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Why do dealers do this......

So I’ve noticed at coins show a common interaction with dealers it goes like this....

I ask to look at a PCGS certified coin. (Note it has a grade listed on the holder)

They hand it to me.

I look at it.

I decide I like it depending on the price

I hand the coin back to the dealer and ask the price.

The dealer then proceeds to look at the coin in depth maybe with a loupe. Hims and Haws a little and then gives me a price.

Here is the question. Why do dealers do this? Have they forgot what the coin that been in their inventory looks like? Is it show? I have never understood why they need to inspect the coin so closely to give me their asking price?

Comments

  • truthtellertruthteller Posts: 1,240 ✭✭
    Ask the price first, then look at the coin. All your troubles will go away.



    TRUTH
  • deviousdevious Posts: 1,690


    << <i>Ask the price first, then look at the coin. All your troubles will go away. >>



    THIS!

    Maybe you found something they didn't recognize? And so they scan it over to verify it's not an unlabeled DDO/R. I see nothing wrong with such behavior. As truthteller says, ask the price first and then look at the coin. image
  • MoldnutMoldnut Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭✭
    Because when your buying, they are going to tell you how great the coin is. When you selling, they are going to point out every mark on the coin, even if its in a MS61 holder. Hmmm, thats why its in a 61 holder.image Ive seen this often.
    Derek

    EAC 6024
  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lots of good reasons.

    They may be looking to see if they missed something or if they are getting cherry-picked. Their codes may tell them what they paid for the coin or what they graded it, but they may be assessing whether they agree with the grade and/or how nice the coin is for the grade and how close to the listed price the coin should be. They may be assuming that you might actually want their opinion on the coin. Or, they may be buying time and assessing you! All of these actions are normal and good IMO.

    I would be more concerned with a dealer that did not look at the coin I wanted to buy than one that did.

    Tom

  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Why do dealers do this...... >>



    Simple paranoia afraid they’re getting taken.image

    image
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,431 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As a collector you probably know everything that's great and everything that's not so great with every coin in your collection. You have memorzied down to the smallest detail the surfaces on every coin you have or at least every nice or important coin you have. When you are dealer you don't put all of that in your mind because if you are good at your job, you are turning over your inventory on a regular basis. Most dealers know less about the coins in their inventory at a given time than you know about your collection. So they often need to review what they are selling.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot of dealers are either not well-prepared for shows or just sort of lazy or pushed for time in updating inventory prices before the show. If that's the case, it often requires refreshing their memory on the coin (it could have spent the last few months in the vault) and then determining a price when the first customer asks. You'll probably see this a lot more with vest-pocket dealers are even dealer-collectors who might only do a show every month, or a couple each year. By the time the 2nd person asks, they won't need to reassess the coin. image

    If I was set up and had say a pile of common date MS65 Morgans for sale, I probably wouldn't remember the quality of each piece. When someone asks for a price it behooves the
    seller not to let a PQ or higher end piece go too cheap. And on the other side, they won't want to price a low end piece too dear if they really want to see it gone.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • cucamongacoincucamongacoin Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭
    What they said. Basically boils down to;
    What's my cost and what's market value?
    Do I like it and don't mind holding onto it a while longer?
    Do I want it to go away?
    <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.ebay.com/sch/cucamo...?_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc="> MY EBAY
  • GreeniejrGreeniejr Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭
    It is probably in your best interest for them to look at the coin like that. If they don't, it is either a newp and you will have to pay strong for it, or it is a maxed out coin they know is a POS. I will look at a coin again to reconfirm that the coin is of the quality I thought it was when I bought it. Some times I look at it and regret buying it. At that point I will sell it for a modest profit or even a loss.
  • I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the pratice its just seems as common as finding a dealer with a mustard stain on his shirt....Its a joke...Dealer don't take that one personally
  • It is actually a very good practice for coin/jewelry dealers to inspect the item before handing it to someone and then again before receiving it back.

    The jewelry security alliance trains dealers to do this in order to prevent slight of hand cons.
  • pmacpmac Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭
    Maybe old habits are hard to break or they are trying to figure how much $ you have in your pocket.
    Paul
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is normal and I can understand why they look at the coin again. Now, when you ask for price and they look at the coin, stare at you, look you up and down basically sizing you up. You are either in for a story, or "something" elseimage or both.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The title of this thread should be "Why collectors drink.--XXXVII".image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • RedTigerRedTiger Posts: 5,608
    A couple of things might be going on. The dealer might be taking time to think about how big a fish they have on the line and price accordingly. The potential buyer might be a known variety searcher via the grapevine and the dealer is double checking for varieties. The already mentioned, straight story, that the dealer is looking at the coin to determine its quality or checking the price code on the back.

    This is one reason I tend to prefer dealers with marked prices. Fair or unfair, I believe a majority of bourse dealers without marked prices are sizing customers up based on appearance. When this happens I often get a quote that might be 20% above what they might charge someone with a different look. Age, dress, ethnic background, weight, tone of voice, are all factors in the sizing up process. If any dealer does quote me a price that I think is 20% or more above fair retail market price for a given coin for the given quality level, I will only glance that dealer's inventory at subsequent shows. Once in a while I have taken the hook because I am not that familiar with the pricing for some items and later regret paying too much for average coins.

    /edit to add: as to why, if my theory is correct, it is because more than a few dealers make good money by sizing up customers and getting an occasional fish to bite.

  • COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭
    There wondering if you will ever notice the PVC spot?
  • They look at the coin and then in their price guide to see how they can RIP you off
  • LeeBoneLeeBone Posts: 4,294 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So I’ve noticed at coins show a common interaction with dealers it goes like this....

    I ask to look at a PCGS certified coin. (Note it has a grade listed on the holder)

    They hand it to me.

    I look at it.

    I decide I like it depending on the price

    I hand the coin back to the dealer and ask the price.

    The dealer then proceeds to look at the coin in depth maybe with a loupe. Hims and Haws a little and then gives me a price.

    Here is the question. Why do dealers do this? Have they forgot what the coin that been in their inventory looks like? Is it show? I have never understood why they need to inspect the coin so closely to give me their asking price? >>



    Happens to me alot too. Then the dealer proceeds to give me "a story" about how "this coin" in particular is so very PQ and well worth a premium. Really?, "the one" I picked out and asked to see?? Keep in mind most dealers have a good number of coins in their cases and I just happen to have the "good eye" to be able to pick out the PQ one. Uh-Huh.

    Actually, no matter what coin I would have asked a price for would have brought on the same line of crap no doubt, as I usually am very selective in my purchases.
  • DaveEDaveE Posts: 367
    Some times the dealer is double checking everything is ok with what they quoted.

    Without any doubt I have learned first hand there is a huge amount of insecurity with many dealers too. The ones who do really do not know as much about coins are the ones who can't just read codes off the back and quote a price. They are too paranoid about missing a dollar. I think its lame when they act like this.
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If I like a coin, I ask for a best price, and tell the dealer I'll either pass or play. The typical response is "I can give it to your for X." At that point, I tell the dealer that I'm interested, I'd like to have a friend look at it, and I'll get back to him shortly.

    As others have mentioned, I believe they look at the codes to make sure that the pricing on the coin is correct. I've never gotten a song and dance re how PQ the coin is, etc.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • Mission16Mission16 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭
    Classic stalling tactic. Gives seller time to think about what to ask as a price without standing there staring at you. Works in all genres.
  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭
    Because the value is determined by what the coin looks like, not the grade on a slab.
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Without any doubt I have learned first hand there is a huge amount of insecurity with many dealers too. The ones who do really do not know as much about coins are the ones who can't just read codes off the back and quote a price. They are too paranoid about missing a dollar. I think its lame when they act like this. >>



    Unfortunately I agree with this observation even from a dealer's viewpoint. This behavior trait is an offspring of the neurotic personality nature a lot of people involved in numismatics either as sellers or collectors share.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I've never gotten a song and dance re how PQ the coin is, etc. >>



    That is highly unusual you haven't experienced that at some time. It happens all the time even between dealer transactions.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ask the price first, then look at the coin. All your troubles will go away.



    TRUTH >>

    Great advice!
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    I like marked prices.
    Ed
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭
    It happens to me too when I am scouting out stuff in other dealers' cases at shows. No idea why.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Relax and go with the flow.... just part of the process.... Cheers, RickO
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,431 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>They look at the coin and then in their price guide to see how they can RIP you off >>



    That generalization is WAY over the top cynical. Many dealers look out for their clients and filter out the bad stuff. When I was kid collector a couple of dealers took me under their wing and taught me the ropes about the characteristics of a good coin and not so good. The late Steve Tanenbaum was a master at working with the collectors to whom he had sold tokens and medals. He knew to whom he had sold the good material and helped them buy and sell their collections over time to the benefit of both buyers and sellers.

    There are exceptions, but most rip-off artists don’t survive in this business for very long. And by in large the guys who are not knowledgeable don’t last very either.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623


    << <i>

    << <i>
    There are exceptions, but most rip-off artists don’t survive in this business for very long. And by in large the guys who are not knowledgeable don’t last very long either. >>



    This is a very good statement
  • RedTigerRedTiger Posts: 5,608


    << <i>

    << <i>
    There are exceptions, but most rip-off artists don’t survive in this business for very long. And by in large the guys who are not knowledgeable don’t last very long either. >>



    This is a very good statement >>



    It depends on how folks define the term. While not criminal, a fair many dealers push the envelope with pricing both on the buy and sell side. Flip through any coin magazine and a good percentage of the big ads are from dealers that don't have the best reputation, and many have been in business for decades. On the bourse there are only a handful of dealers that I tend to do consistent business with, and a good many that I avoid.

    Whatever the venue, the magazine ads, the bourse dealers, the local shops, a fair number of dealers are far from the ideal as far as ethics. Those that do business in person often size up their customers and price accordingly. On the forum, I tend to defend dealers, and tend to criticize collectors as being unrealistic concerning so-called rip off stories. So I am not a fan of calling average coin dealer behavior a rip off, but it certainly does grate many collectors. There are the low ball bids when collectors try to sell, the extra high quote if the potential buyer is sized up as a potential mark to the selling dealer. the marginal coins hawked by the magazine ads, all give coin dealers a reputation. Is it deserved? Part yes because some of the behavior is clearly out of bounds. Part is exaggeration by forum story tellers, part is unrealistic expectations by the collectors.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,431 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll grant you that I would have nothing to do with most of the guys who run the big ads in the coin magazines and newspapers. It's interesting to note that when one of these guys takes a table or booth at a major show, and they don't do it very often, they are there to buy. They don't sell much because most of their stuff is over graded, over priced and often raw.

    Yes, there are some bad actors who regularly go to the shows, and I almost always avoid them. BUT I can tell you from experience, if they are hard up cash, sometimes you can even make a deal with them. Most of the national dealers who have been on show circuit for a long time are basically honest. You can complain about their mark-ups, but I can tell you from experience that it’s hard to survive on 10% mark-ups. A business has to make a return on its investment to survive.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'll grant you that I would have nothing to do with most of the guys who run the big ads in the coin magazines and newspapers. It's interesting to note that when one of these guys takes a table or booth at a major show, and they don't do it very often, they are there to buy. They don't sell much because most of their stuff is over graded, over priced and often raw. >>

    One additional reason these dealers don't sell much at shows, and perhaps the most important one, is that their target customers may not go to shows.
  • Don't you also look at your coins before you decide to sell ?

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