with all the type-2 ASE's...and AGE's...it's gonna be busy, we'll definitely be testing the limits of their new website software.
My only request for a new mint website shopping experience would be once an item is in your bag, you should be able to purchase it without it disappearing or freezing the program. Too many times I've had a coin in the bag and as I get to the end of the purchase, I get that pesky notification This Item is NO Longer Available....c'mon, I had it in the bag!!!!
I sold about 100,000 of them on eBay for $200 each. Now I'm heading to some country with no extradition treaty with the US, and some heavy suitcases full of linen...
“My only request for a new mint website shopping experience would be once an item is in your bag, you should be able to purchase it without it disappearing or freezing the program. Too many times I've had a coin in the bag and as I get to the end of the purchase, I get that pesky notification This Item is NO Longer Available....c'mon, I had it in the bag!!!!”
Comments
I don't know. Do SBA collectors consider the 1999s part of the series?
Yes
But then again...a 20-year "gap" is not a 100-year gap.
Definitely huge collector base. The Pobjoy Mint's British Virgin Islands tribute to the Morgan and Peace dollars in silver, copper nickel, and gold (half gram) quickly sold out. This is highly unusual. At least I was able to get that one!
Sounds like some of the people here want the Mint to be the source of coins for their collection. The rest want the Mint to be the manufacturer of their inventory. The first group are diminishing in numbers since the Mint's marketing strategies the last few years has become one that satisfies the latter group.
The Mint's announcement of limited mintage coins and then actually using "fear of missing out" type verbiage in their product descriptions is yielding their intended result - hype to the point of chaos. They just don't have the technical where-with-all to pull it off (to achieve a sell-out) without disappointing both groups.
If the mintage is limited, doesn't matter what the mint does, some people will be disappointed. Same result if the mintage is not limited, BTW.
I am NOT knowledgable enough to 'weigh in' on the potential future value.
That said, I thought that the Mint was hoping to make Morgan & Peace dollars beyond 2021...
"Mint officials hope the 2021 dollars will sellout as that would signal support for an ongoing series of annual issues which is already permitted under the authorizing law.
Such a series could result in Morgan and Peace silver dollars with varying finishes, like proof, reverse proof, enhanced uncirculated and circulating, as well as special sets and product pairings.
It would be a non-commemorative annual program — similar to the American Eagle and Buffalo series — that could potentially create a new generation of Morgan and Peace dollar collectors."
Source
How about if the Mint just didn't publish the mintage/product limit?
Problem solved.
People would have to be willing to take some risk that the coin wasn't unlimited mintage or a high mintage.
That alone would remove the chaos surrounding these manufactured rarities - there wouldn't be guaranteed profit.
21XC MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR CC PRIVY MARK 174,004 (231)
21XD MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR O PRIVY MARK 173,914 (411)
500,000 total 2001 Buffalo Dollars absorbed by the market and 20 years later still in the $100+ range and held the $150+ range for many many years after release.
875,000 Morgans will be absorbed.
I don’t expect to see prices on the secondary market after release dropping below $150 for some time
I don't know that uncertainty would be a benefit.
The root problem is that the people who buy these coins have expectations that are not compatible. There is no answer will satisfy everybody.
Correct. There will not be a solution that will satisfy everyone. The interests are too divergent. The collectors want the ability to buy one coin easily. The flippers and dealers want an easy supplier of their inventory and lower mintages so they can sell quickly at big bucks.
I don't expect them to go under $100. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did.
And I suppose the gold Merc, SLH and Walker sell for basically melt because they aren't iconic enough or they are too rare or they are gold????
The road to the US Mint is paved with broken hearts.
I am guessing that the privy mark Morgans will be a one year commemorative. The other mint marks for the Morgan and Peace dollars may be an annual occurrence after 2021. Having said that, I think the privy mark Morgans will be absorbed into the collectors market more easily than the new Morgan and Peace dollars. Just my opinion. (Therefore looks at it as 350,000 morgan dollar coins as opposed to 875,000 morgan dollar coins).
Ignore flippers and dealers entirely. The interests of collectors alone are too divergent.
The gold Mercs are usually holding $300-340 in PR70, well above melt. OGP and unopened are also well above melt. So, a 50% or more premium seems like a pretty strong appreciation to me. Though I'm not sure what they were released at, price wise.
Yes
The 2016 Mercury Dime was release at $205.00...
gold ranged from 1120 to 1370 in 2016
The United States Mint's price range for the Gold Mercury dime was $1,200.00 to $1,249.99...
Imagine this thread going on until October??!!!
What a lot of time that could be better spent looking for some classic coins that are actually available.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
If this thread goes on until October (or November), jmlanzaf will have over 25,000 posts.
With our without this thread, I will have 25,000 magnificent posts.
Contact Freddie if you need help with the ignore button.
It’ll probably fall off the top pages, but I’m going to check in with eBay updates from time to time.
Greysheet bid is 225. Regional market maker is paying 215.
What’s 329+ less costs?
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=2016+gold+mercury&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1
I can't wait for the big 25,000 post JM giveaway
Probably will be one of these $100 worthless Morgan's. 
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
SUPPLY: 875,000 -> 175,000 of each 2021 Morgan issue
DEMAND from now until late 2021/early 2022:
... flippers
... FOMO
... collectors that see them as a) an addition to an existing series, b) collectable as a one time set, c) collectable in anticipation of an ongoing new series, d) other
DEMAND after late 2021/early 2022:
... collectors that see them as a) an addition to an existing series, b) collectable as a one time set, c) collectable in anticipation or knowledge of an ongoing new series, d) other
I would think that in general, a) and/or c) above could potentially sustain demand > supply.
As for the 2021 CC privy mark Morgan, as a Carson City collector (and local), I do not see it as falling under a) above.
... 2021 has no meaning as a commemoration of CC Morgans.....1978, 1993, 2028, 2043 perhaps, but not 2021
... not minted in Carson City
... exponentially small chance of containing Comstock lode silver
- Ike Group member
- DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
I was going to make the same offer I made on the silver eagles: to flip them to forum members at cost of they got locked out. @JeffM and others changed my mind.
I sold a bunch of eagles at cost, even lost a little money on shipping. But, you know what, I get the same crap either way so I might as well take the money.
Pretty sick of hearing about sour grapes. How about we talk about the new Morgans and Peace dollar?
While the Mint's continuing baffoonary is frustrating, it certainly keeps things interesting. When I'm not buying coins, I love to hunt. The thing that's truly fun about hunting is the chase, and that's also why I like coins. Finding the hidden gem, acquiring at a bargain, researching rarities. It's all great fun. In a way, each time the Mint releases a hot new product, it's like opening day. I'll be interested to know when the season opens again with the next group of Morgans. I'll be wearing my blaze orange!
Try putting him on ignore! It's awesome not having to read his posts and it makes getting through the thread a LOT quicker!🤣😂
You should really see someone.
"Try putting him on ignore! It's awesome not having to read his posts and it makes getting through the thread a LOT quicker!"
Protip- it would be quicker still if you didn't keep taking time to comment about not reading his posts.
You're welcome!
But then where would his compulsion manifest itself? He'd have to start smoking or shooting up.
I can see how it would be difficult for someone who wants to ignore another poster but still be sure that the other poster is regularly reminded that he's being ignored.
I recommend everyone putting me on ignore. I would get into fewer arguments. Seems like people like to argue with me for 3 or 4 posts, but if I don't just surrender, they accuse me of being argumentative. I just have more stamina.
I really have nothing to say here. But if I don't hurry up and get to 18,000 I'm never going to get to 25,000.
There are a surprisingly large number of people who have difficulty with the concept that others might not agree with them.
And I suppose the gold Merc, SLH and Walker sell for basically melt because they aren't iconic enough or they are too rare or they are gold????
The coins themselves were great but these issues IMO at least one of them left a bad taste in people's mouths. The original issue prices were a bit heavy and shook out some buyers... and the Merc issue in particular ticked off a lot of customers who, believing that it was sold out as advertised, went into the secondary market and bought them at big premiums only to have the Mint magically come up with another 9,000 for sale...at less than the original issue price. So they ticked off the original buyers as well. We didn't even go after the Walkers due to lack of interest.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
400 auctions
18 new listings (earlier in the week there were 30)
Sorry...but eBay should definitely nuke these completed sales for the D & S coins.
"All orders will be fulfilled..." uh huh...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294207757887?hash=item4480261e3f:g:qD0AAOSwMV9gq~C7
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294207760503?hash=item4480262877:g:Ta0AAOSwF0lgq~P0
And also the Peace Dollar from another California seller!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304022621922?hash=item46c9290ee2:g:hOkAAOSwJvZgnyEy
$250 each. Eight sold in 24 hours!
What a hoot! You don’t have the coins and you don’t know when you’re going to get the coins but you’re selling the coins!
So now they're preselling an item that they have no assurance of actually obtaining, more than 90 days in advance...and immediate payment is required!
So who has the greater responsibility, here with this delayed issue, towards due diligence?
The seller or the buyer on eBay?
I think I'll start selling the 2022 Morgans while I still can. Early bird gets the worm!
Using the sold statistics isn't so helpful with these issues. Buyers who want out can just contact eBay at any time. Or, they could do chargebacks though it'd never get that far.
The us mint should do a lottery for 100 special coins, for free. Have an order limit of 1 per household with a 2 hour order window and sell 200,000 “tickets”. That would test the limits of their new website management software. 🤩
That would test the limits of their new website management software. 🤩
Okay. This thread grows daily. It'll explode once the next batch of Morgans are released. Here we are, June 9'th and still on hold with TBD...is the mint actually installing new website software?? How much longer will we be waiting? Not much happening in June, just the Pong Innovative Dollar, then July happens with all the type-2 ASE's...and AGE's...it's gonna be busy, we'll definitely be testing the limits of their new website software.
My only request for a new mint website shopping experience would be once an item is in your bag, you should be able to purchase it without it disappearing or freezing the program. Too many times I've had a coin in the bag and as I get to the end of the purchase, I get that pesky notification This Item is NO Longer Available....c'mon, I had it in the bag!!!!
I sold about 100,000 of them on eBay for $200 each. Now I'm heading to some country with no extradition treaty with the US, and some heavy suitcases full of linen...
Yup!!
“My only request for a new mint website shopping experience would be once an item is in your bag, you should be able to purchase it without it disappearing or freezing the program. Too many times I've had a coin in the bag and as I get to the end of the purchase, I get that pesky notification This Item is NO Longer Available....c'mon, I had it in the bag!!!!”