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Why do dealers do this......
Coins911
Posts: 538
So I’ve noticed at coins show a common interaction with dealers it goes like this....
I ask to look at a PCGS certified coin. (Note it has a grade listed on the holder)
They hand it to me.
I look at it.
I decide I like it depending on the price
I hand the coin back to the dealer and ask the price.
The dealer then proceeds to look at the coin in depth maybe with a loupe. Hims and Haws a little and then gives me a price.
Here is the question. Why do dealers do this? Have they forgot what the coin that been in their inventory looks like? Is it show? I have never understood why they need to inspect the coin so closely to give me their asking price?
I ask to look at a PCGS certified coin. (Note it has a grade listed on the holder)
They hand it to me.
I look at it.
I decide I like it depending on the price
I hand the coin back to the dealer and ask the price.
The dealer then proceeds to look at the coin in depth maybe with a loupe. Hims and Haws a little and then gives me a price.
Here is the question. Why do dealers do this? Have they forgot what the coin that been in their inventory looks like? Is it show? I have never understood why they need to inspect the coin so closely to give me their asking price?
0
Comments
TRUTH
<< <i>Ask the price first, then look at the coin. All your troubles will go away. >>
THIS!
Maybe you found something they didn't recognize? And so they scan it over to verify it's not an unlabeled DDO/R. I see nothing wrong with such behavior. As truthteller says, ask the price first and then look at the coin.
EAC 6024
They may be looking to see if they missed something or if they are getting cherry-picked. Their codes may tell them what they paid for the coin or what they graded it, but they may be assessing whether they agree with the grade and/or how nice the coin is for the grade and how close to the listed price the coin should be. They may be assuming that you might actually want their opinion on the coin. Or, they may be buying time and assessing you! All of these actions are normal and good IMO.
I would be more concerned with a dealer that did not look at the coin I wanted to buy than one that did.
Tom
<< <i>Why do dealers do this...... >>
Simple paranoia afraid they’re getting taken.
If I was set up and had say a pile of common date MS65 Morgans for sale, I probably wouldn't remember the quality of each piece. When someone asks for a price it behooves the
seller not to let a PQ or higher end piece go too cheap. And on the other side, they won't want to price a low end piece too dear if they really want to see it gone.
roadrunner
What's my cost and what's market value?
Do I like it and don't mind holding onto it a while longer?
Do I want it to go away?
The jewelry security alliance trains dealers to do this in order to prevent slight of hand cons.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
This is one reason I tend to prefer dealers with marked prices. Fair or unfair, I believe a majority of bourse dealers without marked prices are sizing customers up based on appearance. When this happens I often get a quote that might be 20% above what they might charge someone with a different look. Age, dress, ethnic background, weight, tone of voice, are all factors in the sizing up process. If any dealer does quote me a price that I think is 20% or more above fair retail market price for a given coin for the given quality level, I will only glance that dealer's inventory at subsequent shows. Once in a while I have taken the hook because I am not that familiar with the pricing for some items and later regret paying too much for average coins.
/edit to add: as to why, if my theory is correct, it is because more than a few dealers make good money by sizing up customers and getting an occasional fish to bite.
<< <i>So I’ve noticed at coins show a common interaction with dealers it goes like this....
I ask to look at a PCGS certified coin. (Note it has a grade listed on the holder)
They hand it to me.
I look at it.
I decide I like it depending on the price
I hand the coin back to the dealer and ask the price.
The dealer then proceeds to look at the coin in depth maybe with a loupe. Hims and Haws a little and then gives me a price.
Here is the question. Why do dealers do this? Have they forgot what the coin that been in their inventory looks like? Is it show? I have never understood why they need to inspect the coin so closely to give me their asking price? >>
Happens to me alot too. Then the dealer proceeds to give me "a story" about how "this coin" in particular is so very PQ and well worth a premium. Really?, "the one" I picked out and asked to see?? Keep in mind most dealers have a good number of coins in their cases and I just happen to have the "good eye" to be able to pick out the PQ one. Uh-Huh.
Actually, no matter what coin I would have asked a price for would have brought on the same line of crap no doubt, as I usually am very selective in my purchases.
Without any doubt I have learned first hand there is a huge amount of insecurity with many dealers too. The ones who do really do not know as much about coins are the ones who can't just read codes off the back and quote a price. They are too paranoid about missing a dollar. I think its lame when they act like this.
As others have mentioned, I believe they look at the codes to make sure that the pricing on the coin is correct. I've never gotten a song and dance re how PQ the coin is, etc.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>Without any doubt I have learned first hand there is a huge amount of insecurity with many dealers too. The ones who do really do not know as much about coins are the ones who can't just read codes off the back and quote a price. They are too paranoid about missing a dollar. I think its lame when they act like this. >>
Unfortunately I agree with this observation even from a dealer's viewpoint. This behavior trait is an offspring of the neurotic personality nature a lot of people involved in numismatics either as sellers or collectors share.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>I've never gotten a song and dance re how PQ the coin is, etc. >>
That is highly unusual you haven't experienced that at some time. It happens all the time even between dealer transactions.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>Ask the price first, then look at the coin. All your troubles will go away.
TRUTH >>
Great advice!
<< <i>They look at the coin and then in their price guide to see how they can RIP you off >>
That generalization is WAY over the top cynical. Many dealers look out for their clients and filter out the bad stuff. When I was kid collector a couple of dealers took me under their wing and taught me the ropes about the characteristics of a good coin and not so good. The late Steve Tanenbaum was a master at working with the collectors to whom he had sold tokens and medals. He knew to whom he had sold the good material and helped them buy and sell their collections over time to the benefit of both buyers and sellers.
There are exceptions, but most rip-off artists don’t survive in this business for very long. And by in large the guys who are not knowledgeable don’t last very either.
<< <i>
<< <i>
There are exceptions, but most rip-off artists don’t survive in this business for very long. And by in large the guys who are not knowledgeable don’t last very long either. >>
This is a very good statement
<< <i>
<< <i>
There are exceptions, but most rip-off artists don’t survive in this business for very long. And by in large the guys who are not knowledgeable don’t last very long either. >>
This is a very good statement >>
It depends on how folks define the term. While not criminal, a fair many dealers push the envelope with pricing both on the buy and sell side. Flip through any coin magazine and a good percentage of the big ads are from dealers that don't have the best reputation, and many have been in business for decades. On the bourse there are only a handful of dealers that I tend to do consistent business with, and a good many that I avoid.
Whatever the venue, the magazine ads, the bourse dealers, the local shops, a fair number of dealers are far from the ideal as far as ethics. Those that do business in person often size up their customers and price accordingly. On the forum, I tend to defend dealers, and tend to criticize collectors as being unrealistic concerning so-called rip off stories. So I am not a fan of calling average coin dealer behavior a rip off, but it certainly does grate many collectors. There are the low ball bids when collectors try to sell, the extra high quote if the potential buyer is sized up as a potential mark to the selling dealer. the marginal coins hawked by the magazine ads, all give coin dealers a reputation. Is it deserved? Part yes because some of the behavior is clearly out of bounds. Part is exaggeration by forum story tellers, part is unrealistic expectations by the collectors.
Yes, there are some bad actors who regularly go to the shows, and I almost always avoid them. BUT I can tell you from experience, if they are hard up cash, sometimes you can even make a deal with them. Most of the national dealers who have been on show circuit for a long time are basically honest. You can complain about their mark-ups, but I can tell you from experience that it’s hard to survive on 10% mark-ups. A business has to make a return on its investment to survive.
<< <i>I'll grant you that I would have nothing to do with most of the guys who run the big ads in the coin magazines and newspapers. It's interesting to note that when one of these guys takes a table or booth at a major show, and they don't do it very often, they are there to buy. They don't sell much because most of their stuff is over graded, over priced and often raw. >>
One additional reason these dealers don't sell much at shows, and perhaps the most important one, is that their target customers may not go to shows.