Does anyone want to debate who is the GOAT is now? Brady

BillJones · February 7, 2021 7:00PM

Brady and the Tampa defense totally out played them.

stevek · February 7, 2021 7:11PM

Yep, Brady is the GOAT, fair and square, no questions asked.

erikthredd · February 7, 2021 7:13PM

I’m just waiting to see what Max Kellerman has to say lol.

dagingerbeasttt · February 7, 2021 7:17PM

Was really hard to find, scarce research.. nothing on wexlers or variety vista... But I did find this...

BillJones · February 7, 2021 7:24PM

“Goat” used to be short for “scapegoat” for the guy who lost the game. It now has a new definition.

1951WheatiesPremium · February 7, 2021 7:28PM

Joe Montana

perkdog · February 7, 2021 7:31PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
Joe Montana

If Brady never played for the Pats I highly doubt you would be saying this really. No offense but anyone that can still say Montana is obviously a Patriot/Brady hater. It’s laughable at this point really

1951WheatiesPremium · February 7, 2021 7:48PM

I am neither.

Giants fan with no hatred for Patriots.

I list Tom Brady two. Said I thought Tampa would win NFC early on this year on these boards. Said the outcome of this game wouldn’t change my mind 2 weeks ago on the boards. Not a hater.

This is not the same game and not the same rules as when Joe Montana played. Give me the guy who played when the game was tougher all day long. The hit he took from Leonard Marshall that ended his season, 49er career and nearly his ability to walk would be a definite ejection and likely suspension in today’s game.

It didn’t even draw a flag in that game.

And pass interference is now an offensive weapon - the heave and flop. It’s an actual play teams practice and run pretty often. Pass interference used to be tackling the guy in stride when he beat you. It had to be egregious, not a hand on the hip six yards off the line of scrimmage.

Again, I’ve been down this road before and will stick to my guns once again. It’s not an insult to call a guy second best of all time.

I think LT is the greatest defender in the history of the sport and when he gets called number I do not get all up in arms about it.

People have this need to believe the guys they’re seeing have to be the greatest of all time and guys they didn’t see couldn’t possibly be as good. Stats become the basis of arguments but the context of the stats don’t get emphasized. Dan Marino had touchdowns and yards for 25 years, rules were changed and now each gets a new mark every 2 years.

I choose not to ignore this, to contextualize it and compare accurately.

I highly recommend people go back and watch some old sports games and note some of the differences. Key is trying to leave your assumptions at the door.

grote15 · February 7, 2021 7:50PM

That question was answered before this season but this latest championship is just icing on the cake for the greatest to ever play the position.

perkdog · February 7, 2021 7:50PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
I am neither.

Giants fan with no hatred for Patriots.

I list Tom Brady two. Said I thought Tampa would win NFC early on this year on these boards. Said the outcome of this game wouldn’t change my mind 2 weeks ago on the boards. Not a hater.

This is not the same game and not the same rules as when Joe Montana played. Give me the guy who played when the game was tougher all day long. The hit he took from Leonard Marshall that ended his season, 49er career and nearly his ability to walk would be a definite ejection and likely suspension in today’s game.

It didn’t even draw a flag in that game.

And pass interference is now an offensive weapon - the heave and flop. It’s an actual play teams practice and run pretty often. Pass interference used to be tackling the guy in stride when he beat you. It had to be egregious, not a hand on the hip six yards off the line of scrimmage.

Again, I’ve been down this road before and will stick to my guns once again. It’s not an insult to call a guy second best of all time.

I think LT is the greatest defender in the history of the sport and when he gets called number I do not get all up in arms about it.

People have this need to believe the guys they’re seeing have to be the greatest of all time and guys they didn’t see couldn’t possibly be as good. Stats become the basis of arguments but the context of the stats don’t get emphasized. Dan Marino had touchdowns and yards for 25 years, rules were changed and now each gets a new mark every 2 years.

I choose not to ignore this, to contextualize it and compare accurately.

I highly recommend people go back and watch some old sports games and note some of the differences. Key is trying to leave your assumptions at the door.

Yea Cool story. Brady is the GOAT regardless

1951WheatiesPremium · February 7, 2021 7:52PM

@perkdog

That’s your boy, Paul.

Enjoy your night.

craig44 · February 7, 2021 7:53PM

brady was GOAT before this game. this Is just gravy.

perkdog · February 7, 2021 7:55PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@perkdog

That’s your boy, Paul.

Enjoy your night.

You too Tim

1951WheatiesPremium · February 7, 2021 7:55PM

@perkdog

Have fun with this one...

craig44 · February 7, 2021 7:57PM

Tompa Bay!!!

perkdog · February 7, 2021 8:03PM

@craig44 said:
brady was GOAT before this game. this Is just gravy.

I mean when he got #5 that wasn’t enough, #6 there were still a few doubters and now here we are at #7. I mean there are even less doubters now but there has to be a few stragglers still and I truly believe it’s a Brady/NE hatred thing really. The guy goes to a new team, gets a new coaching staff, new everything and brings home a Super Bowl winning season? It’s ridiculous, he might as well just retire because nothing he will do will ever change the minds of the Montana guys.

perkdog · February 7, 2021 8:05PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@perkdog

Have fun with this one...

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

1951WheatiesPremium · February 7, 2021 8:10PM

@perkdog

Look at it this way. When he’s got lots of records and rings in 20 years, Mahomes won’t pass Brady for #2 with me. I won’t forget what I saw here either - Brady has been a joy to watch.

That’s about the best I can do.

And after that meme, you better take it 😂😂😂

thisistheshow · February 7, 2021 8:11PM

Brady really controlled that game start to finish. As a Pats fan I never had a stress free ending like that.

BUCS defense had a great plan from the beginning.

If I was a Chiefs fan, I'd be wishing they had tried to run more. It looked like they were getting some decent movement that way. The Bucs didn't have to blitz. They took Hill out of the game. Kelce, despite being blanketed, still got numbers but it didn't mean much. He had some key drops as well.

coolstanley · February 7, 2021 11:04PM

He's the greatest QB ever. A better question would be...Is he one of the top 10 or 20 greatest athletes in history?

perkdog · February 8, 2021 2:10AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@perkdog

Look at it this way. When he’s got lots of records and rings in 20 years, Mahomes won’t pass Brady for #2 with me. I won’t forget what I saw here either - Brady has been a joy to watch.

That’s about the best I can do.

And after that meme, you better take it 😂😂😂

It’s all good. look, just because I think your off your rocker with this Montana thing don’t think of it as disrespect because I do know your a well spoken sports talk guy and appreciate your input. The Brady vs Montana thing we are worlds apart on but we can still get along just fine. 🍻

WingedLiberty1957 · February 8, 2021 3:21AM

and every single team had a shot at drafting him ... he was taken in the 6th round of the draft!

stevek · February 8, 2021 3:24AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
I am neither.

Giants fan with no hatred for Patriots.

I list Tom Brady two. Said I thought Tampa would win NFC early on this year on these boards. Said the outcome of this game wouldn’t change my mind 2 weeks ago on the boards. Not a hater.

This is not the same game and not the same rules as when Joe Montana played. Give me the guy who played when the game was tougher all day long. The hit he took from Leonard Marshall that ended his season, 49er career and nearly his ability to walk would be a definite ejection and likely suspension in today’s game.

It didn’t even draw a flag in that game.

And pass interference is now an offensive weapon - the heave and flop. It’s an actual play teams practice and run pretty often. Pass interference used to be tackling the guy in stride when he beat you. It had to be egregious, not a hand on the hip six yards off the line of scrimmage.

Again, I’ve been down this road before and will stick to my guns once again. It’s not an insult to call a guy second best of all time.

I think LT is the greatest defender in the history of the sport and when he gets called number I do not get all up in arms about it.

People have this need to believe the guys they’re seeing have to be the greatest of all time and guys they didn’t see couldn’t possibly be as good. Stats become the basis of arguments but the context of the stats don’t get emphasized. Dan Marino had touchdowns and yards for 25 years, rules were changed and now each gets a new mark every 2 years.

I choose not to ignore this, to contextualize it and compare accurately.

I highly recommend people go back and watch some old sports games and note some of the differences. Key is trying to leave your assumptions at the door.

I don't disagree with your basic premise. Prime for prime, in one game, i would still take Joe Montana over Tom Brady. And before this season, i still had Montana at #1, and Brady at #2 for GOAT.

However in my view, people should be flexible and adapt to ever changing circumstances in life, and that includes sports fans and their GOAT consideration. Brady winning the Super Bowl at 43 years old with a new team and coach is just too remarkable of an achievement, along with his long list of other achievements, not to acknowledge at this point that he is the greatest NFL QB of all time.

1951WheatiesPremium · February 8, 2021 4:06AM

@stevek

All good. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Just remember, in about half the SuperBowl wins, you needed Tom Brady’s arm and Adam Vinatieri’s leg.

And I don’t know who kicked FGs for the 49ers.

😉

1948_Swell_Robinson · February 8, 2021 5:52AM

Brady eclipsed Montana a long time ago. Aside from Brady's accomplishments in winning in both the regular season and playoffs, which are unmatched, and his statistical achievement...Brady's physical tools dwarf Montana's. Brady's size and strength beat Montana.

Brady's arm at age 43 is stronger than Montana's ever was. Brady can simply make some throws that Montana could not because Brady has the stronger arm.

Brady's height also gives him another advantage at QB. Brady making a key throw over the line in yesterday's game was a good example.

Those are things Montana physically cannot do as well as Brady.

Brady has Montana beat in the concrete measurable physical tools....and then he has proven that he has any QB beat in everything else that goes into the game of a QB, including reading a defense, decision making, leadership, and being able to lead a team to victory.

Add the fact that Brady did that in and held that ability over more starts than any QB in history, it is a no brainer.

Brady is Mickey Mantle and Hank Aaron rolled up into one player.

Case has been closed for quite a while already.

1951WheatiesPremium · February 8, 2021 6:01AM

@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

JoeBanzai · February 8, 2021 6:12AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

Just look back to January 24, 2010 if you want to see a QB cheap shotted into submission.

1948_Swell_Robinson · February 8, 2021 6:19AM

@JoeBanzai said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

.

I do keep that in mind.

However, keep in mind that Defensive players are 50 pounds bigger, faster, and stronger. It is a far different beast chasing Brady than what Montana faced. It is much harder to evade those guys and impossible to get out of their grasp. Mahomes got beat up bad yesterday, and only Mahomes elite skills prevented it from looking worse.

Montana played in the 80's and they protected the QB too. It wasn't like he played in the 1940's. Offensive rules were made easier before Montana arrived.

Brady could have retired five years ago and the fact would have remained that Brady was bigger, stronger, and had a much stronger arm.

1951WheatiesPremium · February 8, 2021 6:19AM

@1948_Swell_Robinson said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

I keep that in mind.

But keep in mind that the defensive guys now weigh 50 pounds more, can run faster, and are stronger. It is a different beast chasing Brady than what was chasing Montana. Qb's still get smashed today. Getting smashed by someone that is bigger, faster, and stronger takes its toll faster, and is harder to get away from or out of their grasp. Mahomes got beat up pretty good yesterday, and only Mahomes elite skills kept it from looking worse.

It is not like Montana played in the 1940's. The 1980's still protected the QB and the passing game was opened up per rules before Montana started.

And like I said, Brady's superior physical tools is enough needed to make him better than Montana. Brady could have retired five years ago, and the fact was that he was bigger, stronger, and had a better arm.

You are entitled to your opinions and you certainly make a good case.

The rules changes made in the early 2000s, often called the Manning-Brady rules, were game changers. Affected how you could attack QBs and how you could defend receivers.

With no hose changes, the teeth were taken out of the beasts.

I’ll again point to Leonard Marshall’s hit that nearly ended Joe Montana’s career; their was no flag. Today that is an immediate ejection and possible suspension. Back then, they rolled off Joe and rolled out Steve Young and Leonard Marshall kept right on playing.

That is a tangible, visceral difference: QBs are aware of this and can hold the ball just a little longer and will look to extend plays more knowing that the guy can only tackle them ‘safely’.

Great story? Ron Jaworski once called a timeout when he couldn’t find LT at the line of scrimmage. Looked all over, didn’t see him and burned one.

LT was on the sideline, getting a play off.

When asked why he did this, Jaworski basically said, “I didn’t want to die.” And while he was being hyperbolic, I think we all get what he’s saying.

thisistheshow · February 8, 2021 6:19AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

Brady is as tough as anyone. Patriots fans who watched him every game know that. https://youtu.be/M4OTH0pddv4

Also, remember that he won two SBs before the league had to change the rules for DBs just so Manning could get in on the winning too.

perkdog · February 8, 2021 6:20AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

Tim, they did throw flags for roughing the passer back in Montana’s day. Your talking like he took a back alley beating every time he dropped back. Part of the QB is pocket presence and being smart to avoid getting hit, if you actually watched Brady you would absolutely see that his pocket presence is remarkable. He is 6’4 which is 2 inches taller than Montana, and probably weighs about 25-35 pounds more, and that’s not due to steroids or heavy weight lifting either and that helps with durability. The game was certainly “Rougher” back in Montana’s day but not as tough as it was in Otto Graham’s day and Graham won a lot more than Montana

1948_Swell_Robinson · February 8, 2021 6:22AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@1948_Swell_Robinson said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

I keep that in mind.

But keep in mind that the defensive guys now weigh 50 pounds more, can run faster, and are stronger. It is a different beast chasing Brady than what was chasing Montana. Qb's still get smashed today. Getting smashed by someone that is bigger, faster, and stronger takes its toll faster, and is harder to get away from or out of their grasp. Mahomes got beat up pretty good yesterday, and only Mahomes elite skills kept it from looking worse.

It is not like Montana played in the 1940's. The 1980's still protected the QB and the passing game was opened up per rules before Montana started.

And like I said, Brady's superior physical tools is enough needed to make him better than Montana. Brady could have retired five years ago, and the fact was that he was bigger, stronger, and had a better arm.

You are entitled to your opinions and you certainly make a good case.

The rules changes made in the early 2000s, often called the Manning-Brady rules, were game changers. Affected how you could attack QBs and how you could defend receivers.

With no hose changes, the teeth were taken out of the beasts.

I’ll again point to Leonard Marshall’s hit that nearly ended Joe Montana’s career; their was no flag. Today that is an immediate ejection and possible suspension. Back then, they rolled off Joe and rolled out Steve Young and Leonard Marshall kept right on playing.

That is a tangible, visceral difference: QBs are aware of this and can hold the ball just a little longer and will look to extend plays more knowing that the guy can only tackle them ‘safely’.

Great story? Ron Jaworski once called a timeout when he couldn’t find LT at the line of scrimmage. Looked all over, didn’t see him and burned one.

LT was on the sideline, getting a play off.

When asked why he did this, Jaworski basically said, “I didn’t want to die.” And while he was being hyperbolic, I think we all get what he’s saying.

And not on of those players were anywhere near the size, and/or as fast, or strong as the players chasing down Brady and Mahomes. The guys now truly would cripple someone.

1951WheatiesPremium · February 8, 2021 6:22AM

@thisistheshow said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

Brady is as tough as anyone. Patriots fans who watched him every game know that. https://youtu.be/M4OTH0pddv4

Also, remember that he won two SBs before the league had to change the rules for DBs just so Manning could get in on the winning too.

I am not questioning anything about Tom Brady, gents.

I saw both men play and have them 1-2 all time. I am still not sure how that is an insult to either one.

Not like I’m arguing for Ken Anderson here 😂

1948_Swell_Robinson · February 8, 2021 6:23AM

@perkdog said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

Tim, they did throw flags for roughing the passer back in Montana’s day. Your talking like he took a back alley beating every time he dropped back. Part of the QB is pocket presence and being smart to avoid getting hit, if you actually watched Brady you would absolutely see that his pocket presence is remarkable. He is 6’4 which is 2 inches taller than Montana, and probably weighs about 25-35 pounds more, and that’s not due to steroids or heavy weight lifting either and that helps with durability. The game was certainly “Rougher” back in Montana’s day but not as tough as it was in Otto Graham’s day and Graham won a lot more than Montana

Exactly, and what I would say to Dallas. It isn't an opinion. Brady is bigger and stronger. Brady has a MUCH stronger arm, and that is the most important measurable.

I don't need a single playoff game to see Brady was better. I only need them to show that Brady's superior tools also come with elite decision making, defense reading, and ability to lead team to victory in unmatched fashion.

keets · February 8, 2021 6:24AM

Does anyone want to debate who is the GOAT is now?

no, not any longer.

thisistheshow · February 8, 2021 6:25AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@thisistheshow said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

Brady is as tough as anyone. Patriots fans who watched him every game know that. https://youtu.be/M4OTH0pddv4

Also, remember that he won two SBs before the league had to change the rules for DBs just so Manning could get in on the winning too.

I am not questioning anything about Tom Brady, gents.

I saw both men play and have them 1-2 all time. I am still not sure how that is an insult to either one.

Not like I’m arguing for Ken Anderson here 😂

I'm just saying that Brady is tough. This isn't the narrative that a lot of people have. And I'm saying that he had multiple rings before the DB rules were changed to accommodate Manning. I respect your opinion. If someone is going to say it's not Brady, Montana is the way to go.

Edited because, as I reread this comment, I realized my phone autocorrected "DB" to "SB".

1951WheatiesPremium · February 8, 2021 6:29AM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c8uVZVbexJo

In the fourth quarter of the 1990 NFC Championship Game, Montana was hit so hard by New York Giants defensive end Leonard Marshall he suffered a bruised sternum, bruised stomach, cracked ribs and a broken hand. There was some initial concern he might not walk again. Montana missed all of the 1991 season and most of the 1992 season, never starting another game for the 49ers.

1948_Swell_Robinson · February 8, 2021 6:29AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@thisistheshow said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

Brady is as tough as anyone. Patriots fans who watched him every game know that. https://youtu.be/M4OTH0pddv4

Also, remember that he won two SBs before the league had to change the rules for DBs just so Manning could get in on the winning too.

I am not questioning anything about Tom Brady, gents.

I saw both men play and have them 1-2 all time. I am still not sure how that is an insult to either one.

Not like I’m arguing for Ken Anderson here 😂

What I would say to Dallas, it isn't an opinion. Brady is bigger and stronger. Brady has a MUCH stronger arm, and that is the most important measurable.

I don't need a single playoff game to see Brady was better. I only need them to show that Brady's superior tools also come with elite decision making, elite defense reading, and ability to lead team to victory in unmatched fashion.

BillJones · February 8, 2021 6:34AM

Brady was badly injured in, I believe the second game during one season. He had a terrible infection, which laid him low for months. He came back stronger than ever. Brandy has had his share of hard knocks too. He's a lot stronger than most people, and he has taken incredible care of his body.

1948_Swell_Robinson · February 8, 2021 6:35AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c8uVZVbexJo

In the fourth quarter of the 1990 NFC Championship Game, Montana was hit so hard by New York Giants defensive end Leonard Marshall he suffered a bruised sternum, bruised stomach, cracked ribs and a broken hand. There was some initial concern he might not walk again. Montana missed all of the 1991 season and most of the 1992 season, never starting another game for the 49ers.

He should have read the defense better.

Someone a couple inches taller may have seen something over the line a little better and got rid of the pass

Good thing he wasn't being chased by a beast 30 pounds heavier, stronger, and faster.

perkdog · February 8, 2021 6:42AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c8uVZVbexJo

In the fourth quarter of the 1990 NFC Championship Game, Montana was hit so hard by New York Giants defensive end Leonard Marshall he suffered a bruised sternum, bruised stomach, cracked ribs and a broken hand. There was some initial concern he might not walk again. Montana missed all of the 1991 season and most of the 1992 season, never starting another game for the 49ers.

And Brady faces the potential for the exact same type of hit like every other QB that plays the game. The only difference is nowadays there are guys more brutally stronger and faster than Leonard Marshall lol

1951WheatiesPremium · February 8, 2021 6:43AM

@1948_Swell_Robinson said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c8uVZVbexJo

In the fourth quarter of the 1990 NFC Championship Game, Montana was hit so hard by New York Giants defensive end Leonard Marshall he suffered a bruised sternum, bruised stomach, cracked ribs and a broken hand. There was some initial concern he might not walk again. Montana missed all of the 1991 season and most of the 1992 season, never starting another game for the 49ers.

He should have read the defense better.

Someone a couple inches taller may have seen something over the line a little better and got rid of the pass

Good thing he wasn't being chased by a beast 30 pounds heavier, stronger, and faster.

Also good that the spear tackle - helmet first to back from blind side - was outlawed. Leonard Marshall would now have to hug him around the waist and fall backward.

craig44 · February 8, 2021 6:43AM

@thisistheshow said:
Brady really controlled that game start to finish. As a Pats fan I never had a stress free ending like that.

BUCS defense had a great plan from the beginning.

If I was a Chiefs fan, I'd be wishing they had tried to run more. It looked like they were getting some decent movement that way. The Bucs didn't have to blitz. They took Hill out of the game. Kelce, despite being blanketed, still got numbers but it didn't mean much. He had some key drops as well.

that's funny, I said the same thing to the wife last night. with the Pats, I felt like I was going to have a stroke heading into the 4th quarter of every super bowl. it was nice to just enjoy the 4th quarter.

perkdog · February 8, 2021 6:44AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@thisistheshow said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

Brady is as tough as anyone. Patriots fans who watched him every game know that. https://youtu.be/M4OTH0pddv4

Also, remember that he won two SBs before the league had to change the rules for DBs just so Manning could get in on the winning too.

I am not questioning anything about Tom Brady, gents.

Not like I’m arguing for Ken Anderson here 😂

😂😂😂

JoeBanzai · February 8, 2021 6:45AM

@1948_Swell_Robinson said:

However, keep in mind that Defensive players are 50 pounds bigger, faster, and stronger. It is a far different beast chasing Brady than what Montana faced. It is much harder to evade those guys and impossible to get out of their grasp. Mahomes got beat up bad yesterday, and only Mahomes elite skills prevented it from looking worse.

The offensive linemen are all bigger too. Almost all are over 300 pounds and agile.

Montana played in the 80's and they protected the QB too. It wasn't like he played in the 1940's. Offensive rules were made easier before Montana arrived.

True, but they are getting changed every year. Case in point, when Rodgers got hurt by Anthony Barr they have now ruled you can't even fall "hard" on a QB when he is being sacked even after running out of the pocket. Ridiculous.

Brady could have retired five years ago and the fact would have remained that Brady was bigger, stronger, and had a much stronger arm.

I was in the Montana "camp" for a long time. I would have to say that Brady's length of career does elevate him to GOAT. There are many contributing factors. Marino would have probably done a lot better had he played for the Patriots than the Dolphins, we'll never know.

1948_Swell_Robinson · February 8, 2021 6:46AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@1948_Swell_Robinson said:

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c8uVZVbexJo

In the fourth quarter of the 1990 NFC Championship Game, Montana was hit so hard by New York Giants defensive end Leonard Marshall he suffered a bruised sternum, bruised stomach, cracked ribs and a broken hand. There was some initial concern he might not walk again. Montana missed all of the 1991 season and most of the 1992 season, never starting another game for the 49ers.

He should have read the defense better.

Someone a couple inches taller may have seen something over the line a little better and got rid of the pass

Good thing he wasn't being chased by a beast 30 pounds heavier, stronger, and faster.

Also good that the spear tackle - helmet first to back from blind side - was outlawed. Leonard Marshall would now have to hug him around the waist and fall backward.

Possibly. That is why a taller QB is preferable, because he sees more. That is why a stronger arm is preferable because he has more options to execute to avoid situations like that.

That being said, bigger, faster, and stronger still inflicts more damage regardless. It is also much more difficult to make a decision when everything is moving faster. So on the 'toughness' scale it balances out the small rule changes.

stevek · February 8, 2021 6:49AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:
@1948_Swell_Robinson

If Tom Brady played football when Joe Montana did, he’s probably not playing football at 43.

That point seems to be lost on many people. This game is not nearly as brutal as it used to be. Rules were put in place to literally keep Quarterbacks from taking any real hits. Ever. ‘Taking out the quarterback’ was an actual strategy: just keep hitting him - hard, late, blindside, throw him, slam him, fall on top of him.

Every. Single. Play.

How do people not remember any of this?

They don't want to remember, or they simply don't know chit about football.

1951WheatiesPremium · February 8, 2021 6:55AM

Love a spirited and salient debate

craig44 · February 8, 2021 6:55AM

It seems like your main argument for Montana being the GOAT is that he was tougher? That he played in a rougher league?

Look at Unitas. The man took a beating. far worse than Montana ever took. Check out the picture of his hands taken in the late 90's. Football in the 50s was far more brutal than in the 80's.

to go further, football in the 30's was more brutal still. field conditions terrible and leather helmets. no faceguards.

you can make the argument that players played in a "tougher" league, but while true, it is a fallacy in a GOAT argument. while Montana may have been tougher (and i don't necessarily think he was) he was not better. He had advantages too. He played before free agency and was able to play with the same main cogs for most of his career. that is a huge advantage.

LarkinCollector · February 8, 2021 7:01AM

@WingedLiberty1957 said:
and every single team had a shot at drafting him ... he was taken in the 6th round of the draft!

Saw an interesting stat over the weekend. Since TB was drafted, there have only been 65 others drafted with a combination of worse: 40 yd time, vertical, and horizontal jumps. 56 OL & 9 DL players (might have swapped O & D).

1948_Swell_Robinson · February 8, 2021 7:02AM

I watched every game I could in the 80's, and back then the old guys would say the same thing about Montana, saying how it is less physical to be a QB compared to Sammy Baugh.

The 80's are not as 'tough' as you are making them out to be.

Facts are that todays players are bigger faster and stronger. Yes, the O-line is bigger, but when they get past the O-line like they did to Mahomes, that makes that point moot.

Also, every aspect of the game moves faster now, which means QB's now have to make quicker decisions than Montana had to.

Brady is taller, stronger, had a much stronger arm. There is no comparison. Brady has Montana beat. He will simply see more and be able to make more throws. Brady is better.

That alone is not going to make a QB unless you know that QB could also read a defense, make quick decisions, have accuracy, and do it against defenses that are non garbage time stat padders.

Brady has all that as good as anyone too, and probably better.

That is BEFORE we talk about QB winning percentage in regular season, and of course the Super Bowl rings...now with two different teams. Steve Young took over for Montana and they did not miss a beat. Young was garbage in Tampa Bay...and young was already a seasoned professional before he got to Tampa Bay.

Does anyone want to debate who is the GOAT is now? Brady

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