GOLD AND SILVER, ECONOMIC NEWS 2019

derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 30, 2019 8:47AM in Precious Metals

this will be the year we all (well most of us) learn that the collateral for mountains of national and corporate debt was a false belief by the borrowers, and even more so by the lenders, that future growth would continue to be there to service it.

Didn't both parties make that same mistake with housing prices a few years back? Hope the results this time aren't as severe. LOL

Got silver?

All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

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Comments

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,591 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You forgot the next part, where the corrupt agencies then try to pin** private liabilities** onto the backs of taxpayers for the benefit of an influential insider, exactly what is happening with the insolvent Sears pension fund.

    We haven't even got to the insolvency issues of places like California, Illinois and New York. Maybe Michael Bloomberg should volunteer to bail them out.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2019 11:25AM

    Fortunately, for the taxpayer, pension fund bailouts are conducted by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. using premiums paid by the pension fund members. Question that remains is "how long before PGGC funds are depleted and the taxpayer starts footing the bill?" This will be dependent on how many more PBGC fund members end up in bankruptcy or, in the case of Sears, get caught up in a transfer of ownership that does not include a transfer of the pension fund.

    I suspect history might show the Sears exec/shareholder who is buying out Sears facilitated its downfall with the intent of scooping it up minus the liability of the pension fund.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • rickoricko Posts: 67,203 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ah the economic house of cards.... still adding more floors. I think I will go look at my stacks... :D Cheers, RickO

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From your mouth to Gods ears, derryb. Whoohoo!!!!


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Like I said in the OP, "most of us." LOL

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019 10:46AM

    The Interest Rate Hawks Surrender

    "If the stock market declines while the Fed is still stimulating, as I expect it will, investors around the world may finally realize that the United States may have become a monetary Roach Motel, where monetary stimulus checks in but it can never check out. The economic house of cards that has supported us for a decade will finally be laid bare, and investors may recognize that interest rates will never return to normal and that the size of the Fed’s balance sheet will rise in perpetuity."

    The future of any market, including currency, hinges on confidence.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,591 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Forbidden
    You don't have permission to access /economiccommentary/the-hawks-surrender/:// on this server.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019 10:48AM

    @jmski52 said:
    Forbidden
    You don't have permission to access /economiccommentary/the-hawks-surrender/:// on this server.

    Linky Fixed

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @jmski52 said:
    Forbidden
    You don't have permission to access /economiccommentary/the-hawks-surrender/:// on this server.

    Linky Fixed

    You should have linked it directly from Schiff.


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @jmski52 said:
    Forbidden
    You don't have permission to access /economiccommentary/the-hawks-surrender/:// on this server.

    Linky Fixed

    You should have linked it directly from Schiff.

    tried to but that one didn't work so I changed it.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭✭

    Federal Government employees in soup kitchens and food pantries is amazing. These are not all contractors or part-timers either. Some of these people have 6 figure incomes and run our country.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 22,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019 7:24PM
  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,244 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We're eating the seed corn in so many ways.

    Historically, the American public has been much more patriotically docile and willing to defer to the common good, as opposed to, say, the French. This in part has it roots in trust that the government was ultimately trustworthy and answerable to them. The longer they suffer while the prez and the Congress play political chicken with one another, the more likely it is that this deference will erode, and TRS and FBI people will start to routinely walk off the job.




    "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are true"--Abe Lincoln



    Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...



  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    public confidence is highly under rated. Especially its impact on markets.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All a product of OUR votes. It aint gonna change until WE change.


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2019 9:23PM

    Also a product of living beyond (or too close to) one's means.

    Maybe the shutdown is just an exercise using a small sample to measure the impact of a coming bad recession.

    One thing for sure, the shutdown is showing just how fragile personal finances are for people that have decent income. Maybe personal debt has something to do with it.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2019 7:04AM

    Let me get this straight. Government workers who are making twice what a comparable private sector job pays, are living above their means in nice housing, in nice neighborhoods and haven't saved enough to weather a disruption in their incomes? Why not?

    I found this rather interesting as well -

    the nation’s four biggest banks — Bank of America, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase and Wells Fargo — don’t offer personal loans at all, meaning workers who keep their accounts there would need to look elsewhere.

    Here we have banks who were bailed out of their own bad decisions by the taxpayers, who won't even arrange loans for their own depositors.

    I hardly know what to think, except that there is too much Big Government in the first place and that the Federal Reserve Banking "System" needs to be gone, like yesterday.

    In both cases, the free market needs to be freed and the bailouts need to stop. There was a reason that the Founders set up a balance of power in government. They knew human nature and they had studied the history of governance.

    Franklin did have something to say about the time when the people could vote themselves more free stuff. I don't remember his exact thoughts about the outcome, but it wasn't good. We are there.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:

    Here we have banks who were bailed out of their own bad decisions by the taxpayers, who won't even arrange loans for their own depositors.

    They'll give you a loan but it has to be with their high interest credit cards.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    I found this rather interesting as well -

    the nation’s four biggest banks — Bank of America, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase and Wells Fargo — don’t offer personal loans at all, meaning workers who keep their accounts there would need to look elsewhere.

    That is completely false. Just google the banks name and personal loan.

    Where did you get that incorrect info?


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2019 10:46AM

    @derryb said:

    @jmski52 said:

    Here we have banks who were bailed out of their own bad decisions by the taxpayers, who won't even arrange loans for their own depositors.

    They'll give you a loan but it has to be with their high interest credit cards.

    Maybe Wilber Ross should give them loans.


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @jmski52 said:

    Here we have banks who were bailed out of their own bad decisions by the taxpayers, who won't even arrange loans for their own depositors.

    They'll give you a loan but it has to be with their high interest credit cards.

    Maybe Wilber Ross should give them loans.

    Take the loans then immediately file bankruptcy. Then they can be just like.....well nevermind lol

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 22,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2019 11:36AM

    @cohodk said:

    @jmski52 said:
    I found this rather interesting as well -

    the nation’s four biggest banks — Bank of America, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase and Wells Fargo — don’t offer personal loans at all, meaning workers who keep their accounts there would need to look elsewhere.

    That is completely false. Just google the banks name and personal loan.

    Where did you get that incorrect info?

    New York times article

    neither of you come back until you've been to a bank's web site and found or not found personal loans info. if you can't find personal loan info call their 800 and ask.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • maplemanmapleman Posts: 717 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A good/important read. I don't completely agree but the premise is IMHO sound. Thanks for posting

    @derryb said:

    @jmski52 said:
    Forbidden
    You don't have permission to access /economiccommentary/the-hawks-surrender/:// on this server.

    Linky Fixed

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2019 11:30AM

    Where did you get that incorrect info?

    New York times article

    lol, you didn't expect him to actually read the article, did you?

    Then again, you never know what's fake news, especially if NYT is the source.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Peter Schiff right on target. . . again

    ". . . it doesn't really matter. The bubble is pricked. The air is coming out no matter what the Fed does now. And he's been saying all along that the Fed won't be able to stop with ending its tightening program. That's just a stop on the way back to zero percent interest rates and another round of QE."

    Got silver?

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 15,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Gold Is Going To $1,500, Says Jim Cramer"

    Time to sell? ;)

    https://www.kitco.com/news/2019-01-30/Gold-Is-Going-To-1-500-Says-Jim-Cramer.html

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 22,895 ✭✭✭✭✭

    sell!

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019 4:31PM

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 15,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    .> @derryb said:

    Then why isn't the price of gold reflected in this "buying spree?"

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 20,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OPA said:
    .> @derryb said:

    Then why isn't the price of gold reflected in this "buying spree?"

    It is. Central bank buying keeps prices from falling further

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OPA said:
    .> @derryb said:

    Then why isn't the price of gold reflected in this "buying spree?"

    Because they don't buy it from APMEX or the CRIMEX.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 15,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @OPA said:
    .> @derryb said:

    Then why isn't the price of gold reflected in this "buying spree?"

    Because they don't buy it from APMEX or the CRIMEX.

    Well, if that's the case, why bother posting this non matter on a PM forum.

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:

    @OPA said:
    .> @derryb said:

    Then why isn't the price of gold reflected in this "buying spree?"

    It is. Central bank buying keeps prices from falling further

    Its so funny cuz its true. Haha


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • derrybderryb Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2019 5:42PM

    @OPA said:

    @derryb said:

    @OPA said:
    .> @derryb said:

    Then why isn't the price of gold reflected in this "buying spree?"

    Because they don't buy it from APMEX or the CRIMEX.

    Well, if that's the case, why bother posting this non matter on a PM forum.

    To show that even the big boys see the protection and liquidity of such an ancient relic.

    While they will not share where they buy their gold, many of them disclose why they buy and hold gold.

    All debt-based consumption steals from the future to gratify the present. It is tomorrow’s consumption pulled forward. It signs a perpetual check against an overdrawn future.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 20,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Sky Brothers dig it!

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 22,895 ✭✭✭✭✭

    sell!> @derryb said:

    @OPA said:
    .> @derryb said:

    Then why isn't the price of gold reflected in this "buying spree?"

    Because they don't buy it from APMEX or the CRIMEX.

    If I were a huge amount buyer, I'd arrange a private spot price transaction or transactions with a big holder or seller. A big seller might be a mining operation with transaction on an "when produced" basis.

    who wants a spike in prices caused by an open market purchase or purchases?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2019 5:31AM

    Then why isn't the price of gold reflected in this "buying spree?"

    It is, and it isn't. It's part of the demand side, whether or not it's a public transaction or done in secret.

    if that's the case, why bother posting this non matter on a PM forum.

    It's instructive to note that the central bankers disparage gold in referring to it as a "commodity", while (as derryb's link clearly shows) that their own holdings list it as a reserve asset and a core "safe haven" asset held for crisis management situations.

    Why do they disparage gold holdings for private individuals while listing it as a core safe haven asset for themselves - when it's an obvious choice as a prime store of value and a hedge against fiscal & monetary mismanagement? It that doesn't raise your BS antennae, then what would?

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why do they disparage gold holdings for private individuals

    From where do you derive this nonsense? Doesnt just about every country produce gold coins for its citizens to collect?


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 36,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    Why do they disparage gold holdings for private individuals

    From where do you derive this nonsense? Doesnt just about every country produce gold coins for its citizens to collect?

    I think he was referring to those that sell non-hard assets such as dollars, stocks and bonds.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 20,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    Doesnt just about every country produce gold coins for its citizens to collect?

    Yes, "They" attempt to sell us gold and silver too. Every other commercial in the morning (besides My Pillow and New Day VA 100% home loan) is for gold and silver. They sure want people to buy into it.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @cohodk said:
    Why do they disparage gold holdings for private individuals

    From where do you derive this nonsense? Doesnt just about every country produce gold coins for its citizens to collect?

    I think he was referring to those that sell non-hard assets such as dollars, stocks and bonds.

    He specifically stated "central bankers", which i should have fully quoted.


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:

    @cohodk said:
    Doesnt just about every country produce gold coins for its citizens to collect?

    Yes, "They" attempt to sell us gold and silver too. Every other commercial in the morning (besides My Pillow and New Day VA 100% home loan) is for gold and silver. They sure want people to buy into it.

    Interesting also that there are more commercials trying to sell you gold on one national news channel than on another. Why does that channel have more folk trying to sell you their gold than the other?


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • OPAOPA Posts: 15,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @Baley said:

    @cohodk said:
    Doesnt just about every country produce gold coins for its citizens to collect?

    Yes, "They" attempt to sell us gold and silver too. Every other commercial in the morning (besides My Pillow and New Day VA 100% home loan) is for gold and silver. They sure want people to buy into it.

    Interesting also that there are more commercials trying to sell you gold on one national news channel than on another. Why does that channel have more folk trying to sell you their gold than the other?

    A) Cheaper Air time
    B) Majority stock holders are bullion dealers
    C) None of the above

    You pick your choice

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2019 12:46PM

    It's not the Fed selling gold coins to the public, is it? No, it's the Treasury. So that you do not forget, let me remind you that the Fed is a monopolistic private banking cartel and is not part of the government. The Fed is simply a well-connected middleman that lives off the government's mismanagement of money.

    In congressional testimony when Ron Paul asked Bernanke if gold was money, and the response was "no, it's a commodity, a precious metal, an asset" and that the reason that central banks hold gold instead of diamonds is because of "tradition". That's mealy-mouthed doublespeak if I ever heard it.

    If gold isn't money, then the neither the government nor the central banks have any business owning it, nor do they have any business owning stocks, real estate or any other non-monetary asset. You can thank Graham, Leach & Bliley for the comingling of commercial lending and real estate finance - the mother of all derivative fiascos.

    Which brings us to the disparagement issue. It's widely recognized that the price of gold serves as a contrarian indicator for the dollar. If gold moves up too fast, the dollar and most importantly - bonds are affected negatively. A spiking gold price draws attention to the trainwreck of government finance and therefore it has to be suppressed or the government bond market will fail and the Fed will lose it's symbiotic host.

    Why does the Fed have a commodity trading desk? GATA has proven beyond a doubt that the price of gold is manipulated through naked shorting that would land you or I in jail. No metal is removed from any inventories and shipped somewhere else when this takes place because the settlement is on paper and there is no transparency or accountability since any trading shortfalls can be keystroked and deep-sixed in a fake budget ledger, ala' Enron.

    The price manipulation is designed specifically to drive investors away from the market. Usually the monkey hammering of the gold market happens on thin volume at odd hours and it doesn't reflect how normal buying & selling takes place. Debate it all you want, it happens.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 20,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not worried personally about what to Label the gold, whether "money" or safe haven or asset or whatever, the semantics aside, my question is, how will it perform in my portfolio vs the other components? My position reflects my outlook, which is lukewarm at best. I'd love it if the permabulls were right just once more in a generation before I die so i can sell it for market beating profits and wave goodbye to it forever.

    And that goes double for platinum and triple for bulky silver.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,591 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Based on what you say, if you are really using a portfolio rebalancing strategy, you should be buying precious metals with some of the profits from your high-flying stocks, right? Or, do I have it all wrong?

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 20,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, still buying a little bullion, and bought a Fugio cent a couple months ago, and have a want list but those coins and kinds of bars are hard to find. I do not buy any items younger than myself anymore.

    Putting stock profits and free time mostly into real estate and a small business venture, but will get active selling PMs if you guys are right and it makes a new high before i croak.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 15,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If gold moves up too fast.....
    bonds are affected negatively

    Can you please explain how you think this happens?

    If gold isn't money, then the neither the government nor the central banks have any business owning it, nor do they have any business owning stocks, real estate or any other non-monetary asset

    So the govt shouldn't own any national parks, fish hatcheries, shipping ports, aircraft carriers, rocket building and launching sites, natural or man-made antiquities, etc? Why should a govt only own "money"?

    The price manipulation is designed specifically to drive investors away from the market

    Good thing those that see manipulation so clearly dive headlong into it!!! Lol


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant
    Knowledge is the enemy of fear
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 19,591 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Putting stock profits and free time mostly into real estate and a small business venture, but will get active selling PMs if you guys are right and it makes a new high before i croak.

    Will you be dumping the real estate in a hurry if it skyrockets and upsets the portfolio balance? Same question for the small business venture, if it becomes wildly successful?

    I'm chiding you on a bit, to see if your attitude about the metals is somehow treated differently. Metals probably should be treated differently in all fairness, because metals are in fact a different asset class.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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