Between ..huge call buying, Spacs, Bitcoin, Short squeezes, hot IPO's etc are the markets too hot and thus close to another asset meltdown? Speculation seems to be the word of the day. Maybe just too many people at home pushing buttons?
Easy money props works until it doesn't.
At some point, they are going to throw a few of these reddit bozos in jail. Conspiring to manipulate the price of securities isn't legal. And the pump and dump has been illegal forever.
I think you are confusing two things. Pump and Dump is you tell all your friends a stock is WAY undervalued and get them to buy in and then you, individually, sell your shares and leave them all hanging.
The folks on reddit are just buying stock and making it all go higher. They aren't being secretive about any of it...
You're drawing an awfully fine, possibly invisible line.
Read the Reddit. They are conspiring to buy the stock to create a short squeeze. A short squeeze, by its nature, pushes up the price of the stock. That is blatant price manipulation.
No it is not blatant price manipulation. jessewvu is correct. The reddit gang is merely buying up the supply of GME stock in the face of very high demand from the short sellers, causing the price of GME to skyrocket. Our ruling courts have stated that the mere intent to affect prices is not enough; rather, it must be shown that the intent was to cause artificial prices—i.e., prices that were understood to be unreflective of the forces of supply and demand.
The shorters want the GME stock (demand), the reddits own them (supply). Supply and demand. Seems that the shorters got caught with their shorts down. Nothing illegal about that.
Except there is no way that company is worth $350 much less the $10,000 per share that they are targeting. You say that intent must be shown to cause artificial prices. How is a nearly bankrupt company worth 5,000x what it was selling for? This is not simply supply and demand.
And go read the reddit. They declared war on the hedgies. Some of them have vowed to lose money themselves as long as it helps bankrupt "the enemy".
While I don't think prosecution is a given, if that isn't technically illegal it certainly should be.
One could argue that there is no way that company is worth $1.98 per share, which is the price on some of the shorts. But that is not the point.
Why not point the finger at the other side. The stock was shorted 140%, while about 50% of the stock is controlled by one entity. Taking contrary positions from, shall we call the shorts ill-advised and short-sighted positions, is not illegal. Why pick sides and accuse those of leveraging long over those leveraging short with misfeasance? Yes, it is supply and demand, within the system we have. If you don't like the answer, change the system.
I haven't exonerated "the other side". But so far only one side has declared that the destruction of the enemy is the goal. And it is only clear to me that the one side has openly colluded.
As for price, I think it is arguable that the company is worth $0 per share which is what the shorts feel. They are the Blockbuster of video games. As video games, like films, increasingly move to streaming, is there a place for a Brick & Mortar that sells largely cartridges which will go the way of Betamax and video game paraphenalia that you can buy online from Amazon or directly from the game manufacturers.
I hope that is hyperbole. I'd guess .0001% of the other side have the goal of destroying the enemy, even if it means losing money. The other 99.9999% are in it to make money.
Read WallStreetBets for a while. Yes, many of them want to make money. But a LOT of the louder voices in the room are doing it to wage war on the establishment.
Any rhetoric about "destroying the enemy" obviously implies "financially". Just because the shorts didn't publicly declare that as their intent (vis-a-vis the longs) before they took massive positions short GME doesn't mean that wasn't what they were trying to do, as well.
I don't see what WSB is doing as any more or less ethical than, say, a hostile takeover. It's predatory capitalism in action. YMMV.
Each individual taking positions against the hedge fund shorts had their own motivation.
In entirety the WSB group did nothing wrong. There seem to be some knowledgeable leaders who exploited a flaw using social media as the key and leveraging their combined assets. I suspect the whole process needs to be reviewed by each fund and the SEC to understand whether there needs to be some tighter limits when borrowing from the box.
I, myself rarely short a stock that's particularly hard to borrow as I have no interest in counting on stock loan to keep me short. I can't afford getting caught in a squeeze since I have another side to a trade which night not stay in line.
With that said, I was short SLV this morning and I am not the least bit worried about the reddit crew cornering the market. The ETF can and will issue more than enough stock to satisfy demand as long as silver bars can be found.
A price in the low $30's is meaningless Above $50 and I'll rethink my positions.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
Folks are confusing 'shorting' a stock, which requires selling the stock in the marketplace and noting in the trade to your B/D, and the regulators, you are shorting it. Lending is not shorting. The stock borrow conduit business where 5 of us move the shares around to the 1 ultimate shorter does not increase the short interest.
Shorting a stock is not illegal. Now do the regulators need to cap the short interest at some %, probably so. But shorting requires 2 main components, 1 - availability to borrow and 2 - an uptick in price. The SEC suspended shorting during the 2009 market crisis, thank God, but there are benefits in the marketplace to shorting.
uptick rule was eliminated years ago...
modified uptick rule on kicks in when a security has fallen 10% in a day...
At some point, they are going to throw a few of these reddit bozos in jail. Conspiring to manipulate the price of securities isn't legal. And the pump and dump has been illegal forever.
I think you are confusing two things. Pump and Dump is you tell all your friends a stock is WAY undervalued and get them to buy in and then you, individually, sell your shares and leave them all hanging.
The folks on reddit are just buying stock and making it all go higher. They aren't being secretive about any of it...
You're drawing an awfully fine, possibly invisible line.
Read the Reddit. They are conspiring to buy the stock to create a short squeeze. A short squeeze, by its nature, pushes up the price of the stock. That is blatant price manipulation.
No it is not blatant price manipulation. jessewvu is correct. The reddit gang is merely buying up the supply of GME stock in the face of very high demand from the short sellers, causing the price of GME to skyrocket. Our ruling courts have stated that the mere intent to affect prices is not enough; rather, it must be shown that the intent was to cause artificial prices—i.e., prices that were understood to be unreflective of the forces of supply and demand.
The shorters want the GME stock (demand), the reddits own them (supply). Supply and demand. Seems that the shorters got caught with their shorts down. Nothing illegal about that.
Except there is no way that company is worth $350 much less the $10,000 per share that they are targeting. You say that intent must be shown to cause artificial prices. How is a nearly bankrupt company worth 5,000x what it was selling for? This is not simply supply and demand.
And go read the reddit. They declared war on the hedgies. Some of them have vowed to lose money themselves as long as it helps bankrupt "the enemy".
While I don't think prosecution is a given, if that isn't technically illegal it certainly should be.
One could argue that there is no way that company is worth $1.98 per share, which is the price on some of the shorts. But that is not the point.
Why not point the finger at the other side. The stock was shorted 140%, while about 50% of the stock is controlled by one entity. Taking contrary positions from, shall we call the shorts ill-advised and short-sighted positions, is not illegal. Why pick sides and accuse those of leveraging long over those leveraging short with misfeasance? Yes, it is supply and demand, within the system we have. If you don't like the answer, change the system.
I haven't exonerated "the other side". But so far only one side has declared that the destruction of the enemy is the goal. And it is only clear to me that the one side has openly colluded.
As for price, I think it is arguable that the company is worth $0 per share which is what the shorts feel. They are the Blockbuster of video games. As video games, like films, increasingly move to streaming, is there a place for a Brick & Mortar that sells largely cartridges which will go the way of Betamax and video game paraphenalia that you can buy online from Amazon or directly from the game manufacturers.
I hope that is hyperbole. I'd guess .0001% of the other side have the goal of destroying the enemy, even if it means losing money. The other 99.9999% are in it to make money.
Read WallStreetBets for a while. Yes, many of them want to make money. But a LOT of the louder voices in the room are doing it to wage war on the establishment.
Any rhetoric about "destroying the enemy" obviously implies "financially". Just because the shorts didn't publicly declare that as their intent (vis-a-vis the longs) before they took massive positions short GME doesn't mean that wasn't what they were trying to do, as well.
I don't see what WSB is doing as any more or less ethical than, say, a hostile takeover. It's predatory capitalism in action. YMMV.
In a hostile takeover, you are trying to pry loose value in a company. You are not trying to create fake value. In its heyday, GME was a $6 or $7 billion company. It is now a $20 billion company due solely to collusion for the sake of price manipulation.
Let's flip it around. Would you support the big banks conspiring to drive your 401k to zero?
And, you wait, I guarantee the sheep on the forum are being led to slaughter by the shepherds. They are using the sheep to push up the price so they can get out leaving the sheep holding the bag. Every drop in GME is followed by people yelling at the other "apes" and "R-words" to buy more to get the price to recover.
The original warriors are in at $3, so it's all gravy. Some of these numbskulls are in at $400 and are leveraged to boot. People have taken cash out of their student loans.
If the Hedgies and the Big Banks were doing exactly what these folks are doing, you folks would (rightfully) be complaining about it. In fact, tell me the story about the price manipulation of silver and gold. If you believe that the Reddit folks are "right" then it is "ok" for big banks to manipulate the price of silver and gold.
@CoinJunkie said:
Any rhetoric about "destroying the enemy" obviously implies "financially". Just because the shorts didn't publicly declare that as their intent (vis-a-vis the longs) before they took massive positions short GME doesn't mean that wasn't what they were trying to do, as well.
I don't see what WSB is doing as any more or less ethical than, say, a hostile takeover. It's predatory capitalism in action. YMMV.
In a hostile takeover, you are trying to pry loose value in a company. You are not trying to create fake value. In its heyday, GME was a $6 or $7 billion company. It is now a $20 billion company due solely to collusion for the sake of price manipulation.
GME stock will eventually be priced at its "fair value". In the process, many people will make (have made) a fortune and others will lose their shirts. Welcome to American capitalism.
Let's flip it around. Would you support the big banks conspiring to drive your 401k to zero?
No, unless I owned a ton of big bank stocks (cymbal crash). Seriously, why would big banks engage in such behavior? Do you think it would be good publicity for them?
And, you wait, I guarantee the sheep on the forum are being led to slaughter by the shepherds. They are using the sheep to push up the price so they can get out leaving the sheep holding the bag. Every drop in GME is followed by people yelling at the other "apes" and "R-words" to buy more to get the price to recover.
The original warriors are in at $3, so it's all gravy. Some of these numbskulls are in at $400 and are leveraged to boot. People have taken cash out of their student loans.
I'm not arguing that a lot of people aren't going to get hurt. Unfortunately, the only way a lot of people learn financial responsibility is through experiencing personal pain. People take cash out of their student loans, credit cards, etc., to finance startup businesses, many/most of which fail. Or they take out cash to purchase luxury items they cannot afford. Should we make that illegal too?
If the Hedgies and the Big Banks were doing exactly what these folks are doing, you folks would (rightfully) be complaining about it. In fact, tell me the story about the price manipulation of silver and gold. If you believe that the Reddit folks are "right" then it is "ok" for big banks to manipulate the price of silver and gold.
Price manipulation happens in many guises in many markets all of the time. You can be angry about any or all of it, but good luck legislating (and enforcing) it out of existence. I'm not saying the Reddit folks are right or wrong in an ethical sense.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
Shorting the 140% can be achievable. Assuming the GME insiders held their stock in margin accounts to borrow its equity up to the hilt to buy other 'profitable' stocks, brokerage firms can then loan 140% of each customer's margin balance. They loan those stocks shorters (hedge funds) pay the most to borrow. GME was on that list.
Brokerage firms allow customers to short as long as they can 'locate' another firm willing to loan the shares. Doesn't mean they can actually borrow, just means a brokerage firm posted shares willing to loan. RobinHood was a big loaner of shares.
@coastaljerseyguy said:
Shorting the 140% can be achievable. Assuming the GME insiders held their stock in margin accounts to borrow its equity up to the hilt to buy other 'profitable' stocks, brokerage firms can then loan 140% of each customer's margin balance. They loan those stocks shorters (hedge funds) pay the most to borrow. GME was on that list.
Brokerage firms allow customers to short as long as they can 'locate' another firm willing to loan the shares. Doesn't mean they can actually borrow, just means a brokerage firm posted shares willing to loan. RobinHood was a big loaner of shares.
My take ... it was an interesting show last night. A lot of bait and chase, back and forth. Made some quick money on futures, but only because the patterns showed. I made mine on the short side.
The hype pushed the prices, and that was good for anyone long Friday night, but it got kind of stupid and there wasn't the kind of real volume that looked to support a massive run in 24hors that would fully hold.
I told myself Friday I was out for a bit. I cheated, but it'll pay for another couple nice coins.
Now I'm out for a bit. Tired and it's all looking fragile. Too many amateur's chasing "easy" money.
Funny to see GME down a C-note, dead even. Feel sorry for the bagholders.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
@pursuitofliberty said:
My take ... it was an interesting show last night. A lot of bait and chase, back and forth. Made some quick money on futures, but only because the patterns showed. I made mine on the short side.
The hype pushed the prices, and that was good for anyone long Friday night, but it got kind of stupid and there wasn't the kind of real volume that looked to support a massive run in 24hors that would fully hold.
I told myself Friday I was out for a bit. I cheated, but it'll pay for another couple nice coins.
Now I'm out for a bit. Tired and it's all looking fragile. Too many amateur's chasing "easy" money.
Funny to see GME down a C-note, dead even. Feel sorry for the bagholders.
They are pumping even harder on the Reddit tonight. Some of those folks don't even know how to cover their position.
Then one sheep started asking about selling at the peak. It hasn't dawned on them yet that they are the only buyers and when they start to sell it'll crash faster than it went up.
@pursuitofliberty said:
My take ... it was an interesting show last night. A lot of bait and chase, back and forth. Made some quick money on futures, but only because the patterns showed. I made mine on the short side.
The hype pushed the prices, and that was good for anyone long Friday night, but it got kind of stupid and there wasn't the kind of real volume that looked to support a massive run in 24hors that would fully hold.
I told myself Friday I was out for a bit. I cheated, but it'll pay for another couple nice coins.
Now I'm out for a bit. Tired and it's all looking fragile. Too many amateur's chasing "easy" money.
Funny to see GME down a C-note, dead even. Feel sorry for the bagholders.
They are pumping even harder on the Reddit tonight. Some of those folks don't even know how to cover their position.
Then one sheep started asking about selling at the peak. It hasn't dawned on them yet that they are the only buyers and when they start to sell it'll crash faster than it went up.
They are trying to short squeeze SIVR, which is net long to begin with, and otherwise quite impossible to do. I fed them some Calls today.
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
When it’s all said and done some will poop their shorts
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Along said:
Why would an insider allow their shares to be loaned out and sold short? Let someone put downward selling pressure their largest source of wealth.
Why would an insider give up their ability to vote their shares?
For an extra 1% return, from securities lending
Broker Dealers pick which margin securities can be pledged. Why would an insider allow their stock to be margined, probably this is where their wealth is concentrated and it allows them to diversify and buy other securities and even get cash withdrawals that they can use in their business. Voting does get transferred to whomever bot from the shorter, but hey, if you own a failing business, do you care that much.
By the way, the B/D gets all the revenue from lending unless the securities are fully paid for (not used in margin) in which case the B/D and customer have some revenue sharing arrangement.
If several million people think they can put the squeeze on the banks by buying paper or stocks they are wrong. It would require buying physical. Above ground ready for sale silver is very scarce relative its price. It could all be snapped up in a few days except it is skittish silver and will go into hiding as premiums go up.
Since little of this metal is actually going into the production of "good" 999 bars it will take time for a shortage to develop at the industrial consumer level caused by metal being diverted to investor demand.
While little silver is available at any given time there are lots of existing stackers who will sell into strength. Weeks and months are required, not hours or days.
I expected the markets to respond to the threat of a silver squeeze because like all markets silver prices are set by psychology. Of course, enough people could accomplish this through buying paper. The problem is the banks' ability to print paper is much greater than their ability to create silver (or anything else).
Lol it’s down more now than it gained yesterday. Typical silver market. Can’t ever have sustained upward movement. Seems like we will be waiting a while for 50
@jclovescoins said:
Lol it’s down more now than it gained yesterday. Typical silver market. Can’t ever have sustained upward movement. Seems like we will be waiting a while for 50
I'd love to know how much money those Reddit Insurrectionists have lost.
@jclovescoins said:
Lol it’s down more now than it gained yesterday. Typical silver market. Can’t ever have sustained upward movement. Seems like we will be waiting a while for 50
I'd love to know how much money those Reddit Insurrectionists have lost.
Well, if they tried the same thing with SLV that they did with GME, then they are not very smart and will lose their shirts. They have a fundamental lack of understanding of how the SLV trust is different. It is not a typical ETF and is immune to a short squeeze.
I hope a bunch of those guys made a ton of money on GME and got out over the last few days. Anyone holding on to it does not like money.
@jclovescoins said:
Lol it’s down more now than it gained yesterday. Typical silver market. Can’t ever have sustained upward movement. Seems like we will be waiting a while for 50
I'd love to know how much money those Reddit Insurrectionists have lost.
Well, if they tried the same thing with SLV that they did with GME, then they are not very smart and will lose their shirts. They have a fundamental lack of understanding of how the SLV trust is different. It is not a typical ETF and is immune to a short squeeze.
I hope a bunch of those guys made a ton of money on GME and got out over the last few days. Anyone holding on to it does not like money.
I'm really not convinced that they were the ones behind the silver move. They like digital trading and there was a rush on physical silver.
The biggest problem with silver is that the market is so much bigger than GME. When they started in earnest, GME had a market cap of about $2-$3 billion which they pushed up to $25 billion. The silver market is 1000x bigger than that.
I also don't believe the tin foil hats that say there are all these shorts out there in metals. Producers and holders will buy shorts to hedge. I don't think there is a massive volume of naked shorts which was the squeeze play on GME.
One guy, who sort of started it was accumulating GME shares at $2-$4 [his WSB name is unprintable in a polite forum]. At one point, he was up $43 million. I think his profit numbers really helped fuel the surge because he had made huge money by the time GME was at $20 which is when the morons started jumping in...and kept jumping in. Some of them have a cost bases of close to $300 per share.
They keep posting the chart for the short squeeze in VW from a decade ago. In that squeeze, there was a rise, a dip, and then a very short giant spike. So, as they dip, they keep telling the morons that this is just like VW and this dip presages a massive spike. None of them still can figure out that it is nearly impossible for any of them to exit during such a spike, even if it happened.
GME daily volume has been running close to the entire float for the last week or so! Insane as well as insanely interesting.
@jclovescoins said:
Lol it’s down more now than it gained yesterday. Typical silver market. Can’t ever have sustained upward movement. Seems like we will be waiting a while for 50
I'd love to know how much money those Reddit Insurrectionists have lost.
Well, if they tried the same thing with SLV that they did with GME, then they are not very smart and will lose their shirts. They have a fundamental lack of understanding of how the SLV trust is different. It is not a typical ETF and is immune to a short squeeze.
I hope a bunch of those guys made a ton of money on GME and got out over the last few days. Anyone holding on to it does not like money.
I'm really not convinced that they were the ones behind the silver move. They like digital trading and there was a rush on physical silver.
...
I agree. I think the mere belief that WSB was targeting silver was enough to get other folks to try to get in on the action causing a brief spike. But I don't think the redditors themselves were doing much with silver.
The "common guys" are in essence trying to do now what the rich folks have been doing forever - - manipulate the markets in their favor at the expense of the "other side" to get what's theirs & maybe inflict some pain. Problem is they're virtual neophytes at a game the rich are well-versed in & who have monetary/loan/lines-of-credit connections/options to ease short-term pains until the next opportunity arises for making obscene profits - - whereas most of the newbies don't. Nor do their supporters who are jumping on for the cause or the ride. In the end, unfortunately, it is those newbies who will get hurt the most, along with "collateral damage" to those not even involved directly, but whose retirement $ gets whipsawed in various funds they never even suspected held big enough positions in silver. Many here on the Forum are intelligent enough to either avoid this play or to get in/out safely. But the general public will likely end up hurt the most..........
For me, it just makes buying silver coins to fill holes potentially just a bit tougher, but prices on the dates I'm still looking for are no longer near spot, so I doubt it will impact me directly for the duration. But it might further deter me short term from looking to buy any "melt" coins to look thru or stack..........
The biggest problem with silver is that the market is so much bigger than GME. When they started in earnest, GME had a market cap of about $2-$3 billion which they pushed up to $25 billion. The silver market is 1000x bigger than that.
This isn't really true. The physical silver market is effectively smaller than GME. There is only some 40 million ounces on the physical market at any given time and this could be purchased for a mere one and a quarter billion dollars, Of course this would drive the price higher so more would flood onto the market but even this amount can be acquired over time. More importantly though is that snapping up the physical silver would likely lead to a buying panic very quickly. There would be selling into a buying panic but the nature of "panics" is that people want to buy rather than sell.
You need as much money as the banks to squeeze the shorts but even poor people have enough money to expose the fact that there is very little silver because the actions of the big banks have caused it to be wasted just like everything else. Holding the price down has ensured there's no conservation.
The biggest problem with silver is that the market is so much bigger than GME. When they started in earnest, GME had a market cap of about $2-$3 billion which they pushed up to $25 billion. The silver market is 1000x bigger than that.
This isn't really true. The physical silver market is effectively smaller than GME. There is only some 40 million ounces on the physical market at any given time and this could be purchased for a mere one and a quarter billion dollars, Of course this would drive the price higher so more would flood onto the market but even this amount can be acquired over time. More importantly though is that snapping up the physical silver would likely lead to a buying panic very quickly. There would be selling into a buying panic but the nature of "panics" is that people want to buy rather than sell.
You need as much money as the banks to squeeze the shorts but even poor people have enough money to expose the fact that there is very little silver because the actions of the big banks have caused it to be wasted just like everything else. Holding the price down has ensured there's no conservation.
They aren't buying physical silver, if it were them. Their strategy was SLV and SLV Calls.
@Panda4456 said:
Great time to buy now. Prices came down a little!
Maybe. But for all any of us know, it could be a great time to sell.
I completely agree. We all have our theories but, well, you know. It’s fun to speculate and take the best stab we can. I’m on board and have been for many years. I’m in it for the long haul. That way I feel better about it.
The main thing is is to have fun😊
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
@jclovescoins said:
Lol it’s down more now than it gained yesterday. Typical silver market. Can’t ever have sustained upward movement. Seems like we will be waiting a while for 50
I'd love to know how much money those Reddit Insurrectionists have lost.
Well, if they tried the same thing with SLV that they did with GME, then they are not very smart and will lose their shirts. They have a fundamental lack of understanding of how the SLV trust is different. It is not a typical ETF and is immune to a short squeeze.
I hope a bunch of those guys made a ton of money on GME and got out over the last few days. Anyone holding on to it does not like money.
the squeeze is not on SLV but the silver market. They are using the ETF to purchase physical. If there is a short squeeze it will come when the March futures expire. The physical holdings of SLV have doubled during the last month. You can say the futures market is HUGE, but it is mostly paper moving the price around.
It is said that a lot of silver in the system has multiple owners.
Like reserve banking where most of your money is loaned out so is a lot of the silver. Even silver that is stored with an annual dusting fee may not really exist.
Blackrock does not instill confidence in me.
Banks have gone under and have taken depositors' silver with them.
@MsMorrisine said:
looking at SLV today, they need to try harder.
If you read the Reddit, they aren't really trying at all. 99% of the posts there have nothing to do with SLV. There are actually more people mad that the media accused them of going after SLV than are actually going after SLV.
It is said that a lot of silver in the system has multiple owners.
Like reserve banking where most of your money is loaned out so is a lot of the silver. Even silver that is stored with an annual dusting fee may not really exist.
Blackrock does not instill confidence in me.
Banks have gone under and have taken depositors' silver with them.
Which is why it is a mistake to go after the market with SLV. You aren't guaranteed payment if they take out the actual owner, JP Morgan. [Unless they loaned it all out.]
@jclovescoins said:
Lol it’s down more now than it gained yesterday. Typical silver market. Can’t ever have sustained upward movement. Seems like we will be waiting a while for 50
I'd love to know how much money those Reddit Insurrectionists have lost.
Ask @Derbyb and the Bulgarians? Merry Groundhog Day!. 6 more years....errrrr....weeks of winter.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
@davewesen said:
I can't disagree with that cladking, as the 'custodian' is JP Morgan -
but there are not many small time investors that can take delivery of 5000 ounces
I'm sure you're right but if they acquire physical then the "reserve banking" on silver will fail. There is so little silver in the world but it seems like more because of all the paper. Of course silver is "common" but much of it simply isn't going to be sold at any foreseeable price. Much of it is mislaid or tied up. As long as silver is being diverted from the stream that runs from the producers to the industrial users we will reach a point that the scarcity becomes apparent. Since we are always borrowing from the future this point will come eventually anyway and the sooner the better because there will be less silver destroyed by the bankers.
I didn't realize that JP Morgan had any interest in this. Is 677 million part of the billion ounces that Ted Butler claims is owned by JPM?
I thought it entirely funny (even the I missed a large profit in the insanity) that I closed my long positions last Friday for healthy gains, and as of about 30 minutes ago, the price was exactly the same, to the penny.
And yes I am still out, both sides, as I stated last night. I'll take a shot again later.
Interesting reading in here ... both the seeming ridiculousness of some comments, and the grounded perspective of others.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Comments
Between ..huge call buying, Spacs, Bitcoin, Short squeezes, hot IPO's etc are the markets too hot and thus close to another asset meltdown? Speculation seems to be the word of the day. Maybe just too many people at home pushing buttons?
Easy money props works until it doesn't.
Any rhetoric about "destroying the enemy" obviously implies "financially". Just because the shorts didn't publicly declare that as their intent (vis-a-vis the longs) before they took massive positions short GME doesn't mean that wasn't what they were trying to do, as well.
I don't see what WSB is doing as any more or less ethical than, say, a hostile takeover. It's predatory capitalism in action. YMMV.
Each individual taking positions against the hedge fund shorts had their own motivation.
In entirety the WSB group did nothing wrong. There seem to be some knowledgeable leaders who exploited a flaw using social media as the key and leveraging their combined assets. I suspect the whole process needs to be reviewed by each fund and the SEC to understand whether there needs to be some tighter limits when borrowing from the box.
I, myself rarely short a stock that's particularly hard to borrow as I have no interest in counting on stock loan to keep me short. I can't afford getting caught in a squeeze since I have another side to a trade which night not stay in line.
With that said, I was short SLV this morning and I am not the least bit worried about the reddit crew cornering the market. The ETF can and will issue more than enough stock to satisfy demand as long as silver bars can be found.
A price in the low $30's is meaningless Above $50 and I'll rethink my positions.
uptick rule was eliminated years ago...
modified uptick rule on kicks in when a security has fallen 10% in a day...
In a hostile takeover, you are trying to pry loose value in a company. You are not trying to create fake value. In its heyday, GME was a $6 or $7 billion company. It is now a $20 billion company due solely to collusion for the sake of price manipulation.
Let's flip it around. Would you support the big banks conspiring to drive your 401k to zero?
And, you wait, I guarantee the sheep on the forum are being led to slaughter by the shepherds. They are using the sheep to push up the price so they can get out leaving the sheep holding the bag. Every drop in GME is followed by people yelling at the other "apes" and "R-words" to buy more to get the price to recover.
The original warriors are in at $3, so it's all gravy. Some of these numbskulls are in at $400 and are leveraged to boot. People have taken cash out of their student loans.
If the Hedgies and the Big Banks were doing exactly what these folks are doing, you folks would (rightfully) be complaining about it. In fact, tell me the story about the price manipulation of silver and gold. If you believe that the Reddit folks are "right" then it is "ok" for big banks to manipulate the price of silver and gold.
Interesting perspective.
https://www.kitco.com/news/2021-02-01/The-run-on-silver-won-t-squeeze-bullion-banks-Natixis.html
GME stock will eventually be priced at its "fair value". In the process, many people will make (have made) a fortune and others will lose their shirts. Welcome to American capitalism.
No, unless I owned a ton of big bank stocks (cymbal crash). Seriously, why would big banks engage in such behavior? Do you think it would be good publicity for them?
I'm not arguing that a lot of people aren't going to get hurt. Unfortunately, the only way a lot of people learn financial responsibility is through experiencing personal pain. People take cash out of their student loans, credit cards, etc., to finance startup businesses, many/most of which fail. Or they take out cash to purchase luxury items they cannot afford. Should we make that illegal too?
Price manipulation happens in many guises in many markets all of the time. You can be angry about any or all of it, but good luck legislating (and enforcing) it out of existence. I'm not saying the Reddit folks are right or wrong in an ethical sense.
So much miss information in this post
Why would an insider allow their shares to be loaned out and sold short? Let someone put downward selling pressure their largest source of wealth.
Why would an insider give up their ability to vote their shares?
For an extra 1% return, from securities lending
I dated Miss Information.
My take ... it was an interesting show last night. A lot of bait and chase, back and forth. Made some quick money on futures, but only because the patterns showed. I made mine on the short side.
The hype pushed the prices, and that was good for anyone long Friday night, but it got kind of stupid and there wasn't the kind of real volume that looked to support a massive run in 24hors that would fully hold.
I told myself Friday I was out for a bit. I cheated, but it'll pay for another couple nice coins.
Now I'm out for a bit. Tired and it's all looking fragile. Too many amateur's chasing "easy" money.
Funny to see GME down a C-note, dead even. Feel sorry for the bagholders.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
They are pumping even harder on the Reddit tonight. Some of those folks don't even know how to cover their position.
Then one sheep started asking about selling at the peak. It hasn't dawned on them yet that they are the only buyers and when they start to sell it'll crash faster than it went up.
They are trying to short squeeze SIVR, which is net long to begin with, and otherwise quite impossible to do. I fed them some Calls today.
When it’s all said and done some will poop their shorts
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I hope for their sakes it's only a short squeeze.
I disagree. Some won’t be able to do that, as they will have already lost their shorts.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Broker Dealers pick which margin securities can be pledged. Why would an insider allow their stock to be margined, probably this is where their wealth is concentrated and it allows them to diversify and buy other securities and even get cash withdrawals that they can use in their business. Voting does get transferred to whomever bot from the shorter, but hey, if you own a failing business, do you care that much.
By the way, the B/D gets all the revenue from lending unless the securities are fully paid for (not used in margin) in which case the B/D and customer have some revenue sharing arrangement.
If several million people think they can put the squeeze on the banks by buying paper or stocks they are wrong. It would require buying physical. Above ground ready for sale silver is very scarce relative its price. It could all be snapped up in a few days except it is skittish silver and will go into hiding as premiums go up.
Since little of this metal is actually going into the production of "good" 999 bars it will take time for a shortage to develop at the industrial consumer level caused by metal being diverted to investor demand.
While little silver is available at any given time there are lots of existing stackers who will sell into strength. Weeks and months are required, not hours or days.
I expected the markets to respond to the threat of a silver squeeze because like all markets silver prices are set by psychology. Of course, enough people could accomplish this through buying paper. The problem is the banks' ability to print paper is much greater than their ability to create silver (or anything else).
Lol it’s down more now than it gained yesterday. Typical silver market. Can’t ever have sustained upward movement. Seems like we will be waiting a while for 50
I'd love to know how much money those Reddit Insurrectionists have lost.
Well, if they tried the same thing with SLV that they did with GME, then they are not very smart and will lose their shirts. They have a fundamental lack of understanding of how the SLV trust is different. It is not a typical ETF and is immune to a short squeeze.
I hope a bunch of those guys made a ton of money on GME and got out over the last few days. Anyone holding on to it does not like money.
I hope no one here purchased $41 ASE’s...
I'm really not convinced that they were the ones behind the silver move. They like digital trading and there was a rush on physical silver.
The biggest problem with silver is that the market is so much bigger than GME. When they started in earnest, GME had a market cap of about $2-$3 billion which they pushed up to $25 billion. The silver market is 1000x bigger than that.
I also don't believe the tin foil hats that say there are all these shorts out there in metals. Producers and holders will buy shorts to hedge. I don't think there is a massive volume of naked shorts which was the squeeze play on GME.
One guy, who sort of started it was accumulating GME shares at $2-$4 [his WSB name is unprintable in a polite forum]. At one point, he was up $43 million. I think his profit numbers really helped fuel the surge because he had made huge money by the time GME was at $20 which is when the morons started jumping in...and kept jumping in. Some of them have a cost bases of close to $300 per share.
They keep posting the chart for the short squeeze in VW from a decade ago. In that squeeze, there was a rise, a dip, and then a very short giant spike. So, as they dip, they keep telling the morons that this is just like VW and this dip presages a massive spike. None of them still can figure out that it is nearly impossible for any of them to exit during such a spike, even if it happened.
GME daily volume has been running close to the entire float for the last week or so! Insane as well as insanely interesting.
I agree. I think the mere belief that WSB was targeting silver was enough to get other folks to try to get in on the action causing a brief spike. But I don't think the redditors themselves were doing much with silver.
The "common guys" are in essence trying to do now what the rich folks have been doing forever - - manipulate the markets in their favor at the expense of the "other side" to get what's theirs & maybe inflict some pain. Problem is they're virtual neophytes at a game the rich are well-versed in & who have monetary/loan/lines-of-credit connections/options to ease short-term pains until the next opportunity arises for making obscene profits - - whereas most of the newbies don't. Nor do their supporters who are jumping on for the cause or the ride. In the end, unfortunately, it is those newbies who will get hurt the most, along with "collateral damage" to those not even involved directly, but whose retirement $ gets whipsawed in various funds they never even suspected held big enough positions in silver. Many here on the Forum are intelligent enough to either avoid this play or to get in/out safely. But the general public will likely end up hurt the most..........
For me, it just makes buying silver coins to fill holes potentially just a bit tougher, but prices on the dates I'm still looking for are no longer near spot, so I doubt it will impact me directly for the duration. But it might further deter me short term from looking to buy any "melt" coins to look thru or stack..........
I sold all of mine at $40 yesterday
Latin American Collection
Oh well. It was fun for a day😂
Children should not play with PM’s.
This isn't really true. The physical silver market is effectively smaller than GME. There is only some 40 million ounces on the physical market at any given time and this could be purchased for a mere one and a quarter billion dollars, Of course this would drive the price higher so more would flood onto the market but even this amount can be acquired over time. More importantly though is that snapping up the physical silver would likely lead to a buying panic very quickly. There would be selling into a buying panic but the nature of "panics" is that people want to buy rather than sell.
You need as much money as the banks to squeeze the shorts but even poor people have enough money to expose the fact that there is very little silver because the actions of the big banks have caused it to be wasted just like everything else. Holding the price down has ensured there's no conservation.
They aren't buying physical silver, if it were them. Their strategy was SLV and SLV Calls.
Ammunition... That is where the market is heading.
Great time to buy now. Prices came down a little!
Maybe. But for all any of us know, it could be a great time to sell.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The whole thing is basically playing roulette IMHO
I completely agree. We all have our theories but, well, you know. It’s fun to speculate and take the best stab we can. I’m on board and have been for many years. I’m in it for the long haul. That way I feel better about it.
The main thing is is to have fun😊
So, I guess I’ll never know what it’s like to drive a Ferrari.
Not sure this belongs but it seems to fit somewhere in this post? Perhaps a day late and a dollar short?
"He who sells what isn't his'n, must buy it back or go to pris'n."
the squeeze is not on SLV but the silver market. They are using the ETF to purchase physical. If there is a short squeeze it will come when the March futures expire. The physical holdings of SLV have doubled during the last month. You can say the futures market is HUGE, but it is mostly paper moving the price around.
looking at SLV today, they need to try harder.
we can watch if silver pile keeps growing
Ounces in Trust
as of Feb 02, 2021
677,347,137.80
https://blackrock.com/us/individual/products/239855/ishares-silver-trust-fund
.80 ?
really?
It is said that a lot of silver in the system has multiple owners.
Like reserve banking where most of your money is loaned out so is a lot of the silver. Even silver that is stored with an annual dusting fee may not really exist.
Blackrock does not instill confidence in me.
Banks have gone under and have taken depositors' silver with them.
I can't disagree with that cladking, as the 'custodian' is JP Morgan -
but there are not many small time investors that can take delivery of 5000 ounces
If you read the Reddit, they aren't really trying at all. 99% of the posts there have nothing to do with SLV. There are actually more people mad that the media accused them of going after SLV than are actually going after SLV.
Which is why it is a mistake to go after the market with SLV. You aren't guaranteed payment if they take out the actual owner, JP Morgan. [Unless they loaned it all out.]
Ask @Derbyb and the Bulgarians? Merry Groundhog Day!. 6 more years....errrrr....weeks of winter.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
I'm sure you're right but if they acquire physical then the "reserve banking" on silver will fail. There is so little silver in the world but it seems like more because of all the paper. Of course silver is "common" but much of it simply isn't going to be sold at any foreseeable price. Much of it is mislaid or tied up. As long as silver is being diverted from the stream that runs from the producers to the industrial users we will reach a point that the scarcity becomes apparent. Since we are always borrowing from the future this point will come eventually anyway and the sooner the better because there will be less silver destroyed by the bankers.
I didn't realize that JP Morgan had any interest in this. Is 677 million part of the billion ounces that Ted Butler claims is owned by JPM?
I thought it entirely funny (even the I missed a large profit in the insanity) that I closed my long positions last Friday for healthy gains, and as of about 30 minutes ago, the price was exactly the same, to the penny.
And yes I am still out, both sides, as I stated last night. I'll take a shot again later.
Interesting reading in here ... both the seeming ridiculousness of some comments, and the grounded perspective of others.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242