The 2009 UHR Coin -- As a Single Year Issue Type Coin?

MsMorrisine · November 8, 2010 2:31PM

It's not the only $20 gold US coin.

It's not the only Ultra High Releif gold US coin.

It is the only .9999 Fine $20 Ultra High Relief Gold US Coin, or the only .9999 Fine $20 Gold US Coin if you like.

Are people collecting these as a one year only type US coin?

Baley · November 8, 2010 4:22PM

Yes.

PerryHall · November 8, 2010 7:16PM

Not every type collector will buy one but I'm glad I got one when they first came out. Yes, they are a single year type coin due to the UHR design on a small diameter double thick planchet.

ricko · November 8, 2010 9:55PM

Yes. Cheers, RickO

Obiwancanoli · November 8, 2010 11:12PM

I'm AMAZED at the values these have grown too... check THIS out...

I have one FS 70, the other is raw, but am thinking I'd like to have the other (non-FS) graded...

HardCase · November 8, 2010 11:20PM

<< I'm AMAZED at the values these have grown too... check THIS out...

I have one FS 70, the other is raw, but am thinking I'd like to have the other (non-FS) graded...

>>

Ouch! Over $3400! What is a raw one in the mint box selling for these days?

Zoins · November 9, 2010 12:31AM

<< 

<< I'm AMAZED at the values these have grown too... check THIS out...

I have one FS 70, the other is raw, but am thinking I'd like to have the other (non-FS) graded...

>>

Ouch! Over $3400! What is a raw one in the mint box selling for these days? >>

$1,850 seems to be the going rate on the bay.

don129 · November 9, 2010 12:33AM

Mines graded PCGS MS70 First Strike as well. This is GOOD NEWS!

)

kimber45ACP · November 9, 2010 1:09AM

pf70collector · November 9, 2010 1:22AM

One raw( definitely a 69) and one graded PCGS MS 70 (which I bought on the last day of sale at the mint).

MAT1 · November 9, 2010 1:51AM

Yes - I also think it should be classify in the Gold Coins or Modern Gold Commemorative category. Either one is fine the UHR is not a bullion coin.

TomB · November 9, 2010 1:54AM

I consider them a one year type coin.

57loaded · November 9, 2010 1:57AM

my foresight was not too good on this one or a few other things gold...wow!

saintguru · November 9, 2010 1:58AM

One could make a case that it was a type of commemorative as well. NO?

RWB · November 9, 2010 2:08AM

With that approach, you'll need one of every commemorative and bullion coin .. a hugely expensive undertaking.

You can form a "type set" by what ever criteria you wish....most stick to coin that actually circulate.

wondercoin · November 9, 2010 2:12AM

The raw/MS69 UHR now trades at roughly the same premium over gold spot as it did when it was on sale at the Mint throughout 2009. Of course, MS70 grade coins have outperformed the raw and MS69 coins to this point (especially MS70FS examples), not to mention the strength in "PL" designated coins over at NGC. PCGS chose not to designate the coins "PL".

I am in the process of completing my research on the UHR for an article. I hope to have it written before the end of the year.

Wondercoin

messydesk · November 9, 2010 2:26AM

It's a bit of a white elephant. It's the weight and fineness of a bullion coin but doesn't bear such inscriptions as a bullion coin would, is a tribute to the original design more than a commemorative of it. Of course, one could consider it a mint-produced pattern fantasy restrike of J-1917/P-2007, too. I guess I'd call it a commemorative more than anything else for now. While it would be nice to see it continued as a series, it would also be nice to see if they could execute original designs worthy of being made into an ultra-high relief $20 gold commemorative going forward, be it a Congressionally mandated commemorative or a medal. Nevertheless, I'm glad I bought one.

Spiff · March 10, 2011 12:35PM

It amazes me that people didn't see this as a high end highly valuble coin for the future!! Does the past teach you nothing???!!!

nutmeg · March 10, 2011 12:51PM

<< It amazes me that people didn't see this as a high end highly valuble coin for the future!! Does the past teach you nothing???!!! >>

At the time I saw some upside to it. The problem is that I only bought one. There were two reasons for that, not including the $1,300 cost. First, the box from the mint was just left on my doorstep which was kind of stupid. Second is the box itself. Big honking wooden box which means nothing to me.
The coin quality is beautiful and probably one of the best things the mint has made recently.

gsa1fan · March 10, 2011 1:06PM

Yes, my favorite gold coin!

veryfine · March 10, 2011 1:44PM

Yes, I would consider it a single year type coin for sure.

As a side note, although I love the coin, I do not like the absurdly insignificant nuances that define a 68, 69 and 70. To lay such great emphasis on minute imperfections pertaining to a "non-circulating" mint product is odd to me. Of course my opinion holds little weight, as there are plenty of buyers who actually do care.

RegistryCoin · March 10, 2011 2:49PM

Yes, one year type, and one extremely cool coin!

wondercoin · March 10, 2011 3:25PM

"I am in the process of completing my research on the UHR for an article. I hope to have it written before the end of the year."

I actually did write that article ... just never published it. Maybe sometime in the next year.

Registrycoin ... I could not agree with you more!

Wondercoin

Baley · March 10, 2011 4:10PM

With that approach, you'll need one of every commemorative and bullion coin .. a hugely expensive undertaking.

I'm glad you follow it with,

You can form a "type set" by what ever criteria you wish....most stick to coin that actually circulate.

or maybe add a few modern NCLT representatives, such as proof and unc ASEs, a denomination/weight set of AGE's, a representative platinum coin, a buffalo coin, an UHR, a representative spouse coin of one of the coin designs perhaps, one of the big 5oz silver park coasters.

Don't have to get every one. Especially not the dumb looking or ugly ones, just because a set includes them.

IMO the UHR has it all, an ounce of gold, pure gold, beautiful classic design, super nice orig. gov't pkg, one year (so far) mintage

I regret not purchasing more of them that year

rodzm · March 10, 2011 5:38PM

FWIW PCGS has a lready graded a few PL and I believe 3 MS70 First Strike PL

scottgardener · March 10, 2011 8:04PM

Here is a more radical interpretation; in some ways I see it as a continuation of the Saint Gaudens double eagle. Yes, its fineness and size are different, but so are the early 1907 proofs. Yes, there is a huge gap between 1933 and 2010, but other coins have resurfaced after noticable time gaps. And, don't get us started on what was or was not meant to circulate.... It's admittedly a stretch, but I feel a case can be made.

Otherwise, it's pretty much its own thing.

PerryHall · March 10, 2011 9:33PM

<< 

<< It amazes me that people didn't see this as a high end highly valuble coin for the future!! Does the past teach you nothing???!!! >>

At the time I saw some upside to it. The problem is that I only bought one. There were two reasons for that, not including the $1,300 cost. First, the box from the mint was just left on my doorstep which was kind of stupid. Second is the box itself. Big honking wooden box which means nothing to me.
The coin quality is beautiful and probably one of the best things the mint has made recently. >>

Agree. The packaging was overkill for such a small coin. Does the mint think coin collectors have unlimited storage space?

ponderit · March 10, 2011 9:57PM

<< 

<< 

<< It amazes me that people didn't see this as a high end highly valuble coin for the future!! Does the past teach you nothing???!!! >>

At the time I saw some upside to it. The problem is that I only bought one. There were two reasons for that, not including the $1,300 cost. First, the box from the mint was just left on my doorstep which was kind of stupid. Second is the box itself. Big honking wooden box which means nothing to me.
The coin quality is beautiful and probably one of the best things the mint has made recently. >>

Agree. The packaging was overkill for such a small coin. Does the mint think coin collectors have unlimited storage space? >>

What, you mean the rest of you guys don't have a safe?

GritsMan · March 10, 2011 11:14PM

I like the comment that it is kind of a "fantasy coin". I would not consider it a type coin entry, more of a commemorative. I think many people were seriously put off by the high mintage, which bothered me, too. The coin, though, is just stunning, and I'm glad I bought one even if it never appreciates beyond the current spread. It's one of those rare new issues for which it's just fun to take it out and look at it. THAT is the mark of a successful coin!

Wondercoin, can you post that article somewhere? I'd love to read it!

ambro51 · March 10, 2011 11:19PM

I think one of the factors that will always hold these modern recreations at an arms distance from any numismatic 'home run' is that there will NEVER be a wear factor. Grade is not important...and the only other factor is how many will reach the melt pot.

all in all.....this piece I think was a huge flash in the pan.

Maybe in 50 years or so...................................................................................................................................................................

Raufus · March 10, 2011 11:20PM

And the government, so desperate for more money to spend is melting tens of thousands which would bring millions in profits instead of having a last chance sale. How utterly stupid.

Raufus · March 10, 2011 11:23PM

<< FWIW PCGS has a lready graded a few PL and I believe 3 MS70 First Strike PL >>

I wonder whether they'll almost all get pl like the atbs.

GritsMan · March 10, 2011 11:29PM

<< I think one of the factors that will always hold these modern recreations at an arms distance from any numismatic 'home run' is that there will NEVER be a wear factor. Grade is not important...and the only other factor is how many will reach the melt pot.

all in all.....this piece I think was a huge flash in the pan.
>>

The lack of wear is always going to be an issue that keeps modern commemoratives from being as interesting as older ones. I don't agree that this issue is a flash in the pan, though. I think the Mint was sincerely trying to reach as high as it is able--and largely succeeded. Until the oversight committees turn the Mint loose with new, innovative artists, this, the buffs, and the proof plats are about as good as we're going to get.

And Raufus, I agree that the melting is very wasteful, but I do think the Mint needs to protect buyers who took the plunge when it was offered. I'd be sorely disappointed if they suddenly offered the rest of these--or any other past issue--for sale. Or maybe I'd just be sore!

EagleEye · March 11, 2011 1:37AM

I don't think the UHR's fit into the commemorative category, or the bullion category. They are a one year type coin of the $20 denomination. although they are NCLT (you won't find them in circulation).

RWB · March 11, 2011 2:26AM

It's not a circulating coin -- just nice bullion.

Coinsponge · March 11, 2011 2:30AM

<< It's not a circulating coin -- just nice bullion. >>

You wouldn't happen to have one you would like to sell as bullion would you? I am looking for some nice bullion.

OPA · March 11, 2011 2:42AM

<< 

<< It's not a circulating coin -- just nice bullion. >>

You wouldn't happen to have one you would like to sell as bullion would you? I am looking for some nice bullion. >>

I'll pay spot +$100 for your "bullion"

My favorite Modern coin ... right up there with the other Moderns ... Reverse Proof AGE, APE & ASE's
( I have the above mentioned ones in PCGS 70 FS ... with no intention of ever selling them..gonna take them with me into the after life )

Coinsponge · March 11, 2011 2:46AM

I had 2 and sold them. I would sure like to have one back. I will go $200 over spot for the bullion coin. I saw that Wondercoin is selling a nice shiny one a little over spot.

Coinsponge · March 11, 2011 2:55AM

..gonna take them with me into the after life )

>>

No need to. I hear they pave the roads with them there.
(at least at one of the places)

Coinsponge · March 11, 2011 2:58AM

Wow, 3 posts in a row. Is that allowed? You guys are too slow in posting-especially RWB who I can't wait to purchase this bullion from at bullion prices of course.

PerryHall · March 11, 2011 3:02AM

<< And the government, so desperate for more money to spend is melting tens of thousands which would bring millions in profits instead of having a last chance sale. How utterly stupid. >>

They have an obligation to their customers that bought these coins during the ordering period. If they changed the rules after people already bought their coins, it would hurt future sales of similar products because many would no longer trust the mint. Also, because the price of gold has gone up since they were made, the mint will still be making a nice profit on their increased bullion value.

Coinsponge · March 11, 2011 3:05AM

...it would hurt future sales of similar products because many would no longer trust the mint.

Someone out there still trusts the Mint?

HKstrongside · March 11, 2011 3:13AM

This is one of my favorite coins. Mine is only a 69FS, but still fun to look at. I also enjoy looking at the booklet it came with. Some good info in there.

wondercoin · March 11, 2011 3:26AM

Coinsponge ... You are referring to ebay #320665248492 I assume? If so, yes it is VERY shiny! I believe the jury is still out though on exactly how much value above an NGC-MS70PL coin the PCGS-MS70PL will ultimately carry.

Wondercoin

PerryHall · March 11, 2011 3:37AM

<< ...it would hurt future sales of similar products because many would no longer trust the mint.

Someone out there still trusts the Mint? >>

I trust the mint to do what's in their best interest and melting these left overs is in their best long term interest.

wondercoin · March 11, 2011 3:38AM

"Wondercoin, can you post that article somewhere? I'd love to read it!"

Yes, I would like to do that later this year.

Wondercoin

Coinsponge · March 11, 2011 3:43AM

<< Coinsponge ... You are referring to ebay #320665248492 I assume? If so, yes it is VERY shiny! I believe the jury is still out though on exactly how much value above an NGC-MS70PL coin the PCGS-MS70PL will ultimately carry.

Wondercoin >>

Hard to say. The best way is to test the market and see as you are. You are sitting in a great place now on that one.

Coinsponge · March 11, 2011 3:46AM

<< 

<< ...it would hurt future sales of similar products because many would no longer trust the mint.

Someone out there still trusts the Mint? >>

I trust the mint to do what's in their best interest and melting these left overs is in their best long term interest. >>

But hasn't the Mint placed once-sold-out coins on the market before? They still have customers.

PerryHall · March 11, 2011 4:10AM

<< 

<< 

<< ...it would hurt future sales of similar products because many would no longer trust the mint.

Someone out there still trusts the Mint? >>

I trust the mint to do what's in their best interest and melting these left overs is in their best long term interest. >>

But hasn't the Mint placed once-sold-out coins on the market before? They still have customers. >>

The mint will always have customers but the number of customers will decrease every time they play games and screw their customers by selling them coins and then changing the terms of their offering after the fact.

291fifth · March 11, 2011 4:15AM

It is a one year NCLT type coin. If you like NCLT, include it. If you hate NCLT, ignore it.

Coinsponge · March 11, 2011 4:39AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< ...it would hurt future sales of similar products because many would no longer trust the mint.

Someone out there still trusts the Mint? >>

I trust the mint to do what's in their best interest and melting these left overs is in their best long term interest. >>

But hasn't the Mint placed once-sold-out coins on the market before? They still have customers. >>

The mint will always have customers but the number of customers will decrease every time they play games and screw their customers by selling them coins and then changing the terms of their offering after the fact. >>

But where else are ya gonna go for US coins? Even if you go secondary you are indirectly buying from them. 'Fraid they have a monopoly and I figure they know it.

The 2009 UHR Coin -- As a Single Year Issue Type Coin?

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